they 70s dirt on scene cnn breaking news. >> welcome to inside politics. i'm dana bash and we start with a monumental supreme court decision on the power of the presidency the highest court in the land is just ruled that donald trump is entitled to some level of immunity from prosecution for actions he took in the final days of his presidency it could put big parts of the election subversion case against him in jeopardy and sets a critical new precedent for future commanders in chief the split 6-3 opinion was authored by chief justice john roberts, who writes in part, we conclude under our constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of presidential power requires that a former president have some immunity from criminal prosecution for official acts during his tenure. for an office. at least with respect to the president's exercise of his core constitutional powers this immunity must be absolute he also said that there are some parts of what the president does. that is less certain which we're going to get to in just a minute now, justice sotomayor wrote on behalf of the court's liberal justices, quote, with fear for our democracy, i dissent. the justices sent the case back to a lower court for a decision about what counts as an official act and what doesn't cnn's kaitlan collins and paula reid are both outside at the supreme court. kaitlan. i'm going to start with you. excuse me, paula, let me start with you, actually, because kaitlan, you're amazing, but she's got the legal degrees, so i'm going to start with her and i certainly don't tell me what you think based on the way that this decision was written, the majority by the chief justice about whether or not the district court really is going to be able to decide we know about the timing, but maybe even ever about these critical questions about the former president's conduct leading up to and on january 6, we'll dana, they're going to have to try because the supreme court has sending this right back down to the district court. they've given a judge, tanya chutkan, a test that she now has to apply to apply to this indictment. they were saying the former presidents have absolute immunity for official acts related to their core constitutional power. and speaking with sources familiar with the trump legal teams thinking they believe this is a major victory because they believe not only will any charges related to official acts be tossed out, they also think that this will cover key evidence that jack smith would need to prove what's left of his case. so this will require additional proceedings, additional briefings, likely some hearings possibly more appeals. the biggest thing from this decision today, dana is not only a test, only not just for former president trump, but for future presidents before the country related to immunity. but it also signals to us that it is unlikely and probably impossible for whatever is left of this trial to go before november. yeah, which we knew was the likely scenario, but this steals the still no question about it paula, hang on. because kaitlan, i do want to talk to you about what you're hearing from trump world. you i know have been talking to not only the former president's attorneys, but his campaign yeah. i mean, it's not the full immunity that donald trump has been claiming for months that he believes that he has, but it certainly is hard to see how they could get any more of a win out of what we are reading in the supreme court decision today. it's exactly what his attorneys is legal team and his campaign had been predicting that it was kind of split the baby and say, no, that is not as blinken immunity for everything. a president does, but it does say there is immunity for what he does. that's an official act and not for what is considered an unofficial act, but therein is where the complication lies and that is an important complication for jack smith's case here in washington, but also as paula noted, all of the cases that donald trump is still facing from georgia to florida, to the one here in washington. so trump himself is posting in all caps saying it's a big win for our constitution, for our democracy. he says he is proud to be an american with an exclamation point. but here's where it's going to be the key question, which is what this means for the case here in washington, and how quickly it can proceed, and what judge chutkan is going to do because a little little-known a little part of this that is incredibly important in this opinion is where chief justice john roberts is saying that what they did, what a president did, that is an official act that cannot be used as evidence to bolster accusations related to unofficial acts. that includes interactions with the justice department here, that would mean donald trump let's conversations to try to put geoff clark a loyalist as the acting attorney general in the final days of his administration to do his bidding to overturn the election. it says there's a presumption of immunity when it comes to his dealings with vice president pence, and that the judge here has to decide whether or not his behavior has influenced campaign on pence can be considered part of this. that is a key decision here, and that is why this is being viewed as such a big victory within the trump team. because one, it's not a black and white answer, it's complicated and two, it's going to delay this case even further. and they hope pass the election i mean, really fascinating what a day kaitlan and polo, we couldn't have done it without your expertise and your amazing reporting. thank you so much. and i've got some other great attorneys and analysts here with me at the table. cnn legal analyst carrie cordero, elliot williams, and elie honig, along with former fbi director and cnn analyst andrew mccabe and former attorney bill brennan is with us and we will get you in one second. bill. i just want to start off with the big picture here. i read one quote and i'm going to read one more from the chief justice kind of summarizing this length the his opinion and of course, there are concurring the dissents will get to in a second. under are constitutional structure of separated powers, the nature of presidential power and titles, a former president to absolute immunity from criminal prosecution for actions within his conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority. 40 and he is entitled to at least presumptive immunity from prosecution for all his official acts. there is no immunity for unofficial acts. so that sums it up now i don't want to start with you. i don't excuse me. elie, i want to start with you. i don't want to get into the specifics quite yet about the january 6 case because i want to do that in a minute. but because this is precedent setting and this is about the country going forward and how presidents can and cannot be immune talk about it with, in that big picture context. so we loved this expression. no person is above the law. and i think today confirms that we have to modify that a bit with a little footnote, except in many circumstances, the president, it's just a reality. we can no longer pretend that the president's just any other person and shouldn't be treated differently. it's not quite at the level well of the president is a king, i think that's a bit hyperbolic. but what the supreme court has done today is vastly expanded the powers of the presidency and made it extraordinarily difficult. arguably, as a practical matter, impossible to even prosecutor president for anything he does while he's in office. so this opinion in larger specs was as expected. we talked about in advance, all of us i think of set on air. it's not going to be an all the way win, all the way lost are probably going to create some tests about within or outside the scope of the official job, official acts. but the supreme court went even further here to promote and expand the powers of the presidency i would agree, and i think what they also did was leave open a series of really profound questions that are going to be quite difficult for courts at all levels to sort out. number one, what are they decide ultimately isn't official versus an unofficial act? and that will require detailed fact-finding from quarts to figure that out, number two who decides so we'll talk about the georgia case in a moment. it's a state case that relied on some official acts of the president. do you have to now file a separate federal lawsuit to sort that out? a state judge in georgia for that. so that's big. and then as we talked about in this quote, this idea of evidence of official acts cannot be used he used to establish an official act that eviscerate virtually any chance of ever holding a president and accountable every day at president does something official, a conversation with his attorney general is an official act in some way. so how do you figure that out? it just sort of a map that they leapt as well. i'm glad you brought that up because i was reading that and i thought, i'm not at a lawyer, but i think you have to use evidence in order to prosecute pretty much anything. >> all right. let's talk about the specific case that the indictment i should say that brought this all the way to the supreme court. of course, this is about january 6, and everything around it and we just kinda broke down going through the majority opinion what they said is and is not considered immune let's just look at this conversations with dod doj immune total immunity. got anything that the president talks about with the attorney general, anybody else? immunity cannot be prosecuted no matter what alleged pressure on vice president pence. so presumptive immunity remanded for review, meaning it's going to go down back down to the district court to an evaluation of the substance of the conversations to see whether or not they fall right in the scope of the day. okay. thank you. okay. so what's put that back up? alleged pressure on state electors. we know about all of this that conversations that he was having with people in all of these states, these key states that he was trying to maybe squeeze some more boats at aboard, maybe change the results again, remanded for review that's right. and it seemed the court really keyed on this factor that those allegations took place between the president and others who are outside of the outside of the scope of his staff. essentially, those are outsiders. and so therefore, it's a ball in the air to be determined by the district. >> okay. last his own conduct allegedly inciting violence. those are my words, not the words of the of the of the majority, but that's effectively what he was charged with doing. his actions that led to what happened at the capital january 6 again remanded for review again, a very fact-based reviews. >> what you would need to determine each one of those alleged acts or elements of conduct against his responsibilities. however proving that is become enormously tougher for the prosecutors now because they cannot rely on any evidence that falls within the scope of his official duties. so all of that very key evidence conversations with members of his staff, with members of his other executive branch agencies. that's out because it's covered by immunity. so the prosecutors have potentially some very high hurdles to get over here. okay. so bill brennan, thank you for your patience. i wanted to kind of set the table for our viewers because this is a what and we thought we would try to pare down what did and did not happen in this majority opinion. so if you were jack smith right now, is there any way that you can change the indictment? against former president trump to fit within the parameters of the dentition dallies in a tough position because you can really make an argument on all the open cases and even the closed case with judge john with regard to this case. >> but let's take the jack smith's case you have to read the immunity decision in context with the fisher decision that came down last week. there's four counts in that case. toba of obstruction. the fisher dealt with and to hear fraud on the u.s. and florida on the voters the fisher decision basically said, unless there's a documentary connection simply being merely present or making verbs and making statements. that's not enough. so i think it was weakened on friday with regards to those two accounts. with regard to today this blanket of immunity has spread further over the presidency. these axis now, i have to be determined on a factual basis. whether the court does that as a matter of law or what you can make an argument that the jury would have to do it if it's factual, but he's either going to have to pare down the case or i guess you could try to i don't know where the statute is dismissed and mandate that case it is in serious trouble. you could then take this argument and applied to the georgia case that if when the president called the secretary of state, he was immune, where the effects there, you could really make, you really want to stretch it. you could make an argument that part of the case tried in new york, dealt with the dali's would say hope hicks and others in the administration, were they official acts? i mean, this the more i read this case is a thick why razi opinion when i first glanced at it, it seemed like a win in favor of the former president. the more i digested it's this thing is really far-reaching and it's a, it's a landmark decision to steal the line from judge justice gorsuch, is it really is one for the ages. yeah landmark decision. you don't hear that very much. it's saved for a really key cases isn't there's no question that this opinion falls right in that stay with us because i want to turn to the dissent. carrie. and there was the sat was written by justice sotomayor. we also had from from the lamp kagan? no, no, from ketanji brown, jackson, but i wanted to start with justice sotomayor and i believe i'm going to pull up just for the control room the first justice sotomayor never in the history. so this is what she said, never in the history of our republic has a president had reason to believe that he would be immune from criminal prosecution if he used the trappings of his office to violate the criminal law moving forward, however, all former president's will be cloaked in such immunity if the occupant occupant of that office misuses official power or a personal gain the criminal law that the rest of us must abide will not provide a backstop with fear of for our democracy. i dissent. >> it's a very strong statement by justice sotomayor and it's understandable from the context of how broad the majority seems to interpret immunity in this case they, the majority doesn't just say that the former president is immune for official acts, which it makes very clear. >> it also really broadens it out and there's a part that i want to point to in the opinion where it says the immunity we've recognized extends to the outer perimeter of the president's official responsibilities, covering actions, so long as they are not manifestly or palpably beyond his authority. and so i think although the court in this case really hands it back down to the lower court in this specific case involving former president trump it is tipping the scale for the lower court to really take a very expansive view of what official acts are. so this is a ct of confusion in some way. it tosses so many things back to the lower courts. and let me just give one specific example that she was talking about sotomayor. she talks about what if the a president orders the navy seal team six to assassinate a political rival immune organizes a military coup to hold onto power. immune takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon. immune, immune, immune, immune. i'm not sure that's accurate. i mean, it's a bit high for bolick, but i think what that does is nicely underscore that we're going to have some really difficult decisions to make. it's not clear whether there would be immunity. i mean, district court judge could easily look at that scenario and say, no way i find that ordering and assassination of arrival through seal team six, that's out of the scope, so i don't necessarily agree with that extent, but she's right. we now have some very difficult problems to wrestle i think she's a lot closer to right than wrong. yes. i think that when you combine with you combine her concerns with the way they articulated this vision again and again and again, they come back to this idea that oh, this immunity is absolutely necessary, not only is it constitutionally required by separation of powers, but without it president would be chilled from taking bold and decisive action. they repeat that again and again and again. so basically what you have here is the supreme court imposing its judgment that that principle that we must have bold and decisive president's is more important than the principle that justice sotomayor is advancing, which is it's just we should have presidents who obey the law it's really, it's going to take a very long time for us to digest what this actually means don't go anywhere. >> we have former excuse me, if we're going to talk about former trump adviser steve bannon, who barely is now in prison. but before he reported and grand fashion, he hosted one last broadcast. what he had to say as next we are outside of the federal prison in danbury, connecticut. and your hosted tonight by federal prisoner number 056355 09 an unprecedented debate as only cnn could do it with a record audience around the world are kind thank three is being destroyed. >> where are the most admired country in the world for the most complete coverage through election day and beyond. followed, cnn we need your help go online, call or scan this code to support wwf's global conservation efforts. i symbolically adopting an elephant for only $12 a month. it's just $0.40 de, to 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about how his right-wing podcaster with live on with a variety of guest hosts without him there. now, what happens when steve, those behind those gates as he had has this federal prison in danbury, connecticut is firstly goes through this processing systems and he shows up. he goes through a medical metal metal detector. he's stripped strip-searched in any go mr. o. mental health evaluation, and then you're assigned your housing unit and this is where bannon is going to be for the next four months. it's a low security prison. it's not the minimum during prison, also known as a club fed, that he had hopes to go to because he has charges coming to trial in another case in new york that's hosts come in later on this summer, but again, bannon, now going through that processing, going into custody, year in federal prison in connecticut and defiant, essentially, up until the last moment although it's week in recent days, they said he was a horse hoping that supreme court, what's their home at the last minute? something that did not happen and did have some apprehension as you might expect, about becoming an inmate at federal prison data? yeah. i'm underneath you. we have one of his quotes. i'm going to be more powerful in prison than i am now. what a turn of events that sarah thank you so much for that he as zaraa mentioned, is in prison because he defied a subpoena from the january 6 committee. well, we have a former member of that committee, adam kings kinzinger, who will be here with me to react to that and more importantly, to the major support supreme court ruling, landmark supreme court ruling plus, he did endorse joe biden for president just last week, we'll talk about that as well. >> sunday dr. sanjay gupta reports on hold for the devastating effects of all time reversing something that seems so preordained. it sounds extraordinary. >> dr. sanjay gupta reports the last alzheimer's patient sunday at eight on cnn first-time no biggie we recommend to exfoliate the 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[laughs] a home router should never be a home wrecker. oo this is a good book title. new york. and this is cnn supreme court justice ketanji brown jackson is slamming her colleagues decision on presidential immunity. she writes, in part the majority's ruling in this case breaks new and dangerous ground, departing from the traditional model of individual accountability, the majority has concocted something entirely different a presidential accountability model that creates immunity, an exception from excuse me, exemption from criminal law applicable only hey, to the most powerful official in our government joining me now, a former member of the house january 6 committee, former republican congressman adam kinzinger. thank you for being here. what's your reaction? >> it's really disappointing. it's not quite as bad as it could be. there was comments about unofficial action. they didn't define it. obviously this is disappointing. i mean, look, it's a tough case when the supreme court took it up, they knew that, which is if a president in the behest of being president attacks somebody overseas or whatever there's there's gotta be some immunity for those decisions. but at the same time, if they knew this was going to be complicated, they knew it had to be remanded to the lower court. why was it one of the last cases that were put out? why didn't they dispatch this quickly? why was this at the very end? this is very frightening because all you have to see is donald trump's claim that this is a complete exoneration of what we knew happened on january 6. and let me say another thing. so the president telling the attorney general, just save the election was corrupt and leave the rest of me and the republican congressman, if the attorney general doesn't do the president can fire him to bring somebody else in and not be held accountable. is that the kind of country want to live in? and i think we don't recognize the consequences of that quite yet. >> yeah. and that's just to be clear for maybe people just tuning and what the supreme court said. pretty explicitly is yes, the president is immune from anything that you just described. you posted question, why did the supreme court wait till the end of the term? what do you think the answer is well, look, i don't know how that process internally, maybe some of the court experts do happen in terms of like what they decide when to release something. >> they probably knew how this was going down months ago. they could've out of the norm released at earlier. there were some people that thought they might actually, or they could have released at, at the beginning of when things were being released, cases were being released. i don't know except my conspiracy side of me says to delay this as long as possible, because now, judge chutkan is going to have to go internally, make a decision in terms of what to do, figure that about and apparently probably will not get to court before the election i want you to listen and our viewers to listen to what the republican leader in the senate mitch mcconnell said in february of 2021 when he was explaining why he was opposed to impeaching, then former president trump we have a criminal justice system in this country we have civil litigation and former presidents are not immune from being accountable by either one. and now they are at least with official acts yeah, exactly in this is i'm glad you played that because even kevin mccarthy at one point was saying, at least i heard him privately say it, and i think he said it publicly, like, you know, the justice system can deal with this, but donald trump is out of office let's now and that was mitch mcconnell whole reason to vote against removal because donald trump's out of office. >> and now that's in the legal system. the problem is, is it's all about power with these folks. it's not about this understanding of what the rule of law is and what is ultimately going to happen if you determine a president can be immune. i mean, honestly and he'd never do it because he's a decent man. but if joe biden decided to use seal team six to go after his political rivals, according to this case, he may be justified in doing that. at least it would have to go to the supreme court to decide if he was justified in doing that. whereas 48 hours ago, america would have largely agreed that no president could do anything like that. >> i want to ask you about the presidential race. you mentioned joe biden, you endorsed him, right before the debate. another anti-trump republican stewart stevens. he's telling democrats to stop panicking. he wrote a really interesting piece in the new york times that said in part, it is easy to be for your guy on goods nights, but it doesn't mean much. the test is on bad night's my one plea to my new friends abandoning mr. biden is simple. suck it up and fight. it's not supposed to be easy and i wanted to show that to you. i'm sure you saw it because he is used he worked for mitt romney and another republicans and now he's sort of getting a sense of the environment within the democratic party as are you what is your sense of watching the way the democrats are responding to the president's debate, performance well, let me just save this like i i don't regret my endorsement because donald trump is an existential threat to this country. i believe that i believe joe biden will when i just asked a democrats to do whatever including in the campaign for biden is necessary to defeat donald trump prosecuted the case against donald trump. i don't think that's been done very effect certainly was not done effectively on debate night. and the other thing i'll say is this. i don't know for the next week or two, they're still going to be this internal consternation in the democrats, i'll leave that to them because they're the ones that have to decide for their party. but i don't think it does any good to pretend like the debate was just a bad night it was it was really bad and it confirmed a lot of people's fears. now, now, joe biden is running. he's probably going to be the guy that stays in and does it and i will fight as hard as i can to make sure he wins election. but i think you have to realistically look at what happened. an address it from that perspective. and now go forward and prosecute the case as best you can. so i have no doubts. no regrets of being on team biden. i'm excited to do it to beat donald trump, but i just think you have to take people's concerns seriously and ultimately in a week or two when everything is settled down prosecutor, this case as hard as you can. okay. real quick because we're out of time. some never trump burrs at charlie sykes, sarah longwell, and others are apparently going to talk to the biden team and ask that they please convince him to step aside. it sounds like you don't agree with them well, look, i wasn't at that meeting. i was invited, but i had a plane that canceled the meeting is not about asking joe biden to step aside. i think this was planned weeks ago. it's just about how these folks can help out. so i think it's wrong to say they were going there to get them to step down at it. >> thank you. that's important. clarification. always good to see you. thanks. so much for being here you bet see up. stay with us more on today's pivotal ruling from the supreme court. we're going to be here with a great panel of reporters coming up this election season. cnn has you covered, no matter the question from more about the candidates? two rules in your state to cast the cnn voter handbook has your answers. visit cnn.com slash vote for yours at morgan stanley old school hard work meets ball, new thinking to help you see untapped possibilities and relentlessly work with you to make them real how many times have you tried to clean a stubborn mess with? >> no success? what you need is the all new waterproof horsepower, the new cordless and reach charge of all power scrubber that cleans faster 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constitution and democracy. >> that's how donald trump is framing today's supreme court ruling that he's entitled to some immunity from the some immunity from prosecution rather in the january 6 case, it comes on the heels of what the trump campaign sees as two other wins. joe biden's not very good debate performance and another supreme court ruling that the justice department overstepped in charging some who rioted at the capitol on january 6, with obstruction here is a great group, reporters with me, cnn's mj, lee axios is hans nichols, and cnn's kristen holmes. nice to see you. one and all. kristen what are you hearing from team trump? >> look, this is a really good week for donald trump. i'm talking about the full seven days here when it comes to the immunity, they believe that this is an absolute win, both legally and politically because it's not blinken immunity, right? that's not what they went in for. but what this does is this is likely to delay the case past november, which is really all that they wanted in the first place, the whole goal here when you look at all the legal cases, they don't believe that any of these cases are going to be brought to trial before the election, except for this potential january 6 trial that was still the one that was looming out there. judge chutkan has moved incredibly fast. there was still the potential that she wouldn't care about the politics that she would try to rush this before the election now, they don't believe that's possible and for them, that as a win. also, this gives donald trump's the leeway to not have to focus on a bunch of trials and those legal issues, but to actually focus on the campaign. what do hearing hans regardless of the details of this court case, which matter immensely, let's not sort of gloss over this just as a big picture. this does take the conversation wave from the debate and regardless of what adjective we use to describe the bait when we say it's dismal, disaster is difficult, bad, not a great night, i think is a fair way to put it it does shift the conversation back to what the biden campaign wants to talk about, which is democracy, which is where the country is headed, and what sort of presidency we can expect from donald trump's so at least in the conversation change, i agree with you, donald trump's had a pretty good couple of days but at least on the sort of changing the subject from the debate. this helps, yeah. and on that note, the biden campaign put out a statement where they said that electing donald trump based on this, what had in the keys to a dictatorship. today's ruling doesn't change the fact. so let's be very clear about what happened on january 6. donald trump's snapped after he lost the 2020 election and encouraged a mob to overthrow the results of a free and fair election. he thinks he's above the law and is willing to do anything to gain and hold onto power for himself yeah. >> i mean, this is the biden campaign making the most of the situation seizing on this new cycle, as you said, two, at least try to drive home the point again, that was supposed to be one of the major points heading into november and one the messages that they hope the president would deliver most forcefully, by the way, on the debate stage. that january 6 represents just everything that is wrong about donald trump, that he is reckless, that he is dangerous. it is not surprising to me at all that they would use this new cycle to release a statement like that. i will say i'm not saying anyone at the white house the campaign has ever said this on the record are publicly because they were so careful about not giving off the impression that they're sort of trying to politically influence anything coming out of the judicial system. but yeah, with democrats generally have been really, really happy if you know if they could have seen the president meyer in another trial heading into november, that would've made them really happy and it seems like that is increasingly remote particularly after what we saw today. yeah. i mean, what they're trying to do and it doesn't take a lot because this is very wide reaching and much more focused on presidential immunity than i think maybe many people thought saying, you need to be afraid, be very afraid. we'll see if that has any impact especially given what you talked about, which is the debate let's talk about that after a break, a bad night, bad preparation, bad staffing. that's what democrats are saying publicly, privately. they are very much as we speak still trying to assess the damage from his presidency hey performance. we'll talk about that and unprecedented debate as only cnn could do it with a record audience or wrong on the world. our country is being destroyed. where are the most admired country in the world for the most complete coverage through election date and beyond, follows cnn well, it makes ewc so special we do a really great job at sharing all of our associates to be the best 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we're seeing on the screen that you're showing right now a president who is frankly thunderstruck by just how aggressively donald trump is lying about everything. i think that president biden needs to reassure those who were paying attention by giving more and more of the sorts of the interviews and impromptu events and engagements that put him in america's living room in the first place okay. >> reporters are back now. mj, you have some new reporting yeah first of all, just on what senator coons was saying and what the president needs to potentially do differently. i just think the issue is that sure. he can have more events. you can do more interviews. i don't know that for most people that is going to be enough to wipe away the really indelible images that we saw from debate night where he just looked old and looked as though he wasn't fully there sometimes so i don't know that that is enough of a strategy to turn things around. but the reporting that we have today is that obviously we have seen house democratic lawmakers largely stay behind the president publicly. they are still saying we are behind it then he is going to continue running for reelection. he is our nominee. i think the big question is whether that is a permanent state of being or whether that is the temporary sort of where they have to be for now as they wait for more data and more research to come in, one member that i was talking to said congress is our firewall and we need to have one of the box bodies and they were saying there's agreement private agreement among the house democratic lawmakers that if they do get research in the coming days, that really strongly suggests that president biden and the debate performance is going to cost them the house. they described this as the shoot. he's not just going to lose the presidency, but he's going to lose the house data that is when the dam might break and you are likely to see lawmakers who again so far have said they are behind the president, come out and say, we can't move forward. yeah. i mean, the question about the president as one thing, the question about down-ballot, which i talked to nancy pelosi about yesterday and state of the union. that's a whole another question. she actually had an interesting answer which was, you know what? they can run effectively. they are my words, not hers. they can run against him just like they ran against me. like we'll see what happens. you also have some reporting and i'll just put the headline of your piece up. nervous donors await polls before making a call biden. so you talked about the lawmakers. you're talking about the money and they're all looking get the same thing, which is the data, which is the polling. and now we can finally settle for once in all whether that data is singular or plural, because the question is, how many poles are people going to need to see over what time span and what's the time horizon? because in the next three or four days there will be poles that will give us some indication. the question is, what are the polls in mid mid-july say, right? because if there is going to be cia move against the president united states by members of own party, whether that's top donors and it's elected, elected lawmakers, they're going want to see more than one pole and they are bracing for the worst because something you could surprise us president biden could go up in the polls. i don't suspect that will happen. and that's what everyone's to see asked me about the story. i think we're all in this right now when the point where sources are calling us for information, you story, where you like people asking you what, you know, what are you hearing? and that always tells you something about where the story is and it's a real tipping points to scramble. it's descramble, it gets to just how concerned democrats are right now yeah. i mean, honestly, yeah, i can i was thinking of several other points in my reporting career. maybe i shouldn't mention them right now because maybe that's not fair, but one of them really very much comes to mind. that's just like that. and you mentioned the surrogates. it has been amazing the way that the biden campaign, which has been criticized up and down, right and left for lots of things that they have really hunker down and spread out and put the phone calls out to every member of congress. they can to give them the talking point to make sure that they're on board. also, the other the donors to other, quote, unquote stakeholders and if somebody strays, they hear about it. >> let's absolutely right. but i think at the end of the day, even if they're all staying together, it does come down to president joe biden and his performance and what he does. and i think to mj is point talking about getting him out there and doing these various events. i would actually take it a step further. most of america doesn't watch these political rallies. they don't watch these interviews. they don't watch what either candidate is doing. most of america doesn't like by their candidate if it clearly watch this show just to be clear, yes the speeches and my point is that they did watch the debate that people saw those clips as clips rang all over social media they have a lot of work to do and it's not going to take just surrogates who are on message to get where they need to go. and our colleague, isaac dovere has some other great reporting talking about the what-if scenario. >> if joe biden does step is step aside. they're terrified by nearly every scenario going forward with biden, a kamala harris nomination, a nomination of someone else who would in that case have beaten the first black female vice president long nights of multiple ballots, spilling ideological and personal feuds on national television, even just revelations of embarrassing details about people who have never been vetted by a national campaign. and this is talking about the concept of quickly trying to find somebody else. never mind that. as i bring you in here, are friend dan balls at the washington post was reminding us of history that the last time something even came close, lyndon johnson said he wasn't running earlier in the cycle. there was a big fight at a convention in chicago. and richard nixon, the republican one. no, it would be chaos of just epic proportions. and i think it is difficult for them to even get their heads around this possibility, but i think also that is why they are digging in so hard, right now because they don't have a choice. i will say just one thing about you're talking about the campaign giving out talking points and hearing when others are being critical, some of the language that the campaign has used, like bed letters. i have privately heard from a bunch of people in the party who have said they find that language really offensive and off key right now that they think it is reasonable that people are completely freaking out and it just ends up sounding dismissive and snarky very interesting. >> okay, guys, great reporting. thank you so much. appreciate it. thank you for joining inside politics. cnn news central starts after the break july 4. >> cnn concert we performances by keith urban, ashanti, maybe wrexham, the killers, and many more four did america, there thursday, july for dead seven eastern on cnn. what will you do when the power goes out? power outages can be unpredictable and inconvenient, but with a generale home standby hi generator, your life goes on uninterrupted because you have power when you need it the most. number one, prepare for his extended power outages, don't make it so hard on yourself. have all gen. rack home standby generator, and special financing and low monthly payment options are available, call or go online now to request your free quote, power your life, which interact yeah your worst nightmare, your car broke down now you worried if it's going to cost you a fortune and repair bills and unless you already called car, she'll the 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