The hearing will come to order. Good morning. Protecting american seniors from scammers who seek to defraud them is a central goal of this committee. In the past six years, we have hearings on frauds and scams we must find ways to combat those who steal billions from our seniors and block moving and robo calls. Callers generated more than 26 billion unwanted calls that reached mobile phones. When land lines are included, the number source to 48 billion. Alone, residents received 93 million robo calls last year. Of 73 callsverage to each person in our state. So far, scammers are on pace to generate more than 58 billion billion unwanted calls. Scammers are initiated by offshore robo callers using new theirlogies to perpetuate schemes. We will focus on a practice called spoofing. Scammers to mask their identity by replacing their caller id with one that fits their story. See the internal sheriffservice or department pop up, they understandably understand answer the phone. They are worried, scared, and easily hustled into doing whatever the scammer demands. Moderne emergence of the voice over internet protocol technology, criminals can operate from call centers anywhere in the world. From american Law Enforcement as they can possibly get. Generating millions of robo calls at a low cost. Our committee has called on regulators and the Business Community to Work Together more aggressively to stop scammers from using technologies to facilitate fraud. Seen some progress on that front. Developed a program to identify the source of illegal robo calls. Implementing new technology that will allow consumers to towel whether the caller id is legitimate or has been spoofed. The implementation and the cost of these technologies has been slow. On the positive side, we are seeing a more aggressive and coordinated approach. In 20, the department of justice let a federal investigation that closed down five call centers in india. A few weeks ago, the federal trade commission announced an operation, a major crackdown against foreign and domestic defendants allegedly responsible for more than one billion calls to consumers. The federal Communications Commission has also been more active. These actions represent progress our community has pressed for to crackdown on robo callers. Now the committee is calling for a nextgeneration approach. Not only to crackdown on the criminals, but to consider new networkwide solutions to prevent call spoofing fraud in the first place. Recently taken an important step by passing an act which i was proud to be a cosponsor of. I hope it will be signed into law soon. Today, along with many of my theeagues, i am introducing antispoofing penalties modernization act which will complement provisions by doubling existing penalties and extending the statute of limitations in prosecuting illegal spoofing. Despite all of these efforts, the number of robo calls is expected to soar. To defeat these scammers, we need new technological approaches. We know from experience the scammers are ruthless and relentless. As the fraudsters can access telephone networks, they will flood our phones with billions of calls in search of new victims. The key to defeating these illegal is to block the robo calls from foreign call centers closer to their source before they can reach the american consumer. Networklearn about new level approaches with the potential to ultimately stop robo call spoofing fraud altogether. , and wehe technology will be reminded of this, we must never forget our purpose is to protect the victims of these scammers. Too many seniors continue to learn lose their money. Often, their entire retirement safeties too often, their entire Retirement Savings to con artists. I am pleased to turn to our Ranking Member, for his opening statement. Thank you for holding this hearing and your opening statement. I know many in our country are divided in a range of issues. We are united as americans despising these robo calls. Moreome, they have become than a nuisance. Artists artist con turn a conversation into a heist. They threaten loved ones and rip away savings. Criminals can cause tragedy. The perpetrators of these crimes must be pursued and prosecuted to the full extent of the law and they should be behind bars. I was pleased to support resources for the department of justice and the federal trade commission to successfully engage in two of the largest sweeps of companies facilitating these calls in the criminals and the criminals making them. Even these actions which took place earlier this year have not deterred the con artists. As one of our witnesses will explain, some fraudsters only seem more emboldened. They rake phone lines so the number that shows up appears to be that of a local police or Sheriffs Office. Countrys across the dont take such impersonation lightly. These schemes require an investment of time and resources from officers across the country. Keeping our streets and communities safe. Spendofficials must precious time keeping phone lines safe. This is why i am pleased to have senior scamse stop act. It will create a line of defense bankst scammers by giving tellers and others the tools to spot a scam and prevent someone from handing over cash to a stranger. This bill is enacted swiftly. Much of what we will discuss is how these crimes occur, but we must not forget the role industry and regulators play preventing a robo call from being connected in the first place. We must make sure the rules are in place to allow industry to adopt and implement the most uptodate often to authentication. I am pleased the Senate Passed , the trace act. The federal Communications Commission finalized new rules to help this technology, help get it to every consumer. We have a lot more to do. Very well being of our loved ones is at stake. I look forward to hearing more. We thank our witnesses. I look forward to working with chairman collins to put an end to these calls. Thank you. I want to thank senator scott for being with us. He has been an active member of the aging committee and we are very happy to have him here. We will now turn to our witnesses. Our first joined us from texas. She is the granddaughter of marjorie jones. Today, she testifies in memory of her grandmother. The hundredse for have fallen who victim to older fraud. I will turn to the Ranking Member. To introduceed sheriff sanders. Sheriff. Served as he previously served as a sheriffs deputy and later retired as chief inspector. In addition to his ground, he is a minister in his church. And as a chaplain at a retirement community. Even Law Enforcement and religious leaders are not spared from getting tangled up in these robo calls. I would like to welcome the sheriffs wife who i think is right behind him. Deputy, both of whom have made the trip to be with us today. Thank you both for being here. I look forward to hearing your testimony. Witness, a postal theector who oversees criminal Investigative Unit of the u. S. Postal service. Throughout her 15 years of service for the Postal Service, she has managed teams focused on various forms of theft and Money Laundering resulting from these calls. Welcomebe pleased to david frankel. Telecommunications expert who has worked in highperformance technologies since 1974. Implemented the trace back effort. Assisting Law Enforcement tracking down the origin of the illegal call. Thank you for joining us. Good morning. Members of the community for inviting me to be here today. I am very honored. Grandmother was a victim of elder fraud. There are no words to express what she meant to me and my family and how much we loved and adored her. Of faith and love cannot be confined to words and she will forever be missed. My grandmother was targeted and pursued nonstop by a ring of fraudsters. These individuals used creative and cunning tactics to gain her trust. They told her she had won a large cash prize and all she needed to do was pay the taxes and fees. I first realized she was a victim by the last conversation i ever had with her. Reliving that phone call is very painful. Needed 6,000she wired as soon as possible. Her forceful tone and desperation was upsetting. I could hear the panic in her voice. She was very afraid. This phone call set off many red flags. Everyone grew extremely concerned about her situation. We do not know of a single time in her entire life where she ever borrowed money from an individual. He hader informed me wired her 8,000 the week prior. He assured me he was trying to find out what was happening. He mentioned his fears someone was scamming her. Because she was so desperate and her the 6,000t she wanted. Sadly, she died less than a week later. It pains me to talk about my grandmothers horrific death. She chose to take her own life. It is extremely hard to imagine a loved one committing suicide. She did. Because these individuals prayed in her and in her good heart. Lastolden years and the chapter of her life was taken from her. It is clear to us the circumstances that led to her death were caused by these criminals. We found out just how much the criminals had taken from her. We found hidden in a closet several bags full of wire receipts where she had been sending large sums of money overseas. My family visited these services to talk to the clerks and discovered they had warned her this was not legitimate. They believed it was a scam. Money, buted to wire used a different location. We also discovered not only did they drain her of the money it took her a lifetime to save, she had taken out a reverse mortgage on her home and she cashed out all of her Life Insurance. My grandmother died with 69 in her bank account. In the summer of 2016, we were notified the individuals who committed this crime against her were caught. One of them had been extradited from costa rica and was already in the sentencing phase. I traveled from houston to charlotte, North Carolina to read my victim impact statement and finally faced one of the individuals who did this. Because of that statement, i was invited to speak with former attorney general Jeff Sessions and february, 2018, when he announced the older fraud suite. Raud i have been contacted by Many Americans facing the same scheme. I know Family Friends who have been impacted by the grandparent scam and the medical Debt Collection scam. On behalf of my grandmother marjorie, i want to thank the committee for hearing and exploring the growing and difficult problem of fraud against the elderly. We live in a fastpaced, youth Oriented Society and elder issues are not high on the social agenda but you have the ability to show great leadership by shining a light on this topic. Again, i think you for your passion. Recognizing as a government, as a society and individuals, we must increase our efforts to ensure seniors are protected from the criminals that prey on them. Outseniors deserve to live their lives with dignity and honor. Thank you very much for your moving testimony. And your willingness to come forward and share such a painful, horrible story. Toause you have been willing do that, i am sure you have alerted so many around this nation. Tot is a tremendous way honor the memory of your grandmother. I thank you for your courage in speaking out public. I am so sorry for what you and your family have endured. Thank you for being here. Sheriff sanders. Members of the committee. Sheriff inthe pennsylvania. Opportunity tohe testify about my offices experiences with scammers everett Delaware County Sheriffs Office experiences occasional reports from citizens about receiving a scam or robo calls from unknown persons. They vary, but the most common form is the caller claims the potential victim has missed jury duty. There is a warrant for their arrest. The caller will identify themselves as a member of the Sheriffs Office, typically using a fake name. In one incident, the color used the name of an actual deputy, going so far as to use the deputies voicemail greeting as their own. If the Sheriffs Office is able to get a number for a potential victim, and typically results in no answer. Someone will answer but once they realize it is from the sheriffss office, and we are asking legitimate questions, they typically terminate the call. Another aspect is the colors often use spoofing technology. This is when they are able to program the main number to show on the potential victims caller id. Find outften how we about the calls. The potential victim, people who realize something was amiss. We will tell them this is a scam. The Sheriffs Office does not call people we have business with. It is either done through u. S. Byl or in personal service the deputy. In addition, under no circumstances will we ever ask for information over the phone for money or any other valuable avoid obligation or risk. In two separate incidents, professionals were targeted. Convince them they were subject to arrest for missing jury duty. In one case, they were get spendo get the victim to 3000 and to purchase gift cards and mail them all. The husband grew suspicious and looked at the county website and saw the scam alert, but it was too late. Ruse was used. They advised one of the victims that he was subject to arrest for not responding to a grand jury subpoena. Enoughd him convinced they had him on the phone for an way and coaxed him all the to a bank in pennsylvania. Roximately 10 miles and they instructed him to withdraw 6,000. They advised him he should stay on the phone, not answer or communicate with anyone. Suspicious and tried to call repeatedly. That call and information, she was able to provide, we were able to contact the bank and intercept the victim as he was parking his vehicle. Ofe the victim thousands dollars. The most recent case, the victim was approached by the chief deputy, who was in plain clothes. When he first approached, the man was skeptical, saying he had the Sheriffs Office on the phone. Once the victim realized what had just happened, he explained he was chiefly concerned about his medical license. If he were to be arrested, his license would be jeopardized. As well as his position as a medical director. Losing sight of the fact that this elaborate this was an elaborate ruse. On theem keeping him phone, running him across the county and telling him not to speak to anyone, this was just a ruse. He was intercepted a block from the courthouse. Was going to the bank. To withdraw the money. He likely would have been directed to go to a federally authorized retailer to purchase money or gift cards, which he would be instructed to give all pertinent information over the phone. In some cases, to mail them. Scabbards d the scammers were able to gather potential information beforehand. Likely from the web. This enhanced their ability to convince the victim that because they know much about them, the call was legitimate. This gets the victim off balance. With the threat of potential arrest and the offer of the out by paying a fine, they opt for avoid arrest. Frequent targets are Older Persons who typically have Great Respect for authority and tend to be much more trusting. These type of scams circulate through the state. We will ce males from other Sheriffs Offices. We push out notifications to warn the. Law enforcement can do little to investigate these crimes. Keeping the public aware to avoid victimization is the best we can do. Learn senatorto casey introduced legislation that would train bank towers about how to spot tellers about how to spot a potential victim. They will serve as another line of defense, protecting our family, friends, and neighbors. More must be done by the Telecommunications Industry to stop these colors from getting through in the first place. Thank you for the opportunity to speak before the committee today. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. Thank you for being with us. Good morning. Ofking member and members the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to testify in efforts to combat fraud. Inspector in charge of the Postal Service criminal investigations group. Inas the assistant inspector charge of our miami field office. I worked with authorities in jamaica to investigate lottery fraud. My lawenforcement career with the immigration and naturalization service, later, the secret service. Consumers are bombarded by pitches and promotions. I have seen how persuasive language and hightech deception are used to convince people to part with their money. Imagine your phone ringing. Cashust pay a little called the insurance pp read once an individual has been persuaded to pay, the operator takes the relationship to the next level, asking for more money. Thee emotionally isolating individual. Most of the victims we know were not aware call spoofing technology existed. By their own admission, they overcame their doubts and bought into the claims because of the information displayed on their caller ids. Spoofed food numbers were instrumental leading victims to believe the call was for real. By case was investigated postal inspectors in North Carolina. Prosecuted by the department of justice fraud section. Offshore call section. They posed as representatives of the security and Exchange Commission and federal trade commission. They contacted consumers in the u. S. Claiming they had won a prize. They took steps to conceal their identity. Making it appear the calls they made came from washington, d. C. , which lent weight to the scam. Other technologies also played a part. One victim testified she was warned to keep pain as the the victim where lived. Payments to costa rica were sent via Wire Transfer. Smith and griffin also hired collect cash. Nine defendants were charged. Eight worked in the call center. Identifiedectors 1800 people who collectively lost more than 10 million, just in connection with this case. Hersuch person was grandmother. Several defendants were extradited to the u. S. Three remain fugitives. Smith and griffin were convicted. In april of this year, sentenced to more than 20 years in federal prison. She testified on behalf of her grandmother. The service is aggressively investigating fraud. Even when the mail is not the first point of contact. We participate in the strike force. Take stepsissue to safeguard their finances including how to Contact Service providers. Unwanted calls. I want to thank the committee for holding this hearing. Committees effort to address the issue of spoof technologies that facilitate scammers an ive unfair advantage. Thank you. Your nk you so much for testimony and for the great work that youre doing. Frankelle, thank you for being here. Collinsmorning, senator and Ranking Member casey and members of the special committee. Name is david frankel, im a provider of specialized telecommunications applications. Honored to be here. I note this week were celebrating 50 years since some americans came together and put our own on the moon. I would like to believe that two enerations later we can collectively across the industry and enforcement and regulation get our phone network back from scammers that have taken it hostage. In my remarks today i want to perspective on Illegal Robocalls including how they work technically, commercially why they persist. Ill attempt to convince that you this problem can be addressed through a cooperative effort to stop robocalls closer to their source. I prepared a diagram that the path tan by most robocalls. Before i start, i want to make a critical point clear. There is no way to send a call robo or otherwise, to a u. S. Based consumer telephone except by arrangement with a originating provider here in the United States. In other words, robocallers located outside the united inside for that matter, must buy whats called from anmination service originating provider to get their robocalls on to our u. S. Network. Typically pass through multiple subsequent providers before reaching the telecom that directly serve consumers. These originating providers to invest in any equipment. Standard Computing Resources can be used to process these calls those resources can easily be rented in the cloud. Over o this with voice internet protocol, referred to voip providers. Their approach is to place an enormous number of calls through voip providers in the hope of finding a handful of victims. Snags just hahn dollars from each of 50 victims day he could collect a hundred dollars a month. Hell need to hire a few humans to close each deal but the magic robo calling is that most of the work making millions of very cheap calls in search of done by victims is computer. Even after paying his staff and hose providers, our example robocaller could be clearing 70,000 a grand each month. He select subset of voip providers that enable the robocallers are generally small operations with low overhead. A monthly basis a voip provider in this country serving and placingocallers a hundred million robocalls on o the u. S. Network could earn 50 to a hundred thousand dollars in profit. Operators could account for three billion robocalls each month. The best place to stop this is with those providers, where the traffic is most concentrated, as the llegal calls move through the network, they disperse and are commingled with other calls more difficult. We should know the source of each call from its caller i. D. , immediately tous the problem of spoofing. Illegal robocallers and scammers go out of their way to choose a voip provider that allows them and loose with caller i. D. Ultimately, the new protocol are implementing will help make it clear whether a caller i. D. Is authentic but wait for that protocol the Telecom Industry today has a rocess called trace back to identify the source of a given call. Providers have records of each their networks, working cooperatively each provider starting with the call r that serves the consumer at the bottom of my diagram, searches its records identifies the next provider in the chain upward that pass the call to it until the the der who allowed robocalls on to the network in the first place, is reached. Traceback used to be entirely manual and required subpoenas to each provider taking weeks to months. Process has been automated and can be completed within days or even hours. Have to trace back billions or millions of calls. Can get ssful example us to the source. By tracing back selected call robocall rom illegal campaigns, the providers that allowed those calls on to the. S. Network can be identified and notified to take steps to stop the calls. Step in where providers refuse to mitigate the calls. Must be prudent about who gets what kind of access to the u. S. Telephone network. It makes no sense for a robocaller in india, identified gmail address to be placing huge numbers of calls that look like they are all over the om usa. Voip providers within our own that allow that to appen are the best choke point to stop the Illegal Robocalls. We must engage those providers to be part of the solution contributing to the problem. Questions. Our thank you very much, mr. Frankel. m going to start with you, because i feel strongly that creativity ofmous these ruthless criminals, that technological solution thats closer to the source. I have been trying to sort it ut and thats why your estimony is so helpful, who whose responsibility is it to identify these bogus robocalls . Ou talk about they are small operators but they choose a voip provider that allows them in, whose responsibility is it, someone making a lot allowing these . Alls into the system making the scammers are illions of dollars as your information shows. Thanks for the question. Indeed these small voip providers that are allowing to make their calls. In the universe of communications providers, and many, many hundreds, a few thousand of them perhaps in country, most of them are businesses, and they are providing various kinds of services, to consumers, to other businesses, that all have legitimate needs to use the network. E there are a small number of voip cater to the kind of traffic that is associated with robo calling, and there are Illegal Robocalls and there are legal robocalls so we talk about reminders and School Closings and things like that, which involve blasting out a lot of calls periodically and hose are legitimate and providers that serve them but those same providers or providers holding themselves out to serve that kind of need are potentialhat are also conduits for these illegal calls. And those are the ones that, where we need to have our focus upon ey need to be called to be more diligent about to grant access, that llows the massive calling and the spoofing that we see in the domain. Robocall thank you. Helpful. Ry let me just ask one other question. Technological barrier difficult to actors . Y these bad another great question. You that it is challenging to know whats a bad call. And whats a hats especially true because telecommunication providers generally dont have access to of the telephone call. Thats private and technologically, they are not being said hat is when a call is placed. So they dont know whether omebody is saying your prescription is ready or youve giant sweepstake. But, there are other haracteristics that the Telecommunications Providers do have access to, that can make it more apparent and at least raise suspicions. For example, when a customer is overseas, or even when they country, and they are making massive numbers of a ls, and each one is from different number, caller i. D. Shows a different number, thats suspicious. Why would that be the case . Who would legitimately be doing that . School im going to use the same number for every call i place. F im the pharmacy, ill have perhaps a group of my pharmacy numbers in my library, but i using other random numbers and thousands, millions of them from all over the country. So there are those clues. The he provider has technology to screen what number their customers are providing as i. D. , when the call is placed. There e absolutely are absolutely Technology Approaches and solution that is to be applied if you choose apply them, and youll note, thousands of voip providers or providers of telecommunication services. Robocalls dont originate from the vast majority of them. Very riginate through a small set of them. So we have an existence proof they can be prevented. Thank you very much. Casey. R thanks very much, sheriff sanders, ill start with you. Recently put an ad in the ocal paper that we wanted to thank you for because you were providing a kind of Public Education campaign about this issue. And i have no doubt that that arning that you put in the paper prevented others from crime. G victim to this i guess the question i have for you is, what did you learn from one, anderience, number number two, how would you recommend to other Law Enforcement, especially local Law Enforcement officials, in order to prevent this being crime from perpetrated . Could i ask you to turn on please. C, when other agencies become think f phone scams, i they should also make it known to the public. Think that we should participate more in Community Going into terms of senior residences, and speaking about phone scams and making people aware. A joint effort that say here, ld, as we make a concerted effort to vulnerable ost portion of our population. Believe that the danger in not doing so makes the job of law dangerous, more because if people are paranoid authority and legitimate and cant tell the difference, our deputies, our on the street, can be exposed to additional Deutsche Bank whenever they knock on the and the the citizen is exposure to legitimate authority and overquestioning on both sides. There may be a legitimate reason. He might have a warrant. And deem the person on the other side of the door as being enough to break. Hes just a senior, thats become so questioning because been exposed to a phone scam. That this is contagious and it can spill into areas of Law Enforcement and make it more dangerous for more ficers and also dangerous for the public. One thing you mentioned as we earlier today in its a potential and doubt. When Law Enforcement approaches citizen, they may have doubts bout that Law Enforcement official or about the institution they represent of use of the proliferation this fraud, huh . Yes. And youve run into that directly, i guess in some way or another. Well, before becoming sheriff, which is more hands on, i e than was a deputy for 23 years. When you knock on the door, and you show your identification someone answers, if they are suspicious of that, thats a situation that could escalate. Stem from paranoia that with phone scams. Fact l, we appreciate the that you brought reallife experience to this, not just rom a distance, but from what you and your deputies have had to encounter. Highlighted y also a situation where your deputies that o a bank to stop resident from actually completing the transaction, been, would have have cost him thousands of dollars and were grateful for that. A bill, as i d entioned, to help educate basically three groups of folks. At tellers and others Financial Institutions, individuals who work at wire the fer companies, and third is those who work in the establishment. Tell us the about how that might anything else and that you hope we could do by way f a policy change or legislation . I just, i consider all of things that were talking about connected. Here today, i think its multiprong, proactive effort to educate our seniors. I think what were talking about be part of our conversation, wherever were at, worship, ses of community centers, every level of government, when they have form where the public can speak. They can inform the public. Were doing now. State, local. From all corners. To iprong and concerted, alert our seniors. That. Need us to do and we also know that triggered by a senior that may have early on dementia or some ailment thats more prevalent among our seniors. We have to be there for them. Sheriff. S, thank you, senator braun. Chair. Nk you, madam normally when were talking about Something Like this we dont have something as simple point. Oke when you mention that, that really kind of converges on, you what the solution is to the problem. Here. Ot several questions and this is directed at mr. Frankelle, frankel, if you can give me some answers. How long has technology been around that made it easy . Since land n around lines or thank you, senator. Knowledge, i mean, my own personal experience, going back the phone network has scams for uit for various kinds. There was a ing scam against phone companies that scammers used to iraqi ts companies. From phone but the recent focus on elderly, has been kind of along technology thats present to do it. Thats correct. Phone calls have gotten cheaper, when f you will remember we use to pay 25 cents to call across the country per minute included in just your cell phone plan. So Technological Progress has way,ht the cost of calling way down. As made mass calling available more readily to more people including more scammers. How many voip providers roughly are out there . You said, basically a small kind of specializes in the scam. Be clear, that there are a number of voip are ders and many of them legitimate. Roughly how many would that be . Think there are probably a few hundred business that is use voip at the core of their business. Maybe a thousand even, and i that there are a few dozen that are positioned to ave their platforms used for illegal that seemingly would make it easier would you think so. To remedy this. I look at it kind of similar to crisis, where now we know that distributors, you data, saw all the something was askew, just didnt looks like, you it , its an issue where shouldnt be that difficult to flush this out. Would be, is any third party taken an interest in after these g couple of dozen scammers, in the need help, en you you generally have someone there hats going to help out the victim, thats made this, you know, a mission . To nybody out there trying help the elderly thats getting outside of the families . Well, i dont know that i can speak to that. I can tell you that within the industry, i ations and morere seeing more and more support for identifying nd highlighting and dealing with these voip providers that are the conduits. I think that would be wise telecommunications middleman cause the distributing drugs are all getting sued in some form or another. Think its a great analogy that you brought up. Or ave there been any civil criminal cases filed against the dy within telecommunications circuit, specifically the dozen or so voips . One of the things thats surprised me is that when the regulators have gone after the robocallers, they go after what they call the callers. Scammers, and, in fact, if theread the indictments and other notices, they dont name the voip providers are that enabled that to happen. Shift. re seeing a i just this week have been talking to enforcement town, and s in this hey do have license revocation authority. Hey do have injunctive authority. Im hoping that we start to see that happen. Ill finish with. Its like many of the things ive been involved with here in a short time. The Underlying Industries have the knowledge, put up with it, gets to a ommittee hearing before anything gets done. Would say, like ive admonished the Healthcare Industry when it comes to fixing tself in general, Telecommunications Industry and voip ought to be concerned, and surprising to me that they havent taken to it task already. Its disappointing. Concerned, and i think were rallying the troops. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Senator sinema. Thank you, chairman collins, Ranking Member cassie and all of our witnesses for being here today. The number one Consumer Complaint that the Arizona Attorney general receives and more than 550 have been ocalls placed to arizonians in just the 2019. Six months of but robocalls are more than just while not every call is a scam we must go after he criminals that use robocals to harass seniors. Utility as a collector. In arizona, where temperatures an easily top 110 degrees, thats a threat to a Seniors Health and wellbeing and some fear. Out of i also heard from maggie, who is here today, whose elderly tucson, arizona, were robbed of their life savings in a sweepstakes scam. Maggies father is a 20year veteran of the United States air force. Alzheimers, and hes lost much of what his family saved from his military pension. Their story is horrifying, but all too common. Worked with y i chairman collins to pass the senior safe act into law last financial empowers institutions to identify and stop financial exploitation families like maggies lose everything. Chairman to join collins to introduce antispoofing enalties, it hasnt changed since they first became law in 2010. Our bill also helps enforcement extending the statute of limitations for these violations from two years to three years. There have been increasing reports of Hospital Systems getting inundated with thousands robocalls a day which jams their phone systems and puts lives in danger. From a doctor in who is required to have her cell phone with her at all times. Every minute that wasted on an audio recording is taken away from a medical emergency. What can businesses or organizations, especially those serve vulnerable populations do to combat these extent do you at believe thats types of scams that target hospitals or tend to be from Law Enforcement and i. R. S. Impact Public Health and safety . Thanks for the question. I think whether its a hospital agency, thesether are all damaging, and the are indiscriminate target. Hey choose to its a phishing expedition for about what the most lucrative scam is and if it targeting o be hospitals then thats what they will do. It absolutely impacts the that, tions, and i think recipient of those calls, their ability to mitigate is, its too far down the line to ask them to try to do that. We can make them cautious. Absolutely have to educate them but we have to go back to i root cause, and, in fact, will tell you that i have spoken with a voip provider in who admitted to me allowing four million calls a day on to our network from a customer of his india, where all of those calls are spoofed. To indian caller is claiming be calling from the United States and hes allowing this hes livid with me for going hime hes not to cooperate with me further, and that if i want to now i will chase down authorities who can do that. There is no excuse for that. My second question is also for you, adam is an assistant engineering at Arizona State university. Experts like adam has called work a National Effort to build a detailed map of the robo call ecosystem. They raised concerns about trace back not being a silver bullet. Do you think there will still be gaps in how we protect both from robo calls and other specific oldernges that depend on Telecommunication Systems . Everdo not believe we will get this problem down to zero. The scammers are very clever. We will need to have programs and systems in place that react to how they react with what we do. It is a moving target and we need to plan forhat. There arei think absolutely things we can do that will reduce and limit this. With respect to your question about rural communities, certainly with respect to shake and stir, Call Authentication technology, that is new technology and relies on new networks to work. Traditionally, we know from the rural providers that they tend to be the last to upgrade their networks. Their ability to take advantage of that new technology and offer that new technology to their customers is some long way, years away. These illegal robo calls do not come into our network through rural carriers. Way come into the network upstream. If we stop them there, we will stop them for everybody. It will not be able to reach urban dwellers or they will be limited in their ability to reach rural customers as well. Thank you, i really appreciate you having this really important hearing today. It is impacting so many of our constituents around the country. I want to point out maggie dickens, who is here today, and her story of her parents that were robbed of nearly 750,000 because of these scams. Of thiso share more story. I think it is important. The individuals who stole from her not only convinced her to wire the money but trained her parents, they prepared scripts for them to read at Banking Institutions to legitimize the need. They impersonated her parents over the phone to the Life Insurance company, allowing them to cash in her parents Life Insurance policy. When the criminals didnt get answers fast enough, they sent taxicabs to deliver messages and trying get my parents into the cab. The individuals instructed my mother to open multiple credit cards and buy large number of gift cards or retail stores. They are both elderly and your father is at the beginning stage of alzheimers when this happened. He is a 20 Year Air Force veteran. You think about how many people were touched just by how many people they interacted with. It starts with the robo call but there are so many other people on the front line of identifying some not right is happening. Nobody acted. We had a lot of great discussion what more can be done . We have to stop the robo calls in the first place. There were so many indications that they were about to be robbed. What more can be done . What have you seen in your experience to address the front line of all these other people touched in the midst of this scam. Your story is similar but it is happening everywhere, what else can we do . The typical answer would be more police. That is not the answer here. The answer is what we are doing now. Requiring the laws that are proposed by senator casey so the technological industry has some constraints. Expectations that it has to live up to. It is everything. It is family. It is friends looking out for elderly friends and making them aware of what we are aware of. Make thisere needs to part of the daily routine dialogue when we come in contact with a senior. They are coming at us in a technological way. Our response h to be in a human way. You said veterans are more likely to be scam. Maggies dad was a veteran, can you elaborate more on this. As a veteran myself, this is deeply disturbing. They will look on two victims that will provide a benefit to them. It entices the scammers to obtain access to the information. Piece. Weis a great have to educate our veterans and their families the same way we have to educate the elderly. We have to educate the community and families to identity when one of our family members, elderly or veteran is being targeted. Another asset we have to look onto is veterans utilize emotion. They know the camaraderie within theyran Community Tell them they are veterans as well. They come into conversations steaming up conversations where they will help other veterans creating charity. That is how they entice veterans. There is a special place in hell for those preying upon those who served and sacrificed for our country. We need to go after these people. It starts with the phone call. I have a neighbor in her 60s. She is pretty technologically savvy and is all of a sudden getting nonstop calls. The technology has got to be there to stop it. She has gone to the provider and they say you have to upgrade your phone if we will try something. She doesnt have the ability to upgrade. What else can we do . I hate to sound like a broken record but by the time the call gets to your neighbor and to her ofvider, it is lost in a sea millions of other calls, many of which are legitimate. Identifying it is very difficult for her provider. Calls needs of the to move upstream where the point of the constant ration of billion of illegal calls coming into our network. That is the provider who has the ability to identity i and stop the calls. Unlike the rest of the Telecommunications Community that is rallying and livid about these calls, these guys are just asleep at the switch and letting it happen. The guy at the store says i just ignore them. You cant ignore hundreds of calls every day. Thank you all for your testimony. Thank you very much for describing maggies story as well. Senator jones. Thank you chairman collins for all of your leadership on this issue. It is so important as someone who has elderly parents, one of them still lives by her telephone. I want to highlight something. Of the problems i see everybody has talked about it. When elderly folks get calls from someone who appears to be a legitimate Law Enforcement can talk whatever, you to them all day long. If the sheriff calls, you will take that call. Constituent had a call us to tell us they had gotten a call from senator jones office checking up on Social Security benefits and they have to verify information about Social Security number. Because we checked at my office would lose their benefits if we did not get their number. That senior wasnt smart enough to call our office. We can talk about education a lot. I talk to my mom all the time. Where are our seniors getting most of their information so the education can be there. There are not many watching cspan today. There are not many out there my mom cant see good. You cane i think answer this. Folks, are educating where are they getting their information . It is a different generation, they are not looking at phones or ipads. Where are they getting information . I believe one place that seniorse informing our is places of worship. Many of our seniors attend regularly. Many leaders and faithbased organizations should make this Information Available to our seniors. Where is she getting her information . I would say Doctors Office would be a good place. Like he said, in church. Mailers. Psas or other they get a lot of mail. Orings that are easy f them to understand and read would help. Doctors offices, places of worship are good places. Companies help . Telleport a scam, can we fcc to do some Public Service announcements, just not only on the nightly news . Would that help . All of the above. Jumps way ahead, quickly. My mothers generation and maybe mine, they are not as technologically savy. Vy. My children will know about this a lot better. What we have to do to stay ahead of the game . What are we looking at in five years or 10 years down the road . So folks who are 50 years old now who are pretty technologically savvy and when they get a call saying they will be arrested because of a parking ticket, they know it is a scam. What is the next big thing . Sometimes i say we need to think like a scammer or robo caller. The stories we have heard, scammers are employing a broader technologies. F we have seen scams that originate in email. That is an ongoing threat. My prediction is they will become more targeted, there will be more social engineering. We have so much information out on the internet that it is very easy for a scammer to go and research all of the details. Old you admitted how are and who your parents are and so on. They can find that information pretty quickly. It has been out there for a long time anyway. It is becoming more available and more detail. Ed. Scammers will become more resourceful in using it to establish credibility and more damaging scams in a more targeted way. I also think it will move to businesses. There are businesses that have been built out of hundreds of thousands of dollars in millions through Wire Transfer scams where people impersonate the cfo or controller. They can do that credibly because they have gathered a lot of information. They use the telephone as an entry point. Thank you very much. Thank you for holding this hearing on such an important topic. Next to all of you for being here to discuss an issue that unfortunately affects all of us. I served as the attorney general of my state. I can tell you this was the top Consumer Complaint to my office, by far. Just last year, we had nearly 50,000 complaints in the state of missouri. Of those came from residents who were signed up on the states no call list. You could imagine their incredible frustration to understand why in the world they were still getting calls. I joined the Multistate Coalition to seek ways to stop and reduce robo calls and fraudulent schemes. They are outrageous violations of privacy. Americans ared harmed. I was proud to sponsor the traced act;. Make aiboth of these real difference. I want to come back to the topic about rural communities. Use the rural carriers Time Division tdm Networks Rather than voice ip technology. They right to think that Authentication Technology can be used . In its present form, that is correct. Can you give us a brief description of why those are compatible . Why is that a problem . You shouldnt have to care about it. The industry should care for you. Explanation that tdm Technology Dates back to the late 1970s. It is the same reason you cant run modern programs on a 20yearold computer. Work inocols do not that old technology. It is not good enough to carry all of the signatures and encryption data that is associated with the latest stir shaken. What are some of the other ways we can protect rural residents and others who use carriers that rely on tdm networks . You mention stopping these calls up network. What are some solutions for folks who use these networks that we could be pursuing . I believe stopping it up network where the calls enter our u. S. Telecom system, that is the right place to stop them. That is not dependent on all of the technology now as the theomer serving consumer, that is dependent up higher in the system where we have a small nubmer of providers, through which the bulk of these calls come. The provider should be demanding of the rest of the industry up stream. Saying dont send us this garbage. We will require you and the people upstream needs to be responsible and diligent and do whatever it takes to stop those calls. Are there policy steps we can take, regulatory or otherwise . Incentives we can put in place to help stop these . I think there are certainly encouragements you provide. I also hear concern from the industry. We are a very litigious society. Providers are concerned will we get in antitrust trouble if we all agreed at the customer serving level that we wont accept this garbage from a fire . Will somebody accuse us of colluding . I think that is ridiculous and you are smiling. I hear that. Be veryy, we need to careful what steps we take. We dont want to get in that kind of trouble. Few, i called them and engaged with them email and telephone saying please can you stop . What i got back from two of them was threats that they were going fraud andfor harassment. Putting garbage calls on the Network Every day will tell me that i am acting fraudulently and harassing them . Incredible, thank you madam chair. That is absolutely outrageous. Senator blumenthal. Thank you all for being here today. Thank you for having this hearing. If this is the fifth hearing on robo calls since i have been in the United States senate, it is 50th. Bly the 100 if this problem has been endemic as a consumer challenge for years and years. The technology is there to stop these calls. I dont see anyone disagree. It is there. Measurentroduced a called the robocop act which would require Telecom Companies to verify caller id and provide here the important part provide free robo Call Blocking technology to consumers. And thetaken action Commerce Committee to approve measures called the traced act. It still fails to require this technology which is there and has been there for years. To be provided to consumers. Here who opposes the robocop act . Or to put it more positively, would all of you support the existingo provide calls . Ogy to block robo there is criminal shooter in aboutidst, we are talking commercial robo calls done to harass and exploit seniors. It y here who opposes what everyone supported . But iont oppose the bill have to tell you that the blocking technology at the terminating end of the call, where it is about to be delivered to the consumer, is trivially defeated by robo caller. With the great scientific knowledge we have we are celebrating the apollo anniversary, if we can put a man defeat that can we kind of robo call ingenuity . That is absolutely what we have to do. You have to record highs that for every phone call that there is a point of origination and a point of termination. The caller and the called party. s provider is perpetration of these illegal calls, at the terminating end they are virtually helpless to do anything about it. Toaging the major providers provide the best blocking technology they have isnt going to work if there is somebody at the originating in that is complicit in defeating that technology. What would be necessary in terms of technology . You have to hold those originating providers accountable. You are suggesting holding them accountable, eagerly liable would be the answer . I think that would be helpful. Then that should be part of the bill. Im not a law or writer but i think we should figure out yes. How they are so abstinent, i think there are tools that exist today that we need to fully deploy to rein them in. To the extent that could be backstopped with legislation, i think we should be pursuing that. Thank you. Thank you, senator. Senator scott. You chairman collins and rating member Ranking Member for doing this. Have hada, both of us plenty of phone calls from people who have been scammed. We have a lot of Senior Citizens in our state. You. What else can we be doing to get the public the public should know. What should we be doing to get people more knowledgeable . Have compiled a series of public announcements that they are focused towards elderly. They provided confirmation. We collaborated as well with the National Center on elder abuse in order to prepare literature that will focus and speak to that senior citizen. The information they are receiving is good for them in a way they can understand. They are informed on how to avoid being targeted. Also, what to expect. Campaigns, that we do in collaboration with our federal trade commission. We do that yearly. And weo the post Office Provide talks to customers. That have theerks interaction and they know their customers. They speak to them as well. Education is key. Responsibility. We need to go to the churches, doctors, medical facilities. We need to have social workers aware. Law enforcement has to be a part of it. Of seniors intage florida do you think are aware of all of the scams . I do not have that information. I would like to provide it to you at a later time. Are people getting more knowledgeable about it . I believe they are. The way they are getting more knowledgeable on it is we are educating the family as well. When we go visit our elder parent, we say look for the mail. They do have to have the autonomy. It is our turn to take care of them. Letting society know that it is societys responsibility, not just the elderly to take care of themselves. That has helped put the message out there. Also, legislation. We are working in collaboration , local, andtate national authorities. It has helped shine a light on this issue. What have you been able to do tot has worked in your area get seniors more knowledgeable about what is going on . Community affairs. Arena,ut to the public senior centers. We schedule with directors to appear and give advisories. We also put out Public Information articles about web scammers. Asalso ask for suggestions to what more we can do. Inviteus, if we comments, we are collectively stronger. For comments on what we could do better. First of all my heart goes out to your grandmother, what do you think has worked the best as you have watched was going on . Im not an expert. I can only speak from my grandmothers situation. I wish there were more things in place to alert her. I know so many people this has happened. I mentioned in my testimony, riends werefamily fe victims. I wish i wouldve reached out to them or, the way the criminals are reaching out to them. Scam. Ost i believe 4000 this really hurt them. Know, when ine i hear of a new scam i call my parents and tell them. I live in a rural area. Thank you very much. Thank you for bringing this very important hearing. Calls affect everyone, regardless of age. We need to bring this probably to every committee and the whole senate. It is very important. Bit of an irony because i was on the floor week. On the senate last i was waiting for an important call. I got a call and i thought it was the number. I stepped off the floor and i answered the phone. Me, my Social Security number had been the act deactivated. Im standing on the floor of the United States senate, receiving a robo call. The whole robot voice and everything. That is pretty ironic when you think about that. Me, im suffering from a summer cold. Is excuse me, one moment, im sorry. Question is that many people, especially the elderly have plans where they have to pay for every incoming call. I really apologize. Calls from constituents, it really increases their bill. Can we require Cell Phone Companies to have some kind of the ancient . So people dont have to pay for the incoming robo calls . I dont speak for the industry. I am very familiar with it. It is very difficult. As i explained, it is virtually impossible for the terminating know that this is a scam call. To block it or to not charge for it or count against a minute when. In some cases, when they do manage to block call, the good news is it doesnt go through. If they put scam likely on it and you decline, you wont get charged. There is not a mechanism, certainly not automatic and i would just tell you i would just stop talking. Thank you, we wish you Better Health soon. Are 26. 3 billion of these type calls in 2018. It feels like 5 were to me. , this last six months robot voice telling me im going to jail. I forgot who i owed money and that one. Another one saying based on my Social Security. These are voicemails they leave. Some are in a foreign language. I dont know what those are about. 106 every time i get one of these calls i put it on blocked list. Your phone forr legitimate calls anymore. Smithecause it says john does not mean it is john smith. They figured out a way to spoof your local area code. Being in the office between palm beach, miamidade, a Huge Population of elderly citizens. In addition, a huge number of elderly citizens who are not fully proficient in english. Making them even more vulnerable. Have good credit ratings. The last thing they want to do is be outside with somebody telling them unless you pay us, something bad will happen to you. Likereally seems to me something that calls for a much broader with industry participation, Public Awareness, Public Service campaign. Everybody knows you do not leave an animal in a locked car with the windows up or down. People now know you shouldnt be eating foods that the package has been tampered with. Occasions this nation has undertaken an effort about the types of dangers that lie out there. It just seems like this is something that jan elderly population, often times, the people who spot this are the caregivers. When someone falls victim, they are shamelessly associated with it. Thats why think it is so important that we have a rod Public Awareness campaign. I dont know what this year scam is, used to be i too itunes. The caregivers, children, and themselves. I think this is the kind of issue that calls for a much broader Public Awareness. Shocked at how many wellinformed individuals fall for this. I dont know if that is something any of you have had experience with. Most people know these calls are annoying. A much or how many know the risk of the scam. Education is key. Willrevent a client, it not be enticing for the scammers. Prevention is key, education as well. We brought this issue to life today. You visit your parents, grandparents, their givers. I think it is important to continue because it scammers change their tactics. It evolves with the times. It is a continuous effort. Also a lot of the people who have been victimized do not wet to come forth because speak to the victims and they come forth and say this was my last opportunity to leave something to my family. It is not a matter of the education. It is our responsibility. Education is key to prevent. All for education campaigns and i have been doing it caregivers and through places like where my parents went, continuing care facilities, those are all great places. Ca were a robo ller, down the road i will say hi im from the irs, i know you have heard our announced announcement but we have a new program and that has changed. You say that to one million people, a few of them will be compelled to believe it. You will sound so credible. It was my department that put that ad on television. It is cheaper for you now to deal with this over the phone and pay your debts via this. We can tellree that people not to leave sugar out because the answer will come. You still have to go after the ants. As of the points you made there are very few legitimate entities that have a valid reason for using different calling numbers. It makes no sense when they are outside of the country. I think that is what is worth exploring further. Thank you very much. That is the reason for you to cosponsor my bill to double the penalty. Need very clear that we an all of the above approach. We definitely need to get the technology implemented that can stop these calls and the spoofing. Which i think causes people to answer and believe those calls. We also need effective enforcement for those who have ripped off people in this country and we need the educational campaign. Role inou have played a each of those areas. I want to thank you so much for your participation today. Each of you has really made a difference. We are going to pursue this because when you look at the numbers senator rubio has said. As i outlined my opening statement, it is billions of calls coming in. I talked to a veteran in Portland Maine who testified in one of our previous hearings, he said when i saw the irs was calling me, i assumed that i must have missed a tax bill. Was the next Call Portland Police department saying we have a warrant for your arrest unless you pay up immediately, no wonder he believed that. So much a part of these scams. I want to thank the Postal Inspection Service for your enforcement and the justice department. Are muche agencies more activated than ever before. Seniors safe act which became law last year is making a difference in allowing Financial Institutions to question these transactions without worrying about violating bank secrecy or privacy laws. Is and all of the above approach. I would love to do another round of questions. Ask if you would leave with us, some copies of the literature you held up. We can help distribute that. We have a book we put out every year. That would be a welcome supplement to our educational issues. Would beertainly, we glad to. Committee members will have until friday, july 26 to submit additional questions for the record. I want to thank each of you for , the educational campaign, technology. To scamso put an end perpetuated through robo calls that are literally costing america but particularly our seniors. Billions of dollars each year. I want to thank our witnesses. In the interest of time i will submit a statement for the record. I want to thank you for the work you did today. We have a lot more work to do. At the prevention level and the chokepoint that was discussed earlier. Using every bit of technology to stop it. We are grateful you are willing to bring your personal story. That has to be difficult to do. Youre helping a lot of other. You. Thank you very much. This hearing is now adjourned. I want to thank our staff for their hard work. Thank you. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] cspans washington journal, live with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up this morning, Pacific Legal Foundation Senior attorney Jonathan Wood and defenders of wildlife senior staff attorney discuss changes to the endangered species act. Then bloomberg talks about the impact the trade war and carrots are having on farmers across the u. S. Watch cspans washington journal live at 10 00 eastern this morning. Sundayso join us for washington journal as we talk about the 50th anniversary of woodstock. Education secretary betsy devos criticized the palestinian bds movement which promotes boycotts against israel. The paneldevos, discussed how to combat antisemitism on college campuses. This is one hour and 20 minutes
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