Stand up for traditional Republican Values. We were always the rule of law party, and we see that not being the case as much anymore, and wee very concerned about it. Host joining us here with questioning in washington, simone, senior politics reporter with roll call, and josh, who is National Journals ace political editor. Thanks for joining in. I do want to begin with news this sunday, the tweet bit president late yesterday regarding his property in miami, the doral, his decision to scrub plans to host the g7 in miami. He wrote the following i thought i was doing something very good for our country by using Trump National doral in miami for hosting the g7 leaders. It is big, grand, on hundreds of acres, next to Miami International airport, has tremendous ballrooms, meeting rooms, and each delegation would essentially have its own 50 to 750unit building, which is set up better than any of the alternative. I announce i would be willing to do it at no profit for legally permissible at zero cost to the u. S. A. , but as usual, the hostile media and the democratic partners went crazy, and so this announcement from the president , therefore, based on both media and democratic crazed and irrational hostility, we will no longer consider Trump National doral miami as the host site for the g7 in 2020. We will begin the search for another site, including the possibility of camp david, immediately. Thank you. Exclamation mark. Sarah longwell, your reaction . Sarah i mean, its good that he is no longer holding the event at the doral, but, of course, first he managed to give himself what is millions of dollars of free publicity for one of his hotels by, you know, making sure we all knew how good ballrooms were. But this is the kind of behavior from the president that weve been seeing from the beginning. You know, he doesnt seem to be taking the presidency seriously. You know, he treats it as though it is from start to finish an opportunity for him to build his brand, build his wealth, and for people who love this country, for republicans who love this party, to see forget trump. Trump is who he is. But to see republicans going out and saying that that was ok, to say that for marco rubio to say, well, as a floridians, selfishly im very glad were going to host this at the doral. Republicans know this kind of thing is wrong. You know, its unconstitutional. Its against he will on the umet clause. Thnts the kind of behavior that we want to see out of a republican president , and republicans should be condemning this kind of thing. And thats really the reason that we started, because we just didnt see many republicans standing up for the values that we know they at least iced to hold. Host let me turn to the senior politics reporter for roll call. Sarah, your group is spending a lot of money on television timentses. Tell us, what is your strategy there . Whos your audience . Who are you trying to convince . Sarah you know, theres a group of republicans that we feel like are the kind of people who will stand up and do the right thing when push comes to shove. Even though ill admit theres a lot of evidence to the contrary. And, yes, weve launched a Million Dollar campaign targeted at about 15 house members and 12 senate 12 members of the senate, in order to encourage them to speak out, specifically on the issue of ukraine, where the president is accused of withholding funds or a quid pro quo in order to pressure a vulnerable ally, you know, from in order to pressure a vulnerable ally to investigate his political opponent. Thats wrong. That is foreign interference in an american election. And so our goal is to get republicans to simply say that, to say its wrong, whether its doral or whether its foreign interference, were trying to encourage republicans to say this is not ok. Because for too long the behavior that weve seen from republicans is to just kind of either duck the questions, hey, i havent read the report, hey, i havent read the whistleblower testimony, or theyve actively supported this type of thifpblgt i mean, Mick Mulvaney saying this week, yeah, there was a quid pro quo, get over it, this is what happens all the time. This is not what republicans believe. It is genuinely not. And so our goal is to really try to find the people who might Say Something and give them to encourage them to speak out, northbound one, and number two, we really want to focus on educating their quit a about the what the president did. One of the things we see all the time, there was a poll that came out where only 40 of republicans knew that the president had told ukraine to investigate the bidens. Even though he admitted it. And so part of it is really just educating republicans. I mean, we do most of our advertising on fox news or online targeted at republicans, because we see a big part of our mission at giving these republicans the information them might not otherwise be getting. Simone im curious, when it comes to republican lawmakers, who do you think has the spoast credibility to speak out . A lot of folks in districts youve advertised in, theyre retiring. We saw most recently a florida representative rooney expressing legitimate concerns about the president and potentially leaving the door open to supporting impeachment. Then he come out last night and says hes not running for reelection. What kind of credibility do these republicans have to speak to their constituents about this issue, if theyre not running . Sarah well, they absolutely still have credibility, and whats incredibly sad i mean, its funny, rooney wasnt even on the list of people we were targeting. That was quite heartening to see theres republicans we werent necessarily thinking about who might stand up and Say Something. But it is a real shame that he feels like in order to say what he believes, he has to retire. And that seems to be, you know, what i mean, you see so many republicans in texas retiring. It seems like people, to feel like they can say what they actually believe, they feel like they can no longer continue their role in congress, which is a huge problem. But theres a lot of people that i think look i still think those people have credibility, but also, theres a number of people in the senate who have tremendous credibility to speak out on this, and you know, im eyes right now are on mitt romney, because mitt romney, in terms quhaff hes been out there saying, it seems like he really is ready to step up into this kind of elder statesman role and call things out for what they are. And i think because he was the leader and the standardbearer of the Republican Party for quite some time, does he have the credibility to go to some of the other senators, like susan collins, like ben sass, like Lamar Alexander, and say, look, enough is enough. It is our responsibility, it is our role in this moment to say that this is not ok, to make sure that all the facts come out in this investigation, and to stand up for the future of the party. I mean, thats what thats why mitt romney is so important, because this is a person whos been a republican for lot longer than donald trump has been a republican. He cares about the future of the party regardless of whether or not hes going to be part of it. Host hes also getting that at a lot of criticism, senator romney that is, within the Republican Party, often accused of being a rhino and getting some really sharp blowback from supporters of the president. Sarah yeah, i mean, there was i actually think it was a crazy advertisement from club for growth accusing him of being a democratic asset. But look, this is just this is the environment were in, where a republican who tries to stand up to the president either thinks they have to retire or they get smeared by other republicans. Trump attacks them on twitter. And frankly, thats why theres not a lot of incentive to speak out, because when you do, lot of the democrats say, well, its too little, too late. Theres not really a tremendous constituency for doing the right thing. And i would say that again is sort of why we wanted to, you know, why we started the organization and why we want to spend money to support people who are willing to speak out and run advertisements to explain to their constituency why its the right thing and why its so important to do that. Host josh is the politics he had for for national journal. Josh . Josh a luded to theres not much of a constituency within the Republican Party to do the right thing in your mind, and certainly 80 to 90 of republicans have pretty much been with President Trump since the beginning of his administration. Have you seen in the last couple of weeks, with the developments in ukraine, with the withdrawal from syria abruptly, with the news about doral and then the change in mind under republican pressure, do you see any polling or any developments that make you think the republican voting base has changed in the view of the president . Sarah the voting base. Thats a good question. I thought where you were going to go is do you see any sort of chinks in the armor among republican legislators, and the answer is yes, i do. I think youve seen a lot of republicans rebuking the president , whether it was on doral, syria. I mean, lot of republicans are actively heartbroken about whats happening in syria, and just from a rank political standpoint, its bad timing for the president , because he needs all the republicans, you know, lining up to support him on this impeachment inquiry, and instead of doing things that would encourage them to kind of stick with him, hes, you know, pulling out of syria, this incredibly irresponsible way. Hes doing these selfenrichment things with doral that embarrasses republicans. Theres a Washington Post story yesterday that jells with what i hear from republicans hinted scenes, where they feel like hes taking their support for granted, and hes really sort of pushing them to the most embarrassing places possible in terms of defending him. But your question about rankandfile republicans, you know, the Republican Party is interesting, because trump has really changed the contours of the Republican Party. But i would say in a very crude breakdown of republicans, theres about 60 that sort of view themselves as trump supporting primarily, and then theres sort of another 40 that view themselves as supporting the party primarily. And i think among that 40 , where theyre kind of republicans first as opposed to kind of in that cult of trump, those are the ones who get really you know, they like their judges. They like their tax cuts. They like that he sort of calls out some of the democratic excesses. But these are also the people who do not like the withdrawal from syria, who are very skeptical about the trade war with china, who do see some of the behavior, like quid pro quo for a political investigation, that makes them concerned. And i think one of the nabs youve seen moving the most is actually among independents. So a lot of those republicans are sort of rightleaning independents. Those are a lot of the people you saw break in 2018 and go ascommed vote for democrats and vote for democrats and allow them to flip 40 seats. Theres always going to be this base of republican support for trump that, again, he shoots someone on fifth avenue, theyll find an excuse for why he did it, but theres another sort of cohort of republicans that at some point could say enough is enough. The struggle is always with that group, you know, what are the democrats doing . Who is their nominee . You know, what do they see happening on the democrats side that gives them a place to go . Because, you know, ultimately a lot of times republicans are doing this, which is worse. But trump is really, really testing that right now. Josh what do you think the odds are of a impeachment trial and getting the 20 republican senators necessary to remove him from office . As you allude, there are republicans privately who have concerns about some of the actions that the president has taken, but when they sandole they listen to the republicans in their districts or states, that supply side of the folks who elect them are pretty much with trump no matter what. How would you assess the odds or the chance of any senate trial getting enough republicans to break with the president . Sarah i think thats hard to game out right now, because its really going to come down to what are the facts on the ground. Republicans were with nixon until they werent, you know . And what happened was something came out that was incontrovertible evidence that nixon had done the thing that he was accused of. And so republicans, they actually didnt impeach him. You know, Barry Goldwater walked in with, you know, the Republican Leadership and said, look its over, were not going to defend you anymore. And so, you know, if you have to game out right this second, do i think its incredibly difficult to think that 20 republican senators are going break with the president . Yeah, it seems unlikely, but first of all, i think that i think some will. I dont think they will get no republican votes. And i think that, you know, theres a lot more that could potentially come out. I mean, whatever Rudy Giuliani was doing seems very sketchy, and youve got all of these ambassadors coming in now that clearly are providing evidence that i think republicans are probably very nervous about. Again, Mick Mulvaney saying yes, there was a quid pro quo, if that continues, i do think at some point, you know, despite all of the sunk costs into trump, republicans are going to want to maintain some shred of credibility and may just say, you know what, maybe its time for president mike pence. Its just all gone too far. But clearly were not there yet. So its going to be a matter of what else comes out in the course of this investigation. Josh you mentioned mitt romneys name as a leading advocate for your position, but can you name a few other senators that you think will be willing to hear your side, would be willing possibly to break with the president if there was a trial that takes place . Sarah yeah, i think Lisa Murkowski definitely somebody to look at. Sheems the one person who voted sheets one person who voted against brett kavanaugh. I would look at all of the republicans who voted against the president s Emergency Declaration to take money and build the wall. Lamar alexanders retiring. Johnny isaac son, the senator, is retiring. Theres a few of those people. I mean, Lamar Alexander is an incredibly serious statesman. I could see him looking at this and just saying, look, the last thing i do in my Senate Career is not going to be to vote to exonerate a president who has clearly done something wrong. I remain hopeful every day about ben sass. He has broken my heart time and time again. He voted hes a tremendous constitutional conservative, and he voted for that national emergency, which ive really never been able to understand. But i know that hes a good person and that he cares about the rule of law and he cares about the constitution. So i think that the difference between the Impeachment Vote and this is something i think people forget. Its one thing for these republicans to have to when theyre talking to the press or whatever, kind of brush these things aside. This will be an up or down vote that they will have to take. So they know that they will be on the record saying, yeah, its ok that he obstructed justice. Its ok that he abused his power and invited foreign interference into our election. It will be an up and down vote on that. So i think that theres people keep asking me. You know, whats the overunder . Maybe two republican senators. I would put my money, even if i had to game it out right now, closer to five or six. Simone where does Vice President pence stand on the rule of and law how tied up in this administration he . Is he someone you would support as a republican president . Sarah well, i think that in this moment, it would be absolutely better if mike pence were president than donald trump. That being said, i have been extremely disappointed in how mike pence has behaved. You know, if you go back and look at some of the tape of all republicans, but particularly of mike pence, talking about values, talking about the rule of larbgs talking about the clintons, and talking about how balls the clinton foundation, he has lots of statements where he says, you know, its not ok for foreign governments to participate in american politics. So for him to now sort of say get over it, it doesnt matter, its wildly disappointing. And i think, you know, this is going to be the question for a lot of republicans who have kind of abandoned all of our principles and proven their ethics to be quite situational in an effort to support the president. I think the question is, when all of this is over, when trump is gone, you know, its hard to just go back and say, no, no, no, really, were the party of values. No, really, were the party of the rule of law. People have sort of gambled their credibility on this president , and it will be very hard to exert any kind of moral credibility when we have to rein in the democrats on executive power. And basic, nobody has been more disappointing than mike pence on that. Host joining us on cspan radio here on newsmakers, our guest is Sarah Longwell, executive director of the organization republicans for the rule of law. Joining us in the questioning is simone and well turn back to josh, who covers politics for the national journal. Josh weve got a president ial race coming up. There are three, at least three republicans running in a primary against President Trump. Is it possible your group will endorse any one of those primary challengesers . And why not go is there any possibility you kind of pursue an alternative from to have trump on the independent ticket or someone who may have a better chance if democrats nominate someone to the left, trump is renominated, someone who may have a chance to win on a thirdparty candidacy . Sarah yeah, were certainly not going to endorse donald trump, and right now we sort of endorse those three republican challengers as a package and think that it is great that there are republicans out there , two former governors, a former congressman, who said im not just going to stand by and let this happen, im going to try to do something about that. I do think that theres a real chance that we see an independent challenger coming from the right. I think justin amash has been doing a lot of hiring lately. Hes obviously changed his party to independent and left the Republican Party, and hes been very outspoken. So it would surprise me at all to see him run as an independent or potentially as a libertarian. And i also think if the nominee is Elizabeth Warren, theres going to be a lot of conversation about the idea that theres kind of a big group of voters in the middle who are underserved. Now, weve seen Howard Schulz kind of, you know, take a run at that, and that didnt go so well. But he was coming at this as a democrat, somebody from the center left. I think theres a real opportunity for somebody kind of from the center right who what are some rt oldschool Republican Values, and then more modernized Republican Values or maybe puts forward a more modern vision of what the either the Republican Party could be or even just articulate a vision for the country that is sort of brings together center right and center left. At this point, those are the people that are quite underserved, assuming thats assuming it is elizabeth wear refpblet but it feels like theres a voice for sort of the exhausted majority that could emerge. Simone would your group ever support a democrat . Sarah you know, the group has not really made endorsements one way or the other. You know, nobody has asked me during this conversation about never trump, but i would put myself in that never trump category, so never means never. Look, if joe biden was the nominee, just speaking for myself personally, i would have no trouble voting for him. In this moment. That doesnt mean i would support all of his policies, but look, i would believe that he would put the country first, that he would not be running to just enrich himself wildly. I mean, i even think the reason hes doing this i mean, hes quite advanced in age at this point. I dont think hes doing this for himself. I think hes doing it because hes very worried that the options that the country is going to be faced with is somebody very far left, like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders, and trump. And so if he was the nominee, i would happily vote for him in this political moment, while at the same time trying to figure out how do you rebuild the Republican Party so that it can become a responsible governing party again . If you look at the numbers of support for donald trump, his constituency is quite old. It is sort of 65 plus. And so i think that theres a real opportunity with sort of a new generation of republicans top try to take a run at a new vision for the party. But, you know, to do that, frankly, i think that not just donald trump has to lose, but there has to be an active repudiation of trump and trumpism and the country sort of needs to stand up in one big scomboop say, you know what, we did this, it was the wrong decision, and well never do it again. Host Sarah Longwell, let me follow up. Because if you do nominate a center left or center right candidate as an independent, and if hypothetically Elizabeth Warren is the democratic nominee, does that not then almost ensure the reelection of donald trump from your standpoint . Sfoip its a center left candidate, it does. I think thats why Howard Schulz got out and Mike Bloomberg hasnt run. But i think if theres a more center right candidate host such as . Sarah im not going to name any names, but i think all along, theres people who have known that its possible that either bernie searneds or Elizabeth Warren would be the nominee and donald trump would not nominee, and there are people who sort of looked at the race to say neighbor another republican got in there, you know, you wouldnt be a spoiler, and that would reelectricity donald trump, and you would have the potential to maybe even bring together enough of a constituency to win. Ill go back to justin amash as one name that is out there and is fair to say i would have a hard time seeing tons of democrats voting for justin amash. Hes very conservative. One of the most conservative members of congress. So i think if he ran, do i think he can win . Probably not. Do i think he takes much more many more votes from donald trump than Elizabeth Warren . I do. Josh just to clarify, you said youre a never trumper under all circumstances, but would you support if it came down to a twocandidate race between warren or sanders versus trump, would you vote for the democrat . Sarah were going to assume theyre the only two people in there. Yeah. Its a tough thing to have to answer. But theres no and look, if it was elizabeth wear rernings i would probably turn around immediately and figure out how do you, again, how do you reconstitute the Republican Party, how do you beat Elizabeth Warren with somebody who is a responsible and hopefully inspiring person on the right who has kind of a new vision for what the party could be . But i think that donald trump is an existential threat to the country. I dont think he has read or cares about the constitution. I dont think he puts the country first. I think what is happening in syria, what is happening to the way that we respect values and norms and institutions, im not sure our country can sustain another four years of donald trump and not have there be some quite catastrophic consequences. And in fact, there already have been, some that are really bad. I do not think Elizabeth Warren should be president. I would not support many of her policies. But if its a binary scommoice births making sure that trump is no longer running the country, then i will do that, and i will figure out what the next step is from there. Josh if trump does lose next november, how bitter a fight do you envision the future for that soul of the Republican Party being, and who are some names of politicians that you would like to see republican the party that you think actually republican your vision of what the g. O. P. Should be looking like . Sarah there are some excellent young congressmen. Congressman will h ru d, who is very, unfortunately, retiring. Republican active Adam Kinsinger is somebody who i respect a great deal. Mike gallagher, representative mike gala dwer, theres a group of younger lodge fors who i think at one point were really looked at as the future of the party, and now you get a guy like will hurd whos retiring, but he has said that its possible he would run for president in 2024. And, you know, somebody like, i would say, this is just my personal opinion, my jury is still out a little bit on nikki haley. Shes somebody who i think three or four years ago i would have been extremely excited about. I think it gets harder when you see how people have behaved in terms of being complicit to trump. But, you know, theres an opportunity for i dont quite know how theyd navigate stepping back and presenting something new if youre nikki haley or somebody else whos kind of worked in this administration. But again, theres a sort of Younger Group of legislators that i think could really blaze just an entirely new path, which is really whats needed. Simone if a lot of the members you alluded to feel like they can no longer stray in congress, speaking out against trump, what path are they going to blaze . What role are they going play in rebuilding the party, and how do they do that from outside of politics . Sarah well, will hurd is going to be outside of politics. The other two will still be the ones i mentioned are still in congress. But look, i think its possible that some of the blazing of this might have to be outside of congress. Thats too bad, but, you know, the republicans dashte reason that so many people are retiring is because republicans know theyre not going to be in power and that their power probably going to diminish even further in 2020. So i think there is going to have to be something done from sort of outside the party, and again, done from sort of a group of younger republicans. But to the point of question nasty is that fight going to be, i think the answer is pretty nasty. In already that warfare the party is quite severe. But it has to be done. I mean, you see things like Sarah Huckaby sanders running for governor of arkansas or cory lieu ban dow ski talking about running for senate in new hampshire. The Republican Party is going to have one of two paths. Either sanity is going to rear its head and were going to make a real stand kind of for the soul of the party, or its going to become a Trumpist Party for a long time, in which case id imagine the people in the first group either have to start their own party or figure out how to pull the democrats back to the center. I mean, i dont know what the answer is. I wish i d. These are incredibly difficult questions. But the fact is the party has been hijacked. It no longer represents what it once did. And, you know, its a real open question about how we get it back. But i will say this. It is very important that we do, in the sense that you have to have two responsible good morning parties. Im very concerned about sort of the grievance politics, populist sentiment that is taking over, and i look at somebody like Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders and donald trump, and theres actually quite a bit in common between those two groups. Theres this sort burn it all down mentality. I find it very frightening, and i think its extremely important that people who believe in the constitution, in the promise of democracy, and in capitalism, frankly, to come together and try to fight for the country. Sarah Sarah Longwell joining us here in washington. She is the executive director of an organization, republicans for the rule of law. Thank you for being with us on newsmakers. Sarah thanks so much. Host we continue our conversation, bottom line, is this organization where the Republican Party is based on the polling . Josh not right now. And the big question is, has this tumultuous two, threeweek period for the white house changed republican voting positions . You do have these cracks. You do have francis rooney, now retiring congressman from florida, speaking out very critically of a president he once close al lined with. Mitt romney, i mean, you have names, sunes collins, certain mainstream republican senators and congressmen have spoken out, but theyve been zpue far between. 80 plus of the Republican Party voting base is with trump no matter what. Simone time and time again, in primaries especial, weve seen loyalty to trump is the litmus test in the Republican Party. Im not sure how a group like this airs ads supporting the folks that they want to support without potentially hurting them. Host im going to get some reaction to this editorial this morning thats been getting a lot of teaningts last couple of days from mitch mcconnell, basically stating president s decision in syria a grave mistake. So where does this put the Senate Republican leader and the white house . Simone its interesting he chose not to use the president s name, so hes obviously trying to protect that relationship a little bit. But clearly, for the first time that i can remember in the past two years, youre seeing a large break between Senate Republicans and House Republicans and the white house. I think the question is whether that is sustainable or whether well see them walk it back and become more in lock step with the white house. Host earlier torked a tweet from the president , quoting his defense secretary, saying basically the ceasefire is holding along the border and saying that we are bringing our soldiers home. This is a minor point, but he called his defense secretary another name. Josh and troops are not coming home to the united states. Theyre still being stationed in iraq. Theres been a lot of inconsistencies with the president s Foreign Policy. Mcconnells oped on syria has given republicans in the senate space, political space, to criticize the president s decisions. Lindsey graham has also been very vocal in criticizing whats been going on. This is not a moment where trump can afford too much, too many defections from his own party. I mean, the impeachment battle is going to take up every ounce of energy from republicans that defend him. They cant be busy having to deal with his decision initially to go to doral for the g7 or defend his Foreign Policy on syria. Host on that decision, the president is not one to back down. Did he back down on the doral, and if so, why . Simone i think he did. I think the political pressure here was just too much about a decision that really, the optics of it undercut his entire argument about the bidens being corrupt, so i dont know who told him that. But i think at the end of the day, it just became too much weight for him to bear. Josh yeah, the president the math is very difficult to get any if it goes to a senate trial, to get 20 republicans calling for his removal. But we can see what happens with a few loud voices that speak out, romney and a few others. You could see things falling apart if the president doesnt tend to his own base, to his allies in the senate. I think he realized that with the decision on doral. Host what are you looking for this week . Simone to see how democrats treekt all this. Do they overplay their hand . How do they make sure, especially some of the moderate democrats in competitive districts, how do they make sure that they are standing up for what they believe in, but still tending the voters who bucked parties to support them and elect them in 2018 . Josh whats going on in syria . Is the ceasefire over . If things get worse in the middle east, thats going put more pressure on this president. Host we will look for your reporting at cq onaljournal. Com and at roll caufment this Program Also Available on the web at cspan. Org. Thanks for tuning in. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] caps caps [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] tonight, American University distinguished professor of history looks back at policies on managing immigration. I would argue that the current wave of nativism, of antiimmigrant sentiment, of andeen phobia is not different from what weve seen in the ast. Whale it seems to be peppered with acts of violence and ferocity, there have been other cts of violence. In the period before the civil war, antiimmigrant riots in the 1880s. There have been a lot of moments in American History when the antiimmigrant sentiment has been translated into true ugliness. Watch tonight at 8 00 p. M. Eastern on cspans q a. Power in washington is like crack cocaine. You know, once you get on it and you have it, you dont want to give it up, and you will do anything to stop someone whos going to take your power away from you. Tonight at 9 00 p. M. Eastern on after words, in his latest book, fox news legal and political analyst gregg jaret offers his thoughts on the Mueller Report and the investigation of russian interference in the 2016 election. Hes enter interviewed by the chair of the american conservative union. Mueller should never have been special counsel. He was a fact witness. And he wasnt honest with the president. He didnt say to the president , by the way, mr. President , ive agreed to be a special counsel to investigate you. He wasnt forthright. He wasnt honest and truthful to the president , which to me is unconscionable. Watch it tonight at 9 00 eastern on book tv on cspan2. After the Trump Administration decision to withdraw u. S. Troops from northern syria, a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee held a hearing on the final report from the syria study group. The groups cochairs testified on the findings of the republican and how they can be applied to the Current Situation with syria and turkey. And turkey
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