Former american Three Star General mix of that and other Key Developments in the war. Plus, is it basil ready . The exodus is now on from the morning man doesnt, were Tens Of Thousands have been stranded by a plague of mud. Good evening, john berman here in for anderson, we begin this labor day evening with a picnic president ial politics and polling. They all came together today and New Hampshire. Some republican candidates all something at the same picnic, and new polling thats no picnic for all but donald trump. It matters, the experts say, because thats when voters really start paying attention. This is attention getting. Trump now has the race nearly two himself. 59 support, 59 suppt from republicans. His nearest rival, ron desantis, now 46 points behind. As for a potential trump, biden, matchup in the General Election, it is 40 39 with 3 for two third party candidates, and a large number 17 undecided. Head to head without third parties and voters forced to choose, the two are tied at 46. Cnns is in New Hampshire for us tonight. Jeff, how many of the republican candidates were there tonight and what are they saying . About half the republican field was in New Hampshire today, holding a variety of parades, and picnics as you said. Four or five candidates and we just finished in events here in New Hampshire with former Vice President mike pence. He gave a message that certainly many of his rivals could agree with. They hope the campaign is that the starting point, not the ending point, making the case that labor day is the traditional Launching Pad of a campaign. So, thats very much an open question. Of course, the former president has many supporters as you were just saying in those National Polls. But, states by state, theyre a little bit more competitive without question, and the burden is on many of the candidates to make its even more competitive. When you talk to voters, when you talk to Republican Voters and here in New Hampshire, the allimportant independent voters, there is a sense of many more open minds here, trying to see what the field is doing, trying to see who could perhaps confront the former president in a oneonone race. But, former Vice President , mike pence, just a few moments ago was answering a question from an independent voter here in New Hampshire. There is not a democratic contests early next year. Those independents all important here, could vote in the republican primary. Thats of course what Chris Christie is hoping for, mike pence was even trying to with the independent voters. So, that could be a wildcard. But, there is no doubt. Whether the campaign is the Beginning Stage or somewhere in the middle, donald trump has a overwhelming commanding gleed. Independents obviously do matter in New Hampshire. You are there. What else are you picking up on the ground, because as you do note, it is a state by State Campaign to the republican nomination. Iowa first, the New Hampshire, whats the pacific State Of Play in New Hampshire . The State Of Play in New Hampshire is similar to iowa. The former president certainly has a sizable lead at this point. But, there still is a sense that some republicans are window shopping, are eager to win the General Election, and they wonder of donald trump is the person for that. I was having a conversation earlier today with fred New Hampshire governor kristi new new, and he pointed out how donald trump fared here in the General Election in 2020. He lost to joe biden by 60,000 votes. Four years earlier, he only lost to Hillary Cricket fans why if he believes was a rematch between trump and biden, that this simply would not be good for the Republican Party. So, there is no doubt that donald trump has a lead in this race. But, even some trump voters with Trump Pass On and trump shirts on, still say there is sizing up the field of candidates, pink careful attention to the debate. The burden is on someone, or perhaps a couple people to certainly increase the standing here. So, yes, hes the leader, the frontrunner, but you get a sense of open minds here as well, john. Jeff and ryan New Hampshire, great to see you. Joining us now, former republican congressman joe walsh, host of the white flag podcast. Also political consultant stewart stevens, he is currently an adviser to the Lincoln Project and the partner at resolute square, his upcoming new book is the conspiracy to end america, five ways my old party is thriving art democracy to autocracy. Director of Syracuse University institute for democracy journalism and citizenship. Stuart, you have seen a lot of labor days heading into primaries and General Elections. At this point, do you see any evidence that any of the republican candidates are doing anything to puncture donald trump lead . John, you remember when we first meant in 2000, i was part of the brain trust. It took a 60 point lead in New Hampshire and we lost by 19. You really have to work at. I think anything is possible. There is going to be a race here. Trump isnt going to walk away with this. The Market Demands are raised. The question is, the person in second or third, are they going to be offering an alternative vision to trump . The top three candidates in the republican nomination of support putins position in the war, all of them say they will pardon trump and the insurrectionists. There really is no difference, it is trumpism whether trump is the messenger or desantiss messenger. So, that to me is the question. Can someone who offers a different, very different view should go in the country should go, do they have a Fighting Chance for this primary . I think the answer to that is no but we will see. Congressman waltz, i dont put words in your mouth but i heard you say that the idea that its a race at all is an illusion, that is trumps party, his nomination, full stop. That said, what advice would you give to someone along the lines of whats to it was just saying . What advice would you give to Chris Christie, what advice would you give to mike pence, what advice would you give to the people who are campaigning in New Hampshire tonight to have any chance of beating trump . Its always good to be on with you and its good to be on of my friends, there is no race here. I do not want a full stop, because id like to stay a little bit more. But, im going to repeat myself. Im a broken record, so many people in this country, so many people in your business, so many people in my Business Pint for and prayed for some kind of a race. They just cannot accept the fact that this was different, thats my former party is not a party, that it is a cult, and donald trump is a cult leader. There is no race here, nobody, as to set it, nobody in the field is trying to beat trump, nobody. If you are a critic of trump, you have no shot in the party. If i were given advice to anyone wanted to run for president , it would be to go after donald trump with everything that youve got. But, if you do that in this Republican Party, you are done as a republican. I do not wear any full soft in this conversation, let me just be clear about that. Let me try to go about this a different way, the latest republican poll, and you can see it right there in thWall Street Journal, this is obviousla National Poll in the president ial elections primary Athe State By state. Nonetheless, they do paint a tough hall, a long road for any republican not named donald trump. For indictment and skipping at the big 20 hurt him, is there anything that you think could . I think you summed it up correctly. What Republican Voters in this survey are saying is that they are really treating trump like he is still the incumbent, and that hes just running for reelection, rather than treating him like you would see an ex president s who lost last reelection and tried to overturn it. That is not with these surveys suggest. The Wall Street Journal showed Desantis Crashing since the time he announced his candidy, and very slight uptick for candidates like nikki haley, nowhere in proximity to but one unknowable, and i think this is whats was sort of alluding to is that we have not seen what would happen if every gop rival held hands and said, donald trump cannot be the guy anymore. Maybe it wouldnt make any difference, maybe the numbers would continue exactly as they are, but the reason they wont do it is because nobody wants to step out and have everybody else step back. Consultants are telling them its a death wish, dont do it. But, if you add of any other Rival Support plus desantiss support, trump is actually just a solid if not more saw than he was before the criminal indictments. And, those early numbers about their party or unaffiliated voters suggest that joe biden actually has a real race on his chance for the reelection if it ends up being a trump biden contest, which i think is what were trying to see biden really ramp up the criticism on the union stuff in the economy. Were gonna get to that in the second. Stuart brought up something i want to talk to you about. He met the idea of everybody else dropping out of the. Raise a number than dropping. Ouch you mention you work for george w. Bush in 2000, i also coverage on You Workedor Romney in 2012, he wrote something where he suggested that the other guys candidates running against trump need to get out. He said, get candidates the support to agree to a dr, if d en their Pastor Nomination effectively closed. That decision should be no longer than say, february 26th, the monday following the contest in iowa, New Hampshire, nevada, and south carolina. Based on what youre seeing, do you think these candidates should think about getting out if they are in the low single just digits, and if so, when . It depends on which candidates. I want someone who will oppose donald trump. I want someone whos going to go out there and say, donald trump is a huge danger to the country and trump is a huge danger. I have tried to organize these things before, and i can say i have had 100 percent failure rate. People run for president because they want attention, they want to be on the debate stage. Campaigns never and because somebody gets tired of running, b and because you run out of money or run out of time. A lot of these campaigns are going to live off the land, a lot of them are really running for four years from now, some are running for cabinet positions, some are running for vp. Most of the people in the race arent really running for president united states, but the thing that we have to accept is donald trump represents where the Republican Party is. He didnt hijack the party, he revealed the party. That is why hes doing so well. Joe, there had been conventional wisdom that donald trump was a primary but cant win a General Election. The Wall Street Journal poll has not connect with joe biden right there. And so, do you think that needs to go out the window . Do you think trump can win a General Election . John, if we havent learned anything the last 70 years its not every aspect of conventional wisdom on a go out the window. When you pull Republican Voters, they particularly believe that trump has the best chance of beating biden. I think romney is living in la la land. This is craziness. These people just cant except none of us, i have a hard time accepting it and i come from the base of the party. The base of the party is not where mitt romney is, its where trump is. Stuarts rates. A candidate should come out and said, donald trump is an existential threat to th e democracy, because he is. If you say that as a republican today, you are down as a republican. I think the country needs to understand that. Joe walsh, look more into speaking with you much more on the subject in the future. Next, on patrol Ukrainian Drone teams searching for targets, plus the impact the new Defense Minister could have, and with the possibility of north korea supplying arms to russia could mean on the battlefield. Later, one of musics greatest, james taylor on the passing of the truly original, completely repressive all, and sadly irreplaceable Jimmy Buffett. Chevy silverado has what it takes to do it all. With up to 13 camera views. And the z71 offroad package. You ok . Yeah. Any truck can help you make a living. This one helps you build a life. Chevy silverado. Ma, ma, ma clears throat for fast sore throat relief, try Vicks Vapocool drops. With two times more menthol per drop, and powerful vicks vapors to vaporize sore throat pain. Vicks vapocool drops. Vaporize sore throat pain. sometimes, all the tenacity and grit in the world. Cant overcome the boundaries we face. so Morgan Stanley is partnering with the Womens Tennis Association to remove them. because this game is for everyone. when you find your reason to go on, let it pull you past the doubt. Past the pain, and past your limits. No matter what, we go on. Biofreeze they fell in love with the irresistible scent. Huh, huh, so did their dog roger. Gain scent beads keep even the stinkiest Stuff Smelling fresh. New developments, today, ukraines president Volodymyr Zelenskyy fired his Defense Minister and nominated a replacement. Well talk about it in a moment, with the retired army general. Also, a rare trip out of the country for kim jongun. Hes headed for russia this month. The north korean dictatorship expected to meet expecting to use russians in ukraine. First of, all a rare look at the front line in ukraines growing drone war against russian invaders. Cnns melissa bell reports. [speaking in a nonenglish language] Ukraines Security Service preparing for a raid across enemy lines. In a war of artillery, drones and plenty of creativity. It looks almost like a toy. It is a chinese toy with some innovations and some magic. Hubert del enough magic that this especially may drone will travel far beyond the zaporizhzhia front line. In search of a Russian Air Defense system, it flies a deep into Enemy Territory towards a town that is one of the main objectives of the southern counteroffensive. [speaking in a nonenglish language] at the other end of the, phone and watching the same screen, a high mars unit is ready to launch. The call sign of this drones unit commander is this man. A reminder of this land when it was still ukrainian. Now, you could, see on their own it was russias weakest moment. This is the checkpoint for russians. But tonight they have been unlucky, the air Defense System that they wanted to hit is no longer there. [speaking in a nonenglish language] home for tonight, as a field 15 kilometers north of the frontline. Using only red lights to avoid detection, theyve got a Birds Eye View of the battle below and whats happening beyond. We are hunting for them, for some time and we have some results and we know where they are hiding. We know where they are moving and its about time just to find them. And each time it flies, the Drone Records precious information, the state of russian defenses, vehicles and systems being moved. Even if tonight, a Russian Air Defense system and its 4 to 5 officers were unbeknownst to them, spared. Are you disappointed . No, we are not disappointed, this is our service. It is our work. And we will continue to do it. Until, he says, every last inch of ukrainian territory has been freed. However long that takes. And melissa bell joins us now. Melissa, what kind of effect are these drones having on the counter Offensive Mark . Well, the play an extremely Important Role for the ukrainians, of course a surveillance role. But also an attack role. And this drone, tonight, that night ended up doing surveillance. Its plan had been to be at the head of the high marbling launched. Its used effectively, but theyve been used by both sides. And that makes things extremely difficult. And now you saw how painstaking and slow that operation, was in the end not yielding very much apart from Surveillance Information but imagine on that front line, youve been speaking with some of the soldiers, john, that have been responsible bowl for the recap. Consider it a huge strategic gain for the southern counteroffensive here in ukraine. A small piece of territory. But a big gauge. And what they explain to us is really that this was apocalyptic scenes and the terrain is extremely flat, and open you have very little coverage. And one of them described the skies being blackwood drones. Ukrainian, drones russian drones, attack drones and kamikaze drones that will follow you and take you out in obliterate to. The sky, black with drones. Melissa bell, you and your team, please stay state. Thank you. Joining us, now cnn Military Analyst and retired army Three Star General, mark hertling. General, how significant with a meeting between kim jongun and love Vladimir Putin b . And what kind of effect do you think an arms deal between north korea might have a battlefield on ukraine . Interesting today, based on developments of the Defense Ministers initial visit to ukraine, or im sorry to north korea is going to be interesting. I dont think it will be as important as many people are saying that it will be. Certainly, putin will be able to get a lot of artillery ammunition, which is what he craves. And, at the same time he is willing to trade off a lot of technology and having to do with Ballistic Missiles and nuclear strikes. So what you are seeing is a quid pro quo between two leaders that are both considered pariahs on the world stage. And they have no one else to turn to. China has relegated north korea to someone they dont want to deal with. Same thing true with putin. Putin has iran and china, potentially now as partners and allies but hes not getting much from both of those because theyve been intimidated. And we will see that what comes of this and what the u. S. Government and nato may do against korea to advertise some of the things that they might be doing and giving up intelligence to show the world what theyre doing in violation of many you and mandates. So they will both be able to try to get a partnership solid, but i dont think its going to have much of an effect on the ukrainian battlefield. There is also this new, probably, new Ukrainian Defense minister. Hes reportedly been involved in prisoner of war exchanges, he serves in the black sea grain initiative. Hes also a crimean tartar. How do you see him feeding into the broader ukrainian counter offensive . It is interesting with him because i think that the Minister Reznikov its the one being relieved right now, hes been the Defense Minister for a couple of years the entire time of the operation. The illegal russian invasion of ukraine. He is tired. He also has unfortunately with some of the chapter effects of corruption within the ukrainian government. And this is what a lot of americans dont know about. John when i was in, europe we had some real problems with dealing with ukrainians because they were corrupt, within many operations. In the balkans, and in iraq. The military itself has overcome that. But some of the government officials have not. Mr. Zelenskyy did not have much of a choice, other than to relieve and now the new Defense Minister, who will likely be the new Defense Minister, as you, said he is a crimean tartar. And his family was exiled to uzbekistan before he was born. So he has a feeling, and a patriotism for ukraine and he understands what russia has done in terms of occupying the territory of crimea. He went back there to become the cochair of something called the crimean platform initiative. And he was involved in highlevel negotiations for the release of prisoners from the 2014 war. So i think that he is going to be a good replacement for the Minister Of Defense in the near future. And you add with, that the fact that he is a muslim. And he was part of ukraines delegations with a saudi arabia to bring the early stages of the Peace Project going. So i think this is, across the board, gives ukraine a fresh base ministry. And also lives up to zelenskyys promise to eliminate corruption inside of ukraine. Certainly has a impressive resume. General hertling, thank you so much. Thank you. A quick, note about someones name who brought Hope To Americans in captivity overseas, and whose Negotiating Talent helped bring them home. Former new mexico governor, and ambassador to the united nations, bill richardson, who died over the weekend. He helped secure the release of dozens of americans over the years. Served some of the worst places imaginable. Bill richardson was 75. Just ahead, Law Enforcement still on the hunt for escaped inmate who they turn to for help. Thats next. 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Cnn senior Law Enforcement, Andrew Mackay reports what. Andy, what does your gut tell you about how this guy has been able to evade Law Enforcement for five days . Especially if he still in the area . Don, my sense of this is that this was likely an escape of opportunity. And so not the result of a long term planning, working with the confederate, developing assistance from inside or outside the facility. It was rather an opportunity presented itself in this chyron. If that is the case, right now, he finds himself without money, without transportation, without any sort of communication devices, telephone, internet, anything like that. No food, no shelter. So that would explain why he has not been able to get a very far away from the prison. It also explains why hes been able to evade Law Enforcement in a more technical way. We put surveillance on known associates, family members, residences. And you listen to phone lines and hope that the contact would be made in an effort to find assistance, money and transportation. He probably isnt capable of doing that right now. But hes living off the land, in the heavily wooded area, surrounded by private wedges dances on massive pieces of property. And hes just living from minute to minute. Does the search get harder with passing days . Or does it get more likely hell make a mistake, a slip up. I think both of those things can be true. Typically, as the days go on it gets harder and harder, because thats built around the assumption that the escapees are continuing to move further, further away in a direction but we dont know. This guy, because you had four sightings in the same area and the last few days, they can be pretty confident that he is still in the area. And then the mistake factor weighs in. If he picks the wrong house to try to break into or puts down and is probably moving at night and then sleeping during the day, puts down to sleep and just happens to come across by Law Enforcement or others, theres certain mistakes can bring an end to this thing. What about the message from the mother thats being played from speakers . How much of a different skin Something Like that make . What do you think about the decision to try it . My guess john is that they tried it because why not . It doesnt cost them anything and they have those patrol cars and helicopters out there anyway. They are banking on the chance that this young man is so desperate, and hungry and sleeping out in the wood, getting devoured by bugs and suffering from the heat that it becomes so desperate that maybe the sound of the mothers voice can convince him to give up. The opposite is also probably true. Hes so desperate to stay away that he just got sentenced to spend the rest of his life, and that if hes gonna do anything humanly possible to get away. Makes it very dangerous for those living in the area. Andrew mccabe, thank you very much for being with us. Thanks john. Just ahead, the escape from burning man. And all that mud. It could be a sign that your digestive system isnt at its best. Metamucil gummies make it easy to get the fiber you need. Promoting your Digestive Health for a better you. Metamucil gummies. The easy way to get your daily fiber. When i was diagnosed with hiv, i didnt know who i would be. But here i am. Being me. Keep being you. And ask your Healthcare Provider about the number one prescribed hiv treatment, biktarvy. Biktarvy is a complete, onepill, onceaday treatment used for hiv in many people whether youre 18 or 80. 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A lot of online cheering by people who really like to mark The Burning Man Festival. Dry weather allowed thousands to finally get their trucks and rvs moving. And leave. Camila bernal has the story of how burning man became a money mess. Its a real sloppy mess out there. Tens of thousands of people, stuck at burning man in the nevada state over the weekend after heavy rains made a mess of the dirt roads. We drove out and got stuck. And made one bad decision. It was up to them. Hundreds of cars ended up stranded on roads, leading out of the Black Rock Desert in the northwestern part of the state. Everything was shut down, getting out was a nightmare. Paul romero, and the wife left mauis deposition for what was supposed to be a relaxing honeymoon. It became a mini disaster for a lot of people, it was impossible to function. Impossible to move around. Impossible to communicate. The caps became pretty much destroyed. Less than an inch of water fell over 1 24 hour period from friday to saturday. So much water. We organizers of the weeklong festival asked attendees to shelter in place to conserve food, water and feel. Its actually been pretty festive. Everybodys second of the time. But not everybody. Some socalled burners say the mood was festive until supplies started running out. Everybody took their shoots, off started dancing in the, mud it was great. And then the reality sunken that we couldnt leave. There was one death over the weekend, which Authorities Say is not weather related. No serious injuries have been reported. Everybody was helping each other out. The d day and a few others including comedian chris rock, managed to walk out and hitch arrived. He walked up to this awesome butler. It was a challenge, but a highlight to the whole trip. Tens of thousands are now slowly inching their way out of the event grounds. And the man burn, and a noir miss it has been delayed until tonight. Making this year, still an epic event. It is kind of a bonding thing. This is going to be one of those years where you look back and you, say i was there in 2023. And Camilla Bernal joins us, now for the site of The Burning Man Festival in nevada. So how long has it been taking people to get out . Is there a long line . A very long line. Organizer staying on average, five hours. And it could be more. I talk to one, man he told me that he was in that line and decided that he was just going to watch because it was a lot quicker. Organizers telling people not to walk and to be patient. Theyre also saying that the last check, 54,000 people were still here in the desert and a lot of them staying for the burn. But whether we leave today or whether you leave tomorrow you are going to be in this along a line and it is normal to wait a long time to leave the festival. But this time around people leaving with a lot more mud, and of course very happy to finally be out after two very difficult days john. All right camila bernal, keep us posted. Appreciated. Next, james taylor remembers his longtime friend, and fellow sailor. We Chevy Silverado has what it takes to do it all. With up to 13 camera views. And the z71 offroad package. You ok . Yeah. Any truck can help you make a living. This one helps you build a life. Chevy silverado. That grimy film on your teeth . Dr. G . Its actually the buildup of Plaque Bacteria which can cause cavities. Most toothpastes quit working in minutes. But crest prohealths antibacterial fluoride protects all day. It stops cavities before they start. Crest. My brain. So i choose new neuriva ultra. Unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, including Mental Alertness from one serving. To help keep me sharp. Try new neuriva ultra. Think bigger. I may be known for my legendary football career, but truth is, i love a bunch of sports. The only trouble is knowing where to find them. Thats why i got xfinity. So, i can easily find and watch whatever sport im into all in one place without missing a thing. Even if its football, australian football, or football football. In a word its fitzcredible. I got to trademark that one. This season, eligible Xfinity Rewards Members can get up to 100 off Nfl Sunday Ticket from youtube. Sign up for Xfinity Rewards now. And then philip musicians continue to share tribute to Jimmy Buffett who died friday from skin cancer, he was 76. Last night at a concert on long island, james taylor saying his song mexico in honor of his longtime friend. So we want to dedicate this song to him. He covered this song of mine, one of 2 songs of mine that jimmy covered its just my favorite, ever. This is. He unbuffered saying that same song onstage together a decade ago embossed. Take a look. James taylor joins me tonight. James, thank you so much for talking to us tonight. Im sorry its under these circumstances. What went through your mind when you heard your friend Jimmy Buffett had died . Well, i was actually on my way down to long island, and i was hoping to visit. What threw went through my mind is it was too late. You first got to know him. I was reading this lovely piece that you wrote for rolling style. One of the first time you met him in person was in the early 70s sailing. You mentioned long island. I think this was Marthas Vineyard where you first met him. When you first met him, what were your impressions . Well, his reputation preceded him. He was we had a lot in common, we knew a lot of people in common, and you know, he was just known in the sailing community. Thats where his popularity started among people on their boats and that was some how somewhere near the heart of his sort of zeitgeist, was that Sailing World and the caribbean, and the sea. Thats where he was happiest, and he kept coming back to it. We are looking at pictures of the 2 of you singing it together, and you did perform over the years. What do you think made him so special to audiences . It was his generosity of spirit, and the degree to which he shared his unbelievable joy at being who he was, where he was, with his audience. He loved being Jimmy Buffett, and he loved living that life. He loved being jeff berry buffet. People would go to the concerts, people loved that margaritaville lifestyle. Was he the same in person, in real life as people i think he wanted to be, that he salty him audige . Yes, to a remarkable extent he was the person that he, support of, offered up as his character. He was just exuberant and energetic and adventurous, always looking to push the envelope and, you know, he was a pilot, he was a surfer, he, was all of those things. You know, obviously he wasnt an abandoned, dissipated part or all the time because he definitely was into control. How did he change over the years . I have to believe that the life of Jimmy Buffett in the early 1970s versus the last ten years had to be different. It is amazing how little he changed, really. I think he just applied that kind of enthusiasm and generosity of spirit to pretty much everything he did. Business, or performing, or just any of the enterprises. The books that you wrote, his musical, everything that he did. I think of him as a, and i think of myself also, as a band leader. And he loved that Musical Community that he, basically, had assembled around him. And that, you know, he just loved being with them, being onstage with them, and he always got the sense that he was having a great time. You said you are headed to long island and you thought you might get a chance to see him. I am so sorry that you didnt. What would you have said to him had you had a chance to see him one last time . I have no idea. I dont know. Good to see you, man. I am sure it would have been good to see him because i think, by and large, it must have always been good to see Jimmy Buffett. I know it was good to see him when i went to his shows. James taylor, thanks so much for being with us, we really appreciate your time, sorry for a loss. Thank you john. Sorry for all of our loss. Next, the legacy of another music legend. The preview of the cnn film Little Richard i. M. Everything and he enters the conversation with a filmmaker. Lone. If you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks, make sure you have Downy Unstopables inwash scent boosters. When you find your reason to go on, let it pull you past the doubt. Past the pain, and past your limits. No matter what, we go on. Biofreeze how can you sleep on such a firm setting . Gab, mine is almost the same as yours. Almost is just another word for not as good as mine. 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Richard woodwork that audience, get them up, out of their seats, swaying, shouting, waving their arms. All right coal and responding stuff. So 30 days, i sought Little Richard 30 times. Later on i realized, like, he was doing church in a theater, basically. A quick preview of Little Richard i am everything, again just moments away. Recently anderson spoke with the filmmaker lisa cortez. Here is the conversation. What was it about Little Richard that got you interested in doing this . When richard passed away in spring of 2020, it is the pandemic, we are all at home eating chips and dip and i realized that there had been no documentary on this person. Because i wanted to learn more. And i also felt that, as i continued to work on the film, it became increasingly important to make certain that all of our histories were told with depth and complexity at a time when, increasingly, there are many places that want to, especially, tamp down the telling of black history. Its so interesting about Little Richard, and this really comes out in the film, you know when somebody dies Everybody Knows Little Richard, they know tuttifrutti, they know sally, they think they know him, but when you start to scratch away you realize that, you talk about this complexity. He was incredibly complex character. You know, Little Richard is stating at this moment in history, in 1955, he comes on the scene with tuttifrutti and it is also the same year that emmett till is killed. It is a time post world war ii of aspiration and Great Movement of change. Its a growth of the teenager and here comes a lack, unapologetically loud rocker, disrupting the stillness and bringing this rebellious spirit that brings so much joy, but it also challenges people, to. How is he able to do that in the jim crow south . Well, it is a really good question. , but there has been a lot of other gender non conforming artists who are and out. Liberace is having hits in the 40s. If you look at american history, there has been gatherings of a drag kings and drag queens that go back to the victorian times. In the 1920s in harlem there were huge drag balls. They were covered in papers, it was very public. Americans are not as conservative as we oftentimes want to think. And yet, he also, i mean he had white audiences, sometimes his audiences were integrated in areas where that was not allowed. He liked to say that he broke down segregation. Well, i dont know if we can go that far. But, there is something about being in spaces that have only been strictly black for strictly white where young people come together and find this commonality through the music. You also forget how big he was. The beatles opened for him for a while. He brought them to homberg, he introduced billy preston, some call the fifth beetle, the Rolling Stones or a bar band and opened for him for 30 days. For 30 days . Yes. Mick jagger is really fantastic in this film, explaining what he was able to learn from observing richard 30 days in a row. Thats interesting. You look at prince and Little Richard, i mean you see sort of things that prince was boring from Little Richard. There is that performance, there is the fashion, there is the kind of unabashed sexuality on display with your lyrics, and i would like to pause it that Little Richards dna continues, it continues with artists like little naz acts, or saucy santana, it continues for people who are nonconforming, and interspace now have greater freedom to present their full selves. Did he, was the end of his life, his career, did he have money . How was his and . Well, his end was wit