And henry at home. And today, paddy, i think we ended up basically doing a lot of really similar things on the wireless and on the telly box, because we were asking if politics in the uk has a Racism Problem and you were asking. . Is politics a big stinking pot with the lid come off . Oh, so that was cheery then . Well, kind of. I mean, we spoke to a 19 year old who i first met on radio two when he was 16. Hes a member of the Youth Parliament called dev sharma. He says ive absolutely no desire to join this unsafe, illogical game called parliament. Over the past few years, weve seen it become i so immoralised, become so murky and just full of cheap political stunts. That doesnt really represent what we want. Youre 19. Do you want to go into politics in parliament . Not any more. So i represent. Im part of the Youth Parliament currently, and i speak to my fellow Youth Parliamentarians. And politics doesnt. Seem to reward sanity. It seems to reward a sort of radicalism or having to take a really strong view i and then sticking to it. That is absolutely heartbreaking to hear, to me, because im a politics nerd. And i think if you cover politics, you have to believe actually that we still have the right kind of system and that most politicians go into it for the right reasons. But what we have seen in the last while are so many incidences of things going wrong, of offence being called, of language being casually chucked around, of violence, of incitement to violence, of all kinds of things. And to hear a young person who a short while ago thought, thats the world for me, to hear him so clearly say, i dont want anything to do with it, that is absolutely heartbreaking. He was on with Dame Margaret beckett. Henry, we love your geekery. But she served under the government of harold wilson. She said, look, if youre not in the room, you cant change the system. So she was saying to the young guy, youve got to be in the room, try and fix the building, get in the room. Theres kind of two things which get meshed together in this debate. Theres one thing which is the health and functioning of the political system, and thats things like who gets on in politics, Whether Westminster is too argumentative, whether theres enough power devolved to local people, whether people are able to affect the functioning of Political Parties and so on. And thats one kind of bucket of problems. And then theres the other thing which weve been talking about so much in the past few weeks, which is kind of external to the political system, which is threats to politicians as they go about doing theirjob, how people respond, members of the public respond. And then theres the second issue, which is kind of how people respond to the political system and the threats that mps are facing and many of them say theyre getting worse. And all of it put together does seem to be creating this horrible world in which not that many people want to get involved in politics. And actually i was speaking to one quite senior mp a few weeks ago when we were reporting so much on the threats that mps were facing. And they said to me, this is terrible. But rightly or wrongly, i dont want to speak about how terrible it is because i think you will end up putting good people off from going into politics. And they said they then thought the problem would get worse. I think thats a really interesting point there. Ive had a similar conversation with our politicians who if you highlight it, you make it worse. You put a megaphone. But there has been this specific issue, i think, in the last seven days around the frank hester row. And i think its become a particular problem in the last few days for the conservatives, whether theyre tolerating racist language within their ranks because they need the money or because they politically dont think its advantageous for them to take a strong position against it. It was fascinating this morning. We had on the show samuel kasamu, who used to work for borisjohnson in Downing Street, a young black man, very bright, very able. He quit Downing Street because he had concerns about the operation when he was there under borisjohnson. But he said this morning explicitly he didnt think that theresa may would have tolerated what happened with frank hester. He didnt Think Borisjohnson would have tolerated what happened to frank hester. And he said that the defence that rishi sunak and his colleagues put out there that, oh, look how diverse we are. Oh, look, we have a british hindu Prime Minister. Oh, look, were the most diverse cabinet in history. He said. Its not the color of your skin that matters, its the content of your character. Quoting Martin Luther king. When i was first involved in politics, it was folks like richard fuller, nicholas boles, elizabeth berridge, White Parliamentarians who saw a young guy from a Working Class Background and thought i had potential. And when i was in Downing Street, when george floyd was murdered, it was not the black or brown members of parliament who reached out and said, how can we bring communities together . It was borisjohnson, despite some of the things that he said in the past, that was most interested in that. And now, of course, some of the most divisive politicians are people like suella braverman. And so, to paraphrase Martin Luther king, it is not the color of your skin that matters when it comes to tackling racism and discrimination, bringing communities together. It has to be the content of your character and your willingness to lead, and that is not what we are seeing today. I asked mark harper, the cabinet minister who was doing the rounds this morning, if the tories had a problem with race and he absolutely denied it. Did you straightaway think these alleged comments were racist . Look, the Prime Minister made it very clear at Prime Ministers questions on wednesday that they were racist. It took him some time to do that. Did you think straightaway they were racist . Well, you said it took an age in political terms, it didnt really take very long at all. The Prime Minister was very clear on wednesday and his spokesman had been clear the evening before. They were racist comments and they were unacceptable, and mr hester apologised for those. Thats not actually what happened initially. It did take some time for Downing Street to say these comments were racist. They were rather dancing around that issue. In fact, until your cabinet colleague Kemi Badenoch said online these were clearly racist, that was not what Downing Street was saying on the record. Well, im sure people wanted to make sure and check the facts, in Newspaper Reports and things you do want to go and check the facts are correct. And then i think the Prime Minister was very clear about it, that they they were racist comments and they were unacceptable and wrong. And he made that very clear. Both his spokesmen made it very clear, and he himself made it very clear in the House Of Commons on wednesday. So thats the rear view mirror. Henry, the road going ahead at the Steering Wheel is follow the money. Is there more money that hes given . And will the question of giving the money back remain active in british politics this week . We dont know whether more money has been given. Theres this strange sort of slight wrinkle to this story, which is we know that frank hester gave £10 million in actually quite a short space of time last year, having not been a conservative donor before. But the way that we find out whos donated to Political Parties is they are published quarterly by the electoral commission. So theres a time lag and that means that we at the moment cant know and wont know until, i think, june, whether frank hester gave any money between the start of this year and between this round taking off this week. This row. But there have been reports, not denied, that he gave or is in the process of giving a further £5 million. Now, i know all sums of big political donations are wild amounts of money to you and me. But even in the context of political donations, the amount that frank hester has given or is giving the conservative party is astronomical. So you can see, especially in an election year, through the very narrow, pragmatic lens of funding the conservative partys election war chest, why theyre so reluctant to give the money back. And i think that that is fairly widely understood across the conservative party, whether it should be or shouldnt. And thats why actually the political pressure on rishi sunak to hand the money back, or to for the conservatives to hand the money back, i dont think has been that intense. Youve had the odd conservative voice, andy street, and also the scottish conservative party, but it hasnt stretched into westminster. And i think that means that rishi sunak probably is in the clear on the £10 million hes taken. But whether hes given more and whether the conservative party would accept more now that they are aware of the alleged comments he made in this meeting back in 2019, i think that is a more politically sensitive question. Its hard for us to press that question because we dont have all the facts. And it also might have been. Given the level of public interest, it is perfectly feasible for mark harper to phone up Tory Headquarters and say, ive got to go on the telly this morning and on the radio, and im sure im going to get asked whether or not were taking any more money from this man. He didnt do that, so he didnt have the answer. So he did one of the classic political tricks of saying, this is a hypothetical question and its not for me to know. Of course, its not a hypothetical question because like you, me, like otherjournalists from whenever it was wednesday morning, got a bit of a nudge from someone saying, you should ask if hes given more money, ie hes either handed over another big cheque or hes about to. But mark harper. And its a classic political trick that newscasters will understand. Sometimes it can be useful to get through interviews, not to know the facts. But we know, and smart newscasters and listeners and viewers know very well, how frustrating that is because they can see that its plausible deniability. I dont know the answer. Its not myjob to know. Heres another plausible deniability question. When, if at all, Will Diane Abbott get the labour whip back . Which i heard at the rally i went to on her behalf in hackney this weekend, people were saying, give the whip back. Now she had the whip removed because of an anti semitism inquiry into the letter she wrote to the observer, for which she apologised 11 months ago. So its been a long independent inquiry, but is it a question for keir starmer because two wrongs dont make a right. Will she get the whip back . Is that a live question this week . Its absolutely a live question this week. And we sanonathan ashworth, who was speaking for labour this morning, basically Playing Snapsies with mark harper because he sat there and said, im really sorry. Its probably going to be frustrating for people, but i dont know the answer to this. And its not myjob to know because its Somebody Else whos dealing with this. The independent panel on the nec, the Governing Body of the labour party. Whats tricky for them, i think, and i think it will be a live discussion this week is, as you said, paddy, its nearly a year since she was suspended, 330 days to the day since she was suspended for a letter that was 126 words long. So newscasters might be scratching their head and thinking, how on earth could it possibly be taking this long to work out whether or not she should be let into the party . She said sorry very quickly. What was interesting, though, henry, is thatjonathan ashworth, i mean, he absolutely didnt want to touch us with a bargepole, but he did say, well, ive been on the nec and sometimes, you know, lawyers get involved and people start, you know, bringing in other things that have been said in the political debate. So i dont know if he was trying to just flannel or if he was trying to drop a clue about what might be happening in the investigation behind closed doors. I dont know either. I mean, it seems absurd how long its taken. And its not the only instance weve seen, by the way, of a labour party suspension appearing to take a very, very long time to be resolved and in some cases not being resolved at all. Theres a handful of labour mp5, or i should say former labour mpps, who either are in that boat or were in that boat. In fact, in the case of nick brown, a former labour chief whip, he was suspended for so long that eventually he said, actually, im just quitting the party and im going to stand down at the general election. And that sort of meant that the entire investigation at that point was void because there was there wasnt a Labour Party Member to investigate, as it were. So look, i think the political focus on this will remain for a few days, but i can so easily see how, just as 11 months ago when diane abbott initially was suspended, there was a lot of political focus on the question of her suspension and how it might be resolved. But then ultimately things happen. You move on. I can see a world in which were a few weeks, months down the track and Diane Abbotts suspension is still unresolved. But because were not talking about the frank hester case any more, for example, the fact that its unresolved sort of becomes a bit less politically vicious. Although at some point as we charge nearer and nearer to an election, there needs to be a decision about who the Labour Candidate may or may not be in her seat. However, harriet harman, who was on with us this morning, did say, well, look, shes getting to the end of her political career. Thats why this should be resolved. So i dont know what that means in terms of. Is that true . Because i saw clips from diane abbott speaking at the. Because in private conversations ive been having, off the record conversations ive been having with labour people over the past week about this, they say, yeah, no one wants to see diane abbott end her career as an independent. But i have not seen any evidence from Diane Abbotts Public Comments and quite to the contrary, that she thinks her career is ending. Also, Jeremy Corbyn showed up on the steps of hackney town hall to speak. And sort of almost neighbours in that part of london. I was just going to say one thing because ive had a couple of communications from our wonderful viewers and listeners saying, well, why havent you spoken to diane abbott . Basically, she was denied her voice in the commons this week. She shouldnt be denied her voice here when people are discussing her. We would love to speak to diane abbott and we have invited herfor interviews. And itsjust important, i think, to say that we are not excluding her at all from the conversation, but for the time being, clearly she doesnt want to come and do big interviews. She spoke briefly at the rally the other night that you were at. But i just want to put that on the record. We are not denying her her voice and shed be welcome any time to come and speak to us. But lets just round this off. Now, weve been talking about all of this business, about how politics is broken, apparently or certainly stinks because of the Diane Abbott Frank Hester row, which has been the story of the last seven days. I think thats right. And i think it makes me sort of feel morose, really, in a way, because actually in the last few months, weve so often found ourselves in a place having a conversation like this and saying that we understand why people, members of the public, look at whats going on in our names among the people who are meant to represent us. And not only does it look like it isnt working very well, it also can seem very unpleasant and make people feel that theyre not very safe. So were trying our best every weekend, henry, laura and i, to bring you a summary of whats on the radio, whats on the tv and some of the speculation in the papers. So weve done that, and now we really have to change the tone to address once again this big signature interview that laura has done with Charles Spencer, earl spencer, the brother of princess diana. And also the coverage that weve seen in the papers, it was covered by our guests on radio four. And youve got a new piece of honesty from Charles Spencer about how writing this book has affected him. Thats right. He told us in the course of his interview, and the long version is on a special episode of newscast, you can hear the whole thing on bbc sounds, and the tv version is also on iplayer. And it was a very, very moving conversation, ifelt. But one of the things that he said to me, which hadnt been in all the papers already, was actually the process of writing the book led him once hed finished, to have a nervous breakdown. The experience of what he described as confronting evil that he witnessed at the hands of teachers at his school when he was eight, nine, ten, 11 years old, led him once that had been put on a page unburdened, he had spoken and interviewed other people who were at school with him at that time, led him to what he described as a very dark place. He had to check into a residential facility to be able to cope with this sort of well of pain that overwhelmed him. Its sort of emotional archaeology. Hes gone back to something he didnt expect to go back to. Absolutely right. And one of the incredible things through all of the conversation and reading the book isjust to imagine that none of these boys told anyone at the time. He didnt then tell anyone until he was 40, in his forties when he told the therapist, he didnt tell anyone in his family until a year or so ago. So to be living with that through all of this period of time is something extraordinary and difficult. And i think he would say with humanity that for anybody living with something as awful as that, that happened in your childhood, that the impacts that has on your later life is really profound. And somehow he wants to encourage other people to get it out. And i think its important to say, as we said yesterday, i dont think that Charles Spencer is sitting there asking people to say, oh, poor me, you wealthy, privileged man. I think what hes trying to offer to people is to say, look, this is when you have pain buried deep, you have to find a way of getting it out. So he opened up and said hed had a breakdown through the process of writing the book. What was the effect of putting pen to paper . I what was the effect of putting pen to a er . � what was the effect of putting pen to aer . � ~. , to paper . I didnt know the appalling to paper . I didnt know the appalling effect, to paper . I didnt know the appalling effect, and to paper . I didnt know the appalling effect, and when| to paper . I didnt know the| appalling effect, and when i to paper . I didnt know the appalling effect, and when i finish the book i had a bit of a breakdown and i had to go into a residential treatment for trauma for writing this book. ,. , this book. The other thing some eole this book. The other thing some peeple will this book. The other thing some peeple will be this book. The other thing some people will be interesting this book. The other thing some people will be interesting and, i people will be interesting and, although it only affects a narrow section of society, is his strong belief that no child under 13 should belief that no child under 13 should be sent away to school because they are not ready. The possibility of damaging them is too great and he has that strong view. You damaging them is too great and he has that strong view. Has that strong view. You mean boardin has that strong view. You mean Boarding School . Has that strong view. You mean Boarding School . I has that strong view. You mean Boarding School . I would has that strong view. You mean Boarding School . I would say i has that strong view. You mean l Boarding School . I would say any child under Boarding School . I would say any child under teenage Boarding School . I would say any child under teenage years, Boarding School . I would say any child under teenage years, under Boarding School . I would say any child under teenage years, under 13, i child under teenage years, under 13, i dont child under teenage years, under 13, idonl think child under teenage years, under 13, i dont think they should be sent awax i dont think its fair. I dont think they can possibly understand whats going on. There are a lot of teenagers who think, great, i want to get away from my parents and thats fine. I mean, of course its a personal decision, but i dont think any child personally should be sent away before they hit puberty. I mean, i wasjust very struck listening to the very, very powerful interview, how Old Fashioned l much of it sounded. I mean, i dont have i the stats, but you can understand why, given what he experienced, earl spencer wouldnt want a child under the age of 14 to go to Boarding School. But i assume that far fewer children under the age of 14 do go to Boarding School now than it did when he was a child. And i think a lot of this, and actually, you know, you can also see changing British Society in what laura was just describing, which was the sort of decision, i if you can call it that, for him i to keep it all inside. That also feels to somej extent a kind of vestige of a previous Stiff Upper Lip Age in which brits i but i guess boys and men in particular, were not meant to have and certainly not share emotions. | i think one of the things i found most moving in the interview. Actually was when he said when you asked him, and he talked about people whod got in touch with him after he had started speaking about this, you know, within recent weeks. And he talked about one man who got in touch with him and said that hed been married to his wife for 40 years, i think it was, and hadnt ever felt he could tell her about what he had suffered at Boarding School. L but as a result of these interviews, he did. And he also had an anecdote about being in a restaurant recently. I think it was the day before he recorded the interview, in fact, and the waiter came up to him and whispered to him, i wentl to a school like that, thank you. And i found that the most moving section of the interview, because it clearly isntjust him who buttoned Something Like this up. It clearly affected quite a lot of people. And just to close with two thoughts perhaps on this, theres one other thing he talks about and he writes about in the book. He believes that the impact of being sent away to school at a young age had on other men of his class has actually been quite profound on our society. He basically said politicians, leaders, people who came through this system, have been influenced and are not necessarily. His implication is that theyre not necessarily the right people to make decisions because as he said, part of you dies. Part of your sensibility, part of your emotion, its just sort of not really there. But i think, as you was saying, one of the things he wants is other people to speak out and weve had lots of messages this morning and some people, i think, objected to somebody in privilege making these kinds of admissions about their past. But heres just one of the messages i had. Earl spencer was remarkable. I, too, suffered years of childhood and teen abuse at the hands of my father. In those days, you just kept quiet. There was no one to tell who would have believed you. And all these decades on, i still feel the mental effects. So these are important messages. Whether or not you feel a particular sympathy or empathy for earl spencer. And if you want to listen to the full interview, as i said, its on the podcast feed as a separate episode, the whole interview there. Importantly, also, if this is something that has affected you, there is tonnes of information on bbc action line, which is on the bbc website, and there is support out there for people if they have been affected by any of these kinds of issues. 0ur Brothers And Sisters on Ukraine Cast Have 0ur Brothers And Sisters on Ukraine Cast Have an 0ur Brothers And Sisters on Ukraine Cast Have an interview 0ur Brothers And Sisters on Ukraine Cast Have an interview as 0ur Brothers And Sisters on Ukraine Cast Have an interview as well. 0ur Brothers And Sisters on Ukraine Cast Have an interview as well. I 0ur Brothers And Sisters on ukrainej cast have an interview as well. 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Newscast from the bbc. Hello there. Once the cloud from this morning moved away we started to see things warming up, sunshine coming through. Temperatures 14, 15 degrees. Warmer thanit temperatures 14, 15 degrees. Warmer than it was yesterday. Were still in this mild air as we head overnight and into monday, this Weather System bringing some rain. The head of that we have two bands of cloud with a little rain, not much on those. The second band of cloud heading eastwards and we will see the rain die out later in the night. Clearerskies see the rain die out later in the night. Clearer skies ahead of that mean temperatures will thickly be around five, six, 7 degrees. A bit cooler than last night. Early mist and fog patches in the south east of england. That band of cloud and any rain dies out, lots of sunshine following on behind. In the west in the Afternoon Winds will pick up to the Afternoon Winds will pick up to the irish sea, Northern Ireland and we start to see that Weather System bringing some rain. Ahead of that, it is looking day with sunny spells around, mild air, temperatures 14 or 15 degrees. Thanks to that southerly wind ahead of that weather front, that will bring in rain from the atlantic, mostly for northern areas. That will get spread northwards with that low Pressure Centre overnight, turning to dry off on tuesday. Left with a band of cloud and patchy light rain, followed by some brighter skies, some sunshine and showers around. It is beginning to turn cooler across scotland and Northern Ireland on tuesday, still pretty mild in the south east. In the south west that could be rain later in the day, that may push northwards and affect wales, Northern England in south east scotland. A lot of uncertainty on that rain. No wind to me things about. Scotland and Northern Ireland are looking dry, cool it here perhaps, mild and generally dry in the south east of england. That band of rain will tend to fizzle out because it is going to get swamped by the next Weather System coming in from the atlantic to bring wetter weather for the northern half of the uk, mainly overnight. By thursday that may have cleared scotland and Northern Ireland and we will see Patchy Rain Heading Down Across and wales. It may turn more cloudy and damp later in the day across Northern Ireland but most of scotland enjoying some sunshine, especially in the north east. Temperatures 12 14 c. Mikhail zygar live from london, this is bbc news. Silent protests against Vladimir Putin have been seen at Polling Stations across russia on the final day of an election designed to keep him in power. A mothers plea for her son as the families of 130 israeli hostages being held in gaza urge the government to broker a deal to free them, before its too late. At talks in jerusalem, the german chancellor, olaf scholz, warns Benjamin Netanyahu about the terribly high costs of the war against hamas. We cannot stand by and watch palestinians risk starvation. Thats not us. That is not what we stand for. Much more Human Nigerian Aid is needed, continuously, reliably. A State Of Emergency in iceland after a fourth volcanic eruption in as many months. The village of grindavik is evacuated, only weeks after residents were allowed to return. Come up and see me, make me smile or do what you want. And steve harley, the frontman of cockney rebel, has died at the age of 73. Hello, im rich preston