Fixed. But ok. Just leave it this way. All right. I dont consider myself a journalist. And nobody else would consider myself a journalist. I began to take on the life of being an interviewer, even though i have a day job of running a private equity firm. How do you define leadership . What is it that makes somebody tick . Aliko dangote is widely known to be the wealthiest man in africa. So is that a title you are proud to have, or is that one where you get so many people calling you for money you wish you were not the wealthiest man in africa . Aliko well, first of all, thank you very much, david. It is great to be here and seeing you today. Well, you know, when they call you the wealthiest person in africa, it comes with a lot of baggage. Of course, there are so many demands. People come up with different demands. But it is good, because i like to give back to the society. David so right now, you are involved in many philanthropic endeavors in africa and elsewhere. Lets go through some of them before we go to how you actually made all of this money. Recently, you had an event in new york, where we are now, with mo ibrahim, also a wealthy african businessperson, and bill gates, in which you provided a fair amount of money for the African Center in new york, in harlem. What is the African Center, and why did you do that . Aliko well, we did the African Center idea, it started with Chelsea Clinton and molly mo ibrahim, and halima, my daughter. My daughter joined them later. We realized that we need to make this African Center a reality to be able to project africa in a better light. Bring africa to the rest of the world. Especially when you look at the subject of every september, we have the United Nations general assembly, where the entire world converges in new york. And what we want to do is to tell the world the real narrative of africa and tell the rest of the world what africa is about. It has to do with policy, business, and culture. You know because, sometimes, you mean, especially americans, they do not really understand much about africa. Somebody will say, africans, what kind of language do you speak . For example, in africa, we speak about 2,000 different languages. David thats a lot. Aliko thats a lot. David so right now, one of the big problems in africa is health. You have been involved in trying to eradicate polio in nigeria, along with bill gates and his foundation. What is the progress that you have made today . Aliko i think we have done quite a lot. The progress has been very, very tremendous. In the last three years, we havent had any wild virus of polio. Hopefully, when we work between now and the next six months, by april, we will be satisfied to be a poliofree country. Which means the entire african continent will be poliofree. David one of the things you are doing in the philanthropic world is building a hospital in nigeria. Why do you feel a need to build a new hospital . Aliko i feel we need to build a worldclass hospital, because, when you look at it in nigeria, we spend a lot of money where people go abroad for medical checkups, for medical operations. What you are trying to do is to give hope to the population. To say, look, you dont need to travel abroad. We will be able to treat you there. David now for those who may not be familiar with africa, nigeria is the most populous country in africa. Is that right . Aliko it is. David and it is growing at a very large rate, in terms of its population. Aliko about 3 . David so, at the current rate, at some point, more people will be in nigeria than the United States. Aliko well, by 2050, we will be at about 450 million population. And i am sure we will be way ahead of the states. We will be about number three, after china and india. Then he will be nigeria. David by 2050, you could be the thirdbiggest country in the world by population, at the Current Population growth rate. Does that make you nervous about whether nigeria can house and feed all these people . Aliko it does not really make me nervous. Because we have massive arable land. We have a lot of water. We have, you know, the right climate. So when you look at it, the major contributors of our gdp in nigeria is agriculture. We need to change from the normal oilreliance economy to agriculture and manufacturing. David nigeria is known, as well, for having large oil deposits. Is that a major contributor to the nigerian economy . Is that the major source of wealth in nigeria . Aliko it may be a major source, but it contributes 90 of the foreign exchange, you know, that we have. Also, 60 of the governments revenue is also coming from the oil. But i think the government is doing quite a lot to try to diversify the economy. By trying to structure their own taxes, because we need to make more money from the taxes. The tax generation in nigeria is a bit low, so i think the government is working very hard to adjust all these. David as the wealthiest man in africa and the wealthiest man in nigeria, do you get pressure to run for Political Office yourself . Would you like to be president of nigeria . Aliko i think i am doing a great job where i am right now. So i do not think i need to be in a political space. Some of us, we need to do lead in terms of the trajectory of developing africa through the business, not through the political leadership. David lets talk about how you made this amount of money, which is, by far, the largest amount of money that any individual has in africa. So you came from a wealthy family or not a wealthy family . Aliko i came from a wealthy family. My late greatgrandfather, in the 1940s, was actually the richest west african. My late grandfather was one of the wealthiest nigerians. The family name is dangote. That is from my maternal side. My father, too, was fairly rich, in business and also in politics. But you know, david, one thing i am very, very proud of is i did not inherit any money from my father. I built everything from scratch to where i am. David your father died when you were relatively young. Aliko yeah, he died when i was eight years old. David so he didnt leave, in his will, a large amount of money for you . Aliko well, he left in the will but whatever i inherited from him, which means in assets, i would give that to charities since then. David so did you go to college in nigeria . Aliko no, i went in egypt. David egypt, alright. What did you study . Aliko business. David you graduated at what age . Aliko i graduated at about 20 years old. David so you went back from egypt to nigeria . Aliko yes, i went back. David did you get a job . What did you do . Aliko i decided to work with my uncle for a few months. Lagos. N i went to then i started my own business buying cement. It was a very lowkey business. David you are a trader. You are not making cement, you are trading it. Aliko i was trading, at that time. David now cement is your main is not we will talk about it in a moment, but why is cement such a big part of africas wealth . Nigerias . Aliko when you look at cement, cement is what builds infrastructure. And we need a lot of infrastructure. In nigeria alone, we have about deficit about 17,000 deficit of housing. It is all over africa. So when we started cement in nigeria, we realized that the majority of it was actually imported. And that is why we went in there. It is a long story. David so you openly were trading cement. Was it hard to get the money to keep that business going . Aliko no, it was not really hard. At the time, i was buying domestically. We started importation in 1980. Actually, 1978. By 1980, we started importing sugar, rice, commodities, generally. Then, we started the cement business. Because the cement, i was doing local trading. It was not an importing business. We started the import of cement in 2000. David so you had a cement trading business. Somebody thought as far as buying it, you decided not to sell, because they wanted control. You then decided to build your own cementmanufacturing business. Is that right . Aliko yes. I decided, in 2003, to build my own cement. At that time, nigeria was only producing about 1. 8 million tons, 1. 9 million tons. We started producing 5 million tons of cement. David what year was that . Aliko this was 2000 we started building at the end of 2003. And we finished in 2007. David so now, you are the largest cement manufacturer in nigeria . Aliko we are the largest cement manufacturer in subsaharan africa. David you are building a refinery in nigeria. Why does nigeria need another refinery . Aliko when you look at the intersubsaharan africa, you know, we have only two water refineries. David so the cement business is the core of your wealth and your company. But you are now building other things. So you are building a refinery in nigeria. Why does nigeria need another refinery . Aliko well, you know, david, let me give you a little bit of history. What we have done with the group, we use businesses to build the future of the business. Like in sugar, it was the sugar profits that we used in building the cement. Now, with the cement, we are building so many things. Refineries, fertilizer, you know, Petroleum Products. And then, we are doing, also, petrochemicals. With the refinery, your question is why are we building a refinery . When you look at the entire subsaharan africa, you know, we have two working refineries. Cote divoire, which only serves 7,000 barrels a day. The other is in south africa. But the majority of these countries, almost all of the subsaharan african countries, they do not have refining capacity. So all of them, they export their oil but the import product. So we realized that the majority of the foreignexchange in nigeria was to Petroleum Product imports. David so nigeria is exporting its oil and then has to buy Refined Oil Products back, imported, right . And what you are doing is building one of the largest refineries in the world . Aliko it is the largest single line in the world. It is 650,000 barrels a day. David 650,000 barrels a day in refining capacity. So, to do that, do you have to borrow money . Where did the money come from to build that . Aliko what we are doing now, we are borrowing from the commercial banks. We are also borrowing some money from, you know, some financial institutions, like, you know, African Development bank. David Many Companies outside of africa would like to invest in africa. Where do you recommend that they invest . In nigeria, south africa, kenya . Obviously, you are probably partial to nigeria, but are there good Investment Opportunities for nonafricans in africa . Aliko well, there are opportunities for everybody. And i think there is protection, also, for everybody. As we speak today let me give you an example. In nigeria, if i have a partnership with you that i invest in, i will not have what you call minimum taxation. But if the company is owned by myself alone, as a nigerian or a nigerian entity, we have a minimum taxation. So there is quite a lot, in terms of inviting foreigners to come out and invest in africa. But countries that i can suggest to invest, one of them, of course, nigeria. Ghana is a very good place to invest. Cote divoire. Kenya. Kenya is also a very good place to invest. David i first met you a number of years ago, when i was raising my firms African Investment firm, and you invested in it. And, today, the bloom seems to be off the rose in African Private Equity investing. It was very attractive to many people for years, five years, six years ago. Today, it seems to be less attractive. Is that because the economies in africa have gone down a bit . Or what would you say is the reason . Aliko i think most of that reason, i think, has to do with, most of all, lack of understanding of where to invest. I mean, you know, look at the investments that were made with you. I think 90 of what we invested in has done well. I think it is where you should invest. Even myself, as an african, i cannot invest in every single sector. So i have to be very choosy of where i invest. And, you know, there is a lot of wrong perception. People read stories from newspapers, and they believe what they are, you know, reading. But i think, as we go along, you know, there are quite a lot of changes, in most african countries, to try and change in terms of, you know, focus on the economy. David you live principally in lagos, is that right . Aliko yes, i do. David how many people are there in lagos . Aliko in lagos today, we have 25 million. David 25 million people. Aliko in terms of population. It is small david getting around in lagos is not that easy. Getting around new york is not that easy either. When you get around, do you have special police cars that take you around . How do you get around lagos . Aliko well, i get around, in lagos yeah, sometimes, i have a police escort, but not all the time. I drive myself. David you drive yourself . Aliko yes, i do. David do people stare at you and say, there is the wealthiest men in africa driving himself . Aliko they do sometimes. When they recognize who the person driving is. David when you go to restaurants by yourself, do people come up for selfies or ask for money . Aliko they do not ask for money. Even here, when i go to places to either eat or to, you know, i get a lot of requests for selfies. It is normal. David you have some outside interests. One of them i think you are interested in what we call in the United States soccer but other people call football. So the arsenal team, is that a team you would like to buy someday . Aliko it is a team that, yes, i would like to buy someday. But what i keep saying today we have 20 billion worth of projects. And i think that is really what i want to concentrate on. You know, i am trying to finish building the company. And then, after we finished, maybe sometime in 2021, we can david you are not buying a team right now . Aliko i am not buying arsenal right now. I am buying arsenal when i finish. I am trying to take the company to the next level. David what are the attributes that you think you have brought to the table which make you successful . Aliko i think the most important one, number one, david, if you are going into any business, you must understand the business. You must know that business. So, in terms of africa itself, generally, are you bullish on africas prospects as a place in which people can invest, private equity firms or Industrial Companies to invest . Aliko i think i am very, very bullish when it comes to africa. And it is the main reason today, have 20 billion that we are investing, which we will finish by the end of next year, First Quarter i mean, in the next two years. In the next two years. I am very, very bullish. You know, in africa we have done very, very well in africa. I can tell you, if we continue with what we are doing today, based on our own projections, we will be able to be, you know, within the next five years, in the fortune 500. Onid from time to time, Television Networks i see , advertisements for dangote, your company. Is that general brand building . Advertise and say, in the United States, the dangote brand, because most of your businesses are not in the United States . Aliko it is brand building. What i plan to do we are not going to remain only in africa. We are going to invest outside africa. Because what we are doing right now, david, is we are investing mainly in subsaharan africa. But if you look at what you are building today, we have a company that has revenues of 4 billion. In the next two years, we will have a company that will have a revenue of about 30 billion. So, with that, we will have quite a lot of money. What we are trying to is to use a major part of that money and invest outside africa. And maybe 40 of it we will continue to invest in africa very heavily. David you are in your early 60s. Aliko i am 62. David that is pretty early 60s. So do you intend to do this for 10 more years . 20 more years . 30 more years . Aliko let me not commit, but i think i will maybe work for the next, at least be very active in the next 15 years. David lets suppose someone is watching this and says i want to be like mr. Dangote, i want to be a successful businessman in africa. What are the attributes that you think you have brought to the table which make you successful . Is it intelligence . Hard work . Persistence . All of those things . What would you say are the most important attributes . Aliko i think the most important one, number one, david, if you are going into any business, you must understand the business a to z. You must know that business. You should not invest because somebody will say, that is good money. You have to understand the business in and out. And that is the difference with me. I know my business in and out. You can wake me up anytime and asked me about fertilizer, asked me about anything that we are doing. And the other one is, really, to work very hard. And you have to have the tenacity to continue. You have some hiccups here and there. But you have to be focused in terms of what you are doing. David now, i have known you for a while, and i never seem to get you to yell or scream. You seem very lowkey. You do not use the technique of yelling and screaming at people. Are you just very lowkey and even keeled . To what do you attribute that . Or am i wrong . Aliko that is my nature. I am always i am very quiet. I am very, very calm. I get upset sometimes when people try to outsmart me. I do not like people who will not tell me the truth. I always like people to look at me and tell me the truth. David so are you investing any in the United States . Aliko we are going to start investing, you know, in the United States. We want to open a Family Office both in new york and london. We have an office in london, which has been operating for the last 30 years. So we want to turn part of that into a Family Office to diversify the wealth. As you know, i have discussed this with you before. Sometimes in africa, you have issues of devaluation. So we want to reserve some of that. David sometimes wealthy people collect art, collect cars, they collect other things. What is some of your wealth that you are not using for philanthropy, what are you doing with it . Are you a collector of things . Aliko i am not really a collector of art. Anytime, when i have excess money, id like to put more in terms of charity. I do not really have an expensive lifestyle. David and the great pleasure of your life is building your company and giving away extra money . Aliko that is my greatest pleasure in life. Yes. David well, it is a very good success story. I know a lot of people wanted to hear how you have done it, and i guess you are saying it is hard work and persistence. A little luck from time to time. Aliko luck, definitely. Luck must be there. If there is no luck, you will not be able to make it. David thank you for coming today. I appreciate you giving us your insights. Thank you. Aliko thank you so much. Barry i think rents could drop 25 in new york, office rent. Erik Barry Sternlicht foresees a collapse in manhattan real estate. Barry i think a quarter, a third of hotels in new york city could go bankrupt. Erik he says the coronavirus pandemic is just finishing what amazon started. Barry retail is like 9 11. It is a, it is a hurricane. Erik and explains why billionaires like him are fleeing americas blue states. Barry at some point, you say it is enough. I dont have to be here. Erik Barry Sternlicht is one of the worlds top property investors. At the age of 31, he started buying up bad loans in the s l crisis. Now, three decades later, his
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