Pm mitsotakis greece went through a lot. A very a very painful period. We will never, ever relive these times. Francine Kyriakos Mitsotakis, the greek Prime Minister. Many have credited him for the transformation of the economy, from the basket case of europe to one of europes top economic performers. In this episode of leaders with lacqua, Kyriakos Mitsotakis sets out plans and objectives for the next four years. He tells me how he wants to restore greeces Investment Grade status, lower inequality, and continue the fight against populism. Pm mitsotakis we prevailed through politics of competence and reason. Removed the party towards the political center. There is a future beyond populism and we have proven that if you run a competent government, you can make it possible to get reelected. Francine he also speaks candidly about his push to legalize samesex marriage and balance booming tourism with the need to protect his countrys natural beauty. Pm mitsotakis there are parts of greece that have reached saturation point. If we have to place restrictions, we will. Francine my conversation with Kyriakos Mitsotakis next on leaders with lacqua. Prime minister, you have a second mandate from the greek people. What is your intention on how that will unfold in the coming years . Pm mitsotakis first of all, i am very happy, honored and proud to be able to secure a second mandate. We actually got a higher share of the vote than we did in 2019, something unusual for an incumbent government in these difficult times. I want to make sure i use this strong mandate to drive forward an aggressive reform agenda and make sure greece makes up for the lost ground and converges with europe at a fast pace. High growth rate is my number one priority. This would give us fiscal space to drive through important changes in health, education and other policies. Areas i care about. Francine you are confident you will get Investment Grade. When you get Investment Grade, what does that mean . What does that change in terms of possible extra investment coming into the country . Pm mitsotakis i think it changes lots of things. There is currently a lot of capital that cannot invest in greece, simply because we are not Investment Grade. As you know, we are already trading as if we are an Investment Grade country, but we also need the official stamp of approval by the rating agencies. I think it will further lower our cost of borrowing which is important in a high interest environment. We have been able to defy the trend. The Greek Economy will grow significantly in 2023 and this is giving us the fiscal space to further reduce our debt. We will be able, before the end of the year, to actually repay ahead of time r. G. Fla facility and this will send a positive signal to the markets that not only are we focused on growth, but we want to make sure our debt to gdp ratio continues to decline at a very rapid pace. Francine it is a promise to investors. Pm mitsotakis yes, it is a commitment to investors. We will accelerate the reforms and we will make sure that whatever reforms we implement will be done in such a way not to compromise our countrys fiscal position. Greece went through a lot, a very painful period. We will never, ever relive these difficult times, but i think we have proven you can drive highgrowth, you can reasonably reduce taxes while maintaining healthy public finances and i do expect our debt to continue to decline significantly. And this will give us the physical space to make sure that we ensure markets that we are serious in repaying our debt ahead of time. Francine how difficult is it to do this with a costofliving crisis . Pm mitsotakis the costofliving crisis is very concerning to us and, of course, it has hit the poorer segments of society disproportionately hard. Two points, first of all we have lower inflation than most European Countries. I think we were successful in using targeted measures to help those in greater greater need. We resisted the temptation to lower taxes and im happy to see that studies are coming out that point out the fact that lowering vat does not lead to a reduction in inflation. This gives us fiscal space to use targeted measures. We will most probably continue these when it comes to the supermarket, we are concerned about food prices. I prefer a direct Cash Transfer to more vulnerable greeks to help them with their supermarket. Rather than a horizontal cut in vat which would drain our public finances and would not be effective in terms of containing inflation. Francine when do you expect inflation i dont know what this has to do with the war in ukraine, but when do you expect food inflation to come down . Pm mitsotakis it has been persistent. I wish i had a crystal ball but what i do know is that it is coming down faster than other European Countries, although it is still an area of concern and of course, Interest Rate policies are not driven by us. We have to adjust. It is good news that, for example, in greece, Consumer Confidence in pmi has been growing, whereas the rest of europe has been on a downward trend, so we seem to be defying the trend. Not only will we avoid recession but we will grow by more than 2 . This year, which given the circumstances, i would say is pretty good. Francine Prime Minister, if you look at your opposition, you have the rise of three far right parties. What can you tell us about them . Are they prorussia . Pm mitsotakis first of all, we have a comfortable majority in parliament and we have a 23 gap from the opposition. The left series suffered strategic defeat in the elections and im happy because essentially, we prevailed through politics of competence, reason. We moved the party toward the political center, so there is a future beyond populism and we have proven that if you run a competent government, you can make it possible to get reelected. This is a good message for everyone fighting against populists, whether from the left or the right. As far as the extreme right, we have three small parties in parliament, a 3 threshold. It manages to be right above that. In total, it is probably 12 or 13 of the electorate. For two of these parties, we have no idea what they stand for. It will make parliament probably louder and more i dont know if it is going to be more interesting, but the extreme right is not organized in the way that it is in other countries and we certainly do not need the extreme right to govern. We managed to govern on our own, this was always a strategic choice. By moving the party to the center, we want to make sure we attract enough people to have an absolute majority. We were able to do that. So these are fringe parties, yes. Some of them are prorussia. Not very explicitly, but indirectly. But they are not a big factor in greek politics. Francine you dont think its a warning of something to come, either for other European Countries pm mitsotakis i always take the grievances of people who vote for protest parties seriously. It is true that some people feel marginalized, they feel threatened, they feel that the world is moving at a faster pace and they are being left behind. In greece, because we went through a crisis, it has been a i think there has been a process of Greek Society really maturing and maybe actually in terms of political development, leapfrogging what is happening in many other European Countries. So we want a second mandate, which is Even Stronger politically than the first one. I think this says something about Greek Society. And in that sense, it gives the necessary political predictability to investors, because i always said you need two terms to do a big transformation. I think investors are looking at greece and they are looking at four years until the next national election, a stable government, a safe pair of hands. Im sure they like what they see in terms of politics of the country. Francine up next, tourism accounts for about a fifth of greeces economy, but as visitors flock to the country and the beautiful islands, the Prime Minister is at pains to make sure he does not trade nature for shortterm profit. Pm mitsotakis i want to make sure in five years from now, we will not have sacrificed the beauty of our Natural Environment at the interest of a rapid growth. Francine the relationship between the United States is complex, strained by comments from washington that it wants to derisk itself from the worlds secondlargest economy. How should a european nation like greece handle beijing . I continue the conversation with the Prime Minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis. Prime minister, what kind of relationship do you want with china . Pm mitsotakis i frame our relationship with china within the context of the European Union as a whole. We can work with china. But they are also a competitor, a rival, on many other issues. I have been advocating for a comprehensive european approach visavis china, so we do not want to decouple and frankly, we cannot decouple, but we do want to derisk. This means a more measured and more intelligent approach visavis china, which is also relevant for us. And china is an important market for agricultural products. For example, it could be an important market in terms of bringing in chinese tourists. It is less important as a source of capital. For example, when you look at big Infrastructure Projects and how we have funded them over the past years, no capital practically directly came from china. But we will certainly align our policy with the overall european approach when it comes to china. Francine when you say it is impossible to decouple, is that because the codependency is big on certain chips and manufacturing . Pm mitsotakis in a globalized economy im not so much talking about the Greek Economy, the Global Economy is a reality. We want more independence of supply chains but there is a limit to how much we can do that. Francine what do you worry most about your economy in greece . When you look at tourism, it is booming but it means some of the islands are overcrowded. Is there something you can do . Pm mitsotakis thank you for asking this question because i want to make sure five years from now, we will not have sacrificed the beauty of our Natural Environment at the interest of a rapid growth. So that is why im focusing on sustainable growth. Thats why i will always push for quality over quantity. Very strict in terms of standards. We are actually looking at our local and regional sort of planning legislation across the country to make sure we know exactly what we can build and where we can build it. There are parts of greece which have reached saturation points, and if we have to place restrictions, we will, in order to protect, especially islands, which are more sensitive. Francine does that look like a tax . If you go on an island . Pm mitsotakis in terms of building, there is only so much we can build on certain islands. I do not want to single them out. We are not there in terms of thinking of taxes. That is not something currently in the cards. I am more concerned with how many people we can get on an island and make sure the the island is still functioning, but also for tourists. I do want them to have a positive experience because at the end of the day, when something is overcrowded, people do not appreciate it. It is not rocket science. We are planning to make sure when you have cruise ships they dont have to come at the same time. Manage the berths in a smarter way to get more cruise ships but also so the island does not overflow with visitors throughout the day. Francinew much time are you going to spend tackling tax evasion . Pm mitsotakis a lot because this is an important issue, not just a question of equity, but making sure we have additional revenues for our schools or our health care system. Weve made Good Progress in terms of reducing the vat gap. We have been diligent in terms of making electronic transactions more attractive. Covid helped us in that direction and we saw the tangible results. And as we sort of digitized the entire supply chain, make it also easier for tax authorities to be more targeted and smarter in terms of going after tax evasion. For me, this is a big priority. Francine are you frustrated that it was not as fast as you thought it would . Pm mitsotakis yes, but in terms of the vat gap, we have made Good Progress. We had a legacy of tax evasion, but this is also something that is very much related to collective trust. If people feel that they get quality public services, they will be more inclined to pay their taxes. But we have also proven that if you lower taxes, in an economy that has sort of a tradition of tax evasion, it can bring in more revenues. Not true always for all countries. In our case, it was very much true. So our strategy of gradually lowering taxes has actually worked and brought in more revenue. Francine up next, Prime Minister mitsotakis on why pushing for lgbtq rights is one of his priorities. Pm mitsotakis homosexual people could not even give blood before we came into power. We still had horrible conversion therapies, which were technically legal, for gay teenagers. I mean really, we banned all of that and we will continue to implement our strategies. Francine greece is one of the main routes to the european for migrants from asia and africa. In june hundreds died or were lost at sea when a fishing vessel crowded with asylumseekers capsized off the coast of greece. I spoke to the Prime Minister about the tragedy. Prime minister, coast guards of course have not been portrayed in a positive light recently because of migrant boats that have sank. Are you taking action to make sure that does not happen again . Pm mitsotakis look, we have been implementing a migration strategy that i have always described as tough and fair. Our number one priority is for people not to drown at sea, but also to protect our borders. My theory is simple, the less people you have at sea, the less likelihood you will have a tragedy like the one the unfolded in International Waters off the greek coast. We have been able to make the strategy work in the eastern, we have broken the smugglers networks. It is very unfair when i look at, for example, ngos are part of the international press, they place emphasis on the coast guard but do not talk about the smugglers who put these desperate people on a boat that was obviously not seaworthy. Every time there is an incident, there is always an investigation and even regarding this tragedy, there is an ongoing judicial investigation. Obviously, i cannot comment on it, but pointing the finger at the coast guard, theyve saved tens of thousands of people. Its unfair, unjust and wrong as a strategy because at the end of the day, what we do not want is a poor strategy. We have to be vigilant in protecting our borders but we also need legal pathways, either for humanitarian reasons, refugees, or economic migrants. One of our goals in greece is to sort of expand the labor market participation. And when i look at certain jobs, for example in the agricultural sector, we have difficulties finding people to actually do these jobs. And i would much more prefer and we are already putting in place these types of programs. For example, to have an arrangement with countries such as egypt or bangladesh, where we offer work visas for people to legally work here, and they can work and will be insured. They dont need to embark on a dangerous trip. But we will control the policy. We cannot let this policy be controlled by smugglers. Francine do you feel let down by the European Union . Should they be helping you more in trying to deal with the situation and also the refugee camps . Pm mitsotakis to be honest, first of all, it is changing its approach. The European Council is placing more emphasis on migration, border management. They have funded a lot of our camps. If you go to the islands you will see ultra modern facilities. Five years ago, we had the horror under a socialist government which was supposedly progressive and cared about the human conditions of migrants. So there has been support by the European Union. Yes, i would like them to be bolder, and also openly finance barriers, or what we call fences, but other measures to help us protect our border. And of course, you know, we are also working with frontex. It is not an ngo. Some people think they should be, but they should not be an ngo. It is a Border Protection unit, heavily sort of funded by the European Union. And we are always working with frontex. Whenever issues arise, we always try to cooperate and resolve them. Francine has there been a change in policy on refugees that you see or again pm mitsotakis there has been a gradual change in policy at the level of the council which is most welcomed. We love a lot about it. To make sure that we place the external dimension of migration front and center, because we are talking about the internal dimension, how do we move people when they enter the European Union and who should be responsible . For example, for welcoming. Are we going to have quotas . These are difficult topics but unless we reduce the number of people who enter illegally, we will not be able to address this problem. Again, this is not sufficient. We need to offer legal pathways and to be effective when it comes to returns. Francine youve done work on lgbtq rights. How much will that continue . Pm mitsotakis it will continue. We have an lgbtq equality strategy that we are putting in place. Its a work in progress but we are happy about some of our initiatives, which also mean a lot to me. Homosexual people could not even give blood before we came into power. We still had horrible conversion therapies, which were technically legal, for gay teenagers. I mean, really we would ban all of that and continue to implement our strategies longterm. It is a longterm project. But i think Greek Society is much more ready and much more mature. Its interesting that all of these initiatives have been launched by a centerright government and not by the previous government, which theoretically belonged to the left. This is also testimony to the fact that we are a truly progressive government. Francine will you only reach true equality when you have samesex marriage . Pm mitsotakis it will happen at some point. It is part of our strategy. It is a work in progress. We have civil union already and, at some point, you know, this strategy will come to its end. Francine how would you describe yourself as a leader, what kind of leader . You have delivered on a lot of your goals. You have done better than expected in the polls. What drives you . Pm mitsotakis i dont like so much to talk about myself. I would really like to look at greece after eight years and say yes, we have made big changes. This is not just about management, not just playing defense. It is about changing the country. This country, if you look at its 200 year history, has gone through big spells were changes happened. And i hope that i can make my own contribution in making sure that we completely break out of this sort of spell that really dragged us towards essentially the bottom during the second decade of the 21st century. We lost 25 of our gdp, which was the biggest contraction since the Second World War in any country. But it is an opportunity to really change the country and essentially, what i would like to do is raise the forces. His release creative forces. Greeks are incredibly talented. I want them to be able to prosper. Francine what is your biggest dream for greece . Pm mitsotakis to become a protagonist, a global protagonist in those areas where we can be a protagonist. And to be able to catch up in those areas where we are still laggards. And to address what i would consider to be the three big challenges, which is the environment, the digital challenge, the opportunities and the threats of ai, but for me, the most important challenge is inequality. Income inequality. At the end of the day, i want to look at the growth that we delivered and i would be happy if i see less inequality rather than more. Its always a risk in rapidly growing economies, that you have more inequality. We have been able to lower inequality over the past four years, because we have actively supported those in need. At the end of the day, its about giving opportunity to those who are less privileged. This is what really excites me and makes me work harder when i feel tired. Francine do you think that is why people voted for you or is it because they did not have a real alternative . Pm mitsotakis i think maybe in 2019, people voted for us because they were fed up with the previous government. In this election, im pretty sure people voted for us because they bought into our story and vision for the future. Again, it is unusual to see this level of support in a western democracy, a multiparty system. So i think they placed their trust in us and we have to reciprocate. So a big victory, it gives us cause for celebration. That will probably last for hours, rather than days. Then suddenly you have the weight of peoples expectations on your shoulders, the date of the weight of your office on your shoulders, and you tell yourself the people have given you a mandate for big change and you will deliver. Francine thank you for your time. Pm mitsotakis thank you so much. Much. D Canyon University specializes in helping you fit a masters degree in education into your busy day. Your Graduation Team led by your own gcu counselor provides you with the personal support you need to succeed find your purpose. jennifer sit gcu. 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