Shes a prim looking stargazer. Gangs of new york. Id check my pockets if i was you, because i do believe she lifted your timepiece. And the aviator. We dont care about money here, mr hughes. Well, thats cause you have it. The departed, which brought scorsese his first best director oscar, and the wolf of wall street. I want you to deal with your problems by becoming rich in all, he has made more than 45 features, often crime films, and won numerous accolades. Its a very impressive body of work. His films have been influenced by his Italian American background and by his catholicism. He nearly always features Macho Posturing men and sometimes extreme violence. What i like about Martin Scorsese as a filmmaker is that his films are about something. They have moral weight. Also, he is incredible skilled as a director. He has his hallmark use of Rapid Editing at times, use of slow motion and freeze frames, and ingenious use of contemporary soundtracks. When people first heard that you were making this film, they were surprised because they thought it was very different in terms of Subject Matter from your previous work. Do you think it is a break in trend, or are there commonalities between this film and your previous films . After writing the script, some friends of ours whod read it said its similar in theme. I did sit down to interview Martin Scorsese 30 years ago when he made the age of innocence. Is there someone else . Someone else . Between you and me . What ive always liked about scorsese, in a way, is that he is an outsider. He has never really been part of a Hollywood Studio system. He has always made brilliant cinema, usually on his own terms. Now Martin Scorsese, at the age of 80, has made Killers Of A Flower Moon his first western. Whose land is this . My land. The crime saga featuring once again his two favourite actors dicaprio and de niro. The war hero has arrived. You made a good choice coming back here. 0ne critic has described it as a landmark Motion Picture achievement. I dont disagree. Evil surrounds my heart. At its heart, killers of the flower moon, inspired by a book, is about love and deceit. Why did you come here . But perhaps more than anything else, it is about naked greed. Money flows freely here now. I do love that money, sir. Its based on the true story of the orchestrated so called Reign Of Terror in the 1920s in oklahoma, in which more than 60 Native Americans were killed so white men could get their hands on the oil that lay beneath their land. There are many so many hungry wolves. 0il had made the 0sage nation extremely wealthy. When this money start coming, we shoulda known it came to something else. Ive met you on red carpets and junkets over the years. Yes, ive seen you over the years too. 0k, good i hope in a good way. Yes. Well, Martin Scorsese, a very big, warm welcome to talking movies. I saw your film Killers Of A Flower Moon, and ifound it very, very powerful. Why did you want to make it . Well, i was really drawn to the story in the sense that one of my favourite genres is the western. Wed all be much better off if there wasnt a single gun left in this valley. A gun is as good or bad as the man using it. Back in the � aos and � 50s, i grew up watching westerns. Growing up as an urban kid on the lower east side, living in tenaments, and not allowed to go near animals or run and play or do sports because i had asthma. Come back the western opened up vistas for Me In Black And White and technicolor, et cetera. Miller it was a fantasy land. What we could do is do. But Martin Scorsese did not want to just make a western. He also wanted to tell a story of historic injustice towards Native Americans, and ultimately he did not want it to be a white saviour story. More than a0 roles in his film are played by 0sage actors. He had long known of their suffering. Down in new yorks little italy, around Mulberry Street in lower manhattan, violence is the first rule of survival. His little italy upbringing helped him understand the story. There was a great deal of street crime, organised crime, et cetera. A pretty good area, pretty decent people, but there were a lot of people doing some bad things. And so i know that thinking, and i found it was the same thinking in this story. Now, you could take it from robbing somebody� s store, mugging somebody, lets say, or take it to the point of wiping out an indigenous nation. Theres a very little step that one could take, and so i wanted to immerse myself in that world. Well, look, im going to lay this out, kind of, and then were going to move it according to the drone. If you look at the history in hollywood and how it has portrayed Native Americans, do you believe there is a lot of catching up to do . And in a way, i mean, yourfilm does represent an effort to not just tell this story from the white persons point of view. Hollywood started working with the Native Americans, you know, thomas ince, demille. They made these silent films john ford. They had real Native Americans acting in them. In one case, a film i like very much directed by thomas ince, a two reeler called called the last of the line in which there Sessue Hayakawa plays a native american. They were still shifting and shuffling, because he was a very big star at the time. Right around the late � 20s and � 30s it changed, and that became the Box Office Stars portraying Native Americans. To talk of peace is not hard. To live it is very hard. There were attempts, really by some interesting film makers, delmer daves mainly. And i think the key one is broken arrow, to understand the native american, the indigenous. And i think broken arrow was the first film i saw in the beautiful technicolor actual rituals and cultural elements of the native american that was not necessarily warlike. There was devils doorway by anthony mann. If you are trying to say its feeling for me, then i dont believe you. Drum beat by delmer daves. I came to talk peace. But you talk about killing. Apache with burt lancaster. Im the Last Real Apache left in all of this world. Played by robert aldrich. So these were all attempts to understand the native american. However, all the Native Americans are played byjeff chandler, burt lancaster, charles bronson, that sort of thing, in order to get the box office. And that wasnt the case with your film . No, not at all. No. No, so, no matter what happens, no matter what approach i take, we have to make sure it is ok with all these guys. We have to go in there. I have to know who they are. And thats what happened. Chief geoff standing bear, we became, you know, good friends and we started going back and forth to oklahoma, and i became very friendly with many of the people there, and many of them are in the film now. Ijust love money. I love it as much as i love my wife. It is a period film, isnt it . It is set in oklahoma in the 1920s. But in many ways its about greedy white men doing terrible things to another race. Do you think that has contemporary relevance in America Today . That hasnt changed in america. It hasnt changed around the world. I mean, youre saying white, but there are others who do that too in different parts of the world. In terms of america, the struggle is always there. The struggle is always there. The opportunity to make a change is there too. The only thing is we have to know about it. We have to know about it. You cant hide it. You cant forbid people to read books or see films or see plays or hear certain music. You have to know about it. Let me ask you, if i may, about another matter which i know is very close to your heart, and that is Film Preservation. Why is it so important, to your mind, that we do make an effort to preserve old films and restore them wherever possible . I guess the first thing that comes to mind, its like saying why restore the vellum at the the library at oxford . Why conserve these books . You know, the knowledge in the books, the picture it gives us of who we are or who we were, the good things, the shameful things. These cant be swept under the rug. We have to know. We have to acknowledge it. Cinema has a lot of that, theres no doubt. But also ive been for years i really do believe it is a great art form. In fact, scorsese has been a passionate advocate for Film Preservation and has founded several organisations to that end. He has long been a fan of the celebrated british film making partnership of Michael Powell and emeric pressburge. Both directors died more than 30 years ago. Scorsese has sought to preserve their films, among them the 1948 the red shoes. Why do you want to dance . Why do you want to live . With its themes of passion and obsession. You shall dance and the world shall follow. Which had a huge impact on him. Thelma schoonmaker, scorseses long time editor, was married to Michael Powell, co director of the red shoes. She worked on the restoration. Thelma worked laborious work on that. Digital really helped us on that. We went back to the original negatives. But you know, i saw the film when i was about eight years old or nine years old. The images were so palpable, as if it was like taking a paintbrush and just brushing across the frame, but what struck me were the characters and this heightened, hyperworld of art and ballet. Particularly, the whole thing comes down to at one point she says i want to be a dancer, and he said, why do you want to dance . And she says, why do you want to live . Art can be that way. And as a child, i thought of that all the time. Can you live without if you can make art good, bad or indifferent can you live without it . Whats the point of living without it . Thats what you do. And so ultimately, their lives are sacrificed for it, all of them, really, sacrificed by the passion eats them up or devours them, i should say. And the passions up there on the screen, particularly in the ballet of the red shoes. The movie stops for 17 minutes. These days, i mean, up to a certain point in time, people went and saw films where sequences would come on for 20 minutes of a dance sequence, but it started with red shoes, and it was ballet. It wasnt the american in paris dance. Thats later and that was more modern dance. This is ballet, its different. Martin scorsese has long been a very authentic voice in the movie business. He generally speaks his mind, and four years ago in an interview with empire magazine, which has been oft quoted, he was asked what he thought of Marvel Superhero Films and he was quite forthright. He said to him they resembled a theme park, and they really werent cinema. Well, those remarks caused quite a stir. Not only is he not comfortable with marvel films, the whole Digital Revolution and the ascendancy of streaming seems to have left him very uncomfortable. Now, the revolution is so strong, its at the point at which sound was invented. I mean, in that sense with streaming, with cgi. Theyre in it to make money. You make money by making pictures people want to see. Higher, further, faster. That has always been the case, hasnt it . Its always been the case, but now the only ones theyre making are franchises and things. And some of them may be very good, by the way. Im just saying that that is not the only film, but that is what the studios are making. So, what i am saying is the money is there now for the franchise, for the action film, and thats where its going to stay. What is happening to me . And you dont seem to have a very high opinion of them . Oh, youre going back to what i said four years ago. You know, itried i tried to. Theyre not for me, but im trying as you get older, im trying to figure out where the hell to spend my time. I cant do it with them, i tried. I saw it. I did it. You know, i want to find other things, you see what i am saying . Scorsese knows he and other filmmakers are facing a changed landscape. He has to contend with a Viewing Audience that is more than ever fragmented and politically polarised. Also in an age where there is greater scrutiny about who is represented on the screen and how, scorsese moved with care to tell the story of the 0sage murders. He was determined that killers of the flower moon would give due weight to the indigenous characters. In fact, the soul of his new epic does not belong to the white man portrayed by Robert De Niro and leonardo dicaprio, but to a native American Woman played by Lily Gladstone. You have got nice coloured skin. What colour would you say that is . My colour. The film obviously has a male protagonist in it, but do you think the soul of your movie does belong to a woman in a way, Lily Gladstone . There is no doubt. Lily gladstone really is the heart of it. That is what leo said to me at one point. We were trying to work this script for 2 3 years and we got hit with covid, as Everyone Else did, and we did not know we were going to make the film, whether we would live or die. And if we were to proceed with the project, the way it was constructed by david grann in the book in an extraordinary way, it would become like a police procedural. And i like watching those films but i dont know if i can do them. And i tried to change and i tried to make it and tried to make it and then, finally, leo dicaprio, at one point, because he was going to play tom white. I was sent down from washington, dc, to see about these murders. And at one point, he came to me and said, wheres the heart of the picture . Isaid, huh. He said, what if i play ernest . K. I said, weve tried everything else. Speaks osage. Thats how you are. I dont know what she said but it mustve been indian for handsome devil. Laughs. The real insidious and sinister nature is the love relationship. I work for my uncle. Youre scared of him. Because thats the ultimate trust and betrayal. Does he really intend to kill her . I dont know. I think hes purely a weakling. Youre going to make trouble, make it big. How much more his uncle couldve forced him to pursue. We decided to go ahead, make him ernest, work with lily and create this relationship based on what we could put together from Family Members who were still alive who ernest was. But she is the one. And as Ellen Lewisjust showed me her in certain women, Kelly Reichardt film. Ijust know if i didnt start driving, i wasnt going to see you again. I didnt want that. And i saw that face and i saw what was going on with her eyes that i said, thats the one here. I said, shes really interesting. 0ne zoom call because of covid, we still couldnt fly around and immediately, i understood the intelligence and the heart that she had and the activism of her but also, the understanding of the love story. You dont operate in a vacuum. You are a director in contemporary america. This country is more polarised politically than ever. Do you feel that film can be a Unifying Force at all . Im not sure. I hope it can. It still is a form of communication. The problem i and i may be wrong on this its fragmented. That films are made for certain groups. Another group. Indies are indies. Films made for different gender, different sexuality, etc. Well, they should be films altogether, you know . Yes, you can find certain things you like in specific categories but one shouldnt what it is is that if those films are made for a good price and they bring back a certain amount of money, fine. Its almost like a token situation im concerned about. Yes, well, what are they complaining about . Those pictures are made. Well, no. We want them bigger. We want more audiences to see them. Bob, the kid doesnt look like a gangster yet. He has to look the shoes have got to be shined. Right. He has to i think he should wear a shirt and tie. Christie, i want you to be here. Martin scorsese has, at times, been a director for hire but has fought to make movies on his own terms, and its usually paid off at least in terms of artistic integrity. Killers of the flower moon became a big budget undertaking. It was bankrolled by Apple 0riginal films to the tune of 200 million. One of the things i found really rewarding about killers of the flower moon is that there was evidence of a single artistic vision your vision coming through, hopefully not interfered with on screen. You know, i also found that this year perhaps with barbie and Greta Gerwigs vision or Christopher Nolan and 0ppenheimer. I mean, how hard is it to make that kind of a film nowadays where your vision does prevail . The key there is the support from the financing in the case of our in the case of apple, for example. Once i gave them the idea of how we wanted to approach the story and what we wanted to do, they were open to me exploring every aspect. I kept changing it as we went along and i kept adding more and more of the rituals and the cultural aspects of the osage. I never felt that there were people looking over my shoulder. You could say, well, thats because you are who you are. Yeah, but im 80 years old now, all right, so now, i was able to make a picture with nobody looking over my shoulder, in a sense. If they were, they were very quiet, so that they were always supporting to get what i wanted, you know, on screen. Let me ask you you mentioned getting older. I mean, actually, im only ten years behind you im 70. Oh, my. i remember you when you had a no white in the moustache. 0k, well. Chuckles. Thats true. Now, look at this you look pretty good, let me tell you. But how does getting older affect the kinds of storytelling that you want to do as a film maker . Are there films that you feel youve got to do before its too late . I know, and the funny thing is i have a few i really want to do. I hope i can make it. It comes down to whats in the frame, where to place that camera and where to spend whatever time is left to your life telling a story. Is it worth the deal . Well, thats all from little italy and our talking movies Martin Scorsese special. Were going to leave you with one of my favourite moments of new york Martin Scorsese cinema. It comes from the 1990 Film Goodfellas and is a highly orchestrated three minute Tracking Shot that begins outside the old new york copacabana nightclub. It really is wondrous cinema. Thank you, sir. See you later. Thanks. What are you doing . Youre leaving your car . Let me just finish now by telling you that i remember your work orfilm maker� s work by kind of moments, and theres a great moment in goodfellas when ray liotta takes Lorraine Bracco into the copacabana. Oh, yes. And its a Tracking Shot. Its an incredible shot. Was that i mean, i kind of cry when i watch that. Was that hard to orchestrate . Well, yes. However, we used the real copa, we used the real lobby and back area and through the kitchen. We would go in at rehearsal and say, i need this here, i need this here, i need this here, and i had the main actors i had ray and lorraine and even the real maitre d of the copa, who we sees him slip him some money, gets him the table. You pan over and the table comes by. When i used to go to the copa, thats what it was. You know, we always thought you had great ringside seats to see the show and just before the show started, three Orfour Tables would fly in the air, right in front of you. Big wise guys would come and sit in front of you. Laughs. You couldnt see a thing and you couldnt say anything so, they did a beautifuljob. Well, it was a really magical moment. Look, Martin Scorsese, thank you so much for doing this interview. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Hello. Although storm babet is now easing away, well continue to see flooding and disruption over the next day or so. Now, lets just take a look at where the rain has fallen over the past 2a hours. Its been heavy and persistent across parts of england, wales and particularly for northern and eastern scotland, too. If we have a look atjust how much rain has fallen since wednesday with this storm babet, many areas have seen between 100 and 200mm. Now, for places, thats almost twice the expected monthly rainfall. Thankfully, though, sunday is looking drier with lighter winds, too, so a window of much quieter weather on the way. For the rest of the overnight period through into the early hours of monday, still a few showers around across the far north of scotland, one or two in the west. Elsewhere, 2 9 degrees are overnight lows for most of us. Could be a touch cooler first thing in the countryside. But the low pressure thats been such a troublemaker over recent days is drifting away towards the north on sunday. The isobars become more widely spaced, showing that its not going to be as windy as it has been the breeze just coming in from a westerly direction. So, thatll bring one or two showers for north west scotland, perhaps a few for wales, the South West Of England as well. But as they drift eastwards, they tend to ease away, so much drier, thankfully, for eastern scotland, right down towards east anglia in the southeast. A largely dry day towards northern ireland, too, and temperatures ranging between around about ten for stornoway to about 16 down towards the london region. But then, we will see the next area of low pressure just moving in later on monday. Now, this is storm bernard. Its been named by the portuguese Weather Service and its going to bring the next spell of wet and windy weather on monday. So, we start off monday on a dry note. Some mist and some fog patches. Could be a touch of frost. But it clouds over from the south and during the afternoon, this area of rain will spill its way in. To the north of that, most places looking dry, around about 10 16 degrees, but the wet and the windy weather in the south Willjust Push its way a little bit further north. So, into tuesday, you can see where were expecting to see some showers around, turning a little bit breezy again towards the east coast. A bit of uncertainty exactly where this rainfall is going to be by this stage but could be quite unwelcome for some of us. Turning a little bit milder as we see The Rain Coming in from the south after that window of drier weather for some of us sunday into monday. Things really are looking fairly autumnal and unsettled through much of the week ahead. Bye for now. Gladstone. Live from washington, this is bbc news. Israels military says it is stepping up its airstrikes on gaza to put further pressure on hamas ahead of a possible major Ground Offensive. The un says it is negotiating for a second convoy of aid to be allowed into gaza on sunday. 20 truckloads crossed from egypt earlier, the first since israel imposed a total siege on the strip. And a message from the family of the american hostages released by hamas, as efforts to free the remaining captives continue im helena humphrey, good to have you with us. Israel warns its going to step up its bombardment of the gaza strip ahead of an expected Ground Offensive against hamas. And injust the past hour, israeli airstrikes have been reported on a Mosque Injenin in the west bank. The Israeli Defense forces claim they were targeting an underground route used by a hamas cell. Palestinian Health Officials say two people were killed. The strikes in the west bank come as the Israeli Military warns civilians in gaza to keep moving south for their own safety, as it prepares to increase pressure on hamas militants there. The idf says campaign is intended to reduce the risk to Israeli Forces when they enter the next phase of the war
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