Relief bill. He talks about it with Stephanie Murray. The Edward Kennedy institute for the United States Senate Posted this virtual event. Our inso delighted for our girl getting to the point by zoom that we have an absolutely phenomenal first guest and it is chairman richard neal, chairman of the house ways and Means Committee. Chairman neil is not only a great friend to this institute, he was a wonderful friend to senator kennedy, so we are thrilled to have him. He is not only involved in the Covid Response but through his house ways and Means Committee everything that touches an impact, families, and the compassionate response to the Covid Response, but to working families in the commonwealth and around this country. He has been working diligently on the cares act that was recently passed. Aboutgoing to talk to us that today and we cant wait to hear about it. We are thrilled also to have Stephanie Murray here with us today. We all open our inbox and read lay book. Of politico thank you for being here. I could go on and on about but i will kick it over to hear from him and stephanie and thank you all for joining us today via zoom. Thank you so much to the Kennedy Institute and especially to congressman neal for being so generous with your time. My name is Stephanie Murray and it is really just my pleasure to be here, especially to kick off this new version of the institutes forum as we get used to our lives online. You inpy to be here with this new way. Thats enough for me. I will open it up to congressman neal if you would like to offer opening remarks and get us started. Rep. Neal thanks, stephanie. I want to say a special word of thanks to vicki kennedy. You all know my official regard for teddy kennedy. I have modeled part of my legislative career on his argument we were to be advocates for the people of massachusetts. And just as importantly for the people of the United States. In addition, i think we were both of the same opinion as related to sometimes complicated legislation. That was that we were not meant to entertain the american people. We were meant to inform them. That is part of the legislative mission. I think the two of us found with great consistency. Vicki mentioned this was an extra ordinary legislative life. I believe history has an instance where that institute reminds us all the time of the significance of substantial legislative achievement and how important that is. I also want to offer my condolences at this time to the Kennedy Family on the passing of Maeve Kennedy townsend. It was a tragedy the family is witnessing. We all wish to offer our best at this difficult time. Congressman neal, to get us started, i would like to take your temperature. You started as chairman of the ways and Means Committee. It has been a whirlwind couple of years. We had a historic government shutdown, an impeachment trial, and now a global pandemic. Probably the most disruptive thing any of us will experience in our lives. How are you feeling right now and how are you seeing your role as the chairman of such an Important Committee in congress . Rep. Neal im a great believer in the institutions of American Public life. I understand fully the legislative responsibility we have. The ways and Means Committee wrote much of the cares act in careful consultation with Speaker Pelosi. We called you recall the ways and Means Committee has with the responsibly for tax, trade, tariffs, medicare, Social Security and management of the public debt. Our responsibilities are broad. Its an esteemed position one gets to hold in the house of representatives. I think the cares act reflects not only my personal interest, but also a long legislative history as to how we should respond to this pandemic. I worked very closely with Speaker Pelosi and secretary mnuchin. We were at its late into the night and back and forth on the phone with the secretary. We had bold authorship on phase two and phase three. I will say to those who have dialed in there is likely be phase four and probably phase five as well. Phase three has been described as stimulus. More accurately the description should have gone along the lines of really stability and relief. There are parts of that complicated response we had but i did not do this in a flybynight effort. I went back to individuals who have long, successful legislative careers and influence and understanding the parameters of the issue of this magnitude. I immediately sought out advice from bob ruben, who had been secretary of the treasury during bill clintons years. Bob managed the mexican debt crisis. Janet yellen, former chairwoman of the Federal Reserve board, hank paulson who guided the Bush Administration after the financial collapse of 2008. Steve ratner, who handled the auto bailout for president obama. I was in touch with jay powell the Federal Reserve board. And jack lew has been unyielding in loyalty to me over the years. A subsequent gettogether lasted for more than two hours with Speaker Pelosi. We did it again a week ago. I have been in touch with secretary azar, secretary mnuchin regularly. We decided to try to divide Public Policy here understanding until the health issue is resolved, you are not going to get to the economic contagion its created. Help foremost and then we moved to the economic consequence of what the Health Scenario has put before us, but i think relying upon people who in this instance stand behind the president everyday at the briefings, their careers. These are individuals who have great credibility in this conversation and i think relying upon those who have experience and career responsibilities is a really important step. Stephanie everything you just said peaks my interest but could you talk about the role of the federal government in this whole crisis and how you think the federal government is doing . We see this push and pull almost every day with President Trump talking about the economic crisis. Being hopeful to get the economy and country back up and running like normal. The past deadline for that was easter. That is passed, as we all know, and things are still not back to normal. Do you think the federal government is doing a good job right now handling this . Rep. Neal i think the limitation was slow. I think they were confusing messages from the administration. I would go back to the New York Times story that appeared in the last between four hours. It is well sourced and welldocumented. I think there was another very important consideration here. It is called the National Principal. That is when the outbreak occurred first in Washington State, we did not say in america this is a Washington State problem. We said this is an american problem. Our response has to be based upon an american belief in the National Principal. We were able to rush aid to the state of washington. I think governor inslee gets credit for what he was able to do by taking it seriously immediately. As you can see, the situation seems to have plateaued in the state of washington. Seems to have plateaued in the state of california. I think Governor Cuomo has done a pretty good job in the state of new york on this. I also think governor dewine and who was in the house of representatives and in the united state senate, the governor of ohio. I think he has responded appropriately as well. Much of the responsibility here in terms of resources has to come from the federal government. Were the only ones with the capacity to respond to this crisis, but administration frequently will fall into the hands of the governors. I think the three and many others have all been able to meet the moment. Stephanie its interesting that you mentioned the governors. What more can the federal government do . It seems like states are handling this in a patchwork way. There are different advisories, some governors are more vocal than others in obtaining ppe. A coalition of governors has banded together to ask for 500 billion in the next stimulus package. What can you as the chairman do as the chairman of ways and means do in the next phase of the cares act to remedy all these issues the states are facing . Rep. Neal we are in phase 3. 5 right now. We had decided we would go from phase three to phase four. As you know, with the paycheck protection act and the Unemployment Insurance issue, the hospital money, the first hospital dollars began to flow last thursday evening. 100 billion. The first 30 billion has been trounced. There will be two subsequent investments in hospitals. Massachusetts, the gem of the Hospital System in the world, understanding the role nih, our hospitals and medicare play every day and not just in the massachusetts dimension, but nationally, internationally as well, understanding the role of the 100 billion is important. I also think there will have to be another round of investment in our hospitals. Another 100 billion. The governors have asked for more state and local assistance. Governors and mayors. I agree with that. That is the bit of the dustup you are witnessing now. These are reasonable considerations. I understand that. At the same time, i also think reasonable people can agree when you have 17 Million People who filed for Unemployment Compensation just last week, the system will be exhausted very quickly. The money we set aside, the first 250 billion, will be exhausted fairly quickly as well. We will have to go back to Unemployment Insurance as well. I think the problem with the Small Business administration is that about 151 billion has gone and the 350 billion has gone out the door. There have been about 3800 institutions that participated with sba. I will tell you whether it is the retention tax credit or the workshare initiative, these are, i think, suitable opportunities to make sure people keep working. We need to adhere to that. That was part of the plan. Conversations with janet yellen in particular. She said to me in the course of my conversations with her and the others i described earlier, she said, lets put the ceiling at 75,000 for single filers. 150,000 for joint filers. Those first payments went out over the weekend. Those dollars will go into the hands of people who need them the most right away. Understanding this is daytoday sustenance for them, but also they are more likely to spend it. We use the irs because there was an immediate system of channeling that money because of taxpayer id numbers. Social security administration. There is a system of Social Security administration. Getting that money out would be easier. The Community Development block grant money for towns across the country and state government. There was a pipeline to get money out. I think the best way to describe it was speed and balanced. Stephanie even as checks are hit Bank Accounts from this phase we are talking about what is coming next. For viewers watching, what should we be looking out for in the next iteration of the stimulus package or the one after that . Rep. Neal i think we are looking at rebuilding a safety net once again. There will be an additional we just help for those described, 1200 and 2400 for joint filers. I also think there will have to be more money for the unappointed insurance system. Not to miss the point that the people in the front lines it is remarkable. I live across the street from Baystate Medical center in springfield. It is the largest employer in western massachusetts. Along with other community hospitals, they are on the front lines. Mercy hospital, the sisters of providence, they couldnt be but three blocks from where i live as well. Yesterday as i was hearing the banners waving in the horns honking, this spontaneous outpouring of goodwill for what is going on inside those hospitals is astounding. But they need more protective equipment. They need more ventilators. They are going to need more assistance. We published this morning dollar allocations for hospitals in central and western massachusetts. They will need more money. They are on the front lines. These doctors, nurses and Health Care Professionals are providing heroic work. Assisting them is part of our obligation in congress. Stephanie to get the rest of this aid done in congress, how are you looking at doing that when even being together in a room for members of Congress Might be a safety hazard . We also the photos and videos of what is happening. People sitting where they dont usually set. Are you looking at result voting or voting in shifts to keep social distance . What is the plan here . Rep. Neal many of those discussions, as you know, are underway and how best to do it. The simplest answer would be something i would like to think i learned quite well along the way. Long legislative history. Its called an arcane procedure. That arcane procedure is really to let the measure passed if you find agreement. Its called unanimous consent. I was there that friday morning. I lead the debate on the democratic side. It was a bit surprising that there was anybody that could object to the procedure given to the fact the Surgeon General and tony fauci and dr. Birx others were saying you have to get this up and going right now. I think the speaker was about a row in front of me. We were practicing the six feet of social distancing. It was a bit louder than the conversations we usually have. We thought that procedure of unanimous consent was appropriate to the moment. All that means is that if there is no objection, legislative sessions can bring the matter to the floor and pass it. I think we could still do that again once the speaker and the administration reach an accommodation, which i expect will happen in the early days of this week. Stephanie in the political environment we are in, it is hard to imagine things reaching a unanimous consent. Especially, congress acted so quickly compared to other things to get this way above the stimulus passed. Do you feel like the pandemic has brought members across the aisle and of different factions of the party together. Does it feel different to you . Legislating in this environment . Rep. Neal for a moment, it was goodwill and trust. Those were items i embraced in the house of representatives. The men and women of goodwill were usually the ones that got things done. They werent those usually pining for media attention. They were much more interested in getting usmca done. Getting the secure act done. Getting the cares act out the door. That generally means i think its a pretty good idea. To hold some of our criticisms. There is plenty of room for criticism, but when you find yourself constantly criticizing the other side, its harder to find an agreement with them in a perilous moment like this. Not that criticism does not make us better. Moment like this, once you define the problem, you also have to define the solution. The conversation the speaker and i had about three weeks ago with secretary mnuchin, it hearkened back to a different time. I have had a Good Relationship with them. He said to me, mr. Chairman, if you get usmca done, i guarantee it will go to infrastructure. That has to be part of phase four. When the speaker and i were on the phone, he said i will call you back. Can you live with this . Can you live with that . It really hearkened to me to a different time where we did that kind of legislation. We were determined to get an outcome. I think that conversation did highlight that people that can sometimes differ on a wide range of issues also can find agreement with the threat america faces in this pandemic. Stephanie could you tell us more about that process. Meeting late at night or talking on the phone to get this all hashed out. What was your role in the daytoday to getting the phase done . Rep. Neal well, i think ive had the speakers ear in these deliberations and conversations largely because we served together for a long time. I also think the advantage republicans have and administers and have been dealing with Speaker Pelosi, they all know she can deliver her caucus. Some people say that is she should be able to do that. Modern politics, as you know, does not reward the Political Party system as much as it rewards individual players. I think she asked me many times about technical questions. She spoke to me about numbers issues. I did suggest we give Community Banks room. They generally would be the group that would have the best working relationship with Small Business. They got caught up in some of the reforms of 2008. I suggested based on advice bob room and gave to me he said use the intermediary of this Community Bank or get the money out the door fast. The speaker agreed with that and be somethingely the administration is receptive to, as well. I do think there has to be given give ae, and i will pretty accurate description. Ight now of legislative life democrats control one half of one third of the federal government. Thats the reality. But the one half of the one third we do control is the house of representatives, so to get in agreement, you cant run past us , and i think everyone has figured out you cant run over her, so why not legislate based upon the fact that you need the house of representatives to concur, and i think, again, good negotiators in moments like this are really important, and that doesnt mean you are an accommodationist. It means you are a legislator understanding the arithmetic in front of you. Stephanie speaking of bad arithmetic, how much do you expect the federal government is going to have to spend or borrow when it comes to these stimulus packages . Another 1200, 2400 payment, more funds for state and local governments, mayors. And this is all said and done, how much do you think it will cost . Rep. Neal another accompanying partner is the Federal Reserve board because they do monetary policy. And what the Federal Reserve board has done has essentially matched the input that congress has made. So they are buying loans, they are securing private debt, and that frees up the banks to loan more money, more quickly. And when i spoke with jay powell, chairman of the Federal Reserve board, i laid out what we were thinking of and he said i agree, go big. He encouraged at that time the conversation to go to the speaker, he called, he reiterated, go big. So right now between what we have done in the congress on fiscal policy and what the fed has done, you are north of 4 trillion right now. I think youre going to need more given Unemployment Insurance, hospitals, and i also think the infusion of cash into the hands of people who need it at the middle and lower end of the economic scale is going to ms. Murray talking about how much this is going to cost, it reminds me of something you have spoken about at length for years, which is the Social Security system, and how it is kind of teetering and in a few decades there might not be any money left. So, are we in a better position to go through this pandemic now than we would be in several decades . And what should the federal government be doing to prepare for the next big, lifechanging event, economic downturn, anything like that . Rep. Neal as you know, i am a laboring believer in the guarantee of Social Security. You can outlive an annuity. You cannot outlive Social Security. And we decided again after careful deliberation to get money into the hands of Social Security recipients. Retirement supposed to be a threelegged stool. It is supposed to be a retirement plan, which we addressed by granting people access to the 401 k s. Also supposed to involve personal savings. But there is a deadlock principle here, and that is the guarantee of mr. Roosevelts, genius, Social Security. The Social Security system, despite what we frequently hear, the Social Security system, even though it is paying out more than it is taking in, we have time to address that issue. But i would also Say Something that the number of people in america who rely upon Social Security for a major part of their Retirement Income is critical. The average Social Security benefit is about 16,000 a year. That means that half the people who receive Social Security benefit in america receive less than 16,000 a year. The legislation i recently authored asked the house to secure the most advanced Retirement Savings and 58 years. I intend to build upon it. Retirement savings is critical for all americans and during my time as chairman, i intend to make it a priority. Ms. Murray what about trade during a time when the economy has been ground to a halt . Travel of all kinds is locked into place. How are you thinking about tariffs and trade, and has your thinking changed at all, or does the country need to be doing Something Different now because of the situation we are in . Rep. Neal i have a Good Relationship with bob lighthizer. He shares many democratic views of trade. Anyone who said in a house of representatives that we were going to get almost 380 votes for a trade agreement, we would have said not long ago next stop for you is bellevue. After months, a year of negotiating with bob lighthizer, we were able to put together a hemispheric trade agreement that involved negotiating with Prime Minister trudeau, president lopez, and have a redoing of nafta, a hemispheric agreement that was endorsed by the aflcio and Teamsters Union as well as the american chambers of commerce, it was one of the highlights of my career. Something else with that was interesting, massachusetts is heavily dependent upon trade. We have a firstrate health care community. We have a firstrate tech sector. We handle our own as it relates to manufacturing. But massachusetts, given the ocean and given that airport and the Regional Airports as well, we are a tradedependent state. More than one third of our economy in massachusetts is trade related. So we are shaping these agreements so they accommodate all parts of the american family, it needs to be very important. I also think it is one of those interesting debates you go into, because this administration in washington, they share more democratic views of trade than republican views, but it is interesting and i think it is something you should maybe take a look at as a reporter, and that is the perspectives on trade are changing in america. This has been one of those moments when people are beginning to question how we might build better trade deals going forward. Ms. Murray on that note of massachusetts, i want to talk about some things that happened in your district that is kind of ongoing, and that is the tragedy unfolding at the holyoke soldier home. Another of veterans have passed away from the coronavirus, dozens of staff are infected. The governor has opened an independent investigation. The attorney general opened an investigation. And now the federal government is opening an investigation as well. So i just wanted to check in with you on that, and what accountability at the soldiers home will look like. And i know you have a personal connection there. Rep. Neal the soldiers home, my uncle has been there for a while. I am a frequent visitor. The mayor i started my career with, Bill Sullivan of springfield, he is there. I have many friends there. I would also highlight for anyone paying attention today the front page of the springfield republican has a very moving story this morning about tony king, who died of the coronavirus at 102 years old. He was part of that team that back in the 1930s with others who were on the team, they refused to participate in the Little League world series because an africanamerican would not be allowed to play in north carolina. And the gary brown column this morning, the story about tony king and his ears at the and his years at the soldiers home is a lesson for all americans. Thats years before Jackie Robinson came to play for the dodgers, it is years before dr. Kings i have a dream speech. A lot of women and men on the ground were doing a great job, and tony king at that time was barely out of his teens. The story was moving. But my uncle has tested positive. The soldiers home is a unique institution. It has some federal obligation, but overwhelmingly it is the state of massachusetts that administers to the soldiers home in holyoke. Many people think of it as a hospital. It is really a residence. And the proximity, particularly of the dementia unit, you can see how the contagion would spread very quickly, and it did. So i talked to governor baker extensively about this a number of times. And maura healy, as you noted, is opening an inquiry. U. S. Attorney is opening an inquiry. A lot of people at the soldiers home have died. Ive been in touch with the staff, nurses, and others, talked backandforth. Even though it is not a federal was helpful to i the soldiers home, teddy and i were believers in earmarking, and we were able to earmark support over the years for the soldiers home. Again, this is a residence, those men and women live at that facility. Ms. Murray so this is bringing us close to the end of our conversation, so i wanted to give you a few moments to make any points i did not ask you about or things i forgot to ask. Rep. Neal well, again, i think the National Principal should be foremost for all of us here. And the National Principal is that we do not check on what the geography of the country is as to who is being impacted. We do not ask about anybodys race or gender, or any of those issues. This is an american challenge. Its an international problem, an american problem as well. And i think applauding the first responders, those workers on the front lines, those who should remain in our prayers. And i am always grateful to academic institutions who live out history, and a lifelong friend in vicki kennedy, one of the most important holders of an american legislative memory, teddy kennedy. Ms. Murray thank you so much for being so generous with your time. Thank you to mrs. Kennedy. And on behalf of the Kennedy Institute, thank you so much for everyone who joined us this afternoon. This has been a really thoughtprovoking conversation for me. I hope you feel the same way. It was great speaking with you, congressman. Rep. Neal thank you. Cspans washington journal, live everyday with news and policy issues that impact you. Theesday morning, editorinchief of the journal of American Medical Association discusses the Science Behind covid19. N, the predecessor president elect of the Telemedicine Association talks about how virtual care can help during the pandemic. Congressmancratic on the impact of the coronavirus in his district and a bill he is sponsoring to provide Economic Relief for those impacted. Watch washington Journal Wednesday morning, and be sure to watch washington journal sunday morning as we look back on the oak loma city bombing Oklahoma City bombing. While the coronavirus pandemic is having an impact on the congressional schedule, steny hoyer announced members will not be back for legislative business until may 4, and Mitch Mcconnell has announced the same, two weeks after the chamber was originally scheduled to return. Furthermore, members have been advised that they give sufficient notice about returning to capitol hill if i have to return early. If they have to return early. The Daily White House coronavirus briefing, President Trump announced the United States would suspend funding to the World Health Organization while officials conduct a review to assess the organizations hand