Transcripts For CSPAN Hearing 20240704

You think this is just a Community Center . It is way more than that. Comcast creating wifi enabled lift centers so students can get the tools to be ready for anything. Comcast supports cspan as Public Service along with these other Television Providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. Next, a at staffing challenges in Law Enforcement at the southern border. The Homeland Security Inspector General says Border Agents are suffering from low morale. He testified before a House Oversight subcommittee. [background sounds] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible] Foreign Affairs will come to order. Everyone welcome. Without objection, representative connolly of virginia and representative ivy of maryland are waived onto the subcommittee for the purpose of questioning the witnesses at todays hearing. Without objection, the chair may do declare a recess e at any time. I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening statement. On day one of his administration, President Biden signaled to the world through words and actions that our borders are open, and so they were. Our country has since watched the crisis along our southwest border devolve into a catastrophe, a humanitarian and National Security cat my. Catastrophe. The deteriorating conditions along the southwest border and mismanagement of resources have harmed Law Enforcement and made existing staffing challenges even worse. Just last month the department of Homeland Security office of the Inspector General issued a report examining how Law Enforcement and customs and Border Protection and immigration and customs, examining how Law Enforcement and customs and Border Protection and immigration, Customs Enforcement have been negatively impacted by historically high levels of illegal immigration and other operational challenges. For this audit, the dhs office of the Inspector General surveyed over 9,000 dhs Law Enforcement personnel within i. C. E. And cbp. They collected information there Border Patrol agents who protect our border from illegal entries, office of Field Operation officers who guard our points of entry, enforcement and removal operation officers who enforce immigration laws and Homeland Security investigation agents who investigate crossborder criminal activity. What they found is so shocking. 88 of Law Enforcement personnel who were spotted said their work location was not adequately prepared and staffed during migrant surgingses. 71 of cbp personnel and 61 of i. C. E. Personnel stated that their current work location was not add adequately prepared and staffed even during normal operations, but theres nothing normal about the Current Border catastrophe. As noted in the i. G. s report, migrant encounters at its southwest border have risen from approximately a little under a million in fiscal 2019 to 2. 5 million in 2022. This fiscal year through the end of april, cbp has already made 1. 4 million encounters with 1. 2 million of those coming from Border Patrol agent apprehensions of illegal border crossers. Each of these encounters represents Law Enforcement resources expended in arresting and processing those individuals, and those resources are being used up at the expense of enforcement. The Inspector Generals report highlights a 300 increase in the number of known got withaways gotaways, meaning migrant withs who evade apprehension entirely. In fiscal year 2022 compared to 2019. Last year there were more than 600,000 known gotaways recorded by cbp. In one Border Patrol station reviewed by the Inspector Generals audit, 15 of the gotaways over a a 5day period evaded apprehension simply because no agents were available to respond. These think about that. I mean, people are showing up at the southern border even though we mow theyre there, we dont have anybody who can show up and process these people. These challenges have left the men and women on the front lines of this crisis cover whenned and stretched to their limits. To meet mission requirements, dhs implements stopgap measures like increased overtime and temporary details to exacerbate staffing challenges in the long term by roding morale and by eroding morale. Today we hear from Inspector General cafari on his offices findings about the reality of the problem, how dhs is a managing these staffing challenges and recommendations to solve the staffing crisis. Since 2016d 2016, the Government Accountability office have issued 25 reports examining staffing issues at our border, but 80 of the recommendations have been closed without tangible results at dhs. In fact, dhs did not concur with one of the three recommendations in this report, appearing not even will be dog to be willing to acknowledge the impact of temporary details and overtime on the work force. We must hold dhs accountable to enforce immigration laws and facilitate lawful trade and travel, and that means dhs must successfully manage Law Enforcement resources and support the men and women who carry out these essential functions. I want to thank the Inspector General for appearing today, and i look forward to working with his office to insure continued robust investigation of d health care s. Dhs. Ill tell you, ive been at the border several times. Last time i was down there was two months ago. It was shocking, the degree to which we did not have enough people to deal with particularly wouldbe gotaways coming across the border, and thats why we have this drug crisis in our country. But in any event, in any event, id like to recognize the Ranking Member, garcia, for the purpose of making his opening statement. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. And i want to thank you for keeping this important hearing. I want to just start by just with noting that i hope we can all commend the Bidenharris Administration for their actions to prevent a serious disorder at the border following the expiration of title 42 which i believe was the right decision. As a proud if immigrant myself and a patriotic american, weve certainly got to focus on the border but also have a legal pathway to let people continue to come to this country and be part of our experience. We know that immigrants make our country stronger, and were a nation of immigrants. Congressional democrats and President Biden have taken clear actions to improve Border Security. We have provided unprecedented resources to the men and women who protect our borders, and President Biden has implemented numerous policies to bolster the health and wellbeing of our agents of Border Security. Republicans, on the other hand, have is called the de to defund our federal Law Enforcement agencies claiming often times and weapon nicinging them to further political agendas. We know we have a possibility to support the wellbeing of all federal employees, and as mayor of long beach, california, i was proud to have the support of our local police department. Today im glad were addressing concerns of federal Law Enforcement agencies, the work that they do is very important. But i believe we have a responsibility to support all federal employees who serve our country, and thats everything from dhs to the u. S. Postal service. However, today im very concerned that were holding a hearing today on the basis of a flawed report and with a witness with a problematic record. Now, mr. Cafari has repeatedly refused to comply with this committees requests for meetings and information, and he sought to block congressional oversight at every turn. It is actually ironic that we are dealing with a politicized report given his own Department Staff to morale challenges. In 2022, a letter was published that was drafted and i quote, concerned oig employees representing every Program Office at every grade revel. The letter level. The letter claimed the Inspector General, quote, no longer has the support of his work force, end quote. And the staff fear retaliation if they speak up about the multitude of issues at the office. Staff made e the startling claims that dhs oig, quote, will continue to fail under the i. G. s disastrous leadership, end quote. Now, the concerns about this witness go on and on from his resigning under earth ethical concern ethical concerns, delaying oversight reports and alerting and covering up critical investigatory facts. Now, we all know that the Inspector General is currently under investigation by the counsel of the Inspector General on integrity and efficiency. Rather than cooperate with legitimate oversight is effort, the Inspector General has filed a lawsuit in a desperate attempt to escape scrutiny or consequences for failures and transgressions. Now, it is unacceptable that the individual entrusted to investigate fraud, waste and abuse in our Third Largest executive department believes that he is above the law. Believes that his office is above scrutiny from congress and believes that he is beyond reproach for his own potential perpetrations of fraud if, waste and abuse. Now, under the Inspector Generals leadership, department of homeland office of Inspector General has developed a pattern of flawed and misleading investigations including a tail your to report Sexual Misconduct and harassment at dhs and a failure to investigate and disclose to congress missing secret service Text Messages from the january 6th insurrection. I would also like to briefly address the report on which this hearing is based, a report that is misleading, nonrepresentative of the broader agency and deeply flawed. The dhs office of Inspector General claimed that the purpose of their work was to gain insight into staffing. Instead, the report made sweeping generalizations about morale at cbp and i. C. E. The report has mathematical errors and misleading tables and graphs. Dhs oig can even stated their work was conducted in accordance with, quote, generally accepted government auditing standards with the exception of data reliability. I dont know about all of you, but with the exception of data reliability seems like a pretty big exception to me. Now, we need an i. G. In place whos able to perform audit work with objectivity and independence or well verve have the accountability have the accountability we deserve are this agency. We should expect better. I look forward to this hearing only for the opportunity for our members to raise longstanding concerns. We have serious challenges to address at our borders, and i look forward to Building Solutions to address them. Mr. Chairman, i yield back. Im pleased to introduce our witness today, joseph cafari was confirmed by the senate in the department of homeland to be the department of Homeland Securitys Inspector General this july of 2019. He was previously a policy adviser to the governor of arizona, served in the u. S. Air force and spent 20 years at the department of justice. In 2013 he retired from his position as assistant special agent in charge for the office of Inspector General this tucson, arizona. In tucson, arizona. I look forward to his testimony. I was down in tucson sector for, i think, the third time in the last four years, and ill tell you i am glad you are in that position and look forward to hearing, hearing from you in your testimony. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9g, the witness will please stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony youre about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god . I do. Let the record show the witness answered in the affirmative. We appreciate you being here today and look forward to your testimony but remind you that we have read your written statement and it will appear in full in the written record. As a reminder, please press the button on the microphone in front of you so that its on and the members can hear you. When you begin to speak, the light in front of you will turn green. After four minutes, the light will turn yellow, and when the red light comes on, your five minutes have expired. I recognize you to, please, begin your opening statement. Chairman grossman, Ranking Member garcia and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss critical oversight of dhs. Prior to my unanimous confirmation in 2019, i served more than 20 years with the department of justice i. G. In various offices along the southwest border. For 10 of those years until the establishment of dhs in 2003, doj i. G. Oversaw the immigration and that muchization Naturalization Service and its component, the u. S. Border patrol. Of i personally observed three operations in which ins detailed agents to the southwest border, and i investigated financial irregularities related to one of those operations. As i promised congress during my confirmation process as Homeland Security i. G. , i prioritized oversight of Border Security and immigration. My first visit to the southwest border was within two months of my confirmation, and since then ive personally traveled to the southwest border nine times to review dhs operations and border conditions. These trips have encompassed all nine Border Patrol sectors from san diego, california, to the Rio Grande Valley in texas. In addition, my senior staff or i have visited the Northern Borders of washington, michigan, new york, vermont and floridas maritime border. During my visits ive engaged with senior Law Enforcement and frontline personnel to better understand how dhs can enhance Border Security and fight corruption. Ive also received situational briefings from northcom, southcom, u. S. Army north regarding active and reserve components assisting at the southwest border. My testimony today will focus on cbp and i. C. E. s management of resources and discuss in our recentlypublished authority about the health and no to real of cbp and i. C. E. Weve conducted this audit to determine the extent do which dhs is effectively managing Law Enforcement staffing resources. Our audit work included analysis of attrition rates, succession plans and physical observations of 31 facilities. We also interviewed and surveyed Law Enforcement personnel. We determined cbp and i. C. E. s current approach to staffing is neither effective nor viable long term. Despite greater workloads, Staffing Levels at both agencies have remained relatively flat since 2019. Cbp and i. C. E. Have relied on the use of temporary duty assignments, overtime shift work to Surge Staffing along the southwest border. The practice that dates back to at least 1994 with the creation of the ins Natural National border strategy. Although cbp and i. C. E. Annually assess their staffing needs, Neither Agency has assessed the impact of these details on their operations. Cbp and i. C. E. Have initiated programs focused on the wellbeing of their agents and officers, both components could benefit from a more strategic approach for resource allocation. We herald from more than we heard from more than 9,000 Law Enforcement personnel. That represents 16 of the 57,00o we surveyed. Our analysis of the survey comments indicated that many recipients felt that current staffs has negatively impacted their health and morale. Cbp and i. C. E. Cannot continue to use temporary duty assignments and overtime shift work effectively to meet the challenges of the southwest with border. We made three recommendations to help dhs strategically assess the issues we identified. Dhs concurred with two of these recommendations and does not concur with one. In total during my tenure, we published 51 reports and made 145 recommendations specifically aimed at improving dhs southwest border ops. Im very proud of the quality and quantity of the work by more than 700 professional career dhs employees have produced under my leadership. As ive reported since the fall of 2021, dhs continues to delay and deny work ig access to information oig access to information dhs is required to provide to us and that we need to do our jobs. I remain hopeful dhs will improve their response i haveness to our request for investigation so that we can continue to provide congress and the public robust, timely oversight like that being featured in todays hearing. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my prepared remarks. I look forward to the subcommittees questions. Thank you. Right on the button. Ill give you a few questions. Law enforcement staffing at the southwest border is facing a systemic crisis, one that the department of Homeland Security doesnt have a coherent plan to address. Why did you decide to initiate this report, and what are is some of the Biggest Challenges our Law Enforcement agents and officers face at the southwest border that your report found . Mr. Chairman, thank you. So starting in around march of 2021 when it became safe to travel postcovid, i began to visit the southwest border again. I began to hear from Law Enforcement personnel and senior staff that there were morale issues impacting the work force. And those issues related to the deployment of Border Patrol primarily from the Northern Tier offices to the southwest border. I asked my staff to conduct a review, and they did so within a year and a half, and they completed the report in may of this year. What were some of the mental and physical consequences of the current work conditions of dhs Law Enforcement officers reported that dhs Law Enforcement officers reported . According to the Law Enforcement personnel who actually have been doing these details, the constant flux of being transferred to the southwest border e from the home station for 3060 days provides a lot of turmoil to the agents and their families. In some cases they dont know where on the southwest border theyre going to be detailed or for how long theyre going to be there. Once they complete their initial assignment, they return back to their home station where theyre back working where they were originally assigned, and then 3060 days later they get notify again that theyre going back to the southwest border. So its a constant churn. Its the unknown effects. And according to the respondents, they have developed an inability to continue to do what they consider to be their primary Law Enforcement function. One of the issues addressed in your report is temporary the detailing which is the practice of temporarily assigning agents and officers to different locations for a period of time before returning to their permanent duty station. Many Border Patrol agencies and office of Field Operation officers can be detailed from their duty locations to awith custody and processing of migrants. One Border Patrol agent said in your report that agents were provide ising clothing, diapers, formula and other domestic services, noting that the job feels more like social worker duties rather than Law Enforcement. How can dhs improve their detailing practices to make sure the detailees are actually performing jobs within their Job Description . Its a function of the first recommendation that we made to dhs that they did not concur with which was to hire an outside National Academy to makd develop a strategic staffing model so that dhs would be best, best be able to use the resources they have to the most effective benefit of the organization. Does the practice of temporary details leave home duty stations vulnerable or understaffed . According to the agents who responded, yes. There is a gap went you pull resources from one area to another. No question. Anybody whos down at the border knows that. What are the current staff thing levels at i. C. E. And customs and Border Patrol compared to their authorize levels . I believe i dont know the exact number, chairman. Id have to get that number to you. Okay. How many Border Patrol agents and office of Field Operation officers do we need to address the issues we are dealing with today . Thats a matter for the department to decide based on the recommendation number one that we made to have an outside entity take a look at the organization to have a strategic staffing model. Ill ask you, in a 2year period we went from about 20,000 people coming across the southern border to about 220,000 per month. Isnt that kind of part of the big problem, that they havent adjusted the number of agents for the huge number of people who are coming over here . There certainly has been a significant influx of migrants coming into the southwest border. The Staffing Levels for i. C. E. And cbp although i dont know the actual numbers, have remained relatively flat. So as the okay. How does the turnover rate within dhs Law Enforcement agencies compare with other Government Agencies . Their turnover rate from what i i recall from our report is consistent with that of other agencies in the federal government. Okay. Okay, very good. Well now call on mr. Garcia for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Ca finishing ari, i want to look at the report you recently publishedded about morale among people working at the southern border. Now, an exemption of your report shows examination of your report shows its exceptionally fraud, and im stun thed you and your Team Released this report. It does not meet the standards required of inspectors general or, quite frankly, Data Collection of any kind. You can see on this poster behind me one of the first points highlighted in the report is that it is based on a, and i quote, a nonstatistical survey. I want to read that again, a nonstatistical survey. You might as well at this point be doing a twitter poll, which is the same exact thing as a nonstatistical survey. I want to also again quote from the report, it cannot be projected to the entire population of cbp and i. C. E. Law enforcement officers and agents. Again, a nonstatistical survey. In fact, on the same page of this paragraph, you explain that only 16 of border Law Enforcement personnel actually responded to the survey that the report is based on. And so we have 16 respondents of which with nonstatistical of the actual, those that are in the department. And so this is really flawed just from the go, and i just want to make sure that we highlight that. Its very important as far as this committees work. Now, throughout the report then you begin to cherry pick responses from individual Law Enforcement officers to bolster your conclusions. Now, last week our Committee Staff had a chance to sit and have actual interviews with Border Patrol sec editor chiefs. Border patrol agent martinez of the laredo sector said if you speak to 20 different agents, youll get 20 different opinions. Some guys are out there just loving their job. It should be pretty obvious to anyone that theres a diverse set of opinions in any organization, and if you dont actually conduct statistical analysis, youre not actually going to get a real report. Now, mr. I. G. , did you interview chief patrol agents at cbp for this report . If. With the exception of the data reliability. Im going to read that one more time. According to generally accepted government auditing standards with the exception of data reliability, you agree you need reliable data to do an audit . I believe we need reliable data. We asked for that reliable data from the department. They were unable to provide to us. So the answer is yes. I think we need reliable data to do an audit. Yet the data reliability of this report cannot be verified and you actually say this in the report. So in other words, we so we do not know the data he relied upon is sufficient to support any of the findings of this report. Essentially this report is not verified and should not be accessible to anyone to make any sort of conclusions. I know, sir, that the president that apology to this position also had a problem with facts and data. So this is not a surprise. I want to go back to the report itself. The title of the report makes no mention of the staffing issues at cbp and i. C. E. Which you allege with the entire purpose of this work. The attrition data and report is full of basic meth errors. There are errors the basic, basic meth all throughout the report. The data is not reliable and a small subsection of folks were actually interviewed. We can all agree that safely establish means humane immigration policies in at the border. We know are challenging task for every administration but flawed reports on and make those tasks harder. This report is a disservice to our Law Enforcement personnel. Instead of to identify and solve issues affecting morale, our attention is now forced to correct mistakes and correct a report that is deeply flawed. Mr. Mr. Chairman, with that i yield back. Mr. Gosar. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you very much for being here, inspector. In 2021 the department of health and Human Services took over 2 billion designated for other purposes such as replenishing medical supplies and coronavirus testing and moved it to house and care for illegal alien children. The executive took advantage of the recently terminated covid19s National Emergency to spend money on programs unrelated to covid19. Are you concern the department of Homeland Security may be using National Emergency act money to redirect spending contracted caucuses intention . Sir, i think you mentioned health and Human Services initially . Yes. And that a proper Homeland Security, its primary fema is responsible for the disbursement of covid related funding. So we have a number of audits. In fact, we have created a special fraud unit to investigate criminal fraud related to pandemic relief money. So has Homeland Security department of Homeland Security been forthcoming to you on how theyre spending taxpayer money . Based on questions weve asked we have been provided with information, and we are evaluating that information. Can you tell me the most egregious example of wasteful spending by dhs that you have uncovered . There is a whole host of audits that weve completed, at a dont have one off the top of my head to give you at the moment. Were contracts that are properly . There have been a number of audits that we have conducted to look at i. C. E. Im sorry, i dhs unsolicited nobid solesource contracting. We publish a report about that last year and weve also identified in one instance where an unsolicited contract was awarded to accompany to provide a company to provide housing and that company also received an award from health and Human Services. The very beginning i i tald about the status of children. What are the steps assume these children . How many have we lost . Dhs responsibility is to care and feed for the children who are in their custody during the term that they are in their custody, which is primarily fr a short period of time of about 72 hours. And dhs then releases the unaccompanied minors to health and Human Services to the office of refugee resettlement. It then turns into a health and Human Services responsibility. And we lost a bunch. Link back to Something Else or to uncover the fact the secret service erased Text Messages in aftermath of january 6th m 2021. After you requested electronic you medications, could you please expound on your offices work in this area . One. Number two, why in a world with the secret service erased Text Messages . Thats over two. Doesnt make suspicious the something to hide . And how many requests for documentation preservation were there . I know of at least five preservation notices. And to do this come from . Four of those were issued by majority members of Oversight Committees in the last congress. Starting on january 16 of 2021. Four were from a committee or multiple committees, and one from our office will be opened an audit of the events of january 6th. Can you, any idea why the secret service under preservation notices would erase emails . We have been unable to get answer to that question. Thats pretty incredible. You mention the was 100 increase in isis notices to appear from october 2020 to april 2022. Could you explain what is in an nta and are often too illegal alien show up for their Court Hearings . I believe dhs discontinued the use of notices to appear in teays in november of 2021. They began to issue notices to report which required migrants to report to an Immigration Court on a predetermined date. The Immigration Court as you know is within the jurisdiction of the department of justice and the Immigration Court would retain statistics on noshows or individuals who actually do show for their court date. I want to thank you for your information. I think the other side is very particular because this doesnt point for a good to them so i yield back. Congressman ratcliffe. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Mr. Cuffari, your duty under the Inspector General act is to immediately report flagrant and serious abuses that are taking place. You were aware at least as early as may of 2021 that the secret service had erased thousands of Text Messages that were sent before and during the january 6th violent attack on the capitol of the congress and the vice president. But you failed to notify congress for 14 months, for your in two months that the secret service was refusing to comply with your requests for information. So why didnt you immediately report as your statutory bound to do these serious and flagrant failures to answer your questions about the disappearance of thousands of texts that were sent during january 6 . Just of the record is clear, congressman, we were not informed by the secret service on the date that you described in 21. In fact, at no time in 21 where we inform that secret service had deleted and was no longer able to retrieve Text Messages on cell phones owned by the secret service. So when did you become aware of that . In february i believe a 2022. Well, we have documents showing thats just six weeks after the initial request for documents from the secret service, you canceled requests to the secret service for phone records and Text Messages. Why did you do that . If i recall correctly, and i mentioned during my prepared remarks here, dhs was delaying or denying us access to relevant information. Did you report that the congress at that point or asked for a report to congress . I was working with the Senior Leadership of the department to free up or to pry loose information that the department was withholding from us. In fact, i met with the secretary of Homeland Security in about september or october of 21, explain to him that we were having delays in getting information. And the secretary saw fit to publish a memo in which he directed all the employees in the department to cooperate with our office. We subsequently received a tranche of documents from the department. They were basically emails that we had been waiting for eight months to receive your i think there were about 700,000 emails. Yeah. What i dont understand is your office revived the request that you nullified six weeks after originally making it. Five months later, in december 2021 is what the paper trail reveals. But what i dont understand is your statutory duty to immediately inform congress about this flagrant abuse. I mean, we are talking about the worst violent insurrection against congress in history of the United States, and the secret service is not cooperating with your request for information. Why did you not think that you need to immediately Alert Congress to that fact . I was working with Senior Leadership and the department of Homeland Security to get the records we were lawfully entitled to receive. They were also, the department was also under four preservation notices by congressional Oversight Committees, last congress. And to my knowledge the department never informed congress that itself had deleted the messages, nor were they ever asked but thats the role of the Inspector General. Thats why we have Inspector General. In june 2022 you publish or semi annual report where there was going to be a reference to the secret service is obstruction of this investigative path, and she removed that. Why was the reference to the secret service obstruction deliberately deleted from the june 22 semi annual report of the Inspector General . I believe our first notification that congress was in the fall of 21. In our semi annual report will be described delays that the department was doing to us and preventing us from receiving requested information. Did you sign off on the decision to remove this reference from the report . I dont know when that reference was. In june 2022 there was going to be a reference to secret service obstruction of questioning about the disappearance of the texts. That was deliberately removed. Did you sign off on that the liberal removal . I signed off on the removal and i signed a letter specifically to the january 6th Oversight Committee, and to this Oversight Committee. Why did you remove it . [inaudible] your time is expired. I think whats going on at the border is the biggest crisis this contrast to deal with today. Today. And its not surprising that when the number of people coming into this country has increased by a factor of 11, would have a tremendous impact on the morale of the Border Patrol. I realize, mr. Cuffari, originally was appointed by donald trump and some people never going to get over that. But our focus today should be on whats going, we could have an billion hearings on the southern border but today were going to focus on the morale of the Border Patrol and what effect this increase by a factor of ten the number of people coming across has. Im down on the border many times. I can assure you if you go down there the Border Patrol agents will tell you all sorts of things. But in any event next we have mr. Chairman, i just want to add the question set up in as a four and a statement on our side have been all within the scope of the hearing. I think were merely pointed out flaws and issues within a witness in the witnesses statements and so i just wanted to add i think the line of questioning of ours have been very reasonable within the scope of the hearing. Mr. Higgins. Thank you, mr. Chairman. My, my, my. Inspector general tafari, is one of the most honorable men ive ever met. I that interactions with many in seven years of Congressional Service in my country. He is a a rare combination of experience and intellect and honor and principle. You will always get a straight answer. I i hope americans listening to him today. Facing attack after attack after attack from the left. The man is not looking at notes. Its funny from said because he knows whats going on. Its no surprise the Biden Administration and my colleagues across the aisle dont like him. Because his honorable man that speaks the truth. Theres a lot of wailing and gnashing of the teeth over there. The issue with general cuffari is he is in actual investigator, not a political hack and he speaks the truth. Heres the problem though. In my colleagues launching these attacks against this good man face. Joe cuffari is a principled man come and tedious with personal attacks against him like something stuck to the bottom of his boot. Inspector general cuffari, you have been accused of conducting this survey. Survey of 9000 agencies were interested. My colleagues colleagues managed to leave that out. Act like you talk to 28 people. 9000 ages participated. In your report that you provided, you go on to a test to the quality of the survey which essentially amazing to america watching you came to the conclusion that these Border Agents that have been tasked with getting with the disintegration of our sovereignty at the southern border, they have been moved from all across the country to work the southern border, taken away from their primary Law Enforcement role to do housekeeping and social work. Your survey came to the conclusion amazingly that theres a problem with morale. They are folding themselves in half over there trying to impugn you as a man, and getting nowhere. America is watching. Let me ask you about these deployments, Inspector General cuffari. Deployments from across the country down to the southern border where agents were moved from where they lived and worked come with her family is, where the kids go to school, to go down to the southern border. Were those deployments voluntary or the agents ordered . In certain cases according to the agents and other employees of the department who were deployed, they were voluntary. And in others they were told to go. So could you clarify what that means . I know what it means. Im a veteran. An army veteran, a copper 12 years and you get volunteered chain of command tells you yeah, we need you to volunteer for this. So these guys are deployed for quite some time, an incredibly difficult circumstances. They love their country. They are serving their country. By and large they concur, but the longer they stay down there, the more it impacts themselves, their family, their morale, there esprit de corps, their units. I think its obvious that the system of moving people down there has been detrimental to the health and wellbeing of our agents. Its concerning that agents are not performing their primary Law Enforcement roles. Americas larger under the impression that we are moving Border Agents down there to enhance Law Enforcement. Is that the role that these agents are primarily performing, mr. Cuffari . The role that they were hired to do and the performance of their duties is to do with Law Enforcement, at least for patrol and the criminal investigators who were deployed there. What role of actually performing down there . They are doing some Law Enforcement but theyre also providing care and Welfare Services to the detained, and those individuals who they are processing. Thank you Inspector General. Thank you for your service. God bless you, sir. Stand strong. My time has expired, mr. Chairman. Yield. Thank you. Congressman lynch. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Mr. Cuffari, first, let me say that i been on this committee for 22 years, and have been involved in dozens and dozens and dozens of investigations. You know, from twentysomething trips to afghanistan, over 22 iraq, ukraine. There has been no member on this committee currently that is then more investigations and involved in this type of work longer than i have. And im honored to do it. Mr. Cuffari, i do want to say that i i relationship with the inspectors of general has during that 22 years that ive been on this committee has been a partnership. We rely heavily on our inspectors general to cooperate with us. Its been a good relationship, and i have dealt with probably three to four dozen different inspectors general over that 22 years, and and ive been proud to do it. I have to say that based on the evidence i have before me, our relationship with you is different. It is different. We have not had the cooperation and the relationship of trust that weve had with others, inspectors general. We have not had that with you. And i regret that. I dont diminish your service to your country or any other capacity. Im just talking about the facts of what has happened and whats going on. Are you familiar with the project on government oversight . Yes. Okay. The project on government oversight is a nonpartisan, independent, Nonprofit Group that we have worked with for more than the 22 years ive been here. I think they they started in the 1980s, and the been nothing short of honest and forthright. And i have worked with them in republican administrations and democratic administrations. And sometimes i agree with them, sometimes i dont, but they have been straightforward regardless of Whose Administration was in power at that time. Mr. Chairman, i want to ask for unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter from the project on government oversight, urging the president of the United States to remove Inspector General Joseph Cuffari from his position with the department of Homeland Security Inspector General. Okay. Mr. Cuffari, another group that we work with very closely and continue to is the council of inspectors general. And they are a group that not only does their own independent work but also polices other inspectors general. Am i correct in saying that you are currently under investigation by the council of inspectors general on integrity and efficiency . Is that correct, mr. Cuffari . You are correct, mr. Lynch. What is the basis of that investigation . Could you share that with us . Im uncertain since im under investigation, if i could share that any public setting. Id be happy to discuss it with you. They have made it, they have made it public so im not sure how private this is. There are several allegations, one as the Ranking Member of this full committee indicated, was your failure to properly notify congress of crucial information on the secret service erasure of Text Messages related to the january 6th attacks on this capital. That did happen, did happen. And i witness republicans and democrats running for their lives comfortably but who says that did not happen, just disabuse that notion. The relationship of trust that we have had with our inspectors general have not been continued. I want to yield my remaining time to the Ranking Member. Thank you, sir. Time is up. Go ahead, sir. All right. Kelley armstrong. Thank you, mr. Chair. Your report states that frequent opponent to the southern border are affecting Staffing Levels at the northern border. This is an important issue to my home state of north dakota hurt businesses rely on from both sides of the canadianu. S. Border commerce doesnt stop at 5 p. M. When cbp closes the port of entry. Crops still need to be played at substantial detours to operating facilities significantly rephrase cosper after years of short and operational hours, cbp final extended hours at three percenter intro to code on a trial basis but these hours are only temporary while cbp evaluates vehicular traffic which is not account for other ramifications including the transfer of goods and services. Lawful economic access to the United States should that be based on volume. It is a government basic duty to maintain the northern border. Drawn down at the northern border to beef up the southern port does not justify shutting down north dakotas economic sector. Dhs is not properly allocating resources, and we talk about these things in large dollar amount but im going to talk about what is actually in the grand scope of things of insignificant one. However, it would be significant at the northern border. One of your reports highlights that i. C. E. Spent over 17 million for hotel space and services that largely unused in 2021. Can you elaborate on how i. C. E. Managed to waste 17 million in taxpayer resources . If you are speaking about the contract that was between dhs and the endeavors corporation i am. The contract required a minimum number of beds to be available to i. C. E. During certain periods, and those beds would be paid for regardless of whether an migrant was actually staying in the room, in the hotel room. Where the beds ever used . Not to my knowledge, no. Why was i. C. E. Able to use solesource contracting and not award a contract based on an open competitive process . Because the question that you just asked relates to an ongoing matter im not able to provide more sufficient information in this setting. If the company had no experience, why were they awarded the contract of the more experienced company . I can, congressman, the same and just before. My next question, theres an Ongoing Investigation to hope what somebody will be held accountable. Would 17 million help at the northern border . I believe it would help anywhere. I mean we dont have the volume they have on the southern border. Everybody understands that, we also move a lot of products that a lot of people need. If you like brad, you like what goes on between north dakota and canada. If you like, if you eat a hamburger you can about what goes on in north dakota and canada. Im trying, just kind understand where we end up in how we get to these places that we had the scenarios where we are paying for money wheezing people all over the country, many in sanctuary cities, balk and revolt of the fact we are moving migrants across and moving them out of a high density area into other places. When we are talking about, we have any analysis at this point yet of what were spending on hotel rooms and other facilities while we have 17 million worth worth of unused beds . I believe, congressman, we have an ongoing audit to look at the movement of migrants and what its costing dhs to do that. Thank you. I would just say, as we finish this off, that we have to figure out a better way to do this. We have normal, at the same time the level of frustration from my constituents that exists when we have unfettered access whether its ports of entry, whether its between ports of entry, and the vast majority of illegal activity that is occurring, and at the center of economic sectors for northern border communities are actually being crushed and i started with covid and a study with Vaccine Mandates and started with, and finally ended with the United States being the last essentially country in the civilized world that allowed, the lifted those mandates. And these are real world consequences. And when we talk about trust in government and talk about trust in these issues, when people see fentanyl flowing across a southern border, between ports of entry come with have that debate 1000 times and we see people being released into the interior of the United States with court dates that dont exist for five, seven, nine years ended beds and i got a farmer from north dakota that cant get across the border after 5 p. M. Because, because we dont have the resources to do it, the frustration is real and it exists all across the country and exists as far away from the southern border as you can possibly be, which is in north dakota. Thank you and i yield back. Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you, mr. Chairman. The border has been a problem for a long period of time because congress has failed to pass comp rates of Immigration Reform. Its not like this is an issue because something is been going on for decades it. Its been passed from one president to the next to the next. Its possibly worse now. Thats what happens when you have a problem that you dont fix for two decades. The same people who talk about the border, its not like they have come up with solutions. They complain to get on fox news every day, but its not like were having solutions. I want to ask a couple of questions because im frustrated with homeland as well. I mean, i have folks back home who were raped by their nanny. She spent 20 years in jail in florida, and all the family wanted to know is that when she was released what was going to happen. Thats it. She was a victim. She had a right to know. And i had even on her behalf made connections with homeland on this issue. We were told dont worry, well make sure the family knows if she supported or if we are keeping her, whatever the story is. Guess what . None of it happened. The rapist was deported. Nobody knows what happened to her. Shes not flagged in the system. And now that family, the girl, who is now a mother of two, has to be worried about where her rapist is. And so i have a couple of questions because obviously there is complaint all around, whether its secret service or i. C. E. Homeland was founded 20 years ago after a National Emergency. Its got twitter agencies. Im not going to list them all. They are all household names. Has homeland be, today . Is a too big . Is a time to split homeland up course is a time to reform the bureaucracy . Congressman, let me first say that you and i did have a discussion about the individual who was convicted of rape, and we discussed the crime victims rights act and the prosecutor should have complied with that. I hope that that information was helpful that i supplied to you. Thats a whole nother issue because quite frankly the rapist had more rights than the victim. Yes, sir. I agree with you. I will say that Homeland Security as the Third Largest department and the federal government is quite large. It was put together as you described speedy your almost as big as dod. Yes, sir, we are number three right behind dod and health and Human Services. It perhaps may require a look by this committee or others, maybe the committee on Homeland Security, to see sort of a look back to see if its fulfilling the mission that was intended to do but that would be a decision for congress and not for me as the Inspector General. So you dont have any suggestions on potential reforms or opinions on whether you think the agency can still function with 22 agencies. I hear its kind of like when all the agencies get together with the secretary its like the night at the roundtable, they each each get five minutes updates to the secretary in the meeting is over. I will share that from our experience of doing audits and inspections and even criminal investigations that silos of information remain to this day in dhs, which is presenting a problem for effective management. So what i would like to hear is i would like to her solutions to problems rather than continuing to gaslight issues at homeland or at i s or customs and border, whatever it is. I do hear any solutions and i think its quite time we start looking at reform at home and i were your the bounds of my time to the Ranking Member. Thank you. Mr. Cuffari, in april 20, 2001 to get back to something a nonprison watchdog project on government oversight and this is mentioned by another member broke a disturbing story your Office Sought to sense a f Sexual Harassment and misconduct at dhs. Going to the draft report that r 13 in the committee 28,000 dhs employees were surveyed and more than 10,000 of the 20,000 reported expenses sexualharassment and misconduct in the workplace. Yet the report was shelled. Mr. Mr. Cuffari, did a report on the morale of cbp which weve been discussing density effects of Sexual Harassment . On employees. Im sorry. Ranking member, whats the question berquist did you report consider the employees i think the answer is no. But would you agree that Sexual Harassment and misconduct are one factor that could actually impact morale . It could be a factor survey. And yet it was not considered in that report that i want to make that know. I also with remainder of my time want to note that thank you, mr. Chairman. I will discuss it later. Mr. Sessions. Cherubim, thank you very much. Mr. Cuffari, welcome to the committee. I think its interesting that our friends rather than ask pertinent questions about what your ideas have been in writing have been simply to attack you. I had been to the border top to bottom for a number of years, and went back and saw firsthand the piles of equipment that still sit there waiting for the wall to be built. It was my understanding, this is not a question to you, but its my understanding that was there to help the Border Patrol agents so that it were not overrun as they are being done now. It would allow them operational control of the border. That would mean they could then follow the political will if you went from one president to another. We would effectively understand, i dont know about 100 , but a higher percentage of people who were coming and could control drug usage, could control people who might come to this country who were wanted or would be seen as wanting to harm our country. These piles are still there, requiring the Border Patrol as when i was there with our young chairman and general chairman comer down in yuma where we were in a bus. There were 90 or so people from cuba, men, one Border Patrol agent. One female Border Patrol agent whose job was to hustle and get her job done, and that was not to catch people. They were running away. That was to hurry up and take them to processing because her boss, or her bosses boss, was being held accountable for how long it took them to hustle to do their job to take these people in, rather than protecting our border. I am concerned that there is a staffing issue problem. We have spoken about it. You have today with understanding how we protect this country, seemingly you are being attacked about your oversight after things have occurred, rather than your ideas. We know the border is in trouble. We know that we have a problem with fentanyl, gotaways, drugs, people come to this country losing children. The government actually taking control of children and then losing them. Then being let loose on the streets of texas, arizona, california. People in california seem to be happy with the people in arizona let them speak for themselves but in texas it is causing a huge problem, so much so that our governor is transporting them where they want to go, washington, d. C. , new york city, chicago. And now they are being attacked for doing what these people wanted. I want you to know this Congress Views in the majority that you are doing your job, that you are being stretched to a political limit about reporting what is happening versus trying to tow the line of what this department wants to do the department of Homeland Security, including the secret service. You were a few minutes ago literally they said you did not do your job in reporting to them. Have you ever offered to come and meet with the minority which was in the majority . Where you ever asked to come meet with them . I volunteered and i met with several members of this committee who are now minority members. Well, i would say to my friend, congressman lynch, that if he feels like hes not getting what he needs from his service, which im a friend of stephen and i appreciate him, i would encourage them to do that with the subcommittee, to write the same letter to get an answer. Because i view that this department is failing to protect this country which is its core mission. Why was established was not to let anybody come this country, encourage them, wave them through and then lose them from within the masses of millions that are coming. I am concerned about rule of law. I am concerned about the deaths. Im concerned about even midsized cities receiving people who have come from an organization of a cartel to distribute drugs all over this country dirt they are openly allowing this, and the Democratic Party is right there with this administration to allow it to happen. I want to thank you for taking time to be with us. I find you refreshing but also what you do know when our friends that are on the other side, the Democrat Members of this committee, wished to correspond, i would encourage them to come and will give them the same answer rather than an answer that they dont like. Thank you very much. I yield back my time, mr. Chairman. Mr. Golden. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Did i just do you say you offer to come and sit with members of the majority in the last congress . Thats correct. You did. Was just. Did you ever do that . Yes. With his . Mr. Moskowitz, ms. Porter. Mr. Moskowitz was not in Congress Last congress. Im talking this congress. I said last congress to use the last august. He asked her last congress did you ever meet with the majority chairman thompson, chairman maloney, anyone . I met, i did meet with the chairman thompson. Did not meet with chairwoman maloney. Okay. On august 1, 2022, former chairwoman maloney and for chairman mr. Thompson from the Homeland Security committee requested that you provide all communications and documents related to your offices decision, not to pursue missing secret service Text Messages related to the january 6th insurrection. Did you ever provide that information to those Committee Chairman . I did, and on august 23, 2022 letter to both congresswoman, chairwoman maloney and to chairman thompson. You wrote a letter. Did you provide all the communications and documents related your decision . I provide information that was requested and not particular document. Well, let the record show that you did not actually provide the requested information. Were your Deputy Inspector jim and your chief of staff requested to have transcribed interviews last august, the last congress as well . Yes. Did you allow them to undergo these transcribed interview . Because of Ongoing Investigations, i did not permit them to be interviewed by this body. So you just blatantly refused to permit and even though they could of course have come in here and say that they cant answer specific questions related to Ongoing Investigation . Thats correct. Okay. You know, i find it remarkable that we are having this hearing, you know, with someone with a very clear vendetta and political politicized approach to the job of an independent Inspector General. If the point of your report and the point of this hearing is as my colleague from texas just said, because we have a problem at the border, we can all agree. And if the morale is down because there are not enough agents and officers at the border, we can all agree. The sad reality is that my colleagues on the majority have no interest in any meaningful Immigration Reform. They would prefer to hold a hearing like this, and we have many of them in the Homeland Security committee where they can talk about the problems, they can accuse the Biden Administration, make false allegations about all of their terrible policies, and yet didnt want to actually do anything. We need more, would you agree we need more Immigration Judges to decide asylum cases, mr. Cuffari . That would be a decision that would rest with the Justice Department who has speeded thats not my question. Do you think it would help things at the border if we have more Immigration Judges to decide asylum claims faster . More people will certainly help across the entire network. Thats right. And you know, i heard, it gets tiresome to continue to have these conversations. There is a tremendous migration issue in central america. There are 2. 4 million venezuelans in colombia. This is not particular to the United States. This is a problem that congressional effort and oversight and legislation needs to correct, yet we are not doing that. And when you hear michael is on the other side of the aisle talk about all the problems with fentanyl and with gotaways in with smuggling, do you know what they dont ever talk about . They dont ever talk about the tremendous exportation of americanmade guns to mexican cartels that give them the power and authority to control the fentanyl trafficking into this country. My colleague from texas just listed a whole litany of things that are the problems were having at the border, and never mentioned guns. H. R. Two, h. R. Two, mr. Perry, was an immigration Border Security bill. It doesnt mention guns. It doesnt mention gun trafficking. It doesnt mentioned guns going from america to mexico. If you want to talk about Immigration Reform and you want to fix the border, come talk to us. Lets be real about how we can actually fix the border. I yield back. Mr. Big. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thanks, dr. Cuffari, for being here. I do think its interesting that the last gentleman was asking you about asylum and Immigration Courts, but thats not in your purview, right . That the doj. Thats not dhs, right . Thats correct. So that was odd i thought it was pretty consistent because i thought the Ranking Member comer sitting here today, rather dubious his own credibility, kind of dubious because he basically questioned, he questioned this document, your document, you report but in so doing he spent a good portion of his time lobbying the biden border policies that you start that, i dont care what the pre42 surge was. Weve gone back down to the typical biden border crisis numbers. Thats will be set today. Thats about a five fold increase over what jeh johnson said was a crisis on the border you see 1000 a day . He said thats a crisis if you have about 5000 or the general and from long beach is as weve got the. [singing] under control. You dont. You just simply dont. But i will say this, you report is consistent with my on the grand experience in getting down to the border many, many times. Ive taken the chairman down many times. I have been down there, i go down to, you just go down there. I dont think anybody with me. I will park my car and start walking along the border. See how the chicks were Border Patrol agent to come. When they finally get there i asked him how things are going. They tell me, it aint going good. I say, what do your colleagues feel . Well, they feel, they feel like theyve been abandoned by this administration. The other thing i will say is, you had survey responses from 16 of the entire force, is that right . 16 of the 57,000 employees in dhs i merrily buys ncbd who resurveyed i. C. E. In my studies, a large in study was typically we thought anything over 350500 was a large study was a large study. 9000 would be pretty persuasive. You compared it to twitter survey. The only difference is you had a limited universe and if youre going to make a claim you might say selection bias because only people who cared enough to respond respondent but you had 9000, 60 respond. Well, lets take a look here just a little bit. Can you discuss what steps you office takes when it out of the investigation . We notify the department through a transmittal memo of opening of the project, audit or an inspection. We let them know will be looking for certain documents for some communication, and we set whats called an entrance conference with the departments Liaison Office and the components Liaison Office to begin our audit or inspection work. When you requested documents or information, whats the typical Response Time for an agency . Normally its about 30 days to respond back to us. Vhs, are they respond to take me within 30 days . They had been uncertain locations. What is her a typical ree time now . Upwards of about, there is one project that is 140 days that we made our request and havent gotten the information. So do they give you a rationale for the fivemonth delay . Not in that particular case that they have in other. Is rationale for delay that they give to you, are those allowed under the Inspector General act . The only exception to not providing the ig that im aware of in the ig act is the secretary of the department would have to make a determination that for National Security or not to compromise an Ongoing Investigation. The Department Secretary within have to make that determination. Has secretary mayorkas made that communication and communicate that to you . He would also have to commit communicate that to this Oversight Committee as will. Has he communicated that to you . No, sir. He hasnt communicated that to us as far as i know. So is not complying with the requirements of the Inspector General act, is it fair to say . Not to my knowledge. Well, my time has expired, and i told you it would go by fast but mr. Chairman, thank you. Okay. Congressman. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Good morning sir. Mr. Raskin was asking about Text Messages with respect to january 6th. I have some questions about some messaging i believe it was signal that was used i think by you and some of your colleagues beginning around december 13, 2020. This is based on an affidavit that you filed yesterday in a case thats been picked to you recall filing the affidavit . I do. In affidavit you talked about how there was a time, there was a time aware you made a switch, and others, using signal. Do you recall that . I recall at the direction of dhs signal was placed on our government cell phones as a result of the solarwinds compromise of the departments to munication. Okay. Who was it specifically that directed the use of signal . I believe it was the chief Information Officer for the department of Homeland Security. Okay. So during that time. You use signal until early 2021, according to affidavit . I physically used signal on one occasion any twoweek period of time. Okay. Well, im not sure you said that in your affidavit that they came a time where you stopped using it in early 2021, according to your affidavit . Thats correct. Signal you may know is an application where it can automatically delete the communications that are exchanged on it . Actually i dont know that. All right. Let me ask you this. As the Inspector General you are familiar with the federal records act, right . Yes. So you know theres an obligation to preserve government, official government documents . Thats correct. And electronic messaging falls under that category, isnt that right . Yes. According to your affidavit, all of those, whatever those messages were were all deleted, is that correct. Was no, thats incorrect. Okay. They are not preserved. No. What im saying is that the one instance that i did use signal, it was an Oral Communication telephone call with the members of the department of Homeland Security. I believe it was their Breach Response Team thats the one and only instance that i ever use signal. Okay. Well, did your organization, did your Department Responds that none of the messages on signal were preserved in the filing for yesterday from the u. S. Attorneys office . I dont believe there were messages. There was an Oral Communication, not Text Messages or anything to my knowledge, at least in my case. I only used it once as i described. All right. Let me read this to you. However, until the time the signal messaging application was not approved for use on dhs devices. However, i was one of the small number of users authorized to install the application on my oig issued cell phone for the limited purpose of discussing response to the abovedescribed apparent breach of dhs computer networks. Thats the messaging your talking about . Thats the Oral Communication, not a message. I just want to be clear with the committee. Okay. And then in the next paragraph that you said no more than a few weeks after installing the signal application i deleted signal from oig issued cell phone because i i no longer hd use for it. Thats correct, yes. So any messages that are unavailable were not based on you deleting anything if its just they were not preserved in some way . No. What im saying, just to be clear, congressman, i did not use signal to do messaging. I just did to do a telephone call at the request of dhs. All right. And nothing was done to preserve anything with respect to those telephone calls . I dont, unless we had a title iii or some other electronic intercept in my oral medications, i dont believe there would be a message that would be preserved. All right. Let me ask you this question. With respect to the january 6th documentation from the secret service, all right, and there was a 14 month delay before you notified congress of that issue with respect to the deletion of the secret Service Texts . Just to be clear, i answered that question previously and its not 14 months. We learned that dhs deleted all the Text Messages from the secret service phones. We learned that in february of 2022. All right. Thank you, mr. Chair. I yield back. Now i have mr. Perry. Thanks, mr. Chair. Mr. Cuffari, as always im left with cracking clarifying this. My colleagues on your the side of the aisle is generally known to perceive rightly so as amnesty for breaking americas loss. Therefore, they lament the fact we are not, were not interested in allowing people to come across our border illegally bringing fentanyl, engaging Human Trafficking, gang activity, are not interested in providing amnesty for the lawlessness. So no, theres that could be comprehensive Immigration Reform because thats what it includes. Just let the record reflect that. Regarding my colleague who complained about the rape of his constituent and the fact that it seemed like the person that was deported had more rights than she did, i would just remind my colleague on on the other sif the out that they support that. They supported that in all the cities that the run across the country, and at the southern border. They support that lawlessness. So its returning to come in and complain on her behalf when he and his party have been aiding and abetting it for years upon years. Mr. Goldman says we dont want to talk about guns. We are happy to talk about fast and furious. We are that party, his party took guns across the border to mexican cartels that were used to kill americans trying to protect this border but they dont want to talk about it. Eric holder did want to talk about it, was held in contempt and they still dont want to talk about it. And its rich for mr. Goldman to talk about you promoting falsehoods while he sat at the front and center of impeachment of a president based entirely on falsehood which he was well aware of at the time and is well aware of right now. I know youre laughing it up over there, arent you . You are laughing it up because you are full of perfidy. Lies and more lies and more lies. Mr. Cuffari, its been alleged or appeared that more people would make it better. If there were less people crossing illegally, would we need more judges to deal with those less people crossing illegally . You would need more judges to process people who were claiming asylum. They are crossing illegally, claiming asylum based on illegal crossing. The point is we could hire as many as we want to but as long as you let more and more unstoppable people coming across the border illegally you will never have enough. The solution is not to hire more people. The solution is to stop people from coming across illegally. That is the solution. To get you to stay that the solution is to hire more people belies the fact that people are coming across illegally because of the policies of my friends on the other side of the island no other reason, for no other reason. Was the border ever manageable before without hiring more people . Was it ever manageable before with without hiring more people . According to my personal experience, it was manageable starting in 1994. You did a survey, 9300 and change, the total population surveyed much more than the polls this operation runs to determine Public Opinion about whos going to vote for what, you are being criticized here today pretty survey. Some Border Patrol agents, local management would transport migrants out of the facility to return them after the visit ended. Why would they do that . Why would that happen . I cant answer that. Hazard a guess. In my experience i didnt see that happen. How would you see it happen, if they move them back after you left, how would you see it happen . We do unannounced inspections when they dont know we are coming to a particular detention. These are Border Patrol agents saying it. Our Border Patrol agents signing up for overseeing mail delivery, restocking snacks and hygiene products, is that why people want to secure the border . Is that the job they are looking for when they sign up and say i want to be a Border Patrol agent, replenish the snack supply for people coming across illegally . Is that the number one request on the list of job assignments . That is the frustration they describe. I yield the balance. Mister frost. Thank you, mr. Chair. The office of personal managements develop and survey is a tool for federal agency employees, when they engage that work, they are more effective at their jobs, perform the work more efficiently and part of the printable job is keeping their team engaged. The federal Employee Viewpoint surveys can reveal what Leadership Techniques are working for agency executives. You right about your offices federal Employee Viewpoint after score since youve taken the Inspector General in a letter to this committee, you highlighted a portion of your opposite survey data from 20202021 that show employee engagement. In december of 2,022 that i have here, you again highlighted improvements in your agency 2,022 survey data. I ask unanimous consent to enter any mail between Inspector General Joseph Cuffari and his office lauding the importance of survey scores. Do you agree the federal Employee Viewpoint survey data are indicators for how agency is performing . Yes. In the past, you said they document progress. The most recent survey data shows a majority of the people in your office do not believe their Senior Leadership maintains high standards of honesty and integrity, 66 of your employees. Are you a Senior Leader . Yes. Are you aware that nearly half of the employees in the office of inspection and evaluations fear retaliation, fear retaliation if they disclose suspected violation of laws, rules or regulation . You are asking if im aware of it . Are you aware that 40 compared to 43 who dont . No, sir. That the reality of the survey you tout. Joseph cuffari, how about the fact, do you know about the fact that less than half your staff feel they can safely disclose suspected wrongdoing . Yes. You are aware of that, 45 feel they can disclose that. I find this incredibly alarming. Especially when coupled with the fact that you have run away with any efforts to conduct oversight in your office using taxpayer money, one. 4 million to contract a law firm to run away from accountability and i have seen week leaders run from accountable he before in my home state of florida, Governor Ron Desantis is saddling taxpayers with billions in legal fees to defend his unlawful policies with his intimidation, his removal of dissenting officials, major losses on the back of taxpayers because private sector officials called out his disastrous agenda and the Florida Legislature has approved a new budget to pay for all his legal losses. He doesnt want to answer for that. I admit at this point many of us realize desantis gets an f in accountability but Inspector General serve as a safe haven for whistleblowers. How is able to blow are supposed to trust your office when members of your own staff dont feel safe to report wrongdoing themselves . I yield to mr. Ivey. Joseph cuffari, i have one question left, a couple questions left, this is with respect to Text Messages with your government issued iphone. Do you delete Text Messages from your government issued iphone . Yes. When was that . It is my normal practice to delete touch messages. You delete them on an ongoing basis. Are they stored anywhere . Not sure. Safe to say based on that, at the time you deleted them you didnt know if they were stored in alternative place. Correct. It is fair to note that i dont use my government cell phone for official business. Your testimony for the day is these Text Messages you have the leader or at least some of them had no federal information or any information that would be implicated under the federal record act. Under the federal records act, that is correct. They have no connection to official business at all. Nothing that would be considered a federal record. Using your federal phone for personal purposes . No, sir. Whats the purpose of using your government issued phone . To conduct business. Not federal business related to your department . Not federal business considering that they are records, clearly defined statute in places of requirements of what federal record actually is. Final question. You made a conscious decision with the documents or messages you deleted that the federal records laws did not apply to the messages you deleted. The messages that i deleted i did not consider them to be federal records and therefore i deleted them, thats correct. Thank you, mr. Chairman. President ial candidates this morning, welcome to congress. In 2019, there were just under 17,000 Border Agents handling an average of 70 one thousand monthly encounters as of 2,022, Border Agents decreased to 16,654 but average monthly encounters rose to 184,000 encounters. In that time, no coincidence over 300 increase in known got aways. Border agent more our is low, border agent retention is low and this at ministrations ability to follow the will of law is in the gutter. Im very proud of South Carolina where we train Border Patrol agents. Ive been to one of their graduations. I know they put a lot on the line, they work hard and the purpose of this hearing today is to talk a little bit about that. Speaking on the condition of anonymity, one agent said under biden things are the worst they have ever been by far. Agents are calling in all the time. You always hear it doesnt matter, whats the point . Agents are afraid of ending up on the news for doing their job or getting in trouble or just doing their job and there is no morale. Joseph cuffari, is this the same type of sentiment you found when visiting the southwest border . Border patrol agents have expressed similar comments to me and my staff. Is at the worst it has ever been for their morale . It has been significantly increased since i started with federal Civil Service in 1993. Do you find agents have become apathetic about these issues that are not being addressed . Are they apathetic . When you talk to them . They expressed frustration. I must say Border Patrol and immigration and Customs Enforcement agents do a great job every single day of the year and they are just frustrated. They work very hard, dont they . When you speak with Border Patrol agents do they blame Agency Leadership . Do they blame the administration . Or both . Status of the border . Who do they blame for this . They expressed frustration with folks. All right. Joseph cuffari, thank you for your time today. I appreciate your work regarding the sad state of affairs that is Border Patrol agents morale. A 65 page report to realize something is wrong, it is selfevident, undeniable. Thank you for answering my questions today. My colleagues on the other side of the aisle knew this was a problem, the goal to push Border Patrol issues to the breakup unsustainability and that is where we are today. What we are doing along the southern border is unsustainable. A consistent strategy, never let a good crisis go to waste. The vilification of Border Agents. And they have the senate and white house on the committee, i remember having when hearing about this and it was the northern border, less than 10,000 illegal the grant across the northern border every year and we saw last year, the growth of Illegal Immigrants coming across the southern border daily, it far surpasses and i hope Republican Leadership can hold the administration accountable. Thank you and i yield back my time, mr. Chairman. Thank you, mister chairman. I appreciate it, and appreciate Joseph Cuffari for being here today. Americas Border Patrol agents put their lives on the line, and Human Trafficking from entering our country. They have been understaffed and without adequate resources to do their job effectively and that means to change. Between fiscal years 2020 and 2022, the number of Border Patrol agents guarding the southwest border fell slightly when monthly encounters with illegal alien spiked by a staggering 450 . Your report also found fy 2022 set the record for Migrant Deaths with 800 migrants dying while attempting to cross the southwest border. These are not just statistics, they represent a real crisis at the border the remains unaddressed by the Biden Administration. Not surprisingly, 88 of ice and cbp agents you surveyed said their duty locations are not actually staff to handle the surge of people streaming across the border. To further compound the problem, 24 of respondents said they plan to leave their respective agencies within the calendar year. It is a dangerous job in the first place, its clear from your reporting that morale among Border Agents is lower than ever before. One agent testified due to a significant shift in immigration policies from the lower administration it feels like they are trying to do their job, quote, with one hand tied behind their back. Joseph cuffari, among the agents you surveyed, which policy change did they say most hindered their efforts to protect our border. The unknown lawsuits, theres just a whole wide variety of of concerns. With the current number of agents be able to maintain control of the southwest border of remaining mexico was still in place . More individuals certainly would help spend the flow of illegal immigration. The remain in mexico policy if that was still in place, would that help to maintain control of the southwest border, from your observations . I cant speak to the policy decisions. You concluded with recommendations on the Staffing Shortage at cbp, the Biden Administration agreed with two of them but rejected the first under the premise the Agency Staffing models are already sufficient annual report did not recognize the dhs initiatives to support its personnel. Do you agree with that assessment . No. Accord if the report from 20192022 there was a 303 increase in known got aways. Is this because there are no agents to respond . According to the agents on the border, yes. Or report details at one southwest border station, 15 of gotaways occurred because no agents were available to respondent. How common an occurrence is that . To my knowledge it is a weekly occurrence. What impact did the Staffing Shortage have on efforts to combat Human Trafficking, drug smuggling and other activities . Negative impact. Giving increasing demand for Cyber Security expertise what steps is this barman taking to recruit individuals with specialized skills in this area . The department implement did hr program to provide additional funding like an enhancement to basic salary for those types of career fields, jobs that relate to that. Are there any partnerships or collaborations with educational institutions or industry recruitment you know of specifically . Not that im aware of. Report detailed use of details and over time as a staffing mechanism. How efficient is this from a budget perspective . Is this an approach thats the best use of taxpayer money . Its driving a huge cost in terms of expenditures of money to the department. My time is about to expire but i want to thank you for being here today. Youve put up with a lot from the other side of the island the reason im so pleased with you being here, the way in which you conducted yourself is because youve given short answers that center on the facts and the truth as you have observed it. I appreciate that. You can ask any of my colleagues up here, you know youre getting the runaround when answers are really long and dont allow you to get to the questions you have. I appreciate you being here today and i yield back. I want to ask you, Joseph Cuffari, about the office of intelligence and analysis. Are you aware of Domestic Intelligence program under oia that allowed Homeland Security individuals to interview just about anyone in the United States to gather human intelligence . I believe we have an audit into that. You have an ongoing audit . When was it initiated . Have to get back to you. Have you conducted any other oversight of this program . The overt human Intelligence Program specifically . Not im aware of. Are you aware of this political article from march 6th of this year, dhs has a program gathering Domestic Intelligence and virtually no one knows about it . Im not certain that ive seen that money. I would like to enter this into the record. This program gives, does it concern you. Does it concern you some are so worried about the legality of their actions that they wanted legal Liability Insurance . That would be a concern. Are you concerned of the workings of this program . No. Given that it made National News multiple times, why have you not undertaken an audit of this program from the past . Im going to get back to you about when we did or didnt open audit. Im not certain. As you go about that work, let me give you some facts. There was a survey in 2020. There were 126 respondents, three years ago. Half of the respondents alerted management about their concerns that was inappropriate or illegal. The slide deck, responded to this fact, they were concerned there work was inappropriate or illegal, theres an opportunity to work with employees to address concerns they have about the appropriateness or lawfulness of work activity. Do you think its appropriate for your agency to work with employees about their concerns about lawfulness or do you think your office should make sure the program is actually lawful . The program appears to be at main dhs behind the office of Inspector General. As Inspector General, and besides main dhs. And why you havent conducted oversight of that. At this time. Thank you for making us aware of it. You are not aware. I was not. Are you aware this program was interviewing incarcerated individuals without their counsel present . No. Is that constitutional . It is unconstitutional. Can you promise you will conduct an investigation into this program . You have my commitment that if we dont have an ongoing audit we will look into the matter that you describe the. I yield back. Okay. In closing i would like to thank our panelists for their important, for important and insightful testimony. Our Ranking Member, garcia, for closing remarks. I want to thank my colleagues for their hard work, holding a witness accountable for the long history of partisan and improper behavior, mishandling of the january 6th investigation and inability to do his creek important job to standards. I want to remind the committee that this whole hearing is premised on a nonstatistical survey and opinion article disguised as serious oversight. The report i want to quote again, a nonstatistical survey about cannot be projected to the entire population of cvp and ice Law Enforcement officers and agents. This is a report that would not hold muster in any serious survey work. Without making this i hearing a lesson, and if you are not willing to put controls, you are left with a twitter paul, did doctoral work and this work in this report, would not be accepted in the basic stats class. This is not data from the department of Homeland Security as you claim in response from an earlier question but the methods you chose to publish publicly to push a political argument. This report indicates fundamental problems with the report but you published it anyway. This relies on dedicated inspectors general to root out against waste, fraud, and abuse. An Important Note from earlier in the hearing, im extremely concerned that today in front of our committee, by the way, oversees the federal records act you admitted to deleting federal records based on your own determination, that should concern the chairman and this entire committee. I have no confidence in your ability to hold up the mission you are intended to do. Does it meet the standards of data reliably by your own admission should be an embarrassment. Inspector general who does not understand duties, resists basic congressional oversight with leading federal records, under investigation, loss of faith in his workforce, has no business serving. Before i close i ask unanimous consent to include a letter to both the chairman and myself for the project on government oversight, june 6th, 2023, that speaks to continued concerns with the Inspector General and preventing independent oversight and i ask unanimous consent to include in the record a letter from september 2022 from concerned dhs staffers, every Program Office at every level, with troubling management of the office and i want to quote his disastrous leadership. With that i yield back. So ordered. We have a lack of common sense as congressman biggs, on the border 6 or 7 times, i have been down there at other times. We have a situation which, depending on the metric, contacts at the border, gotaways at the border, people crossing the border, unaccompanied minors, number of people coming here is 8 to 10 times what was two years ago. Common sense will tell you what the morale is of the Border Patrol. When you have that many people coming across you obviously have a hard time doing your job. A lot of these people are little children. When im down there, Border Patrol complains about being a babysitter instead of what they signed up to be which is Law Enforcement agency. They uniformly, by the way, say the biggest problem is not lack of personnel, they say lack of personnel is a big problem. The biggest problem is the policies of the Biden Administration and they got rid of the remaining mexico policy and no matter how many people they have down there as long as they have this asylum policy, a huge number of people will come in here. Another thing is the degree to which mexican cartels from the border. Last time i was down there, me and congressman biggs ran into 21 people coming here from mexico. The reason they came there with Border Patrol is Border Patrol has to process 20 one people including two kids under the age of one and when they were processing them it opened that segment of the border because they were understaffed, two people crossing the border with illegal drugs, over 100,000 americans, we dont have enough people to both process people and guard the border. Our minority, 9,000 people were surveyed here, you but you dont need 9000 people on the border, talk to 10, 20, 30 Border Patrol agents, you get the same thing, they are woefully understaffed and the Biden Administration got rid of stay in mexico they dont care how many people are coming and that results in low morale. They signed up to guard the border and are not allowed to guard our border and have over 100,000 people coming here. The arrogance of people coming here just keeps getting worse and i am struck by Border Patrol telling me people complaining they have concert tickets and lets go, lets go, probably true. That is what we have coming across. It is so automatically. In any event, i hope we get more Border Patrol agents down there so you cant just send a few families across, tie up the Border Patrol, people coming across with drugs killing americans. I hope somebody in the Biden Administration cares about the fact getting rid of stay in mexico policy has made it so difficult for these guys to do their jobs. Thank you for being here. I remind, without objection all members have 5 legislative days within which to submit materials and written questions for the witness which will be forwarded for their response. If there is no further business, without objection, this subcommittee stands adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] all weeke e showing 2020 for candidates attending the iowa state fair in des moines. Watch at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan, cspan now, or online at cspan. Org. Washington journal our live forum to discuss the latest issues. From washington to across the country. Saturday morning three guests discuss the release of their 2024 edition. The president ial campaign, and he races to watch. During our spotlight on podcasts , to guests talk about their podcast. Cspan washington journal join in the conversation live at 7 00 eastern saturday morning on cspan, cspan now, or online at cspan. Org. Sunday night on q a, and his book a professor looks at the 1977s each of three buildings in washington, d. C. By a group of muslims and their leader. Hostages were taken at all three locations. Its amazing how the story has receded into the back rent and we dont talk about it that much. The story has never been assembled by anyone in 50 years. A lot of it was lost and nobody has thought much about it. Some of the federal records were retained, but the local records were lost including the transcript. I was able to uncover the transcript and it is thousands of pages, every word spoken every witness during the trial which really helped me on top of all of the other fbi records and Everything Else that i found. That record really helped me piece together the sequence of events in washington. Sunday night at 8 00 eastern on cspan q a. You can listen to q a and all of our podcasts on our free cspan now app. Cspan is your unfiltered view of government. Full funding provided by these Television Companies and more. Including cox. The syndrome is extremely rare, but friends dont have to be. When you are connected, youre not alone. Cox supports cspan as a Public Service along with thesether Television Providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. President biden welcomed the leaders of japan and south korea to camp david for a trilateral summit. President told reporters alliance between the three nations that only make each country stronger help to make the world safer. This marks the first time by the administration has welcomed any foreign leaders to camp david since the president took office