Ambassador Riyad Mansour at the un in new york, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Its a pleasure to have you on the programme. Ambassador, do you have any hope left that talks can achieve a stop or at least a suspension to the war in gaza . I still have hope. And thats what drives me to work harder with all of my colleagues, to succeed in putting an end to this war, to have a ceasefire, and to be able to send humanitarian assistance up to the needs of the people in the gaza strip and to prevent a forced Mass Transfer to egypt. I mean, nobody would doubt that, for the two million and more palestinians who live in gaza and of course the 100 or so hostages who are being held in the tunnels in gaza as well, every day is a day of extreme suffering. The problem is, if one looks at the talks and what is being said about the talks, there appears to be very little ground for optimism. For example, the israelis say no way will they even countenance a stop to their Military Operations until hamas provides a full list of those hostages who are still being held. Are you trying to get hamas to issue such a list . I am not involved in any of these negotiations. My work is here at the un. There is no justification whatsoever for the continuation of killing so many palestinians. Palestinians, children and women. We cross the 30,000 of those who were killed and more than 75,000 injured. Most of them, 70 of them, are women and children. My work is to try to stop this killing against the entire palestinian population in the gaza strip. This is what i do, day and night, in order to accomplish that objective. You point to the scale of death and destruction in gaza, and it is truly appalling, and as you said, the Hamas Run Health Ministry now says the death toll in gaza has gone beyond 31,000. And they say the majority of those are women and children. But i just ask you again, as an experienced diplomat, how do you think israel could justify to its people stopping its Military Operations in gaza, when a senior hamas spokesman, who speaks for the alqassam brigades, the military wing of hamas, abu 0beida, just says in the last few days, as muslims prepare worldwide to welcome ramadan, we offer a sacrifice to allah, a cascade of pure blood and pure souls. We welcome the peak of islamic zeal, jihad and combat. In other words, hamas is saying their determination to continue the existential war with israel goes on. If israel is serious about really avoiding killing this massive number of palestinian civilians, there are regulations and laws, International Humanitarian law, that would regulate their behaviour, vis a vis the Civilian Population in the gaza strip. Israel is violating all of these provisions. In fact, the International Court ofjustice, the highest court recognised by the International Community, requested from them. Not requested, demanded from them to abide by implementing six provisional measures to save lives of civilians, including providing them with food, with water, with medicine, with protection. Israel is violating these provisions. Therefore, the Israeli Government is conducting this war of genocide against the entire population of the gaza strip. This is what we concentrate on, and israel can very easily not go bombarding houses with dozens of civilians, members of the same family in these houses, and killing all of them. And there are so many of these massacres that have taken place. Israel, of course, absolutely rejects and refutes that use of the word � genocide� , but as you point out, the International Court ofjustice is now hearing south africas case, based on that genocide provision. So ijust wonder, at the un, when you look at what is happening on the ground in terms of, for example, food supply to keep the people of gaza alive and to avoid famine and starvation, do you see the International Community making satisfactory effort to ensure that basic Food Assistance reaches the people . The International Community can do more than that. But the main obstacle facing us. That all the crossings are not open to scale. The israeli side, whether on the Rafah Crossing and i assume also in Karem Abu Salem crossing, they are not opening all the crossings. They are putting so many difficulties in the path of verification of what is in these truckloads. The end results there is a small number of truckloads being allowed to cross. Secondly, the International Humanitarian organisation, led by unrwa, which has the capability of distributing humanitarian assistance to all people in gaza, including the north, cannot do it while they are being exposed to bombardment from the skies, from artilleries. They cannot operate this way while war is taking place. So if there is a ceasefire. As you know, the United States and a number of other western governments have suspended their Financial Support to unrwa because of israels allegations that a significant number of unrwa officials were associated with hamas. We are grateful for the number of countries that reverse their decision, including the european union, canada, sweden, and those who did not suspend some of their assistance in the first place, doubled or increased their assistance. I believe the financial situation of unrwa is, in its way, to be dealt with. What is now, israel is trying to do to destroy unrwa politically. Unrwa has a mandate almost unanimously supported by the general assembly. When they renew the mandate, the last time was 176 votes against one that voted against the renewal of the mandate, which is israel. So this organisation, which is a tremendous, noble organisation, has been working for 75 years, providing humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian People in an impeccable way. It is the most successful story of the United Nations. All right, well. So, therefore, this organisation will remain in place. That� s your view on unrwa, which is clearly different from the israelis. But the United States and in particular, president joe biden, while saying that, in his view, far too many civilians have been killed in gaza, rather than restore support for unrwa, what The Americans are now proposing to do. Well, number one, theyve launched a limited airlift of food. And, tragically, we know that at least one of those airlifts ended in the death of a number of palestinians who were hit by a pallet that landed upon them. And, also, biden� s announced that us Military Engineers are going to build some sort of dock or pier off the coast of gaza to allow shipments to come in by sea. I wonder what you, as a diplomat at the un, make of these american workarounds, which they say will get aid into gaza. Let me say two things. The first thing is that there are other leaders, including the director of the cia, who is saying that you cannot address the acute starvation situation of palestinians in gaza without having a massive amount of aid through a land crossing. So hes asking for opening the crossings and allowing for a mass number of trucks to get in. The second thing hes saying you cannot distribute this massive number of aid that reach the. You know, that elevate itself to the level of the needs of the Palestinian People without a ceasefire. Having said that, which is number one, let me also say that the palestinian leadership welcome assistance to our people in all parts of gaza in any way possible, provided that it will not allow Prime Minister netanyahu to try to show that there is an alternative to unrwa and the un. There is no alternative to unrwa and the un they have the experience, they have the capability, they have the 13,000 employees who are part of the Palestinian People in the gaza strip that are capable of carrying, in a very efficient and effective way, the task of distributing humanitarian assistance to all parts of the gaza strip. Ambassador, let me ask you specifically about the situation in rafah. Hundreds of thousands of people, palestinians, are sheltering in encampments around and in rafah because theyve been forced from their homes in other parts of the gaza strip. Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of israel, says that he will press on with Military Operations right into the heart of rafah. He says that that offensive is a red line, which he will not accept any pressure to stop, because its vital, he says, for israels Security Interests and to eliminate hamas. Would you accept that, in a pure humanitarian necessity, if that happens, if the Israelis Push On and do that against americas advice, then the egyptians will have to open the border to allow people to flee for their lives . Would you accept that . The plan of netanyahu and the Israeli Government is to depopulate gaza. They told the people from the north to move to the centre, and then they told them to move from khan yunis to the south. The intentions of the Israeli Government, or the plan, is to create a bubble in the southern part of the gaza strip around rafah, and then, when they storm rafah, they give the Palestinian People no chance but to try to storm the borders with egypt and to flee to egypt and, therefore, to create a Second Intifada for the Palestinian People and for the Israeli Government to accomplish the objective which they announced even, you know, from the year 2017 that they want to destroy the National Rights of the Palestinian People. So depopulating the gaza strip would be a significant step in that direction and, therefore, it will follow. So, what, as a diplomat, what would your message to egypt be . What would your message to egypt be . These are terrible circumstances. Right. Egypt is standing very firmly, and they send through many channels that if israels to take that step, then that would constitute a fundamental change in the situation there, including hinting about the status of the agreement between them and israel dated to the camp david agreement. And god knows what will ensue if that agreement is to be cancelled and to go back to the situation of war between egypt and israel. And i think the american side understand this danger of potentially escalating the war to a level higher, much higher, than what we see. And i hope The Americans succeed, based on that firm, strong position of egypt that israels not to invade. To invade rafah and to avoid such a catastrophe. Let me ask you bluntly what do you think of the biden administrations handling of this war and this massive humanitarian crisis . It is in their power to stop this war immediately, whether there is a Security Council resolution or not. In this holy month of ramadan, in which traditionally, from the time even before islam, when people used to fight, there were periods of time that they honour and respect and they dont fight. Even in the case of ukraine, a ceasefire, temporary ceasefire was organised during christmas. In these holy months, such as the month of ramadan, it is. It is within the grasp of the United States administration to force israel to stop the fighting and to spare the lives of our people in this holy month while they are continuing to negotiate in cairo, in doha and in other places the deal they are talking about between them and hamas. Ceasefire is needed, and it should be taking place immediately to save lives here, palestinian lives of children and women. Ambassador, youve now had five months and more to reflect on the disaster that has Befallen Gaza since october 7. And, of course, you know as well as i do that, on october 7, hamas launched a murderous attack on southern israel, which killed more than 1,000 people. How does it make sense, and how is it in the Palestinian Peoples interest for the palestinians that you speak for. . And i know you said you speak for the Palestinian State, but in essence, you speak for the Palestinian Authority. How does it make sense for people from the Palestinian Authority, from fatah, to go to moscow to hold talks under russian auspices with hamas and talk about forming a unified palestinian front . Hamas has brought a disaster upon the Palestinian People. It continues to talk about all out war with israel. Why would you seek an alliance with hamas . Well, let me first of all say that, these days, because of what happened, the horror of what happened to us as palestinians during these five months of aggression against our Civilian Population in the gaza strip, these are the most painful months in my history and in my life. It pains me every day. Its torn me. Its tearing me apart. Every day, i think of what is happening to the children of gaza and to the women and to the civilians. And also, at the same time, we are a society like all other societies. We have so Many Political organisations. Some, they have views, in european terms, extreme right, and others have views to the left, and there are in the centre. It is within our National Interest to put our house in order and to try to unify our ranks and to deal with all of the issues facing us and the challenges facing us, not only putting an end to this aggression against us, but also, to be ready for attending to the wounds inflicted on us in the gaza strip and beginning the process of rebuilding gaza. Gaza is so precious to us. If i may say so, ambassador, isnt the truth of it that what we see is simply a product of the Palestinian Authoritys weakness and lack of credibility with its own people . Thats why the Palestinian Authority is trying to sort of reach out to hamas, to come up with a united palestinian front, because all of the Opinion Polling evidence from both the west bank and from gaza shows that the Palestinian People support hamas� s military action, refuse to recognise what hamas did on october 7 as war crimes, and because of that, frankly, Mahmoud Abbas and the leadership of the Palestinian Authority cannot do anything but try to somehow form an alliance with hamas. Let me just say that, before october 7 and after october 7, it is within the National Interest of the Palestinian People to put our house in order and to unify our ranks. But, ambassador, what does that mean . We have a senior hamas official, ghazi hamad, saying that the Al Aqsa Flood operation is just the first. Therell be a second, a third, a fourth. Thats hamas� s world view. How can you say, we need to put the palestinian house in order, and then tell me that, yeah, that involves bringing hamas in. What kind of future does that give the Palestinian People . Let me just repeat it has been egypt, algeria, russia, qatar and many other arab countries who have been working with us for years in order to try to put our house in order. I remember very vividly when the uk ambassador at the un used to lecture me in the Security Council meeting you palestinians, put your house in order, unify your ranks. I did not want the uk ambassador to tell me that. Im just telling you what is in the interest of the Palestinian People. We appreciate all those who are helping us to put our house in order. And it is the most important interest of the Palestinian People to put our house in order, and i hope we succeed, and i hope we succeed soon, especially after we put an end to this aggression against our people in the gaza strip. You sit at the United Nations, you talk to your counterparts from the United States, from the arab states, including the gulf arab nations, including saudi arabia. They all talk about a Two State Solution, and yet i see no prospect that a Two State Solution can work because it appears you seem to believe that would have to involve hamas. And, on the israeli side, the far right wing government, led by benjamin netanyahu, dismisses any notion of a Palestinian State. So all this talk of a Two State Solution, itsjust a mirage, isnt it . Let me just say two things. First of all, it was the International Community in 19117 that decided to partition palestine to two states. That was the position of the general assembly. And it is the International Community, unanimously in the Security Council, that they say the only solution is the Two State Solution. So thats not the position of the state of palestine alone. Therefore, what we are saying, it is not up to israel to decide the fate of the Two State Solution in this case, the fate of the state of palestine. It is the International Community with the responsibility to address that issue. This occupation has to end. The state of palestine has to become independent, as on 4june 1967, with eastjerusalem as its capital, and the issue of the refugees need to be resolved on the basis of International Law and un resolutions. These are the positions of the International Community and, therefore, we will be marching to the Security Council soon in order to tell the Security Council, you are unified around the Two State Solution. We ask you now to admit the state of palestine to membership as an investment in peace and as an investment in saving the Two State Solution. I hope the Security Council to act on the basis of this unanimous position on the Two State Solution by allowing us to become a member state. So two states, member of the United Nations. Ambassador. Will deal. Ambassador. With the issues in the International Conference to implement the Two State Solution. Ambassador, you know as well as i do, the likelihood of the United States right now deciding to formally recognise the Palestinian State at the United Nations is zero. Thats the truth. No. I hope that they would be influenced by foreign minister, er. Cameron, who is saying that it is high time for the recognition of the state of palestine, including. All right. At the United Nations. We have to end there, ambassador. But Riyad Mansour, i do thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. Thank you. Youre very welcome. Hello there. After a very wet february, the rain has continued to fall during march, particularly across Southeast England. Here, its been much wetter than average. Weve seen 2 inches of rain, 50mm in some places, and thats more than the average march rainfall, and were not even halfway through yet. It is looking a bit drier for the southeast in the next few days, but there is rain elsewhere. And were going to see a spell of milder conditions in the next few days. Thats because the air is coming all the way from a long way south, up across the uk, in between these two Weather Fronts here, and its this second one here thats focusing the rain as we head into wednesday. Now, that is stumbling its way across scotland and northern ireland, heading into Northern England and north wales. Theres going to be some sunshine following to the north, but the winds picking up, bringing some gales in Northern Scotland and some showers. And for england and wales, theres going to be a lot of cloud again. Still some damp, drizzly, low cloud across western coasts and hills. But further east, with the brighter skies, temperatures could reach 15 degrees and were going to be double figures in scotland and northern ireland. Now, that area of low pressure bringing that windy weather in Northern Scotland will pull away overnight, so things do calm down. And those Weather Fronts start to move northwards, back into scotland and northern ireland. Here, it will be a little bit chilly first thing on thursday morning, but, again, a very mild start for the rest of the uk. Weve got that Rain Moving Northwards Into Scotland and northern ireland. Some sunshine for the north of the country, but we will see further showers coming in to wales, Western Parts of england, some eastern areas of england, and particularly Southeast England and east anglia may well be dry. And we should get a bit of sunshine here, so 16, 17 degrees not out of the question. Things are a little cooler still across scotland and northern ireland. That Weather Front, then, does move northwards, taking rain across more of scotland. The low pressure then driving that system sits across the uk. That Weather Front will be out of the way for friday. Things will be turning a little bit cooler. Windy weather actually through the english channel, and well see showers coming into england and wales some of these could be heavy and thundery. Bit of snow over the scottish mountains, otherwise its rain sinking southwards here, a northerly wind pushing down thats going to introduce cooler air. But we still could see 13 degrees across some southeastern areas to end the week. Live from london, this is bbc news. Round two President Biden and donald trump have both secured their parties� nominations and will again face each other in the november us elections. A Transitional Council is expected to be appointed in violence hit haiti shortly following the resignation of the Prime Minister. The Chief Of Staff of the late russian Opposition Leader Alexei Navalny has been attacked with a hammer in lithuania. And the planets largest trees, the giant redwood, are thriving in britain where they can now be found in a bigger number than in the us. Hello. Im sally bundock. We start in the United States where we now know that its going to be President Biden versus donald trump in this novembers president ial election
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