Fixed, but ok. Lets just leave it this way. I dont consider myself a journalist. Nobody else would consider myself a journalist. I began to take on the life of being an interviewer, even though i have a day job of running a private equity firm. How do you define leadership . What is it that makes somebody tick . Aliko dangote is widely known to be the wealthiest man in africa. So is that a title you are proud to have . Or is that one where you get so many people calling you for money that you wish you were not the wealthiest man in africa . Aliko first of all, thank you very much, david. It is great to be here and seeing you today. Well, you know, when they call you the wealthiest person in africa, it comes with a lot of baggage. Of course, there are so many demands. People come up with so many different demands. But it is good because i like to give back to the society. David so right now, you are involved in many philanthropic endeavors. Lets go through some of them before we go to how you made all of this money. Recently, you had an event in new york with mo ibrahim, also a very wealthy african businessperson, and bill gates in which you provided a fair amount of money to the African Center in harlem. What is the African Center and why did you do that . Aliko the African Center idea started with chelsea clinton, mo ibrahim, and my daughter. My daughter joined them later. To makezed that we need it a reality for us to be able to project africa in a better light. Bring africa to the rest of the world. Especially when you look at, every september, we have the United Nations general assembly. The entire world converges in new york. What we want to do is to tell the real narrative of africa and tell the rest of the world what africa is all about. This has to do with policy, business, and culture. You know, because sometimes, you know, especially americans, they dont really understand much about africa. You know, somebody will say to you, what kind of language do you speak . For example, in africa, we speak about 2000 different languages. David that is a lot. Aliko that is a lot. David one of the big problems in africa is health, and you have been involved in trying to eradicate polio in nigeria along with bill gates and his foundation. What is the progress you have made to date . Aliko we have done quite a lot. The progress has been very tremendous. In the last three years, we have not had any wild virus of polio, and hopefully, we will work hard between now and the next six months, by april, we will be a poliofree country, which means the entire african continent will be poliofree. David one of the things youre doing in the philanthropic world is building a hospital in nigeria. Why do you feel the need to build a new hospital . Aliko i think we need to build a worldclass hospital because when you look at nigeria, we spend a lot of money, where a lot of people go abroad for medical checkups and for medical operations. What we are trying to do is to give hope to the population to say, look, you do not need to travel abroad. We will be able to treat you there. David nigeria is the most populous country in africa, is that right . Aliko it is. David it is growing at a large rate, in terms of its population. Aliko about 3 . David at the current rate, at some point, more people will be in nigeria than in the United States. Aliko by 2050, we will be 450 million population. And im sure we will be well ahead of the states. We will be number three, after china and india. Then it will be nigeria. David by 2050, you could be the thirdbiggest country in the world by population at the Current Population growth rate. So does that make you nervous about whether nigeria can house and feed all of these people . Aliko it does not really make me nervous because we have massive arable land. We have a lot of water. We have, you know, the right climate. When you look at it, the major contributor to our gdp in nigeria is agriculture. So i think we just need to tilt a bit and change from the normal oil reliance economy to agriculture and manufacturing. David nigeria is known for having large oil deposits. Is that a major contributor to the nigerian economy . Is that the major source of wealth in nigeria . Aliko it is not the major source, but it is 90 of the Foreign Exchange that we have. We also 60 of the government revenue is also coming from oil, but the government is doing quite a lot to try and diversify the economy by trying to structure their own taxes, because we need to make more money from the taxes. Generation in nigeria is a bit low. But the government is working very hard to adjust for this. David now, as the wealthiest man in africa and as the wealthiest man in nigeria, do get pressure to run for Political Office . Would you like to be president of nigeria . Aliko i think i am doing a good job where i am right now, so i dont think i need to be in the political space. Some of us, we need to lead in terms of the trajectory of the world, and africa, through the business, not through the political leadership. David lets talk about how you made this amount of money, which is by far the largest amount of money any individual has in africa. You came from a wealthy family or not a wealthy family . Aliko i came from a wealthy family. My great grandfather in the 1940s was actually the richest west african. My late grandfather was one of the wealthiest nigerians. My family name is from my maternal side. My father was rich and was in business and politics. One thing i am very proud of, i did not inherit any money from my father. I built everything from scratch to where i am. David your father died when you were relatively young. Aliko yeah, he died when i was eight years old. David he did not leave in his will a large amount of money for you . Aliko he left in the will, but whatever i inherited, which was in assets, i have given that to charity since then. David did you go to college in nigeria . Aliko no, i went in egypt. David egypt, all right. And what did you study . Aliko business. David you graduated at what age . Aliko i graduated at about 20 years old. David you went from egypt back to nigeria . Aliko yes, i went back. David did you get a job . What did you do . Aliko i started work with my uncle for a few months, and then i went to lagos and i started my own business. Buying cement. It was a lowkey business. David you are 20, 21 years old. You are buying cement. You are a trader. You are not making cement. You are trading it. Aliko i was trading. Cement is your main business. Why is cement such a big part of africas wealth, and nigeria . Aliko cement is what builds infrastructure. We need a lot of infrastructure. In nigeria alone, we have about 17,000 deficit of housing. It is all over in africa. When we started cement in nigeria, we realized the majority was imported. That is why we went and we started. It is a long story. David so you ultimately were trading cement, and was it hard to get the money to keep that business going . Aliko no, it was not really hard. At that time, i was buying domestically. We started importation in 1980 because we started in 1978, so by 1980 we started importing sugar, rice, commodities generally. The cement was in local trading. It was not really an import business. We started to import cement in 2000. David you had a cement trading business. Somebody thought of maybe buying it. You decided not to sell because they wanted control. You decided to build your own cement manufacturing business. Is that right . Aliko yes. I decided in 2003 to build my own cement. At that time, nigeria was only producing about 1. 8 million, 1. 9 million tons. But we went ahead and started with 5 million tons. David ok. So what year was that . Aliko this was we started at the end of 2003 and we finished in 2007. David so now you are the largest cement manufacturer in nigeria . Aliko well, the largest cement manufacturer in subsaharan africa. David so you are building a refinery in nigeria. Why does nigeria need another refinery . Aliko when you look at the entire subsaharan africa, we have only two working refineries. David the cement business is the core of your wealth in your company, but you are now building other things. You are building a refinery in nigeria. Why does nigeria need another refinery . Aliko well, you know, david, let me give you a little bit of history. What we do at the group is we use businesses to build the future of the business. Like when we were in sugar, it was the sugar profit we used in building cement. Now in cement, we are building so many things, an oil refinery, fertilizer, petroleum products. Then we are also doing petrochemicals. With the refinery, why are we building refinery . When you look at the entire subsaharan africa, you know, we have only two working refineries. One is in cote divoire, which is only 75,000 barrels a day. The other one is in south africa. But the majority of all these countries, almost all of the subsaharan african countries, they dont have the refining capacity. All of them are oil, but they import products. The majority of the exchange was to take petroleum for the inputs. David so nigeria was exporting its oil and has to buy products back. So what you are doing is you are building one of the largest refineries in the world. Aliko it is the largest in the world, 650,000 barrels a day. David 650,000 barrels a day. So to do that, do you have to borrow some money . Where did the money come from . Aliko what we are doing right now, we are borrowing from the commercial banks. We are also borrowing some money from, you know, some financial institutions, like, you know, the african deployment bank, financial deployment, you know, bank. David Many Companies outside of africa like to invest would like to invest in africa. Where would you recommend they invest . In nigeria, south africa, kenya . Obviously, you are probably partial to nigeria, but are there good Investment Opportunities for nonafricans in africa . Aliko there are opportunities for everybody. And i think protection for everybody. As we speak today, even following let me give you an example. In nigeria, if i have a partnership with you, and i am investing, i will not have what you call minimum taxation. By the companies owned on myself alone, as a nigerian owner, a nigerian entity, i have minimum taxation. That is quite a lot in terms of inviting foreigners to come and invest in africa. But countries i suggest in which to invest, one of them of , course, nigeria. Ghana is also a very good place to invest. Cote divoire. You know, can you. Kenya. Know, kenya is also a very good place to invest. David i first met you and number of years ago when i was raising my firms African Investment fund, and you invested in it. Today, the boom seems to be off the rose in african private investing. It was more attractive 5, 6 years ago. Today, it seems to be less attractive. Is that because economies in africa have gone down a bit . Or what would you say is the reason . Aliko i think most of that reason has to do with lack of understanding of where to invest. Look at the investments that were made. You are seeing 90 of whatever we invested, they are doing very well. So i think it is where you should invest. Even myself as an african, i cannot invest in every single sector, so i have to be very choosy of where i invest. There is a lot of wrong perception. You know, people read stories from newspapers, and they believe what they are reading. But i think, you know, as we go along, you know, there are quite a lot of changes in most african countries to try and change in terms of the focus on the economy. David you live principally in lagos. Is that right . Aliko yes, i do. David how any people are there in lagos . Aliko we have about 25 million. David 25 million people. Aliko yes, in terms of population. It is a very small david getting around in lagos, which i have tried to do, is not that easy. Getting around in new york is not that easy, either. But when you get around, do you have special police cars that take you around . How do you get around in lagos . Aliko i get around in lagos, sometimes i have a Police Escort , but not all the time. I can drive myself. David you drive yourself . Aliko yes, i do. David do people stare at you . There is the wealthiest man in africa driving himself . Aliko they do sometimes, when they recognize the person driving. David when you go to a restaurant by yourself, do they come up for selfies or do they ask you for money . Aliko they dont really ask me for money. But even here, and time when i go to places to either eat, you know, i get a lot of requests for selfies. Yes, you know. It is normal. David you have some outside interests. One of them, i think you are interested in, what we call in the United States is soccer, what other people call football. The arsenal team. Is that a team you would like to buy someday . Aliko it is a team that, yes, i would like to buy someday. But also i keep saying today, we have 20 billion worth of projects. I think that is really what i want to concentrate on. You know, i am trying to finish building the company. After we finish, maybe sometime 2021. David but you are not buying a team right now . Aliko i am not buying arsenal right now. I am buying arsenal when i finish of this. Because i am trying to take the company to the next level. David what are the attributes that you think you have brought to the table which make you successful . Aliko i think the most important, number one, if you are going into any business, you must understand the business, a to z. You must know that business. David in terms of africa itself, generally, are you bullish on africas prospects as a place for people or Industrial Companies to invest . Aliko i think i am very, very bullish when it comes to africa. It is the main reason we have 20 billion i invest at home. By the end of next year, First Quarter i mean, and the next two years. I am very, very bullish. I have done very well in africa. You know, i can tell you, if we continue with what we are doing today, based on our own projections, we will be able to be, you know, within the next five years, in the fortune 100. David from time to time, i see on Television Networks advertisements for dangote, for your company. Is that general brand building . Why do you advertise in the United States the dangote brand, because most of your businesses are not in the United States . Aliko it is a brand building. We are not going to remain dominant only in africa. I also want to invest outside of africa. Because what we are doing right now, you know, we are investing mainly in subsaharan africa. But if you look at what we are building today, we have a company that has revenues of 4 billion. In the next two years, we will have a company that will have a revenue of about 30 billion. So with that, we will have quite a lot of money. What we are trying to do is use a major part of that money and invest outside africa. And maybe 40 i have invested very heavily in africa. David you are in your early 60s. Aliko yeah, i am 62. David 62. That is pretty early 60s. Do you intend to keep doing this for 20 more years, 30 more years . Aliko i dont like to commit, but i think i will maybe work for the next, at least, very active in the next 15 years. David lets suppose somebody is watching this and says, i want to be like mr. Dangote. I want to be a successful businessman in africa. Or anywhere. What are the attributes you think you have brought to the table which make you successful . Is it intelligence, hard work, persistence . All of those things . Would you say are the most what would you say are the most important attributes . Aliko i think the most important, number one, if you are going into a business, you must understand the business, a to z. You must know the business. You should not invest because somebody said, there is good money in cement and you jump into cement. You have to understand the business in and out. That is the difference with me. I know my business in and out. You can wake me up anytime and ask me about fertilizer, asked me about anything that we are doing. The other one is really to work very hard. You have to have the tenacity. You will have some hiccups here and there, but you have to be focused in terms of what you are doing. David you know, i have known you for a while, and i never seem to get you to yell or scream. You seem very lowkey. You dont use the technique of yelling and screaming at people. Are you just very lowkey and even keel . To what do you attribute that . Or am i wrong . Aliko you are not wrong. That is my nature. I am very quiet, and i am very, very calm. I get upset sometimes when people try to outsmart me. Or i dont like people who will not tell me the truth. I like people to look at me and tell me the truth. David were you investing any in the United States . Aliko we are going to start investing in the United States. We want to open an office in new york. We already have an office in london. It has been operating for the last 30 years. We want part of that to be the Family Office so that we can diversify the wealth. As you know, i have discussed this with you before, sometimes in africa, you have issues of devaluation. So we one to really preserve some of the familys wealth. David right. Sometimes wealthy people collect art, they collect cars, other things. What do you do with some of your wealth that you are not using for philanthropy . Are you a collector of things . Aliko i am not really a collector of art. Any time when i have excess money, i like to put more into charity. I dont really have an expensive lifestyle. David and the great pleasure of your life is building your company and giving away extra money . Aliko that is my greatest pleasure in life. David well, it is a very good success story, and i know a lot of people wanted to hear how you have done it, and i guess you are saying it is hard work and persistence, a little luck maybe from time to time. Aliko definitely. Luck must be there. If there is no luck, you cannot make it, of course. David thank you very much for coming today. I appreciate you giving us your insights. Thank you. Aliko thank you so much, david. David you started the company in 1999 . Marc yes. David if you had bought the stock at the beginning, you would have been up about 7000 . Marc 3500 , but whos counting . David now that you own time magazine, do you get to pick the person of the year . Marc david, i realize you are a good candidate. I get it. I am not involved in editorials. David would you consider running for office . Marc i think business is the greatest platform for change. We can do it. We can change the world. Would you fix your tie, please . David well, people wouldnt recognize me if my tie was fixed, but ok. Just leave it this way. Alright
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