And more them, 100,000 of them in the summer months were taking refuge in west german emphases in czechoslovakia, hungary and other places. They were trying to go to west germany. The country was hemorrhaging. At some point the leadership decided we have to let people travel. This point anyone between if you are under six or over 70 may be you could travel to the west. Most young adults could not travel. They decided to have a meeting and some new laws allowing east germans to go to the west, west berlin, west germany and see what it is like. It is late at night on the night of november 9. Official withried a piece of paper and he reads it and says soon people will be able to, without a visa, travel to the west. An Italian Journalist is in the audience and he says these germans are all seeing this. The Italian Journalist, and a flat voice, he says immediately. East berliners here this. Thousands left their homes. Some of them were in pajamas. They come with their families and they walked to the wall. The Border Guards are there. They say open the wall. The border guard does not know what to do. He only has instructions about what to do if trying to escape, to shoot people. These people are very peaceful and they are saying open the wall. He calls his superior. They say i dont know what to tell you. The guard himself made the decision. You can read it in the logbook. He says i will open the wall. Everybody streams through. The west berliners are waiting for them because they are waiting on Television Watching on television. It was really one guard deciding i will not kill these people. I will let them go. Host how prepared was the west, the United States, and russia to this announcement and the events of november 9 . Guest no one was well prepared. The soviets werent. They had ducked their heads into the sand and pretend it was not happening. That night of november 9 they tried to call moscow and no one picked up the phone until a couple of hours later. There were no instructions. This is the irony. This was a repressive state with all these laws. It had millions of people informing on each other but they had no preparation for a peaceful change. If you want to call in with your questions about the history of that date and the building of the wall for the 28 years the wall stood, if youre the eastern or central time zones, 202 7488000. Mountain or pacific time zones, 202 7488001. The special line we are keeping open for germanamericans, 202 7488002. Professor, as folks are calling in, remind people who eric honecker and helmut kohl were in their reactions that day. Guest eric honecker had been the leader of east germany since 1971. A very repressive state. He was the one that with the demonstrations started in different parts of east germany in 1989 would have been happy to call the troops out and kill people. The soviets did not let him do that. He was very much out of touch with reality. By november 9, he was no longer the leader of east germany. He had given away to a new leader, but he was well equipped. Helmut kohl was the chancellor of west germany from the christian democratic party. Even helmut kohl the year before the wall came down was asked, do you think you will see german unification . He said, not in my lifetime. Eric honecker said the wall will never come down and this will never happen. Kohl was not prepared for this. When it happened they understood this was a tremendous moment. They knew what they had to do but there was a lot of uncertainty. For a while and not sure the soviets wouldnt counter react, which they didnt. Host preunification happened less than a year later. We are talking early october of 1990. Why so quickly . When was it certain the reunification what happened . Guest once people could travel to the west more and more east germans set i will not stay here. I would rather live in westje germany. An attempt to keep people in east germany, helmut kohl decided to do a strange currency conversion with the east german valuehmark with the same as a west german deutschmark was w which was ridiculous because it wasnt. I think they realized as soon as a unified the country, they would get a hemorrhage of people coming to the west. In the end the soviets did not what unification. They thought you could have reform in east germany. In march they had their first free elections in germany and it would not work. The United States played a key role with the west germans and the soviet union in pushing the unification process forward and a couple should get in a year. Spent,rofessor angela stent, author of russia against the west. We are taking your phone calls this morning. We will start with steve out of webster, massachusetts. I joined the army in 1979. I studied czech, russian and serbian. My wife is also a linguist in the army. We went on the east berlin tour. Someone mentioned how dark it was. What stuck out to me was the 50 caliber bullet holes the soviets had a liver east berlin. They never fixed that up. A lot of unwrap on todays program. The fall of the wall was a large seminal moment in the fall of communism, but people have criticized our role in southeast asia. I heard it referred to as failures in southeast asia. These were our shooting wars against the communists where we gave our blood to fight communism, as well as in korea. You look today and people criticize our southern border. There is a large chinese presence and russian presence in that area, Central America and the caribbean. If you look at our wars in afghanistan and iraq, our enemies are all armed with ak47s, rpgs, foreign weapons provided by the communists. I am 100 e wall polish. My father was a tailgunner and world war ii. I had an uncle killed at anzio. It is a constant battle and it is great the wall fell. Host thanks for that call. Angela stent, the role that the wall plate in the fall of communism . Teeteringmunism was by the time the wall fell. Poland. Started in it started with a peaceful transition. A august of 1989, they had noncommunist government. It was like a series of dominoes falling. Then the hungarians already had moved away from, is him, a government from communism. Symbolism of the wall was so important. Communism had already begun to fall. When the wall fell i think every think accelerated. A couple of weeks later there was a revolution in czechoslovakia, the velvet revolution. Power. Dent came to at the end of the year you last domino falling in romania that was bloody. The leader and his wife are taken, tried and within 24 hours they were shot. What started with a peaceful role revolution and poland ended quite violently in romania. It was one of the most important pieces of it because it symbolized the division of europe. When you dont have a wall everyone can move around in the division erodes. Host east hartford, connecticut. This is david. Caller thank you for cspan. I have a collection of memories from the time. I was 10 years old and never ever football, the harvard crimson losing to the black. Nights, 5620 o i would rather ask a question for the professor. As the teaching of history in germany changed since unification . I will take my answer off the air. Guest thats a great question. Course,germany, of students were taught something complete the different than west germany. They were taught the east germans had actively no responsibility for hitler for the holocaust. That was the responsibility of the capitalists. Had toe walls had fallen completely revise the textbooks in east germany. They did this in conjunction with the west germans so students in both parts of germany had a similar curriculum. The other question is, how do you look on the communist state . You had on the show some sense there are people in the eastern germany that look back on those communist days what is certain about a nostalgia. They forget maybe the worst parts of it and they think maybe it was not such a bad life. It was not as competitive. People related to each other differently. On the question of textbooks, they are constantly rethinking how one approaches this. Its a challenge in the eastern germany for them to understand the full brunt of their own history. Host i want to talk about the birth of the berlin wall. 13 is considered the day the wall began to go up. What happened then in history . Guest if we go back to that period, it was a very repressive system. What the east germans decided to do was collectivized agriculture. Forcing people, farmers who had individual plots to live on collective farms. They did not want to do that. 1961, you can13, still go to east berlin and you could get on the train and you could go to the station which divided east and west berlin. You could then say, ok, i will now change trains and take the train to the west. There was an open border in berlin. People could still leave. In the days leading up to the construction of the wall, up to 2000 east germans were leaving east germany every day to go to the west because they wanted to get out. Whohat point the joke was was going to turn off the lights in east germany if we dont do something . The eastman leader german leader in the soviet leadership decided this has to change. Krusheph was in power v was in power. The timing was to prevent more east germans from leaving and to make sure the country still existed. Host we talked about different iterations of the wall. Wanted to become the wall that we see today that we think of today, the 12 foot high concrete wall . Guest in the beginning it was very crude and there was a lot of barbed wire. It took a couple of years and then it looked like the wall we see when it came down in 1989. Host pictures of the construction of the wall we can show our viewers as we listen to david from florida. Caller good morning. As always, thank you for cspan. Inemember the wall going up , and ofer kennedy west wasveryone in the very sad to see that. Paid and in 1991 1990, 1989, the wall came down. We persisted. President kennedy went in front of the wall and made his famous speech. Reaganu showed president going in front of the wall and calling for it being torn down. As an american i am very proud not,at, and believe it or ,s a jew i am proud of that that we persisted. Thank god for the government staying the course and fighting the cold war and bringing it down. Talksbefore angela stent about it, this is from president kennedy in 1963. [video] president kennedy there are some who say that communism is the wave of the future. Let them come to berlin. [cheers] kennedy there are some who would say in europe and elsewhere we can work with the communists. Let them come to berlin. [cheers] kennedy and there are that its who say true that communism is an evil system, that it permits us to make economic progress. Let them come to berlin. [cheers] all threekennedy men, wherever they may live, are citizens of berlin. Man, irefore, as a free in the words ich ben ein berliner. Host the significance of that moment . Guest it was very important. There are some debates. How much forewarning did the data sav the United States have at the wall was going up . Maybe the u. S. Could have prevented it. Obviously we couldnt. We would not have done something that probablynow, would have led to a conflict or a war with the soviet union. It was important for president kennedy to go to west berlin, stand there with the mayor and to show american support for the people in berlin, the people in west berlin. In the late 1940s, the soviet union tried to stamp out west berlin and the u. S. Had the berlin airlift and we saved people. Its important to show the solidarity and u. S. Support and u. S. Support for west germans and german unification was consistent throughout the decades. We were important in helping facilitate their unification. Host you mentioned the berlin airlift. Dig into that for a little bit. Guest just to explain to our viewers, the soviets tried to starve out west berlin. They wanted to take over west berlin. To them germany had been divided into two states. Were talking about 19471948. You had the presence of american, british and french troops in west berlin. The soviets tried to starve out west berlin. They tried to cut the lines of communication. What the United States did was to begin and airlift. We flew our planes and literally dropped food and other supplies. You can see photos of german children rushing and getting chewing gum and cigarettes, but also food. Supplies for the west berliners. We broke the soviet blockade. That was a turning point because it meant we were a presence in west berlin until unification. Host professor angela stent. We are taking your phone calls this morning. Wes, spartanburg, south carolina. Caller great to be on cspan. This program is awesome. I wanted to make a comment about maybe the flavor of it. There are a lot of german manufacturing here, especially textiles. Bmw is here, too. There were three large sections of the wall i think it was metzger that put it right on the interstate between greenville and spartanburg, south carolina. I remember in that time. I love this program. Is there a book you can recommend that people read about this time that captures the flavor . Book youd be a good think would give some of the flavor of the things you know about this conflict at this time . All, i have of written a book called russia and germany reborn reunification and the soviet collapse in the new europe. It details how the wall came up and down it the soviets and u. S. And all the other countries did. I think you will have another guest on soon. She just wrote a new book about the fall of the wall. Host thank you for that preview. Guest i have not read it yet but im sure its a very good book. Host talk to us about your latest book. Guest the fall of the Welcome Center this. Ns russia with limited resources, the gdp the size of italy, declining population, how was it able to reassert itself on the world stage . Even where the relations with the west were bad, relations with china, india are much better. We have seen russia back in the middle east now. I have a section on the relationship between germany. Its interesting to remember mr. Utin got his start as a midlevel kgb officer in east germany. Angela merkel grew up in east germany. For putin, the fall of the wall was really key. I go into this in my book. He was interested at the time of the wall fell. Germans fell, the east where thee building soviet kgb was cohead courted with the east German Secret Police and demanded to see files. Putin, and out of biographical essay published when he became president in 2000 describes how they stayed up all night feeding all the files into the furnace. The furnace exploded. It was quite a frightening experience for all of them. They did not know what was going to happen. Putin called moscow and said, what should i do about this . Nobody picked up the phone. If you want to understand Vladimir Putin and his attitude life, go backds to dresden. We have a picture of people of east berlin going to i offices and wanting to see their files that was kept there. Talk about the trials afterwards. End a lot of people did see their files. Out there were a lot of people first of all, west painful what was was when people started to find out their loved ones, members of their family had been informing on the. There was a famous east german writer. It turned out her husband was informing the secret police. This was a pernicious thing about east germany. The extent to which so many people in the population became informersorkers for the ease German Secret Police. Telling tales on their coworkers and even on their own families. A great outpouring and questioning of what people lives had been. It turns out your husband had been informing on you. You have to wonder what it all meant. Host fume is left with professor angela stent a few minutes left with professor angela stent. Richard in virginia, good morning. Caller how are you doing today . Host doing well. Caller the berlin wall was a great thing. It made people smile. It made people feel good. It was a positive thing. I wish we had more of that going on right now. There is some positive in the world. Its just all the offices this but on bad stuff emphasis is put on bathtub. Stuff. Asis is on bad want to feelwhy we bad. Get theant to do is news on all the bad stuff. There is so much to smile about. Ive got one more comment. It is the 30year anniversary. We should think about that all day today. The white house spokesman, she is definitely the most beautiful woman ive ever seen in my life. On how wela stent should feel about today in the anniversary of the fall of the berlin wall. Guest i think we should definitely feel positive. It ended a horrible system. The last nail in the coffin of the communist system in Eastern Europe. We should have positive feelings maybe we understanding had exaggerated ideas about how easy it would be to integrate the east end west germans east and west germans. If it is that hard, how much more difficult it has been for the rest of Eastern Europe and in russia for the postsoviet states to make the transition. It will take a very long time. We should be positive but realistic about how long it will take to get over the defamation of this system. Host professor Angela Angela stent. You can follow her on twitter. Putins world. Up next, more of your phone calls. Stay on the line. We will get to your call and talk about your thoughts and memories from 30 years ago today. If you are in the eastern or central time zones, 202 7488001 if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones. The special line for germanamericans, 202 7488002. As you continue to call in we will show you president George H W Bushs public reaction to the news they wall had opened when he talk to reporters in the oval office on the afternoon of november 9, 1989. [video] did you imagine anything like this happening . President bush i imagined it but i cannot say i foresaw this development at this state. I did not foresee it, but imagining it, yes. I talked about europe whole and free. We talked about this freedom, staying with and living by which gives people the rights to come and go. [indiscernible] you dont seem related. President bush i emulated. Im just not an emotional kind of guy. Im very pleased. Im very pleased with a lot of developments. , which isited states not related to this developer today, is being handled in a proper fashion. We will have some that will suggest more flamboyant courses of action for this country. Think, handling this properly with allies. Trying to help as Development Takes place. Enhance reform political and economic. The fact im not bubbling over, i feel very good about it. [indiscernible] there are about 200,000. What if there are a million . President bush i like to think with the political change, it would catch up very fast with this liberalization, if you will. Before i went to poland i dont know if jim baker was sitting next to me. I was asked by the polish journalists if i were a young pole, what would my advice be . I said i think you ought to stay there and participate in this dramatic change in your country. Feel the surge of freedom. Feel the move towards democracy and be a part of it. These are germans. Germans love their country. At some point i think a lot of andans who felt pinned in unable to move and move, but wouldnt it be better to participate in the reforms taking place in their own country . Host clear back in the berlin wall gallery at the museum just down pennsylvania avenue from the capital building. Its our home this morning on the washington journal on
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