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Transcripts For BBCNEWS World 20240704

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Information and records to those charged with Conducting Information and records to those i charged with conducting Northern Irelands charged with conducting northern lrelands legacy charged with conducting Northern Irelands Legacy Investigation charged with conducting Northern Irelands Legacy Investigation is l irelands Legacy Investigation is under irelands Legacy Investigation is under a irelands Legacy Investigation is under a new irelands Legacy Investigation is under a new structure. Third, enact legislation to enforce procedural third, enact legislation to enforce procedural time third, enact legislation to enforce procedural time limits third, enact legislation to enforce procedural time limits to third, enact legislation to enforce procedural time limits to handle l procedural time limits to handle cases procedural time limits to handle cases passing procedural time limits to handle cases passing from procedural time limits to handle cases passing from a procedural time limits to handle cases passing from a new procedural time limits to handle| cases passing from a new Legacy Structure cases passing from a new Legacy Structure to cases passing from a new Legacy Structure to the cases passing from a new Legacy Structure to the criminal cases passing from a new Legacy Structure to the criminaljusticel structure to the criminaljustice System Structure to the Criminaljustice System four. Structure to the Criminaljustice System. Four, Review Structure to the Criminaljustice System. Four, review and structure to the criminaljustice i system. Four, review and Reform Structure to the Criminaljustice System. Four, review and reform the resourcing system. Four, review and reform the resourcing and system. Four, review and reform the resourcing and operating system. Four, review and reform the resourcing and Operating Practices. Resourcing and Operating Practices of the resourcing and Operating Practices of The Public Resourcing and Operating Practices of the Public Prosecution resourcing and Operating Practices of the Public Prosecution service l resourcing and Operating Practices| of the Public Prosecution service of northern of the Public Prosecution service of Northern Ireland of the Public Prosecution service of Northern Ireland in of the Public Prosecution service of Northern Ireland in connection of the Public Prosecution service of| Northern Ireland in connection with northern Northern Ireland in connection with Northern Ireland Northern Ireland in connection with Northern Ireland legacy Northern Ireland in connection with Northern Ireland legacy cases. Northern ireland in connection withl Northern Ireland legacy cases. Five, the longest Northern Ireland legacy cases. Five, the longest day, Northern Ireland legacy cases. Five, the longest day, the Northern Ireland legacy cases. Five, the longest day, the 21st Northern Ireland legacy cases. Five, the longest day, the 21st of Northern Ireland legacy cases. Five, the longest day, the 21st ofjune, i the longest day, the 21st ofjune, should the longest day, the 21st ofjune, should be the longest day, the 21st ofjune, should be designated the longest day, the 21st ofjune, should be designated as the longest day, the 21st ofjune, should be designated as a the longest day, the 21st ofjune, should be designated as a day the longest day, the 21st ofjune,. Should be designated as a day when we remember should be designated as a day when we remember those should be designated as a day when we remember those lost, should be designated as a day when we remember those lost, injured i should be designated as a day when we remember those lost, injured or| we remember those lost, injured or harmed we remember those lost, injured or harmed as we remember those lost, injured or harmed as a we remember those lost, injured or harmed as a result we remember those lost, injured or harmed as a result of we remember those lost, injured or harmed as a result of the we remember those lost, injured or harmed as a result of the troubles. | harmed as a result of the troubles. Six, review, harmed as a result of the troubles. Six, review, codify harmed as a result of the troubles. Six, review, codify the harmed as a result of the troubles. Six, review, codify the proper six, review, codify the proper limits six, review, codify the proper limits of six, review, codify the proper limits of the six, review, codify the proper limits of the ncnd six, review, codify the proper limits of the ncnd policy six, review, codify the proper limits of the ncnd policy as l six, review, Codify The Properj limits of the ncnd policy as it relates limits of the ncnd policy as it relates to limits of the ncnd policy as it relates to the limits of the ncnd policy as it relates to the identification i limits of the ncnd policy as it relates to the Identification Of agents relates to the Identification Of agents and relates to the Identification Of agents and its relates to the Identification Of agents and its application relates to the Identification Of agents and its application in l relates to the Identification Of. Agents and its application in the Context Agents and its application in the context of agents and its application in the context of the agents and its application in the context of the Northern Agents and its application in the context of the Northern Irelandl context of the Northern Ireland legacy context of the Northern Ireland legacy cases. Context of the Northern Ireland legacy cases, predating context of the Northern Ireland legacy cases, Predating The context of the Northern Ireland. Legacy cases, Predating The good friday legacy cases, Predating The good friday agreement. Legacy cases, Predating The good friday agreement. Then legacy cases, Predating The good friday agreement. Then review l legacy cases, Predating The good l friday agreement. Then review the security friday agreement. Then review the Security Classification friday agreement. Then review the Security Classification of friday agreement. Then review the Security Classification of previous. Security classification of previous Northern Security classification of previous Northern Ireland Security Classification of previous Northern Ireland legacy Security Classification of previous Northern Ireland Legacy Reports. Security classification of previousi Northern Ireland Legacy Reports in order Northern Ireland Legacy Reports in order that Northern Ireland Legacy Reports in order that their Northern Ireland Legacy Reports in order that their contents, Northern Ireland Legacy Reports in order that their contents, at Northern Ireland Legacy Reports in order that their contents, at the i order that their contents, at the very order that their contents, at the very least order that their contents, at the very least their order that their contents, at the very least their principal very least their Principal Conclusions very least their Principal Conclusions and very least their Principal Conclusions and recommendations, can be Declassified Conclusions and recommendations, can be declassified and conclusions and recommendations, can be declassified and made conclusions and recommendations, can be declassified and made public. Conclusions and recommendations, can be declassified and made public. The. Be declassified and made public. The Public Be Declassified and made public. The Public Prosecutions be declassified and made public. The Public Prosecutions service be declassified and made public. The Public Prosecutions service of Public Prosecutions service of northern Public Prosecutions service of Northern Ireland Public Prosecutions service of Northern Ireland should Public Prosecutions service of Northern Ireland should pay. Public Prosecutions Service of. Northern ireland should pay due regard Northern Ireland should pay due regard to Northern Ireland should pay due regard to the Northern Ireland should pay due regard to the views, Northern Ireland should pay due regard to the views, interests i Northern Ireland should pay due i regard to the views, interests and wellbeing regard to the views, interests and wellbeing of regard to the views, interests and well being of victims regard to the views, interests and well being of victims and regard to the views, interests and well being of victims and families when well being of victims and families when considering well being of victims and families when considering the well being of victims and families when considering the public well being of victims and families. When considering the Public Interest factors when considering the Public Interest factors relevant when considering the Public Interest factors relevant to when considering the Public Interest factors relevant to Prosecution Factors relevant to Prosecution Decisions factors relevant to Prosecution Decisions in factors relevant to Prosecution Decisions in Northern Factors relevant to Prosecution Decisions in Northern Ireland l factors relevant to Prosecution Decisions in Northern Ireland legacy cases~ decisions in Northern Ireland legacy cases~ ld decisions in Northern Ireland legacy cases~ ld Like Decisions in Northern Ireland legacy cases. Id like to decisions in Northern Ireland legacy cases. Id like to Finish Decisions in Northern Ireland legacy cases. Id like to finish with decisions in Northern Ireland legacy cases. Id like to finish with the cases. Id like to finish with the final cases. Id like to finish with the final two cases. Id like to finish with the final two recommendations. Cases. Id like to finish with the final two recommendations. United kingdom final two recommendations. United Kingdom Government final two recommendations. United Kingdom Government should final two recommendations. United Kingdom Government should apologise to the Kenova Kingdom government should apologise to the kenova families Kingdom Government should apologise to the kenova families for Kingdom Government should apologise to the kenova families for the to the kenova families for the failures to the kenova families for the failures of to the kenova families for the failures of the to the kenova families for the failures of the security to the kenova families for the failures of the Security Forces | to the kenova families for the l failures of the Security Forces to protect failures of the Security Forces to protect the failures of the Security Forces to protect the lives failures of the Security Forces to protect the lives of failures of the Security Forces to protect the lives of their failures of the Security Forces to protect the lives of their loved i protect the lives of their loved ones protect the lives of their loved ones. Investigate protect the lives of their loved ones. Investigate the protect the lives of their loved ones. Investigate the crimes. Ones. Investigate the crimes committed ones. Investigate the crimes committed against ones. Investigate the crimes committed against them ones. Investigate the crimes| committed against them and ones. Investigate the crimes committed against them and treat them committed against them and treat them with committed against them and treat them with the committed against them and treat them with the fairness, committed against them and treat. Them with the fairness, compassion, respect them with the fairness, compassion, respect and them with the fairness, compassion, respect and transparency them with the fairness, compassion, respect and transparency that them with the fairness, compassion, respect and transparency that they. Respect and transparency that they deserved respect and transparency that they deserved the respect and transparency that they deserved. The former respect and transparency that they deserved. The former Prime Respect and transparency that they. Deserved. The former Prime Minister lord cameroon deserved. The former Prime Minister lord cameroon issued deserved. The former Prime Minister lord cameroon issued a public lord cameroon issued a public apology lord cameroon issued a public apology is lord cameroon issued a public apology is in lord cameroon issued a public apology is in the lord cameroon issued a public apology is in the bloody lord cameroon issued a public. Apology is in the Bloody Sunday lord cameroon issued a public apology is in the Bloody Sunday and pat finucane apology is in the Bloody Sunday and pat finucane reports, apology is in the Bloody Sunday and pat finucane reports, in apology is in the Bloody Sunday and pat finucane reports, in my apology is in the Bloody Sunday and| pat finucane reports, in my opinion, the same pat finucane reports, in my opinion, the same thing pat finucane reports, in my opinion, the same thing should pat finucane reports, in my opinion, the same thing should happen pat finucane reports, in my opinion, the same thing should happen here. J the same thing should happen here. Finally, the same thing should happen here. Finally, it the same thing should happen here. Finally, it was the same thing should happen here. Finally, it was the the same thing should happen here. Finally, it was the iras the same thing should happen here. Finally, it was the iras internal finally, it was the iras Internal Security finally, it was the iras internal Security Unit finally, it was the iras internal Security Unit that finally, it was the iras internal Security Unit that brutalised finally, it was the iras internal Security Unit that brutalised andj Security Unit that brutalised and murdered Security Unit that brutalised and murdered these Security Unit that brutalised and murdered these victims Security Unit that brutalised and murdered these victims that Security Unit that brutalised and murdered these victims that it i Security Unit that Brutalised Andi murdered these victims that it is accused. Murdered these victims that it is accused, often murdered these victims that it is accused, often wrongly, murdered these victims that it is accused, often wrongly, of murdered these victims that it is| accused, often wrongly, of being agents accused, often wrongly, of being agents the accused, often wrongly, of being agents. The republican accused, often wrongly, of being l agents. The Republican Leadership should agents. The Republican Leadership should accept agents. The Republican Leadership should accept its agents. The Republican Leadership should accept its accountability i agents. The Republican Leadership| should accept its accountability for these should accept its accountability for these heinous should accept its accountability for these heinous crimes should accept its accountability for these heinous crimes and should accept its accountability forl these heinous crimes and apologise for the these heinous crimes and apologise for the tits these heinous crimes and apologise for the iras abduction, these heinous crimes and apologise for the iras abduction, torture these heinous crimes and apologise for the iras abduction, torture andj for the iras abduction, torture and murder for the iras abduction, torture and murder of for the iras abduction, torture and murder of those for the iras abduction, torture and murder of those it for the iras abduction, torture and murder of those it accused for the iras abduction, torture and murder of those it accused or murder of those it accused or suspected murder of those it accused or suspected of murder of those it accused or suspected of being murder of those it accused or suspected of being agents i murder of those it accused or suspected of being agents during the troubles suspected of being agents during the troubles and suspected of being agents during the troubles and acknowledge suspected of being agents during the troubles and acknowledge the suspected of being agents during the troubles and acknowledge the loss. Troubles and acknowledge the loss and unacceptable troubles and acknowledge the loss and unacceptable intimidation, and unacceptable intimidation, bereaved and unacceptable intimidation, bereaved and and unacceptable intimidation, bereaved and surviving and unacceptable intimidation, | bereaved and surviving families and unacceptable intimidation, bereaved and surviving families have suffered bereaved and surviving families have suffered in bereaved and surviving families have suffered. In concluding, bereaved and surviving families have suffered. In concluding, i bereaved and surviving families have suffered. In concluding, i want bereaved and surviving families have suffered. In concluding, i want to suffered. In concluding, i want to thank suffered. In concluding, i want to thank the suffered. In concluding, i want to thank the independent suffered. In concluding, i want to thank the independent kenova i thank the independent Kenova Governance thank the independent Kenova Governance groups thank the independent Kenova Governance groups that thank the independent Kenova Governance groups that have i governance groups that have steadfastly governance groups that have steadfastly overseen governance groups that have steadfastly overseen all governance groups that have steadfastly overseen all of. Governance groups that have l steadfastly overseen all of this work steadfastly overseen all of this work each steadfastly overseen all of this work. Each member steadfastly overseen all of this work. Each member of steadfastly overseen all of this work. Each member of the steadfastly overseen all of this work. Each member of the governance board, work. Each member of the governance board, the work. Each member of the governance board, the independent work. Each member of the governance board, the independent steering board, the independent Steering Group board, the independent Steering Group and board, the independent Steering Group and the board, the independent Steering Group and the victim board, the independent Steering Group and the victim focus board, the independent steering| group and the Victim Focus Group board, the independent Steering Group and the Victim Focus Group has to start group and the Victim Focus Group has to start their group and the Victim Focus Group has to start their role group and the Victim Focus Group has to start their role with group and the Victim Focus Group has to start their role with true to start their role with true independence, to start their role with true independence, dedicationl to start their role with true i independence, dedication and to start their role with true independence, dedication and a to start their role with true independence, dedication and a focus on ensuring independence, dedication and a focus on ensuring the independence, dedication and a focus on ensuring the work independence, dedication and a focus on ensuring the work was independence, dedication and a focus on ensuring the work was diligently. On ensuring the work was diligently conducted on ensuring the work was diligently conducted and on ensuring the work was diligently conducted and viksten focused. I on ensuring the work was diligentlyl conducted and viksten focused. The baroness conducted and viksten focused. The baroness to conducted and viksten focused. The baroness to my conducted and viksten focused. The baroness to my right conducted and viksten focused. The baroness to my right and conducted and viksten focused. The baroness to my right and Judith Baroness to my right and Judith Thompson baroness to my right and Judith Thompson to baroness to my right and Judith Thompson to my baroness to my right and Judith Thompson to my left baroness to my right and Judith Thompson to my left are baroness to my right and Judith Thompson to my left are here i thompson to my left are here representing thompson to my left are here representing the thompson to my left are here representing the independentj representing the independent steering representing the independent Steering Group representing the independent Steering Group and representing the independent Steering Group and victim representing the independent. Steering group and Victim Focus Group Steering Group and Victim Focus Group and Steering Group and Victim Focus Group and we Steering Group and Victim Focus Group. And we have Steering Group and Victim Focus Group. And we have the Steering Group and Victim Focus Group. And we have the overall commander group. And we have the overall commander of group. And we have the overall commander of operation group. And we have the overall. Commander of Operation Kenova group. And we have the overall commander of Operation Kenova and his role commander of Operation Kenova and his role of commander of Operation Kenova and his role of Operation Commander of Operation Kenova and his role of operation board. Commander of Operation Kenova and his role of operation board. I commander of Operation Kenova and his role of operation board. I also his role of operation board. I also want his role of operation board. I also want to his role of operation board. I also want to thank his role of operation board. I also want to thank the his role of operation board. I also want to thank the various his role of operation board. I also want to thank the various boards| want to thank the various boards that have want to thank the various boards that have conducted want to thank the various boards that have conducted thorough i that have conducted thorough reviews that have conducted thorough reviews. Their that have conducted thorough reviews. Their respective that have conducted thorough reviews. Their respective findings are available reviews. Their respective findings are available on reviews. Their respective findings are available on the reviews. Their respective findings are available on the kenova reviews. Their respective findings. Are available on the kenova website. And to are available on the kenova website. And to finish. Are available on the kenova website. And to finish, this are available on the kenova website. And to finish, this report are available on the kenova website. And to finish, this report is and to finish, this report is dedicated and to finish, this report is dedicated to and to finish, this report is dedicated to the and to finish, this report is dedicated to the victims i and to finish, this report isi dedicated to the victims and and to finish, this report is dedicated to the victims and the families dedicated to the victims and the families to dedicated to the victims and the families. To those dedicated to the victims and the families. To those weve dedicated to the victims and the families. To those weve come i dedicated to the victims and the| families. To those weve come to know families. To those weve come to know and families. To those weve come to know and those families. To those weve come to know and those through families. To those weve come to know and those through their families. To those weve come to. Know and those through their loved ones weve know and those through their loved ones weve come know and those through their loved ones weve come to know and those through their loved ones weve come to know. Know and those through their loved ones weve come to know. I know and those through their loved ones weve come to know. I wish i know and those through their lovedj ones weve come to know. I wish to ones weve come to know. Iwish to thank ones weve come to know. Iwish to thank all ones weve come to know. Iwish to thank all of ones weve come to know. I wish to thank all of those ones weve come to know. I wish to thank all of those who ones weve come to know. I wish to thank all of those who are ones weve come to know. I wish to thank all of those who are spoken l ones weve come to know. I wish tol thank all of those who are spoken to us so thank all of those who are spoken to us so openly thank all of those who are spoken to us so openly and thank all of those who are spoken to us so openly and we thank all of those who are spoken to us so openly and we remember thank all of those who are spoken to us so openly and we remember with| us so openly and we remember with those us so openly and we remember with those who us so openly and we remember with those who have us so openly and we remember with those who have sadly us so openly and we remember with those who have sadly passed us so openly and we remember with those who have sadly passed away i those who have sadly passed away during those who have sadly passed away during our those who have sadly passed away during our work. Those who have sadly passed away during our work. Each those who have sadly passed away during our work. Each person those who have sadly passed away during our work. Each person we l during our work. Each person we spoke during our work. Each person we spoke with during our work. Each person we spoke with helped during our work. Each person we spoke with helped shape during our work. Each person we spoke with helped shape and during our work. Each person we spoke with helped shape and inspire the work spoke with helped shape and inspire the work of spoke with helped shape and inspire the work of kenova. Spoke with helped shape and inspire the work of kenova. That spoke with helped shape and inspire the work of kenova. That includes. The work of kenova. That includes many the work of kenova. That includes many families the work of kenova. That includes many families we the work of kenova. That includes many families we have the work of kenova. That includes many families we have met the work of kenova. That includes. Many families we have met beyond the work of kenova. That includes many families we have met beyond the scope many families we have met beyond the scope of many families we have met beyond the Scope Of Kenova many families we have met beyond the Scope Of Kenova. Each many families we have met beyond the Scope Of Kenova. Each legacy many families we have met beyond the Scope Of Kenova. Each Legacy Victim. Scope of kenova. Each Legacy Victim and family Scope Of Kenova. Each Legacy Victim and family deserve Scope Of Kenova. Each Legacy Victim and family deserve to Scope Of Kenova. Each Legacy Victim and family deserve to know Scope Of Kenova. Each Legacy Victim and family deserve to know what i and family deserve to know what happened and family deserve to know what happened in and family deserve to know what happened in their and family deserve to know what happened in their case and family deserve to know what happened in their case was and family deserve to know what. Happened in their case was stopping what each happened in their case was stopping what each legacy happened in their case was stopping what each legacy of happened in their case was stopping what each legacy of victim happened in their case was stopping what each legacy of victim has what each legacy of victim has enjoyed what each legacy of victim has enjoyed should what each legacy of victim has enjoyed should be what each legacy of victim has i enjoyed should be acknowledged what each legacy of victim has enjoyed should be acknowledged and where enjoyed should be acknowledged and where the enjoyed should be acknowledged and where the information enjoyed should be acknowledged and where the information exists, enjoyed should be acknowledged and where the information exists, shouldj where the information exists, should be told where the information exists, should be told what where the information exists, should be told what happened. Where the information exists, should be told what happened. There where the information exists, should be told what happened. There is where the information exists, should be told what happened. There is a i be told what happened. There is a responsibility be told what happened. There is a responsibility on be told what happened. There is a responsibility on all be told what happened. There is a responsibility on all of be told what happened. There is a responsibility on all of us be told what happened. There is a responsibility on all of us in responsibility on all of us in Authority Responsibility on all of us in authority to responsibility on all of us in authority to make responsibility on all of us in authority to make sure responsibility on all of us in authority to make sure this| responsibility on all of us in authority to make sure this occurs. Thank authority to make sure this occurs. Thank you. Authority to make sure this occurs. Thank you. And authority to make sure this occurs. Thank you, and im authority to make sure this occurs. Thank you, and im now authority to make sure this occurs. Thank you, and im now happy authority to make sure this occurs. Thank you, and im now happy to l authority to make sure this occurs. I thank you, and im now happy to take some thank you, and im now happy to take some questions some questions. Journalist some questions. I journalist asks a some questions. Journalist asks a question. Firstly, the cooperation of all public firstly, the cooperation of all public bodies firstly, the cooperation of all public bodies in firstly, the cooperation of all public bodies in legacy firstly, the cooperation of all public bodies in legacy cases| firstly, the cooperation of all public bodies in legacy cases should occur public bodies in legacy cases should occur without public bodies in legacy cases should occur without hesitation public bodies in legacy cases should occur without hesitation and public bodies in legacy cases should occur without hesitation and should| occur without hesitation and should be absolute occur without hesitation and should be absolute i occur without hesitation and should be absolute. I set occur without hesitation and should be absolute. I set out occur without hesitation and should be absolute. I set out in occur without hesitation and should be absolute. I set out in my occur without hesitation and should be absolute. I set out in my reporti be absolute. I set out in my Report Challenges be absolute. I set out in my Report Challenges that be absolute. I set out in my Report Challenges that we be absolute. I set out in my Report Challenges that we faced. Be absolute. I set out in my Report Challenges that we faced. These. Be absolute. I set out in my report. Challenges that we faced. These are challenges challenges that we faced. These are challenges that challenges that we faced. These are challenges that previous challenges that we faced. These are challenges that previous legacy challenges that previous Legacy Investigations challenges that previous Legacy Investigations have challenges that previous Legacy Investigations have also investigations have also encountered. Investigations have also encountered. And investigations have also encountered. And In Investigations have also| encountered. And in the investigations have also encountered. And in the Report Investigations have also encountered. And in the report and i encountered. And in the report and i would encountered. And in the report and i would point encountered. And in the report and i would point you encountered. And in the report and i would point you to encountered. And in the report and i would point you to the encountered. And in the report and i would point you to the section i would point you to the section where i would point you to the section where previous i would point you to the section where previous people i would point you to the section where previous people have i would point you to the sectionj where previous people have led legacy where previous people have led Legacy Inguiries where previous people have led Legacy Inquiries and where previous people have led Legacy Inquiries and faced where previous people have led. Legacy inquiries and faced similar challenges Legacy Inquiries and faced similar challenges Legacy Inquiries and faced similar challenges its Legacy Inquiries and faced similar challenges its those Legacy Inquiries and faced similar challenges its those reports, l challenges its those reports, among challenges its those reports, among various challenges its those reports, among various reports, challenges its those reports, among various reports, that. Challenges its those reports, among various reports, that ini challenges its those reports, i among various reports, that in my view among various reports, that in my view should among various reports, that in my view should be among various reports, that in my view should be reviewed, view should be reviewed, Declassified View should be reviewed, declassified and view should be reviewed, declassified and made. View should be reviewed, declassified and made public. We view should be reviewed, declassified and made public. We as a Democratic Declassified and made public. We as a Democratic Society declassified and made public. We as a Democratic Society are declassified and made public. We as a Democratic Society are often a Democratic Society are often judged a Democratic Society are often judged on a Democratic Society are often judged on how a Democratic Society are often judged on how we a Democratic Society are often judged on how we deal a Democratic Society are often judged on how we deal with l judged on how we deal with allegations judged on how we deal with allegations of judged on how we deal with allegations of wrongdoing l judged on how we deal with allegations of wrongdoing against agencies allegations of wrongdoing against agencies of allegations of wrongdoing against agencies of the allegations of wrongdoing against agencies of the state. Allegations of wrongdoing against agencies of the state. Any agencies of the state. Any democratic agencies of the state. Any Democratic Society agencies of the state. Any Democratic Society that i agencies of the state. Any Democratic Society that values agencies of the state. Any Democratic Society that values human rights Democratic Society that values human rights and Democratic Society that values human rights and the Democratic Society that values human rights and the rights Democratic Society that values human rights and the rights of Democratic Society that values human rights and the rights of its rights and the rights of its Citizens Rights and the rights of its citizens who rights and the rights of its citizens who its rights and the rights of its citizens who its there rights and the rights of its citizens who its there to i rights and the rights of its citizens who its there to protect should citizens who its there to protect should ensure citizens who its there to protect should ensure that citizens who its there to protect should ensure that those citizens who its there to protect should ensure that those rightsl should ensure that those rights include should ensure that those rights include proper should ensure that those rights include proper scrutiny should ensure that those rights include proper scrutiny of should ensure that those rights. Include proper scrutiny of agencies that are include proper scrutiny of agencies that are responsible include proper scrutiny of agencies that are responsible for include proper scrutiny of agencies that are responsible for looking. That are responsible for looking after that are responsible for looking after us that are responsible for looking after us. With that are responsible for looking after us. With regards that are responsible for looking after us. With regards to that are responsible for looking after us. With regards to the i after us. With regards to the individual after us. With regards to the Individual Stakeknife after us. With regards to the Individual Stakeknife and after us. With regards to the. Individual stakeknife and when after us. With regards to the Individual Stakeknife and when he was stood Individual Stakeknife and when he was stood down, Individual Stakeknife and when he was stood down, were Individual Stakeknife and when he was stood down, were not Individual Stakeknife and when he was stood down, were not goingl Individual Stakeknife and when he i was stood down, were not going to answer was stood down, were not going to answer questions was stood down, were not going to answer questions about was stood down, were not going to answer questions about that was stood down, were not going to answer questions about that at was stood down, were not going to answer questions about that at this| answer questions about that at this stage answer questions about that at this stage but answer questions about that at this stage but in answer questions about that at this stage but in the answer questions about that at this stage but in the final answer questions about that at this stage but in the final report, answer questions about that at this stage but in the final report, it answer questions about that at this stage but in the final report, it is l stage but in the final report, it is our intention stage but in the final report, it is our intention to stage but in the final report, it is our intention to set stage but in the final report, it is our intention to set out stage but in the final report, it is our intention to set out in stage but in the final report, it is our intention to set out in more i our intention to set out in more detail our intention to set out in more detail the our intention to set out in more detail the history our intention to set out in more detail the history of our intention to set out in more detail the history of the our intention to set out in more l detail the history of the particular individual detail the history of the particular individual. ,. ,. , individual. How would you characterise individual. How would you characterise the individual. How would you characterise the conduct l individual. How would you | characterise the conduct of individual. How would you characterise the conduct of Research Intelligence and mi5 in this case . Was this an acceptable return of the high value intelligence provided by stakeknife especially. 7 high value intelligence provided by stakeknife especially. . With that in mind, is an agent owed a debt of gratitude . I in mind, is an agent owed a debt of cratitude . In mind, is an agent owed a debt of cratitude . ,. Gratitude . I ust did and swan, i ust didnt gratitude . Ijust did and swan, i just didnt hear gratitude . Ijust did and swan, i just didnt hear the gratitude . Ijust did and swan, i just didnt hear the last gratitude . Ijust did and swan, i just didnt hear the last part . Gratitude . Ijust did and swan, i just didnt hear the last part . I just didnt hear the last part . I dont just didnt hear the last part . I dont believe just didnt hear the last part . I dont believe stakeknife just didnt hear the last part . I dont believe stakeknife is just didnt hear the last part . I dont believe stakeknife is out| just didnt hear the last part . I dont believe stakeknife is out any debt of dont believe stakeknife is out any debt of gratitude dont believe stakeknife is out any debt of gratitude and dont believe stakeknife is out any debt of gratitude and lets dont believe stakeknife is out any debt of gratitude and lets be dont believe stakeknife is out any debt of gratitude and lets be very| debt of gratitude and lets be very clear debt of gratitude and lets be very clear on debt of gratitude and lets be very clear on that debt of gratitude and lets be very clear on that. Its debt of gratitude and lets be very clear on that. Its the debt of gratitude and lets be very clear on that. Its the victims debt of gratitude and lets be very clear on that. Its the victims of. Clear on that. Its the victims of the crimes clear on that. Its the victims of the crimes of clear on that. Its the victims of the crimes of agents clear on that. Its the victims of the crimes of agents who clear on that. Its the victims of the crimes of agents who committed murder the crimes of agents who committed murder and the crimes of agents who committed murderand other the crimes of agents who committed murder and other serious the crimes of agents who committed murder and other serious offences. Murder and other serious offences that we murder and other serious offences that we should murder and other serious offences that we should focus murder and other serious offences that we should focus our that we should focus our understanding that we should focus our understanding and that we should focus our. Understanding and attention that we should focus our understanding and attention on today understanding and attention on today and understanding and attention on today. And we understanding and attention on today. And we need understanding and attention on today. And we need to understanding and attention on today. And we need to be understanding and attention on today. And we need to be veryi understanding and attention on today. And we need to be very clear about today. And we need to be very clear about that today. And we need to be very clear about that. With today. And we need to be very clear about that. With regards today. And we need to be very clear about that. With regards to today. And we need to be very clear about that. With regards to the about that. With regards to the value about that. With regards to the value of about that. With regards to the value of any about that. With regards to the value of any intelligence about that. With regards to the value of any intelligence of about that. With regards to the value of any intelligence of anyj value of any intelligence of any agents. Value of any intelligence of any agents. Its value of any intelligence of any agents, its vital, value of any intelligence of any agents, its vital, its value of any intelligence of any agents, its vital, its vital value of any intelligence of any agents, its vital, its vital that| agents, its vital, its vital that were agents, its vital, its vital that were able agents, its vital, its vital that were able to agents, its vital, its vital that were able to recruit agents, its vital, its vital that were able to recruit and agents, its vital, its vital that were able to recruit and work| agents, its vital, its vital that were able to recruit and work with agents were able to recruit and work with agents who were able to recruit and work with agents who seek were able to recruit and work with agents who seek to were able to recruit and work with agents who seek to help were able to recruit and work with agents who seek to help us were able to recruit and work with| agents who seek to help us protect Society Agents who seek to help us protect society from agents who seek to help us protect society from terrorism agents who seek to help us protect society from terrorism and agents who seek to help us protect l society from terrorism and organised Crime Society from terrorism and organised crime but society from terrorism and organised crime but we society from terrorism and organised crime but we do society from terrorism and organised crime. But we do that society from terrorism and organised crime. But we do that on society from terrorism and organised crime. But we do that on the society from terrorism and organised crime. But we do that on the basis i crime. But we do that on the basis of two crime. But we do that on the basis of two premises crime. But we do that on the basis of two premises for crime. But we do that on the basis of two premises for me crime. But we do that on the basis of two premises for me crime. But we do that on the basis of two premises for me that crime. But we do that on the basis. Of two premises for me that those agents of two premises for me that those agents and of two premises for me that those agents and the of two premises for me that those agents and the security of two premises for me that those agents and the Security Forces of two premises for me that those agents and the Security Forces who i agents and the Security Forces who Deploy Agents and the Security Forces who deploy those agents and the Security Forces who deploy those agents agents and the Security Forces who deploy those agents and agents and the Security Forces who deploy those agents and recruit. Agents and the Security Forces who i deploy those agents and recruit them act with deploy those agents and recruit them act with pmpriety deploy those agents and recruit them act with propriety and deploy those agents and recruit them act with propriety and within deploy those agents and recruit them act with propriety and within the act with propriety and within the rule of act with propriety and within the rule of law act with propriety and within the rule of law. And act with propriety and within the rule of law. And thats act with propriety and within the rule of law. And thats what act with propriety and within the i rule of law. And thats what society expects rule of law. And thats what society expects of rule of law. And thats what society expects of us rule of law. And thats what society expects of us. And rule of law. And thats what society expects of us. And in rule of law. And thats what society expects of us. And in these rule of law. And thats what society expects of us. And in these cases, i expects of us. And in these cases, that did expects of us. And in these cases, that did not expects of us. And in these cases, that did not happen. Expects of us. And in these cases, that did not happen. Did expects of us. And in these cases, that did not happen. That did not happen. Did the state make sure frederic that did not happen. Did the state make sure Frederic Scappaticci. That did not happen. Did the state| make sure Frederic Scappaticci got away with murder even right up until the day he died . I away with murder even right up until the day he died . The day he died . I think the iron approach. The day he died . I think the iron approach. If the day he died . I think the iron approach. If you the day he died . I think the iron approach, if you will, the day he died . I think the iron approach, if you will, to the day he died . I think the iron approach, if you will, to neither| approach, if you will, to neither confirm approach, if you will, to neither confirm hor approach, if you will, to neither confirm nor deny approach, if you will, to neither confirm nor deny it, approach, if you will, to neither confirm nor deny it, without approach, if you will, to neither confirm nor deny it, without a l confirm nor deny it, without a doubt. Confirm nor deny it, without a doubt. Has confirm nor deny it, without a doubt, has prevented confirm nor deny it, without a doubt, has prevented not confirm nor deny it, without a| doubt, has prevented not only confirm nor deny it, without a doubt, has prevented not only the agent doubt, has prevented not only the Agent Stakeknife doubt, has prevented not only the Agent Stakeknife but doubt, has prevented not only the Agent Stakeknife but other doubt, has prevented not only the Agent Stakeknife but other agentsi Agent Stakeknife but other agents and their Agent Stakeknife but other agents and their activities Agent Stakeknife but other agents and their activities from Agent Stakeknife but other agents and their activities from being and their activities from being investigated and their activities from being investigated. I and their activities from being investigated. I would and their activities from being investigated. I would describe and their activities from being investigated. I would describe the policy investigated. I would describe the policy of investigated. I would describe the Policy Of Ncnd investigated. I would describe the Policy Of Ncnd is investigated. I would describe the Policy Of Ncnd is applied investigated. I would describe the | Policy Of Ncnd is applied internally to investigations Policy Of Ncnd is applied internally to investigations as Policy Of Ncnd is applied internally to investigations as much Policy Of Ncnd is applied internally to investigations as much as Policy Of Ncnd is applied internally to investigations as much as it Policy Of Ncnd is applied internally to investigations as much as it is. To investigations as much as it is externally to investigations as much as it is externally to to investigations as much as it is externally to members to investigations as much as it is externally to members of to investigations as much as it is externally to members of the. To investigations as much as it is. Externally to members of the press or body externally to members of the press or body seeking externally to members of the press or body seeking to externally to members of the press or body seeking to find externally to members of the press or body seeking to find out or body seeking to find out information. Or body seeking to find out information. And or body seeking to find out information. And that or body seeking to find out information. And that is, l or body seeking to find out information. And that is, whether there information. And that is, whether there is information. And that is, whether there is any information. And that is, whether there is any legitimate information. And that is, whether there is any legitimate concerns i there is any legitimate concerns about there is any legitimate concerns about agents there is any legitimate concerns about agents committing there is any legitimate concerns. About agents committing crimes, there is any legitimate concerns about agents committing crimes, the should about agents committing crimes, the should be about agents committing crimes, the shouid be no about agents committing crimes, the should be no immunity about agents committing crimes, the should be no immunity from should be no immunity from investigation should be no immunity from investigation and should be no immunity from investigation and that should be no immunity from investigation and that was. Investigation and that was unacceptable. Investigation and that was unacceptable. Investigation and that was unacceptable. Investigation and that was unaccetable. ,. ,. Unacceptable. You spoke at the start that ou unacceptable. You spoke at the start that you mentioned unacceptable. You spoke at the start that you mentioned the unacceptable. You spoke at the start that you mentioned the families unacceptable. You spoke at the start that you mentioned the families are | that you mentioned the families are a focus. At the start of this process was also a criminaljustice investigation about where it was possible to get prosecutions. I ask you about the possibility that we should be doing this investigation if you dont believe you could get a successful case. Based on those words and the fact there hasnt been any prosecutions, is it fair to say that in this field, kenova failed to deliver . I that in this field, kenova failed to deliver . , �. U , that in this field, kenova failed to deliver . , � ,. , deliver . I dont accept that is because of deliver . I dont accept that is because of the deliver . I dont accept that is because of the report deliver . I dont accept that is because of the report sets i deliver . I dont accept that is i because of the report sets out, deliver . I dont accept that is because of the report sets out, we achieved because of the report sets out, we achieved far because of the report sets out, we achieved far higher because of the report sets out, we achieved far higher levels because of the report sets out, we achieved far higher levels of achieved far higher levels of evidential achieved far higher levels of evidential recovery achieved far higher levels of evidential recovery than achieved far higher levels of evidential recovery than i i achieved far higher levels of evidential recovery than i expected. And very evidential recovery than i expected. And very compelling evidential recovery than i expected. And very compelling evidence evidential recovery than i expected. And very compelling evidence was l and very compelling evidence was provided and very compelling evidence was provided to and very compelling evidence was provided to the and very compelling evidence was provided to the public and very compelling evidence wasi provided to the Public Prosecutions Service Provided to the Public Prosecutions service let provided to the Public Prosecutions service let me provided to the Public Prosecutions service. Let me deal provided to the Public Prosecutions service. Let me deal with provided to the Public Prosecutions service. Let me deal with this service. Let me deal with this particular service. Let me deal with this particular element service. Let me deal with this particular element service. Let me deal with this particular element of service. Let me deal with this particular element of the i service. Let me deal with this particular element of the Public Prosecution particular element of the Public Prosecution service particular element of the Public Prosecution service is particular element of the Public Prosecution service is an particular element of the public. Prosecution service is an incredibly difficult Prosecution Service is an incredibly difficuitjob Prosecution Service is an incredibly difficultjob. They Prosecution Service is an incredibly difficult job. They are Prosecution Service is an incredibly difficultjob. They are under difficultjob. They are under resourced difficultjob. They are under resourced but difficultjob. They are under resourced but their difficultjob. They are Underl Resourced but their approach difficultjob. They are under resourced but their approach to these resourced but their approach to these files resourced but their approach to these files resourced but their approach to these files and resourced but their approach to these files and its resourced but their approach to these files and its Set Resourced but their approach to these files and its Set Out Resourced but their approach to i these files and its set out very clearly these files and its set out very clearly in these files and its set out very clearly in the these files and its set out very clearly in the report these files and its set out very clearly in the report these files and its set out very clearly in the report is these files and its set out very clearly in the report is not these files and its set out very clearly in the report is not an. Clearly in the report is not an approach clearly in the report is not an approach im clearly in the report is not an approach im accustomed clearly in the report is not an approach im accustomed to i clearly in the report is not an| approach im accustomed to for clearly in the report is not an approach im accustomed to for such serious approach im accustomed to for such serious niatters approach im accustomed to for such serious matters. There approach im accustomed to for such serious matters. There should approach im accustomed to for such serious matters. There should be approach im accustomed to for such serious matters. There should be a i serious matters. There should be a collegiate serious matters. There should be a Collegiate Approach serious matters. There should be a Collegiate Approach to serious matters. There should be a Collegiate Approach to examining l serious matters. There should be a l Collegiate Approach to examining the evidence Collegiate Approach to examining the evidence to Collegiate Approach to examining the evidence to see Collegiate Approach to examining the evidence to see where Collegiate Approach to examining the evidence to see where the Collegiate Approach to examining the evidence to see where the strengths| evidence to see where the strengths and weaknesses evidence to see where the strengths and weaknesses of evidence to see where the strengths and weaknesses of this evidence to see where the strengths and weaknesses of this case evidence to see where the strengths and weaknesses of this case files. And weaknesses of this case files ntight and weaknesses of this case files might live and weaknesses of this case files might live. Such and weaknesses of this case files might live. Such an and weaknesses of this case files might live. Such an approach and weaknesses of this case files| might live. Such an approach that would might live. Such an approach that would happen might live. Such an approach that would happen in might live. Such an approach that would happen in all might live. Such an approach that would happen in all serious might live. Such an approach that would happen in all Serious Casesi would happen in all serious cases and as would happen in all serious cases and as happened would happen in all serious cases and as happened with would happen in all serious cases and as happened with people would happen in all serious cases i and as happened with people around this table and as happened with people around this table did and as happened with people around this table did not and as happened with people around this table did not occur and as happened with people around this table did not occur in and as happened with people around this table did not occur in this this table did not occur in this case this table did not occur in this case i this table did not occur in this case i think this table did not occur in this case. I think that this table did not occur in this. Case. I think that predominantly this table did not occur in this case. I think that predominantly is down case. I think that predominantly is down to case. I think that predominantly is down to a case. I think that predominantly is down to a lack case. I think that predominantly is down to a lack of case. I think that predominantly is down to a lack of resource case. I think that predominantly is down to a lack of resource for case. I think that predominantly is down to a lack of resource for the | down to a lack of resource for the pps down to a lack of resource for the pps so. Down to a lack of resource for the pps so. In down to a lack of resource for the pps so. In my down to a lack of resource for the pps. So, in my view down to a lack of resource for the pps. So, in my view down to a lack of resource for the pps. So, in my view and down to a lack of resource for the pps. So, in my view and i down to a lack of resource for the | pps. So, in my view and i would say that pps. So, in my view and i would say that freddie pps. So, in my view and i would say that Freddie Scappaticci pps. So, in my view and i wouldi say that Freddie Scappaticci should be prosecuted say that Freddie Scappaticci should be prosecuted for say that Freddie Scappaticci should be prosecuted for offences say that Freddie Scappaticci should be prosecuted for offences and say that Freddie Scappaticci should be prosecuted for offences and he i be prosecuted for offences and he was not be prosecuted for offences and he was not prosecuted, be prosecuted for offences and he was not prosecuted, and be prosecuted for offences and he was not prosecuted, and in be prosecuted for offences and he was not prosecuted, and in my. Be prosecuted for offences and he i was not prosecuted, and in my view that is was not prosecuted, and in my view that is something was not prosecuted, and in my view that is something that was not prosecuted, and in my view that is something that forever that is something that forever victims. That is something that forever victims, certain that is something that forever victims, certain victims, that is something that forever victims, certain victims, willi that is something that forever. Victims, certain victims, will be regretful victims, certain victims, will be regretful about. Victims, certain victims, will be regretful about. Victims, certain victims, will be regretful about. Chief constable, ou have regretful about. Chief constable, you have shone regretful about. Chief constable, you have shone a regretful about. Chief constable, you have shone a light regretful about. Chief constable, you have shone a light on regretful about. Chief constable, | you have shone a light on Freddie Scappaticci. Do you believe those high stakes strategy of handling agents continue around the world to this day . Agents continue around the world to this da . ~. Agents continue around the world to thisda . ~. This day . What i will say, with the introduction this day . What i will say, with the introduction of this day . What i will say, with the introduction of the this day . What i will say, with the introduction of the regulation this day . What i will say, with the introduction of the regulation and | introduction of the regulation and Investigator Of Powers Act in 2000, and the Investigator Of Powers Act in 2000, and the modernisation of policing and the modernisation of policing and the and the modernisation of policing and the Security Forces, the accountability measures, the other side thats accountability measures, the other side thats now in place around agent side thats now in place around agent recruitment, handling, deployment, would mean that these types deployment, would mean that these tvpes of deployment, would mean that these types of activities should never happen. Types of activities should never happen, certainly in the United Kingdom happen, certainly in the United Kingdom today. We mustnt forget that at kingdom today. We mustnt forget that at the time these events occurred. That at the time these events occurred, there was no framework and it was occurred, there was no framework and it was uniquely dangerous for the security it was uniquely dangerous for the Security Forces. I need to underscore that. And they reached out for underscore that. And they reached out for support. In my report, i talk out for support. In my report, i talk about out for support. In my report, i talk about efforts by the Security Forces talk about efforts by the Security Forces to talk about efforts by the Security Forces to seek a Legal Framework to help them forces to seek a Legal Framework to help them deal with the unique and hostile help them deal with the unique and hostile involve Operating Environments in Northern Ireland. That support not provided. Just the sort of that support not provided. Just the sort of activity occur elsewhere in the world . Sort of activity occur elsewhere in the world . I would hope it doesnt but i the world . I would hope it doesnt but i fear the world . I would hope it doesnt but i fear it the world . I would hope it doesnt but i fear it does. But certainly, none but i fear it does. But certainly, none of but i fear it does. But certainly, none of these activities could occur today none of these activities could occur today in none of these activities could occur today in the none of these activities could occur today in the United Kingdom, that includes today in the United Kingdom, that includes Northern Ireland, of course. Includes Northern Ireland, of course. , includes Northern Ireland, of course. ,. Course. Two constable, yesterday indicated that course. Two constable, yesterday indicated that you course. Two constable, yesterday indicated that you share. Course. Two constable, yesterday indicated that you share. Do course. Two constable, yesterday| indicated that you share. Do you think there is anything your team could have done better to get evidence that would have resulted in prosecution or do you think any chance of Prosecution Collapses . Tiara chance of Prosecution Collapses . Two thins chance of Prosecution Collapses . Two thin. S to chance of Prosecution Collapses . Two things to answer that question firstly. Things to answer that question firstly. The things to answer that question firstly, the focus things to answer that question firstly, the focus of things to answer that question firstly, the focus of the things to answer that question firstly, the focus of the kenova i firstly, the focus of the Kenova Investigations firstly, the focus of the Kenova Investigations was firstly, the focus of the Kenova Investigations was the firstly, the focus of the Kenova Investigations was the agent. Investigations was the Agent Stakeknife. Investigations was the Agent Stakeknife. That

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