it could be announced as soon as today. that is what multiple sources tell cnn. mj lee is at the white house with the breaking details. and this is not just a couple of hostages. we're talking about potentially 50 here, right, mj? >> reporter: that's right. we are talking about initially 50 hostages. that is women and children being released in exchange for four to five-day pause in fighting. and also in exchange for three palestinian prisoners for every one hostage that is released. the hostages we are told are of various nationalities and u.s. officials are hopeful that a 3-year-old american toddler, who is being held hostage, would be in the mix of that initial 50 hostages that is released. it is unclear at this moment, though, whether there are going to be other americans in the mix of the 50 hostages released. now importantly, during the pause of the four to five days, hamas has agreed to or will agree to if this agreement comes to fruuation, stop flying surveillance drones over northern gaza. this would be at least six hours a day, we are told. we are also told that the idea is that during this pause, hamas would use the stop in fighting, the cessation in fighting to try to gather up more hostages, more women and children. and if that were to happen, then there is the potential for this pause in fighting to be extended so that more hostages can get out. now, another important piece of this, of course, is the idea of humanitarian aid that would go into gaza. u.s. officials and others have been pushing for as much aid to go in as possible. hamas has been making the point from the beginning that a pause is necessary for more aid to go in. u.s. officials, i think, would certainly agree with that, but of course this has been an incredibly contentious area of negotiation because one thing that hamas is pushing for a lot of is fuel. and fuel, as many experts have said, is exactly what helps to sure up its military operations like ventilating underground tunnels and everything else. so we'll see when the agreement comes out. again, sources say that this could be announced as soon as today. when that comes out, if where we land in terms of the amount, the number of trucks of aid that would go into gaza, you know, there have been weeks and weeks of negotiations that so far have not been fruitful. it's been incredibly tenuous, incredibly complicated with multiple parties involved. again right now the headline is that sources are feeling optimistic that a deal could be announced as soon as today for the release of 50 hostages, women and children. >> mj, i know there is a chance that some of the americans may be among those 50. it is again not clear. we don't have a list of who these people will be. there's a lot of hope, though, that the youngest known american hostage, 3-year-old abigail adon whose parents were killed may be among those released. is there any further guidance on whether that could happen this morning? >> reporter: that is the hope and that is the expectation. but really that is all we can say right now. and that really does -- goes to show and is a reminder of how little information we know about the hostages that are in gaza right now. we don't have a firm number. we don't know anything about really their condition or their whereabouts. we, of course, reported in the weeks prior that this idea that hamas itself may not know exactly where all the hostages are and that the hostages could be in different places throughout gaza. you know, u.s. officials have said don't imagine there being some sort of room or some house, one structure, where all of the hostages are being kept in one place. really this is a situation where the hostages were taken in and they really could be spread out all throughout gaza. and you know, this is one of the reasons that the negotiations have been so incredibly difficult. and it's also one of the reasons why right now we are talking about the idea of hamas using, again, the sustained multiple days pause in fighting, using that time to try to gather up additional hostages. >> mj, thank you for all of that reporting. stay with us. oren, to you in tel aviv, the timing of all this, this also comes at the apex of pressure on netanyahu and his government by israelis to get their loved ones out. we saw that incredibly tense meeting yesterday, basically saying you're not doing enough to focus on bringing them home. that is this moment and this is incredibly welcome news in that moment. >> reporter: absolutely. although i will say the families have heard before that a deal is imminent, even if it sounds more serious and more likely to happen now. the word imminent is something they effectively hate here and don't want to hear it anymore. they want to hear that a deal is done and that their family members are coming home today. we could feel the frustration and the anger as we spoke with them when they finally met with the war cabinet at the defense ministry late last night. that meeting lasted several hours. we spoke with one of the family members who came out early because he was so frustrated that there was no new information. although he was happy to finally meet the war cabinet, he felt there was no new information provided from what they already knew. at that point he simply left early. crucially we asked him, have you been given any updated information on the time line for the release of any hostages? he said, no, there was no such information provided. not by prime minister benjamin netanyahu and not by other members of the war cabinet. now the government here has been incredibly quiet and secretive about how that's going, but that would be more frustration and more anger for the families of the hostages to find out that less than 24 hours after they met with the prime minister and other members of the government that have to approve something like this, there is a hostage deal that they simply weren't told about. another key question, of course, is who is released? is it israel that decides who comes out? is it hamas? are full families released together? or does hamas not have the families held together and not know where different members of them are. so that will be another key question here that the families will want to hear. from israel's perspective, one of the concerns with even a short-term pause in the fighting was that israel and particularly the government still see it as their mission to destroy hamas, and yet restarting a campaign certainly a campaign of this scale we have seen happening in gaza, restarting that after a pause in fighting as international criticism mounts as the death toll there surpasses 12,000, that in and of itself could be incredibly difficult. especially if there is a longer pause in fighting for the release of not only the first 50 but more to come in more batches. it becomes incredibly difficult for israel to continue its operation in gaza. and that is one of the war cabinets concerns because they still see very much -- part of their goal as to destroy hamas. in fact, i'll make this last point, when we spoke with family members who came out of the meeting, they wanted to hear une unekwifically that the number one priority was release of the hostages. war cabinet said rescuing the hostages and bringing them out is as important as defeating hamas. >> all of those points are important. look, we have been told this is imminent before. we don't want to hear that unless we know it's actually happening. until it happens, there are still a lot of unknowns. u.s. officials seemed optimistic yesterday when they were asked, but cautious. looking at this, there are a number of security concerns, which oren just laid out. what are you hearing from your sources this morning in terms of where this may stand and what it could actually look like to oren's point. >> reporter: yeah. look, i think there are so many parties involved in this including parties that are obviously negotiating through intermediaries. the u.s. does not communicate directly with hamas. they're communicating about this entire negotiation through qatar and egypt. that it makes it very unpredictable. anything on the ground could also significantly shift the dynamics in this hostage release because, of course, we have seen hamas pull back from these negotiations in recent days in response to certain israeli actions on the ground, in particular. that israeli raid on al shifa hospital. and so, the dynamics on the ground could really impact whether or not hamas agrees to follow through with this hostage release. and i think that the cautious optimism we are seeing, of course, has to do with the fact that they believe that there has been consistent and sustained diplomacy going on for the last couple days that are leading to the sense that these dozens and dozens of hostages could be released soon. but of course it is so touch and go, the fact that hamas has pulled back, has disappeared in recent days only to re-emerge, it makes this very, very you know, untenable to say that this is going to be a done deal until actually a deal is reached and until you see these hostages actually exiting gaza. and so i think one of the big questions now is this question about the drone surveillance flights over gaza. you know, how sustainable actually is that for the israelis to pause those flights, especially because the u.s. is also helping with those drone flights over gaza and has been so key in monitoring hamas, trying to monitor where the hostages actually are. and so there are just so many moving parts it is unclear exactly what it will look like. natasha, oren, mj, thank you all. we'll continue to follow this just ahead. >> very closely. we'll stay on the breaking news. again f you're just joining us, sources telling us a hostage deal announcement could come as soon as today for potentially 50 hostages being held by hamas. next, we'll be joined by someone who has been deeply involved before in hostage negogotiations w with hamas.s. ♪ more on our breaking news this morning. sources telling cnn a hostage deal between israel and hamas could be announced as soon as today. with us now is middle east director of international communities organization, of course he was central in the negotiations with hamas to get an israeli soldier released in 2007. thank you for joining us. if you haven't seen the cnn reporting yet or for viewers just joining us, here are the top lines that our colleagues have gotten. it would be -- if it happens, 50 prisoners held by hamas in exchange for three palestinian prisoners for every civilian hostage released, essentially three for one. it would also mean a six-hour pause in israel with those drone flights over northern gaza. and it would be a cessation in fighting for four to five days. what is your take away from this? do you think this one is real? >> two things to caution us. there's no deal until there's a deal. once there's a deal it's brought before the israeli government to vote on and even then there's no deal until it's implemented. there are so many stages along the way where it could go south. we have to be very careful. the other thing i smile about is that in the first week of the war, i presented to the israeli side and hamas a deal to release all the women and children, elderly and sick hostages in exchange for all the women prisoners and all the prisoners in israel under the age of 18. there are 43 women and 190 prisoners under the age of 18. so it's more or less the same deal that was proposed in the first week of the war. i don't believe this is the whole deal. it's very unlikely that hamas is not also demanding prisoners to be release who had murdered israelis, serving a long period of time. everything else makes sense. a cease fire has to be part of it. >> so you think the more to it could be more in terms of the specifics who hamas wants released in exchange? >> i think so. i would be very surprised, pleasantly surprised, if they're just demanding the women and the minor prisoners in israel and not anyone else. the issue with a cease fire is complex. israel needs to redeploy its forces and full back. i don't believe that drones will stop floating over gaza strip. israel is still collecting intelligence information. and there's no reason for israel to believe that hamas would implement a cease fire when it does. it needs to be on guard and ready for any violation of the cease fire which could also block the deal as well, anywhere down the road. >> you said something really critical in that a deal needs to be signed off on by the entire israeli parliament. my question to you is -- >> no, the government. >> the government. would the farthest right members, though, agree to a deal where 150 essentially palestinians are released? >> no, they won't agree to it. but netanyahu needs a majority of the government, he doesn't need full consensus. he needs a large majority in order to make it legitimate in the eyes of the public and he will get that. we have to remember that he is very weak now. the weakest he's ever been, but nonetheless, i think that he will pull off a majority in the government. there will be a long debate. it won't be a half an hour meeting and a vote. it will be a long debate in the government. >> in terms of that debate one of the things we heard from our oren lieberman who spoke with those families after they met with them yesterday was that they were asking very specifically for the hostages to be priority number one. that is not the answer that they got what they wanted. moving forward, based on everything you see, as you noted it's not a deal until it's a deal. yesterday you told us you were hopeful based on what we heard 24 hours ago. has that level of hope changed at all in this moment? >> i wake up every morning trying to be hopeful. i'm also realistic. but the more talk there is about a deal seems that it's more real, although i have great suspicion about all the talk around the deal because usually what happens in these situations is that people who know don't talk and people who don't know are the ones who are talking. and all the talk is not very helpful. but, we've gotten deep into this war and israel is about to launch its major campaign into the southern part of the gaza strip where the hostages are located and the leadership of hamas is located. and we're likely to see that kind of step on the part of israel as being detrimental to negotiations. >> thank you so much for joining us with all of your expertise. come back if you learn more, obviously, on all of this. and we do want to bring in now the great aunt of 3-year-old abigail adon. liz hersh is with us. you probably recognize her because she was on cnn just a couple days ago. abigail is the youngest known american hostage and there is hope, our reporting is, that she would be among those released today if this deal actually comes to fruition. what would you like to say? i cannot imagine what you're feeling. >> well, i'm cautious optimist because we've heard this before. and although there's more excitement and more news pressing right now, we can't get our hopes up in a way that just believes that it's going to happen right in the next couple of hours. but, you know, when i think about that on friday is abigail's 4th birthday and that she should be home with her family and with her sister and brother and she isn't right now, it's just -- it's like you get your emotions -- you have to keep them in check because if not and you think about 9 month old children, little girls, little boys, mothers and you just hope that there's somebody holding these little children. and so, when people ask that -- i'm not a politician. i'm not a diplomat. i will believe it when i see them walk out, be driven out and they are free because until then, we just have to keep everything in check because it's just too much of an emotional roller coaster. and you know, it's 45 days. as you see, i have here this pin, this sticker, which is -- these people have been in the dark for 45 days. abigail is a beautiful child who wants to run around and play soccer with her older brother and sister. and she hasn't been able to run around in 45 days. i don't know where she is. we don't know. we just hope that she's with who she was taken out with with her three children and that she's giving her love and that on friday she'll be with her family back in israel without her parents but with her sister and her brother and her aunts and her uncles and her grandparents. so, for me, it's really emotional because i have no idea if this is real. but my heart believes it has to be. i have faith. and i just pray that this is going to be the real peace. again, until we see them come out and until abigail is in the arms of her family, i just can't go down to that point where i'm relieved and i believe it's going to happen fully. >> i think so many people watching can understand that and can understand exactly where you are and where you need to keep yourself in this moment. you've talked about how you felt like you've been in the dark. there's been very little communication. there's very little that you know. has anybody reached out to you in the wake of this reporting this morning in terms of -- in an official capacity? >> no. and the -- what i understand is that if there really is a deal and it does get to that place, that the hostage families, american hostage families will hear from the state department prior. but that hasn't happened. again, this is just more reporting and more, you know -- everybody says it's closer. the president said it's closer. everybody says it's closer. the qatari people say it's closer. but again i really, truly believe until we see the hostages and these little children and their mothers, whoever is in that first round come out, we can't put any -- we can't fully embrace that there is this deal. >> we hope that there's word for you and for so many others soon. liz, we really appreciate you joining us this morning. we will, of course, continue to check in with you as you hold out hope and wait for that good news. >> thanks. lawmakers this morning growing more concerned about the future of aid to both israel and ukraine. we'll take a look at what's holding back progress and what democrats and republblicans ara now sayiying. thatat's just ahahead. ♪ the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. ♪ back to our breaking news this morning. sources just telling cnn a hostage deal announcement between israel and hamas could come as soon as today. it is unclear if that announcement happens when the hostages would be released. but our reporting is that it would call for the release of 50 women and children being held by hamas in exchange for a four to five-day pause in fighting. this all comes as the white house is reacting to recent polling that shows president biden losing support other his handling of the israel-hamas war. listen to this from white house press secretary yesterday. >> what i'll be very clear about is we're not going to govern by polls here. we're going to -- or poll numbers. we're not going to change the minds of americans. i get that. americans are going to feel how they feel. >> in terms of those feelings, the polls show a broad lack of support among several groups. but it's especially pronounced among young voters. this nbc news poll shows 70% of voters ages 13 to 34 disapprove of biden's handling of the war. joining us now john king. so, the white house being very careful in language for obvious reasons. they respect the polls. americans are going to feel how they're going to feel. it's not going to sway their approach. i keep wondering, what are those real conversations privately? this makes sense as a public statement, but that has to be concerning. >> look, i covered the white house for ten years. that's the white answer and boilerplate answer. nobody can say we're watching the polls. the president has to say i'm doing what i think is right, agree or disagree. the timing, we're about to hit thanksgiving, next year is the election year. there's broad disaffection with this policy, with its mostly about israel but they don't think the president -- a lot of democrats, progressives, young voters just don't think the president is being tough enough on israel. giving them a green light for this. you just talked about the sensitive hostage negotiations. the president has to do his job. the calendar says this is a political down. >> what about a state of michigan. rashida tlaib going as far as to say voters, democrats, will not forget, mr. president, if you don't call for a cease fire. you went there. and you talked to especially young voters. college students. >> young voters. i was in tlaib's district for two parts of the trip. there are more than 200,000 arab-americans in michigan. they voted overwhelmingly for president biden. you pick up the newspaper on the front page are arab americans who voted biden saying abandon biden. among arab-american voters critical in michigan, college campuses, the president at the moment is in trouble. midterms are done. finals just ahead. there is a rhythm to life on campus. and this fall, a raw divide. >> i an israeli-jewish american. >> chatting with friends here at the jewish campus organization. >> police officer down the hall. >> uh-huh. >> that's not normal. >> it is now. >> traveled to washington last week to join thousands in support of israel. now, back on a campus divided. >> the division is very clear. the tension on campus is very high. >> reporter: wayne state spans 200 acres in downtown detroit. ibrahim among the 24,000 students. >> i'm muslim. i'm american. i'm palestinian. >> reporter: he calls anti-semitism horrible and di gusting. >> do you feel the flip side of it? >> in terms of islamophobia. >> yeah, of course. i think it's disgusting that standing up for children dying and women dying and civilian infrastructure being destroyed is being compared to supporting hamas. i mean, holding up a palestinian flag does not support hamas. hamas has their own flag. nobody is carrying their own flag. >> reporter: this coffee shop is in deerborn. a president they supported in 2020 is now green lighting an israeli response they see as indiscriminate. >> i don't think our country should fund that type of reaction. >> reporter: do you feel this way? >> to an extent, yes. i feel as though president biden doesn't value my life as a muslim american as much as he values other lives. >> reporter: young voters were a giant part of the biden 2020 coalition and this urban campus tilts deep blue. if it's biden-trump next november -- >> i would go biden. >> summer is just 18. a theater major, e-sports enthusist and lgbtq voter who wishes president biden would yield to someone younger. >> i think that weird generational gap is something that is very, very hard for young people. so when there's certain things that we want to be heard as young people, with not only the conflict doubt with israeli and palestine people but we have student loan forgiveness and all of these different financial problems that aren't being handled when they're very much capable of being handled. >> reporter: she isn't voting third party. >> feels like a weird throw away vote. >> joseph fisher favors the socialist party. in 2020 fisher was just 17 but he helped the aclu register voters back home in georgia. >> you helped biden get elected. >> i did, yes. >> what about 2024. >> i will not vote for joe biden, not this time. >> this is ann arbor, michigan university. students writing the names of palestinians killed in gaza. >> one of our demands is complete divestment from the state of israel. >> you say genocide. >> the prime minister of israel, the president of the united states would say response to terrorism. >> absolutely. it's absolutely essential that we call it for what it is, a genocide and also say it doesn't start on october 7th. it started in 1948 with the creation of the state of israel. >> reporter: some jewish students say believes like that are stoking an alarming rise in anti-semitism. >> i wish it wasn't like this, but this is where we live right now. >> 50,000 students in ann arbor, interest in the college democrats is up. >> we've had 50, 40, 30 consistently for meetings. and in the past it has been closer to maybe 10, 15, 20. >> reporter: seniors and co-presidents of the college democrats helped generate big turnout here in 2020 and again in 2022. they have weekly meetings now to plan 2024. >> should we have somebody younger? does that come up much? >> absolutely it comes up. and i think that that's a -- it's a real point to make. it's a real conversation to be had. >> reporter: the immediate challenge, though, is seeing students who agree on things like abortion rights and defending democracy at odds over the israel-hamas crisis and president biden's response. >> you know, mr. president, i have seen you take key humanitarian steps. but i think the next step is a cease fire. and i think that that would go a long way with voters. >> what will happen next week or next month. but if the election were tomorrow, do you think it is more likely some of your members would sit out or look for another option, third party because they're mad at the president about this? >> some of them, yes, they have shared with us that maybe this is making me reconsider. >> reporter: fair to say you're glad the election is not tomorrow? >> yes. >> reporter: you see that nervous laugh there, glad the election is not tomorrow. they have weekly meetings on the university of michigan campus. they are trying to talk to these young voters about, okay, you're worried about the president's age. don't focus on his age. focus on who makes supreme court nominations. what about the rest of his administration. trying to get them to do big picture. it's complicated now. you spend a couple hours wandering campus, events, large protests, small protests, 40 kids got arrested friday night. you feel it. the election is 11 months away but this is a problem. >> to your point, many of them wouldn't vote for trump but wouldn't vote for biden, they would sit out. what about the feeling of impact of social media on how these individuals are thinking about this and talking about it? >> there's no question. some of the students are very nuisanced about this. her family protested netanyahu's corruption, right? she doesn't like netanyahu's handling of the palestinian issue writ large. at the moment she has to stand with israel. ibrahim says is horrendous. he took grief. but some of the younger students the settler colony of israel, this is the progressive anti-israel, often anti-semitic stuff that gets put on social media. there's no question it's affecting arab people without a doubt. >> thank you, john. >> thank you. house speaker mike johnson traveling to mar-a-lago to meet with donald trump last night. what do we know about that meeting. that's ahead. plus a federal appeals court strikes down a key tool that's been used for decades to enforce the voting rights act. how this could now affect millions of voters next. ♪ welcome back. a federal appeals court has moved to significantly weaken the voting rights act in a case that is likely now headed to the supreme court. the appeals court ruled that only the justice department can sue under section 2 of the law, which bans voting practices like drawing maps that discriminate on the basis of race. that means voters could not file those lawsuits and neither could, this is what really matters, big groups like the aclu or naacp. joan biscue pick joins us with all of this. this is really significant even though the supreme court upheld section 2. this appellate court looked at language from clarence thomas and justice gorsuch, said not so fast. what does this mean for americans? >> that's right, poppy. good morning. it's a whole new confrontation over the votes rights act and who can vindicate triegts of blacks, hispanics and other racial minorities who might be disadvantaged in the drawing of state maps not able to pick the candidates of their choice. and see them elected in places where they have sizable populations. and you're exactly right. this lower court took its lead from clarence thomas and neil gor gorsuch, two of the justices who have said it should be a very open question and the court should revisit the issue of whether this private right of action under what's known section 2 of the voting rights act. that section prohibits any kind of discrimination based on race in voting. and only those two justices had been pushing it, but this court took -- this appellate court yesterday, poppy, took a very narrow reading that actually might appeal to a couple other justices. and that's the issue when it comes up to the supreme court if someone like amy coney barrett or samuel alito might go that way. i think chief justice john roberts thinks this is such a radical reading of the voting rights act that he would not be with them. it's a very open question now. showdown certainly in upcoming months. >> this is the eighth circuit the appeals court that looked at this. and it was 2-1. so what the dissenting judge in this really brought up what is foundational to our american legal system. and that is where there is a legal right, there is a remedy. how does that factor in as we look? this is a presidential election year and how this could change heading into '24. >> reporter: you know, poppy, you were quoting there the chief judge of the eighth circuit, lavinski smith, appointed by george w. bush. he pointed out the fact that this is -- congress would not have enacted a right that didn't have a remedy. and he also said that this is such an important right to self government would not be left just to the justice department. it would have been allowed by the naacp and aclu and also mentioned important statistic that in the last 40 years some 182 successful claims under this provision of the voting rights act have been brought and only 15 of those were brought solely on the part of the attorney general. so it just points to the importance of having groups like aclu and the naccp step in to vindicate minority rights. >> joan, thank you for the really important reporting this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you. erica? >> donald trump of course promised supporters in 2016 that america was going to win so much that people would get tired of winning. maybe you remember that. so are they tired of winning? jonathan carl joins with us the answer. he has a new book about trump fittingly called "tired of winning". a hostage deal between israel and hamas could be announced, could, as early as today. that is according to sources who tell cnn the deal could include a pause in fighting for four to five days. more on the breaking news straight ahead. ♪ the power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. and that's a good thing? great in my book! who are you? no power? no problem. introducing storm-ready wifi. now you can stay reliably connected through power outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery back-up to keep you online. only from xfinity. home of the xfinity 10g network. we're winning. we won in 2016. make sure that i -- we win by a lot. we're winning states that nobody has even thought about. we're winning, big, big, big. please, it's too much winning. we have to win more! we're going to win more! we're going to win so much! we're going to win with every single facet. we're going to win so much you may even get tired of winning! ♪ then candidate donald trump back in 2016 told supporters they were going to win so much -- you just heard it -- they would get tired of it. former president's chances of winning another term are very real. a number of polls show him leading or tied with president biden in a hypothetical head-to-head general election matchup. our next guest just wrote a book. it includes new revelations about trump's mindset after the january 6th insurrection. in this audio given to cnn, trump claims that he wanted to go to the capitol during the riot and he says he would have been, quote, very well received. listen. >> you told them you were going to go up to the capitol? >> i was going and to the secret service said you can't. by the time -- i would have. then when i got back, i saw -- i wanted to go back. i was thinking about going back during the problem to stop the problem. doing it myself. secret service didn't like that idea too much. >> so what -- >> i could have done that. you know what, i would have been very well received. don't forget, the people that went to washington that day, in my opinion, they went because they thought the election was rigged. that's why they went. >> the journalist who conducted that interview and the author of the new book is abc news chief white house correspondent jonathan carl. jonathan, it's great to have you. chief washington correspondent, i'll call you chief of all of it, out with another great book after betrayal and this audio is so crucial to one of the central arguments you make in the case in the book, the case that all too many people have begun to forget how desperately and madly donald trump wanted to zblz two things. memories have faded of what it was like at the end of the trump presidency and also people have paid very little attention since he left to where his mindset is. there has been endless coverage of his legal problems and of the criminal cases, but what is in his mind right now? that was my exploration. i spent a great deal of time exploring new information that came out, some pretty shocking new information about the final weeks of his presidency. i also pspent time talking to those around him, what it was like when he went to mar-a-lago, where he is moving. that was an interview i did in july of 2021. and what is significant to me there is he is saying that the people that were assaulting the capitol, he went up curing the problem, that the people that were assaulting the capitol would have received him well. i think it says a lot about how he viewed that day. i think it's pretty damdsing evidence. >> he says they would have received him well because they thought, quote, the election was rigged. we know where a lot of that thinking was coming from and that idea. it's interesting, too, in terms of where he is now, as you were getting at, this mindset of winning and he needs to win at all costs this is about winning, some of his comments in cpac at march were really telling. i want to play that moment. >> in 2016, i declared i am your voice. today i add, i am your warriors, i am your justice, and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. >> i am your retribution playing into this idea that we have heard and i think you can drill down on. this is a revenge tour in many ways. >> absolutely. he is telling people that i will go after the people who have wronged you by wronging me. it's a fascinating sleight of hand. he tells me that the real target is them, the so-called deep state, the people in our government, our criminal justice system that are going after him and all these cases are really targeting his supporters. now, obviously, his supporters haven't done things like pilfered you classified documents and taken them to mar-a-lago, paid money to a porn star in the midst of a presidential campaign, used the power of the presidency to overturn a presidential election, but it is the central message of his campaign. come retribution is the way it's described by steve bannon, term he acknowledged he borrows from the confederate plot to assassinate abraham lincoln. it's about retribution. >> you wrote the book for two reasons, john. what are he this? >> i wrote it because i want team truly understand what happened the last time donald trump was in the white house, truly understand in a way that we did not fully appreciate at the time and the way memories have faded. also i want people to understand where his head is at now. there is -- i think that the second trump term, if there is one, will be different than the first. i think that the starting point in many ways will be where we were on january 6th. but it will be one that will be unrestrained and it will be one where donald trump will be determined to truly use the full powers of the presidency to serve his own purposes. >> there is a piece in "the washington post" recently, talking to a dozen former trump advisors deciding if there is anything they can do because they are concerned about what a second trump administration would look like. we have had this conversation so many times. is there anything somebody could say, point to, people who work closest to him who have raised concerns, none of that seems to get through. were you surprised to see there were a dozen or so officials thinking they could potentially come up with something? >> it doesn't surprise me that they are talking about what to do. what i found over and over again is that the most searing criticism of donald trump and the most dire warnings about what it would mean if he were to come back into power come from the people that were closest to him. now, some of those people have come out publicly over the years and they have for the large part seep their careers destroyed. now, you have somebody like liz cheney, who i belief was on the path to be a speaker of the house, lose her seat in wyoming, not able to win a republican primary. her fight hasn't ended. no question she will continue to fight. but others have just left politics. whether or not any of it can have animism pact, i believe it can. i think that what you're seeing in the polls is, you know, reflection of discontent with joe biden and very little understanding and discussion of what trump would actually do if he came back to the white house that is starting to change now. people are starting to focus on that as they are getting ready to vote. >> he has been clear about what those plans are. >> yeah, absolutely. >> go ahead. >> absolutely. i mean, this is not a secret. it is about retribution, it is about revenge, it is about proving that he never really lost, when he did, so that this is -- he has been abundantly clear about all of this. >> not only chief washington correspondent, "new york times" best-selling author of soon to be this book, also betrayal and front row at the trump show. the book is tired of winning, jonathan karl. congratulations. thank you so much for joining us this morning. >> great to be back on cnn. millions gearing up for a busy thanksgiving holiday week. there is soen some severe weather. what you need to know next. and a hostage deal announced between israel and hamas could come as soon as today. we continue with our breaking news coverage next.
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