Transcripts For CNNW CNN 20240703

Good evening, everyone. Im laura coates, here with abby philip, and this is a Special Edition of cnn tonight. Kevin mccarthy, i listed as house speaker, he says hes not dont even run again. Now, the house will be in recess for a week. Theyre not even planning to return till next tuesday night for cough conference meetings, before then, a Potential Vote later that week on electing a new speaker. So that means the house will be closed for business, maybe well get another speaker. Me while, because he lost that speakership gavel today, police said this tonight. These are the same people that never voted for me, they thought it was big they went to present. After we went through 15 rounds. Im not quite sure those individuals are looking to be productive. Well, this is certainly a moment in american history. And a series of a number of moments that weve never seen anything like before. Never before has a speaker lost the job in a vote on the house floor. And it happened with the pounding of the gavel. The office of speaker of the house of the United States house of representatives is hereby declared vacant. It started pretty much from the moment Kevin Mccarthy was Elected Speaker in the Early Morning hours of january 7th after 15 rounds of voting. I know i was up for it all. Hardliners in his own party had been threatening to dump him ever since. The gop civil war, well, it all came to quite the head today. We need a speaker we need a speaker who will fight for something, anything, your sides to staying or becoming speaker. They are willing to plunge this body into chaos and this country into uncertainty for reasons that only they really understand. I certainly dont. Chaos is speaker mccarthy. Chaos is somebody who we cannot trust with their word. Now its time for us to stand together, stronger than ever, so we can get back to the work our majority was elected to do. I am proud to support the speaker. Kevin mccarthy has been rocksolid. Weve passed the bills we told the American People we would pass. Well, now the house will be paralyzed in you remember how long that took the last time. And there are a lot of words to describe what we have been watching, frankly, all day. Chaos is one. Disruption, insanity, but i think dysfunction may actually describe it best. The house of representatives, the peoples house, is not functioning the way it was designed to. Can we all agree on that . And theres so much at stake when it does not, so many huge challenges our country is facing, so many things the houses actually not doing right now. I mean, there is aid for ukraine, fighting to keep its own democracy alive. Theres funding the United States government. Lets remember the lastminute deal that was hammered out just Saturday Night only funds the government through, what, November 17th . Youve got the Immigration Crisis at the borders. The epidemic of gun violence is Killing Thousands and thousands of us every single year. The Climate Crisis thats fueling wildfires and floods and monstrous storms, none of that is being addressed right now. Thats just a sliver of the things. But do the hardliners have a point of some kind . They are talking about the debt, which is reaching unimaginable levels. But the question is, how much of all of what we are seeing is politics and how much is principle . Is it all really about the Attention Economy and the spotlight . Or are they standing up for what they truly believe . Maybe the answer might lie somewhere in the middle. Joining me now, republican congressman dan meuser, he voted against removing Kevin Mccarthy as house speaker. Thank you for joining us. I spoke to you on the radio this morning. Here we are, the book end of a long conversation, congressman. I have to ask you, who should take the mantle of leadership next . Great to be with you, laura. I appreciate it. To answer your question, i want to support as our next speaker, and very unfortunately, today a very historic day, and not for the right reasons. It was historic in that we created a situation where we really have a setback for our party and for this body and for our nation. We werent constructive today. In many ways, we were destructive. To answer your question, we need a new speaker that, first of all, can do the job, thats got the capability, experience, to do the job. Secondly, that has the character, moral fortitude, that we can trust in, because we saw today that there were a lot of activities and antics. Taking place that i think were a bit questionable, that maybe were a bit selfish and were based on a vendetta. And thirdly, we need an individual that can win, that can win over all the portions of our Republican Party, which is pretty diverse, as we are saying. And can in the end, lead. So i know weve got that individual. Well see who it turns out. You mentioned chaos. We had chaos today, ill grant that. But you know what . Within a couple of days, we will be back working on truly the priorities that the American People sent us here for. Hopefully that is the case. I do wonder, and many people are watching this and wondering how deep that bench really is, because when it came to Kevin Mccarthy being sworn in, the first time, i remember there were a lot of different rounds, as you well know. There were names being thrown around. They did not have the 218 votes. It didnt seem like everyone was raising their hand immediately and saying, pick me, put me in coach, im ready to play. And play they must, congressman, because in 40 some days the next potential Government Shutdown will be here again. So how long with this process of trying to find that person that you say is ready actually set back those discussions . Patrick mchenry was of course the speaker pro champ, and its a great choice. Extremely intelligent, capable member. So hell guide us through the next several days. We will be voting come wednesday. We will be reconvening tuesday. And part of that, by the way, the recess, is due to, i understand, senator Dianne Feinsteins funeral. So we will be handling this come next week. A number of things that need to be done, organizational planning, as well as those members who are going to decide to enter this race and seek the votes. So i know theres at least two or three theyre on my short list. Who . Whos on that list . Its a little bit too early to say, but i its early in the night, congressman. Who is it . I do believe Majority Leader Steve Scalise is certainly highly capable, a great human being, and knows the operation of this and certainly meets the criteria i mentioned. I also think jim jordan is a strong leader, who i respect very much. And there are probably a few others. But i offered a couple of names there and, my guess is that they very well may run. But i cant speak for them. I havent heard that for certain. We heard manu raju asking jim jordan asking him if he would run. It was up to the caucus. I didnt hear you mention matt gaetz, although his name was coming up for other reasons. A number of your colleagues are trying to expel him. Nothing can be done, of course, until the speakers in place. But whats your opinion of matt gaetz tonight . You mentioned antics and things that you thought were disingenuous. Would you vote for him to get out of congress . No. That would be up to his constituents. Look, we had a long day. It has been some frustration, certainly and i really believe this wasnt done for the right reasons. You mentioned policy or principle i think a lot was politics, i think some was personal. The idea that they couldnt articulate, i mean they talk a lot, lets face it. Matt gaetz can talk a lot and in an articulate manner. But theres very little detail to it as to what the reasons were for this initiative. And if i join the others. Whats done is done. The eight joined with all the democrats to overthrow our Elected Speaker, that was took 15 rounds m but we elected. So far more speaker rounds in our congress were favorable to Kevin Mccarthy, myself included, and today what we did is we focused on something that the American People had no interest in us focusing on because kevin was capable and we were working on Border Security. We were working on, frankly, all the crises created by the white house, as well as far too many in the democrat conference. And we have inflation that is rampant. And we have border insecurity, Gasoline Prices at the highest levels. There are solution to these problems and thats what we should be focusing on. This, as i started saying, is a setback of the day. One administration cannot take the blame, but i wonder if it will be assigned to this party given what took place this week and this day. Congressman dan meuser, thank you for joining us tonight. Abby . Thanks, laura. Lets pick up where you left off there. Joining us at the table, john avlon, senior political analyst, still with us, jamal simmons, andrew yang, coleman young, and john, what happens to republicans . What happens to republicans next . Not a return to a highly productive governing, as the previous guest said. There will be a weke of jockeying and trying to figure out who can carry the mantle. Trump will pick his candidates. It will be a big week of Finger Pointing and horse racing. Steve scalise is probably in Poll Position because he is widely respected and has moral authority. And he is also the most qualified and least divisive. At the end of the day, the problem is structural. We saw history today. The first speaker taken out of office because of the scandal that he kept Government Open, and had the temerity to do it with democratic votes. That is a Firing Offense in washington. Add to this the legacy of john boehner leaving the speakership because he could not corral the far right, paul ryan doing effectively the same thing. Eric cantor for being forced out. All the young guns are gone, because of a structural problem with the Republican Party. They cannot control their farright. It will not get better. I want to read what asa hutchinson, republican, longtime republican, and running for president as well. He said what happened today on the house floor is a gift to democrats. It sets off alarm bells as 2024 approaches. Yes, absolutely. Democrats must be feeling this. They must be feeling that the Republican Party looks like it cannot keep its own house clean right now. And so, on the one hand this is a huge victory for democrats, on the other hand, i am not sure this should be seen as a victory from anyones perspective, because ultimately as the american citizens, the house governs all of us, right . You want to be willing to see people put governing the country over partisan politics. And sometimes that means crossing party lines and joining it on the other side, whether that be to fund the government or to keep the speaker in power. And we are just seeing too little of that on both sides, frankly. This is a loss for the country. And lauras list had ukraine eight at number one. Imagine if you were one of the u. S. Has partners around the world, or ukraine itself, saying, hey guys, we are fighting russia here, and then you see that aid to your military falls into this abyss of american dysfunction. I mean, our debt was downgraded just the other day, and do you think that if your Ratings Agency right now, if you have confidence in americas credit moving forward this is a huge l for the country. I wish that our parties actually had those interests first and foremost, instead of we will look good relative to the other guys. It is a disease that is destroying the country. Here is the problem. The democrats it is so hard for them to do a credible deal with the other side because these guys dont want to govern. They dont want to do anything beneficial. Its like they are trying to be fox famous, they are on television remember trey gowdy . He was the leader of the house and chose to leave congress to be a Talk Show Host. He thought it was more important to be a Talk Show Host than a leader of United States congress. They are not a credible group. So, if you are a democratic leader and you want to do a deal with a partner, you need somebody on the other side that you can trust to actually fulfill that. Yes, but this is a lost opportunity for democrats, ultimately, as well. I understand why they did not throw Kevin Mccarthy A Lifeline Out of the gate. They thought that he would be renominated and they could have gotten him better turns, something resembling more bipartisan structural issues. But, they chose not to do that, and that republicans will try to blame them for what happened to Kevin Mccarthy. No one should be fooled by that, this is about the farright. We need a party that is consistently adult in this country. It is not the Republican Party, structurally. I think that whatever the long game was for democrats, they could have risen above the partisan noise a little bit more and maybe gotten some favorable terms to have more genuine bipartisan government, Going Forward. So, jamal and john, you know who made the point that you are making, here . Here is republican congressman austin scott. If he is not a household name, that is okay. Take a listen to what he has to say. Those eight people are and our kids, and their chaos caucus members. The fact of the matter is, they get their power from the democrats voting with them all of the time. The conference will have to figure out how we deal with eight people that are not interested in governing. They are more interested in grifting. The story has been, up until today, always about these eight or ten or however many there are. The story tomorrow and toward the end of the week will be about what folks like that congressman do. He is angry. His face was red with fury because he is sick of this, and they will have some concessions that they want, too . Yes, they must be sick of this because dont make too much of this analogy, but the whole logic of not negotiating with terrorists, for example, is that the crazy people can determine policy if they are stubborn enough. And i am not comparing any u. S. Congressman to actual terrorists. Thats okay. But, the logic is the same. And as the more sane people in the party, you have to get sick of this. Remember, elections are choices between the people you have and the other people, right . So, the idea that there will be a magical unicorn that shows up and makes everybody feel better does not really show up. No, no, no so, if you are on one hand on one hand, you have joe biden and Kamala Harris, who today were dealing with lowering Prescription Drug prices for seniors, swearing in the fonda butler into the center of the news, its yet a very credible Governing Party happy you had ridiculousness. Everyone gets the contrasts, and biden can 0. 300 by present bills when democrats have control the house, senate, in watching in the first two years of his term. But this is a point that andrew makes all the time. We actually need to see the center hold for our politics to work. Those 18 republicans who are in districts that biden won should be exerting as much influence, if not more, than the matt gaetzs and the extremists on the farright that do not represent the party, let alone the country. We need the center of both parties to hold and work together, structurally that is not getting done. Jamal, we know the nature of todays Republican Party. The democrats in Congress Know the nature of todays party. So, if you say lets let them bring the country down and ha ha, we look good relative to them, that is bad for the country. If you had 20 democrats vote present and go to Kevin Mccarthy and say, we saved your bacon, here is what we want, we are having a very different conversation now. Here is the reason that did not happen, just as a reminder. We just talked to ilhan omar about this in the last hour. Kevin mccarthy used democratic votes on saturday, then on sunday he turns around and says, they are the bad guys. Its political theater, and everyone knows it. It is not just bad faith, but if you are a democrat how do you go forward and say, i can work with this guy . You cant, and lets keep in mind that this is not a this person or that person nature. These democrats will go out and run campaigns next year, and well be able to run campaigns against this Chaos Maga Wing and you might get a Democratic House back. What happens with the last and we had a Democratic House . You have infrastructure legislation, environmental legislation, child for childcare and working people. You had all sorts of things that happen. Youve got people nominated. What you are saying, jamal, is you can take a short term hit to the country because it will be good for your party in the next cycle. Its not about the party, its good for the country. The country will have a governing coalition. I think the larger point here that is trying to be made is that Kevin Mccarthy there was the debt ceiling deal. Democrats and republicans got us off that cliff and then he reversed himself. This is what kiss in the ring of maralago a couple weeks after january 6th will get you, nothing. Kevin mccarthy helped relegitmize donald trump and helped corral power and regain the speakership. He gained it by reed for a couple of months. It is not worth it. It is a question of whether or not Kevin Mccarthy could even have led in a bipartisan fashion. I think democrats cast their votes because they did not think he could. Well, democrats cast their votes because they were told to in a particular way. We all know that there was a diversity of opinion within the diversity of democratic party, until they decided we will not vote out Kevin Mccarthy, we will vote with matt gaetz for partisan reasons. Now, what happens next is a days role. As an american citizen, i would prefer not to have that kind of textural because anyone who says that they know what is coming next this is unprecedented, we dont know. We know the government runs out of money in 45 days. We know that there are vital priorities like ukraine aid that are now subject to us having a speaker. I have supported democrats my entire adult life, i would love to have a Republican Party that wasnt responsible negotiating partner, but we do not have one. We will see where this all goes, everyone. Dont go anywhere just yet. Coming up next, how frustrated are voters by all of this chaos, as we have just been discussing . I will ask a pollster, next. You cant do the job if eight people, you have 94 or 96 of your entire conference, but eight people can partner with the whole other side. How do you govern . Breaking news tonight, there has been whats been called a preliminary report of four individuals shot on the campus of Morgan State University in baltimore. That is according to the Baltimore City fire department. Our affiliate got this shot of a window with glass broken. Students are being asked to shelter in place. Agents are assisting the Baltimore Police department. Police and School Officials are asking concerned Family Members and students at Morgan State University to avoid the campus area. We will bring you more details as they come in. Abby . We will be keeping our eye on that story. Thank you, laura. Back to washington, now. Kevin mccarthy is out as speaker of the house. Business in the house is effectively paralyzed until a new speaker is elected, which will not be until another week from now. With me now is republican pollster frank luntz. Frank, i know that you are a longtime friend of Kevin Mccarthy. Have you spoken with him tonight . What do you make of what unfolded today in the house . I spoke to him just before the vote, and he was pretty seriously concerned about the outcome. I think that this reminds me of George Orwell and 1984. The people who Tell The Truth are accused of being liars. And the liars are thought to be telling the truth. And it is a sad day for my friend, but i look at the country and i am here right now in london and the challenges that are happening with their government and the challenges to other democracies, it seems we are becoming more and more extreme. We are ignoring the wishes of the American People. I want to emphasize to everyone that is watching right now, the American People wanted the Government Open. They want to end wasteful washington spending, they want a more efficient and effective government, they wanted it open, they wanted it to work. The speaker of the house did exactly, to the letter, what the public wished of him, and yet he lost his vote. And he lost his job. Do you think that Kevin Mccarthy should have cut a deal with the other side, created a bipartisan path forward . Is that with the American People would have wanted to see . The public wants the job to be done, and they wanted the Government Open. It is not an issue i keep hearing this phrase, cutting a job with the other side. We are on the same side. Those are members of congress, whether you agree or disagree with them on a majority of issues. We have become so divided that we see it as us versus them, and i think that is the greatest tragedy of all. I wonder just how chaotic things have to get before they stop playing this way, because these are political games. The person who brought this up is under we cant talk about it. I dont even know what the exact charges are, but matt gaetz is being charged by the Ethics Committee for improper and, from what i hear, awful behavior. And now, he gets rewarded. These eight members who are following, who made from what i hear, could be removed by the house for ridiculously, awful behavior. And he has dethroned the speaker of the house. So, congratulations, mr. Gaetz, on your success. I know he has been celebrating tonight, but i will say to the American People, from what i hear, those charges you have now followed someone. Those eight members of congress, he who has done awful things in private. And that is what the Ethics Committee is looking into him. I should note that matt gaetz has denied that this has anything to do with the ethics investigation against him. But i will say, frank, you have spoken to a panel of voters about how they View Congress right now. You are also someone who has worked in conservative politics for a long, long time. This is a fundamental, structural problem with the Republican Party. What message do those voters have, do you have, for republicans as they figure out a path forward, here . Because the matt gaetzs of the worlds, but the matt gaetzs of the world are not going away. No, and it becomes impossible to govern, which is what the vast majority of the American People are asking for. It is 90 , to spare no details, they may disagree on the solutions, but they agree on the problem. Then you have this 10 that just wants to burn it down and blow it up. To me, the goal should be to get the partisanship out of the system and have people try and get the job done. And frankly, what i am also disappointed in is all these democratic members, the Problem Solvers caucus, not one of them voted with Kevin Mccarthy. And i thought that there was a sincerity in the effort to work together, side by side, Problem Solvers caucus, get the job done. The fact that they followed, that they did exactly 100 of the democrats tell me that we have a system in washington thats completely broken, and that the people have every right to be mad at the politicians who represent them. Maybe they did not see Kevin Mccarthy as part of the solution to the problem. Is that a possibility . I know what is coming next. As someone on the inside, i know what is coming next. If they did not like Kevin Mccarthy, they will not like the next guy. For those republicans watching tonight, who is going to donate to your campaigns based on how you treat the will of the american campaigns . Who will write a check Going Forward . Maybe that is a good thing. Get the money out of politics. But i will tell you that tonight, the future of congress has been sealed. And it will be a democratic future that matt gaetz and those eight members who voted with him are responsible, and will be held accountable for turning the house over to the democrats. Let what happens happen. I do think that this is a tragedy. Frank, i hear the emotion in your voice. You have been friends with Kevin Mccarthy for quite some time, very close for all these years. We appreciate you coming on with us tonight. Thank you. Laura . Back to my table, here. We are reacting and listen to what was happening. That last point he raised about, who will write a check, and the donations, i mean mccarthy was a very prolific fundraiser. So, who will donate, now . I dont know, i can tell you this. Two months ago, aiko hosted an event for the speaker to protect the house for republicans, and republican challenger candidates across the country. Racist difficult out of money. Actually, the most significant about money raised in the dmv for republicans. Mccarthy raises money well. Mega donors, one person i wont mention his name, wrote a 1 Million Dollar check, for republicans. They like mccarthy and all these folks are talking about these agendas, and they want to have this republican majority you have to win elections to have a majority. So, i dont buy this argument from gaetz and the others that they are doing this for the for the furtherance of conservative ideas. I dont see that. Go ahead, karen. I think, though, this is what we have been seeing play out within the Republican Party for some time now, right . You have got the maga wing and the people who consider themselves republican but not maga. Then you have the folks who are never trumpers, who say i dont have a party anymore. You can hear it in franks voice, it is boiling over. As democrats, we have been trying to say for sometime, you guys have to work this out because it is ungovernable, and we cannot let the maga right wing lead everybody around and try to enforce their will on the country. That is what happened. They won in january, when it took 15 rounds for Kevin Mccarthy to become speaker, they want. They knew it, and they used their power tonight. Let me react to this, former President Trump did react to the news tonight, here is what he said. Why is it that republicans are always fighting amongst themselves . Why arent because he trashes every republican, every day, he is trashing them. It comes from trumpism. This is maga. This is all he does every day. He is more likely to trash republicans than he ever is to trash putin or attack general milley. What republicans have been saying anything about how he attacked general milley . I want to bring us back to what matters. Governor. I want the American People to hear me. Do you remember your civics . The speaker of the house is second in line to the presidency. Right now, we have a vacancy. We have the pro tem that beats the hammer and did some petty stuff tonight. But the reality is that right now, we dont have a Governing Party that is functioning in its role in the majority. I think that what is problematic here, laura, as we go forward, is what happens with ukraine. That is a big issue. Are we going to leave ukraine hanging . If jim jordans speaker, we are not getting no Ukraine Money. If Steve Scalise has to cut a deal but he will not allow money to be put into a bill for ukraine, what happens . You are talking about the nato alliance, the preworld War Ii Footing and what happens if putin realizes there is a weakness and goes to poland and to czechoslovakia and other places . And what are we doing . So, this has some really serious consequences. I dont give a rats bottom about who is raising money, i care about who is governing. I do want to play, for a second. I want to get in what a congressman had to say about this, kelly armstrong, and she says the points you are raising right now. Listen to this. The Incentive Structure in this town is completely broken. We have descended to a place where clicks, tv hits, and the never ending quest for the most mediocre taste of celebrity drives decisions and encourages juvenile behavior that is so far beneath this esteemed body. What is your take . These are the people who were picking Celebrity Apprentice guy as their nominee that is right. So, yes that is a problem and we need to get back to things like, if we want to have a deal, we need to have deals for Border Security. The deal that is there that Senate Republicans have taken out have laid out and worked with democrats is to have Border Security money, to have disaster relief, and to have Ukraine Money. That is a solid, conservative deal, bipartisan deal that is there for the making. If you are concerned about crime, things happening every day, republicans should be talking about those issues, not matt gaetzs latest problems or whatever is going on. Lets reconnect the dots to why Ukraine Money is a problem, and the people who are opposing the Ukraine Money also happened to be trump people, trumpers, pro putin trumpers, and to donald trump, zelenskyy is an enemy. This is a way for him to exact revenge. He got impeached the first time over it. He is using House Members to do it. Because of the first impeachment hearing, you believe . Yes, because he would not go along with the scheme to dig up and create some dirt on his soon to be joe biden, who he would go up against in 2020. To him, he is an enemy. Donald trump is very it is very black and white fact to him. You are either an enemy or you are not. He is an enemy, putin is someone he cares about very deeply. He talks very favorably about. I agree with you, sophia, but i would say that as a democrat, i think this is bad for the country that the Republican Party is so broken. I think our country is stronger when we have two strong parties and are actually arguing about ideas, not all this petty, you get out of your office, you lied to me, all that stuff. But again, if some folks want to blame it on democrats, we cannot save you. Your party has to get together and figure out, what are you going to do about donald trump and the maga wing . Otherwise, we will keep coming back to this. Voters are very sophisticated, they are an educated body and they know what matters to them. There is no one more overstate what they want them themselves. However, i do wonder about the stink and the stench of one party believing onto the other at some point, even though we are talking about republicans and when we talk about republicans next week when this vote happens, there will be cameras on the floor as we saw in those 15 rounds before. At some point, the American People go, congress, get it together. Congress in general. On the ukraine funding issue, there was a poll conducted by ssrs for cnn august 4th. 54 of the American Population are saying, we dont want additional funding for ukraine. There is this idea that republicans are somehow on an island on this issue is not backed by actual data. That data is not limited to republicanleaning individuals. That is not true. Who ran the poll . Fox news . It was a cnn poll, i am looking at it right now. I dont think democrats have done a good enough job articulating to the American People, why are we supporting ukraine . How long will this last . I explained it earlier. I am not saying i disagree. I dont know what is happening. We are all at this table. One after another, one at a time. Everyone wants to hear your very valuable insight, but let me be directed for a second because frank lets his point was talking about not just ukraine, which i know is the root of the issue you are talking about, but his point was about donations because he believed that the they were being punished for keeping the Government Open. Thinking about that, what do you think the voters feel, now . Well, i think voters want us to work together. They want us to support our government. They want the Government Open. They want the Government Open and i think they do support us. Supporting our allies. Regardless, these are issues of principle and when people are out there supporting not all of the voters. There is a third of the Republican Party half of the Republican Party will vote for donald trump no matter what. They believe that what he says is the gospel, the truth, and thats the rest of [inaudible] i agree with him, too. I think what lauras question brings us back to is, frank is partially wrong. Broadly, the majority of the American People absolutely that is what they want. The problem continues to be that one third, that 33 , who dont care. They are with matt gaetz, right . They dont care if it blows everything up, they think that is a good thing. Hold on, i am hearing something. The new york panel is screaming, they want to get in, too. Thank you everybody, they want to be here today to with republicans in chaos and the house paralyzed, they want to to weigh in. What are the next steps . A congressman who calls the motio to to vacate rule insane is up next. Plus, why in the donald trump issued a gag order against the former president. Cmon, were right there. Cmon baby. Its the only we need. Go, go, go, go ah Touchdown Baby touchdown are your neighbors watching the same game . Yeah, my 5g Home Internet delays the game a bit. But you get used to it. Try these. Theyre noise cancelling earmuffs. I stole them from an airport. Its always something with you, man. Great solid greek salad . Exactly dont delay the game with verizon or tmobile 5g Home Internet. Catch it on the xfinity 10g network. The power goes out and we still have wifi to do our homework. And thats a good thing . Great in my book who are you . No power . No problem. Introducing stormready wifi. Now you can stay reliably connected through Power Outages with unlimited cellular data and up to 4 hours of battery backup to keep you online. Only from xfinity. Home of the xfinity 10g network. Back yet. Heres what he had to say when he was asked if hes considered resigning from congress. I have not thought about that. I give it as good as i get it, right . You know the challenge. I knew going in. You would take a pull all the time, is he going to get thrown out this week . But you know what, if i lose my job over doing what i truly believe is right, i am at peace with it. Joining me now is republican congressman Carlos Jimenez of florida. Congressman, thank you for joining us, tonight. My pleasure. Your party now has to elect a speaker as soon as possible. Are you comfortable with everyone leaving and everything in the house being on hold for a week while you sort this out . I think we have to sort it out. Unfortunately, 3 of our caucus and 100 of the democrats in congress decided to have chaos over and orderly functioning of government, which we had. We probably had the best functioning house of representatives that we have had any long, long time. Again, like i said, 3 of our congress along with 100 of democrats decided to throw that into chaos. Why take so much time . Because, look. People have to get prepared. People have to announce that they are running. We have to vet all these folks that want to be speaker, maybe there will be a in effect when you have Somebody Running for speaker and then somebody needs to be a leader and all that. So, i think the best thing to do is take our time. Emotions are a little right now and we need to cool down a little bit. So, yeah, i think it was probably a good thing to give us a little time, come down, then start looking at these candidates and see which way bubbly will go. Right now, who do you think has the most support for the speakership . No idea, i know that i have heard some names. Nobody has my vote. The person that wants my vote and maybe a number of us has to agree to put on the Floor A Change in the rule of how the motion to vacate happens. I think the 1 motion to vacate is a little bit insane. We can not continue to be governing this way, where a speaker can have at anytime a motion to vacate, especially the speaker in our case that had 96 support in his own caucus, his own conference. He has been taken down this way, that is insanity. That should have never happened. It is a good point. This is a central issue, here. What do you think is a reasonable level to prompt a motion to vacate at this point . I think it should be 50 of the majority conference. Do you think that Something Like that could get support from enough people to actually elect a speaker who supports that level . I dont know, but that is what it will take to get. Me i know it will take that to get a lot of my colleagues. So, no, we will not be giving up on this. Look, i think the rule that the democrats ruled under last congress, the congress i was here, i am fine with that rule. So, maybe the democrats, if it was good enough for them last congress, maybe it is good enough for them this congress. We need a bipartisan effort on that side. But if we cannot get the democrats to help us and look, i dont blame them, it is really our problem. We will have to get commitment from the next speaker to be, if they want to be the next speaker, if they will put that on the floor so at least we can vote on it and other rule changes that will make us run better, and make this conference run and this congress run better. I am not going to be, and i dont think a lot of us will be, held hostage anymore. We are tired of it. Mccarthy said today that the republicans that ousted him, eight of them, are not truly conservative. Are they now more empowered than ever . Nope. They are only as empowered as we let them be, and i certainly do not want to be in the group that allows the eight to control the other 210, 212 of us. And so, the 212 of us that were not party to this need to stand firm. And no, we will not be governed by eight. Im sorry, the majority rules, that is what democracy is all about. So, we need a speaker who will actually stand up and speak for the entire conference. And, we need to have regular order where we can debate and the democratic process grabs hold. All the rules have to be applied to every single entity, no matter if you are in a Freedom Caucus or whatever caucus you are, that is the way it should be and that is what we will be demanding of the next speaker. I dont expect the next race to be easy. We have divisions, not steep divisions, but divisions between 96 and 3 of our caucus. Because of our narrow margin, that 3 carries a heck of a lot more weight than it should. A very loud 3 . Congressman, are you worried that all of this chaos will hurt republicans in 2024 . Yes, and that is why i dont think that these eight archer republicans. One of the greatest president of my lifetime and a true republican was Ronald Reagan, who said that if he got 75, 80 of what they wanted, that was good. These eight, this fringe group, need to get 100 of what they want or they get nothing, which is kind of counterproductive. I dont think they are true republicans if they believe that Ronald Reagan was the greatest president of our lifetime. Maybe they should follow some of his principles and know that every once in a while we need to compromise, not only with the democrats, but more importantly, you have to compromise inside the party itself. Not all of us have the same point of view, and so we need to come to that realization and let the process work out and let the chips fall where they may. When those votes come up, all right, we had our say, this is the way it came out, we will now have to vote in unison to make sure that we get those priorities that america needs, those bills. The change in america that we really need to make american lives better will pass, and. , carlos gimenez, thank you for joining us, tonight. My pleasure. And john avlon is back with me. A lot of bomb throwing their from a moderate republican. I have not seen this kind of animus play out so publicly. We have not seen this very much in our politics. But he said, we are sick of being led around by the terrorists among us. They want that motion to vacate level to be at half of the conference. That is a high bar, considering bob good told laura coates earlier that he wants it to be one member, which is what it is right now. That directly led to this chaos. What he was saying was it is time for the moderates in this caucus to actually make demands and insisting on showing the real strength of their numbers as opposed as having the conference directed and let around by the nose by the 3 . That frustration is real, is understandable, those folks have a disproportionate influence. And it is this insane 1 number, which used to be the standard, as you and i were doing some history, but politics have changed. It should be the Majority Lead that go forward. That is a reasonable demand on the part of people who want some degree of stability in governing, Going Forward it used to be one, and it was not used, really, at all. Right, which is a sign of how much our politics have changed. Earlier we were talking to frank luntz. He was very fired up because he is very good friends with mccarthy, but was making a lot of points about the Republican Party, Going Forward from this point. Just, what message this sends to the voters. What did you make of what he had to say . He was clearly angry, aggrieved, acting as an ally of mccarthy, saying mccarthy had done with the vast majority of the American People would have wanted, kept Government Open, kept military funded. And that might be true. And it is all true, by the way. That is what is so egregious about this, with any sense of perspective. Politics is history in the present tense, we are seeing that right now. The fact of the matter, the scandal of the u. S. Speaker was keeping the Government Open with democratic votes, shows how crazy things are. The added irony is, and i think frank is sincere in his desire to come together and get his country together, caucus i agree with it, but he was a big part of how we got here, quite ready to contract of america with newt gingrich. With every government shut down, since nuking grinch, the last 30 years has been with the republicans control the house. It is usually bipartisan for that get us out of that mess. So, we need the center to show more strength, and it is good to see republicans in the center trying to say, lets not allow 3 of the caucus to drive the entire party, but it ends up driving the entire country into the ground. Nancy pelosi had a five vote margin herself. The democrats governed just fine, passing 300 bipartisan bills. And look, republicans are pining for that kind of they bring up nancy pelosi all the time in a favorable way. Which is bizarro world, right . They think she was able to govern better than Kevin Mccarthy ultimately was. Signs point to yes. Crazier things have happened. John, thank you for joining us tonight. Laura . Well, new developments tonight in former President Trumps civil fraud trial. The judge overseeing the Trial Rebuking Trump after he attacked a court clerk on social media. The judge issuing a gag order and scolding the former president , saying, personal attacks of any member of my court staff are unacceptable, inappropriate, and i will not tolerate them. Ets talk about it with cnn legal analyst federal prosecutor and contributing writer to politico. So, number one, surprise surprise, trump made this statement, there is a gag order in place. What will happen in this case or others if he does not follow it . He will be sanctioned in the first instance, likely financial sanctions, but there is a slippery slope. If he keeps doing this, and in particular, hitting that nerve, the judges staff, someone who works with every day exposed to danger, that could also include, in the extreme case, confinement under new york law. Jack smith had raised in his case in d. C. What he did in other cases as well. Is there some Connective Tissue that one judge in one case may say, you offended us all . Well, i think not in that way, but there is some Connective Tissue insofar as there has been this huge debate for weeks now about whether there should be a gag order in d. C. This judge just did it, right . Just demonstrated that it does not have to be a big to do, it is not that uncommon, particularly when you have someone behaving as outrageously as trump has been behaving, in in and out of court in the last couple days. So, might soften the ground a little bit for some of these other judges to tack off on board and say, if he is doing it, it is not causing the world to implode. Hes a criminal cases. It is equally important, here. This attack was on somebody, the person identifiable was used by the judge as well. I wonder in the new york case he did not have to show up, not required to be there. Will he testify, or should he . Well, i think his presence in court signals the seriousness of the threat. Criminal prosecutions are subject to appeal, the federal ones if he or a republican is reelected or elected there could be pardons. This goes to his financial empire, his sense of selfworth, his name. The judge has said he is yanking his Business Licenses here. And he is avoiding receivers. Laura, as if i were arrested for drunk driving. We are taking away your license and car. My car is a big part of my identity, so this signals the seriousness. And that is why his lawyer has said that he has said, i will testify. He feels he is up against it. He says many things that dont come to pass. Right now, i think it is more likely than not that he will try to defend himself. Of course, he did not appear for the e. Jean carroll Sexual Misconduct where he was not required to be, but did not show up. He has been talking about this political witch hunt against him. Interestingly enough, he has been going after the president s son, hunter biden, who was in court himself, today, pleading not guilty to his gun charges. He has been saying that they are targeting him in particular and going after him, and weaponized in reverse order. Where do you see that case going . I think there is something to the notion that this is a case that would not have been charged under ordinary circumstances. It is a very aggressive charging theory, the charges dont stick on a standalone basis. There is something to that. That is now all in the past, in terms of what the prosecutors discussion was. We now have a case. We have the four corners of the indictment. He has got some arguments, the constitutional arguments about whether or not these charges are still appropriate under Supreme Court law. But these will be challenging cases for the defendants. People get charged with crimes like this, prohibited persons, felony possession, all day every day, all across the country. These cases played out. They are usually not that hard for the government to. When the last time there was a plea discussion, it imploded in a courtroom. We will hear back if that happens. Norm, so nice to see you this morning evening. Up next, as one member of Congress Loses his job, another gets one. The other piece of history in washington, d. C. , today. You have seen a lot of history in the making, today. You are probably sick of it at this point. For the first time ever, the speaker of the house was removed via a vote on the house floor, but there was another moment worth your time, today. It is that democratic senator Laphonza Butler made history when shes won in by vice present Kamala Harris as the First Out Black Lesbian to Enter Congress and the only black woman presently serving in the United States senate. Now, senator butler was appointed, as you know, by governor gavin newsom to fill the seat left vacant by the death of senator diane feinstein. Now, she does become only the third black woman to serve as a u. S. Senator. Enough to tell you, abby, my daughter whos nine is always joking with me and says, mommy, you always say historic. History seems to happen every single day. That might be true in some context, but today this really was a historic occasion, given the fact that who is even swearing here in . Yeah. Look, some people are wishing for some president of, times no more unprecedented times. But this picture right here on your screen is historic. And also just a note, the ties between these two women, Laphonza Butler a key former aide to Kamala Harris in a president ial campaign. Kamala harris, the Kamala Harris, the first woman brack vice president. Its a major moment. It is. It doesnt mean there is not going to be other conversations who will ultimately hold at a permanent level that seat that will be left vacant by the l