Transcripts For CSPAN Debate 20240703

Cspan and on the other side of the capital, the senate comes in at 3 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan two and we will watched debate right now on the measure on the fourth year long appropriations bill. I wanted to thank all of our numbers and our witnesses for being here on short nervous notice. We have previously met and taken action on the department of defense appropriations act for fiscal year 2024 and h. R. 4368, the agricultural rural development, f. D. A. Add food and Drug Administration and related agencies appropriation act of fiscal year 2024. Today were building on those actions with testimony on two additional Appropriations Bills. The first ill discuss is h. R. 4367, department of Homeland Security appropriations act for fiscal year 2024. The humanitarian and security crisis no one in this room can deny the humanitarian and security crisis at our southern border. U. S. Customs and Border Protection has declared that will over two million Illegal Immigrants have been apprehended at or near our southern border just this year. Over 140,000 have been apprehended in september so far. Thats more people than the entire city of norman, oklahoma, trying to cross into the United States and the month isnt over. The Biden Administration has lost operational control of the border. Its undeniable and a direct result of failed policies. The Biden Administration has lost operational control of the border. Its undeniable and a direct result of failed policies. Their open border agenda has wreaked havoc, motivating more and more migrants to come. Our security is in peril as criminals, terrorists and human traffickers and other nefarious individuals are empowered in take advantage. Our communities are not only overrun but also watching american lives stolen from poison like fentanyl streaming through the porous boundaries. N borders policy and securing our nation. Thats why earlier this year we passed h. R. 2, our comprehensive Border Security and Immigration Reform bill. The committee on appropriations has made those same objectives priorities in h. R. 4367. The bill provides 91. Provides 91. 5 billion in total discretionary appropriations including 62. Billion within the bills allocation. 5. Billion in discretionary appropriations offset by fee collections and 20. 2 billion as an allocation adjustment for major Disaster Response and recovery activities. This funding level is 2 billion or 2. 3 above the fiscal year 2023 enacted level. It includes 2. 3 billion for construction of physical bare dwhroarns southern border and provides nearly 500 million for 22,000 Border Patrol age, the highest level ever funded it forces secretary mayorkas to adhere to the law and resume construction of physical barriers immediately and it also defunds the Biden Administrations social policy effort because funds should be targeted at deterring and delivering an effective system, not political or cultural wish lists. This is a strong bill. I look forward to considering it further on the floor. We will take testimony on h. R. 4665, state foreign operations and related appropriations act for fiscal year 2024. This bill provides 52. 5 billion for the department of state and foreign operations, a full of. 4 billion below the president s budget request and 7. 2 billion below the fiscal year 2023 enacted level. This bill even falls 1. 7 billion below the fiscal year 2019 enacted level. H. R. 4665 provides funds where they are needed most and includes full support for key allies in the middle east like israel, egypt and jordan. It provides 4. 4 billion for National Security interests in the indopacific region. Funding which is critical to countering communist chinas malign influence. It maintains longstanding prolife protections, supports the expanded mexico city policy and prohibits funding to the United Nations Population Fund and other related programs that support abortions. It also devotes investments to countering the flow of fentanyl and other illicit drugs in the wesh hemisphere and supports freedom and democracy by counting countering malign communist influences. H. R. 4665 is a strong, fiscally responsible bill, one that represents the best values of the house of representatives. Im please that were moving forward on this measure today and look forward to considering it on the floor. Ill now yield to my good friend, our Ranking Member, mr. Mcgovern, for any remarks he wishes to make. Mr. Mcgovern thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank our witnesses for being here on such short notice. This is now our third meeting this week. One week before the government shuts down. And we are meeting to consider a rule for four Appropriations Bills. None of which represent even the slightest move forward bipartisanship or attempt to work with democrats. Yesterday on the floor, i said this was starting to feel like groundhog day because we keep doing the same thing over and over and over again, expecting a different result. But today, i think this place is starting to feel more like the twilight zone. We all know were hurtling toward a shutdown yet my friends on the other side of the aisle are terrified, scared stiff by a small handful of extremists in their own conference. Its like were traveling through another dimension. A dimension not only of sight and sound, but of republican chaos. A dimension where somehow, their leadership claims they dont want a shutdown yet continue to cave to the people who want a shutdown. Thats a sign post up ahead. Whats our next stop . Another failed rule . Look, i know it makes sense to do Appropriations Bills before government funding lapses. But maybe, just maybe, maybe, we should have done the work before our august work period. Republican leadership had months to work on and whip these bills yet we are just now getting around to considering them now, a few days before shutdown . The bottom line is that House Republican leaders have brought this chamber to a standstill because of their utter and complete inability to govern. Clearly, the ongoing civil war within the republican conference has sucked all the air and all the reason out of the room. Democrats cant negotiate with this majority because theyre busy negotiating with themselves. They do not have a plan, they do not have a strategy, they are frankly just not that good at this. And their chaos ancon fusion come at a cost. That cost is a shut dunn. A shutdown would be awful for our economy and awful for americans. I know it would be great for some of my republican colleagues, and im sure it would be also great news for donald trump and our foreign adversaries who are rooting for us to fail. It would interrupt federal programs and services that provide millions across the country with vital lifelines. It would disrupt thes thousands of peoples pay, putting pressure on families who may not be able to afford mortgage, to put food on their table, child care expenses. Health care costs. And more. It would hurt our economy increase unemployment rate, lower g. D. P. , and make it hard to pay down our debt. Yet nothing we are doing today will help avoid a shutdown. Where is the c. R. . Where is the reasonable, responsible, bipartisan c. R. That can pass . None of they the extreme draconian cuts in these bills have the broad support needed to pass to become law. Dont take my word for it. Look whats been going on on the floor the last few weeks. My friends have already tried pass this exact agricultural appropriations bill out of committee and then they gave up. I presume because they didnt have the votes to pass it on the floor. Maybe thats because this bill takes food out of the mouths of pregnant mothers and newborns, harms Rural Communities and increases energy costs for farmers. My friends have already passed a defense appropriations bill out of the Committee Twice this week alone. During a meeting a couple of days ago i asked my friends are you sure . You sure you have the votes this time . And we were told yes. Guess what happened. The rule vote failed again. So i guess ill ask again, are you really, really, really very sure . Or are we going to be right back here next week working on these same exact bills . Im hearing rumors that the only difference between this defense spending bill and the bill from earlier this week is slashing aid for ukraine. I think thats absolutely sick and wrong. I mean, i have actually been to kyiv, met with president zelenskyy. I think i may be the only person in this room who has been on the ground in ukraine and seen what russia is doing there. President zelenskyy was here yesterday, once again explaining how this money isnt a handout. Its in americas interest and the entire worlds interest that freedom and democracy prerails. And now we learn that Speaker Mccarthy refused president zelenskyys request for a joint meeting of congress. Given how far some members on the other side of the aisle go to praise putin and apologize for russia, i cant say im surprised. Now we are considering two new appropriation bills for the first time, Homeland Security and state and foreign operations. The state and foreign operations bill abandons American Global leadership and unravels the hardfought credibility and influence we have worked so hard to achieve on the world stage. Its also full of a bunch of maga culture war riders trying to ban abortion nationwide wasnt enough. Now republicans want to ban abortion worldwide. Through the global gag rule. I mean banning pride flags from flying alongside the american flag, with all the problems in the world thats what were focused on . Are you kidding me . This Homeland Security bill spends billions on a ridiculous, jut dated border wall that will do nothing at all to top illegal border crossings. It cuts funding for terrorism prefng and Cyber Security protection and it hear about migrants being released into the United States yet you are cutting the funding that would be used to process their cases faster. It doesnt make any sense. So we will go through the motions here today. But i plead with my colleagues to choose a different path here. This is nuts. This is an awful, awful, awful process. It is being used to advance awful, awful, awful bills. Can we please just be honest . These bills are partisan talking points. And we need to get serious. Like yesterday. I said it earlier, ill say it again. People are fed up with Kevin Mccarthys weak, ineffective, incompetent leadership. Its like every room the speaker go into is an escape room. He just does whatever he needs to do to get out even if it means caving to maga republicans every single time. He has one meeting and ukraine money is in. The next meeting the ukraine money is out. Maybe i should ask for a meeting with him, all he does is say yes, maybe ill get something i i want. Enough already. Lets come together and actually let appropriators on both sides of the aisle write something that can pass in a bipartisan way so we can end this drama and keep the lights on. A week from tomorrow, a week from tomorrow, is the date that this government shuts down if we dont do anything. And yet we do not have a continuing resolution. We do not have anything that looks that will avoid that awful outcome. With that, mr. Chairman, i yield back my time. Mr. Cole without objection, any prepared statements our witnesses may have will be included in the record. Id like to welcome our first panel. Chairman Mario Diazbalart on the committee on state Foreign Relations and related. Ranking member joyce and cuellar and Ranking Member rosa delauro from the full committee on appropriations. Chairman diazbalart, welcome back to the rule ches, i welcome your testimony. Mr. Diazbalart mr. Chairman, chairman cole, Ranking Member mcgovern and distinguished members of this committee. Thank you so much for the opportunity to testify on fiscal year 2024 department of state and foreign operations and related programs appropriations bill. This bill was developed over many months. Through a very careful, thorough review of the organizations and programs that receive u. S. Taxpayer dollars. Now, if for anyone who has read the bill you know it reflects a really significant different approach. From what weve been dealing with in the past. But its also straightforward. Let me be clear what this bill does. If you are a friend or an ally of the United States, this bill supports you. But, if you are an adversary, an adversarial country, an organization, or you are cozying up to the adversaries of the United States, let me be very frank. Youre not going to like this bill. Moi mang the factors considered were whether we could see demonstrated real results. Whether the investments were something that advances the National Security interest of the United States. And while wherever possible responsibly reducing spending. The state foreign operations bill totals 55. 2 billion in new authority as the chairman mentioned which is a reduction of 7. 2 billion or 12 reduction from fiscal year 2023 enacted levels. And its 16. And its 16. 4 billion or 24 below the president s request. This amount is offset by 11. 1 billion in rescissions in partisan and wasteful spending items. So this bill includes measures that address the National Security threat to the United States posed by communist china. And it really responds, members, in a really aggressive, unprecedented manner. The United States must get serious about the malign and destabilizing, dangerous actions of communist china around the world. This bill funds important programs to counter the threat of communist china with 4. 4 billion. But let me put that in perspective. That is 1 billion above what the president requested even though, by the way, in his request he spent a lot more money. 1 billion above the president s request to confront, confront communist china. This bill support ours friends in the indopacific. And it includes new safeguards to prevent taxpayer dollars from supporting the Chinese Communist party. You may say, you know, what is he talking about . Ill mention that later. Yes, we go out of our way to again confront communist china. Furthermore, the bill encourages investment for near shoring, obviously something thats critical to supply chains so they are brought closer to the United States and americans, we are not dependent on china for essential products and essential needs. For the first time im extremely proud of this. For the first time the bill provides 500 million on Foreign Military finance for taiwan. Thats never been done in this bill before. This is critical to support a key democratic ally that is on the frontlines of chinas threat and growing. Theres another priority in this bill, which impacts i think all americans. To combat the trafficking of opiates and obviously in particular fentanyl. Every single district, our districts, our neighborhoods, our schools continue to see the effects of this deadly, deadly drug. Theres so many examples but i want to im sure you all saw it last week, one a 1yearold boy fell ill and later died and three other kids got sick in what seems to be another exposure in new york city to this deadly drug. And as you all know 300 americans die every single day from fentanyl poisoning. So funding directed in this bill will strengthen efforts to counter that just deadly production and trafficking of fentanyl. Now before before discussing funding for the United Nations, i think its important to take a step back. Lets look about tissue lets talk about who is running the show there at the u. N. This is in the category of you cant make this stuff up. Unfortunately, its true. Russia was chair of the u. N. Security council during the month of april. Yes. Russia. Iran is currently and elected Vice President of the u. N. General assembly. This is, by the way, something we are helping to fund. Communist china, whose genocide against uighurs is raging. And cuba, one of the worlds oldest and most brutal dictatorship. Both of those in the category that you cant make this stuff up sit on the u. N. Human rights council. For gods sake. And as if that wasnt enough, north korea i dont even know how to begin to describe the regime in north korea. That terrorist state that threatens the world is a member of the world health organization. While taiwan, by the way, a responsible democracy, they have been blocked from membership. To that body. Really . It sounds like fate. But those are the facts. So therefore. My dear friends, it should come as no surprise that no funds, no funds are included in this bill for the u. N. Regular budget. The u. N. Contributions the u. S. Contributions for u. N. Peacekeeping will reduce to comply with u. S. Law. I know, novel concept, were going to comply with u. S. Law in this bill when it comes to that function. And furthermore, contributions to the National Organization in a responsible way are cut by 82 . This bill also prohibits funds from the Green Climate fund and the Clean Technology fund. Furthermore to address the just crazy expansion of bureaucracy, the bill eliminates funding for special envoys and special representatives that are not authorized by you, by us, by congress, or have not been confirmed by the senate. Lets be very clear. If theyre not important if theyre that important, for gods sake, have them authorized. Have the Senate Confirm them. I want to mention a few allies. This bill provides unwavering, unwavering support for our democratic ally israel and recognizes the vital Security Partners in the region. Finally. And i think equally as important, this bill includes all all longlasting prolife protections which include prohibition on all taxpayer funds, taxpayer funds from being used to pay for abortions and builds on those requirements by applying the protecting life and Global Health assistance policy to all Global Health funding. Yes, in this process, we have differences. And we have differences among ourselves and we clearly have partisan differences. I would like to apride my dear friends that after the bill is released, my colleague,000,000 democratic colleagues on the committee, immediately released a sent out a press release condemning the bill. I will have to tell you i was surprised by some of the issues that my democratic colleagues put in their press release as specific issues that they have problems with in this bill. Im going to ask later if i can submit for the record the press release that my democratic colleagues put out. Mr. Cole without objection. Mr. Diazbalart thank you. So let me just kind of read some of this. The press release expressed that and i quote, this is some of the problems my democratic colleagues had on the bill in writing. They put this. That the bill prohibits funding, which by the way it does, from, quote, for, quote, the institute of Wuhan Institute of virology. We do have that prohibition. The ecohealth alliance. Gain of function research. And any lab controlled by china, russia, cuba, iran, north korea, and venezuela. End of quote. Im quoting. From the press release of our esteemed democrats. On this bill. Look. That list, that is the official list of foreign adversaries of the United States. So yeah, absolutely. We have language, we explicitly do not, do not permit funding for those countries. Does anybody think that taxpayer money should go to those countries . Thats a difference of opinion we clearly have for this bill. Theres also Something Else id like to quote. They express, our democratic friends who i have Great Respect for, concern with the, quote, partisan riders that they highlight some, this is one they highlight. They are concerned because we have prohibition on funds to the governments of the p. R. C. Or the Chinese Communist party. And yes, that we prevent mendinm International Financial institutions to the p. R. C. Yeah, we do have differences of opinion. And thats ok. That is ok. Thats why this process is so beautiful. Im not usually shocked but im still frankly a little bit in disbelief that my colleagues in the minority would think that under any scenario, that u. S. Taxpayer dollars should go to support the communist Chinese Party or these other countries that i mentioned that they quote in their press release criticizing this bill. Mr. Chairman, and esteemed members of this committee, thank you so much for holding this hearing. I know you all are extremely busy. So again im grateful for this opportunity and im ready to answer any questions. With that, mr. Chairman, i respectfully yield back. Mr. Cole thanks very much. Next to my good friend, the Ranking Member of the full Appropriations Committee, representative delauro, also nice to see you. Youre recognized for your opening statement. Ms. Delauro thank you, mr. Chairman. Im delighted to join you, rankingmen mcgovern and the rest of the Committee Members on the rules committee. Let me begin with some comments that were made by president trumps former secretary of defense mark esper. He had this to say in response to this bills proposed cut of the state and foreign operations allocation by nearly one third. And i quote. When we dont lead, we create a vacuum that will be filled instead by china. He continues, americas leadership means more than just military capability, diplomacy and foreign assistance are part of this too. This proposed budget would upend that relationship by gutting our civilian tool kit and depriving america of the diplomatic leadership whose benefits i have seen last a lifetime. End quote. I have further, quote, from admiral james staridis from the United States Global Leadership coalition, the American Jewish committee, christian connections for international health, care, and president of the one campaign of of all who come out in opposition to this bill. So i would like to submit this compilation of letters along with my written testimony. Mr. Cole without objection. Ms. Delauro thank you. We will be told that, and we are told, that this 2024 state and foreign operations funding bill is tough on our adversaries. But the opposite is true. This bill cedes americas position as the leader of the global community. It weakens our National Security. It shortchanges foreign assistance. And it hinders our ability to address the climate chi crisis and it harms women around the world. This is a reversal of the United States position on the world stage and it promotes isolation. We are supposed to be the leaders of the free world. The majority is diminishing the United States. What we stand for and what our values are. For our own people and for people around the world who look to us for inspiration. And for hope. Damage has already been done as partners and allies wonder whether the United States will be with them or whether they will be forced to turn to the Chinese Communist party or to russia to get needed investments or support in international institutions. With this bill, and i said the p. R. C. Who this bill purports to be tough on, the p. R. C. Has increased Development Spending and financing by 430 over the last 10 years available data. With china surpassing the United States as the largest training trading partner in many countries and latin america and africa. China has more embassies and consulates, diplomats and assistance than anyone else in the world. They are challenging our model of democracy and capitalism around the world and growing virtually unchallenged. They led the world in providing vaccines during the pandemic, with an inferior product, because we were unable to move in an International Way to provide vaccines for the rest of the world. This bill is an unfathomable 31 cut to our nations ability to engage in diplomacy and project soft power. But knowing such a cut would be irresponsible and lead to negative repercussions around the world this bill claws back billions of dollars, 11 billion which comes from the e. P. A. Greenhouse gas reduction fund, part of the inflation reduction act. I might add that when you look to rescission, rescissions are cutting some of the most valuable programs that we have. I might just make a comment with regard to israel. Because the continuing resolution which has been offered by the majority in fact would cut the state Foreign Ops Committee by 8. 1 . Thats an 8. 1 cut to the funds that we provide to israel. Cole, joyce, diazbalart, reschenthaler, you are all appropriators. You have experience in acting experience enacting spending bills. You know what we should be doing right now and this is not it. We are out of time. We cannot pass 11 Appropriations Bills in the house and the senate and get a signature from the president by september 30. The urgent issue is keeping the lights on. Everyone in this room knows that keeping the u. S. Government running will require bipartisanship. Lets get to work in that effort. Democrats and republicans already compromised to pass the debt limit bill with a budget agreement. But because House Republicans immediately reneged, they have moved us to the brink of a shutdown. Thank you and i yield back. Mr. Cole thank you. Well next go to, i was going to say my very good friend, but youre all my very good friends. My very good friend dave joyce of ohio, chairman of the committee on Homeland Security appropriations. Mr. Joyce thank you, chairman cole, Ranking Member mcgovern and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the 2024 department of Homeland Security proapgs bill. The bill before us today provides 62. 8 billion for the department of Homeland Security and increase of 2. 1 billion above the fiscal year 2023 level. In addition, the bill also includes 20. 3 billion for Disaster Response and recovery activity for devastating wildfires in maui and others. The United States Border Security has raised for two years. Its Clear Funding priorities and policies have not worked. Two million migrants have crossed the border illegal each they have last two years and this years numbers are on the same trajectory. The reason is obviously. This administration is sending all the wrong signals with its open border policy and failure tone force the nations immigration laws. This bill forces the Biden Administration to do what it will not do on its own to address the Border Security crisis thats been raging for the last 2 1 2 years. The funding and policy provisions included in this bill are in lockstep with provisions of h. R. 2 which together will put us on a path for securing the border. This bill returns the tried and true Border Security approach by investing in methods that both secure the border and secure those who have no legitimate basis for entry. This bill includes 2. 1 billion in physical barriers with explicit conditions that the funds will be put on the contracts quickly. We all know that walls work. The bill also provides 500 million to hire more agents to reach a strength of 22,000. This bill increases funding for Border Security technology so our agents and officers have the latest, most effective equipment to detect and deter illegal activity. Detecting fentanyl and other markets ravming our communities is a prior fir all of us. The bill provides 305 billion for nonintrusive inspection equipment at the nations point of entry. Thises a deterrent to those who seek to abecause our immigration system and falsely claimed asylum. As a result this will provide funding for 41,000 detention beds, 15,000 more than the administration requested, to ensure they have adequate capacity for the final removal orders and impose for those who pose a risk to have Public Safety as well as migrants who cross our borders without reason to do so. To counter the growing chinese influence in the indopacific it provides 335 million to the coast guard for Fast Response cutters. And it provides fund they are coast guard to acquire a commercial ice breaker to extend our reach and counter chinese and russian reach into polar regions. I i urge my colleagues to support this bill. I yield back. Mr. Cole we go to my good friend, the Ranking Member of the Homeland Security subcommittee on appropriations, mr. Cuellar of texas. Mr. Cuellar chairman cole, thank you for allowing me here, Ranking Member mcgovern, thank you so much. To all the members of the committee thank you so much, including mr. Massie. But i do also want to thank my fellow he was smiling at me. I want to thank our ranking chairwoman also member and my colleagues here. I just want to say if we would do a Situational Awareness analysis i think the threat right now is the shutdown. I wish we would be here talking about a c. R. Instead of trying pass a bill on homeland or the other bills that we know are not going to go very far in the next eight days. In fact the president just put out a statement he would veto the Homeland Security bill as presented right now. We should be focusing on a c. R. I live on the border. I dont just go visit the border, ive been talking to Border Patrol agents, been talking to some of the Border Patrol chiefs. Ive talked to secretary mayorkas yesterday, and other folks. Theyre worried about if theres a shutdown. If you look at the numbers of people coming in and the strength of the Border Patrol are facing right now and then to tell them youre going to continue working without a paycheck while they have, you know, theyve got mortgages, theyve got things they have to pay, theyve got family, theyve got kids to get off to school. This is we should be focusing on the c. R. So we can allow the process to work. Mr. Chairman, weve done this, and member delauro, we have done this so many times. We know what happens here. We should be focusing on a c. R. Nevertheless, let me give you my thoughts on the Homeland Security bill itself. Chairman joyce is a good friend of mine. We were put if we were put in a room together we could work this out rather quickly. I just have to say there are a lot of good things on the bill but theres a lot of things that are missing on the bill itself. So let me just say, weve got to understand the border. Some of yall paint the border as the very dangerous war. Sen. I would say look at the stats, rape, assault, murder. The border is a lot safer. If you take laredo as an example. Those rates are lower than here in washington, d. C. Actually, washington, d. C. If you look at crime statistics, were in a more dangerous area than the border itself. Thats on the crime itself. But if you look at migration issues, yes we are. We do have some issues that we have to address. But i would say that we need to stop looking at the border as the 1yard line. Because we are talking about putting so many resources on the 1yard line called the border, what we ought to do is extend the perimeter and look at what we ought to do on the 20yard line. We need to lack at more resources outside the border. Give homeland authority so they can do the work outside the border. And look at how we can work with mexico, central america, panama, columbia, and colombia and other countries to address this issue. Now this bill has a lot of bipartisan investments and requirements we need to look at. But theres still some things that we need to look at. Ill start off with the border. I know for a lot of yall the border wall is so important to address but again it is a 14cent solution to a 24cent problem. We look at people coming in, there are some people that come in that try to evade. But the majority of people we see right now are going to turn themselves in because theyre asking for asylum. I dont want to get into the dede bait of asylum, most of those folks dont qualify under the thraism law is you have to have persecution. By the state. Based on religion, sex or one of those reasons. If its drought or another reason, crime and all that, it doesnt qualify. For asylum. I dont want to get into the debit of asylum right now but i do want to say if you think the wall is going to stop them its not. Its not. Its not going to happen. Let me give you a reason. I know our governor talked about building putting some buoys. That was less than a quarter mile of the buoys. For a 1,200 mile border. Quarter of a mile, less than a quarter of a mile for less than for 1,200 miles. Talk about the wall. Lets look where the boundary. Is if you look at the 1,200 miles that we have, the boundary is actually the middle of the river. Do we put a fence there . No, we dont. Do we put it at the river banks . No we dont. If you put it at the river banks the water will make it wash off. We put the im sorry the fence about a quarter mile or half a mile away from the river. So if somebody is asking for asylum, they cross the river, touched the river banks, they walk up a quarter mile, they walk up to half a mile and ask for asylum. Does the fence stop them . When were spending 36 million a mile, where we can use 3 million a mile, no it doesnt. I can either leave this here or leave it in the smalle room at the capitol and have somebody find it but ill say. This if you look at the fence if you look at the fence itself mr. Cole the gentleman is not allowed to hold up exhibits. Yes, sir. Ill leave that somewhere where people can find it. If you see where the fence is, its in the going to work. Mr. Cuellar i would ask you also if you want to take away the shelter and Services Program, this is something that i started back in 2014. We changed it in 2017. The reason i wanted it then, you had border communities, not for profit theats border handling this. If we take that away that means youre going to leave all those migrants at the border communities like laredo and el paso and other places. I would ask you to reconsider the shelter and Services Program also. Again, weve got to make sure that we, if we add money to Border Security that we do it in a smart way. Change the authority, add funding outside the border as much as we can. Again, put in money where its going to make a difference. For example, theres no funding for uscis that helps reduce the applications for backlogs and helps lawful permanent residents become citizens. The Asylum Seekers dont pay a fee but the people who have been waiting in line do pay a fee. But were not putting any resources in there. All im asking is, allow the process to work, let us sit down, democrats and republicans, and im sure that the chairman and i can sit down along with kay granger and Ranking Member delauro, we can work this out. We have done this before. But if were going to do a Situational Awareness, the danger right now is not trying to pass a bill thats going to be vetoed, maybe not even pass on the floor. The focus should be on the c. R. So we can allow both the house and Senate Democrats and republicans to work out the Homeland Security bill. Mr. Chairman, i want to thank you and Ranking Member and members, id be happy to answer any easy questions you might have. [laughter] mr. Cole theres lots of easy questions. I want to thank all of you for your testimony. I sit on the Appropriations Committee, ive had opportunity to hear extensive debate on both of these bills. I have no questions at this time. So ill just move to my good friend, the distinguished vice chairman of the rules committee, dr. Burgess, for any questions he might have for our panel. Mr. Burgess thank you, mr. Chairman. We could talk a great deal of time about this. Mr. Cuellar and i both represent border communities in our state my border is with oklahoma. Which is a separate problem. Mr. Cuellar that cob a dangerous border, especially with the football player. Mr. Cole they come of their own free will. Mr. Its a friendly border except next month in october. Well see you in dallas, deep in your own territory. Mr. Burgess if you and i in 2014, all of the unaccompanied minors coming to Lackland Air Force base in san antonio, and the first lady of honduras came to texas. She was asked, dont you want your children back . She said yes, of course we want our children back. And the administration accommodated and sent a lot of the children back. The effect that that had if i recall correctly was to dramatically reduce the influx of unaccompanied children at that time so we do know that repatriating people or turning people back or remain in mexico, whatever we want to call it, does work. We probably disagree late bit about the practicality of the border wall but the idea is you get people to the border, push them to the points of entry rar than just what weve been seeing on our television screens. Its i cant believe the president would veto a Homeland Security bill with what is has been in evidence literally for years. The past several days at eagle pass its unbelievable. So bad that our governor has declared an invasion which is kind of a bold step. But its untenable, it cant go on. And the president is going to veto a Homeland Security bill . I mean thats crazy talk. I think there are some things we could agree on, remain in mexico policy can be the be enforced. The Biden Administration was told by the court it had to continue it but they stopped enforcing it. The numbers precipitously dropped off. We saw in the Obama Administration repray pais traiting children, back to guatemala, hon deur raws and el salvador, good results and dramatic reduction. Its a lot of money those families are spending to send a child or themselves here and if theres no return on investment then theyve got this incredible debt with no way to satisfy that. I do have to say mr. Cuellar i do have to say we have to put resources. I do want Border Security, im not for open borders. We need more immigration judges, have them at the border to give them a thumbs up, thumbs down, see who qualifies under credible fear or under asylum. Why dont we give homeland more authority where they can do their work outside the border. Right now theyre just playing defense if you look at the imannals right now, in el paso and eagle pass right now, basically we have d. P. S. , theyre talk about sending another 800 or 900 military down there. And then Border Patrol. What can they do . Policy repercussions i agree does apply. Working with those countries are very, very important in provide in providing resources to address that. One time under the obama ad mrg, mexico was stopping more people at their southern border than our u. S. Border patrol. So again this is why i emphasize extending our perimeters will be very important. Mr. Burgess still its difficult to overcome the sophistication of the cartels. They have had decades to perfect their trade. You and i both know they have. The Communications Method that they have, someone gets across and i saw someone interviewed on television, he got across, hes happy hes here. Good future ahead of him. And he communicates that back. Those guys charging ,000, 9,000, hey, it worked, i recommend you try it as well. You have to interrupt that at some point. I dont disagree with that. Disagree with you, youre not going to interrupt it i at the border but you have to interrupt it. When the governor of mexico put Additional Resources on their southern board they are cartels found ways around that. They had rather big ferries bringing people across at probably high remuneration. I would also, this is just me but man i would tax remittances to pay for all of this stuff. I think we could afford a lot more than the than what we are investing. And theres a place to get that money without coming to longsuffering american taxpayers. Mr. Cuellar i think were on the same page on disruption. I have an amendment that takes 2. 1 billion away if the wall and puts it for h. S. I. To disrupt, put more outside the u. S. So we can do that. Weve just got to be smart. We all want Border Security, we all want to respect the migrants rights and who qualifies who doesnt qualify, but its just being targeted on doing this and targeted, we have the Vice President , i mean we have the first lady dunn to the border this weekend. The president as far as i know, the president of honduras. Hes coming down to the southern border because again, like you said, they want their kids back. Who wants to lose that generation . And i remember that, you, kay granger and myself and other folks were down there thank you. Were on the same page but youve got to include us. Got to include the democrats. Mr. Burgess mr. Diazbalart, i so enjoyed your presentation today. You did an excellent job. I thought you were quoting from the babylon bee about north korea. Health organization. I fought for years to try to get taiwan eeber status in the world health organization. Maybe its time to eliminate funds for the world health organization. They havent provided anything of value for the American People. We have a long day ahead of us. I yield back. Mr. Cole i turn to my good friend, the distinguished Ranking Member, mr. Mcgovern, for any questions you may have. Mr. Mcgovern well first of all. Let me just say, mr. Yois, everybody doesnt believe, as you said, that walls work. They dont. And in fact, we know that as mrt how people were getting around it. Mr. Burgess just talked about how cartels are sophisticated in finding ways around it. So if we want to talk about Border Security, we ought to have a conversation about that. But lets have a conversation about Border Security but lets have it in 2023, not 23 b. C. When walls for the only thing that worked. And lets talk about things that actually keep the border secure. And not simply things that make donald trump happy. And i think thats what this is happening here. Mr. Diazbalart, i think we all share the view that north korea is a bad player but i was wondering where all my friends were when donald trump made the statement that about kim jong un that, we fell in love. There was no pushback about that or all the proputin statements, all the, you know, bowing to russia. So in any event, let me just say that is an exercise in futility. This is not real, what were doing here. I mean, let me just put some facts on the table. This is a statement of Administration Policy, h. R. 4365, the department of defense appropriations act for 2024. It says if the president were presented with h. R. 4365, he would veto it. Heres the statement of Administration Policy on h. R. 4368, the agriculture and rural development, food and Drug Administration and related agencies appropriations act of 2024. The president were presented with h. R. 4368 he would veto it. Let me read to you the statement of Administration Policy on h. R. 4367, department of Homeland Security appropriations act for 2024. If the president were present with h. R. 4367 he would veto it. Let me read you the statement of Administration Policy on h. R. 4365, department of state and Foreign Relations appropriations act of 2024. If the president were presented with h. R. 4665 he would veto it. Theres lot of explanation and detail on why. We know the president would veto those bills. Let me ask you a question. Have you, any of you, been given assurances from the United States senate, the appropriate dwhroars Senate Minority leader or majority leader that if, assuming we pass the rule, next week which is a we cant assume that in this place any more but assuming we take these up, have you been given an assurance the senator will take these up . Anybody . Mr. Joyce ive had the opportunity to talk to my senate counterparts, we all believe the border is very important. Mr. Mcgovern but do we have any assurance theyll take up their version and theres time negotiate the differences between the house and senate by next saturday . Mr. Joyce i dont have assurance from them but we cant get unless we pass these bills. I do want to take issue with the chief of Border Patrol who does believe walls will keep people out and keep people from coming here. I have to rely on experts on the field. Mr. Mcgovern i was a history major in college. I dont know of any wall that somebody hasnt climbed over or gone under. The time for detailed conversation about this, is in the right before a shutdown. It was in june. And we could still have that conversation in more detail but we need to get a continuing resolution passed so we dont shut the government down mr. Diazbalart. Mr. Diazbalart thank you, mr. Ranking member, always a pleasure. I also have had conversations and as you know the process is, senate will do their part, well do our part, we go to conference. This is why im optimist take you will vote this rule forward so we can start the process. Mr. Mcgovern i appreciate the conversation, i appreciate your response but that dunn answer my question. Im trying to we know the administration will veto these bills. I think we know theyre dead on arrival in the United States senate. So theres lots of big differences here. So assuming that all of the bills passed, still some bills that havent been mr. Mcgovern we cant even consider those in rules yet. So the idea that all of these bills are going to be passed and the senate is going to do this and negotiate all the differences he on major policy issues, thats just not real, we all know that. I dont know if this is the place or maybe well ask some of the people who have been voting against the rules when they testify whether or not they will vote for a c. R. If we go through this exercise next week. I think the answer is no. What are we doing here . I dont quite get this. I mean so can i just ask, anybody do you favor a Government Shutdown . I wasnt elected to shut down the government but make it work. I echo his words. I echo chairman joyces words, so no. Mr. Mcgovern none of us want a shutdown. So why are we negotiating bills that can actually make it to the president s desk and signed into law . The shortterm why are we negotiating around a shortterm a week from saturday the government shuts down and we havent heard a draft of anything. I dont understand like we are doing this here. Any way. I will just say one thing on a lighter note, its good to see Caesar Gonzalez who worked on the rules committee when he was hear and was thrilled to get off the rules committee. [laughter] mr. Mcgovern rules committee has a way of sucking people back in. Ms. Delauro, anything you want to add or are we all set . Ms. Delauro we are all set. One of the four, ready to sit down any time any place, which we have done this in the past. Mr. Mcgovern if this was a serious effort. Thank you for highlighting Caesar Gonzales because we cant do the job that we have. He is one of the finest. I appreciate the fact that you mentioned staff and particularly mentioning him. Thank you, sir. Mr. Mcgovern mentioning him in a positive way, i hope i didnt get him fired. [laughter] mr. Mcgovern if this were a serious undertaking right now and i have a ton of questions on both of these bills, but its not. Lets get on with this and whatever. I yield back. Mr. Cole i want to share my friend that we consider mr. Gonzales part of the adult supervision. So i think his position is probably secure. I have a quick question for my friend. Did you submit these statements for the record . Mr. Mcgovern i ask that they be admitted submitted for the record. Mr. Cole without objection. Mr. Diazbalart today happens to be the 20th anniversary of mr. Gonzales working with the diazbalart brothers in this process. And i know there is no place that he would rather be than here in the rules committee. So thank you. [applause] mr. Cole my friend, mr. Mcgovern is fond of using groundhog day. Boy, you must be living the ultimate. I go to my friend mr. Reschenthaler for any questions he may have for the panel. Mr. Reschenthaler i thank the chairman. I thank the hard work everybody put in. I want to thank chairman diazbalart for working with me and thoughts on the language mark vogel and wrongfully detained senate tuesday. He has been wrongfully detained we have no explanation from the state department. He met 7eleven criteria on wrongfully detained status. Thanks for including my language in the bill. I appreciate it. Anybody have anything they want to add or anything . Mrs. Fischbach, dont encourage them. I yield back. [laughter] mr. Cole i regular nighs mr. Neguse for any questions he may have. Mr. Neguse thank you for joining us today on short notice. I do think context as to why the rules committee is meeting this afternoon is important. For those poor souls who may be watching this hearing on cspan and assuming that the house is in fact, in session, it is important to disabuse that notion. The house is not in session. Why . Because the speaker sent e home for the e home for the everyone home for the weekend seven days before the government will shut down. I seek unanimous consent to enter an article from politico this morning reading more house rules votes have failed this week than in the past two decades, thank about that. More house rules have failed in the last five days than in the last 20 years in the house of representatives. That is House Republican control. Dysfunction. Most americans might wonder how did we get here and what legislative strategy has the House Republican caucus devised or developed to avoid a Government Shutdown. That waste an entire summer debating bills on protecting gas stoves and the like, wait eight days before government funding runs out and then bring before this committee and the full house a series of partisan bills that stand no chance of passing in the senate much less being signed into law by the president. Thats why were here. And i think i heard someone one of your republican colleagues caught it he is not that wrong about it. Mr. Vogel had a right and the summation of the past four months is accurate. I think that republican colleagues will be candid and honest about it and saying thats true. The last three months is accurate. Its unfortunate because there are Border Patrol agents and members of our farmed armed forces are wondering wondering if they will get a paycheck and the Republican Caucus will get their act together so the government can remain open and running. I have Great Respect for my colleagues who are testifying today and i hope they understand that as i asked a series of questions because i do think the American People deserve answers as to why the Republican Caucus has decided to engineer a Government Shutdown. Mr. Joyce, i know you to be a reasonable member and certainly by reputation and you have a great working relationship i understand with my colleague from texas, mr. Cuellar, your Ranking Member on your subcommittee let me take a step back. I take it you will describe the situation on our southern border as urgent . Mr. Joyce yes. Mr. Neguse and when did the Homeland Security subcommittee hold hearings on this bill that we are considering today . My understanding is you have a lot of hearings. Mr. Joyce we passed it in the full committee in july. Mr. Neguse would june 21 of this year sound about right that the full committee marked up your bill. Mr. Joyce i have been working on it since the day i was appointed as chairman and my Ranking Member have trying to implement a strategy that is happening at the border. Mr. Neguse i appreciate your commitment. The question is j has it taken 100 days for the Homeland Security subcommittee and the full Appropriations Committee to bring this bill to the rules committee if the situation on the southern border is as urgent as you and i both believe it is . Mr. Joyce you know if i was running this place, i would prioritize things mr. Neguse who is in charge . Do i talk to republican whip, Speaker Mccarthy, who do i ask this question . Mr. Joyce the appropriations process we have field hearings the first six months. July as we have processed 10 of our 12 bills. Mr. Neguse you did your work. June 21 you marked up the bill. June 21 was 100 days ago. What has happened in the intervening 100 days. Why didnt we take up this bill last month or in july . Mr. Joyce i dont take the schedule. Mr. Neguse do you understand why the American People would be frustrated and see a Republican Caucus that purports and states that the situation on our southern border is urgent but waits 100 days to bring a funding bill. Does that make sense . Mr. Joyce i think the American People are completely frustrated. I think it was my friend mr. Diazbalart and the countries he talked about who came here in 2014 and 2015. We want our children to stay home. We wished the president obama said you are not welcome here. And started deporting people and pushing back on entry, the numbers went down and stayed down. This administration from day one have said there is a green light, please come. And giving venezuela wail an cards. And they dont care whether. You cant call what is happening down there christian or humane. People are coming to freedom and not fair to anyone and the American People are having to pay for it. Mr. Neguse as i said, mr. Joyce, mr. Chairman, i understand your passion, i understand your commitment and i understand that your subcommittee did its job working with mr. Cuellar holding a series of hearings this year and appropriations i have but the committee marked up the bill and my point that im trying to better understand i suppose is the question that i am trying to reconcile is why the House Republican majority decided to spend the summer regarding gas stoves and prarie chicken and send everyone home for a 47day recess and come back seven days before the government is slated to shut down and troops and government patrol agents decide now they like to bring this bill to the floor. And your answer in the very beginning was a candid one. I should talk to who is running the place. That is the speaker and republican leadership. I dont know that they testify in front of this committee. The American People will be waiting for an answer. Mr. Joyce, you said in a recent interview, september 11 of this year in for example magazine and said as we get close to september 30 and making good head way on these things, a short continuing resolution and that was in brackets may be in line. Ask you to verify. I talked to a lot of reporters, what i am curious is whether or not you still hold that view and maybe a final point on it, how close is close enough to september 30. Is 8 days close enough, 7 days the enough. The House Republican caucus said we are close to the government shutting down and costing billion dollars and doing a shortterm c. R. On a bipartisan basis isnt a bad idea it seems like you might be there with me on that front. What im looking for are governing partners are just people who might have completely ideological views and not interested in seeing this place the speaker said in response to a question, burn down . Mr. Joyce i i made that statement because i believe that negotiations back and forth between our members 435 of us members of this house taking place that is moving the ball forward, in other words addressing the concerns to get our Spending Priorities in order is something that deserves the time it takes to get that done. Today we have some bills coming up. Next week we will have bills coming to us. Short period of time that we are striving to get our work done a c. R. Is in order. And we can put together once and for all the American People, 12 Appropriations Bills, set a number that we can administer this government and carry out the duties of this government. We havent done that in a long time. I am a big fan of that. If you check in that, i have said that people here should get appropriations 101. I had the luxury with chairman coal take me by the arm, if you will and guide me through this process and its important. Its a long involved process to come up with these bills. It takes a hell of a lot of time and work and American People deserve to know that we are getting the work done. Mr. Neguse i hear you, the question that Many Americans are asking, why risk it . Why risk Border Patrol agents and our armed forces not getting paid . Why not do the c. R. . We are seven days away. The sentiment i dpleen from your answer to a reporter is a reasonable sentiment, the notion you get close to that september 30 date and not in the best interest of the country to allow the government to shut down. Lets do a c. R. As we have done in the past and get back to regular order. I dont understand why when i believe is actually the view shared by certainly the majority of members of the house of representatives, not a majority i suppose of your caucus or perhaps yourself and others, why we cant proceed on that basis. I appreciate the candor and let me yield a moment to the Ranking Member of the full committee. Ms. Delauro if i might excuse myself, i have a train to catch very shortly. If i can, i had the rare exceptional opportunity for the last two years in chairing the committee of making sure that with both democrats and republicans as you you will know, we came together last december and it was in the hands of the appropriators and both sides of the aisle that we hammered out the bill and we compromised. No one got everything that they wanted and we were able to we passed the c. R. In december and need to do a c. R. For several weeks. It takes us a length of time to put the bills together and then we can hammer out what the differences are. That is all. I am ready to sit down any time, any place, anywhere to begin this process, that is because what is contained in the 12 Appropriations Bills is every service, every resource that the American People whether it is liheap, education, transportation, National Security resides, we are the only place in which all of this resides so if we can sit down and begin to hammer out the compromise that we need to go forward thats where we need to go. And im happy at any time. I have to leave but answer any questions as to any of this. Mr. Cole we understand you have an engagement. Any questions for the gentlelady . Thank you for making the effort to be here. And the gentlelady is excused. I have a few more questions. Mr. Neguse i thank the Ranking Member for her service and safe travels. I do have a couple of substantive questions on both of the bills. First chairman diazbalart, i want to ask a couple of questions about the state ops appropriations bill. You made a comment in your opening, which i agree with that the need for the United States to i dont want to misquote you but getting serious about countering china. And what i am curious about there are a number of decisions that the Appropriations Committee and your subcommittee have made with respect to how you are prioritizing a variety of different programs within the state department and operated by the state department that i respectfully disagree with. Just by way of example, do you know who is the continent of africas largest trading partner today . Mr. Diazbalart its china. Mr. Neguse its china. The budget cuts the u. S. African Development Foundation 30 billion 30 million, 15 million below 2023. And i guess what im wondering how you make the case that entity which obviously serves a Critical Role in fostering that trade relationship, that broader point is you dont want to creed the cede the International Trade to china since they are the largest trading partner, how do you bridge that gap there . Mr. Diazbalart thank you for that important question. And youre right, its a dangerous world and much more dangerous world after the fiasco in afghanistan. So it is a dangerous world. As i mentioned and you are right in my opening statement, we have made some tactical decisions. Cutting funding for agencies that we found not to be very efficient or very effective and then prioritize focus on specifically the issue. 3. 4 billion foreign assistance programs and activities in support of the global indopacific strategy and provided additional 1 billion to advance the United States National Security interests in the indopacific. One billion more than President Biden did. I think it is a good discussion to figure out what we do even more. What we are doing in this bill which is a lot stronger with less money than the president , then thats a conversation that we should probably have with him. This bill does a lot more to Counter China than the president could do while he is trying to spend a lot more money. And if you allow me, sir. I mentioned that not to be a jerk but one of the things that caught me off guard is this was not by some individual member out there, but the leadership of the appropriation committee, democratic leadership actually criticizees my bill for cutting funds that go directly to the communist party of china, which we are doing. Mr. Neguse as a broader debate, i think some of our colleagues might take the view or the position that none of these investments are necessary and that perhaps the programs are just more broadly believe that is not something that the United States should be pursuing. I dont think thats your argument is my sense. You may put it in a different way. South americas largest trading partner is china. That concerns you, i assume. And you dont believe that is in the best interest of the United States. The point im trying to make, this budget, it cuts the Interamerican Foundation 24. 5 million below 2023 levels. Designed to foster trade relations. If you are concerned, as i am about countering china and you are concerned as imabout china becoming the largest trading partner for south america, explain to me the reasoning behind cutting the very program that is designed to mitigate against that. Mr. Diazbalart i thank you for your question and your interests. I think we all know that theres a lot of duplication of effort and waste in money. What we have done is precisely focus on those things that we can show are the most effective and yes, we are shaving in some cases and other cases defunding in areas that cannot show results, which is what i mentioned for example. Its hard to believe. And i have to admit i was shocked when we saw there was money going to pay back loans. And some of these loans that got u. S. Taxpayer money that go abroad, some of these counties are using those funds to pay back loans that they owe china. That is the kind of thing and i look forward to working on this, because we are on the same page. Again if i may be so bold, china is a serious threat. I think we are on the same page there. The question is, i think you would agree that assuming every dollar and every institution that we are funding is effective, it is not. What we have done with a Southern California pell is look at where scalpel and looking at areas that are looking at china and with a lot less money and i would argue. But im grateful for your interest in an area that is a primary area of National Security. Mr. Neguse i appreciate the colloquy. And i certainly support the number of investments that you identify within the broader bill with respect to the indopacific strategy and i will close with this. One more question for mr. Joyce. The broader concern i have is if i said we are all committed to this goal of countering china in my mind, cutting the budget of these various programs that are designed to ensure that china does not continue to serve as the largest trading partner in latin america or it not be the largest trading partner for africa. China has far more embassees rooted in most countries on the planet. I dont understand the National Security imperative given that desire of cutting the empassy investments here within this budget. Thats the extent the programs arent working as well as they should. Any way. Ill leave it there. Mr. Joyce, only question i have with respect to the underlying budget and perhaps you can expand on a bit of this as well, i want to make sure i am understanding this right. From what i glean from the text the budget bill cuts by 232 million requested funding to combat terrorism and cybersecurity and my understanding is that mr. Cuellar introduced an amendment during the full Committee Markup to essentially reverse that cut. Is that right . And if so, can you help us understand the reasoning behind that amendment failing . Mr. Joyce the reason we are cutting different areas and we cut 3 billion in spending similar to chairman diazbalart focused on those programs that actually work. And make it work. And i understand and appreciate my dear friend the Ranking Member was coming from and i understand it is important opportunities there to make sure we secure our cyber space because its something we are getting attacked on on a daily bases by rogue players and something we want to invest in a more comprehensive effort and want to see results for the investments we are making to keep our cyber space secure. Mr. Cuellar mr. Neguse your amendment was to mitigate it would have funded c. B. P. , 691 million which was the request it was made and not included in the mark. Mr. Cuellar im hoping that the committee will make my amendment in order and have that debate on the floor and see what happens. Taking money away from the border wall and put it into a more targeted area where we can look at cybersecurity and more money for technology at the ports of entry because people think most of the drugs that come into the u. S. They think comes in between ports, 90 of the meth, cocaine and fentanyl come in through ports of entry. We added more money there but we need to do a lot more to target there. I say extend the perimeter out. I know you feel that the you say it is the experts, but if you look at the Border Patrol union 10 years ago they thought the wall was a waste of dollars. I asked every Border Patrol chief from owe bush, obama and trump and asked them how much time does the wall buy you . All of them have said from a few seconds to a few minutes depending who wants to cross it. There are is a more targeted way to put money at the points of entry and the check points, Border Patrol checkpoints so thats where most of the drugs are coming in. 86 of the people coming in stuffed with drugs are u. S. Citizens and we want to secure the border. We want to find a more efficient way of doing that. Mr. Neguse as evidenced by your evidence. In any event, with that, i would say thank you to the witnesses recognizing that you came here on short notice and understanding the unique circumstance of this particular hearing. And i yield back. Mr. Cole the gentlelady from minnesota is recognized for any questions she may have for the panel. Mrs. Fischbach i dont have any questions and i appreciate these bills went through the Committee Process and there was input and i think chairman i thank chairman joyce and chairman diazbalart for being here. I yield back. Mr. Cole the gentlemanfrom kentucky is recognized. Mr. Massie he said this was geared that the situation that were in. [laughter] i would say its anything but geared. And the engineer solution would be the 12 appropriations bill. And i think thats what we are here doing today. A shutdown is not something you engineer. And so i applaud the gentleman here for bringing an appropriations bill in front of us for the rules committee and the people who worked to get to this solution. And i look forward to voting on all of the amendments. We are going to have a robust debate. Going to be accelerated but will be thorough and a lot of amendments. The chairman thinks they produced the perfect product and needs no amendments whatsoever but im sure we will have several and several of them will be democrat amendments. The other things is there is a way to avoid this situation, the 12 separate bills is the engineering solution, but even engineers acknowledge there are humans involved and they have to have contingencies and when you run out of time it was things you didnt anticipate. Sometimes you need a little more time. And my solution for next year, i proposed this a year ago and we didnt do it but ill propose it while we are in the heat of the moment, on january 3, after we set our rules and elect a speaker, we wont do it the next january 3, first day we are in business the next year, we will say when we get to september 30 and havent done our homework lets automatically have a c. R. Kick in and do it at 99 . Shouldnt be an incentive not to do the good work that you have done but there is a disincentive to have a c. R. Do it in january, we would be calmly talking about these bills knowing that there is a parachute on the plane. So thats the engineering solution. But i applaud you all for bringing these bills forward and folks in the g. O. P. Conference who found a way for all of us to getting this done. I dont have any questions for you and i yield back. Mr. Cole the gentleman from South Carolina is recognized for any questions he may have for the panel. Mr. Norman we should have had these done by now. We should have. Should have been done as thomas says, early in the year. My solution would be and i think the good thing of what we are doing here now, you will see these out quicker than the final days next year. The only calf quat i would add, thomas, if theyre not, every salary of 535 members gets cut 10 a day. Lets see how quick we get the appropriations out. Some of the statements that have shocked me, walls dont work, i think the doors to this facility work keeping people out. Doors in our houses keep people out. The wall is paid for. I have been to the border. So that to me makes common sense. Secondly, concern about the Border Patrol agents, this administration has handcuffed the Border Patrol agents. Go talk to them. I did actually after when covid was hit, they were concerned about baby sitting then. What is even more unacceptable is you see the government cutting the wires, the lines to prevent the illegals from coming across and whats more absurd and i cannot believe you wouldnt put up a fight over this administration giving Social Security numbers to illegals. Not only is that unconstitutional, thats not fair to the American People. Now the good news, among your own members, when your members get booed in new york city, you are the boost are getting more stlonger and louder. We are in a National Security crisis right now. I just want to thank you for your work that you have done on this. Its unamerican what has happened that was not here 3 1 2 years ago. All the responsibility of the administration, press secretary to dodge questions on this and say anything else is other people are to blame. Its like food for the gas prices going up. It is absolutely absurd. Which one of you said there were payments cut to china out of this . Mario, did you say that . Mr. Diazbalart one of the things that was shocking. We have gone after we have looked at every penny and every dollar and what we found is that sometimes directly and sometimes indirectly. U. S. Taxpayer money spent abroad and i mentioned one case of money from International Lending institutions going to countries, those countries use that money to pay back loans to china. And so needless to say, sir, heck no. Heck no. As far as i am concerned, i dont think we should be spending anything anywhere that goes to china, the communist party of china and secondary fashion for things like that. The thing that i was respectfully shocked about which i submitted for the record is that in the press release, democratic leadership that i have Great Respect for the committee, they did a press release criticizing the bill. They only picked out a few items. And among the things they chose to highlight that they are objecting to is when we cut funds, as i mentioned either to the communist party of china, to china, but also to institutions affiliated with those countries, north korea, cuba, venezuela. And i said in front of this committee that is in the category of you cant make this stuff up. Mr. Norman we have to highlight statements like you just made to the American People. The other thing, the dollars you allocated to deportation assuming we get out of this is the only way to right the wrong. Thanks for your work on it. And i have no further questions. Mr. Cole thank you very much. My good friend from texas, mr. Roy, is recognized for questions. Mr. Roy i appreciate you for being here and my friend from kentucky in getting these bills produced, i wish we were doing this in june or july. We should have been in here and i think we should have stayed here in august but we are here and hopefully we can do our work this week and get where we need to go. Quick question, our colleague is inquiring our engagement in africa. Would the gentleman agree that chinas engagement worldwide is not necessarily resulted in the highest quality product. Wall street journal had an expose to which their products are falling apart. The Infrastructure Projects in other words, a race to beat china for beating chinas sake and their engagement abroad doesnt mean we need to appropriate dollars. Rather we should do our work at the right level with the right quality and do our thing and then essentially let china is that something you read in the journal recently . Mr. Diazbalart they go not to be helpful but not only make a profit but go in there to raid and just pull out. So you are absolutely right. And which is why this bill emphasizees standing up to china. One of the things i did not mention, chinas treatment and interNational Organizations as a quote, unquote, developing nation. Its about time we start taking lets take china seriously and about time that we dont continue to send money just because we have always done it. Its not only by the way, sir, we are limiting funds for institutions that are ineffective, but do so is not only helping our bottom line, it is helping our National Security interests because in some cases we are funding institutions that are not only not helping us, they are actually hurting our National Security interests so i couldnt agree with you more. And as you know, china not only does that, but they also bribe and they bribe heads of state. They allow the entire world im assuming they never bribed high people in this country, bribe heads of state, family members of heads of state. Thats how they do business so we have to take china seriously and this bill does it. Mr. Roy gold bars, for example. Your work has resulted in reducing funding or eliminating funding to some of the things like United Nations Population Fund which feeds into chinas horrific policy involving abortion and sterile isation. The human rights council, but they have august representatives such as cuba, china, sudan, algeria, the kinds of things kinds of places that are not known for their track record with respect to human rights. And so reducing funding for these organizations puts a stark comparison, the current regime, the current white house, the current majority in the senate and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle here would prefer to continue to at higher levels these entities. The world health organization. Notwithstanding that we saw with respect to covid, for example, i believe in this legislation you prohibit funds going to the Wuhan Institute of vierology. And and labs china, iran, russia, north korea. Vast majority of america wouldnt like us to play those reindeer games. Would you like to expound on the work you have done in establishing the priorities with reducing taxpayer dollars and being wasted. Mr. Diazbalart you have said it in a much morelle quent way but so many instances that you have to scratch your head and say are we funding that, we are. It is important to move these appropriation bills forward. Otherwise among the other things the other thing here which is very interesting. I know this is a sacred cow, but no sacred cow. We are spending this taxpayer money and wasting this taxpayer money on issues dealing with Climate Change and one of the things i have here which is not a huge issue and not real money is to make sure we have a study because to find out all that money has been going out, how much has that actually affected . I think we know the answer to that. Its not going to be much. What we are trying to do if i may so in very simple terms, going back to basics. This is National Security spending. As i said before, we try to help you, but efficiently. If you are an enemy and adversary. You are not going to like this bill. And yes im not shy about saying we are cutting spending, but those cuts are not that we are cutting spending. No. No. No. Because of how we are doing it, we are increasing our effectiveness to stand up against our adversaries and fight for our allies. Im proud of this bill. No bill is perfect. And the issues that you just brought up and if i repeat myself in the category, you just cant make that up, to be criticized and i am respectful because i do respect my colleagues but when i see criticism in writing that this is horrible and we are cutting funding for the wuhan lab for gain of research and institutions, my answer is you Better Believe that we are eliminating taxpayer money going to this wasteful and hurtful, hurtful issues because its just not wasted money but hurting our National Security. I am proud and passionate of the work that my colleagues have done on this bill. Mr. Roy i appreciate your work and prioritizing and tax dollars focused on our efforts here. We will have those conversations and continue those through the amendment process and the continuation of the development of this rule. But i appreciate that and i think thats a giant step forward. To my colleague, mr. Joyce and my colleague from texas, mr. Cuellar, turning to Homeland Security, you know, we talked about significant and i wont repeat things you said before about the state of the border and i know my friend from texas and all of us now in terms of the experience that we are feeling and facing on a daily basis on what we are seeing with respect to the abuse of migrants, i know my friend from texas is more than familiar with the dead bodies of migrants that we find on a daily basis. Just this morning of a 10yearold boy who drowned and his body was recovered in the rio grande. And this is reoccurring situation. And i know my friends district, we both have representation in and around san antonio and 53 human beings that died in a tractor trailer in the texas heat. And this is affecting our constituents, loss of loved ones, fentanyl poisoning, the sex trafficking trade and the story with reed oconnor and a man illegal immigrant who was here in baltimore and his wife and daughter were held for ray some unless he paid 23,000. This is becoming common glep place. This is not christian or compassion. I hope now with the eyes being opened whats going on in new york and other cities around the country, i hope our eyes are being opened to this reality and my friend from colorado said we have had hearings and looking at these facts, i have been talking about this issue for years and in this committee since january, and there has been a whole lot of eye rolling and disagreement about the fact that this is a heightened issue and a level that needs to be addressed. Actual consequences with respect to human beings, our lives and the tragedy. Having said that, what do on we do about it . Start with enormous applause and respect that my colleagues are putting together a Homeland Security package that has riders and important language in the bill that will take steps towards forcing this administration to do its job. I would hope my colleagues on the other side of the aisle would agree that it would be a nonpartisan truth that we hold the executive Branch Accountable and i have said this before and i introduced legislation when trump was in the white house to do that. I would hope my colleagues on the other side of the aisle would join us now to do that. Because this secretary and this president are blaint taintly disregarding this and a problem that must be dealt with now. Not going into a president ial election what may or may not occur but sitting here today. I applaud that this appropriations bill takes significant steps to deal with the c. B. P. That is being used and take people and process them into the United States. Yielding another record number. Well over 200,000 encounters. My friend in texas knows these facts. The swelling numbers in eagle pass that we are seeing right now, people in open containers and train cars. People getting overrun, filling up our hospitals and our schools. Law enforcement overrun in texas. I dont know how much is too much for my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to shut down the abuse of the border. And that is the simple reality and talking down the government. Why dont we do our job to shut down a wide open border and force it into compliance with the law . Thats the question and every american is watching. And i know some of my democratic colleagues are recognizing that reality. Finally whether we are recognizing it enough and have a seat at the table, i am happy to talk any time. We introduced legislation together. Happy to. But im going to say from my position, it begins and ends with the president of the United States respecting the laws of the United States and enforcing the laws of the United States. And thats not happening, which gets to the crux of this and i have to ask when we talk about what we are trying to accomplish here, we are trying to pass language and i would hope my colleagues on the other side of the aisle would agree that the funds can only be used to carry out the law, that the funds can only be used not to dump people into the United States for for example for as my friend from texas referenced, asylum that is counter to the question of whether or not an individual is here because of a persecution based on religious beliefs or some other category we have put into the law, which everyone knows was done from a faithful or christian perspective of humanity and compassion to give someone a door if they are being chased and persecuted, but not as a big kneeon neon sign and say walk right in and thats what this administration is doing and Everybody Knows it. It is not good to the migrants or the people we represent. I wonder if the chairman of the subcommittee could explain a little bit more about the specifics of what you are trying to accomplish with the language in the bill currently. Mr. Joyce thank you for that request. What we have done is tied the language let me back up. First let me back up. What a c. R. Does is give the same money that they have been getting in policies and procedures that all of us dislike. When we put down this appropriation bill, we meaningfully tied the verb yag to the fact the imenttation of h. R. 2 and process people at the border and add more beds in detention. And have alternative detentions that stay in place. Sixweek thing, check them off and there they go. We want to set in place those type of mechanics so that if the administration wont put the word out, the people on the street if you. Mr. Williams pa put the word out that the border is going to shut down and not welcome here and detained and do what is necessary to shut down the border and follow the law. We are a a nation of immigrants and nation of laws. They dont have to live in conflict. They need to make application. But to come here and give Free Entrance into the country isnt right for those people who did their job and filed the proper procedures. Our bill is tied to making sure the border is shut. That fentanyl and i agree with you roy, if some country was killing kids, we should be declaring war on it. And declaring war and i dont give a damn its coming from china or mexico. Whoever had a hands on it, killing our kids, its not right and not fair. We have lost friends, family and folks because of this. If people dont see that, we will have to force them to see it through this bill. Mr. Roy i yield. We get daily calls now. A good friend of mine, his son, 26 shot in the back by an illegal. South carolina is far from mexico and put in cities all other country. Six Close Friends of mine getting shot and killed not just police officer. This was a social worker that got murdered by an illegal alien. I dont know what its going to take for this president to put a stop to it. Mr. Roy the district i represent is 100 miles from the border. Mr. Gonzales is on the border, mr. Cuellar is on the border and we have visited many times down there. I yield to the gentleman. Mr. Joyce we mr. Cuellar we are on the same page. We dont want open borders, we have to figure out how we get there. But takes input from all of us. We have smart folks on the republican side but we have folks on the dside that can contribute that and we are asking how do you get there. You talk about the wall. Somebody had said that mexico was going to be paying for the wall. We could use the monies to provide more security at the border. Most drugs will come in. 90 to 94 , fentanyl will come in through the points of entry. Why not jam where the fentanyl is coming from. Through points of entrio the pacific sides of mexico. Lets jam it. If you want to stop drugs, look at the ports of entry and you want to stop tokes, you have to have it at the border. We are on the same page. But people come in many ways. And they actually come from canada, too. But no one is talking about a wall there but its the number one place. When we talk Border Security, lets be smart how we secure the border itself, thats all. I emphasize, i dont know if youve been hearing what ive been saying, we ought to put more resources outside the one yard line called the u. S. Border. Today, the house is said to me. Current government funding expires on saturday. Right now, the chamber is coming in for members speeches. The speaker the house will be in order. Pursuant to the order of the house of january 9, 2023, the chair will now recognize members from the lists submitted by the majority and minority leaders for morning hour. The chair will atlanta wreck atlanta recognition between the parties, all time shall be equally allocated between the parties