Where democrats on the House Judiciary Committee look at the Trump Administrations response to the Coronavirus Spread in u. S. Prisons and jails. This will minimize any interruptions or noise. Im want do have my video feed on during the entire roundtable, but if you prefer to participate through just audio or if you would like to be visible only when it is your time to speak, you are welcome to turn off your camera at any time. I want to briefly explain how this will work. I will make a few opening comments, then chairman nadler will make a few comments. Our guests will follow with brief opening remarks, then the members will have opportunities to ask questions. This will allow for an informal giveandtake between members and our guests in contrast with the more rigid rules that apply during a formal hearing. I appreciate everyones time and i hope we can manage it efficiently. Im budget limit myself to just a couple of questions and i hope other members will also. I hope we can have a good conversation and wrap up by 5 30 eastern time. In advance fore your patience and i look forward to a good discussion. I will now make some opening comments. We have called this to bring let to the dangerous situation being experienced by prisoners and detainees in the bureau of and jailsd in prisons across the country as a result of the pandemic. Our task is urgent. There are tens of thousands of people in custody who are potentially in harms way because of the department of justice unwillingness to act to save lives. Today, the death toll in our prisons is at least 57 lives lost. I think that is undercount. The rate of infection is 6. 4 times greater than that of the u. S. Population. This is unacceptable. When we passed the cares act in march, when we gave them the opportunity and ample discussion to do the right thing and place on home confinement those most vulnerable to covid19, chairman nadler and i and members of the congress have written many letters urging aggressive action to ensure people are placed out of harms way. Rather than take heed and use their discretion, what we hear is that in many of the nations prisons, it has been business as usual. Toher than opening the door releases, there are barriers in the way of protecting the health and there are great inconsistencies between federal prisons. Since late last march, they have released less than 3000 prisoners into a home confinement. This is miniscule if you think there are over 150 prisoners in their custody. That when you think those that were already in the pipeline would have been released anyway. Thedoj has underutilized Authority Given to them. They have been derelict in their duty to prevent deaths in the facilities. Were also concerned about the staff and workers who must enter and work and facilities where covid19 is raging. We are concerned about the communities on the outside and the fact that they are bearing the brunt of this disease if you think that many if not most of the people who are incarcerated when they are released will come to the same communities that is experiencing a disproportionate death rate right now. They claim to have an action plan in place but it is hard to see how their actions are being considered. I am in los angeles and the federal prison here, the testing revealed that there were large numbers of prisoners infected with covid19. And another prison, the percentage of infected prisoners was 70 . Plann only hope i have a in place to release prisoners responsibly and protect the community. And protect the workers. Todays roundtable is an effort to call attention to this and other issues. I want to thank our guest today who are on the frontlines lines of the struggle to achieve justice for those in prison and a look forward to hearing what they have to say. I will now introduce todays guest. David patten has been the executive director and attorney in chief of the federal defenders of New York New York since july 2011. The defenders practicing at all levels in courts across the country have been on the front line of protecting the rights of individuals incarcerated during the crisis. Andrea james is the founder and director of the National Council on incarcerated women and formerly incarcerated women and works directly with persons impacted by the outbreak of covid19 in our jails and prisons. Angela cardwell is the daughter of a prisoner at a camp in texas. Living insychologist los angeles but she grew up in el paso. She will share what her father has experienced and what she has experienced during the crisis. We welcome our guests and we thank them for participating today. Ask our guests to share their perspectives with us. Will begin with you and we hope you will summarize and five minutes so we can have time for questions. Thank you so much for convening todays roundtable. Experts have been sounding the alarm about the humanitarian disaster in jails and prisons. Incarcerated people live, eat and breathe together by the dozens and unrestricted and unsanitary spaces. Is the opposite of social distancing. As of today, the rate of infection in federal facilities is six times the regular rate. At least 59 people have died in the custody of the dlp. In ohio, nine people have died. In north carolina, eight people. Louisiana, seven have died. There are many others. Those numbers do not include the many who as we sit here today who are hospitalized and on ventilators. The only responsible way to deal with this crisis is to identify Vulnerable People, people who pose a low risk of any danger to the community, and get them out. Andan be done responsibly consistent with Public Health protocol. Infectione rates of and mounting death toll, the doj and bureau of prisons are putting up roadblocks and a return. And would like the public to think that they are doing something. They issue memos and press like paulhen people manafort or michael are released. But out of the public spotlight where the best majority of people, they are doing nothing. And fact, they are doing worse than nothing and opposing release when Vulnerable People seek bail or compassionate release. Every day, prosecutors are going into courts around the country claiming that the dop has a meeting under control. That the positive test results are low. They of course never mentioned that the dop is only testing a tiny fraction of the people incarcerated. Federal prosecutors tell policy and procedure while ignoring the facts on the ground and the Court Ordered medical inspections which have found the jails and prisons engaged in a systemic failure. In courthouses around the country, as my colleagues and i attempted to get people out, we see the cruelty firsthand. We are not the only ones. Federal judges have referred to the doj and dop policies as an alarming,llogical, unfathomable, and shocking. I could go on. Federal judges are using those descriptors because more than two months into the crisis, the doj and dop still do not have any sense of urgency and transparency or a coherent system for releasing Vulnerable People. 2 dop has moved less than of the prison population and to home confinement. 111 ebsite touts a increase in home confinement. Paltryt shows is how their use of home confinement was prior to the crisis. Taking the battle to the appeals courts selectively courts that are available favorable to them. Members of the committee, i want to thank you for your efforts in passing the heroes act. I know you feel the same way we feel. That this crisis has become about more than dry legal concepts. It is about basic humid decency. Dop should have taken action long before march 28 when 49yearold Patrick Jones became the first to die. Death and others were enough, the death of a 30yearold, eight months tognant when she gave birth her child while on a ventilator before she died on april 28 should have been an immediate call to action. For doj and dop, it was not. Because they have proven they are unwilling to do the right thing, it is essential that Congress Give judges broader tools to responsibly release Vulnerable People quickly, regardless of dop or doj opposition. The heroes act does that. I think this body for recognizing the need to act and i hope your colleagues in the senate will follow suit. Thank you. Ms. James . We can hear you. Thank you very much for inviting us again to participate. We are the National Council Membership Organization of women in prison or formerly formally incarcerated. I want to make the point that we are on the front line and with women contact who are still there. Thank you again for allowing us to address this forum. For months, we have been juggling numerous calls per day from Family Members who do not understand why the dop will not let their elderly or ill Family Members come home. We have been inundated with countless stories from the women in federal prison that there scores have gone from low to high for no reason making them ineligible for release under the attorney generals directive. We have received countless emails saying that women are being quarantined in spaces that are not designed to house people such as visiting rooms and a kitchen. I am tired of reading statistics the one from danbury prison about the 159 reviewed for home confinement, only 21 have been given permission to go home. Im tired of the work we have to do to determine whether or not they have actually been released. Hasrdless of what congress legislated and the attorney general has directed, the dop staff have decided to make it nearly impossible for elderly and desperately ill people to get compassionate release and go home. Stappstance, danbury, started out by refusing to consider people for release if the pattern score was low, rather than minimal when s april general barr directive clarified the people who score was low were eligible, staff unilaterally increased scores without knowledge or justification to prevent them from qualifying. Staff that cause well told a group of women that they would be released to home confinement, but they needed to leave the Drug Recovery program and enter quarantine before release. Subject a completion full year off of a sentence. Then, the staff reported a change in doj policy that only people who had completed 50 of their sentence can be released to home confinement. The women who were no longer qualified were told they had to reapply and start the program over. Daily reports from the women of confusing and consistently change in policy. One woman incarcerated described the situation, she said i have kept a daily journal, the things are changing daily, the criteria changes hourly. I have a printout of requirements that were posted at 8 00 a. M. And they change by 11 30 a. M. The 8 00 a. M. Posting said 50 of time must be done, we are now confused as to what is required. Formerly incarcerated members at the National Council who is now an advocate, in held us with great concerns for women in general. Most importante programs for women who are reentering. She updated us today that there are people who are participating in the program which is now paused doodoo covid19 that will as a result end up serving. Ore time than they would have their incarceration would be extended by the number of months the program was paused. One facility violated the cares act by not allowing women to make free or video calls. The staff explained they could not figure out how to make these calls free and therefore they were not going to comply with the directive from the attorney general making the policy so that people could keep in touch with their families during lockdowns necessitated by the coronavirus. One case manager has denied the atease request from those high risk of covid19 complications who meet the attorney generals criteria and another case manager there would on the make one copy of a compassionate release request. Toll ofrials these policies are enormous. Is only 44, lisa who years old has stage four Breast Cancer and has been given 12 months to live. She cannot dress or wash yourself and is confined to a wheelchair when she has enough energy to get up at all. Advocacy, the warden agreed to home confinement, but the Regional Office would not approve release, so she could go home to die with her family. The reason given to a woman who is bedridden who can barely speak because of eight metastasized lump in her throat was that she might start trafficking oxycontin during her last month on this earth. This is not an oversight or a question of a release request falling to the crux. She has many advocates, including her congressman representative who has made inquiries into her case. The dop is actively refusing to release a dying woman. We received an update today that she is now struggling not to strangle in her saliva. There are three ways a person can get early release. One way is a transfer to home confinement under the elderly prisoner Pilot Program for those who meet the criteria. Another is release under the attorney generals directive. Then, compassionate release by court order. The first step act, a person may petition the Sentencing Court directly for release based on extraordinary and compelling circumstances after exhausting his or her administrative remedies. The statute is awkwardly written, but appears to mandate that a person petition the warden and if no answer is received after 30 days, the person can file a motion for release. If the warden denies the request within 30 days, the person has to go through the administrative appeals process which can take months. Ple who are born with vulnerable to covid19 cannot wait 30 days especially if the wer means no more waiting means more waiting. If the warden agrees, the release still has to be approved by other parts of the dop. If the warden says no, and a ministry of appeal is required. If the warden says nothing, the person must draft a motion and wait for the court to act. And 2018, 81 people died while they had compassionate release request pending and that was before covid19 struck. One crucial step in saving incarcerated people who are vulnerable to covid19 would be to remove the exhaustion requirement from the first step act. Introduced anave emergency at to streamline the compassionate release project. The standard for granting compassionate release, israordinary and compelling, high. The exhaustion requirement makes compassionate release essentially unobtainable. Congress wanted our people to releaseiable path to during this pandemic. As we continue at the National Council to be on the front lines in the fight to protect the human beings who are incarcerated during this pandemic, we will continue to be at the receiving end 40 phone calls from the families and documenting the desperate pleas from the women themselves and we will continue to do all we can to provide them with the support i need notwithstanding our overstretched staffing capacity and budget but we need help. Congress can help to fix this when we believe congress has a moral responsibility to do so. Thank you again for this opportunity. Caldwell . Thank you. This past march when covid19 started hitting the United States, people started asking when they would be going to school, whether their offices would be shut down, whether they would lose their jobs. My family started asking if we would lose our father. My dads name is thomas. He is incarcerated at a prison camp just outside of el paso, texas. It is a minimal security facility with mostly elderly, nonviolent firsttime offenders. There isnt even a fence around the campus. The inmates are all extremely low rates for recidivism. Otherwise they would not have qualified. These men are not hardened criminals. They pose no danger to the public. Theirre trying to pay debts to society quietly and honorably. My dad is 67 years old and has been diagnosed with advanced coronary artery disease. He suffers from high Blood Pressure and hypertension. Cdc, thisto the places him in the highest risk group for dying from covid. In late march, he suffered his fourth heart attack and was denied appropriate medical care. When he asked the staff to protect him from covid early on, they laughed at him and sent him back to his cell. My father was identified almost two months ago as high risk for contracting the virus. Two months ago, this government aid knowledged my father has a target on his back. Three days after the attorney to the dop,ctive the warden told these men that none of them would be getting out of his prison and if they died, it would be their own fault for committing a crime in the first place. My father applied for a transfer to home confinement immediately after the attorney generals directive on march 29. Two weeks later, he sent his transfer papers. My mother was contracted by contacted and her home was determined suitable. Later, on april 20, my fathers transfer was denied. There was a new requirement that he had to have served 50 of his sentence. Because of that threshold that has nothing to do with covid19 has of this betrayal, my fathers hopes for protection from his government were shattered. My family was devastated. My mother stop sleeping. On april 29, we requested a compassionate release and on april 30, we restarted the request for home confinement. Efforts initially appeared to be successful. Two days later, my father signed his transfer papers again. A few days later, my mother passed another Home Inspection and we could breathe again. Father was coming home where we can protect him from the virus. Ago,past monday, four days my father received notice that his compassionate release was denied because the prison was using other means to protect his safety. Tuesday, we got word that his transfer to home confinement had been denied again. That is three denials. Point, my father who has a perfect conduct record and is a model prisoner has been placed in solitary confinement twice in the last two months. Both times, he was not charged with a violation. His record remains spotless. Both times happened to be on the same day that i arranged interviews between him and the washington post. Both times, the warden placed a 67yearold man with a serious heart condition and a roach infested cell to block him from speaking to the press. My family got to go to bed that night with visions of my father lying on a prison floor clutching at his chest. My father has been begging for safety for two months. We have been denied three times. Others have been released. What are the rules . If you are famous you get released . If youre from a prison that has already killed many of its inmates you get released . If this discussion results of my fathers release, what does that mean . That your daughter has to appear in front of congress for your father to be treated humanely . Inmates whohe other are victims of unconscionable abuses his families cannot speak for them . I am here because of my privilege. Im here because im white, educated, but most importantly because i speak english. El paso is a border town. Are of the inmates there from American Families who dont look like families and the rest of the country. In el paso, many American Families only speak spanish. Where i grew up, you better be bilingual or you can order dinner. What do these families do . How do they protect their families . The answer is that it is not their job. I shouldnt be here. It is not the job of the family to protect the incarcerated. That is the job of the dop. These men and women were given prison sentences. Thats the deal. The dop is not entitled to subject them to further punishment and they are not entitled to subject them to death. I am here to expose the cruelty and see of the dop. The dop claims they are following the guidance of the cdc and acting expeditiously to protect the incarcerated from the virus. They have not helped my dad in two months. 10 guards at his prison are telling inmates that they tested positive for the virus at a near run hospital. 20 inmates with covid symptoms have been hidden in solitary confinement and they can continue to refuse testing. The dop is lying to you. They have no interest in saving lives. They are killing our Family Members and torturing them. Please hold them accountable. Thank you so much. I appreciate you sharing your and the other guests that have spoken, thank you. Were not going to open the floor for questions. As i mentioned, i ask that all members limit themselves to one or two questions. I have a little bell that i will ring if you go on beyond five minutes. With respect to everyone, we want every member to have a chance to ask questions. Were going to start with our chairman who i know has a statement. Thank you very much do have a statement before the questions. It is critical that members of this committee gathered today meet virtually instant of in person discuss covid19 in our jails. Toy have worked diligently bring attention to this issue, to engage in oversight of the administrations terrible response and action. The response of the administration has been an adequate and not releasing nonviolent prisoners as congress has given them the authority to. Not having proper social distancing and prisons, not providing personal protective equipment to staff. All of this threatens the lives of the prisoners, the lives of the staff, threatens the people in the community because the prisons can become vectors for the pandemic. The result is a high rate of death and infection in and around the prisons. If thell make it worse bureau of prisons and doj continues on this terrible course. The committee is engaged in oversight concerning this issue at the federal, state, and local levels. I have taken a particular interest in the situation at eight metropolitan Detention Center in brooklyn and a Correction Center in manhattan. Rates at rikers island. I want to recognize the black issue in focusing on this and Holding Virtual town halls to discuss it one of which included the participation of nancy pelosi. Who also worked with a representative on the subcommittee to write repeatedly to the Justice Department on several occasions urging aggressive action with respect to prisoners held in the bureau of prisons and detainees held by the marshals service. The attorney general has been slow to act. We have heard from some of our witnesses and may have been quite not taking necessary action to an appropriate degree and the confinement authority granted to the doj in march. Givenuthority has confusing policy changes and caused heartache to prisoners. Additional authority in the heroes act to direct the federal prisons. To direct the release of vulnerable prisoners who not pose the risk of harming others. In addition to other changes in federal law such as the expansion of elderly during this time. Includes thet also correctional facility Emergency Response act to help address this crisis and the and local prisons and jails. Utilize grantd funding, incentivize the release of vulnerable prisoners without a risk of harming others. Treatment ofide covid19 in hospitals and jails. We will continue to be vigilant and providing oversight of what is going on in prisons and jails across the United States. As we have heard today, the course of action by the bureau has been not only inadequate but contrary to the will of congress, contrary to andlaws we have passed endangering the lives of inmates , staff, and people who live in the vicinity of prisons. Guests. D we heard from i have a couple of questions. Patton, last year you testify before a crime subcommittee and detailed endured atprisoners eight Detention Center in brooklyn in 2019 because of the lack of heating. The dophe hearing, director at the time the shortest that the dop had implemented systems to ensure they were better prepared to handle emergencies. I love has happened since then. We are now in the middle of a pandemic or it. Has anything changed since that testimony . How have they been handling the current emergency . Thank you, mr. Chairman. Condition at, the the livinges conditions right now for our clients are awful trade they are enormous lengths of time. Their conditions are unsanitary. They live in fear that they are going to contract a deadly disease and we heard such compelling testimony from ms. Caldwell about her father, i wish that was the exception. It is the rule. People are told one thing, they get their hopes up, they hear public pronouncement from the dop and doj and they think help is on the way, they think people are going to do the right thing, then they are told that they only theor a release next day to have the bop change its mind when you are locked down for sometimes days at a time. The conditions at the facilities are terrible. There invested. People are crowded into housing units. They sleep in bunks a few feet apart. 5070 people in a housing unit sharing one or two working toilets or six or showers. It is built for contagion. ,eople live in constant fear not to mention being shut off from the rest of the world. There is no social or legal visitation. In ways tory limited communicate with the outside world whether it is by phone or emails. It is an awful place to be. Thank you. I have one question for ms. Caldwell. Express my concern and sympathy for the situation of your father. Bop reports the numbers of prisoners infected with covid19 on its website. Has your father shared with you any of the views of those inside as to whether those numbers are accurate . Whether the way they have detected the situation is accurate . Do their reports reflect what your father knows is going on there . We have heard reports from my that 10 of the Correctional Officers have tested positive for covid but not at the prison. The tested at a nearby hospital. Prisoners, none of the prisoners report having been tested that they are reporting high numbers of covid symptoms. Thank you, i yield back. Out of deference to my colleagues, i will hold my comments until the end. Good afternoon, everyone. Chair for thisr roundtable which i believe is extremely important. Let me put some another numbers in the record that need updating. Of thes in comparison devastation that our inmates are 620ng create in late april, federal inmates and 357 bop staff confirmed positive reports that results for covid19 nationwide. Over 50 plus have died. As a comparison in the state of ands, 44,000 were tested 2000 were found to be positive. In our juvenile facilities, we have found that there has been very limited testing. Incarcerated youth are nonviolent but a number of them have been found to be covid19 positive. I want to raise the question of how these facilities are featured dishes they are devastating for individuals who are human beings. And is the real question why i was motivated to push for the testing of the Harris County jail where 770 or tested and 300 were positive. I want to raise the question and say to ms. Caldwell, hal heinous and action that has occurred to your family and your father. I want to try to understand the regional construct which means that an inmate cannot depend upon decisions being made by the warden that interferes and denies an inmate their human rights as evidenced by the cares act. Would you comment on that . I would appreciate my second question is for ms. James and mr. Patton to talk about the undermining of the patent score. Which seems to the pattern score which from my perspective needs to be addressed legislatively along with the issue of exhaustion of remedy. Ms. Caldwell . I apologize, can you please be the question . I understand it that your father was approved by the sorry for these terrible conditions that you are living in or he was living it. Then it was ultimately overruled by the Regional Office. Can you explain what that does to families when you cannot reply rely upon consistent decisionmaking that impacts families so devastatingly . Usthe impact that it has on i wish there was a stronger word than devastating. We cant sleep. We are in a constant state of vigilance. We hear good news from the wharton and we get our hopes up then we get a denial and we get good news then a denial. It is crushing us. It is crushing every Family Member that goes through this. We thought he was coming home so we can protect him. Came. He third denial we are at a loss. We dont know who to trust. We dont know if we can trust our own government or anyone. Thank you. On the issue of the pattern changing continuously and eight negative impact . I am happy to address that. I know the chairman know this because they have written to the director about it. For those who dont know pattern is a Risk Assessment scoring system. It is brandnew and it seems like it is in and evolving development, although there is not much transparency behind it. There is a lot we dont know. What we do know consistent with our fears when it was developed is that it has incredibly racially disparate impact. The scoring system purports to place people in various risk categories and they are now using that as part of their home confinement transferring criteria. It is not what the tool was meant or designed to do. It is not even clear that pattern is useful or affective for the purpose for which it was actually designed. Now, they are using it for this entirely different purpose. Saying that only people who score at a minimum level will be considered a priority for home detention. We know that similarly situated blackmails will only fall into those categories 7 of the time as compared to 30 of white men. It is problematic in many ways. Hearingold an entire just on the use of pattern for any number of reasons, much less using it during a crisis like this. It is entirely inappropriate. Thank you. Afternoon. I want to again join my colleagues and thinking our guest. Thanking our guest. What we have heard today is devastating. We have been working on this issue for a while now and we believe we will continue to do so. Ms. Caldwell, every story that i have heard has been unbelievable but you said the warden had approved your fathers release being assigned at home, yet a Regional Group disapproved. See did the Regional Office that the warden who is there every day did not see or failed to see . That is my understanding it was not the Regional Office the denied his safe transfer. It was the central office. It was the d. C. Office. We just learned the reason this morning and it was that he had not served 50 of his sentence. What did they say about the extenuating circumstances of your fathers health . Nothing. There was no mention of that. Ok. Ms. James . Mr. Patton. Reapplyinglked about , confusing, inconsistent changing policies which is very disturbing. I understand there is a scoring system. Ms. James, if the criteria changes it seems like every other day or every week, is there a new scoring system or are they just making the rules of depending on who is at work that day . That that isppear exactly what is happening. Basediteria is changing on the reports that we are receiving directly from the women inside on a consistent, regular and consistent basis and sometimes a few times on the same day. They are confused about the criteria, how are when they can apply for release and it is just completed arbitrary based on what were hearing from women who are reporting out. Thank you so much. For the sake of my colleagues, i will yield back. I want to give such a heartfelt thanks to the panelists that are here with us and especially to you ms. Caldwell. My heart goes out to you and i am sickened by what we are hearing today. 1, william barr participated in a q a on twitter. In response to questions from our colleagues, attorney general barr said the department of justice made sure releases to home confinement would be using authority under the first step act. Additional releases to home theyent after received tools and the care act. General barr said just attorney general barr said we have been using that aggressively. We havent just short of 5000 in home confinement and we have another 1000 in the pipeline and we are processing them quickly. We do not put out people who are violent offenders for sexual offenders. We know that attorney general barr has authorized some home confinement, but there are many more individuals including those in high risk groups that are still in our federal prisons. That includes incarcerated individuals and also those who are working in the prisons that may come to the families and out into the community. Step staff have tested positive. Stayathome orders are lax. They are likely to be out in a communitys and more without even knowing they are infected and. In the cares act the congress with bipartisan support, we have actually authorized 100 million to address the health care concern for our prison population. Yourames, from conversations with incarcerated people, what have you learned about how that money is being spent for the protection of the inmates and the staff . I can speak to the concerns that we have about the consistency, particularly of people who are terminally ill have clearly compromised immune systems particularly at the prison where consistently women are not now since covid19 receiving medication, lifesaving medication such as chemotherapy treatments, things that are literally necessary on a daily basis for the health and wellbeing of this woman. Daily we arereport receiving a thing that these women are not getting the same orel of medical Attention Team of therapy or other treatments consistently on the schedules that they were accustomed to and were necessary. In addition to that, in an some spacingate that is literally impossible, federal prisons have taken women and lower custody such as federal prison camps and moved them into a higher security prisons. As a result of that, women who had medications that were allowed in the prison camp that are no longer allowed behind the more secure walls. Pumps and things that are necessary to facilitate breathing and so forth. These Health Conditions are by the poorbated handling that the bop is doing is trying to do handling covid19 when we could be creating the social distancing that is necessary by moving through these other three phases that we have outlined that could be happening right now are the bureau of prisons to free up space. Go ahead. What ppe orwell, cleaning supplies have been given to your father and the staff that he interacts with including medical staff and Corrections Officers . Not sure i have all the information. I can tell you what my dad has told us. I have been told they are wearing masks. They get masks once per week. They have painted a red line on their beds to notate where their heads should go. Thank you. I appreciate that. Hopefully, you will have a chance to explain that later. German jefferies . Chair forou, madam convening us and chairman nadler for your leadership. I want to bank all of the guests for participating in this forum as well. For the information that you have provided in such a comprehensive and compelling fashion. The conditions that have been described at this forum are unacceptable, unconscionable, and unamerican. Anyconstitution prohibits american from being subjected to cruel and unusual punishment. Sentence should be a death sentence. For far too many incarcerated individuals who have died as a result of being infected by covid19, that is already the case. That is shameful. Chair foru madam convening us and for your steadfast advocacy. Mr. Patton, the attorney general indicated that he was going to encourage the bureau of prisons to release medically vulnerable placed yet the bop has as far as the numbers i can tell less than 3000 people on home confinement since late march, despite congress and the cares act giving them ample authority to do so. Can you explain why the numbers have been so unacceptably low . Thank you, representative jefferies. I wish i could explain it. Quite honestly, i have been shocked by how callous the response has been and the lack of urgency. The numberste that you just put out, less than 3000 is in fact the more accurate number. A representative mentioned that attorney general barrs 20 about 5000 people being in home confinement, that is the number of people in home confinement, not the number of people they have moved into home confinement because of covid19. Eett was a very misleading tw on his part. I wish i could explain it. At the brooklyn facility, we had an instance of a vietnam veteran with all sorts of medical issues, or who was in on a lowlevel drug offense. We had to pound the table for weeks and weeks to try to get them to do something they continually denied. Eventually, we prevailed so that is one of these 3000 people. It is not as though the doj, those 3000 people are people that they willingly identified and got out. It was after weeks and weeks of advocacy. Then, they dumped him out of the building. He had a place to stay in philadelphia that they dumped him out at midnight. We said please tell us so we can get him a home and do it safely. There is a level of callousness and cruelty behind these policies and practices that is quite shocking. The inhumanity that seems to be on display are some folks within the bureau of prisons should shock the conscience of every american. To place the numbers into 175,000 there are about people currently incarcerated within the federal system. That is correct. The vast majority of those individuals are nonviolent drug offenders or nonviolent offenders correct . That is correct. Clearly, over 100,000 individuals fall into the andgory of being nonviolent perhaps not presenting a risk to society if they were then you have thousands of other individuals who are elderly and not a danger to society, and then you have thousands of individuals presumably suffering from preexisting conditions that present a higher degree of risk factor should they be. Fflicted with covid19 the bureau of prisons need to do a better job because what you have done so far is shameful and im thankful for the leadership of ted lieu calling for an Inspector Generals investigation into what appears ofbe a disparate policy treating fan treating friends of the Administration One way and every day americans a different way. So thank you, david, for your leadership. I also want to thank andrew james and Angela Caldwell for your advocacy and your compelling presentations today. Madam chair, yield back. Thank you very much, mr. Chairman. I would like to begin by thanking you and chairman nadler chairman jeffries for your leadership on this critical issue. Thank you for your extraordinary tok and for your courage share a very painful story about what you have experience as a family and thank you mr. Patton for being a defender of liberty and being with us today. Hearing the stories about the conditions in which we are finding ourselves is appalling. The notion, as chairman jeffries individuals in custody are facing the very real prospect of contracting a deadly virus is something no one on this community, no one in the country should find acceptable. I have a mother who has copd and she lives with my dad. She is 80 years old and i am terrified she would get this virus. I cannot imagine what families like angelas this is something we have a responsibility to shine a light on and that is what the purpose of this roundtable is. My question is i received a very disturbing email from someone in otisville. Just a horrible experience, just like ms. Caldwell, they were told a bunch of Different Things people were put into some sort of confinement where they were told they would have to stay a number of days, almost quarantining within the prison facility. That the family having no information about what was happening, who was making the decision, what standard is applying, and they recount what we all know about prisons. Enough soap, no hand sanitizer, no program to wipe down telephones or computers. Im just wondering, do you have any sense about enough soap, nod whether or not theres any compliance in a meaningful way with basic cdc sidelines in the facilities you are familiar with at the bureau of prisons . No, there is not. Because theret are numerous lawsuits around the whethercountry, including herew havingty in which judges ed medicalder inspection, the former chief medical officer of new york city s Correctional Health system inspected those facilities and andsed words like alarm systemic failure. And he ticked off, i believe it was more than 20 basic failings of the sort you are describing and others. So you dont have to take my word for it. Real medical experts who have been on the inside are shocked. , theye of that litigation describe the prison exhibiting indifference. Morenal question is what can congress do in addition to oversight . Can we contemplate trying to develop a standard that says if you have less than xm amount of time left on your sentence, you must be released if you are determined to have a preexisting condition . Is it to give the courts more discretion . To protect the lives of individuals who are in custody or under sentence and to bring some peace of mind to their Family Members and loved ones that we as a government will take our responsibility to keep them safe seriously. I think the provisions in the heroes act strike exactly the balance you are talking about. That do in fact recognize the this ofbop are doing their own accord and does requires police to the release of certain Vulnerable People, acknowledging there will be Public Safety considerations and maybe they wont be released. Butre realistic about this, i think the provisions in the heroes act are a terrific first step. Thank you so much. With that, madam chair, i yield back. Your leadership on this issue. I want to thank chairman nadler for his leadership of the full committee and thank you to the witnesses for the powerful testimony today. You mentioned in your opening remarks Terminal Island prison. Thats a facility in Southern California that has approximately a 70 infection rate of covid19 and at least eight inmates have died. There are numerous other prisons that have several similar high rates of inmates dying. That is one of the reasons we wrote a letter to prisons asking to release all inmates into home confinement and come up with a plan for other facilities and why congressman jeffries and i wrote a letter to the Inspector General asking him to investigate the bureau of risen and department of justices inadequate response to the covid19 outbreaks. My two questions to you have to do with the Legal Standard of cruel and unusual punishment. The first prong that has to be met is an objective standard where there is a risk of serious harm to inmates. If a prison has approximately 70 of inmates having been infected with a lifethreatening virus and eight inmates already died, would you say that could pose a substantial risk of serious harm to inmates . Given the environments we are talking about, it certainly does. I dont think theres any question. When you combine that level of infection with the living arrangement in the facilities, the constant close social contact and lack of appropriate sanitation, that standard is clearly met. If not, its hard to imagine. Word callous to describe the views of the department of justice and the bureau of prisons. The terminalto island facility with 70 of inmates being infected and eight of them having died, would you say the actions of department of justice or the federal bureau of prisons could be liberally indifferent to the risk posed to prisoners . Unfortunately, yes. I think we would all like to responsible officials at a place like the department of justice with justice in the name of it would act in a more responsible way. But the fact is they just are not. Thank you for your answers cruel andey establish unusual punishment. Its also one reason why a federal judge in ohio recently found that prisoners who made a cruel and unusual punishment claim had a high likelihood of succeeding on the merits and ordered the prison officials to essentially release inmates to home confinement. Thank you for your work and advocacy. I believe at the department of justice every day is engaged in cruel and unusual punishment, violating the constitution, and it is completely unacceptable. My last question ms. Caldwell, thank you for your powerful testimony. I want to confirm that you stated the federal bureau of home confinement because your father had not served more than 50 of his sentence. Is that correct . That is my understanding, yes. I know that Paul Manafort did not serve more than 50 of his sentence, yet he was released by attorney general bill barr and he happens to be a former Campaign Manager and friend of the president. That is disparate treatment. I hope the Inspector General looks at this case and your fathers case. With that, i yield back. Thank you. . Epresentative Madeleine Dean thisank you for convening important and troubling roundtable. I thank you to the experts, and ms. Caldwell, very much for your extra ordinary strength of story your champion nature for your father. I believe you will be successful prayt should not take i you will be successful and it shouldnt take coming to us to reveal the extraordinary inhumanity within the system that seems baked in and covered over. And it seems unbreakable. But it is breakable. I introduced and would like some reflection on whether you think this is a good idea. I introduced a companion piece of legislation to the cares act excuse me, to the grace act, that was introduced in the senate. I have introduced a companion in the house that would allow the breaking through of this system and would allow for the inmates to petition directly to federal courts and would place requirements on the bureau of prisons. Would you, and your anecdotal, very sad story, believe that kind of relief would be helpful to you and your family . 100 , absolutely, that would be helpful to my family. We have been spending the past two months trying to figure out a route to the sentencing judge. That would be helpful for every family some of the sentencing judges are not as kind. Miss james, would you have a comment on the grace act . Yes, congresswoman, absolutely. The streamlining of the compassionate process would be incredibly helpful. The standard for granting compassionate relief is very high. It is an extraordinary and compelling the exhaustion required makes compassion relief essentially unobtainable, so we need the grace act to streamline that process. I think it is aptly named. Sometimes you just have to apply grace. You have to rise above the inhumanity and socalled justice , as shakespeare said, offered grace. I hope we will be successful in getting that past. Mr. Patton, do you have an opinion on that . Im well aware of the grace act and your work and we are grateful to you for it. It would be a huge step forward if we could get it back. Patton,orried, mr. About folks in the Justice System coming or coming into this Justice System and access to public defenders. Are we finding folks are struggling to have representation as a result of this pandemic . It is an and normas an enormous it is challenge. Peoplee 170,000 plus incarcerated. They dont have an active attorney on their case. Their attorney may be long gone, may be retired, may no longer be in practice. I know that my colleagues and myself around the country are making enormous efforts to identify people who need assistance, but it is a huge undertaking. Mandatoryies against minimums and the National Association of defense lawyers our trip are chipping in with efforts to try to identify them, but it is a big challenge. I hear that my time has expired. At some point, i would love to connect with you regarding pennsylvania prison for women. We are actively engaged. Thank you so much chairwoman, chairman nadler, for having this conversation. We have been for weeks on our calls, the Democratic Caucus talking about how covid19 has really shown the inequities in our communities and where we have seen a huge rise in cases has been in prisons, in nursing homes, and communities of color. To first of all, i agree wholeheartedly with what my colleague, hakeem jeffries, said earlier. Every person deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. And we have the right and responsibility to do that. Angela. O commend your story really struck a chord and i am so grateful you are here with us today because people need to hear from Family Members. Your father is in a low security prison, first offender, 65 years old. He should be at home, home confinement. Thats not only the moral thing to do, but it is the right thing to do for the safety of our community. We have a serious pandemic right now in the United States and having safe policies is the right thing to do for the safety of our community. I want to bring attention to a state correctional system, it is here in my district. It is a state run womens prison, but they have felt the severe impact of covid19. Inmates, 35 of the facility has tested positive. Over 300 are in quarantine and over 27 20 Staff Members have tested positive. Even though they knew covid19 was a threat, they did not start plummeting any measures until they had 73 inmates who had tested positive. I want to start with my first question, with andrea, since you mentioned the womens resin. How have you seen what are the unique challenges the womens correctional institutions faced during the covid19 pandemic and what do you recommend we need to do to protect these women at these facilities . We are certainly very concerned about there being no special attention provided for elderly women with compromised immune systems and pregnant women. We have already seen and we have been morning still the and there areath countless women, lisa crow, right now, who we are fighting to get out, she is literally dying of stage iv cancer. She is missed assess sized, she has a lump in her throat, so shes choking on her own saliva, and we still cannot get her out. There are many reasons we dont Pay Attention to women in general on a prison boat. Most of it is attributive to sexual violence, untreated trauma, the illness of addiction, and these are things that will never, ever, because of the culture of incarceration, be effectively addressed by a prison environment. Particularly women who are struggling from sexual trauma. We need to change some of the things we are doing in terms of we are you what we are using incarceration for, and pay special attention to the reasons why the studies we have done at the National Council to demonstrate why women land on a prison boat and all the work we have done to create alternatives to that that keep women in their communities. I will end by saying 85 plus of incarcerated women are mothers, mothers of children under the age of 18. Their separation from their children has caused further harm. We have to do a better job in this country and figure out ways to really begin to stop incarcerating people for things that people should not be in prison for. Thank you i wholeheartedly agree. At the federal level, my colleagues and i have been pushing the Trump Administration to protect the people that have been incarcerated in federal prisons and rest representative val demings and myself sent a letter to attorney general william barr, demanding answers about the protocols in place and the resources that have been given to the federal facilities in florida. But we have not received any response. You answers about can imagine, yout getting any responses, they are even blocking responses to us, members of congress. A my district, we have federal correctional facility that houses over 1000 inmates. I have been receiving calls that inmates and Staff Members still do not have the proper ppe equipment, even when they are transferring some of these incarcerated individuals to a hospital, they are not given the proper ppe equipment. That is putting the safety of our communities at stake. I give this question to david, andrea, whoever wants to answer it, how do you think this is effecting the health and safety of our communities when we are not actually protecting those people in our federal prisons by providing net equipment, by providing necessary sanitation measures . I would ask if you are going to respond, you respond quickly because we are out of time. I will say very quickly when you have a hot that of infection, they are not walled off from society. Hundreds inens and and out of those facilities every single day. Whats going on in those facilities impacts the community at large. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Representative steve cohen. Videoed in . We can see you. Thank you for holding this hearing. I had a letter from a lady who is in my district shes from north city and it was about her husband. A long way from me. Hes 73 years old and had a transplant due to cardiomyopathy. He was 69 at that time and hes now 73. Hes had some serious medical conditions and vulnerable and he served over half his time yet he has not been released. Lexington, kentucky, i believe. Depending on whether you are a friend of President Trump or not i guess this to patent might be the right person to ask. How may people have Michael Cohens prison and Paul Manaforts prison been diagnosed with covid19 . I dont have those numbers in front of me, im afraid. I can pull them up and probably have them to you before we finish this hearing. I have read thoroughly about this that there were no covid19 at Paul Manaforts and i dont think reichel s was any different. Do you have any idea of the percentage of people who got out that had not met the criteria 50 time served . I dont, but it is not a large number. One thing i want us to be careful about i understand the point you are making, which is a very good one, that there seems to be disparate treatment going on here and i think that is surely the case, but i would be hesitant to say theres any facility without covid19. They are intentionally not testing people. The testing numbers are minuscule. Even at facilities where there are no positive tests, it very likely is rampant. There was a case i read about i think in california, a man who died in prison from getting covid19 and he was in there for multiple, and he did not have a drivers license. Nevertheless, he was in prison and the article i read said everybody in his cellblock had tested positive. They tested enough there to know most of the people in that facility had covid, he was in there for a dui, i just saw you no reason to sentence someone to death. That is what they are doing by leaving someone in there. Its cruel and unusual and a denial of due process. Negligence kind of but you cant do anything. This is the same bureau of prisons that could not guard jeffrey epstein, the most vulnerable inmate in the country and they let two guys go to sleep and havent really followed up on it and let him commit suicide, allegedly. They havent found out who let him commit suicide except the bureau. I thank you for your testimony. Im so sorry about your situation. This administration. This administration is heartless. They dont care about justice, fairness, or equity. Age who haveertain served a certain time should be released. People over a certain age or with certain medical conditions. With that, yield back my time and thank all the members. Thank you very much. I want to thank our guests today for participating in the roundtable. When we have the discussion about testing, whether there is testing or not, as david patton was describing, it is consistent with the administrations policies and magical thinking in the sense that you wont find covid if you dont test. So why would you test . If you test, you have to do something. And maybeke to know, we can close out this way, i will ask my questions and each of you can respond and give any closing comments you might have. We had a couple of phone conversations with the bop and i raised specifically this back and forth where inmates are told if you are going told that you are going to be released and the families are ready and like what angela described and each of you described examples of that, and basically they described their being misunderstandings. I have not heard of any of the facilities that actually are performing ok and i wonder if you have any examples of where the prisons and individual facility was performing in a earlyay, either testing release or if you could give any examples . Andrea, you mentioned several times the woman who has metastatic cancer. Almost as though you didnt describe any treatment or health care she had at all. They just decided she is on hospice and they are letting her die . I was wondering if you could respond to that. So i would ask if each of you would respond and we will use those as closing comments. Start with miss james. Certainly, congresswoman, thank you. Lisa is dying and lots of advocacy from lots of groups she has received. We are getting regular updates. We anticipated she would be released and she has been receiving chemotherapy. Shes also one of the people we that the level of receiving chemotherapy and the timing has been altered since covid 19, like many, many reports coming out of the medical prisons at carswell. So we are concerned. We are holding our breath, hoping for the best for her, that she will be allowed to be with her family during her last days. It is that critical. Also just wanted to point out in terms of the other part of your question, we have not heard of actual entire prisons that are doing a better job, but we do every now and then get letters like this one that came in today from the women in dublin who are talking about individual case managers who are being compassionate. Most of the reports, too many reports are coming in that case managers are being dismissive, they are ignoring them, not going out to provide them with care. But we do here every now and then that there are case managers, individuals who are working very hard to do everything they can to at least assist the women in filing their paperwork and hearing and learning about whatever they can to get relief. And q very much. Angela thank you very much. Angela . I did not prepare closing comments. Your thoughts . I have some. I am heartened to hear about some of the efforts many of you have put forward and i know there a larger discussion about how we need to do more. I dont like that. I think do more is vague. I think there should be specific actions. I want as a citizen, a normal, regular Family Member, i want you to open a massive investigation. I want you to press criminal charges against the people at the at the bop. This is intentional cruelty. I want there to be specific actions taken to hold them accountable. Thank you very much. You answer, before i wanted to know if you have any history of working with the staff or guards because this problem is impacting them, obviously. I wanted to know what the relationship was there. It is impacting them. You are exactly right. Been vocal and active. There have been osha complaints and we hear directly from Corrections Officers who have many of the same concerns we do. This is impacting everybody in the system. Ill close by saying this the covid19 issues are going to be with us for quite some time. Not disappearing as we move toward reopening society in whatever steps we go through. As awful as the response has late to saveot too. N awful lot of lives there are somewhere between 50000 and 60,000 people in the federal of Bureau Prison custody who either by age or medical condition are particularly vulnerable and it is not too late to save them. Can actually roll up our sleeves and get those things done, we can, in fact, save lives. Thank you so much. Let me conclude by saying we sit on the verge of a tragic milestone. Within a few days, we know we will hit 100,000 dead americans. And in administration that seems to believe this is just a part of business and we are supposed to congratulate him that its not more than that. Knowing that prisons, in my opinion, our petri dishes and people seem to have a very clear understanding of the dangers of a nursing home, but do not seem to have that same understanding where the conditions are far worse, and people do not have the capacity to have basic hygiene in many instances, that folks are going to die. And those people who work in the prison are going to leave the prison and go to their communities. So how we stop this cycle, i dont know. I want to thank our guests very much. We have done this several times now. I appreciate you cooperating every time, but i think it is so important people hear the stories because in many instances, folks that are incarcerated, unless you come from an impacted community, it is an impacted pop it is invisible population. It is absolutely unacceptable and cruel. Thank you very much. This concludes our roundtable. I want to thank the members come our committee chair, and other leaders. Thank you very much. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] watch cspans daily unfiltered coverage to the governments response to the coronavirus pandemic with ravings from the white house and congress and governors across the country. Join our live call in program, washington journal. If you missed any of our live coverage, watch ondemand at cspan. Org coronavirus. At my direction, the centers for Disease Control and prevention is issuing guidance for communities of faith. I want to thank dr. Redfield and the cdc for their work on this matter and all the other work they have been doing over the past what seems like a long time. Today, i am identifying houses of worship, churches, synagogues , and mosques as essential places that provide essential services. Deemedvernors have Liquor Stores and abortion clinics as essential, but have left out churches and other houses of worship. Its not right. Im correcting this injustice and calling houses of worship essential. I call upon governors to allow our churches and places of worship to open right now. If there is any question, theyre going to have to call me, but they are not going to be successful in that call. These are places that hold our society together and keep our people united. The people are demanding to go to church and synagogue, to go to their mosque. Many millions of americans embrace worship as an essential part of life. Rabbis,sters, pastors, imams, and other faith leaders will make sure there congregations are safe as they gather and pray. I know them well. They love their congregations. They love their people. They dont want anything bad to happen to them or to anyone else. The governors need to do the right thing and allow these very important, essential places of faith to open right now. For this weekend. If they dont do it, i will override the governors. In america, we need more prayer, not less. Thank you very much you. Just some of the president s remarks earlier today at the white house during a briefing on the coronavirus response. You can watch the entire event tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern, here on cspan. Monday, memorial day, at 9 00 a. M. Eastern on cspan, live coverage from Arlington National cemetery of the laying of the reef at the tomb of the unknown via by Vice President mike pence. At noon eastern, President Trump in the first lady will participate in a memorial day salary Memorial Day Ceremony at fort mchenry. Watch live monday on cspan and cspan. Org or listen on the free cspan radio app. Congress has set aside legislative work over the memorial day holiday. The houses expected to return wednesday and thursday of next week, when they will allow proxy voting on bills for the very first time. The house plans to vote on extending the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act through 2023 with some revisions to the program aimed at helping Law Enforcement track spies and terrorists. Members make also consider another Coronavirus Relief package. The senate is meeting every few days and pro forma sessions during their holiday recess. Senators return for legislative work on monday, june 1 and will resume votes on judicial nominations as well as the Inspector General for pandemic recovery. Watch live coverage for the house on cspan and for the senate on cspan2. Host joining us from south carolina, bakari sellers, a familiar face to those who watch book,nd author of this my vanishing country a memoir. My vanishingt country, why is that . Guest thank you for having me. Thank you to everyone who woke up to be with us. Rural america that used to be the epicenter of upward
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