Transcripts For CNNW The 20240703

Meadows. She was in the room for much of the controversy that has led to indictments against donald trump and many others. Right now, she saw trumps behavior firsthand. Knows about the Text Messages sent among circles inside and outside the white house. Republicans who begged trump to do something to stop the riots but those same people would get on tv and make up a case to challenge the 2020 Election Results knowing that trump lost. And Cassidy Hutchison says trump, too, knew he lost. In an interview today, she told me donald trump would be a threat to democracy if he should win again. Take a listen. People have been holding him accountable for the past years but obviously not accountable enough because we are in a position right now where its looking more likely than not that he could be the republican nominee and hes also been indicted four times. To me, its sad were in this place as a country where were looking at somebody who has executed this horrible assault on our democracy and we are continuing to give this person a platform. Thats not what we should stand for as americans and i think that donald trump is the most grave threat that we will face to our democracy in our lifetime and potentially in american history. Again, to underscore that. The Chief Of Staff to the Chief Of Staff in Donald Trumps white house believes that donald trump is the most grave threat to democracy in our lifetimes and potentially in american history. I also asked her about what seemed to be a threat that donald trump recently made on friday to the outstanding chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark millie, a combat veteran of afghanistan in iraq in a post last week referring to his phone calls to his chinese counterparts. Truth wrote on truth social in times gone by, quote, the punishment would have been death in all caps. Exclamation point. I asked her how seriously should americans take these sorts of comments by trump . Take a listen. I do believe he means it. What i would like to say to this is i think for years, we have not held donald trump accountable to the things he says and when he says those things and when he strokes those comments to people who have had profound careers defending our democracy, we need to take him seriously. There was also a moment in the interview when i asked her about the mug shot from georgia of her former boss, white house Chief Of Staff, mark meadows, with whom she was quite close. What goes through your mind when you look at that picture . I see someone that didnt have to be in this position. You know, i, i see that picture and i feel sorry for him in some ways. Because he had a lot of opportunities to do the right thing. And to come forward. You know, hes a man that has a family. Thats also another unfortunate impact of this. When youre in Donald Trumps circle and you have that loyalty to him, it impacts your life in more ways than one can imagine and you know, i, i hope that marks doing the right thing if he hasnt already been doing the right thing as what i define the right thing. In her book out today, enough, Cassidy Hutchison writes about having once been close with now Speaker Mccarthy. In the book, she refers to him as kevin. I asked what she thinks of kevins leadership today. You write about being disillusioned with mccarthy. You say i started to sense a significant shift in kevin. Whats the shift . What happened to him in your view . I think that kevin had an opportunity after january 6th as did mitch mcconnell, as did all the elected officials in congress that are republicans, to denounce what happened on january 6th and work against trump still having a stronghold on the Republican Party. Kevin was fairly outspoken in the days after january 6th about how it was wrong. But then after the former president left office, mccarthy went down to maralago and to me, that was sort of the beginning of that transformation, nothings going to change. You know, i still have a lot of respect for kevin. I hope for the best for him as the speaker. Especially as we see the chaos thats happening on capitol hill right now. But i, im not confident that hes a good leader for the Republican Party because he is a talking head for donald trump. I want to turn now to former National Security adviser, john bolton, who worked during the Trump Administration and of course was warning us about donald trump long before a lot of other people. Ambassador bolton, good to see you. You heard hutchison describing the Trump White House perhaps even more chaotic than our viewers knew. Although for you i would imagine, maybe not so dissimilar from your experience . Yeah, a lot of it sounds like another day at the office but her portrayal, i look forward to reading the book, i think is devastating. Add it to all the evidence thats out there, shows why trump is not fit to be president. He wasnt fit the first time and hes not fit for a second time. What we need is a way to persuade other republicans that the danger that trump poses. She said that trump, in her view, is the greatest threat to democracy in our lifetime. Maybe even in american history. What do you think . No, look, i think its important not to overstate the nature of the threat or understate it. Youve got to be coldblooded about it because if youre off, youre going to propose remedies that are wrong. This is a strong country. The Roman Republic didnt fall overnight. It took cataline then sula then you get to caesar. Though it gags me to think of comparing trump to julius caesar. I think we have got to have faith in the people for the protection of the constitution because the remedies some will propose will be as bad as the cure. But hutchison, her basic argument is that if trump wins again, if trump wins in 2024, he will stock his administration with no guardrails. There will not be a general millie or a general kelly or a general mcmaster or a john bolton. It will be all sycophants. It will be all Steven Millers and sebastian gorkas. Does that argument concern you . Sure. Look, i think its almost certain that the top level of the second trump term will be the bottom level on january the 20th, 2021. And then it will go downhill from there. But the consequence doesnt mean that the government will then be under his control. I think one of the greatest dangers that a second trump term brings would be constitutional crisis. Who is he going to nominate to be Attorney General . And when the Attorney General gi gives an order for trump, say prosecute john kerry for violating the logan act, and the Attorney General asks some of the career people to do that and they say no and resign. And the entire Department Of Justice begins to resign. What happens when he gives illegal orders to the career military and they start to resign . Thats, i think thats what were going to have. Its not so much the threat of trump asserting his authority as the breaking down of institutions. I think a very obvious candidate for Attorney General in the Trump Administration would be the Attorney General of texas, ken paxton. While were on the subject of these hypotheticals, on friday, trump posted to his truth social account basically an argument that outstanding chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mark millie, in days past, would have been executed because in the closing days of the trump presidency, millie, according to press accounts, learned that china had received intelligence that trump was going to attack and he called china and said were not going to attack you. Please dont think were going to do that. Trump took offense to this. And said you know, hes invoking Capital Punishment for this and we know from the Atlantic Magazine that millie is convinced according to the atlantic, that if trump were to win, he would actually pursue prosecution against him. There are a lot of people who feel that way and do you not think that is a serious proposition, that that would actually happen . Well, i think it is a serious proposition. Youre trying to put me in jail for publishing the book. But the question is just because trump tries to do it, do you think the institutions dissolve . I dont think that happens. I think as long as you still have an independent judiciary, a lot of people may run up a lot of legal fees, but it will result in the country turning against trump and well see how this plays out. You know, hes got to get people confirmed by a senate thats going to be closely divided even if you have a majority of republicans. I think how his nominees fair, many of whom will be grossly unqualified and ken paxton may have faced his own Criminal Trial by then. Its not a fore gone conclusion that trump gets his way. I am opposed to him getting the republican nomination, but even if he does and wins, the battle goes on. Its going to be a costly battle. But i think panicking and assuming the absolute worst underestimates the strength of the constitution and our institutions. Yeah. I just think people need to be clear eyed about what is possible. I want to ask you a question with your National Security adviser and former United States ambassador to the United Nations hat on if you would. If you would humor me. Semifor has a new investigation out detailing how irans government wanted to influence u. S. Policy particularly related to the nuclear deal and the report details how some of the experts who signed on to help iran sell its case ultimately became top aides to robert mally, who ultimately became the Biden Administrations former Special Envoy to iran. How credible and how concerning do you find the report . Well, i find it credible and concerning. I know we dont have much time here. I know the administrations going to try and blow this off and just say oh, theres nothing to it. Let me just say i think based on what we know and we dont know everything, but based on what we know, we are very close to an alger hiss moment here, of somebody the establishment cant recognize as having put the country in danger. He was a harvard law graduate. He clerked on the Supreme Court for Oliver Wendell holmes. People say how can he be a Communist Spy . But he was. I think every reporter who has ever dealt with the Biden Administrations Iran Negotiating Team needs to look in the mirror and say have i been taken in. This is very serious. We need congressional hearings on it and i think if theres any possibility that the administration thinks its going to negotiate any part of getting back into the Iran Nuclear Deal, thats got to be put on dead stop. I know there are a lot of other things going on in congress but this is extraordinarily serious. Ive never seen anything like this in my own diplomatic career. Thats for sure. All right, were going to have the National Security counsel Spokesman John Kirby respond in a second. Thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it. Glad to be with you. This just in. A new york judge has found donald trump and his adult sons liable for fraud. This is part of a lawsuit brought by the new York Attorney general. The judge has found trump, his sons eric and donald jr. And others in violation of new york law. She says they repeatedly engaged in fraud by providing false Financial Statements for roughly a decade. This case will dgo to trial nex week. Coming up, how the words of Cassidy Hutchison could be used in a court of law, and calling on bob menendez to resign. 19 of his fellow Senate Democrats have said he should step down but nothing yet from one notable democrat, president joe biden. I will ask john kirby if its time for the white house to weigh in. Stay with us. To iran and the new report that appears to show the extent of the iranians government soft power and influence campaign inside the United States and europe. The Iran Nuclear Deal negotiations during the Obama Administration semifor alleges the iranian government backed Iran Experts Initiative sought to quote bolster tehrans image on Global Security issues, ta they made the rounds on various Media Outlets to push the need for compromise between the u. S. And iran. Some members of that Initiative Also appeared on cnn. This kind of effort is typical for countries trying to influence Thought Leaders and Decision Makers here in d. C. But the report goes on to reveal that three members of the group went on to serve as top aides for robert mally. Thats the Biden Administrations Special Envoy on iran who was placed on leave in june. Mally did not respond to cnns request for comment. Semafor says the information is based on documents and emails obtained and translated by iran international, a Persian Language Outlet Outside iran. As recently as last, it said one of its reporters was attacked in new york. Cnn has not been able to verify the veracity of the documents. Joining us now to discuss, white house National Security spokesman and retired admiral, john kirby. Good to see you. The state Department Spokesman was asked about the story this afternoon. He brushed it off as Quote Something that happened a decade ago. Thats a little glib. John bolton just called the report credible and concerning. He thinks there needs to be congressional hearings. Whats your response . Is the Biden Administration taking this seriously . Well, this reporting just came out today. So were reading the reporting ourselves and we havent come to any conclusion about the press report itself or its validity. I think were going to have to see where this goes and take a look further at the Press Reporting from semafor. I would add all this aside, the iran deal when signed, did set iran back by many, many months in terms of their breakout opportunity to reach a Nuclear Weapons grade capability and because the Previous Administration tore up that deal, they are now just weeks away from that kind of a breakout opportunity. So the iran deal on its face and in principle, was a good thing for our National Security. But i mean, is the white house even looking into this . Doesnt sound like theyre taking it seriously. I wouldnt say that. The reporting just came out so were just now reading this reporting ourselves. I dont want the get ahead of where were going to be in terms of looking at this Press Reporting but it just came out this afternoon. Were reading through it and i dont have anything to say or announce in terms of next steps here based on this single press report. Okay. Came out this morning. Turning to the indictment of Senate Foreign Relations Committee bob menendez, democrat of new jersey, the Justice Department report says he shared Sensitive Information about the number of american personnel in the u. S. Embassy in cairo. They have, the copies of texts, which he told his now wife and she passed it on to egyptian officials. These allegations and many others, are as of now, apparently Strong Enough for 19 of his fellow Senate Democrats to call on menendez to resign. Is that not enough for the white house to call on him to at least step down from the chairmanship of the Foreign Relations committee . These are serious allegations. We know that. We see that, too. And right now, it is an open investigative matter and were just not going to insert ourselves into that matter. We have to make sure that we can continue to meet our National Security commitments around the world and that includes the relationship we have with egypt, which is critical. So thats what were going to stay focused on. Its your Justice Department making the allegation. I assume you trust that the allegation is accurate. Do you trust that the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that the information he has, that he can be trusted with it . Again, these are allegations. Its an open investigation, jake. I think you can understand im not going to get ahead of that. Allegations by your own Justice Department. By the Justice Department. Which is an independent Cabinet Agency and again, theyre serious allegations for sure. And you know, they need to be fully investigated and fully pursued but thats a judicial issue that again, were not going to get involved in. Your white house is warning the government shutdown, which at this point seems likely, would be Quote Disruptive to u. S. National security. Its part of the daily Messaging Effort by the white house to drive home the impact of the shutdown. Do you think republican lawmakers hear you . Is there something nor concrete that the white house could be doing to avoid the shutdown . While were out talking about the impacts, were maintaining contacts and communications with members of congress mo make It Imperative we get an appropriations deal. To get our troops paid the way they deserve to be paid and our National Security interests met. Its not just a Messaging Effort. We are certainly in touch every day with members of congress to try to find a way through here. But ultimately, its going to come down to Speaker Mccarthy and his caucus. In particular, a small group of extreme republicans inside the house. That seem to be wanting to hold the troops interNational Security hostage to make a political point with the speaker. Quickly on ukraine and the long requested long range missile system. If the u. S. Does provide attack ems, are you worried it will bolster the administration waits and gives in too late . First of all, i dont have any announcements to speak to with that particular system. Secondly, we are in constant communication with the ukrainians every single day about the capabilities they need. We have given them everything theyve asked for in terms of their counteroffensive and thirdly, we have evolved the capab capabilities as the needs of the war have evolved. That includes air defense, high mars, artillery. As the war has changed, we have changed with it and were going to continue to change with it. Good to have you. Mexico is making moves to help slow the surge of migrants by focusing on its border. Were going to take you there live. Thats next. So. I know you and george were struggling with the possibility of having to move. Hows that going . We found a way to make bathing safer with a kohler walkin bath. A kohler walkin bath provides a secure, spalike Bathing Experience in the comfort of your own home. 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But this humanitarian crisis is not unique to just the United States. Its also unfolding along mexicos southern border. David is in mexico right next to the border of mexico with guatemala. David, tell us what youre seeing. I think when a lot of folks think at the crisis at the border, they think about the u. S. Mexico border. The reason were here is this is very much pertinent to what is going to be impacting the u. S. In the coming weeks if not months. This is the river that connects on one side, guatemala and where we are, mexico. Its a lot of moving. Constant moving. Youve got these rafts. These are folks that are going to go back to the guatemala side. A lot of them are helping to bring more mie ggrants over. Theyve created on this side, the mexico side, let me show you this. An encampment that has become a little city of sorts. You can hear the bell ringing. Perhaps some of the vendors. Youve got set ups where mexicans have made this an opportunity for business. Seeing all the migrants coming in. Many from venezuela, cuba, haiti. They come through this direction here then they become customers for them. But youve got what has been a constant flow. We see those numbers on the u. S. Side and hear reports about them fluctuating. Theyre down then they spike. One thing you see almost consistently here is theyre increasing and the numbers and influx is nonstop. Its been going up for the past several months. Theyre at record levels here in this area of mexico. The nearest big city. I want you to listen to some of the migrants weve caught up with. The wife is 5 months pregnant. She and her husband made the trek over the past month and a half. Take a listen. Shes tired. Tired. Its incredibly difficult for somebody whos pregnant. So many people die. Pass away. Just too much to carry. They had to ditch most everything they had with the exception of this small bag that they have some medications, some clothes, his phone. So, jake, we spoke with them about 24 hours ago. We just messaged with them. Its an hours drive but a days walk to start the process to claim asylum or the Transit Documents to buy some time here in mexico before they can get to the u. S. Is mexico, the mexican government, doing anything to depressurize their southern cities . Interestingly enough, we flew in from mexico city early yesterday and on the flight with us, weve got some video from our encounter at Baggage Claim of all places, was mexicos head of migration. This is a gentleman whos supposed to be overseeing this, trying to figure out how to depressurize, in your word, these cities seeing a massive influx. As of now, theyre trying to slow down some of the railways bringing freight up to northern parts of mexico. They put regulation on some of those to put guards to keep people from jumping on board those trains but you have folks who are slowed down but still moving forward. Even those who are deported from the u. S. Have said yeah, this is my third, fourth, some fifth time making the trek after having been deported. Its a constant flow that seems to only be growing right now. All right, david. Thanks so much. Murder charges dismissed and then refiled all within a matter of hours. How the case against a Philadelphia Police officer took multiple wild turns today in court. Well bring you that story, next. Were continuing to follow a stunning story and today, a stunning sequence of events in that murder case against a Philadelphia Police officer. He is the officer who shot a man during a traffic stop last month. Were going to roll the Body Cam Video that shows the deadly shooting. A warning. The video is very disturbing. Shots fired. Get your hand up initially, the Philadelphia Police did not tell the truth about what happened in that shooting. This morning, a judge dismissed all seven charges against mark dial, the Police Officer, but then moments ago, a Philadelphia District attorney refiled all seven charges in a high er cour and now the Police Officer once again facing murder charges. Danny freeman is outside city hall. Walk us through whats happening. Well, jake, listen. The judge in this case was abundantly clear but short in her decision earlier today. She said she agreed with the defenses case 100 after they argued that Philadelphia Police officer mark dial in no way committed murder when he shot and killed the man. The decision took only two and a half, excuse me, less than two hours once that preliminary hearing started this morning. I want to talk about exactly what this hearing focused on. Basically, there were two points. First, what did officer dials partner say right before that shooting occurred and then what did both officers see . Well, prosecutors, they called officer dials partner to the stand. Michael morris. And he said that he screamed knife in that moment leading up to the shooting then Defense Attorneys on crossexamination played video that we the public have all seen. You can hear on that video that officer, the partner, officer morris, say not just knife, but also gun. Including an expletive, then you hear officer dial fire his shots. The second thing the defense team really tried to emphasize the what both officers might have seen in the seconds leading up to that interaction. The officer on the stand who was the partner of officer dial, officer morris, said he saw a knife then the defense, they put up images of the knife that was found at the scene and it was like a Hunting Knife and the defense team argued the handed looked like the handle of a gun. The prosecution says regardless of this, he drew his weapon before he got out of the car and during a routine traffic stop. The defense rather the judge nis agreed with the defense and thats how you got the ruling today. How did the family react to this mornings ruling to dismiss the charges and i dont know if youve spoken to them since the charges were refiled, but if you have, to that . The first thing ill say about the second part to your question is theres a planned rally that should be kicking off any moment now. Well hopefully get some reaction about the charges being refiled. But to put it frankly, there was devastation the moment this decision was read from the court. You had one side of the courtroom that was pretty much filled with Police Officers. They cheered. They applauded this decision but on the other side, the family of the man, they were in tears. Take a listen to what one of his relatives told me just after that decision. This videos everywhere the neighborhood, witnesses in the neighborhood prove, they prove that my nephew did not come out of that car he locked the door to the vehicle his windows was up wheres the threat . Even if he has a small pocket knife, wheres the threat . Where is it . You can see, jake, an inedible amount of emotion coming out of philadelphia today. As you noted at the top, the district attorney, theyve already refiled these charges again but this time again with a higher court and they are the same charges that were just dismissed at this lower court and that includes murder. Jake . Thank you so much. There is so much more to discuss from my interview today with Cassidy Hutchison. She has been a key witness for the january 6th committee. Also testified before the Georgia Grand Jury as well as federal investigators overseeing the January 6th Investigation and classified documents case. How her words could be used in cases moving through court right now. Thats next. Were back with our Politics Lead and the interview we showed you earlier with Cassidy Hutchison. A reminder. This is what she told me about helping mark meadows from keeping President Trump out of jail. His stated desire, and whether her testimony might result in trump going to jail. Every day was a hair on fire day. We were swimming to stay afloat, but most of us were drowning so when mark said that that day, i was alarmed because it was one of those moments for me where i was like i thought that i had a gra grasp on what was going on and i realized i didnt, but i did take mark seriously in that moment. In that moment for me and my service to mark, i wanted to make sure i did whatever i could to help mark achieve his goal. To keep trump out of jail. Correct. I came forward to testify with the information i knew and most of the information that i knew could be corroborated by other people. I hope that what i testified to would cause other people to come forward and testify truthfully. And were back with our panel. Elie honig is joining our panel. Cnn will reair the full interview tonight at 10 00 p. M. Eastern. From a legal perspective, im wondering if you heard anything in the interview we did that could be of legal significance getting the president into even more hot water. Especially when she writes in her book that donald trump told meadows about his loss, this is embarrassing, i dont want people to know that we lost. For sure. I think she is a uniquely powerful Witness For The Prosecution for a few reasons. First of all, she had access. She was in the room. She was by mark meadows side. There for some conversations with trump. Which brings me to the second point, if you listen to her, shes very careful. She doesnt overstate things. She says heres what i know, what i witnessed firsthand. The next is the content. That point when she has testimony about donald trump directly acknowledging he knows he lost, thats the whole ball game. Then the last thing, this struck me. At one point, you showed her the mug shot. You said whats your reaction. I was sort of taking note here. Is she going to dance on him . She said no, im sad. It didnt have to be this way. To me, that shows me shes level headed. Even keeled. Thats what you want in a witness. What information would prosecutors in any of the cases against trump in his efforts to overturn the election be looking at . Everything she says in her book and interviews is fair game and if and when she takes the stand will be cross examined. Shes been remarkably consistent. One, admissions by trump that he knew he lost. Two, she has given us the key insights. His failure, his refusal to act. And three, his acknowledgment about the crowd. That crowd that gathered on the ellipse that day. She said this publicly in her congressional testimony. She said he knew they were armed and they arent here to hurt me. Is there anything, congressman, that you there is anything you learned from her book that you wish she had told the hearing, the Committee Last year . Not really, because i think she was very open with us. A lot what was we the threads we were able to follow from her, she obviously said there was nothing i heard where, oh, that would have been a good one to pursue. The committee, we had a time limit. We knew at the end of the year, we had to stop. There may have been more threads to pull, we needed another year, six months to do it. Hopefully doj has picked up on some of that lead. Seeing the personal side of her, i knew the impact it had on her. Obviously in what we were doing. But just to see, you know, having to hide, basically, in atlanta, in a hotel room for a year or more . I can tell you the last couple of years were fairly rough in my family. But i wasnt, you know, unable to go out in public. I couldnt imagine having to be sequestered from anyone seeing you in public. Part of why Cassidy Hutchinson says shes speaking out now is because shes afraid of donald trump getting elected, getting the nomination, beating joe biden. She says hes not fit for office. Heres how she describes it. I think that donald trump in a second term does not have any would not have guardrails. I think we saw that at the end of the first term with how things played out after he lost the election. He violated our constitution in multiple ways. It is completely fine to wage to File Lawsuits in countries in states. What is not okay is when you threaten and assault the constitution and our institutions of government. I would not put it past donald trump, jake, to put those institutions of government in a worse position than they were in during the first term. Its one of the powerful things i think she said to you, first of all because this is a young woman who was so loyal to donald trump. She wanted to go to maralago even after january 6th and continue to work for him. So not only was she an insider, but she was someone who still was in the fold. And shes come to this conclusion. I think the other reason its important is what we hear from donald trump every day on social media, these posts. He continues to be an election denier, the big lie continues. And he continues regularly on social media to attack our institutions. To undermine the Department Of Justice. So she knows it firsthand. But were also hearing it straight from him every day. No, absolutely. Im wondering what you make of this as a conservative republican. The fact that donald trump remains in all likelihood, your nominee . It tells me that conservatism is not real in how its described today. Theres a few people left that actually believe in a conservative view of government. The rest have become author authoritarian. Thats actually more becoming about own your enemies, fight back. Donald trump is not trying to hide retribution. I am your convenient. Cassidy is right about guardrails. The thing that worries me more is this acquiescence of my party and the fact that youre going to have people who put people in place, knowingly weed out the people that would be the guardrails against that. Theyre going to have the you wont have the john boltons to pull him back from abandoning the kurds. Any job in government, you can find somebody to take that job and acquiesce to Donald Trumps wishes. The guardrails to democracy, they exist but theyre manned by people. You can change whos manning those. One of the things she writes in the book is meadows took a document, classified document, crossfire hurricane, the trump russia investigation, gave it to two farrightwing Media Personalities who toe the maga line and that the white House Counsel wanted it back because there was stuff in there that was classified. And it ultimately got back to the white house. I mean, if it is exactly meadows disputes this. He said it was unclassified by trump. If it is how she says, and i have no reason to doubt it. If it is how she says, is that a crime . Yes, if it is as she says, mishandling of classified documents. This is going to come down to at this point, he said she said. Is she corroborated . Is there any record of these documents presumably cipollone would corroborate. Exactly. If it happened as she said, yes, thats criminal. Coming up next, the brandnew lawsuit against amazon accusing the online marketplace of running a monopoly. Alexa, can you define an antitrust . The Federal Trade Commission and attorneys general from 17 states filed a suit against amazon. Com arguing that the ecommerce giant is a monopoly, and its one that abuses its power, they allege, in order to keep prices high and put its own products at you at the expense of everyone elses. Amazon denies doing anything wrong. With this suit, the Biden Administration is going to break up three of the Biggest Technology companies around. Amazon, meta, the owner of facebook, and alphabets flagship google. Depend how these trials come out, the internet may look very different in a few years. If you missed the whole interview with Cassidy Hutchinson, you can see it tonight at 10 00 p. M. Eastern right here on cnn. Our coverage continues now with one mr. Golfs blitzer in a place