Some point, right around this time, probably a little more. Clinton and gore had their public split. Reagan and bush were never that tight. Nixon never had anything with any of his Vice President s, so this is unique. Its closer, longer term, friendlier, more respectful relationship. Host i want to pitch forward on this particular issue because of the potential tension between the Vice President and Hillary Rodham clinton over 2016. How has the president tried to manage that issue and that question . Guest well, its interesting. He enjoys he wants to give advice to joe bid bide how to do this if biden wants to do it. They dont talk about it as much as they had before. Theres in some ways the staff has taken advantage of what they assume is bidens at least interest level in it enough where some of the constituency groups that need the president there, they have the president is done with it. Biden is happy to do it. Some ways they allow him to have that. I think barack obama this one of his negative legacies he is leaving the Democratic Party as an infrastructurewise, in worst shape than he got there, and its amazing when you think about the infrastructure he was able to build for himself and never able to translate it to that. I think in his host you write he treated the Democratic National committee the way some of the bane companies treated their companies,. Guest load it up with debt. Host but use the ability to borrow mo. Guest lite inwith dote use the money for your campaign but they never invested in the Democratic National committee. They viewed themselves as so outside washington they were going to grow their own policy orient version. I to almost wanted to be their own political party. Host one of the cure use things about his presidency, the first democrat since roosevelt to win a majority, both times, twice, not just once, and yet he is seen as somebody who keeps the party at arms length, has not been a party builder, doesnt seem to care about the party. How do you guest that is what comes across, and thats how you want to knee why really he has problems with congressal democrat inside thats what they see. The white house will say but we show up to events and help them raise money for their entities. But they have had different versions of what is called ofa, obama for america when inwas for the president , and then organizing for america, and then organizing for action, but they always wanted to start their own entity that they believed they may be right, that the Obama Coalition is unique to obama, but reagan tried to the Reagan Coalition was unique to reagan, but it became a part of the Democratic Party excuse me the republican party. He used it to build the republican party. The big criticism here is he has never used it got better in 14 but a little late in the game. Early on that, almost sued the dnc as a toxic place. And part of it was they were the nonestablishment figure in the primary so the automatically assumed all washington institutions were clinton institutions and, therefore are theyre not going to help a clinton institution. I think that with some staffers that burned. That was burned deep in them. So, that i think was part of the motivation. Were not going to play the all those people that are members of the dnc, theyre clintonites. They didnt want to ticket over and didnt want to take ownership of it. So i know i got off on a tangent here. Goes back to 16. I do think it will be interesting with obama look, i think he would view the third term as total vindication and dent care if its Hillary Clinton or joe biden. I think he would be working harder for joe biden. I dont i think joe biden would be asking for more help. Hillary clinton isnt going to ask for help. She has to walk a balancing act and doesnt so, hell be as helpful to her as she wants. But i get this the sense there would be more of a personal ownership of biden as the nominee than there would be for hillary. Host one thing you say is one positive legacy of the president will be the way campaigns are run and won. Why is that . Guest well, he certainly is redefined if you met a campaign, republican or democrat, that isnt trying to emulate some form of the Obama Campaign from 2008 and 2012 . He has redefined the idea that, analytics are a huge part of this. You cant just rely on Television Advertising anymore. You have to have a wholistic view. You should make your technology be connected with everybody. Dont teen your tech book separate and dont be afraid to find people outside of the world of Political Consultants to find the experts. In that respect it made the entire industry rethink itself. And you saw i dont care itself was a republican, conservative republican running in kansas or a liberal democrat running in california in each of those cases you had them using the obama template how to run a campaign. Host you say the president is frustrated by efforts to pin him somewhere on the ideological spectrum. How does he see himself . Guest i think he believes he is a progressive but he is a practicing ma pragmatist. I says bill clinton and barack obama, you give them ten issues, and you tell them theyll get to the same compromise but get there differently. So, whether its how they do their personal politics or w where they come from on. I think what bothers him he doesnt believe he is as liberal as his opponents think he is but this goes to the fact that his negotiating style has been sort of again, go book to this. Its very rational on one hand. This is the minimum im willing to do. And he lets people know right away, and the washington ims he doesnt mean thats the minimum. Thats his opening bid. And so that where is he has had some disconnect issues. Host you also write about a couple of different points in the book the issue of communications, and the difference between candidate obama and president obama and the power of speech, and his own frustration during his presidency at not being able to communicate more effectively. People think of him as a very effective communicator, remembering the campaign of 08 or 2012 but wares the disconnect and why was he frustrated. Guest he is frustrated because the campaign had a very simple premise, and its actually worked in both the reelect and the first one. When they ran into a problem, he gave a speech and it would fix it. And for the most part, when you were talking bat political campaign, that did work that way. The race speech. It worked that way in some ways. You look at framing the economy, the president ial speech about framing the campaign. So, Campaign Speeches worked for him. And it was would stop the bleeding on in political problem he was having. So i think he learned the wrong lesson, which is when he has run into a problem, give a speech and it just that hasnt worked. This is where i think i cant fully judge this. Are we living in an era where no president could manage the way our new media climate goes from crisis to crisis and forces the idea that a president has to respond to everything, whether theyre missing girls in nigeria or a bombing in sydney, australia 0, are plane shot down in ukraine, let alone an oil spill in this country where a central focus, where is obama . Wherees the president in and this way so,. Host your feeling guest i want to wait until the next president to see if theres a better searity. Dont know if this is a manageable media climate. Im open to the idea i think theyve been unique live not goodded at it. Theyre slow. As fast as they were to respond to things when there were crisises in the campaign, theyre more methodical now as president and as head of the government. Theres an arguement to be made that methodical is a good thing. You dont want to be rash. But i think that theyve never found that touch, like when to be immediately on top of something. And its funny. Watching them handle ebola. I think ebola they were very out front and tried to be as out front early on. Nobody noticed when they were out front early on, and then the ebola cases and they still took on water. Not a lot. The campaign year, made it worse. I think if it was a noncampaign environment for the most part, the infrastructure of washington would have said he handled ebola pretty well. Host your last sentence is this the way to get something done obama was saying, was to go it alone, just as to some extent he always had. Theres a certain poignancy. Guest i know. You think i dont consider myself an im still learning as a writer. Theres a lot better writers, people who have written about obama. But that is the lesson he has taken from his presidency. That he cant make washington work collectively. He thinks its washington fundmental flaw. I dont think he believes theres much he could have done differently to change that. I argue differently, obviously, in a lot of this book, but look at how he is going about climbed climate change, immigration. Hes going leave office with neither problem fully solved, but he wants to make progress and the acknowledge way he knows how to do it is to go it alone. Host chuck, congratulations. Thank you for sharing. Guest thank you. Booktv and primetime continues friday with books by 2016 president ial candidates. At 8 00 p. M. , former arkansas governor mike mike huckabee, discusses boy god, guts, grits and gravy. His look at american culture. At 9 00 p. M. , dr. Ben carson on one nation, what we can do to save americas future. At 10 00 p. M. , senator marco rubio on american dreams, restoring Economic Opportunity for everyone. And at 10 25, Hillary Clinton on her enemy memoir, hard choices. Book biz president ial candidate on cspan. On the next washington journal, New York Times healthcare correspond marge got sangercast joins us, talking about whether the expansion of Health Insurance actually cults healthcare costs. Then sharon ebberson of cnbc on the 80th anniversary of Social Security and what the future holdings for the program. Later a conversation on the u. S. Foster care system, with the director of policy reform ands a row advocacy of the annie e. Casey foundation. Washington gorgeous each morning on cspan. Cspan is in des moines for the iowa state fair and road to the white house coverage of president ial candidates. Our live coverage is on cspan, cspan radio, and cspan. Org, as the candidates walk the fairgrounds and speak at the Des Moines Register soap box. Heres the schedule, friday morning, jeb bush jeb, starting at noon on saturday, republican Rick Santorum at noon, filed by democrats lincoln chef fee achieve tee, and the bernie sanders. Cspans campaign 2016. Taking you on the road to the white house. This sunday night on q a, institute for policy studies fellow and antiwar activist, phyllis ben net on the war on terrorism. Who i isis . Why are that so i zoo so violent . I think what is more important in some ways, because its something we can do something about, is what is u. S. Policy regarding isis . Why isnt it working . The welcome go war against terror jim . Are we just doing the record wrong or wrong to say there choo she a war against terrorism at snail think those are the questions that in some ways are the most important and that will be the most useful. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern and pacific, on cspan2s q a. Next our booktv programming looking at the white house, features white house course respondent april ryan. Its about an hour. Jojo april ryan, dont think anyone, any africanamerican reporter, has covered the white house as long as you have, and now you have taken the clinton, bush 43 and obama years and written about them through the prism that is important to your listeners and that is the issue of Race Relations in the united states, and i have to ask you, when you first arrived at the white house in 1997 guest yes. Host did you imagine that you ever bely to cover the first africanamerican president . Guest never, and never. Just saying that im getting chills as you said that. In my home, we have pictures of john kennedy host this is growing up. Guest yes in baltimore. Pictures of john kennedy and Martin Luther king, and we have seen unsuccessful attempts by africanamericans to become president. And ive heard from many people right now in this town who may not want to say that theyve said this but said president obama had a special kind of juice and must have because so many years we thought a white woman would get the position first before a black man, and to be able to say that ive covered the first black president is just amazing. Host timing is everything in life, and you actually, i think, first met him hundred he was senator. You were covering the white house . Guest yes. Host what happened. Guest during the bush years. Theres a thing called stakeout, and we all all the reporters gather outside after the meetings with the president or principles and they come outside of the west wing door, the front entrance of the west wing, and they stand at a bank of microphones and at this time it happened to be the Congressional Black Caucus that has judd obtain the newest member, senator barack obama from chicago. And everyone was looking for senator obama. And i couldnt see him. And i was so excited about trying to get an interview with him. And at that time, it was interesting because i kept remembering, where is he . What is his name . How to say his name. At that time he was new. I think i transposed his name and he said well, i said, where is i dont even remember what i called him him said, first of all get my name right. And i was so excited to see him. He was the rock star in chief. This is not about me personally. This was about me as a report trying to get to him before anyone else, and that is the thing in this business. You want to be the first with the most, and way was so excited to get to the new rock star on the hill that i couldnt get his name right. It was a mess. Host he wasnt you write in the book he was not particularly popular within the Congressional Black Caucus help was a senator, all the rest of them are house members. Did they resent this newcomer. Guest they did. He was an enigma. Someone who had tried unsuccessfully for congressional seat against one of their fellow members, and theyre very loyal to one another in that group, and because they are a small group on the hill and theyre very loyal to one another, so that was one strike against him. The second strike was he was a senator. He was a black senator, something that rarely happens in this country. And he also was on a different schedule than the house. The senate and he house on different schedules. So when the Congressional Black Caucus, which is mostly house members would meet, it was not on his time, so she asked to be placed in the front part of the meeting and many times they ignored him. And he was left to leave the meeting without presenting anything. And it was a lot of hard feelings there. Host do you think that talking about your time covering the white house can you talk a little bit about how you explain in the book how you were treated as not only an africanamerican as a black reporter but a woman reporter. Still not a lot of women in the press corps. Lets start with those that first year when bill clintons second term and you arrive at the white house to cover there sitting in the Briefing Room every single day. Guest it was rough because i replaced the first africanamerican to become the president of the White House Press corps, bob ellis union, whose shoe0s hard to fill. When came to the white house, many people resented the fact it was bob there anymore. And i can understand that. He worked with so many of the veterans there. Also i think coming in and really pressing on urban and africanamerican issues, which clearly wasnt done that much, as much as i had. It rubbed people the wrong way. That wasnt on the agenda on a consistent basis, on a daily basis, and many people were wondering, is she militant . Who is she . What is she . We havent seen her around washington. So he is a strange kid. And i felt a little bit of that and got a lot of pushback from within, from within the press corps. People were very by being such a new by nuby, not being in washington, coming straight out of baltimore, there was a lot of pushback and people were, how did she get into this interviews with president clinton . How is she doing this and the ills not in the pool. I got a lot of pushback. Host whats break it down into three categories because you right about your interactions with other reporters and your interactions with president s, but of course, press secretaries, too. Talk about a couple of those moments. Start under the bush admission, tony snow was a new the new press secretary. What happened with the tar baby comment . Guest my gosh. The first day. The first dame he came into the press briefing. He was rock star the chief. So many were there there i couldnt get in any seat. Typically when youre in the white house in briefing area, youre downstairs doing your work and you have your designated seat ask and you think you can wait until the last minute. That wasnt the case. To my surprise when i came upstairs, every seat was taken. It was standing room only. So i was on the right side of the Briefing Room against the wall. And there was a question posed to him by abc, and he was explaining what was going on, and then he said, im not going to held or touch that tar baby, and i kind of shrinked because that is something thats something that host that phrase. Guest that phrase was very sensitive. Its racially insensitive, and host from an old brer rabbit story. Guest and i actually have that book just to remember. Just to remember that this is what used to be. But it should not be. And i couldnt believe it. And when you think of you think that, the tar that the ran pit buts together so the fox wouldnt find the rabbit. And i said, okay. So then unfortunately, there was a reporter standing in front of me who turned to me and said, shut up, you tar baby. And i couldnt believe it. After the press briefing, that first press briefing, marched up to tony snows office and said do you realize what you did . He apologizedded and from that moment on we struck up a really good relationship, and he really apologized for his insensitivity. He didnt realize how insensitive it was and it would spark, and at the credit of the white house correspondents association, i talked to mark smith, the president at that time, and he addressed the issue, and i got an apology. But people really dont understand host an apology from guest from the reporter who did that. And people really dont understand how much whatever happens at that podium can reverberate in the room or outside. There are so many ripple that go beyond that room, and it really affected me that day. Host the press briefing, you and i have covered the white house together for many years when i was with abc, and the pre briefings were offcamera until about the time you came. Mike mccurrie was the secondterm Clinton Press secretary, which agreed to do it on camera, something i know you quote him as now regretting, and i tend to agree with mike that the press briefings are supposed to be the raw ingredients of news, not an event themselves. But you had a dustup with dustup is not the right word which struck me because i was there for it not just because not because you were an africanamerican reporter but maybe because you were a woman and that with with robert gibbs. Guest yes. I think you might be right about the woman issue, the gender, could be a little race and could be because im specialty media. Host tell us what happened guest it comes with this. The issue is the fact im not part of the mainstream north part of the first and second row. Im specialty media that focuses on urban and minority america, so how dare she. Thats the way i felt at that time. How dare she ask these questions . They were relevant questions. They were questions i was hearing from my sources inside and from outside of the white house, it was not a personality issue. It was a real issue. But inare unfortunately what the cameras saw was the last day. They didnt people were watching was the last day. They didnt seal the two days, the culmination of two days that crescendos into the moment. Host after a couple apparently crashed the first obama state dinner. And the white house social secretary, who is africanamerican woman from chicago, friend of theirs, was taken heat for dropping the ball on this, and you asked robert gibbs specifically about her role, but what was it he said to you . Guest he said something to the effect of i kept asking was on a roll with questions, to the extent of calm down. I tell that to me son, and to equate me to, grown woman to a child its nothing wrong with his child but to equate me to a child was disrespectful, and he was angry at the time. For people to believe theres not retaliation when you ask the white house certain questions, and it doesnt have to be this white house. Its any white house. Thats retaliation. And the retaliation was seen on television. Part of the retaliation was seen on television. And then afterwards, i was fuming that day. I sat in my seat and i never forget, i couldnt believe it. And at that time i was sit ago then fourth row on the end seat, and i couldnt believe what happened. I just sat there. And next thing i see the doors to the Lower Press Office open and it was bill burton. Host the former guest yes, robert gibbs deputy press secretary. And hid said come here. I said. No he was shocked, and unfortunately im kind of rebellious as you know, i said, okay, im coming. I couldnt believe it. Im like, what did die wrong . In my mind. I asked legitimate questions. What happened was in my mind, and robert gibbs and i have come to a good understanding, we have a decent relationship now. But to my there was loyalty there. The Obama Administration was new and they supported one another, and the family supported they were very loyal to this woman, and there was other faux pas that caused a Security Breach at the white house. Host did you see robert gibbs at that point . Guest i did and it was a bad scene. There were other people it was other people in the room, and i just i remember gibbs telling me i owe the first lady an apology and desry an apology . I said if i did anything to offend the first lady, apologize. People were telling me and i was receiving emails and Text Messages in the leadup to this, why does robert gibbs disrespect you. Said why do you disrespect me and he said, you tell me to email them. Ill talk to them. And i im saying to myself, what did die too deserve this crazy necessary . And sometimes its rough and tumble there, and when you are someone that hey perceive by yourself because i dont have the backing of the larger networks. I dont have the backing of having other people being part i dont have a lot of specialty media that are there to focus on the same issue to have my back to follow up on questions. So i felt like i was alone, but i wasnt alone so to my surprise, many of my correspondents fellow correspondents, including yourself, were really supportive of me for the fact of saying that should not have happened that way. It was a serious line of questions, and the sources that told me stood by it, and because of that there was change at the white house. They went back to the old procedure of how to allow people to come to admit people into the white house for events, but you have to remember this was about the security of the historic presidency, and the history president. He had so many death threats. And it was any president. Host talk about the specialty media and i think a lot of americans may not understand but of theres there are the networks and Wire Services get the front row seats. Major newspapers have seats but you really do cover the white house and write about it in this book from a very particular vantage point, which crucially important to those who listen to you. Guest specialty media is media that is not necessarily we dont nosily focus in on the traditional. We are the group that we dont sit in the front row. Specialty media could be tv, radio, newspapers. But we are not the abc, the cbs, the cnn. We are the american urban radio network. We are the b b. E. T. , we are those type. We are also lgbt newspapers, christian broadcast all sorts of Different Things but not necessarily part of the husband ill lose tree to us front two ryes. But you have a seat. Guest smack dab in the middle. I used to be on the sixth row when i first started and we moved up. We moved up to the third row, and i could have a seat, and i think that is because im there every day and i ask questions of the principals, and i ask pertinent questions and we have an audience they want to get a message to. Host does sometimes a president or white house, the communications operations, take advantage of your specialty media by saying, we want to get this race story out there, this urban story out there, and they seek you it . Guest oh, yes. Host how does that work. Just recently, president obama did a race interview with b. E. T. It reverberated more with b. E. T. Than it would with a cnn or abc. So, when they want to put out information, theyll sometimes go were the goto person. They used to call me a foil. Im not a foil but ill let them you me and ill use them at the same time. So the Washington Bureau chief said sometime you have to use what you have to your advantage and that was to my advantage. The fact im work fargo mine working for a minority company that focuses on urban and africanamerican issues, but i also question on other issues as well. Mainstream issue. Host how did you deal with the second group . We talked about press secretary. Your White House Press colleagues that i for years sat right down the row from you at abc, and you write about asking a question, your first president ial News Conference, and you said that after you asked that question, you were treated like media slime. What happened . Guest this is a rough and tumble business, and we are happy for one another but its like, why not me . Why not me . Why didnt i get the question . And that is what host theyre asking why they didnt get yes. Ive heard recently. The last couple of time is have got an president from the question the president , and the last one in the summertime about africa. People are were like, how did she get senate im like, why not . You get questions all the time and i seldom get to ask question monday the press conferences as much as others. But we are a group that, were a hyper Sensitive Group and we all want to have that moment where we get the question. We want that question. But when others say, how did she get it . So i think some of that was some of the problem, and also i was new. Brand spanking new. And i worked hard. Host how did you get a question being brand new. Guest well, at the time, at the time, when i first came to the white house it was more open than it is now, and you were there when it was much more open than now. Host open in what sense. Guest we could walk around mow. I was literally coming in from outside and i had my coat on and i went to lower press. I walked in and then there was at that time i think would as a door afternoon the staff area. Guest yes. I dont think there was a door at the time that you could see people walking back and forth. I happened to be standing there and asked if could i go to upper press. They said, of course. Host the press secretarys office, just outside the oval office. Guest so i was headed to upper press to see the press secretary, who happened to be at the time mike mccrary, and the secret Service Agent said go back. I said they just told me to come they sid you got to go back. I said they just told me to come up. Not understanding what was going on. First encounter with the secret service. And so all of a sudden walking down the hall with a pretzel was president bill clinton, and so he didnt know who i was at the time. I guess he thought i was a staffer or something. He was talking to stop in the hallway, and i im looking at million at the bottom of the him at the bottom of the staff and im, youre talking to the staff and i introduced myself. And i said, please call on me, sir, and so. Host cal call on you. Guest at a press conference he said, okay. And the press conference he didnt but the next one he did, and i really i said, maybed it did work just saying hello, and i told mike mccurry to send to the president to say, thank you, and the president wrote me back. He wrote a note back on white house letterhead, and thats all she wrote. Host thats a good one. You writing a the note to the president for getting a question then getting a letter back. Guest common humanity. Host how in the News Conferences you talk about that first question when you were considered you called yourself considered yourself media slime. Was it the content of your question and were reporters hostile to you . Guest i dont think its the content of the question. I just think media slime theres a for examplelies a very sayreal relationship in that in so, i when we get classified, negatives, they say were media slime. But it might have been for others they didnt like the question. They may not have. But that was not for them to say because once again, special media, were focus on one thing and you may focusing on another and thats the greatness of having a group of people in the host dedayly briefings. Guest and the press conference because theyre more going on than just one thing. Host let me ask you about a bush 43, george w. Bush News Conference, when had a foreign visitor and you were not seed evidence with the press corps. Guest i was no. Host where . Sunny was seated with the africa yandle gages and i found that very the african delegation. A faux pas on the part of the white house. I was told after the fact i should heave been grateful. Yeah. Because i was in a seat to possibly be called on. And i really dont think that host but you were sitting with other black reporter snooze black reports. I have no problem with that but im a white house correspondent, american journalist. And even it was so odd. These are my colleagues on the other side of the room. Whats going on . I was placed here. And even the president , president bush even noticed. During the News Conference he says, why are you sitting over there . Are you trying to get a question . And i said, i was placed here. And he kept he at least acknowledged at least three times during the press conference, and he even trade to put me out so that the president the president african president would call on me and he did. So it was faux pas, and even andy card, the chief of staff at the time after that, said it was bad. Itself was a bad move. Host do you think president s regarded you differently than other reporters because you war black, because you represented a specific specialty media, because you were a woman . Did it some way work to your advantage . No i believe, yes,ed did work to my advantage and tools my disadvantage because also to my disadvantage because president clinton even told me, i get him in trouble because they didnt know what to expect from me. Other people they didnt know what to expect from me. And they sometimes didnt have an answer for me. So, many time is wouldnt be called on. President clinton told me that. So i figured if president clinton told me that, thats kind of a thought going down the line. So, this was told to me during his time in office. So, it worked to my advantage when they wanted to talk to the community to the black community, urban community. It worked to my disadvantage because they didnt call on me so much because they didnt know what was coming. So its an interesting doc, double edged sword. Host in your book youve write extensively to put todays president s in an Historical Perspective of where Race Relations have come in the united states. And you make clear that theres still a ways to go. Selma, 1964, before you were covering the white house. The Civil Rights Act has become law, and now the focus is the Voting Rights act, and Martin Luther king, jr. Is in the white house, urging president Lyndon Johnson, to move on it. Now, the film selma has been criticized by some for putting Lyndon Johnson in a very bad light. You write about your conversation with the other person who was in the room that moment. Tell us about that. Guest in the book, presidency in black and white, my upclose view of three president s and race in america, i have an exclusive interview on the record with ambassador andy young, who was in the room with dr. King, talking to lbj. Host andrew young was not only a prominent figure Civil Rights Community but a former congressman from georgia, former u. N. Ambassador and someone who worked for at that point was a relatively low level white house staffer. Guest a very credible person. More than credible. He was in the room. And this is what i dont understand with this all the theres a piece i dont understand below out this back and forthabout lbj and selma. Andy young says in this book that lbj did say that he didnt have the power to push it forward, were talking about Voting Rights. After they successfully got the self rights act. So, reverend Jesse Jackson said this is interesting he said, people like dr. King as martyr but not a mantra, so strategically, these civil rights leaders lad to figure out how to give him the power. So, they were they had to work strategically to Work Together toe get the power for the president. What was that . To go down to alabama and andy young talked about, in the book, specifically for the book, the presidency in block and white, how at the time in alabama, three people, three africanamericans could not be on the street together. It was against the laws there. For three people to be in the street together in alabama. Host because that could be considered leading to a protest or demonstration . Guest yes. They had to find a way to have a meeting to begin the process for the marchs and that was they had to strategically figure out how to present the situation so that lbj could have the power to push through the Voting Rights act. So this is someone who was in the room with dr. Martin luther king, also reverend Jesse Jackson, in the book, on the record, talking about this. Host there are audio recordings. Guest yes. Host of that former secretary Joseph Califano wrote about the using the transcripts of recordings held at the Miller Center for the study of to presidency. So this choo be a pretty well documented fact. Are you surprised at the kind of reaction that the movie has brought . Is it progress to finally have a movie that has turned out to be a commercial success about the life of dr. Martin luther king . Guest i think the movie is magnificent, and when i say magnificent, mean it brought me to tears. I felted like i was in a black clutch. I knew when i saw the four little girls i enough what what is going to happen. Brought tears to my eyes and talking about it brings tears to my eye. Very graphic to see them go back and forth on the bridge to understand im an africanamerican, if they had not done this, you and i wouldnt be able to talk today. I wouldnt be able to question three american president s. This book would not be here. So that movie i dont believe it showed everything that could have been shown baas it was very graphic but much more brutal than what we saw. But the movie touched me. I think i commend oprah, and brad pitt, all of them. I it was a wonderful movie. You have to remember people who want to plea preserve history, people died. This was not an easy struggle. People believe they wont to believe itself is so sanitize. People died. They knew people were going to get hurt and died. Black and white people died for the right for black people to vote, and. Condoleezza rice was a friend of one of the girls. Guest yes. Host and she worked within the Bush Administration obviously she was National Security adviser and secretary of state. Did she also feel she had a race portfolio . Guest secretary rice is in this book on the record and i thanked her for her truth she said that she was there and she brought to the table what needed to be brought to the table on race. Host what what did she tell them . Guest when it was time have anniversary events, no, we must have this anniversary event. Itself if were not for thats havent i would not have been able to sit at a restaurant. She says that in this book. Host her father couldnt vote until 1952. Guest Something Like that. Host she said she couldnt go to a restaurant with her family until 1964. Guest right. So, she said, if it were not for this act, have to stop and celebrate it. And she also there was another controversial piece. At the very beginning of the bush years, bill was president bush decided to write an amicus brief, a friend of the court wanted to do a friend of the court brief, and said it was about the university of michigan, and d. In host affirmative actio. Guest did not want there to be reverend shall treatment in the admission process, and condoleezza rice, National Security adviser, said, there needs to be targets of opportunities. Host giving black candidates for admission that extra measure of guest yes. The problem was that someone said they wanted to make sure that condoleezza rices story was told properly, so i heard all the hoopla about the news and i lad to go to a doctors appointment and i got a call, from the White House Press secretary, and he said, i said, sure. It is just the anniversaries and this is a very common, a common item and a perpetually freeflowing conversation and we had a beautiful time. And it was part of what happened with the producers at the time. And not only that, he is not having that with any what any of us and that is not fair. And so we thought it would never happen. And especially with everything that was hanging overhead. President clinton by this time had been impeached. Yes. This is 1999, the summer of 1999 and we were surprised that we got a call, its going to happen. And so at the time i was one of the main people from the Associated Press were trying to make this happen. And they said that there is no way that we can get into the house in baltimore with taxpayer money. So once again they would have to open up this Beautiful House and we were very thankful for that because we had the best time. President clinton had talked so much and he enjoyed it so much that we had to pull him out of the house at 11 30 p. M. So if you are around president clinton, you will talk sometimes in monologue. And you are just engrossed and you just listen. So to have him sitting there with you. As a reporter coming you better understand him. This is not a store you do the next day. This is off the record. And you always want to get in their head and find out what they are thinking and why. And you just talk about a hodgepodge of issues. And you have to find out who he was, what he was again, why this happened, why this wasnt going to happen. Its a very interesting time. We got it off the record. The moment in the Obama Administration that you get to towards the end of the book, they are the ones that i think Many Americans are acutely aware of. The Trayvon Martin individual could look like president obamas son if he had one. So what do you make of the handling of these rather explosive moments under his watch . You know, the americans were looking at him as sort of a meter. They wanted to believe that change is going to happen. That was his motto at the time for the first time. He could never reach that level of expectation that he set for himself. And so people were looking for a savior and they were looking at African Americans were hurting as the recession started. But understanding that as a black man it is different for him. And the first time, all of it. And that includes all votes. And so the second time we have now seen an africanamerican president who happens to be africanamerican. The first time that the president happens to be africanamerican. And the reason why say that is because he is open and how he regards racial issues. And as president you are president over allamerica. And allamerica has to understand where you come from on certain issues, and personally i am thankful to hear that because he has a lot of issues that a lot of people were sweeping under the rug for many decades. And the issue of a Police Involved shooting and right now you have to provide support for Law Enforcement and trying to read that. Has support for ferguson, missouri . It is such a hot bed. And what wouldve been accomplished if he did. Sumac president dont usually go somewhere sensitive unless there is something that they can bring away from it. He said sent the attorney general dharna calm down for a while. But it is a small piece of a bigger issue. People were tired. Ferguson was a town that was upside down. It has been inverted. You have white rule in black majority. And so there is an inversion of the power structure. The police were largely white, the community was overwhelmingly africanamerican. Yes. And the poverty structure is different as well. It is majority white and mostly black. So i think that eric lerner, this issue is real. And its not obama, who . But everything comes to a president and this is the thing that bothers me. We forget so easi