Next, former law clerks of late Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg joined biographers and federal judges in remembering her life and career. This discussion comes from Georgetown University law center. It run for an hour and a half. Good evening. I am bill trainer, dean of georgetown law. I would like to thank you all for joining us for tonights tribute to Justice Ginsburg. These past few days have been painful and hard, and i, like you, have been heartbroken. Justice ginsburg was a giant in the law, a champion of justice ad equality, and she was also treasured member of the Georgetown Law Community for many years, beginning with her husband martys joining the faculty. She was remarkably generous with her time. I will never forget walking into on so many occasions. Every year she spoke to our first year class. Walking with her out onto the stage, looking out at hundreds of students, many of them wearing notorious rbg tshirts and seeing their faces light up and uploading ecstatically as , eventered the room though her Security Team always told us that she would leave right after her talk, she always stayed to talk to students and since friday, i have received so many photos from our students of the selfies they took with her. Notes about what a wonderful memory it was. It has been so lovely to see them. It is so hard to believe that she is gone. Askednights tribute, we some of the members of the georgetown Law Committee who knew the justice well, to come in and reflect on her career. You will be hearing from professors Mary Hartnett and Wendy Williams, her biographers. He will be hearing from two of her former clerks, professor bernstein, and you will be hearing from two federal judges when you her well, judge nina and judge margaret mckeown. If a question occurs during the event, put it in the chat with your name so i can recognize you. After i ask of the questions, i will have a few closing remarks. Joining us. For thank you all of our speakers, and above all, thank you to giving us aburg for life so worthy of celebration. Now, the last time Justice Ginsburg look at georgetown was just before the pandemic. And in february, she came and spoke about the 19th amendment in a conversation in no auditorium with judge migrate mckeown. So it is fitting that we begin with comments from the judge. She is away from her class so she can give some introductory remarks but after she talks, she will have to rejoin her class. Judge, thank you so much for talking to us and we look forward to your remarks. Mckeown thank you. All of us are at a loss now. My time with Justice Ginsburgs book ended by georgetown. When i was a thirdyear law student in 1975, i took one of the very first classes in sex discrimination. But there was no textbook and there were no papers. So the professor said, perhaps you could write to professor Ruth Ginsberg at columbia. I did that. She was incredibly generous in corresponding with me and sending me papers that i could then use to incorporate into my final paper on sex discrimination. It was just that small act of generosity and kindness that i have seen by her over the years so many times. When i became a judge 22 years ago, our episodic conversations and correspondence turned and blossomed into a wonderful friendship. We shared many meals, we shared music. And weeled together talked together overseas on many occasions one of those occasions. , a member of the audience said, what is your success as a woman lawyer, to Justice Ginsburg. Justice ginsburg said, my success and that of the other women here judge mckeown, i and others, is we have husbands who are supreme chefs. So the good news is just as ginsburg recognized limits. That was probably the only limit that i know of. She did not cook. , i, when i became a judge thought many times about things i learned here and there. First of those is i have never seen anyone work harder and more efficiently than Justice Ginsburg. One time we were teaching together and she invited my family and me over to her po ol and her deck in order to play. What that meant was that my husband and i and marty played tennis, pingpong and swam in wrote a lawnd ruth review article. She loved the law. Always learned that there is no substitute as a judge for that hard work. A second thing is looking at her writing. There was such an economy of words and so carefully chosen. It really there is for all of us to go back and read some of her opinions. The other thing that was very important to her and certainly important in any Collegial Court is collegiality. She showed that to the extreme. When those who wondered, how could you be friends with Justice Scalia when you have such a diversion views. She would smile. Of course, he was her friend. They shared music. Hey did not share but that didnt mean it can be friends. She also taught about the value of dissent. She was looking forward. I think one of her most significant dissents in the Lilly Ledbetter case where she suggested to congress that it might get its act in gear with respect to this problem of statute of limitations and sex discrimination. Justices often suggest a congress that they might take such an action, but it doesnt happen very often. Within a very short time, we had the Lily Ledbetter act. Finally, i certainly learned from her the importance of how you write those dissents and the opinions. She never had a cynical view and. Hould never had a mean pen she wrote about the case. She didnt write against another justice. That was so important. One area that is often overlooked with Justice Ginsburg is her commitment to international law, and also the use of domestic law in international courts. She wrote eloquently on those subjects, but more importantly, she traveled widely to visit other countries, to meet with other judges and justices and lawyers, and so many around the world have learned from her, not just those of us in the u. S. System. We can never thank her enough for her contribution to gender equality. She changed the conversation and she changed the landscape and the language of law. Importantly, she inspired future generations of lawyers. Rbg camenotorious out, i wondered, would she think it was inappropriate and undermined the sanctity of the court . No. She embraced it. In embracing that, she brought the Supreme Court to the american public. I think that is emblematic of what you saw this week, so many people went to the Supreme Court spontaneously to honor her. She was a stunning intellect, an incredibly warm heart, generous, playful spirit, and importantly, she had a moral compass that always pointed to justice and equality. I was very privileged to be one of her many friends. Thank you, judge mckeown. That was very beautiful. And lovely tribute to the justice. Thank you for joining us. Judge mcewen thank you. Anor our next speaker will be professor Wendy Williams of the georgetown law faculty. Professor williams . I think we are some technical problems. For a moment, if i could, call on professor dori bernstein, one of the justices clerks. And a member of the georgetown law faculty. And director of our Supreme Court institute. Professor bernstein. Professor bernstein i clerked for thenjudge ginsburg on the wasntrcuit judge, but i a typical law clerk and i didnt get the job in a typical late. In the fall of 1989, i was working for the d. C. Circuit judge they staff attorney, writing memos for motions and pro se appeals. I was seven years out of law school, living with a 1yearold insomniac. I got a call from r. B. G. s chambers, the judge wanted to speak with me. The judge picked up the phone said she noticed my writing and wanted to know if i wanted to clerk for her. To my eternal mortification i didnt immediately say yes. Instead, i wasnt sure i could work the hour she is expected of her clerks because i had a young child. What followed was a prolonged silence from the person who devoted years fighting for gender equality and parents. Then she asked me, what are your hours like now . So i told her, i usually arrive around 8 30 in the morning and i have to leave by 5 30 to get to the Day Care Center by 6 00 or where they start charging 10 a minute in late fees. Once i got home i couldnt work until the baby was fed, bathed, and cajoled into sleeping which usually took hours. She said she thought she could accommodate my schedule and she hired me. So, as a married mom in my 30s, i joined the cadre of mostly male, and newly minted harvard and yale law grants clerking on the d. C. Circuit in 1991 and 1992. Then i got pregnant, and it wasnt pretty. Fors hospitalized dehydration because i couldnt keep anything down, and i stayed home in bed during the course of the Winter Holiday recess. Mery week, the judge called to keep me in the loop about what was going on in court, and when i returned to chambers after the new year, she put me right back to work, assigning me cases just like the guys. I didnt apply to clerk for the d. C. Circuit right out of law school. I wouldnt have scored an interview. But Justice Ginsburg saw in me is potentially didnt know i had. Her belief in me and the opportunity to work for her changed the entire trajectory of my career. R. B. G. Didnt just fight for equality and opportunity in court, she lived it every day as a lawyer, a mother, a judge, and a boss. If i could just add one last thing, r. B. G. Died on that you of rosh hashanah, the jewish new year. On the eve of rosh hashanah, the jewish new year. The justice wasnt at all ofs but her entire life embodied the amendment central to the torah justice, justice, we shall pursue. But first it was her lifes passion an purpose and she retained an unshakeable belief that justice would ultimately prevail. Mr. Treanor thank you. So powerful. Thank you, dori. We will now hear from another one of the justices clerks,. Rofessor thank you for the opportunity to speak this evening. Not surprisingly, my first memory of Justice Ginsburg involves my daughter. I went to law school after completing graduate school and working for a while. My wife nancy and i had rebecca midway through law school. I vividly recall in my interview with the justice that we spoke as much about being a parent while going to law school as we did about the law. She asked how nancy and i managed to care for rebecca while nancy was working fulltime and i was at school. I did my best to surgery the amount of parental responsibility i took on for fear that otherwise i would be disqualified on the spot. She shared her own experience of the demands of being married and kerry for her daughter while in law school. Only later did i learn that one of those demands also was. For marty when he had cancer at the time. I later brought rebecca, then 3 years old, into chambers to meet the justice. She was shy and the justice, perhaps seeing some of her shyness in rebecca, was deliked was delighted when she finally burst out with my teachers let us have ice cream at snack time. The justice smiled and said her teachers never allowed that. Later when rebecca was in middle school, the justice graciously sat with her for an hourlong interview for a school project. Later, the justice spoke of her high school graduation. Many of no doubt that the opportunities rebecca has had would have been denied to her if not for the work of Justice Ginsburg. The justices iron year and work on behalf of women has always had a deeply personal meaning for me. Ben wasonderful son born a couple of years after my clerkship with her, the justice sent a gift to him and also to rebecca. So, as the justice wrote, she wouldnt feel left out. This was enormously thoughtful. As we told the justice afterward , of course, we also took it as evidence that she could help but strive for equality between males and females in every sphere of life. When i clerked for the justice, i confess that it could be a bit unnerving sometimes to offer my analysis of a case, to wait for the initial silence that was common in conversation with her, as those who knew her were aware, and then to hear her quietly utter a complete paragraph that would not require the slightest revision if transcribed into print. That paragraph elegantly got to the heart of the issues in the case. It invariably sent me back to my desk with greater clarity and with a commitment to live up to her example. Is wellknown and rightly celebrated for her work in holding the law accountable for its commitment to equality. What also made a deep impression on me when i worked for her is something that many may not fully appreciate, this was her deep commitment to the idea of law itself. To its integrity, to its promise and her awareness of its , fragility. This led her to approach the law with both vigor and compassion. In terms of vigor, the justice was what we call a lawyers lawyer. She gave close attention to the language of the law, its logic, and the meanings it could plausibly bear. She honored these elements. And would not interpret the law in a way that would do violence to them. On occasion, this led her to conclusions she would not have preferred. She saw this, however, as a way of being faithful to the fragile , whichment that is law requires constant and patient nurture and a spirit of humility. For her, being rigorous was an act of good faith. A way of caring for the law. Justice was well aware, of course, that legal interpretation is a human enterprise. Caring for the law also means being attentive to the aspirations embedded in its language its logic and layers of , meaning. She knew that legal meaning is rarely selfevident. This required approaching the law with compassion. With empathic imagination and with deep appreciation of the human beings for whom law is created. It reflected commitment to words that those in the Georgetown Law Community know are incribed on our library. Law is but the means, justice is the end. I have learned these lessons. She called upon us to meet impossibly high standards with the same combination of rigor and compassion that she modeled for us. Of gracepersonal sense and pain with her death. It is a remarkable testament to the legacy of quiet, softspoken woman who i never heard raise her voice, who believed in the of reason, the promise of respectful persuasion, and the integrity of the law that she is mourned deeply by countless others who feel a personal sense of loss even though they never met her. In our grief, i hope that we are all consoled and inspired by the words of a poem that my law clerk susan williams, sent to me over the weekend by maya angelou, when a great tree falls. In lines that seem to have been written with Justice Ginsburg in mind, maya angelou says that out of grief for the death of great souls, we can move ahead by remembering. ourast lines of the poem they existed. They existed. We can be, be, and be better for they existed. Thank you. Mr. Treanor thank you. So lovely. Professor Wendy Williams, are you there . Very good. Professor Wendy Williams, one of the justices biographers. Williams having california on fire, alabama underwater, the climate changing, the movement of the dignity and equality for the lives of black people in this country, and the most important president ial election, at least in my lifetime, probably in yours, and now we have lost r. B. G. With significant implications for the Supreme Court and the most significant issues of our time. Theres so much to say about her and her life and her work. I had the privilege of knowing her since 1971. Of that movement that she was part of, which was to make women equal in law schools and in the law of the land, and i watched her in action. So i thought i would talk about a bit about what that looks like ,nd what she achieved, which is to use an overly used word, truly awesome. Well, i am going to talk about the time before she became a judge, and before she became a justice, and before she became have thoughtnever back then knowing her , personally, a public icon with songs written about her, plays and movies done in her honor. Books written about her life and work, murals on city walls, mugs and bags and tshirts, even little onesies fur babies, all with her face etched on them. Both of my grandchildren wore their onesies in their young day. Yeah, there was even a grasshopper named after her. She was an extraordinary bright, brave, principled, focused, persistent person. Plus, she didnt require as much sleep as the average person. She couldnt have achieved what she did had she not had all those qualities in abundance. And, against the odds, which notably included, as she said of her early adulthood, she had three strikes against her. She was a woman. A jew. And a mother. Woman and mother proved to be the most significant. Heres what she dealt with and learned from as she entered the Legal Profession. Against the odds always, she was admitted to Harvard Law School which just a few years earlier had begun admitting women. Georgetown law was slow to open its doors, i should point out, to women of color and women people of color. At harvard she was one of nine , women in a class of 500. She was married to marty ginsburg. Later on our faculty. And in 1955, gave birth to a daughter. She had chosen her spouse, or as she called him, her life partner, very wisely and id love to talk about marty as well. I hope somebody else might do that. She applied to a dozen or so new york law firms for a job when she graduated, but not one would hire her, even though she was near the top of her class at harvard and tied for first in her class at columbia, where she did her third year, and she was in the law review. She got a clerkship with a Federal District court judge in the Southern District of new york only because one of her teachers at columbia went all out for her. Promising the judge that if he hired her and was displeased he had, he himself had lined up a male graduate who was ready to replace her. And if he didnt hire her Columbia Law School would send , him no more clerks. She was hired by him and she shone. Although she was recommended by one of her harvard professors for a clerkship with justice frankberger, the justice declined to hire the mother of a small child. Fortunately, she then got a job at Columbia Law School for a special twoyear project on international procedure, spent time in sweden, learned swedish. She even coauthored a book on swedish criminal procedure with a swedish coauthor and was honored with an Honorary Degree from a university in sweden. Next, she became a law professor. Again, against all odds. In 1963, the year she was hired , she wass law school one of only two women hired onto law faculties that year in the entire country, and that was not an unusual number. The dean who hired her at leaned that she would not get the same salary as a man would have gotten because she was married to a guy who is making a good living as a tax lawyer. In 1965, she had her second child, james disguising her , pregnancy in her motherinlaws larger clothes. Most women who got pregnant in those days got sent home. It had happened. It had happened once before to her, and she wanted to avoid that. Fortunately, baby james was born in early summer number, just before the School Semester started that term. She gave birth and went back to teaching. In the fall of 1969, she finally having written about civil procedure and related hot topics, she got a substantial raise. Turned. The tide womans Legal Movement had began to emerge. We had increased in number because the women, who had increased in number because the vietnam war was siphoning off all the men, were allowed into law school to fill the gap. And i would note, older women finally saw the opportunity, and many of those women had been inspired by the Civil Rights Movement and the womens liberation movement. Which had followed on that. Indeed, Rutgers Law School had become so attuned to the issue of race and put such an effort into addressing it after the newark, itriots in was called the peoples elected loss. She was probably the least liked there. As for rbg, who finally had tenure, and therefore job security, she turned all her energy towards advancing the equality of women under the law. Heres what she did. 1969, shet days of began to work with others in the American Association of law schools to get the aals to adopt a position against discrimination against women in american law schools, which it did by a substantial vote. , aals also created a committee on women in law school to further the project, and a few turned into a Permanent Committee of the aals. R. B. G. Played a major role, helping to draft the original policy and serving on the committee. If i remember, she even shared it for a while. Second, r. B. G. Sponsored and right the first law review in the country dedicated to womens issues. Rutgers women were reporters. She published some of her own work with them. Many such law reviews followed. Three, she taught with the encouragement of her students on in thee on women in law spring of 1971, 1 of the first courses on the subject, which included, in her case, in working with her students on an onslaught of gender cases showing up in the new jersey aclu office and in the National Office in new york city. She was beginning for the first time to become not just an academic, although she remained an academic, but a practicing lawyer as well. By the spring of 1970 one she spring of 1971, she had teamed up with her husband, inty, and took on the appeal a case that is featured in on the basis of sex movie. Of 1971, r. B. G. Was , of a casep a brief decided in november of 1971, the first case the Supreme Court had ever in its entire history struck down a law discriminating against women on the grounds that it violated the equal protection clause. Four, by 1972, two things had changed in r. B. G. s life. The first had to do with the aclu. Beginning in 1970, the aclu board altered its position on the equal rights amendment and on how the equal protection clause should apply to women. The acluened what tradition viewed as the special protective laws. Which limited the hours they could work the jobs they would be allowed to perform. Shortly after rbg won the read case in december of 1971, the aclu board created a board to work for womens equality in the legislature and rbg agreed to head it. The second thing that happened in 1972. Rbg got hired with tenure by Columbia Law School, which should have hired her in the first place. She could spend half the time in the first year they are working with a womens right project in getting it off the ground. She continued to teach the course she had invented at rutgers, where her students not only studied the law, but worked on cases and legislation of current importance and interest that furthered womens equality. Five, with one of my mentors of berkeley law school, and kim davidson, rbg produced the first casebook on sex discrimination and the law in the United States. And as far as i can tell, in the world. Her chapters were the ones on constitutional law and International Comparative law. There was a second casework, i have to mention this, by barbara [inaudible] and Ruth Ann Herbert were very efficient. I am proud to say that two of those authors have been on our faculty for many years. I am also proud to say that two of those authors also were among teachers that even preceded rbg in teaching women in the law courses. They were among the very first pioneers who taught this. And barbara babcock, who taught a course on the subject at georgetown. So, that was quite a contribution to the law school, even before people were thinking about it. Six, she participated in numerous cases, either in council in the decade of the 1970s. She did this all while she was teaching and writing and giving speeches. She argued eight cases and lost only one, which she knew she was going to lose. Her careful strategy earn her recognition as the Thurgood Marshall of the Womens Movement, and more than any other person in that decade, changed the law of the land with respect to equality between men and women. This was her insight and guiding principle written by a law professor which will go nameless. Which i found quoted in the New York Times two days ago. Her Litigation Campaign succeeded in targeting laserlike pervasive Legal Framework that treated women as yen and men as yang, and either rewarded them for their compliance or penalize them for deviation from it. She saw that male and female were viewed in law and beyond as a natural duality, polar opposites, interconnected and interdependent by nature or by divine design. And she understood that she could not tied one half of a knot. Male plaintiffs were essential. Sex discrimination hurt both men and women. And both seemed to be liberated by Ruth Ginsburgs vision of sex equality. You might have heard, as i did, the youtube song pleading, hang on, ruthy, hang on. If you have not heard it, you might want to hear it. I believe if anybody could do it, she could. She tried her best to hang on. But it was not to be. What a difference she has made with that one remarkable life she was given. Thank you very much, when the. And now, judge . Thank you so much dean trainer for the chance to be here and remember our friend and esteemed Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg. Justice ginsburg is so wellknown for and was justly proud of her opinion in the United States versus virginia, the case that opened the Virginia Military institute to women students. That was a case i was assigned to when i was an assistant to the facilitator general. It was my task to write the briefs for the United States. I worked really hard, as the Principal Deputy general himself himself. And it was humbling to see how it to thensburg took next level. Things have been written about the Virginia Military institute opinion, and why it was important. I just want to highlight a few attributes. One was that it really got at a key aspect of sex discrimination that had always been very tricky and bedeviled advocates. Lines inhe sexbased the law seemed respectful and protective rather than based in malice. Laws that protected women from working as bartenders or from being drafted to serve in the military, not out of disrespect, but out of a certain kind of respect. Justice ginsburg, in the Virginia Military institute opinion, moved away from speaking in terms of equal protection, preventing sexbased laws that rested on stereotypes. And really reframed the standard. It rested on over generalizations about what is appropriate for most women are most men. So a stereotype people thought had to be insulting. It had to be something that you would not want apply to you. And the way she reframed the standard in the vmi case was to point out an overgeneralization, a generalization that did not apply to the atypical woman who wanted to be a cadet at vmi or the atypical man who wanted to be a Nursing Student at the university of mississippi Nursing School. Those were just as harmful. Stating the test in terms of over generalizations and the invidious nests of stereotypes she got away with this but focused on the inaccuracies in the way that it was infringing on the liberties of individuals. There was an invitation suggested in prior cases that, in the right case advocates should ask for strict scrutiny of sexbased classification. The Solicitor Generals Office took up that invitation and asked, at the same time saying that they did not get was needed, that we would win the case on intermediate scrutiny, but that strict scrutiny was appropriate. At oral argument became evident that the court had no interest in moving to strict scrutiny. Justice ginsburg, in crafting the opinion for the court, saying what she called skeptical scrutiny. And the way that it was defined, the kinds of justifications that would be inadequate was quite close to strict scrutiny. But this was a judgment clearly supported by conference and what she thought she could get support for that both pushed the law but only did it as far as the votes would support. I wanted to point out a couple of other things that characteristically was Ruth Bader Ginsburg. One was the way she used fact and history to paint a detailed picture. To me this reflects she did not treat her colleagues as malevolent if they were disinclined to see the importance of the case, but she brought them along, she told the story with the detail, but would help people appreciate and understand a reality that they might never have experienced or fully considered themselves. So she very concretely, and in great detail, she explained how , itsnd its uniqueness courses and program and alumni connection, the very thing that made it a desired education, but the state did not provide anything that gave those unique chances to the women who wanted them. It was the detail of the context that allowed Justice Ginsburg to explain why it mattered. It mattered because of power, and it mattered because of social meaning. The excluding of women shut them out of vmi, and shut them out of a source of great power within business and political circles in virginia and beyond. And symbolically, the insult of the commonwealth refusing to extend that opportunity to women was a slight to all women. The opening of its doors was an assurance to all who believed that the categories of male and female should not over trail should not arbitrarily these things so that they would not be excluded from paths that should be given to them. We have seen her trademark work in going only so far she can with maximizing the opportunity to package the standard as the skeptical scrutiny, thats as close as she could get to strict scrutiny. We see her resolving one of the key stumbling blocks of sex discrimination law and describing the context of the case with great historical and concrete detail. The case did not just dropped the case did not just drop from the sky, but it was a of cases that have come before. It was only in recent years that Justice Ginsburg began to speak out more broadly to the nation, and to the ages, and to become the icon that she became. But let that not distort our sense of who she was and what she did and how she lived out her first 80 years. As the other speakers mentioned, she had a long and less notorious career before that. It was only recently that she had a chance to revel in the acclaim that she has had more publicly. Many of us now are looking to Justice Ginsburg for inspiration. She was an incredible example. Shes gone. And shes irreplaceable. We are blessed. We are bereft. The sources of hope in the arc of her life and career that we might carry forward. I was thinking about this especially because we are at the law school. How might people who are lawyers to be relate to her legacy and s meaning fort them. Justice ginsburg was very much a product of her time. And she had this disarming and modest way of painting herself as lucky, like deflecting her talents. But she was in the right place at the right time. To some extent that was true. She was a product of a moment in the nations history when the Womens Movement was taking on new energy. People were lodging complaints, they were either too timid to make before or were sure they would lose. But in the 1970s they could become winners because there was a spirit in the land. A growing understanding that the way things had been was not right and should be changed. So, she was lucky, she was in the right place at the right time, but she also was an incredibly astute observer. She took how much she observed and helped to give it a broader and lasting voice in the law. She provided the Legal Protection for which there was a broadly felt social need. So that is a legacy that you, the Young Lawyers and lawyers to be of the Georgetown Law Community, can carry forward. Some of the work that she mapped out remains to be done. There are other challenges that the people of this country face that call out for justice. One of the ways that you can carry on her legacy is to be in the right place at the right time, like rbg was, to develop legal responses that are not fully formed to realworld problems around us. How did she do it . How did she do it . Another lesson that i would commend to you is that she was an incrementalist. She took things very stepbystep. And the famous vmi opinion was the culmination of many, many decades of very gradual and painstaking work. Her early cases she brought on behalf of men. At that time, almost all the judges on the lower courts, and certainly the justices in the Supreme Court were men. She used cases in which men were denied benefits. A male married to a female Service Member who would not get Survivor Benefits that a female whose husband was a Service Member would get as a matter of course. She would bring these on behalf of men, in part recognizing that the male judiciary could identify more with those cases. How else did she do it . She was incredibly inclusive. She was forever crediting the people who helped her, who worked with her, who supported her, and on whose shoulders she stood. A sweet example is a way in the Virginia Military institute case, she goes on the courts opinion by justice oconnor, who was there for a university of on theippi versus hogan policy of the premiere Nursing School in that state. She said vmi was the bookend to the program. How, in the end, did she have the strength . This is one of the most moving things about this story of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Her personal life, her marriage to marty ginsberg. Marty was a Dear Colleague of ours at georgetown law. We knew him well. And famously, he was a great cook. I would repeatedly run into him at the checkout line at the grocery store. He was confident enough to boost ruth without needing to compete with her. Without ever feeling diminished by her success. How can we carry on the legacy of Ruth Bader Ginsburg . I would say that all of you who know a woman who could benefit from the kind of love and support that marty gave to ruth, its on you to honor ginsburg by women theirose martys. Thank you. Thank you for thinking in that powerful way about how we honor her legacy. Thank you. Our final speaker before we go to questions is professor mary harnett, who is also working on the biography of the justice. Professor harnett thank you, dean and colleagues. Justice ginsburg so loved students. Her students, our students, all students, which is why she found so much time to them, for you. Even during her busiest days she found time to meet with womens law fellows at georgetown, and to make a surprise visit to my seminar. I remember well when she was scheduled to appear in january of 2017. On the day she was scheduled to appear we found out that president obama would be giving his farewell address to the nation. I emailed the justice and asked if she would like to reschedule. I received an email back from her, terrific, dedicated, devoted judicial assistant. Assistant, kim mckenzie. She said, the justice would like to know, do you think it would be possible to watch the address from the classroom . And do you think the students might like to stay after class and watch it with me . And we did. I would like to read to you some of Justice Ginsburgs own words over the years, giving advice to students, often georgetown law students. My i would like to thank Research Assistant for helping to pull these together. In Justice Ginsbergs words, yes, we have a long way to go, but how far we have come. Our country has gone through some bumpy periods. But i will tell you the principal reason why i am optimistic. See, mye young people i lawyer granddaughter my law , clerks are determined to contribute to the good of society, and to work together, so the young people make me hopeful. They want to take part in creating a better world. Think of malala. Think of Greta Thunberg in sweden. Yes, im putting my faith in the coming generation. These next are from remarks here at georgetown. I can tell you everything i have done in the law, every job i have had has been richly rewarding. You are going to a fine law school. You have the opportunity to take a multitude of courses. I hope you thrive in that education, and that you come away from it with the knowledge that a true member of the Legal Profession has an obligation to give back to his or her community. You have a privilege, a monopoly on legal representation. Because of that privilege you owe an obligation to help make things a little better for people less fortunate than you. I hope while you are in law school you will think about things you care about. Is it the environment . Is it discrimination . Is it the way we run our election . Whatever it is, whatever your passion is, pursue that. I can tell you that i have gotten more satisfaction out of things i did for which i was not paid, than i did for most of my paid jobs. I wish you well. This next is from a speech that the justice gave to students in paris. And as you leave here and proceed along lifes path, try to leave tracks use the , education you have received to help repair your community. Take part in efforts to move those communities, your nation, and our world closer to the conditions needed to ensure the health and wellbeing of your generation and generation following your own. This to students at the university of buffalo. True, we have not reached nirvana, but the progress i have seen in my lifetime makes me optimistic for the future. The challenge is to make or keep our Community Places we can tolerate or celebrate our differences while pulling together throughout the common good. The justice often recounted to students the advice her father in law gave her when she was deciding how to handle law with her excepted baby. He said, if you dont want to go to law school, no one will think less of you. But if you want to become a lawyer, you will stop feeling sorry for yourself and find a way. Justice ginsburg continued. Following that life just falling , thatlowing that advice important turn in my life i asked myself, do i want this . And if i do, i tried to find a way. In closing, Justice Ginsburg said, with vision and action we can join hands with others of like minds, kindling lights with our paths leading out of the terrifying darkness. Thank you Justice Ginsburg. Thank you, students. That was so inspiring. Now, we can bring our panelists forward so we can receive questions from the audience. Normally when we are in the auditorium, i will read the questions from the students and i will ask them to stand. We cannot do that but i will read the student students name. The first question is from sarah, class of 2022. Questions for the clerk. What values did Justice Ginsberg impress upon you . Well, she was definitely big on working really hard and she would never expect more of us than she expected of herself. She gave us a very high bar to meet. She was very focused on precision. You have to get everything right. You owe it to the court and the lawyers. Court, theit to the litigants, and the lawyers. She was very clear on not wasting time and energy looking backwards on regrets. If you made a mistake, try to do better next time. Learn from your mistakes and move forward. She used her energy well. Very good. I learned an enormous amount about the craft of the law and how much it requires such meticulous some might say compulsive, attention to detail, and that has never left me. At the same time, it was not simply in the service of technical proficiency. She had a humane vision that shaped the way she approached it but she believed we owe it to be litigants and the law, to the court, to get it right. People have spoken, i think wendy in particular, about her attention to the facts. Those were really important to her. These are human beings who are trying to exist under difficult circumstances, and she wanted to know exactly what was going on. So she insisted that we be aware of every piece of material that could possibly be relevant in deciding the case. It is a remarkable combination of the justice of someone who was great at the legal craft but also had extraordinary gifts of empathy and concern, and deep values. I think when we reflect on her legacy, the combination is so powerful and it is a model we should all aspire to. One more question for the clerks, how did Justice Ginsberg shape your legal careers . Ms. Bernstein totally transformed it. I remember toward the end of my clerkship, she said to me, what do you plan on doing after the clerkship . I said i might go back to the councils office. I got the silence. Then she said, i think that would be a waste. I just felt like, ok then. I guess i will not be doing that. I ended up going to the equal Opportunity Employment Commission and being involved in employment discrimination cases for the next 18 years. I would always approach a case and think, what would the judge want . How would the judge look at this . It is almost like when you are in therapy and your therapist is always in your head, when you clerk for someone like Justice Ginsburg, she is in your head for life. Mr. Regan most immediately, the year after i clerked with her, i worked for Justice Brennan on the Supreme Court and i was a much better clerk than i would have been had i not clerked with Justice Ginsburg. He really should have sent her a gift basket. [laughter] or i shouldve have sent her a gift basket. I had gained so much, i feel, in the craft, the analytical rigor and the confidence, as much as anything else. So in the short term, that was one way in which she had a powerful effect on my career. All three of the clerks that year are in academia now and she was a wonderful example of how someone could be involved in academia and be engaged in the world at the same her at the same time. Her career was really a model of that. That really inspired me over the years. I attribute both of those wonderful gifts to her. She clearly had such a profound impact on both of your lives. I think you are both part of her legacy, as are so many of her remarkable clerks. Mr. Regan one of my wonderful students later clerked for the justice. Ruthanne deutsch. So i guess that makes her a grand clerk, i am not sure. But, ruthanne i hope she is , listening. She arranged for an official portrait of the justice. It was a wonderful ceremony. I feel like she continued to influence my life and those after me. That is terrific. Judge, a question from professor robin lenhart who joined our faculty. Can you discuss the justices opinions involving race and how her stance on gender may have informed them or vice versa . You are on mute. Sorry. That is a great question. One of the things i think she really had a deep appreciation of was the symbolic harms of forms of formal different treatment of people based on sex and race. For a number of good reasons, the courts have been demanding in terms of the kind of harms they are willing to remedy. But i always had the feeling with her opinions both on sex and race she really understood the still stigmatic, emotional harm, the cultural harm that are nonetheless really profound and affecting. I think that shows up in both of those areas. And i think as others have said, she was a person of great empathy and just as she encouraged men to see the equal protection sex project as their project, i do not think she had any hesitation of thinking of the project of seeking quality for people of all races as her project. Those are some of the ways i would say there is some crosspollination in her view. Wendy, you are nodding. And then mary. One of the justices favorite speeches she gave repeatedly on the issue of human dignity, she had a broadvision of equal justice and racial equality. In the speech she gave on brown versus the board of education she said that brown and the forerunners along with the movement for International Human rights, powerfully influenced the womens rights litigation of that day in which she was engaged in the 1970s. Thurgood marshall and his it stepbystep about the pernicious effects of Racial Discrimination and advocates for gender equality follow the path. But she also wanted to make sure people understood there were differences. She was often referred to as the Thurgood Marshall of the womens Rights Movement but she wanted to make the point that some things were different and that she never felt her colleagues lives were in danger because of their advocacy and they knew they would not have trouble finding accommodation. Professor Wendy Williams . Professor williams the question of race, i think her opinions do speak for themselves in the important way that nina was talking about, and everybody can actually. Her dealing with the human facts of each individual person. One of the things she said in the case of sex discrimination, and i am sure it applies elsewhere, people should be a free to be you and me. As individuals we should be free to make our choices. It should not be because someone is deciding to label us one thing or another because of who we were born or what our Sexual Orientation is or whatever. The other thing is she did live her convictions. Long before the case is here, in long before the case this year in which the lgbt Group Discrimination is included in of sexthe notion discrimination, she was performing marriages for people who were gay or lesbian. She did that five or six times. She never made a big thing of it. She just did it. To me, that speaks volumes. Let me ask, this is for the panel. This question was asked most frequently. It was asked by several. They all asked how can law students and Young Lawyers honor Justice Ginsburgs legacy . Judge pillard i am not sure how much i have to add except i want to honor her but also bring her down to earth. She listened to what was needed in her time and in a way it started very modestly. She found a way to respond to the need. And when you get to know her or become aware of her at the pinnacle of her career, in her 80s confident and renowned, it is hard to really appreciate that she started just where you are. [laughter] there is so much need. And whatever your passions are, the method she had of learning about an issue, of absorbing it with empathy, working very hard. They are methods that are available to all of us. And she has always been a formidable character as a very hard worker but she is also someone who loved her work. It was not an impression of her to work that hard. She surrounded herself with people she cared about and expressed her care and generosity for her clerks. She knows people have human needs, to be in families. But she just enjoyed what she did and if you can find something in the law that you enjoy that much and find people who will bolster you, it is incredibly sustaining. And one of the things in education from a place like georgetown gives you is some choices and some ability to find a place that meets the needs and allows you to have a on issues you care about. Anything you would like to add . Mr. Regan i think for those who may have only known her as the notorious rbg, it is hard to overstate how that would seem to those of us who knew her earlier. She was not flashy. She was a grinder. [laughter] she did the hard work. The unglamorous work. She read the records line by line. I think nina said it well in that she genuinely loved what she did. And i think perhaps she may have also appreciated that she had been given an opportunity that perhaps growing up she thought she would never have and she was not going to waste it. And by god, she was going to make the most of it. She saw it as a privilege. I would say for students who have been able to come to georgetown to study, that is not a bad approach to take. Whatever you end up doing, do not squander the opportunities you have. Figure out what it is you care about. Figure out ways in which you can further what is important. My god, take it seriously. She certainly did. That was an essential part of why she was able to accomplish what she did. Is almost like hamilton in the musical. She would have loved to have been in hamilton, i am sure. I know when rebecca asked her in an interview she did at the court, if you had not been a lawyer, what would you have done. And she said, i would have loved to have been a soprano, but i did not have the talent. Gain and operas loss. She did not waste her shot. [laughter] wendy, same question. Ms. Williams just a last thought about what motivated her. She had some great losses growing up. Her sister died. When ruth was a baby, her sister who was six years old died. There was a lot of grief and her family for a long time and then her mother got cancer when she was going into high school and died one day before her graduation from high school. She did not participate as she had been going to do in presentations in the graduation. But her mother, for four years, watching her mother, she just developed this enormous sense of respect for her mothers courage and strength. And she also felt, having watched her mother and father in action, that her mother was very, very bright and never had a chance to make a life of it. She was a bookkeeper. But to ruth, she should have been a Supreme Court justice. So for ruth, there was a pain and commitment to make sure that she lived the life that her mother would have wanted to live. And i think that is a driving. Mary, do you agree with that . Ms. Hartnett of course. I think i would add on the advice for students of what they can do, there is the big picture level and the daily level. Because that is how she ended up achieving so much. So i would echo her words. Do not just use your career to further the economic position of your family. Having something that matters, that will make things better for those who follow. For her, that was gender equality. Or you, it might be something different. Everyone is not Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and that is ok. But on a daily level, reach out and try to make someones life a little better and be kind and thoughtful. And try to do a small thing each day. I think that is one of the things i have heard from many of you, her recognition that increment matters. We saw this in her philosophy of life and jurisprudence. Mary put it well that she is someone who was so transformable but she also recognized that Little Things matter. Wendy, she was so committed to doing things that open up doors for people and getting them the chance. When she spoke at the rose garden when she was nominated by president clinton and she talked about her mother, would you talk a little bit about the reference, which was so moving and powerful . Ms. Williams she said that she regretted that her mother, who was taken from her too soon, cannot see her joining the Supreme Court. And actually, clinton teared up in that moment and somebody who later went on fox news, they opened it for questions and this person said something like, well, president clinton, what took you so long and why did you keep changing your mind about who you would pick . And he ended the conference, he said, if you can say that after listening to her, and then he turned around, took her, and marched off. It was the end. Judge pillard could i read that quote . It is so moving. I have a last thank you. It is to my mother. The bravest, strongest person i have known who was taken from me much too soon. I pray i may be all that she would have been had she lived in an age where women could aspire and achieve and daughters are cherished as much as sons. Mr. Regan so powerful. Every time i hear it, i tear up. You and president clinton. [laughter] any final reflection of her legacy . I would say for students, even though Justice Ginsburg was a tireless worker and took her work very seriously and was very devoted to it, she had a lot of joy in her life. She took tremendous pleasure in music, especially opera, and she traveled the world. She married her soulmate and they had a lifelong love affair. What i would say is yes, your work is important and you should devote yourself to it, but take time to enjoy life. There is more to life than just working and just being a lawyer. It is also enjoying the arts and finding a soulmate and traveling the world. I think that is such a beautiful way to end it. She is someone who in every way lived her life in full. She had a passion for the law. Loved the law, her family, the arts. In every way, a model for us. I want to thank you all. Really inspiring comments. I would like, before we end, she meant so much to me and i would just like to say a few words, my own reflection on what she meant and what we can learn from her in this difficult time. I spent a lot of time since friday thinking about her legacy. She was an advocate, a Supreme Court justice, and a teacher. And when, most of the tributes focus on her career on the court and as an advocate, but before she was either of those, she was a teacher. She taught at rutgers and columbia. Even after she went on the bench, she remained a teacher. We in georgetown benefited from her commitment to teaching the next generation. She was so dedicated to it. I was so struck always by her commitment to the next generation and how generous she was at the time. We were looking back and i think she spoke at georgetown at least 25 times. She spoke four times in the months before the pandemic. It was amazing and reflected her commitment to the next generation. So in thinking about what she had to teach us, i thought back to a time 10 years ago, right after i arrived at georgetown. When i arrived, marty ginsburg, such a beloved member of this community, a great academic, just an amazing person. He had just passed away. And i went with justice to his office. And i walked in. I was struck. Martys office did not look like a typical faculty office. A Typical Office is very businesslike. What i was struck by in martys office was all of the pictures of the justice. Everywhere in that office were pictures of her at every stage of her career. I always thought of her as a jurist, a powerful advocate for change, but walking into his office with the justice, what struck me so powerfully was the special bond between them, and the great love they had for each other. When she appeared at the law school, when she talked to our students, what she shared with them was so powerfully that personal side. She spoke of her cases in the court, she talked about her work as an advocate, she did it brilliantly and no one could have done it better. But over the years, i have had the privilege of talking to many leaders of the bench and bar before the students and asking questions and being parts of conversations. None of the conversations were like the ones with her. They were uniquely personal and focused on helping guide our students for life after law school. It was amazing. The jesuit educational philosophy seeks to educate the whole person. That is the core principle. That is what she did. I have heard from so many of you the personal, when she talks to her students, she talked about losses she has suffered and the challenges she faced. She talked of her mothers death days before she ended high school. She talked about martys cancer when they were both in law school and they had a young child. She talked about the discrimination she faced, despite the fact that she was top of her class at harvard and columbia, that no law firm would hire her. She talked about that judge hand, who she idolized, were not considered for clerkship because she was a woman because he wanted to swear in his office and he would not feel comfortable swearing in front of the woman. She spoke of her battles with cancer. She talked about the bias against womens right that she encountered when she was advocating before the court. It was so personal. And she also talked of family, the importance of family to her. Her children, grandchildren, greatgrandchild. When she talked about marty, she glowed. She also talked about the importance of friendship. I will never forget after Justice Scalia died, she delivered a very moving tribute and talked about the friendship. She always said, we always disagree but our disagreements made me a better justice. She talked about the vmi case and how his dissent made her argument much better. She always said, it is ok to disagree, but it is not ok to be disagreeable. She talked about the importance of relationships. Fight for the things you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you. She talked about the importance of health. She talked about her famous exercise routine. We have more than 600 students watching this and Everybody Knows she could do 20 pushups. Perhaps most important, and as we talk about her legacy, she talked about the importance of fighting for what you believe in. She also talked about recognizing that there will be losses along the way, but she always talked about her faith in the future. She told one lawyer that the lawyer might not ever understand the depth of the impact of her work but when she got tired and frustrated, she should remember that what she was doing was progressing forward. Even in the darkest of times, even as she recognized the difficulties she confronted, Justice Ginsburg had unshakable faith in the future. I will never forget that when she was asked how she handled martys cancer when they were both in law school, she said, i never thought it would not be ok. Like many of you, i have cried a lot past few days. And it is so hard to think she is gone. It is hard for me to think i will never again have the chance to learn from her. I will miss being able to walk with her into the auditorium and see hundreds of law students, many of them wearing notorious rbg tshirts, their faces glowing, wildly applauding when they saw their hero. But at this time of loss, it is important to reflect on what she taught us. The importance of friendship and of cherishing those we love. The importance of fighting for what we believe in, the recognition that there will be struggles and setbacks, but the importance of having faith in the future and the belief that that faith will ultimately be justified. I never thought it wouldnt be ok, she said. Challenges are real. Losses are inevitable. But we should learn from Justice Ginsberg that faith in the future will sustain us and that that faith will be rewarded. Thank you, Justice Ginsburg. Good night. There will be several chances this week to honor the late Justice Ginsberg. Wednesday and thursday, her casket will be outside the Supreme Court for the public to pay their respects. Friday, she will become the first woman ever to lie in state at the u. S. Capitol. That occurs before a private ceremony is held next week at Arlington National cemetery where she will be laid to rest with her late husband. Senate republicans say they will move forward with naming a replacement for the Supreme Court. Mitch mcconnell spoke about his intentions from the senate floor shortly after paying tribute to the life and legacy of Justice Ginsburg. Mr. Mcconnell mr. President . The presiding officer the majority leader. Mr. Mcconnell our nation is mourning the end of an exceptional american life. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg meant so much to our country. First and foremost, she was a brilliant generational legal mind who climbed past one obstacle after another to submit the very is summit the very pinnacle of her profession. Justice ginsburg was a fixture on our nations highest court for more than a quarter of a century. She was not just a lawyer. No, not just a lawyer but a
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