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Reconvene. Were now back in order. The chair recognizes miss crockett for five minutes. Thank you so much, mister chairman. The problem with going this late in the game is that theres so much we put out there, youre kind of all over the place. Just rock with me for a little bit. First of all, i want to get the elephant out of the room. Just to be clear, you provided deposition testimony and in your deposition, neither one of you ever stated that President Joe Biden interfered with your investigations. Correct . This transcript does not include that. The transcript does not include. Thank you or does it include whether garland interfered with your investigations. Correct . The transcript doesnt say that. The reason i say that is because the insinuation that the committee is trying to make, or at least one side of the committee is trying to make is that for some reason, there was interference. My colleagues continue to make sure that they outline the fact that this investigation started under the trump administration. Thats the reason about who appointed who. At the end of the day, we have no evidence that the president or attorney general of the United States interfered. I also want to make sure that we outline some legal principles since we have so many new found prosecutors today. On this committee. Number one, just to be clear, because you investigate something, it does not necessarily mean that there will be a conviction. Correct . That is correct. In fact, in our criminal Justice System, you are cloaked in a presumption of instant innocence. Thats what happens under the constitution. Weve all got a role to play. A role is investigative, correct . Correct. And you have an a usa who is usually the one who is responsible for taking the evidence. They probably have an investigator in their office. Theres usually an investigator in directly relation with their of is that will review any documentation you provide, sit down and talk to the usas office about recommendation, what the targets will look like, things like that. Is that correct . If thats correct, ive never seen that. Let me be clear, there is a level after you get done with your investigation, and with the u. S. Attorneys office to look at the evidence youve provided. They will make these decisions. Correct . All four assigned attorneys agree with recommending impacts, and misdemeanor tax charges. Im not going to dispute that. The difference is that ive done the defense side of this before. As far as unconcerned, it seems like a sweetheart deal. I have never played anybody to every single count of a federal indictment in the first place, unless they only had the one count. Ive always negotiated, and unlike on the state level, i typically do my negotiations a lot of times before they are even indicted. A lot of, times my clients are handing evidence over, all kinds of things. The thing is, those conversations happen ever taken place with an investigator. It always takes place with the u. S. Attorney. The point is, you dont have the ultimate funding authority. The people that did, they decided to do what they decided to do for whatever reason. Correct . In my experience, ive always been a part of that table, talking to the usa, and then talking about the charging decisions. Its not accurate to say that im not the investigators not involved in that. This time, it is a little different for me. Thats why you thought something was wrong. I want to get to Something Else quickly. I want to talk about who we should be prosecuting. We should be looking at the fact that in 2017, trumps first year in office, he also made six point 5 million from china in tax returns. The china payments arent clear for the returns. The payment were a surprise, and trump is an outspoken critic of the five point 8 million that hunter biden made. The difference is, trump was our president when he made this money from china, where is im sure that you would agree with, meet hunter biden has always been a private citizen. We have got a lot of other stuff. In fact, it is clear that trump never paid more than 750 in taxes for, i want to say, a total of two years of his which is absolutely insane. We also know that it shows the trump claimed large cash donations in security, and reports to the irs didnt verify that. They said that while the trumps facts the irs is not agreed to work on them. That is shameful. In addition to that, we heard testimony earlier that talks about how whether or not you execute a search warrant under section 9 13 point 420 of the doj manual, it specifically states that when theres an attorney as a subject of an investigation, prosecutors are expected to lace the lists and effective law enforcement. Its kind of what they did for trump when they gave him a number of opportunities to turn over the documents, those National Secrets that he kept in the toilet. He chose not to. Thats why hes facing federal charges down in florida. Finally, i want to make sure that we clear up something about the central park five. I dont think my colleagues from the other side of the aisle understand that not only where they found to be not guilty, they were paid 41 million in the 2014 settlement because their civil rights in that lawsuit were violated in addition to that. We know that one of the central park five now serves on city council. So i ask unanimous consent that i would the lady yield a quick question . When you yielded question . You made the argument the trump received 6 million from china or something, and hunter biden received that. Do you know exactly 100 biden did to receive the money from china . Thats kind of a hard time trying to figure out. I know what trumps businesses. Im not saying its right. Around i know it is businesses are. I dont know what the bidens businesses are. You dont know what its not. You dont know what its not either. You have no idea why or why not they receive that money you have no evidence about it. May i submit this for the record as well . I will say that within this article, it specifically says that the force of a number of trump monies it was unclear. They said they did have businesses there. They said that hes open some Bank Accounts in china. They could not find the source of the money that was paid to him from china. The chair recognizes the chairman from kansas for five minutes. Thank you both for being here today. There is information, lets try to lay this out for the American People. The quick answer, how long have each of you worked for the irs. You first. Is it fair to say that you both had successful careers at the irs . You both been recognized for your achievement there . I believe so. Yes, absolutely. Are you overly equal . I am not, now. When ive made an effort to not be overly, like, i made an effort to be part of it. Do either of you have a burning desire . Have you ever had it to be at a congressional hearing . Are you wanting to be on tv . Are you looking for your 15 minutes the same here. I would prefer not to be. Here i had never imagined that this would happen. Here i am. For the american, people why did you step forward because we knew that the application of justice, we heard all the stories about these crimes that are committed, they are horrible. Without the equal application of, justice i dont understand how we move forward. I dont understand how if i dont do what i can to assure that occurs there are 300 million taxpayers out there, they think this hearing is a big deal because theyre during taxes. They see someone who is. And ziegler . Its a matter of accountability. Its simple, its a matter of accountability. We need to hold those accountable, basically for the last five years, they havent been following proper procedure. We with a part of this, there has to be something built in their. This so this doesnt happen to people. Investigators, lets get the facts out. They received Global Payments for companies linked to ukraine, fought with old through companies. Is that correct . That is correct. 17. 3 million. Mr. Shefali. What is a special agent report, its the reports that recommends prosecution for various charges. Each of us have been choosing. Approximately how many of these over your career have you been a part of . Yes, hundreds, hundreds. Did you complete the special agent report for the hunter biden . Case special agent ziegler offered it. I completed the report. When the special report was in the chain of command, just like you have all been involved, with in the air case hundreds of times did you notice anything out there outside of the normal process that you have grown used to . The changing of lead tax attorneys was inappropriate and out of the norm. No, after that, the leadership quickly trumped the council, they concurred with the charges. We sent it for further approval. Everything he said was correct. Now, mr. Shuffle you recommended felony charges. We all know the answer. Was hunter biden charged with felonies . No he, was not. What role did readily will play in the investigation . She was an assistant United States attorney out of the district of delaware. You met with her and her team during the hunter biden case, correct . Thats correct, in your testimony to ways and means can you explain how leslie wolf who was once again overseeing the case out of delaware saying, during the meeting that she did not want to ask about the big guy she stated she didnt want to ask questions about that. Is that statement accurate . I want to remind you that you are under oath. Is that accurate, your testimony. Can you ask that question one more time. She said, leslie will said in a meeting that she did not want to ask about the big guy and stated she didnt want to ask questions about that. So, theres two fold in that there is the line in the email that says ten held by age for the big guy that was something that came up as a part of ours reviewing what we are going to say during that today, and she immediately said no were not going to ask this and then we essentially had to argue or and then it was ultimately that we didnt know it was unknown. I appreciate that. Mr. Chef, what you stated in public interviews that you guys were stopped from taking investigative steps that could have potentially connect the hunter biden case to President Biden. Is that correct. That is correct. I want to summarize this as quickly as i can we have to credible irs investigators confirming that there are millions of dollars and born payments to shell countries to the Biden Administration, we have hunter biden who most of us wouldnt hire to adopt it, receiving these millions of dollars for services that they cannot come forward and tell us about, and the potentially this is linked to President Biden, but we dont know that for a fact, because you are shut down you are not allowed to pursue the investigative angle that you wanted to. This is something we have to get to the bottom of. Its shameful whats happening i want folks to mark my word that we will not be stifled. The committee will not be stifled by the department of justice or anyone in the Biden Administration. We are going to pursue this and get to the bottom of it no matter what. Thank you mister chairman i yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Gomez for five minutes. Thank you so much mister chairman i just want to be clear whistleblower allegations should be taken seriously. I had a whistleblower approach my office from my first term. One of the things that i learned from that is that there is a clear fact based process that needs to be followed to ensure whistleblower investigations are recovered without political interference this is not whats happening here today when this originated, republicans through that process into the gutter. Here is how we there are more than 50 people identified in the ways and Means Committee deposition on the same topic. They were not spoken to they were not interviewed before the republican majority release these allegations to the public. They didnt take the time to check their facts and the republicans even admitted during questioning that they never interviewed or ask questions are sought to ask questions of these individuals and instead republicans took 13 people who they knew to agree to cooperate their claims why would not they and interview all people identified who might have information in this case there are more than 50 people who are not given the opportunity to defend their names. Respond to allegations are give them important context and facts. To the whistleblower transcript contained on authenticated and unverified documents from unknown searches on the internet. The exhibit used by the adjustment from ohio and the early part of the hearing is one of those unverified documents pulled from the internet. They treat it as a smoking gun you can literally find anything on the internet that doesnt make it true and republicans are refused to verify sources they are trying to give from irs files provided by the whistleblower or from some trusted source but in fact they are not. These documents are an authenticated and we dont even know their real source. What kind of basis is this for a serious investigation. Three, the majority relief transcript with all these errors i cited is before verifying these allegations. They put the car before the horse theyre trying to speak to dozens of valuable witnesses. Refusing to verify the information this whole process and its credibility of the window. Additionally, this process has been taken in by the fact that one of these whistleblowers attorneys has raised a standstill contribution to the republican chairman of ways and means as recently as february of this year and one of these whistleblowers they didnt even come voluntarily, they were none of this inspires confidence in my colleagues are in the process that has been taken. If my colleagues were serious about these allegations, they would have gone through the proper steps to ensure this investigation was done correctly, but they didnt. They rather drag this investigation and this committee into the gutter. And that was approved by the gentlewoman from georgia. If the gutter is where they shoot the live, then they drag us all down there with them. I dont want any part of it. I ask for the consent to submit for the record a letter from their ways and means Ranking Member to take and property of this investigation. Without objection, we with, that id like to yield my remaining time to mr. Goldman from new york. Thank you mr. Gomez, the gentleman, i want to return to the Washington Post october 6th article. I would ask unanimous consent to enter it in the record. And your testimony, mr. Shabbily, before the ways and Means Committee, you stated, quote, there was a leak. It appeared to come from the agents level who was critical of the prosecutors for not charging the case. What you testified earlier was different. Which one do you stand by today . Im sorry, can you repeat that. There was a leak and appeared to come from the agents level who was critical of the prosecutors for not to charging the case. It appears because it came from the agent level. The source was a source familiar with the topic. Okay, it seems to be a distinction. And then you understand that obviously the grandeur 80 information is a felony, right . And best a gate of information and how multi would be a felony. So, would you agree that there would be some skepticism from any prosecutors about which of the agents may be the source of the leak . The time has retired, be feel free to answer the question. Serving multiple leaks of the investigation and the one on december 8th or ninth of 2020, it appeared to have come from someone, as leslie will stated i was asking about october 6th. So, anyone suspicion, right . The agent level. Thats what you said. Gentlemen, the time is expired. Youre the next question or after mr. Powell from texas for five minutes. Thank you, mister chairman. Were talking about obfuscating diverting and distracting. A whole lot of word bombs from the other side of the aisle. It makes no sense to what were here for today. You hear a lot of trump, trump, trump, giuliani, giuliani. I want to thank both the witnesses for being here. Its established that youre very credible and experienced. Your subject Matter Experts at what you do. You let a team of 12 elite agents in this investigation. How long are you investigating the hunter and biden investigation, how long are you doing it for . I started in january of 2020, 2 to 3 years. You both should be aware that one of Hunter Bidens lawyers have accused me of having access to crime. , mr. Shepley, are you a political actor . I am not. Mr. Ziglar, are you part of the Model Movement . I am not. Okay, thank. You i have to ask you a direct question. Its an important one. Are you too out to get hunter biden, are you out to get its all about justice here. And thats why a plea agreement, people ask me to come for clean agreements its outside my. Control justice where you want to get hunter . Justice, rather bombastically claimed when you are speaking earlier that this is all, and quote, normal stuff. Theres no evidence that hunter biden received preferential treatment. So, mr. Ziegler, do you agree with the statements . Normal staff, nothing out of the ordinary, and then hunter biden didnt receive any preferential treatment. Based on my transcripts, i would believe that answer, that question would be incorrect. Would you say that you vehemently disagree with those statements . I dont think it changes my perspective of it. All i can say is that we came for with the information, not following the investigative steps. It was out of the ordinary. Okay. Do you agree with those statements . Yes, this is at the. Ordinary when you read your transcribed interviews which are pretty massive and a vote of itself, its clear that the levels of interference and roadblocks at the doj and other federal governments and personnel put in front of you was astounding if not unprecedented. I was really shocked to see how a u. S. Attorney stonewalled and scuttle the investigation. Go back, december of 2020, the Prosecutorial Team is meeting to discuss the next steps. Hunter biden has received millions of dollars and foreign payment. One of his Shell Companies. To this day, no one can tell whatever did other than having a bunch of money. So, nobody knows what services the companys ever provided. Its december 2020. Hunter is vacating the offices. Hes moving those documents to a storage unit in northern virginia. Mr. Shepley, were you interested in the wet some of those documents might reveal . Yes, we were. Maybe it couldve shed light on criminal activity . Unfettered access to the documents there before the defense counsel can filter them. It would have been very advantageous. It couldve been a traffic trove, we would. Know what happened later. Well get there in a second. Did you prepare an affidavit to search that surgeon . Yeah mr. Ziegler did. That did u. S. Attorney weiss agree that if the unit wasnt access for 30 days that you could execute the warrant . That is correct. So, in and of itself, it seems weird, to wait 30 days how are you going to know if someone accesses it . Is it going to be under surveillance . Is their stake outs . Are we going to have to call Emilio Estevez and Richard Dreyfuss and have them deal with the binoculars and check things out . It wasnt in the transcript. It was unique. It would have been easier than what you just described. You dont have to wait 30 days. Did the assistant u. S. Attorney leslie wolf, what did she do when she learned that you wanted to execute the search warrant . So, she actually first approved and was saying that its going to take approval for us to get this fund. But then came back a few days later and said, no, were not going to move forward with this. I was the one who proposed, well, lets wait 30 days, well get the approval, we will make sure that the storage unit is not accessed. And then we can move forward with the warrant. Her response was, im going to think about it. And then we come to find out, a few days later, they had let Defense Council know we know about the storage unit. U. S. Attorney tipped off the lawyers of the person who is the subject of a yearslong criminal felony investigation. That what youre saying . Did ledley wolf tip off Hunter Bidens lawyers . Regarding the storage unit. Once you know, that the subject of a criminal investigation, any of those documents that can incriminate you are probably going to thats astounding to me that that is direct evidence, clearly a preferential treatment. And that is not normal stuff is that normal . I can tell you that was actually my kind of redline situation. It was a little bit different than emotionally refers to. I dont think we had a seat at the table. It disappointed me so badly. I knew this was something that we were up against. Thats like, okay, thats what we are to do. Have either youve seen Something Like that before in your decades a experience . Feel free to answer the question. No, i have not. I have not. I want to thank you both. Excellent public servants. Your courageous. Justice, thats the anything i want. Not democratic colleagues, not the legacy media, certainly not top officials. I yield back. The chair recognizes mr. Goodman from new york. I would like to get the extra minute that mr. Fallon got as well. Thank you guys for being here today. We dont have a lot of time here. I have a lot of questions. If i cut you, off im not trying to be, route im just trying to get through. Them i want to talk a little bit about the evidence you did have. Mr. Ziegler you are the case agent, how many documents did you say, would you say you gathered during the fiveyear investigation . So, i do believe i may have documents. I am limited by the statute. I would be more than welcome to turn them. I dont mean how many. I mean the number. It was a significant amount of documents. Hundreds of thousands . Millions . I dont wanna put a number two. It there were a lot. Bank records, right . We have a lot of bank records . Both domestic and foreign . That is correct. You conduct a search warrants . Yes, there was reference. Did you do other search warrants as well . When you see other search warrants why do you mean . Any other, electric, otherwise, physical. So, im going to stick to what i stayed in my transcript. There are multiple electronic search warrants. You said you conducted more than 60 interviews as part of this investigation, is that . Right that is correct. Thats a lot for any investigation. I wouldnt say that. I would say in my ten years i dont know how many investigations, i did 60 interviews. I want to focus for a second on the whatsapp we went through. Mr. Shapley, in your testimony, you said that the text message, the whats that message weve been talking about shows hunter biden discussing business with his father. Could you show me where in the text message it says anything about discussing business . With joe biden. If you like me to go through, it i can take time to review, it if you like me to. I dont have the time. Unfortunately, as you point, out i will tell you the only thing it says about it is that hunter biden was sitting with his father. It does not say anything about discussing any business. Mr. Chaplet, you also said in your testimony, and we talked about this a bunch, the agents were prohibited from pursuing leads related to joe biden and the big guy. The agency that anyway. The agents interviewing rob walker they asked you about that, right . They dont use the word big. And they asked about it in reference to that text. Do you recall that rob walker actually said in response to that that he was not aware that joe biden would ever apart of anything that he and hunter reducing . Thats what the witness said yes,. And then you describe a lunch, we talked about it earlier, where joe biden came to say hello at the Four Seasons Hotel to lunch that he was having with cfc executives, right . That is correct. What you didnt talk about is what rob walker said the origination of that lunge was. You testified that he said to, that hunter told his dad, according to rob walker, quote, i may be trying to start a company or a try to do something with these guys. Now, let me ask you something. That doesnt sound much like joe biden was involved in whatever hunter biden was doing with the ceo of sea, if hunter biden is telling him that hes trying to do business with them, does it . No, but it does show that he told his father he was trying to do business. Well, that is true. Hunter biden try to do business. That is correct. So, not only have you no direct evidence connecting joe biden to any of Hunter Bidens business deals, you actually had proof that he wasnt involved. That is the proof that you had. In the end of the day, this was a fiveyear criminal investigation with tens of thousands of documents, maybe hundreds of thousands, unusually, search warrants, aggressive techniques, you wrote a report recommending felony charges. It went to d. O. D. They wrote a 99page memo approval memo. Neither of you saw that, did you . That is correct. What was the recommendation . Approval, discretion, declination . So, i have to stick you testified that it was discretion, which means that it wasnt an approval it was to the discretion of the u. S. Attorneys office which had that doj tax memo. It had information from the defense lawyers, they spoke with and they are the ones who had to prove this case in court. I will tell, you as a federal prosecutor for ten years, i worked with many of your colleagues who do great work. Im sure you do great work as well. I never met an agent who didnt want to charge every possible case. What i noticed in five hours of testimony today, neither one of you have ever mentioned a portion of the case that may not be so strong, it may be suspect. Who may have a phone. The chicago prosecutors have to think about before charging a case. And that is not what the special agent report. Does that time has expired. They went a bit. Over the chair now recognizes mr. Perry from pennsylvania. I thank the chairman. Mr. Shabbily, if you can turn to page 30 of your transcript. I want to say to mr. Shapley and mr. Ziegler, we certainly appreciate you coming forward. Weve heard of alleged whistleblowers in the past. They couldnt reveal themselves. It led to an improper impeachment of a president that was unjustified and im substantiated. I do credit you, i think this is probably, its been very difficult its a, hard choice free to make. I think it was the right one. I commend you for. It minister shabbily, page 30 of your transcript, let me see, the middle of the page, the last sentence. Second paragraph, starting with every single day. Every single day is a battle to do our job. Youre following the letter of the law, youre taking in information, youre doing prescribes, you doing, this you, during this, you get that. Why is your day, thats a chilling lie. What do you mean when he said that . Every time we try to communicate, it was a slow walk. It was pushed. Off we needed the doj public integrity. Approval the o e o approval. It was just used as a crutch. The process is huge to stall the investigation. Ultimately, some people seem to be overlooking. At these prosecutors agreed with these charges. And you finally reached your red line. To answer mr. Fallons question, you are seeking justice, i believe you. Are you are seeking to follow the rules. He finally reached a red line on october 7th of 2022 at the meeting with u. S. Attorney white. Is that a reasonable characterization . Yes, thats correct, what do you mean when you reached your red line . So, throughout the investigation starting in the summer of 2020, my case agents were coming to me with certain concerns. Because we were worried about the discovery process with agents turning over documents at the end of the investigation, we wanted to protect it. I documented them on a recurring basis. Issues that we were having. It was after discussions with my agent. I also saw these things firsthand. So, we got to the point, its a heavy burden. I have a deep respect for the department of justice. The u. S. Attorneys. I worked with them in the past. Ultimately, to conclude that they were doing the wrong thing was just such a high burden. You concluded. That mr. Ziegler, your redlined, i think you, said i dont wanna miss characterize it, mischaracterized a little later, december, 14th 2020, a usa wolf tipped off the Biden Council about your plan to search the storage unit. The storage unit, the message that we are planning to do was a least intrusive. It was a story tonight. We needed to get the records. Again, you are seeking justice. You are seeking the truth. Absolutely, you make decisions based on what you learn. Turning back to you, mr. Shapely, what was your agencies leadership to respond when you try to alert officials outside your chain of command . So, most recently when special agents ziegler emailed the commissioner, they basically threatened and intimidated special agent ziegler, he had violated some type of law. Threatened and intimidated. He forced him, the chain of command, requirements, it does not meet the legal requirement. You are trying to seek justice. Youre trying to seek the truth. Theyre throwing and obstruction in front of you. They are obstructing you from doing it, arent they . So, my complaint for iris investigation and senior leadership, it does not necessarily block an investigation. I do believe that we raise things on a continual basis and they just stuck their head in the sand and they took no action. In terms of the retaliation, thats when they first reared their head. There was no doubt about it. The disclosures were made. They took mr. Ziglar, have you ever been threatened before in an investigation . I have not. I have come to learn that 60 grand juries may have happened before and two others inside the irs. Mr. Shapley . No, not for my own agency. When my friends on the other ideas this ill say they havent retaliated against you, simply not true. There is a law, five ust 20 303 b 13. They placed unlawfully you and your fellow supervisors under a gag order. Mr. Shapley and mr. Ziegler, what we are talking about as an obstruction of justice. You are seeking justice anywhere obstructed. It is against the law. Mister chairman, i yield the balance. The gentleman yields, back from florida. Thank you, mister chairman. Gentlemen, thank you for appearing today. Thank you for being a public servant. There should be no retaliation against you as whistleblowers. Unlike my colleagues that said nothing, and supported President Trump when he retaliated and fired him and escorted him from the building for appearing in an investigation, that shouldnt happen. To you of course, they said nothing when it happened to other people. We heard a lot about the biden family and biden associates. Bs, what is the apostrophe, but not joe biden, we didnt hear a lot about joe biden because he didnt do anything. Has nothing to do with him. My colleagues talked about foreign countries. Foreign entities. Trying to make it all scary for the American People. Of, course President Trump got five point 4 million from the chinese when he was president because they were leasing stasis and trump tower. He erica says president xi totally perfect. Jared kushner gets two billion dollars even though he saw totally kosher ivanka trunk shes doing business with the chinese while shes working in the white house, totally beautiful, right . What i bring that up they want to have credibility, they have none. The lack of their credibility questions your credibility. Not because of you personally because of what theyve done over the last several years. So, the chairman says your credible. Do you want to know what they feel about you . People like you. They work in, government i got pages of it. It goes on for years. You know what, ill read a couple of adjectives. Trump has called people like you, socalled whistleblowers, fake whistleblowers, partisan people. Political hack jobs, scams, frauds, traders, cowards, spies, losers, clowns, the eggs, puppets, unelected bureaucrats. My favorite, the deep state. By the way, you members of the deep state . Are you members of the deep state . Its a rhetorical question. Did you stop paying your deep state is . You did not attend the latest deep state meaning. Thats why youre not in the deep state. I cant tell when they want people like yourself to be in the deep state. Not a deep state. Depending on what the deep state of staying. Again, it undermines their credibility. It undermines the government. It ever minds they trust in governments. It undermines institutions. Throughout all of this, four years, four years of it, they said nothing. Now you know, in an effort to own hunter biden, okay, they are assembling nude photos of him. Having some intern have to sit in a room and blowup these photos and put it on poster boards. Figure out, oh which ones are beyond the pale. Mr. Shapley, you said the doj was slowing down the investigation. Some of that happens when President Trump was president. And, i found it when my colleagues tried to ask both of you these questions about when your perceived knowingness of this happens you struggled for a period of time to admit that it started under President Trump. Was President Trump directing that doj to slow down the investigation . No, he wasnt, just like President Biden isnt now. If theres any perceived issues with doj, thats what doj not the president. Mr. Ziegler, you said no ones above the law regardless of political affiliation. Do you think the president s soninlaw, do you think the president s soninlaw Jared Kushner who works in the white house couldnt get security clearance until the president made it happen . Was put in charge of with no exhibits mathematics periods got two billion dollars from the saudis. You guys made a lot of noise today about 17 million. What about two billion. Do you think a, person thank you for that question, the time is spent. Im limited to my testimony. I, understand i got. It think about it. Two billion. Two billion dollars. Foreign country. He was put in charge of air politics well he worked in the white house. They have no questions about the. Its totally great. Its totally wonderful. Right, joe biden has been in washington for almost 50 years. We did hear about hunter until about a couple years ago. Why, if you pay attention, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain like the wizard of oz. Donald trump is in so much trouble. They cant save him. What they can do, they can spend taxpayer money. All the time, why they control the hearing, convince the American People that somehow joe biden has done something wrong. There is no evidence. None, zero, zilch, not a. You know how i know that . Because they couldnt bring up their own impeachment. They had to bury it in the committee. On immigration, not on this topic. There are members of this committee that filed articles of impeachment. They didnt bring it up for a vote. They buried it. Again, not on this topic. There is no evidence of joe biden. Thank, you mister chairman, i yield. Back the chair recognizes thank you mr. Chairman for being here today. Now, mr. Shapley, mr. Zeigler, if you could each just quickly, 20 seconds or, less summarize what did each of you when you criminally investigated hunter and joe biden, as it relates to china. So, specifically related to china. There is the cfc, had sunwest three, state energy hk, yeah, those are, i believe theyre the three entities and my transcript. I would echo the same thing in my transcript. And there is, a chinese billionaire. Hes tied to intelligence gathering agencies. His company is the cfc. Cfc c, c e f c. What is the connection between hunter biden and cfc. Im going to have to stick to the confines of my testimony. What i can tell you is that there may be some documents that are responsive to that i can turn those over to the Means Committee. They would vote to get those released. Yes, we would love to get those then. And i see that hunter biden received more than 8 million in foreign payments including 100,000 from cfc directly. 664,000 from state energy hk as you mentioned. Another chinese company. I 325,000 dollar capital contribution made into harvest on hunters behalf. An Equity Investment fund. Were you shocked to find that the then Vice President son received all of these, particularly the ones from chinese entities . As i tried to stay earlier, in this position yet to be nonpartisan. It is in a matter of shock. Its not the political position or the party. Just the Vice President son. So, im not accusing you of political bias here. Follow the evidence. See where the transactions are coming from, interview witnesses try to figure out what the purpose of those transfers of money where for. Mr. Shabbily, and march of 2017 Robertson Walker received a 3 Million Dollar wire from a chinese company. State energy hk, it took place just two months after joe biden left office as Vice President. It was in your testimony that you said this was getting into place. It was said today that this would be assembled before he left office. It came to fruition. Can you quickly discuss the Robinson Walker connection to bidens family . Yeah, special agent ziegler, i dont think i spoke about the 3 million. Any of that information related to 3 million we can turn over to the committee and they can vote to release it to you. Thank you. I see that hunter biden and gun when deng i. C. E. Fc associate established hudson west three elise e. Each owned a percent of the company between august of 2017 and october of 2018. They had over 4 million to hunter biden and over 75,000 to james biden, now, can you discuss these payments . My colleagues are wondering what the apostrophe is when were talking about biden. It seems like there are more bidens who are receiving money. And an answer to his question regarding President Biden and an answer to this, question any documents that we believe we may have in our possession, we can turn them over to the house ways of Means Committee. They can vote to release it to. I request that you release those to them. And then also we have the situation with gallup and he was doing with the cfc. I guess that makes you a chinese spy so i guess hunter biden is a chinese spy according to their allegations. Do you have any information about gallup that you can turn over to the ways and Means Committee . Any information, we can turn it over to the house thank you, i appreciate you gentlemen for being here and for your bravery and courage for standing up. We know that we saw a lot of evidence today about millions of dollars being shuffled through these companies weve seen delayed warrants to impact a 2020 election. Prosecutors instructed not to involve the big guy. The optics are clear. Hunter biden sold access to his father with an influence peddling scheme. In my opinion, it compromises the current president of the United States. The biden family has never sold anything in their life. But their influence in washington, d. C. Every business they have is monetizing. Thank you for making that very clear today, gentlemen. I yield. The gentlelady yields back, the chair now recognizes miss mcclain from michigan. I know its been a long day, we appreciate you, the American People appreciate you. To give some truth and honesty back i thank you again. Weve heard rhetoric today. I want to talk about it. Just the facts. Just the facts. Mr. Shabbily, in august of 2020, your team obtained a july 2017 whats at mashhad from hunter biden tuesday, whoa at shinys businessman. And i want to read a few lines from that message. I will refresh your memory. I quote, please have the director comey, not james or tony or jim, have him call me tonight. I am sitting here with my father. We would like to understand why the commitment made has not been fulfilled. If i get a call or text or anyone involved in this other than you, i will make certain that between the man sitting next to me and every person he knows and my ability to forever hold a grudge, that you will regret not following my direction. I am sitting here waiting for the call with my father and quote. That is a fact. I dont make that up. Thats not my opinion. Thats not rhetoric. This is a message from hunter biden. Its a search warrant from a backup i. My phone, your phone . It was from hunter biden. It was from hunter biden. I thank you. It was linked to hunter biden. Now, mr. Shipley. Where the bidens complicating a deal with the fcc timeframe . I would have to stick to my transcripts. I dont know if i describe that. I think that is a portion of the Whatsapp Message. However, i do believe the full chain. If its, relevant we can turn it over to the house ways and Means Committee. They can vote to release that. It would be appreciated. To set the stage. One person has come forward, tony bubble in, ski contemplating a deal it was cfc even earlier than 2017. Hes come forward and said that. Is tony bottle in ski that tony referenced in the whatsapp . We need to stick to the transcript. In my testimony i reference sinohawk. The sino hawk deal. We know the deal never went through. That relates to see espn china. The tony that he is referencing, do you believe that to be tony . I did not mention anything related to tony bob lindsey. Or what i can do again is provide any information related to him to house ways and Means Committee. Thank you so. Much and then the reference to james. Is there a reference to james in there . Is that james gilley are . Again we might have to get that one too. Again, its just critical that we stick to the fats i appreciate early speaking with facts not on a partisan basis. If we can get that that would help. And another message. They respond to the early message. Kathy, i will call you on whatsapp. Hunter writes back, oh, my friend. Oh, okay, my friend. I am sitting here waiting for the call with my father. Again, my concern is the ability that he tells the truth. To coverup is always works. How many times did we hear joe biden say not involved, not involved, not involved. I have no idea. He sitting right there while hes making these alleged petal influence peddling. Mr. Shepley, what does this message in decay to you . Can you comment on that . Yeah, they indicate that we needed to take additional investigative steps to find out what the facts and circumstances were. It was simply not supported. What do you mean it wasnt supported . Special agent ziegler so, the normal part of attacks investigation, and you want to understand why individuals are earning money. If someones paid a significant amount of money in order for that to be income, not again, if not alone, you need to understand the substance to why that person is paying that. And thats why you need to understand the four corners of the transaction. The next standard operating procedure, its usually held for normal members of society. That standard operating procedure. What youre telling, you werent able to pursue the. Thats correct. Im at our time. Thank you so much, mister. Chairman thank you again. The chair recognizes mr. From tennessee. Thank, you mister chairman, members, thank you all for being here. When i was a younger man, the country wasnt going to well. One night it really culminated in something. I remember my daddy brang, saying, lord lord, please dont let us lose our country. Thats what ill be making tonight after i hear this testimony because it sickens me. Mr. Ziegler, i know youre a man of faith. Mr. Shepley, after tonight, maybe you are you are, and i am not sure. I will be remembering you all in my prayers. Mr. Ziegler, i appreciate your incredible courage. It takes guts to get up here and put your families and your spouses through all this garbage. Its not right. Thank you all sincerity. I appreciate that. Its also come to my attention, mr. , ziegler that after this hearing was already underway, research is circulating from, quote, Hunter Bidens legal team, unquote. Suggestions that you had leaked sars and other investigative information, someone who had released the information online. Is there a statement youd like to make about whether youve leaked any investigative information to someone to reveal on the internet . Im sure 100 bidens legal team is obviously watching right now. These dirtbags are trying to summary through the press. Its disgusting. Id appreciate hearing a direct answer from you, brother. Theres two parts to that. It was that release of that bank report. My name was listed in there. My name was out in the public as one of the agents working this case. That was maybe two or three years ago. That came out. And then on top of that, me and my husband were in a report thats out on social media and twitter. A person with the same last name that i have. Who ive never met them. Ive never turned over information to them. We happen to have the same last name. For my sexuality, my sexual orientation, my husband was put out there. Information related to me. It was in an effort to discredit me. Im the person working for the liberal side. I must be a plant. It was awful the things they were saying about me. I can tell you that i have never turned over any information regarding this case to anyone, anyone related to the marco polo report. Someone with the same last name that i have. Thank you, i appreciate that. Im sorry. Thank you so much. Im sorry your husband and you had to go through that misery. Mr. Ziegler, how much do you think hunter biden and his business associations, associates russ see from the burisma board . Im going to need to refer to my transcripts. Let me help you out 666, 000, 667. That sound right . Is that a monthly transfer . Im not sure. Its a monthly transfer, im in the wrong line of work. Burisma paid everyone involved 6. 5 million. Okay, okay. When did hunter leave the burisma board. Can you hold on one second . Its not in the confines of my transcript. That would be something i have to turn over to the house committee. What was the money received from burisma sent directly to hunter biden in 2014 . It was not. Why would they do that . Why would they switch and send it to the Business Partner . So, i can talk about my normal experience. Hold on one second. I can provide this in an additional testimony to the house ways and Means Committee to explain that. Okay, id like to get that. Mr. Ziegler, also, Rosemont Seneca both high, they dont do anything, they dont produce anything. Skaneateles, they didnt do anything. Owasco didnt do anything. Hudson west three didnt do anything. All these affiliated companies, are they all hundred biden affiliated companies . I believe i referenced them. I knew of that was. But i didnt reference how i knew of them. I should address that. I believe my point is youre familiar with these companies. Were you able to identify what the bidens here did in the business of selling and what they did with these companies . Either one of you all. Mr. Shapley . Again, im going to have to you, the response to that, the reason why some of these payments were received, we can turn over as a part of an additional testimony. My point, is they did not sell crappy ties. They sold influence. In my opinion. And im out of time mister chairman i would like to close and say if anyone wants to text me and all of this, i hope you all get to the bottom of this. I hope you do something about it. That would be my wish for this committee. Thank you so much. That is the goal. The chair now recognizes mr. For five minutes. Thank you mister chairman. Mr. Ziegler and shabbily, were you able to pursue this investigation in areas that may implicate the president s involvement in his familys businesses . We were hindered from following that. Would you echo . That, in my testimony i reference the campaign. President biden said during a debate, i will quote, my son has not made any money in terms of this being about it. When you talking . About it china i have not had the only guy who made money from china is this guy. Donald trump. Hes the only one. No one else has made any money from china. Mr. , ziegler was the president telling the truth when he said that his son hunter biden had not made any money from china. I dont know what the president at that time was thinking. What i can tell you based on what i testified in my transcript he did earn money from china. Right, in march of 23, just a couple months ago, the committee had bank records that hunter biden, the president son james biden, hallie biden all receive money originating from trying to Robertson Walker llc, a Company Owned by rob walker. A well biden associate. When presented with this evidence by reporter, the president said, thats not true, mister ziegler is it true the president s family received many originating from china which was funneled through the Robinson Walker account . That is correct. As it pertains to hunter biden investigation, mr. , sadly you sat on a meeting on october 7th 2022 with mr. Way. You testified to. That is that correct . Thats correct. Later this, year june 7th, mr. Whites publicly stated in a letter to the Judiciary Committee the following. As the attorney general, as theyve stated i have been granted ultimate authority over this matter. Including responsibility for deciding where, when, and whether to file charges. That statement is dramatically and consistent with your recollection of a meeting thats happened october of 2022, that . Correct corroborated documentation of that meeting. It clearly shows that thats not accurate. How is that not accurate from your recollection . During that meeting, the United States attorney white said he wasnt the deciding person. He said it right out. He further went in, they had to approve any charges first to which as of march 16th, 2023 we know they had not approved anything at. He further goes and said that the u. S. Attorney had declined to allow charges to be brought there. And that he requested the special Counsel Authority around that time of denying the process. The process would lead him to another President Biden point of view and the cat district of california. He said that meeting on october 7th 2022 that california declined it. He would have to request the special authority again. Right, so during that meeting, subsequent letters that mr. White produced senator graham and the Judiciary Committee. He seems to corroborate that meeting. Some of the facts in that meeting. Maybe he didnt have that authority, right . So, yes the second letter on june 30th clearly shows that he is saying that he has full authority. He has altman a thorny. He immediately goes in and said, but my authority is geographically limited. I dont understand how you can conclude anyway from that statement on the june 30th letter that he has authority. Simply not accurate. Thats something that you saw early on, that something that you saw as a problem. What options remain in bringing charges against hunter biden are in the district of columbia. I guess it would have been the special attorney authority that ive seen recently referenced when d. C. Said no, we know d. C. Said no, we were having conversations with our fbi counterparts of how do we bring in a special counsel under the situation. I think that once we knew there was going to be potential problems with going to President Biden appointees with moving this case forward we were actively trying to figure out how his agents get that to happen. Still, to this day there is not a special counsel assigned to this investigation. The approach, was quickly, hear the approach was to go to d. C. With matthew grave where he was not able to bring charges under a biden appointee he went to the Central District of california, mr. Strata not able to bring charges. So, to both of you and conclusion in relation to the attorneys ability to obtain special Counsel Authority and bring these cases and either california or d. C. Do you agree with attorney general garlands testimony that, quote, the United States attorney white has been advised that he has full authority to bring cases in other districts that he needs to do that. I dont believe thats accurate. I think the key word there is he has. I dont think thats accurate. I think thats refuted in the later letter by u. S. Attorney david white. Thank you both, thank you both for being here and for your bravery and for testifying today. I know its not easy on you or your family. The American People in this committee appreciate the work that you do and that you continue to do and the truth that you are shedding light on. I yield back. He yields back. The chair recognizes mr. Edwards from North Carolina for five minutes. Thank, you mister chair. Mr. Ziegler, did you ever ask for access to Hunter Bidens. Com in your investigation . I do recall requesting access. Were you granted it . I dont believe thats in the confines of my transcript. I do know. Did you look at the laptop, so, i can jump in there, i documented a meeting where we had this discussion. It was included in the house ways and Means Committee transcript. Special agent ziegler asked multiple times that he had certain pieces of certain downloads from the devices. He did not have access to all of. Them and thats when leslie will said thats because prosecutors decided not to give it. You effectively were denied access. Mr. Shapely, in your interview with the ways and Means Committee, you stated the following regarding efforts to obtain a search warrant for, at the, time former vice President Bidens guesthouse. We talked about Storage Units earlier. Hunter biden had been saying and insisted that leslie wolfs assessment of the situation regarding the likelihood of such a warrant being approved. There was more than enough probable cause for the physical search warrant there. The question was, whether the juice was worth the squeeze. She continued the optics that were a driving factor in the decision on whether to execute search warrants. She said a lot of evidence in her investigation would be found in the guesthouse of former vice President Biden but said theres no way that we will get it approved. I open this question to both of you. In the course of your distinguished career it in the iris, has a doj official ever attempted to argue against the ex while acknowledging that such a warrant being carried out would likely yield positive ever than sheer a results for the investigation . Mr. Shapely. My response would be the argument would not be required. It would be discussions with the investigators and working with the prosecutors. If you are on the same page, it would move on. With the circumstances and probable cause being achieved knowing evidence was there i dont know how she could have not allowed us to execute the search warrant. I mean, it goes further even to the storage unit when you talk about access to something and you are relying now to turn the records over to you versus you having access to those records. They are not being potentially destroyed. There is a multitude of reasons why youd want to execute a search warrant. Mister chair, id like to share some thoughts. This hearing is much like arguing with my wife. We start out on the topic, and then we go all kinds of different directions. It seems like thats what im hearing at least from the other side today. Ive heard over and over that President Biden has not been implicated or proven for any wrongdoing here it is the intent of this Oversight Committee to continue to look at the evidence that we have here. The issue at hand however is that it is joe bidens son that is the target of the seems to have had preferential treatment on a number of levels. The investigators were denied access to the laptop. The biden family was tipped off with the warrant on the storage unit. The investigators were denied access to the guesthouse. Even knowing are suspecting that there was evidential, or evidence in that. And that is what concerns the American People. That is the real two tiered Justice System that we see here. Its not that joe biden has been proven to do anything wrong yet. Its that joe bidens son has received preferential treatment through the department of justice. I think thats a shame. I appreciate these gentlemen being here to share their story. The gentleman yields back, the chair recognizes lang more from North Carolina. From new york, buffalo new york. Ive been to the place. Thank, you mister chairman. Thank you to the two very brave whistleblowers for whats been a very grueling hearing today. I am very grateful for openly testifying in front of everyone. This must be challenging despite providing accurate testimony. That goes directly to my point. Its important to sum up a few things. I just want to ask questions to mr. Shapely and ziegler. Its true that you provided testimony to the house ways and Means Committee, correct . Correct. How long did each of your interviews last . Around seven hours. A little bit more than six or seven hours. Okay, when do those interviews occur . Mine was late may of june 1st. Of this year. Where democratic staff present during your interviews . Did they question you . Yes, they did. Democratic staff was president an action and was present. Did you give your testimony knowing you can be criminally prosecuted if you lied to congress . Yes, i did. How long is your testimony been public for the American People to read . For the last three plus weeks probably. Around three weeks. Youve been questioned by republican and democratic members today, correct . Thats correct. , given all of this, you gave over 15 combined hours of testimony. Hours of public testimony today. This has been public for weeks. Not one Single Person has been able to contradict a single fact about your testimony. That is incredible. Its that impressive. I speak to your credibility, your attention to detail, and now as whistleblowers. The attacks you hear today arent actually because of your testimony, democratic talking points are meant to protect the biden like the doj and the irs. Your testimony speaks for itself its a powerful. I am so glad you are willing to voluntarily come in today. Thats why mr. Chairman, yet another example of why this committee was continue this investigation into these matters. Im proud to yield back. The gentleman yields back. Can i Say Something regarding one of the topics that was brought up here regarding the 99page memo, there was discretion given in there. From what i understand, discretion there is also a language that ive seen included in tax memos, it references the need to charge the felonies, that you have to charge the felonies essentially. I would ask congress when mr. Weiss comes to testify here, what did that . What did that memo say. In august when he got it from his team, what did that memo say, did it approve felony and misdemeanor charges . What happened that after . Thats crucial for you guys to understand. Thank you, mr. Shapely, did you have anything else youd like to add . The department of Justice Division has a policy called the major account policy. That basically mirrors what special agent ziegler is saying. They actually teach it when they come out to speak to agents and provide training to agents. The major policy is that they have to charge the felony. They cant just plead away the felony just to get out of the potential trial. They cant rely on charging misdemeanors when there is felony charges on the table. As weve said all along, these prosecutors agreed with multiple felonies none of them were charged. I have one more thing to add to that. I go back to the last spring, david weiss is going to do the right thing. Hes absolutely going to do the right thing. Lets hold off. We are moving forward. We get to august. We get approval and recommended approval is for the felony and misdemeanor charges. So, how do we end up where were at today . We just dont know. We gentlemen, would yield last 30 seconds . We were told the same thing about mr. Weiss as well. So, we share your disappointment. Mr. Ziegler, you said there were foreign documents related to this matter, related to the investigation . Yes, would you provide the documents to the committee. Yeah, i can provide them to the ways and Means Committee. A normal process for obtaining foreign documents, a corresponding request. You can request those corresponding wires. Thats the stuff you can take. Getting foreign money transfers. Would you also provide the full transcript . So, i spoke my attorney and well turn it over. The chair now recognizes mr. Berlin center from missouri. Thank, you mister chair, good news, im the last one. Next to last. I want to reiterate. Its the American People, they should be pest and angry about this. No one gets away with not paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes. Having just blown over. Turned into a misdemeanor charge. Especially when you have other criminal activity involved. You know, its funny, this hearing, no one denies the fact that hes guilty of this stuff. We all know hes guilty. The question is, i think the question is, to what extent was his father aware . Its kind of like schrodingers cat. Either he was aware of whats going on and he knew what his son was doing and hes or hes not maybe he was completely clueless. Absent minded. Unaware of what his family was doing. One or the other is the truth. You cant come to any other conclusion rather than that. The question is, the problem is, if you are not able to determine or list that box and determine if the cat is dead or not, was joe biden truly involved or not. Mr. Shabbily throughout the investigation, mr. , ziegler wet investigative steps that would have been ball joe biden, whether you would like to pursue but were not able to. I guess in my testimony, i talked about the atmosphere. When we are interviewing witnesses. Talking about specific areas, specifics being the campaign that we were prevented. There was rolling eyes with us. He was a harsh environment. You are turned down directly as well. There were situations to where i was not able to ask questions, yes. You arent able to listed and find out whats underneath. There were certain, and our investigation you want to follow back. That is a job, you worked the case. I know that you were tipped off about it. It was tipped off about the storage unit before you were able to actually search at. What were you can you say what you are looking for, you built up to this point. And now you know there are strong indications there something. There i believe in the garish testimony. He moved the higher office. He being hunter move the office into the storage unit. So, this was off computers. I specifically wouldnt have been in there. Okay besides tax crimes what other violations were being investigated by any other agency . Those arent on the confines of our testimony. What other charges. Offshoots. Whether other agencies that were working with you that were working on some other fbi was working the case. So, you cant speak to them. It was a Foreign Agent registration act. I cant speak to that. What i can tell you, not only do we investigate tax crimes. We also investigate money laundering. Any instances of money laundering, we are allowed to investigate the crimes. Mr. Congressman, if i can add, in my transcript i do say that there is a fair issue at play. There was a fair issue for of we was that, is that pursued . We are not part of the investigation anymore. I mean thats our whole point of a special counsel. If there is these offshoot investigations, were going to rely on the same thing to happen. And your investigation, you knew there was foreign Bank Accounts. Foreign money wires. Are you aware the biden family has or owned Bank Accounts . Any record that i would have related to that i can turn over to the house ways and Means Committee. They could vote to release that. Thank you, i yield back the remainder of my time. Were you ever given access to the forum in 23 that allege joe biden and hunter biden were a part of a bribery scheme . The reason i ask that that allegation is consistent. The way that the oligarchy claims he gave the bidens the bribe is consistent with what weve seen in romania and other countries. They set up all these companies and then they launder the money through the Shell Companies back down to the different biden family members. I wondered if you knew about that forum before it became public. I could speak to. That in my original transcript, i wouldnt have been able to say that i knew anything about 10 23. I provided the supplement of who i saw open Source Information from the former attorney general bill barr. He said he thought the document he said to deliver for the investigation. The team is far, to the best my, knowledge never saw that document. So, the team that was in charge of investigating the biden family protects crimes, never received the fbi documents that alleged oh biden was involved in a bribery scheme. The answer is. No everyone knew youre investigating the bidens for at least tax evasion. Generally, speaking if theres any types of money coming and, if there is a criminal talks investigation ongoing, i dont see how that information could be withheld from the investigators. I can tell, you i can provide this in my testimony. There is things that were contained on that document that could further cooperate other information that we might leave having an issue. It could be regarding a foreign official. So, if we have information regarding that in a document or witness, we can further corroborate later evidence and like i said if thats something we have we can turn it over to the house committee. Thank you, thank, you the chair recognizes miss lieu enough from florida. The fbi, they first learned about the a laptop that allegedly belong to hunter biden and had evidence of potential crimes in october of 2019 . Did the fbi first learn of it . I dont know if i speak about who first learned of it. Okay, the answer would be yes. Thank you. Is it true that the and of ember of 2019 by Hunter Bidens icloud account. Yeah, thats in the transcript. Transcript riled the fbi analyze computers. There was a report that the fbi analysis had taken place. Can you point to the page in the transcript hateful. Transcript 12. Could you repeat the question . Isnt it true that the fbi verified the laptops authenticity of 2019 by matching the device cloud against the icloud account. They performed an fbi analysis. Yes, yes. Mr. Ziegler did you see this report . I dont think that i talked about that in my transcript. Im assuming that was probably very frustrating. You are conducting an investigation. So, i could speak to this again. I did continuously document a long meeting about the last half. Special agent ziegler confirmed that he pointed out individual pieces of data that he was provided. And then he asked why he hadnt seen other pieces of data. And thats when attorney wolf told him the prosecutors were withholding information from the investigators. Whats important with withholding, they never said what they were withholding. I think that is important. So, for my understanding the u. S. Attorney said that you havent seen it because for a righty of reasons they kept it from the agent. They kept this information from leo. I think its important to note, correct . Thats correct. Isnt it relevant evidence for you in your teams to review mr. Ziegler that this evidence would help you conduct your investigation . In an everyday normal investigation you, would want to know. Youre the investigator. We are the ones that are supposed to process the information and provide the relevant information to the prosecutors. So, we should note absolutely everything that were looking at. We have to testify to its one day. Its safe to say that its not a normal practice to withhold evidence. Its not a normal practice to withhold and not tell us what youre withholding from us do you know who made that decision to withhold information . That i do not. Its not in my transcript. Okay. Okay. Mr. Shapley, when you learned about this information and you are denied information at the same time, this is october 2020, correct . Yes. At the same time do you remember Hunter Bidens laptop being discussed or rather by the media . I remember the discussion of the laptop. I think everybody heard about the laptop and i dont know if i talked about it or knew about the media suppressing it. I think its important to note that the fbi learned about the laptop in 2019,. Thats 2019, not 2020, the fbi authenticated the last top and november of 2019. And then they take possession of the laptop. They do analysis, these analysis and information are not provided to you guys. The irs agents conduct in the case. Mind, you the folks running the nuts and bolts of this tax fraud case. Theyre learning about all this information, and yet at the same time there denied access to it. Meanwhile, the media is actively working to suppress that. At the same, time 51 National Security officials plan signed on to a letter saying that the fbi, the fbi has authenticated russian disinformation. Mind, to joe bidens son, which i think is important to note that many of my colleagues try to make this about race, theres a two tiered Justice System for black and brown people. Yet, we are investigating, according to their, terms a man of White Privilege who is being aided and abetted by this administration and being criminally covered for by the apartment of justice and yet somehow thats not supposed to be a topic of the session. I have 41 seconds. Left would you like to say anything for the record for the American People so they would know whats really happening . I have something. Theres two things. I believe that leslie wolf and u. S. Attorney for my work, they have said that. We did a great job in this investigation. I want to make that clear. Youll were not out here to get people. Were here for accountability. We learn from it. Thats the most important part of why were here. You are doing great. I know that you are not conservative. I know youre not a republican. I will say this, thank you for bringing faith back to some parts of the iris of people understand that just because your last name is biden doesnt mean your held above the law. Thank you. Chairman, i yield my time. The gentlelady yields back. That concludes our question. Again, i want to thank you all for being here. Im going to yield to the muchimproved Ranking Member. Mr. Castillo cortez for york for closing statements. I will take the golden id like to thank the witnesses here today once again. We acknowledge fully that this is not easy. Your respect, rather your service, your public service, your respect and value. Thank you for your testimony. Yeah, its important for us to summarize much of what we heard and saw today. Overall, what the matter is about. You have to handpicked by attorney general barr has for four years investigated together with a dozen agents and at least for prosecutors and the tax division of the department of justice, the son of President Biden. Hunter biden has been charged with a felony and misdemeanor. Two misdemeanors. He is pleading guilty to several crimes and submitting to sentencing by an appointed judge. A trump appointed judge. However, we have also seen an effort to find an issue with the prosecution. The existing prosecution. This is a person who has admitted to a crime. And finding evidence of political interference. Its a very serious charge. Much of what we saw today honed in on a conversation and a testimony. A conversation. One of todays witnesses was involved in it. In which mr. Shabbily heard mr. White to say that he was denied special counsel status. That accounts had been contradicted by the u. S. Attorney white who has reiterated several times that he had full authority to bring any charges in any district and have received assurances from the department of justice that if he needed special attorney status to bring the charges youll be granted. We are left here with two possible options for the story. Either mr. White who is appointed by trump, interested by attorney general barr also serving under trump who is lying to protect the Biden Administration. Or respectfully disagreed with the charges that todays two witnesses wanted to bring as professionals in their professional opinion. This agreement overcharges is not uncommon the irs criminal tax Council Attorneys have disagreed and charging decisions as we heard here today. 90 of the. Time and this particular case, reviewing attorneys that irs than the tax addition raised issues with the proposed charges. Witnesses described how mr. Weiss expressed some concerns about the charges. In fact, in some of the testimony we saw, mr. Shabbily recognized with regard to at least one of the charges with himself recommended he could. I am quoting from testimony. Some issues with that that would preclude it from being charged. Now, i understand the two witnesses who testified here today are just appointed after five years of investigation. I believe you all are honorable serving professionals truly. And mr. Weiss disagrees with this analysis of facts. There was absolutely frustration that to not quote have a seat at the table. They made his decision about how to charge in this case he did charge. And that was a decision that he in charge of the case was empowered to make the question, i believe, that is very important to address is why we are holding these hearings today despite what we have seen as deliberately lobbying for this hearing by a political candidate. Donald j trump. What we also taught today was the revival of certain conspiracy theories around ukraine for us promoted by Rudy Giuliani it during the first impeachment of trump in 20 and the reelection campaign. We did not bring that up. I was first brought up by the route that required it today. Sherman comer started the hearing by asking these witnesses about burisma and other members of the committee again raised the sector of these debunked conspiracy theories. It has been debunked time and time again. Including by trumps own department of justice. That being said, this is the problem. Bringing these conspiracies into these committees. Maybe get more. It does not stop. Today, we have gotten a new conspiracy theory. One that requires us to believe that david weiss, a trump appointed u. S. Attorney trusted by trump appointed attorney general barr has somehow been complicit in abetting and concealing deep state conspiracy to protect hunter biden on behalf of the Biden Administration when they were selected by donald trump. This is a theory which has apparently been proven unsuccessful given that hunter biden is now criminally charged on facing sentencing by a trump appointed judge. Today, also marks a new realm when pornographic images were paraded in this hearing room. Chairman comer, last october you were with the sorted details of Hunter Bidens life. You are quoted as saying, quote, thats counter to a credible investigation. I agree. Sadly, that is a reflection of how rogue some individuals here have been willing to go on their effort to attack the president family. I dont care who you are in this country, no one deserves that. It is abuse. It is abusive. It is republicans truly want to get to the facts here and they want to understand why mr. Wise decided to the way he did, lets hear from mr. Rice, until then, we must move on from these theories and focus on the issues that matter to the American People like ending the scourge of gun violence that is plaguing our country, combatting the climate crisis, standing up for a constitutional rights. Yes, going after the anonymous amount of an equity and injustice in our tax system. With that, i yield back. The gentlelady yields back, i want to ask for your consent to enter in the record three letters from myself, chair jordan, and jerry smith to the director of secret service, the attorney general, requesting more information pertaining to our investigation. Without objection to order as well, entering into the record the two thank memorandums we have already submitted to our friends in the media that we are trying to teach Financial Literacy to, id like to enter those memorandums into the record. Again, i want to thank you all so much for what youve done today. I cant imagine what youve been through. I apologize for what youve been through. This is this committee is all about. The house Oversight Committee is to identify mismanagement in the government. To do, that we depend on whistleblowers. Whistleblowers coming forward and telling their story, thats what you all have done. To think that there are people on the committee who have tried to question your credibility it is pretty low mark for the history of the house Oversight Committee. Again, thank you, what weve learned today, just to go back six months, when this investigation started, week became the majority, they laptop, according to many of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, many of our friends in the media, was russian disinformation. What we now know, the laptop contains many of the financial records, the financial documents, the communication between both the president as well as other members of this family, with many of these associates, with many of these foreign nationals. So theres a clear path of evidence, ill say that investigating the biden family influence is like investigating a waiting there through a snowstorm, there is so much evidence laying around. We confirmed today what we have been saying on this committee for several months. The bidens took an over 10 million, 17. 3 million to be exact. From adversary, we have no earthly idea of what they did to receive that money. I think that that is concerning to every american. We have evidence that hunter biden spoke to his father about his business, and that hunter used his fathers name to shake down the Chinese Communist party person. We saw that in a Whatsapp Message that you are released. We have seen that another emails and correspondents from the laptop. We learned unfortunately these brave an incredible was a lowers have been retaliating against the irs inundated by the biden shady legal team. And their laptops in the press. For that i apologize, and i hope that that does not deter others, prevent credible whistleblowers from coming forward. You know, all roads lead to joe biden. The big guy. The guy who was set to go in business with the Chinese Communist party, linking it, the entity that wired money to the biden family, as well as to go up to, as mentioned earlier, by one of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle joe biden was even set to Share Office Space according to an email with this Chinese Communist party backed entity. And that is a concern, that should be a concern to every american. Because whether you are republican or democrat, whether you are rural or urban, one thing that we can agree on is that americans attest public corruption. That is why we have an irs, thats why we have an irs Criminal Division, that is why we have an Oversight Committee, that is where we have an epics committee, that is why we are supposed to have a judicial system in america that provides equal justice for all. But we have to work together, and we have to be honest, and we have to respect our checks and balances. And what we learned today, as troubling as anything, is that your investigation, that you spent years of your life on, that we have spent six months investigating, where you see a pattern of suspicious activity, where money flows from shady Foreign Companies and from shady foreign nationals, through Shell Companies that are then laundered, and that is according to six different banks in the suspicious activity reports, wandered them an intern parental payments to the biden family. For things that we have no idea what they did to receive the money. And as part of that years long investigation, the fbi is sitting on the whole time a document that alleges joe biden and hunter biden took a 5 Million Dollar bribe from a ukrainian oligarch where there are big records that show that the bidens were receiving money from this entity. It was already evidence there to show that. I dont know whether that allegation is true or not, i know the fbi never investigated it. And what we know from today is that they never communicated with the irs Criminal Division that spent years investigating this, so there is two things that is happening here with the Oversight Committee, with respect to the president of the United States. There is the investigation of the biden corruption, and then theyre there is the investigation of the coverup, again, i want to thank you all for the work that you have done over the years. We appreciate that, the American People appreciate that, the taxpayers appreciate that. And we look forward to receiving the Additional Information through the ways and Means Committee, through the proper process, we continue our investigation. With that, and without objection, all members will have five legislative days, within which to submit materials and submit additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be forwarded to the witnesses for their response. If there is no further business with an objection, the committee stands adjourned. [silence]

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