it's been a delight. we'll see you back here next week. all in, with two months until voters weigh in, a new iowa rivalry heats up. >> i delivered on 100% of my promises. >> all of this vendetta stuff, we can't go down that. >> reporter: florida's governor is all in on iowa. will it pay off? >> we have to send a great signal, and then maybe these people just say, okay, it's over then. >> reporter: republican presidential candidate ron desantis is here for an exclusive interview, next. plus, choose your opponent. facing political headwinds -- >> come on, man. >> president biden ramps up his attacks on former president donald trump. will that be enough to sway swing voters? our panel is here to discuss. >> and under pressure, amid outcry over gaza deaths -- >> free palestine! >> reporter: president biden rejects calls for a cease-fire, while his administration says they're working on a deal to bring back the hostages held by hamas. are they close? deputy national security adviser john finer is here. >> and maryland democratic congressman, jamie raskin joins me exclusively. >> hello, i'm jake tapper in washington, d.c., where the state of our union is praying for peace and praying for an end to this conflict, as soon as possible. pro-palestinian protesters took to the streets all over the united states this weekend, as president biden tried to defend his support for israel amid a growing divide in his party over israel's war against hamas, which has led to the displacement of hundreds of thousands of palestinians and the death of thousands of civilians in gaza. the world health organization says the al shifa hospital targeted by hamas is now a death zone. and hours ago, 31 neonatal babies finally were evacuated from inside the hospital. also in northern gaza, and i want to warn you, this good morning i'm about to show you, it's very disturbing. a horrifying new video shows dozens of bodies, including women and children, lying amid wreckage and covered in dust after a blast rocked a u.n. school that was, according to u.n. authorities, being used as a shelter. the u.n. said it did not know who was responsible for the incident. the israeli military said it was reviewing what happened. on saturday, president biden once again rejected calls for a cease-fire in the war. president biden writing that cease-fire is not peace. he underlined his support for a two-state solution in the long-term, as his administration is working hard to strike a deal between hamas and israel to release the hundreds of hostages still being held in gaza in exchange for some form of pause in the hostilities. joining me now is the u.s. deputy national security adviser, john finer. john, thanks for joining us. so what is the state of negotiations as of this morning? is there a deal imminent? >> re >> thanks, jake. i think you heard probably the prime minister of qatar speak to this earlier today. they have been extremely close, obviously, to these negotiations, as we have. the united states has been following this minute by minute, hour by hour, up to the level of the president for whom this is a major overriding priority, obviously, in part because there are a number of americans who are in this horrific situation. what i can say about this at this time is that we think that we are closer than we have been perhaps at any point since these negotiations began weeks ago. that there are areas of difference and disagreement that have been narrowed, if not closed out entirely. but that the mantra that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed certainly applies here to such a sensitive negotiation. and there is no deal currently in place. we are going to keep at this intensively over the course of the coming hours and days. we believe it is imperative, given how dangerous the situation is in gaza, to get these people home as soon as we possibly can. but we are not across the line and we are going to stay on top of it. >> i assume from the remark you just made that it is a requirement for president biden, that any americans being held by hamas must be included and any deal must be released? >> so i'm not going to get into any of the substance of these conversations. in part because we only have really one imperative here, which is to get the deal done. there will be a time and a place to lay out more detail about exactly what was agreed, if we get on a agreement, and exactly how this came about. but a time isn't now when we are still in the throes of a lot of back and forth to rytry to fini this deal. what i will say is that president biden feels no higher obligation, no higher priority than the safety and security of all americans, americans here in the homeland, americans overseas, but certainly americans who are held in such a horrific and dangerous condition as those who are being held hostage in gaza right now. >> we know at least three of the hostages kidnapped on october 7th have been killed. the remains of one and the bodies of two have been found. how many hostages do you believe are still alive? >> so, jake, we don't have exact numbers. one of the challenges associated with this is we're not on the ground in gaza, the united states. we are not in direct contact with hamas. we do that only through intermediaries. and so, we don't have perfect fidelity about exact numbers of hostages, including numbers who are still alive. but we do believe that there is a significant number of americans being held, that those americans are our highest priority, the president's highest priority. they include, by the way, a 3-year-old girl, who is an orphan, because her parents were murdered by hamas on october 7th. and so, again, i think you can see and understand exactly why this is such an acute concern, why i'm being a bit careful in terms of laying out detail and information, because really, first and foremost, we just want to get this deal done. >> meanwhile, the devastation in gaza continues, as the idf targets hamas. the u.n. says one of its schools in northern gaza was struck yesterday. the school was being used as a shelter, they say. video from the scene does seem to show dozens of dead bodies, including the bodies of women and children. what do you know about this strike? does the administration believe this was the result of an israeli strike? >> so, we are still gathering information about this incident that just happened yesterday. we've been in direct contact with unrwa, the u.n. agency on the ground in gaza. which, by the way, has lost more than 100 members of its own staff, you know, people who are going around, distributing assistance inside gaza pi. i met virtually with the head of unrwa just a couple of days ago. and we're in touch with the israelis to find out what they know about what happened. if harm was done to incident civilians sheltering at a u.n. site, that would be totally unacceptable. we'll continue to look at what happened in this incident, when we know more, we will share it. >> president biden we traveled to israel after hamas attacked on november 7th and killed roughly 1,200 israelis, the president warned israel not to make the same mistake that america did after 9/11, not to allow rage to consume them, not allow rage to divide their response. you, more than those of us watching the show right now, and more than me, know how much the israeli military is actually targeting hamas. whether the israelis are actually doing everything they possibly can to avoid civilian casualties. how bad the civilian death toll actually is compared to what the hamas-run palestinian health ministry claims. how widespread the destruction actually is in gaza. do you think the israelis took biden's advice about not allowing retaliation to be driven by rage? >> what i can say about this is it's not an assessment that can be made based on a snapshot of a particular moment. this is an ongoing conversation between the united states and the government of israel. and when there are incidents that take place, like the one that you just mentioned, that raise concerns, that suggest possibly that there has not been enough care taken about incident marin lives, which in our view are equal to innocent lives everywhere, that should go without saying, we raised those concerns directly with the government of israel. the president raised those concerns directly with the prime minister. for us, it is less about a real-time assessment and more about an ongoing process to try to steer things in the best possible direction, including for whatever combat remains, during the course of this conflict. we believe that the government of israel can draw, should draw lessons based on how the operations in the north have gone. and apply those lessons to wherever it takes this conflict going forward. >> a growing number of house and senate democrats are pushing for the administration to put conditions on the aid that continues to go to israel. senator bernie sanders, for example, says that any u.s. aid must be contingent on israel ending what he calls indiscriminate bombing in gaza, committing to not re-occupy gaza, reentering peace negotiations for a future two-state solution. what do you think about that? what do you think about conditions on future aid? >> i guess what i would say about that, jake, at this point, is that no assistance to the united states provides to any country is unconditional. it comes with a requirement that that aid be used consistent with international law, consistent with the law of armed conflict, and i want to also be clear that the president has said that israel has every right to defend itself against the horrific attacks that took place on october 7th. that is every country's right. that is certainly israel's right, and we are not only supporting that right rhetorically, we are, as you said, providing assistance to israel, so that it can do that in the most effective possible way. but to the points we were talking about just earlier in this same conversation, those rights come with obligation, and that obligation includes conducting this investigation that distinguishes civilians from noncombatants. in a way that's proportional. all of the requirements are applicable here. the last thing i will say on this, though, and it's important to bear in mind, that israel is fighting an adversary that not only does not hold itself to these same standards, it openly boasts about flouting them and its flagrant violations of international law. that does not diminish israel's obligations, but it is a facet of this conflict that makes the challenge extremely daunting. >> jonathan finer, thanks so much for your time today. >> thank you. president trump is asking iowans to give him a decisive victory in january at the iowa caucus. my next guest says he is the best chance to stop that, that he's going to win the iowa caucus. republican candidate ron desantis of florida is here exclusively next. plus, a big birthday for president biden. my panel breaks down his new campaign strategy. that's coming up. and welcome back to "state of the union." i'm jake tapper. we're less than two months out from the iowa caucuses, believe it or not. and last night, former president trump urged his supporters in iowa to help him seal up the nomination in midmust-january, with a fierce battle underway with two of his rivals, florida governor ron desantis says he's still the best one to beat president trump and says trump's attacks against him prove it. joining us from iowa, ron desantis, the governor of florida. thanks so much, governor. i want to start on israel. president biden is out with a new op-ed this week, he calls for a two-state solution, ultimately. even before the october 7th attacks, you have cast doubt on president biden's calls for a two-state solution. how do you think this should end for the palestinians? do you think that israel should occupy the gaza strip? what's your view of what comes after hamas is defeated? >> well, i think the fatal flaw with the push for a so-called two-state solution is that the palestinian and arabs have never embraced israel's right to exist as a jewish state. that ultimately, when israel's made offers in the past, that was the sticking point. and so you don't want a two-state that ends up being a stepping-stone to the destruction of israel. i don't think that should be contingent on any aid that they pursue that. and i should also note, jake, for many, many decades, people in d.c. said, you'll never be able to have relations in the middle east between israel and any other country, unless you have that. and yet we saw under the trump administration, the abraham accords, where they were able to make peace with many countries in the middle east and probably would have ended up being able to do it with saudi arabia had we not had the october 7th attack. going forward, i think israel needs to do what's best to defend themselves. i would note, gaza was not under israeli occupation. they pulled out in 2006. they uprooted thousands of their own israeli citizens and forced them to leave the gaza strip. and the idea was, give the arabs down there an opportunity to make something of it. and unfortunately, they turned to hamas and hamas used money to build a big terrorist infrastructure and ultimately wage attacks for many years, and the devastating october 7th attack. israel cannot allow history to repeat itself. >> right, but what comes next? i mean, i think that you would agree, probably, that israel occupying gaza is not going to result in piece eace in the reg. do you think that there should be a palestinian state where gaza is? >> i think that would end up becoming a hot bed of terrorism. i think we need to let israel win this war. we should support them publicly and privately to actually finish the job. because if you just do some glancing blows, hamas reconstitutes itself, we'll end up in this same cycle going forward. and israel is in a situation where they suffered the biggest attack on jews since the holocaust. you have an organization in hamas that wants to wipe israel totally off the map. this is not just some minor dispute. this is an existential threat to the survival of the world's only jewish state. i think they have to do whatever they can to protect their people and to make sure that this never happens again. >> something happened the other day that i wondered what you thought about, because you launched your campaign on twitter, now known as "x," and right now majority companies such as apple and disney are pulling their ads from "x," because elon musk openly endorsed this anti-semitic conspiracy theory that jews are conspiring to replace white americans with minority immigrants. i wondered if you saw the comment and if you condemn it? >> i did not see the comment, so i know that elon has had a target on his back ever since he purchased twitter, because i think he's taking it in a direction that a lot of people who are used to controlling the narrative don't like. so, i was a big supporter of him purchasing twitter. i think they're obviously still working some stuff up, but i did not see those comments. >> let me just show you. here's a post claiming that jews are pushing dialectical hatred against whites and flooding the country with hoards of minorities, and elon musk replies, "you have said the actual truth." he goes on to say that he's talking about the adl and other jewish groups are pushing replacements of whites. that's a lot of condemnation for singling out a specific religious group during this time of rapidly rising anti-semitism. i know you've been very out front when you see anti-semitism on the left. is anti-semitism on the right something that concerns you as well? >> across the board. and actually, i think in the advent of these attacks, the amount of anti-semitism that we've seen has really surprised me. and i'm somebody that's signed major legislation in florida to combat anti-semitism on college campuses. and yet what you've seen come out since then, and you have seen it on both sides. but i would say this. the difference is that on the left, that tends to be attached to some major institutional power, like some of our most austin universities, where on the route, it tends to be more fringe voices that are doing it. but it's wrong, no matter what, and i don't think that we've seen anti-semitism this bad in the world probably since the second world war. >> i don't know how fringe the voices are, to be completely frank. elon musk is the wealthiest man in the world and we've seen some major figures pushing really, really hateful stuff, backing this nonsensical theories of white genocide, white replacement theory, and i would ask that major republican figures like you use your voices as well to stand gen it. let's turn to another topic -- >> jake, with all due respect -- with awe due respect on that. to have somebody that's like blogging and doing stuff like that, okay, that's an issue. but to compare that with how some of these most powerful universities in the country have responded to this, we have jewish students fleeing for their lives, because you have angry mobs and yet they have not done what they need to do to protect the safety and well-being of those students. i have constituents in florida whose kids don't even want to go to campus in the advent of this because of such a hostile environment. i do think on the institutional side, you've seen this become part of a left-wing movement. a very significant pro-hamas movement, and it is backed by institutional power. >> yeah, absolutely, jewish students, just like muslim students, black students, gay students, all students should feel safe on campuses and the concern jewish students have right now is very serious. i'm just saying, elon musk is a pretty powerful guy and he's out there endorsing some pretty hideous anti-semitic conspiracy theories and i'm -- i still haven't heard you condemn it. >> well, because i haven't seen it, i know you tried to read -- i have no idea what the context is. i know elon musk. i've never seen him do anything. i think he's a guy that believes in america. i've never seen him indulge in any of that. it's surprising if that's true, but i haven't seen it and i don't want to pass judgment on the fly. >> let's turn to president biden this week at his summit on the pacific summit. he referred to president xi jinping as a dictator. now, yesterday you agreed with that, but also criticized personal diplomacy more generally. you said, quote, you're not going to win these guys over with personal charm. i mean, these guys are killers, unquote. just to be clear, you're calling xi jinping a killer? >> well, look, what's been happening to the uighurs? what's been happening in so many places in china? of course he's an authoritarian, of course he's a dictator. he's ruling the country with an iron fist. and i think that the summit was a big win for xi in terms of the propaganda. you know, you had american business leaders paying $40,000 to be able to sit with him at dinner. he got a rousing ovation from a lot of american ceos. i know that's already being played in china as an example of china basically being america's equal on the world stage. i don't think joe biden got anything of note out of this. i mean, they talk about cooperating for fentanyl as if china doesn't know the fentanyl is being sent to mexico and into the united states. of course, they know. this is part of their national strategy, to hurt this country. so i think it was a bust from biden's perspective. and i think it was a win for xi. >> you also attacked governor nikki haley this week over her response to the death of george floyd. take a listen. >> she was tweeting that it needed to be personal and painful for every single person. and i'm thinking to myself. why does that need to be personal and painful for you or me? we had nothing to do with it. >> so, the officer who knelt on george floyd's back for almost ten agonizing minutes, which we saw, because that young girl filmed it, he was ultimately convicted of murder. i'm sure you saw the video? i guess what i think nikki haley was -- >> yeah, look, that's fine, jake, and he should be held accountable. >> yeah, yeah. let me just ask my question. i think what governor haley was going for, and onspeak for her, but i think what she was going for is that watching the video is painful for americans to see, and do you not think that empathy is an important quality for a u.s. president? >> of course it is! nobody is saying that. but to say that the actions of one police officer means that americans in iowa or texas or florida, that it should be painful for them when they had nothing to do with it, that does not make any sense. and so that individual was arrested, he went through a criminal process, but that is not emblemblematic of police officers in general or americans in general. and that was said at the time we started to see the unrest in this country and you have massive riots that have destroyed cities like minneapolis. it's going to take decades for minneapolis to be able to recover. so the response to that was totally out of bounds. we didn't let that happen in florida. i called out the national guard, but that rioting was an absolute disgrace, and it hurt this country. your campaign keeps a running list and keeps tweeting a running list of donald trump's fumbles and accidents and confused moments, that's what they call them, saying this is why his handlers won't let him debate, noting times that trump has forgot what state he is in, times he has confused biden and obama, confused kristi noem and on and on. what do you think about donald trump's mental fitness? do you think he's too old to be president? >> i have said publicly, the president is not a job for an 80-ye 80-year-old. donald trump will be order on july of 2025 than biden was in january of 2021. but this is not the same guy as the trump in 2015 and '16. that guy would show up on the debate stage, he would barnstorm. yes, he was off-color, he was edgy, but it was all part of an idea that he was really going to shake things up. now he's wedded to the teleprompter, he's not willing to debate, and he's running on many of the same things he promised to do in 2016 and didn't deliver. for example, he said he was going to build a wall and have mexico pay for it. jake, he didn't build the wall and mexico sure didn't pay for it, because you would not have been able to have 8 million people come in illegally if we had a fully constructed wall. he also said that he would drain the swamp and yet the swamp is more powerful than ever. so he didn't do it the first time. i don't know what makes him think he's going to do it this time. he should show up to debate, prove he can sit on that stage for two hours, defend his record, defend his decisions, and tell people why he should be the choice gaining forward. because i think the point is simple. donald trump is a high-risk proposition as a nominee, because i think the chance of him getting elected is small. but it's a low reward, because he's going to be a lame duck on day one, even if he could get elected, he would not be able to attract the type of talent to work in his administration, and he would be saddled with all of these distractions that would be virtually impossible to get the job done. >> but is -- are you and your campaign saying that he has lost his sharpness, his mental a acuity, and are you saying that he'll lose to joe biden? >> well, i wouldn't be running unless i thought that the democrats would beat trump if he were the nominee. they're going very easy on him right now. they're not saying much. if he were to be the nominee, i mean, you're going to see scorched earth. you're going to see all the stuff brought up from the past. and the whole election will end up being a referendum on donald trump. and biden will be able to hang out in the basement, and i think he'll be able to get away with it again. look, when you get to this point -- the presidency is not a job for somebody that's pushing 80 years old, i think that that's something that has been shown with joe biden. father time is undefeated. donald trump is not exempt from any of that. i think with somebody like me, you go in -- i'm in the prime of my life, i'll go in day one, serve two terms, deliver big results and get the country moving again. that's what republican voters want to see. >> you also noted in an interview in iowa, that instead of focusing on his first day in office on building the wall, that donald trump was obsessed with crowd sizes at his inaugural. he was distracted with that. why do you think he gets distracted with things like that? what is it about him that makes him get distracted with things like that, do you think? >> you know, i don't know, but if you go back to that, when he took office, we just came off of eight years of obama. republicans had a lot of pent-up demand to see some change he was the vehicle nfor that. he made some big promises and it seems like every little controversy would bubble up and he would get distracted by going down those rabbit holes. i think it's important that you focus on true north. why are you there? every single day, the narrative, the chatter will try to divert you off-course. and you need to have focus and discipline that you're going to be able to get the job done and wade through all the choppy seas. why he cared about the crowd size, i don't know. but i can tell you this. if i had been in his shoes, i would have declared the border to be a national emergency on day one and i would have begun the mobilization to make sure that we secured and built the wall. that did not happen under his administration and now the situation is as worse as it's ever been. >> all right. governor ron desantis in iowa, thanks so much. appreciate your being here today. >> thank you. a growing split in the democratic party. i'm going to ask democratic congressman jamie raskin of maryland about the latest flash point. and a judge saying that trump engaged in insurrection. that's next. in order for small businesses to thrive, they need to be smart, efficient, savvy. making the most of every opportunity. that's why comcast business is introducing the small business bonus. for a limited time you can get up to a $1000 prepaid card with qualifying internet. yep, $1000. so switch to business internet from the company with the largest fastest reliable network and that powers more businesses than anyone else. learn how you can get $1000 back for your business today. comcast business. powering possibilities. welcome back to "state of the union." i remain jake tapper. donald trump celebrated last night after a colorado judge rejected an attempt to remove him from the state's primary, but the judge's ruling also offered a searing condemnation of trump's action, saying he, quote, nengaged in an insurrection on january 6th, 2021. joining me now, democratic congressman, jamie raskin of maryland. he was the lead manager of trump's second impeachment. and congressman, i'll get to that ruling in a moment. i want to talk about israel. but you wanted to weigh in on the interview i just did with governor desantis, specifically, about elon musk. what did you want to say? >> the guy is running for president and elon musk did that on wednesday. it's sunday. this is four days later, and he has not had the chance to read what elon musk wrote? that is very hard for me to believe. in any event, you showed it to him and he still chose to condemn it. if you're serious about condemning and confronting anti-semitism and racism and these bigotries, which are the gateway to destruction of liberal democracy, you have got to be explicit and open and full-tlofull fu full-throated about it and denounce racism and extremism across the board. >> what was your reaction to what elon musk wrote? >> i thought it was outrageous and dangerous and will be taking action with colleagues this week to write to him, to ask him to renounce those comments and clean up his act. >> the thing about the white replacement theory, and i've got a lot of other topics i want to talk about, white replacement theory and the white genocide, all of that nonsense, that stuff gets people killed at the tree of life synagogue shooting, the el paso shooting, the floub shooting. anyway, moving on. let's start with israel, because you called for the immediate release of all hostages and immediate cessation of hostility against any hostages and an immediate cease-fire. israel denies they're targeting any civilian targets. they say they're going after hamas and hamas embeds within the civilian populous. i wonder, when you say you call for an immediate cessation of hostilities against any civilian targets, are you saying the israelis are not telling the truth? what are you suggesting? >> we know that there have been more than 11,000 casualtyies on the palestinian side? >> you believe the palestinian ministry of health's figures? >> if it were half of that, it's still an absolute tragedy. so i'm not interested in the game of playing with numbers. if you just open your eyes, you can see, there are terrible casualties taking place. the hostages must be released. that is a humanitarian crisis in itself. there is a humanitarian crisis within gaza. the world is demanding that there be action so that there be humanitarian relief. and i'm glad that israel, the administration and people negotiating on the other side appear to be on the recipe of release of dozens of hostages, probably women and children and also a break in the fighting for five or six days, is what we've been hearing. so that -- >> do you want a cease-fire? >> anothe-- is a move in the ri direction. but the other point i made is we need the removal of the terrorist death cult hamas from operational control in gaza. >> but who does that? if israel doesn't do that, who does that? >> well we are in a place where we need every actor and everybody in the world need to be concentrated on that. hamas has got to go. >> but they've been there since 2006, 2007, egypt's there, they set up a blockade, jordan's there, syria's there. lebanon's there. the uae is there, saudi arabia is there, bahrain is there. nobody has done anything to get rid of hamas there. >> including prime minister, netanyahu, who thought he could lean towards hamas and use that as part of a divide and conquer strategy, and the world has got to get beyond that kind of absurd power of politics. it is a terrorist medieval death cult, which just assassinated more than 1,200 israelis. >> so you think there should be a cease-fire and in exchange for the cease-fire, the israelis get back their hostages and hamas goes? >> the underlying, yes, that is part of it, but the underlying political dynamic is that there must be a recognition of the interest of the people in gaza to democracy to freedom, and their rights. there's got to be a democratic palestinian state that emerges from this nightmare, that is safe and secure and we have a safe and secure israel to go with it. otherwise, we're going to keep reenacting this cycle of bloody violence and revenge forever. this is an opportunity. and i think that president biden and secretary blinken and people all over the world see it to get beyond this kind of madness. i saw the tape that was made of the slashing homicidal terrorist attacks that took place in israel. and it's like, we have 21st century technology, but 14th century brains. and we've got to be a lot smarter about where we are now. >> let me tell you, there's worse stuff than that. that stuff is awful, but there's actually worse stuff than that. i want to ask you about the video this week of the pro-palestinian protest that turned violent outside the democratic headquarters. and there were members in there, some of them with the democratic socialists of america, the new york branch, which celebrated on october 7th, saying it was legitimate resistance. at another rally down the street from here at union station, crowds were chanting, from the river to the sea, long live the in infantada, what do you make of this as a jewish american, a democrat, there's anti-semitism in the democratic matter these da days. >> well, there's anti-semitism everywhere these days, as we were discussing with elon musk. we're talking about a problem that goes back thousands of years, obviously. i was very disappointed to see what happened over at the dnc the other day. i mean, i'm glad that there are young people that are taking an interest in peace and social justice and those people i encourage. but for those who are somehow tempted to engage in pushing and shovel, like kevin mccarthy in congress, but doing it outside, i'm totally opposed to that. they should study the history of non-violent movements in america, like the women's movement, the civil rights movement, the lgbtq movement, the environmental movement that have been the great civilizing movements of our time and of american history that have transformed things. and that does work better than vio violence. >> speaking of violence, on friday, a colorado judge rejected an effort to leave trump off the 2024 ballot. but the court concludes, trump acted with an attempt to incite political violence and direct it at the capitol with the purpose of disrupting the electoral certification. the court has found that trump engaged in an insurrection on january 6th, 2021. is that legally significant? >> of course, it is. and they found exactly what the house of representatives found. when we impeach donald trump for inciting insurrection against the constitution and against the union, it's what 57 of 100 senators found in voting to convict trump on the same charges. and that is the paradigm act of domestic violence of our time, which republicans like desantis will never reject or renounce or denounce. everything else that they say about it is phony, because that goes right to the heart of our union. the colorado court's decision was amazing. because it said there's no doubt that donald trump incited insurrection against the union, within the meaning of the 14th amendment, section three. but the court said it doubted whether the president is actually covered by that language, whether the president is a civil or military officer of the united states. i mean, that to me is preposterous. the judge herself said, that sounds preposterous. and that's the issue now we're going to zero in on. does the 14th amendment apply to everyone who holds office in america, or does it apply to everybody except for the president of the united states, the one person who would be pest positioned to try to overthrow the government, as we saw, in january of 2021. >> congressman raskin, thank you very much for being here. and for anybody wondering at home, i already asked him and his cancer is in remission, which is wonderful news. have a wonderful thanksgiving with your family. >> thank you. is there a growing chance that a republican not named dodonald trumpmp could winin in early vovoting statate? our r panel willll break it t d nenext. donald trump is a high-risk proposition as a nominee, because the i think the chance of him getting elected is small, but it's a low reward, because he will be a lame duck on day one. even if he could get elected, he would not be able to attract the type of talent to work in his administration, and he would be saddled with all of these distractions that would be virtually impossible to get the job done. >> welcome back to the "state of the union." ron desantis there, florida governor taking some shots at the republican front-runner. is it enough? let's talk about it with my panel. alyssa, what'd you think of governor desantis on the show this morning? >> some of the tougher comments he's made against the former president, where i do take issue with his argument is that donald trump would be a lame-duck president. no, in fact he wouldn't be constrained with the barriers that have to come with running for re-election. so what i mean, he would be a really dangerous president. he would be able to do things and stretch the executive branch and how he runs our government in a way that would test american democracy in a great way. i disagree with him on. ron desantis has an iowa or bust strategy. he got the endorsement of kim reynolds. that's great. i don't see it being enough to pull through. my eyes on new hampshire where nikki haley is moving up and i think we should look at where governor chris sununu ends up going. does he end up backing nikki haley, that could be enough to put her within striking distance. >> what'd you think of what the governor had to say on the show today? >> i found it interesting that he wouldn't call out elon musk on his anti-semitic comments. >> you don't believe he didn't see the tweets? >> no. he says he's good friends with elon, so i imagine he would be monitoring what he's saying on twitte twitter, including his anti-semitic >> what did you make of it? >> i thought he was good on most of the questions. he's making a strategic argument which is trump is the most likely to lose but you have all of the national polling showing trump beating joe biden, by not as much as nikki haley or others. but he's still winning. even nbc this morning, he has him ahead. so whether you're desantis or haley, i think the steams that come out of that. >> and all of the polls show haley as the strongest candidate over and over. >> and she hasn't faced any attacks from trump yet. >> he called her bird brain. >> how much money has been spent putting her through the grinder. haley hasn't faced that. i assume she will soon for the reason alyssa just said, because she's moving up right now. and i expect there to be some normalization. i think a lot of chips are going in in iowa. vander plats looks like he might be heading toward desesantis, a i think new hampshire is interesting but to me this is always been about iowa. could anyone get within spitting distance of trump but their trying. >> and you didn't hear anything from desantis over how he's going to get over the problem republicans have with abortion. >> that is my fault. i didn't ask him about it. i had questions about it. >> and six weeks -- >> right, exactly. and as long as we're discussing other issues which are significant, what we've seen time and again at the ballot box, the embrace of a national ban, in florida a six-week ban is not palatable with voters and until they all grapple with this, i think they'll continue to run into a buzz saw at the ballot box. >> how much do you think that is a factor for the republican nominee. >> i think it could be one of the top five portions in the election and some represent where the vast majority of the country is. i don't mean to pump nikki haley, that is 15 weeks, that is modeling europe and most support somewhere around there with exceptions at all times. i think it is much harder to make a case at six weeks. that is radioactive in a general election. but what is interesting in the donald trump factor, no one is more responsible for roe coming down than donald trump. and they don't equate it to him. yes, he does well with evangelicals and on the right but his numbers with independents are good at this point. >> but nikki haley has not always been where she is now and i think that will come back to bite her later. sure, you could change your position but she's been very clear, this is a new i want to win the republican nominee. >> but she said this week she could sign a six week ban if it came to her desk for this week. >> it is not coming to anyone's desk. >> yes, it is a big issue because it is all they have. like at biden's number on the economy and his mental acuity and democrats voters have about his handling of foreign policy. it is all they have. >> speaking of biden's numbers, tomorrow biden turns 81. high pressure joe biden. if you're watching. for turning 81. that is a milestone that is unlikely to quiet the persistent concerns in his party about his age, but you heard ron desantis talk about donald trump's age which is interesting. they say age is just a number, but david axelrod said they need to face reality. i have i think has a 50/50 shot and he thinks he could cheat nature and it is really risky, they have a real problem if their counting on trump to win it for them. i remember hillary doing that too. >> well donald trump birthday is june and he will turn 78. and this discussion of age is going to sort of move to the side. it doesn't mean that voters aren't concerned. the president has acknowledged that. his team has acknowledge the that. but at the end of the day, people vote based on what the person is going to do for them. for their lives. and so when the conversation is what is joe biden's agenda of protecti protecting freedoms and raising wages, how does that compare to donald trump's consistent effort to take away your freedom to vote, take away your right to get an abortion, that conversation is a different conversation than the one we're having right now. it doesn't mean the campaign is ignoring age, but the end of the day voter goes to the ballot box based on what the president will do for them. >> and the support for the israel-hamas war. anyone young and left of center is not where joe biden is. i'm cross to where joe biden is on the issue. that could leave young voters home or get them rallying against him in a significant way and i don't think that is -- >> my last job in the biden campaign was engage on voters, black voters building the coalition. this time, four years ago, joe biden was at the exact same position. most people in the democratic party did not want him to be the democratic nominee. and now he's governing and it is to go out and meet voter where's they are. your right, a lot of young progressives are not happy, but we have the deputy security director talking about how they're doing negotiations to get the hostages back and to pause the atrocities that are not just happening on october 7th, but happening in palestine right now. so i think you're seeing the biden administration listening to its base and that is what you're supposed to do -- >> what is more likely, that donald trump could hold his core base together, or that joe biden with his problems with african american voters with young voters, withize had problems with people, could hold its base together. i think it is far more likely that he could hold his base again. >> but trump can't speak to the middle like joe biden can. the numbers couldn't get trump there. >> have a wonderful thanksgiving to all of you. i hope you have a wonderful and loving and delicious thanksgiving. thank you for spending your sunday morning with us. thank you. farereed zakariaia "gps" statar righght now.
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