Transcripts For CNNW Inside 20240621

captioning brought to you by meso book.com are firm only represents mesothelioma victims and their families. if you or a loved one has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call us now today on inside politics, donald trump's massive fundraising haul. >> could it reshape the final months of the 2024 campaign? >> and why is donald trump singing a new tune about joe biden's ability to debate. plus disarm the supreme court keeps in place gun restrictions that stopped best to abusers from owning firearms. but the justices keep the country waiting on the other big case is on the dog gay, and which donald trump do you believe the former president who? talks about by american higher american now says foreign students who graduate from college shouldn't be rubber stamp for a green card but erasure in for dana bash let's go behind the headlines and inside politics more on today's major supreme in court decision in minutes. but up first, donald trump is preparing literally and seriously, you might say trump is deepen policies, sessions, and rehearsing answers including on questions about the january 6 insurrection. after months of question, joe biden's mental fitness, he's suddenly talking up. joe biden's debate game i will say he beat, he beat paul ryan, who still years ago, but he people orion pretty badly and i assume he's gonna be somebody that will be a worthy debater. >> yeah, i would say i think i don't want to underestimate him cnn's jeff zeleny has more on the historic rematch the historic rematch between joe biden and donald trump is anything but a rerun a vastly different set of issues are driving this race as the president and former president come face-to-face for the first debate of the 2024 campaign. >> four years since they shared a stage, the worst perez in america has ever had lifetime ago back when the coronavirus pandemic was raging understand if you look, i mean, i have a mask right here. i put a mask on when i think i needed this is his economy as being he shut down in the biden trump's sequel, an entirely new fight has been brewing on the campaign trail no, you could end up in world war three with this person is the worst president ever. >> and in tv ads, this election is between a convicted criminal who's only out for him no and a president who's fighting for your family that offers a window into the new issues and fresh lines of attack. a reminder of just how much the country, the world and yes, they have changed from an insurrection and all its fallout to a new fight on abortion rights in the wake of the us supreme court overturning roe versus wade to russia's invasion of ukraine and a war in the middle east to the very stark question of america's role in the world. yet the economy inflation, and immigration are still at the center of it all trump's record was at the heart of their last debates, even as he sought to deflect if he gets in, you will have a depression the likes of which you've never seen your foro. one case will go to hell and it'll be a very, very sad day for this country while those warnings didn't come to pass, biden's record is now under the microscope, complicating is effort to make it a referendum on trump. >> the fact is that everything he's saying so far it's simply a lie. i'm not here to call out his lies. everybody knows he's a liar, and america's oldest presidential candidates, or even older, trump's 78 and biden 81 with age and fitness for office. now a central issue in the race public opinion for president's can be punishing biden's favorability has fallen 11 point since 2020, with nearly six in ten americans holding an unfavorable view, perceptions of trump have changed less with more than half still seeing him in an unfavorable light. televised debates have long been a storied part of his presidential campaigns three making moments for candidates. >> here you go again. >> yet this showdown is without parallel. the nation's 45th and 46 president's still seeking to define one another in the earliest general election debate in memory and old dual being fought on new ground all right, i want to bring in some very talented reporters to share their insight. >> cnn's mj lee, political is heidi press below and maryanne levine of the washington post. nice to see you all mj starting with the a euro, you cover the white house, you're there every day. what are you hearing about? what's happening with president biden this weekend at camp david? >> yeah. you know, it's interesting, just the clip that you played of former president trump talking about how president biden is going to be a worthy debater. i just think it's such a reminder that the expectations game is really the whole game at this point. and i do think we've seen the former president and his team really lower the bar for president biden and a lot of ways, i mean, they've so leaned into this strategy of trying to paint the president as somebody who couldn't possibly stand on the debate stage for 90 minutes, can't string sentences together. it's just not all totally there. so in some ways, for president biden, as he's preparing at camp david you could have imagine that he gets on stage and does all of those things. he makes it through the 90 minutes, does have a coherent sentences that he's putting out there. and it's all there. and he clears the lowered bar. i think that the former president has said, and i just don't think it's a coincidence. that a new again, the babies are what did they the and it's funny you mentioned that in fact, role all of these leaders are at the top of their game. mentally there at the top of their game. and they dealing with somebody that's not at the top of their game, his game. and obviously he never was. >> he wandered off the g7 and europe. he the stage he looked like he didn't know where to hell he was, but he didn't know where it went if we win wisconsin now, you know, biden you know what biden would say? good, say, if we win iowa or sir, urine, wisconsin 00 so how does trump a raise months of saying the opposite, but he can't string two sentences together. >> oh, by the way, he's amazing debater. he doesn't, by the way, because they've invested so much like mj said, in this narrative, that this is joe biden's chance to have a performance, perhaps similar to the state of the union look, they've been pounding this narrative for quite some time and that was one of those moments where people said wow, he really over-performed expectations, expect potentially a similar scenario here. >> however, if he does have even the slightest hesitation or what they could call senior moment expect that to be completely blown up and fanned on social media because the truth is, a lot of the folks who are undecided or who may be under motivated voters are not going to necessarily be watching the entire debate, but they will be getting a lot of information on these mediums where these mems and these even deceptively edited videos have helped fan that narrative. and that's something that i know that the biden people are very concerned about, which is even if he does great right what's going to happen afterwards on these social media platforms? >> yeah not a bad thing. exactly. you took cover the trump campaign. there's a lot of expectation or there's hope among republicans that he can remain discipline what are you hearing about how his preparation is going? and i was going to deal with the biden is mental but to get under his skin and clearly, but by trump will have to rein it into some extent. can trump rein it in? >> i mean, i think that's the open question. i mean, i think his allies and they campaign or prepping him more in these kind of informal policy sessions with some of his allies, jd vance, marco rubio, eric schmidt have all worked with the former president. i mean, it's interesting because it feels like the trump campaign is trying to downplay the amount of preparation that they're doing and an expectation setting game themselves i think they want to go in with the argument that trump is used to these rallies. he's used to combative interviews and he doesn't need the level of preparation patient. yeah. >> then biden needs yeah, it seems like they're trying to play it both ways and that's go for it, go figure but it's interesting, we'll see if he's ready. he is not debate the primary debates will see how he does next week. this all comes, of course, as there has been a massive fundraising haul, really up on both sides, but even more so from trump in the aftermath of his fiction. he is now dwarfing, but they remember for months by trump has been struggling to keep up with biden's fundraising machine. it's not a little bit of the other way around in may, the fundraising haul, 141 million for trump compared to 85 million for biden. so mj does the biden campaign lick concerned at all about this surgeon trump fundraising? i mean, they certainly don't want to be lagging behind trump ever. >> i do think that there was a sense of expectation that once the trump trial was over and new york, that yeah, it was very much possible that momentum with pickup for them in terms of their halls. but i do think with the biden team would argue at this point, is that yes, we are working as hard as possible to raise as much money as we can. we don't want trump to catch up, but the one way in which the trump team cannot catch up is getting time back time that was wasted or was diverted to focusing on the president, the former president being in a courtroom for weeks and weeks when at the same time the biden team was really trying to lay the grounds. the foundation for having a traditional campaign in place to really hit the ground running and the general election. i think they would argue that that is something that the trump team can't compete with because part of this big fundraising haul came from billionaires. in fact 19 million michael bloomberg, the former new york city mayor to do helping out joe biden's campaign to the biden victory fund into a trump the timbaland who's a reclusive billionaire and error to a banking fortune $50 to a pro trump super pac. this has been a shift you've seen these billionaires, even more so open up their wallet. >> so trump racing took them a while in 2016. here they're getting there sooner. and the key moment seems to have been the conviction because we saw a huge influx of both individual donors and also some of these billionaire is coming off the sideline. also the widow of sheldon adamson as well, talking about putting a lot of money and its look, each slide has their billionaires, the question here we need to ask is what are the agendas and interests of those billionaires and a lot of the billionaires supporting trump are some of these hajj fund magnets oil and gas magnets. and with biden, it's mike bloomberg. it's melinda gates foundation. the key is how are they going to spend that money? because to mj is point biden has already had months that you cannot replace of creating all of these grassroots office this is across the country when we all know that advertising dollars are worth less and less in this fragmented environment. so even if the trump campaign pours a lot of this into advertising, it's hard to say that this gives him a big advantage or even brings them to parity because of all the investment that's been made already by the biden campaign and the trump campaign relying on bilinears, i just want you to look at this graphic on your screen, billionaires backing trump. this is all from 40 is someone who is at a 47 billion in net worth is jeff yass all the way down to john paulson within paltry $6 billion. >> there. i'm being sarcastic if you couldn't tell, but i significant amounts of money, these are the people backing donald trump. so i mean, he obviously is going to be well-funded heading this campaign. what are you hearing? >> yeah. i mean, i think it definitely shows the transactional nature in which trump approaches fundraising. he's made lots of promises to billionaires in these private meeting saying, for example, that he's going to roll back biden's environmental regulations and he's and i think what we're seeing is a lot of this, some of these billionaires, dr. wave from trump's shortly after the 2020 election and spoke out against his efforts to overturn the election results. but i think we're seeing obviously a shift here and that's enlarged part, i think because of their own agendas and the hopes for the 2025 to see the tax cuts reenacted in the end of 2020 25 that's what you hear oftentimes it's someone's put aside their personal differences. we'll talk about the policy and for some of these billionaires, it has to do with tax cuts. all right, next, it's a rare thing for the supreme court uphold any restrictions on who can own a gun but that's exactly what happened this morning the most anticipated moment of this election and the stakes couldn't we behind the president and the 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at is-it ted.com violent earth. >> would you be have schreiber sunday at nine on cnn? >> upheld today a major supreme court decision keeps guns out of the hands of domestic abusers. the case of the united states versus rahimi and 81 ruling the justices said that despite its recent decision striking down gun laws, there are some limits to who can own a firearm cnn's joan biskupic and former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe are here now to talk about all of this. nice to see you just a little bit more about that decision. this is what the chief justice of the supreme court john roberts said in that majority opinion, our tradition of firearm regulation allows the government to disarm individuals who present a credible threat to the physical safety of others. these precedents were not meant to suggest a law trapped in an amber, the reach of the second amendment is not limited only to those arms that were in existence at the founding. so joan, you were in the room. what do you take away? what are the implications of this? rolling? okay. >> first of all, just on the ground, this is an important ruling for people who care about domestic violence. >> and this is reinforces the federal government's ability to keep guns away from people who are subject to domestic violence restraining orders but for the larger second amendment question that we have here, the chief justice is highlighted in what you just showed, that there was a credible threat that this is a temporary measure against someone who was assessed to be dangerous in some way or a threat, a menace. and the reason he highlighted those two elements is because since 2022, when the justices expanded, second amendment gun rights, lower courts have been really torn about what kinds of gun regulations can be upheld. and to finally have a court, the supreme court, uphold any regulation is notable, but the chief really stressed the reason why, because you're this 2022 precedent gun regulations have to have a historical be part of historical tradition precedent. and the chief pointed to laws that were intended at the framing of the second amendment back in 17 91, there were intended to keep weapons out of the hands of people who could be a menace to society. but only because of that. i mean, this is the new rules are awfully restrictive and the chief was joined. he had a majority, but he was joined only in his full opinion by justice alito five other justices split off. justice clarence thomas dissented outright, but the center of the lone dissenter here wanting to strike down this law, but five other justices split off to talk about how they would interpret the tradition in history of gun regulation in america. and i would say the three key ones our justice gorsuch kavanaugh and barrett, who were originally part of that majority. two years ago, that expanded gun rights and they were talking about just how future regulations should be assessed. so there's just lots more litigation to come former law enforcement official, what do you see? >> you are the implications of this and could lead to more restrictive gatera curations i think that's probably a bridge too far, particularly in front of this court, but it definitely is a maybe a softening of the court's holding in bruen, the 2022 case, which and quite frankly, i think most folks in who are concerned about gun safety regulation walked away from ruin thinking how on earth does any gun safety restriction pass this very muddled, very historical test that the court has set up so justice roberts gives us a vision as to how they think about that today. >> the problem is it's a very confusing vision. i think we took a mass and we made it a little bit messier. now we've backed away from that hard bruen stance to some extent, but to exactly what extent who knows? >> there are a number of other prohibited years in the federal gun law that that will likely come in front of this court in the next few years. >> if there's anything you could predict, it's maybe those prohibits, those that are reliant on a specific condition mike, if you're a convicted felon or if you've renounced your citizenship those are maybe more likely to pass muster and ones that apply broadly to an entire population, like law in bruen are probably less likely to survive this historical tests. >> we're going to pick up a little bit more in a second, but there's also other news today. judge, aileen cannon, florida courtroom, is active. the judge overseeing the classified documents case being brought against donald trump is on the bench. today's business, a trump effort to get candid to declare jack smith the special counsel as invalid. cnn's evan perez joins me now. so evan, what happened inside the court today and does this challenge have any chance of succeeding? >> well, that is still remains to be seen at this point we've had about a couple of hours of arguments today from the trump attorneys and from the special counsel who are defending the appointment of jack smith. this special counsel? that donald trump, his argument the argument from his lawyers is that merrick garland exceeded his authority when he appointed jack smith as a special counsel. the argument here is that because smith came from outside the government, he's not someone who was approved by the senate that his appointment is illegal. and therefore, this indictment should completely be tossed. now, one of the arguments that we heard today was from emil bove, who is one of the former president's lawyers. and he called jack smith essentially a shadow government, which is something that judge aileen cannon push back on. she said that was a little ominous in terms of language, but the fact that we're having this hearing in the first place is a bit unusual. that defendants have made in a number of other special counsel's, notably hunter biden made a similar arguments. both two judges in california and in delaware, those went nowhere, but the judge cannon wanted to have a hearing and right now, they're hearing the court is back in session where she's allowing outside groups left-wing and right-wing groups to make arguments on this issue. these are groups that have nothing to do with this case, but she's allowing them to make those arguments for a couple of hours this afternoon is one of three hearing things that we have on tap mono for after today on monday, we're going to have arguments on the special counsel request for a gag order on the former president. he's been making very, very incendiary remarks now the rate or the search of mar-a-lago back in 2022. and he's also asking for some of the evidence that was seized in the search of mar-a-lago for that to be tossed. so we have a couple more days of hearing after today my name is evan perez outside that florida courthouse. >> thanks for that. and back at the table, joan biskupic, it andrew mccabe. so andy, what do you make of the way that judge cannon has handled this case? there's that reporting over the night for the new york times about judges who had urged her to step aside from this case. she said no, ever since then, she has really agreed to a number of trump efforts to delay this, including by this granting this hearing to invalidate jack smith. >> yeah this this hearing this motion is a perfect example of the chaos at this judge has allowed the prosecution to fall into she gives a not just time and attention to quite frankly, ridiculous, outlandish legal arguments. but now we have a multiple day hearing featuring uninterested parties, people who are not a part of this prosecution are coming in and spending hours arguing. and let's remember that the underlying motion has almost no chance of surviving scrutiny even if she grants the motion here at the trial court level, it will most certainly be appealed by the government and likely it'll go there their way. it's, it's hard to explain whether it's simply a matter of a lack of confidence, lack of experience, lack of competence, but the combination likely have all those things as landed this case in a, it's in reverse, it's not even in first because you think that she's doing trump's bedding air that's really hard to say. >> mine and i know that a lot of people are speculating about that. i still maintain that. we don't have any hard evidence of bias. all these other factors that i've mentioned can just as easily explain the mess that she's made of this case i'm reluctant to say that she's biased are doing these things intentionally until we have some sort of hard evidence to point to. >> i want to talk quickly back to the supreme court because you were in that room today as they were reading these arguments and there was a notable app since edo was not the samuel alito was not there for a second straight day. any idea why? yeah. there was an empty chair between the chief justice and elena kagan, right where he should have been for the second time. the justices do not have to take the bench when they release opinions, but it's unusual for justice not to be up there. and it's also quite common though for the court not to explain why and we put in questions yesterday with no answer questions today. no answer. there's no sign that he is not able to participate, that he's not somehow involved in involved in these deliberations. in fact, but it's just another sign of this court nine people appointed for life who kind of foster that mystery around them and to have one of the nine gone for two days in a row is notable, and it's especially notable. no explanation, no secret of institution and government. yeah, a question about it. all right, guys. thanks. >> an immigration shift suddenly donald trump says he wants to make it easier for some immigrants to get a green card. but does he really mean it the crown would pursue victory. tell you cost? to me exclusively on mac a widely filter. >> it's well-designed efficient. >> i appreciate that leaf filters technology keeps debris out of 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stephen miller comes to mind, among many others, what explains that, that shift i mean, i think it's i think it's caught a lot of people by surprise. i mean, it's worth noting that trump did make it very similar statement in 2015 about about greeting cards, but the comment that he made on the podcast is very, it's a contrast, not only to his anti-immigrant rhetoric that he's made very central to his campaign, but it's also so i'm a contrast to the policies and restrictive immigration policies that he applied towards legal immigration during his own administration. and i think it's telling that his campaign has quickly tried to walk back some of what he said. his campaign spokesperson shortly after trump made these comments essentially said that, well, the students would go through heavy beading and that essentially this would not apply to people who hate america and what have you. and so it's, it's definitely, it does not seem like this is going to be a common feature on the campaign trail. does, given what house campaign has reacted that in response to his most recent comments since you've mentioned the campaign, you want to say cleanup, job, cleanup job. this one, the spokes person said on a statement after trump said, president trump has outlined the most aggressive vetting process in unsc, us history to exclude all communists radical islam is hamas supporters america haters and public charges, though this would only apply to the most thoroughly vetted college graduates who would never undercut american wages or workers and perhaps that response was after there was some backlash on the right, just looking congressmen chip roy of texas, who tweeted wrong immediately after the news broke. it's trump trying to have it both ways i think part of this is that he is trying to have it both ways because what you are seeing is this unlikely bedfellow relationship with some very heavy hitting tab investors who are worried about what they see in washington with potential regulation, being potential donors to him. >> so on the one hand, he's trying to speak out of one side to these potential investors in his campaign and his future administration. and the other hand, retained some legitimacy, given that cracking down on undocumented immigrants wasn't just a proposal, it defined his entire campaign from day one in 2016 and has carried throughout it does a good point speaking to two different audiences. these one side, those tech entrepreneurs as billion hairs really who we talked about in the last segment, we're opening up their wallets and low them do want skilled immigrant labor, people who couldn't get green cards very quickly, then the hardline immigration activists, who he's been so close to over the years and have such influence with him and may potentially its future administration. yeah. i mean, it doesn't seem that mysterious. >> i think in general, there's not been a lot of subtlety from donald trump in terms of his motivations on some of the positions he has taken recently on immigration. when he suddenly came out and was trying to convince republican lawmakers to vote against and stand against the bipartisan immigration package earlier this year, he was pretty clear this is because i don't want to give joe biden a political wins. so this seems to be something else that falls generally in the basket of doing something for political reasons because it is so inconsistent with his general worldview when it comes to immigration. >> so did was he just speaking off the cuff as he tends to do it seems that it was more of an off-the-cuff remark oregon probably playing to the audience that he was speaking to on this podcast. so that, that seems to be likely what the case was. >> i don't think many of those people will ask, well, how are you going to screen for pro hamas? are communists, but it may be effective counterweight. >> all right, we shall say, all right, coming up, the man who played joe, donald trump and joe biden 2020 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affirm. >> it only represents mesothelial of victims and their families. if you or a loved one who has been diagnosed with mesothelioma, call us now vote. >> now in effect to make sure you in fact, let people know he is. we're senator russia. i'm not going to answer the question because the question, the question of justice left. >> would you base and who isn't? all right, that was one of the most memorable moments from the first 2020 presidential debate. and we're learning more about president biden's plans for debate prep now, less than a week out from next week's main event, two sources tell cnn that biden lawyer and former obama white house counsel, bob bauer, will likely stand in for donald trump in mock debates like he did in 20 in 20. and bob bauer's here with me right now. he's also the author of a new book, the unraveling reflections on politics without at the x and democracy in crisis. >> mr. brown, thanks for joining me. i really i really appreciate it. and here's the book right here so before we get into the bug, can you confirm you're playing trump this time around? >> i can't discuss anything related to the debate. >> oh boy, highly secretive. >> pardon me. it's you know, you know, how lawyers are not always very informative. no. adds a very joe well, i had to try so let's talk about it a little bit about your book. because in the 2020, you talked about the 2020 debates brock and this is what you say. you say, i guess donald trump played my part, lying in blustering and bullying by wade through the mock sessions to repair. i watched hours of tate's the 45th president as a businessman, 2016 candidate, and then an office we set aside special sessions during which i was expected to be at my trump worst as personally insulting in unhinged as trump can be. so take us inside that debate prep process. >> this is what you have to do in debate prep, but whether and i played other candidates before another debate, perhaps in that election cycle and before. and the requirement for doing it effectively, i'm not saying i did it effectively all the time. but the requirement is two, so immerse yourself in what the opposing candidate has said. >> the style of argument they've used, the tone that they've deployed, that you recreate as well as you can for the candidate you're helping with the experience of debating with that candidate will be like and so that's what i did. >> i threw myself into the history of trump commentary in debates, interviews, speeches, and i did the same thing when i played other candidates. i write in the book, i believe i wrote in the book that i also played al gore in the debates with bill bradley or mock debates with bill bradley and the democratic primary i'm very contest in 2000 and i've done other candidates as well. and the approach is always the same. >> do you do trumpet pressure? do you sound like donalds rob, are you talking to normal whenever whenever whenever you do this, you want to strike a balance between trying to approximate the experience but it's not an opportunity for theatrical that's a distraction. so you want to find some balance between recreating the experience and not attempting to, if you will audition for saturday that again, you can't do at trump impression right now? >> no, i'm afraid. i think i'll ever be doing it outside of debate so what did you see then as, and perhaps now is what his weaknesses, what is donald trump's weakness as a debater i don't know that i really should speak to that. >> what you do try to do is not so much anticipate what the response would be, but just put that candidate for forward in the most realistic possible way. and then it's really up to the other side, if you will, the candidate you're trying to help to probe the weaknesses to detect them, and to find ways to respond to them. interesting. and then what about his strength? what is trump strength as well? >> anything again, that's that's something that will either be appropriately on display in the way that debating style is recreated or if it's a failed debate prep, it won't be on display. but you're trying to give a balanced you're trying to do it exactly the way or as close as possible to the way the candidate you're trying to help will experience it and whether that, that will include if there are strings, it will include those tracks if their weaknesses, it should include those weaknesses. you do imagine you did write about other people. >> you played, bernie sanders, al gore, how different is it playing trump than those? >> you can imagine that going from bernie sanders to al gore is a journey. it's sort of an intellectual and psychological odyssey and the preparation is the same. >> it's just the candidate who's experienced with trying to bring into the debate prep is so totally different, whether or not you're involved in this debate, which you won't confirm, but how different do you think this debate prep will be compared to 2020 or will it be pretty similar? >> in my experience, the format for for again, there are always tweaks and modifications that depends on what individual candidates would like to do, how often they wanted to do a full rest mock how often they want to break down segments and do them separately. that varies from candidate to candidate. it may vary from debate and so it's really going to depend on what the candidate and his closest communications and political advisers think will be most helpful. what do you think biden's weaknesses and i can speak to that gail, i tried to get all right. >> so a major focus of the book is talking about, you call bad politics, and i want to read to our viewers and excerpt of this because the political actors no. the difference between good and bad politics. but many can get caught up in the game driven by their own ambitions, are demons and they suppress whatever flickers or conscience they may experience bad politics is rationalized easily enough. blood sport or the other side started at first, or the goal is winning and so very sorry about that, but we did what we had to do. so who do you think is pushing america towards what you say is bad politics? >> we have clearly seen a deterioration in the quality of our public life. now, it's a complicated story. i can only give my perspective and so i speak from my own experiences in the book, i'm giving my own perspective is a lawyer who has been involved in politics and i cover that whole lifespan. i don't want to go into how old i am, but i've seen a good number of years of politics and election cycles and the like and as you know, there are different explanations for where we are polarization the depth of our polarization, the depth of disaffection with our institutions. but it is clear that it is taking place. and the one point i'm trying to convey again through my own experiences what experiences do the stories that i can appropriately tell consistent with attorney-client privilege and client confidence in whatever the one point i'm trying to make is that at the end of the day, if we care about norms, we care about democratic norms that are so important to sustaining our democratic way alive. the people who have responsibility in government and politics have choices to make every day. those who write speeches, so to write campaign ads. so as you give legal advice and on and on, those in government who have decisions to make about how to advance the public policy debate they have decisions to make every single day that bear on the health of these institutions and have all that matters is winning by the way, a particular debate or a particular election. and they're prepared to sweep aside all of those other considerations having to do with the health and robustness of our democratic norms and institutions. we're going to be an sorry state because the people will have it in their hands to really make a difference day-by-day will have failed us. and that is a profound concern. we're going to slide from a democratic politics small de, to a democratic anti-politics. >> how does this, we're waiting, of course for this ruling the supreme court about former president trump asking for total immunity here. how does that ruling impact what you call the unraveling of our politics does have any impact on that. >> the ruling could be complex and there's so many different ways that could come out. so many different potential divisions on the court that we could see i will say this before i wrote this book, i co-authored a book with my colleague jack goldsmith, who is a professor of law at harvard on reform of the presidency the need to have that institution. and by the way, that relates very much to the health of our democratic institutions, to reform that presidency from a variety of perspectives. but including dealing with the question of keeping the president within legal bounds and as you know, the question of presidential immunity has been hanging out there for some time the office of legal counsel in the department of justice has twice rule that the president has complete immunity from prosecution as a matter of executive branch two law, complete immunity from prosecution while in office. but we've never had a ruling that is going to be as i think potentially as comprehensive in a significant about where the president stands in relation to the rule of law as the one that's coming up. >> so as you want, that's supreme court to uphold this circuit court decision on this. >> i i'm not going to speak to my personal views. i don't want to be confused with the views of people that i represented the moment, but but, but, but i do hope, i do hope that it is a decision that can bolster public respect for law and for what the supreme court, the job report will go here and protect the product. do you want to ask you one quick thing about the robert hur investigation you are involved in the presence defense in an in that report hur said biden would appear to a jury as a sympathetic, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory of course, that has been cited time and time again by republicans, wasn't appropriate for the special counsel to include that? >> no, it's certainly was not. i don't think it was consistent with doj guidelines. the case legally ended up where it had to end up. he was absolutely correct. there was no violation of law here however, the decision in this report to give his opinions and impressions, which by the way, were belied by the transcript once it was released, his personal opinion didn't even stack up from the impression that people got from reading the transcript i don't know why he did that, and i was critical of at the time and i think rightly so i'm bauer can't you so much for coming and sharing your view is really appreciate it very much. we'll be right back historically the soviet union killed traders i started to run two kgb cars, had come i didn't know what to do. secrets and spies. a nuclear game sunday at ten on 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london never gave up on me. i found a home, and my life is on the right track. london made it super easy for me to open my small business, by cutting city fees. and she's reinventing downtown to make our city vibrant again. she's building 82,000 new homes and helping first time homebuyers, just like us. and london's hiring hundreds of police officers, and arresting drug dealers. san francisco has been through difficult times, but our hard work is paying off. working together, we're building a better future for the city we all love. ad paid for by re-elect mayor london breed 2024. financial disclosures are available at sfethics.org. victories for veterans go to de av.org i'm those up. lord is in corpus christi, texas and this is cnn a reminder, we're just six days away from the first presidential debate of the year hosted by cnn. >> don't mess president joe biden, former president donald trump, go head-to-head on june 27, at 9:00 p.m. eastern. thanks for joining inside politics. i'll be 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