Transcripts For BBCNEWS The 20240703

Of food and water left for two million palestinians. Well keep our Eye Onjoint Base Andrew where us President Joe Biden is about to leave for israel. There has already been again reaction tonight from egypt and canada, Justin Trudeau said an attack on any hospital is a war crime. On the panel tonight, author and journalist rachel shabi, and from washington, columnist and broadcaster carrie sheffield. Good evening. The Al Ahli Baptist hospital is well known in gaza not far, in fact, from the bbc office. And in recent days, it would have been one of the places in gaza city in which hundreds of families would seek refuge. But tonight the reports are that hundreds have been killed, some still under the rubble, after a devastating explosion. Hamas says an israeli air strike hit the Main Building in which people were sheltering, the Health Ministry says as many as 1000 people may have been killed or injured. The Pictures Emerging Show A Scene Of Utter chaos with bloodied and maimed casualties being rushed out on stretchers in the darkness. There are bodies and wrecked vehicles in the rubble outside. We have seen a video of the explosion, but we cant yet independely verify it or tell you with any certainty what caused it. All the hospitals are providing refuge for people trying to escape the bombing, so the casualties figures would make sense. The Israeli Army Says it is investigating and will report shortly. It says an analysis of idf operational system indicates that a barrage of rockets was fired by terrorists in gaza passing in close proximity to the al ahli arab Baptist Hospital when it was had. Intelligence from multiple sources indicates that islamicjihad is responsible for the failed Rocket Launch which hit this hospital and dies out. We will continue to put the questions to the relevant people, but this is quite the bank drop for bidens trip to israel tonight. He is due to the washington and the next hour. Pretty unprecedented for a us president to head into a Conflict Zone with only a few days notice. A lot of thought had already gone into this visit and what it would mean for the white house by association. Blasting the president would want while he is there is for israel to launch a Ground Offensive without the humanitarian aid in place. This Attack Tonightjust adds humanitarian aid in place. This attack tonight just adds another layer. We will not speak to laura bloom and failed, thank you very much for coming on. We have heard that the reaction from the palestinians, weve heard from the Israeli Government. Has there been any reaction from the white house . One thing is clear, there is tremendous trauma, and sitting here in washington, i can also tell you that President Biden is good at grief. Regardless of who, you know, who is responsible, he connects to grief and suffering on an intimate visceral level because of the own suffering he has experienced in his life. For him and for the white house, this moment is all about leadership. I mean, it is a big and risky move when the boots on the ground in a war zone belong to the commander in chief. So what is he doing . I would say he is taking a now and later approach. He is coming to say stop the war and also trying to say stop the war and also trying to see the region for peace ater. You think is coming to say stop the work . He you think is coming to say stop the work . ,. ,. , you think is coming to say stop the work . , ,. , you think is coming to say stop the work . ,. ,. ,. Work . He is coming to saline at the war, but by work . He is coming to saline at the war. But by step work . He is coming to saline at the war, but by stop the work . He is coming to saline at the war, but by stop the whining, work . He is coming to saline at the war, but by stop the whining, yes, | war, but by stop the whining, yes, he is coming to say, israel, weve got your back, but hes whispering quite loudly in their ears, then at the suffering, then it. Increase aid to the palestinians. So he is there to deter and to prevent a wider warfrom there to deter and to prevent a wider war from escalating. There to deter and to prevent a wider warfrom escalating. It there to deter and to prevent a wider war from escalating. If he is intent on it wider war from escalating. If he is intent on it not wider war from escalating. If he is intent on it not escalating, wider war from escalating. If he is intent on it not escalating, he wider war from escalating. If he is intent on it not escalating, he willj intent on it not escalating, he will be pretty alarmed by the pictures we are looking at on screen of ramallah tonight in the west bank. We have heard angry statements from the jordanian king, from the egyptian president. We have already had plenty of Sabre Rattling from the Iranian Foreign minister. Does this stoke the fire further and will there be concern in washington tonight that the conflict is about tonight that the conflict is about to spread . Tonight that the conflict is about tosread . ~ , a. , to spread . Absolutely. As tremendous concern. To spread . Absolutely. As tremendous concern the to spread . Absolutely. As tremendous concern. The stakes to spread . Absolutely. As tremendous concern. The stakes couldnt to spread . Absolutely. As tremendous concern. The stakes couldnt be concern. The stakes couldnt be higher. I think for biden, his approach is go bag and go home. He is coming to the holy land, this is an area he has been visiting for many decades of his life. You can see it in the intensity around his eyes when he has been talking for the last ten days since the crisis started. I think he is coming, really come as a present committed to the region, saying we have seen an eye for an eye, weve seen turn the other cheek. Im offering a third way, a transformation. The white house goals over the past with the administration had been for Regional Cooperation and integration, and this isnt the way they thought they would get there. Its almost a bloodied referendum on the Abraham Accords and the swing stateside the arab nations. He is looking to arab partners to pull through this and bring everybody to a more positive conclusion. He certainly has personal relationships with these people. He had 30 or a0 years in the senate and the Foreign Relations committee. Its got to know them as the Vice President , and of course while serving president , showing up counts. Nothing really replaces face to face diplomacy, but it is not a particularly cosy relationship with benjamin netanyahu. Can he trust him . He is sort of like netanyahu. Can he trust him . He is sort of like uncle netanyahu. Can he trust him . He is sort of like uncle joe netanyahu. Can he trust him . He is sort of like uncle joe and sort of Like Unclejoe and then there are these three combat prowess. Its notjust benjamin netanyahu, it is banning guns, the chairman of thejoint netanyahu, it is banning guns, the chairman of the joint chiefs and the defence ministerfor, i have interviewed him. He is physically imposing. That said, iran is really a priority, and there is the wider world that china and russia are watching. I dont know if you saw pictures of pollutant in beijing looking at the president of china. They looked like they were ready to beat each other wedding cake. Its bigger than the region. Its more Thanjust Biden and bigger than the region. Its more than just biden and netanyahu. Bigger than the region. Its more Thanjust Biden and netanyahu. This is big. Taste than just biden and netanyahu. This is bi. ,. , than just biden and netanyahu. This isbiu. ,. ,. , than just biden and netanyahu. This isbi. ,. ,. ,. Is big. We should also remember that when ou is big. We should also remember that when you talk is big. We should also remember that when you talk about is big. We should also remember that when you talk about russia is big. We should also remember that when you talk about russia china, i when you talk about russia china, obviously there is a connection with iran as well. Do you think they are in commute to Connect Munication To Tehran and make they behind some of the statements weve heard . For ears, the statements weve heard . For years. We the statements weve heard . For years. We have the statements weve heard . Fr . Years, we have been hearing from the white house, all options are on the table. You might notice that the message is whittled down to one word, dont. When they put out messages like make no mistake, we will take action, but they are trying to say is we will match words with deeds this time because we saw in previous administrations, like when president asad gassed his own civilians during the obama presidency, we failed to take action. And part of this is an opportunity for the United States to make up for mistakes they have made in the past, whether it was Regime Change in iraq, a chaotic withdraw from afghanistan. And think biden is coming to the middle east to say that we are going to get this right. Laura, get to talk to this evening. Thank you for coming on the programme. Rachel, can i get your reaction to what we see tonight and what we have heard from both sides . What we are seeing tonight, the hospital what we are seeing tonight, the hospital at gaza city is extraordinarily awful, notjust in terms extraordinarily awful, notjust in terms of extraordinarily awful, notjust in terms of the carnage and the lost tives terms of the carnage and the lost lives in terms of the carnage and the lost lives in itself over 500 people kitted. Lives in itself over 500 people killed, and as we say come its not ust killed, and as we say come its not just the killed, and as we say come its not just the hospital, its a place where just the hospital, its a place where people are seeking shelter, seeking where people are seeking shelter, seeking refuge from israels Area Bombardments in an area in the gaza strip where bombardments in an area in the gaza strip where there arent very many areas strip where there arent very many areas for strip where there arent very many areas for shelter. So that in itself is horrendous. But then we have the reality is horrendous. But then we have the reality that is horrendous. But then we have the reality that that is so awful that it risks reality that that is so awful that it risks being a giant Tipping Point in the it risks being a giant Tipping Point in the region. Weve already come as he had in the region. Weve already come as he had been in the region. Weve already come as he had been reporting, we have seen demonstrations in the occupied west bank in demonstrations in the occupied west bank In Ramallah Escalate rapidly. They have bank In Ramallah Escalate rapidly. They have become very angry, protests they have become very angry, protests against the president , palestinian president , he himself is apparently reportedly on his way back from amnon, jordan. He was expected back from amnon, jordan. He was expected to back from amnon, jordan. He was expected to meet biden, joe biden tomorrow expected to meet biden, joe biden tomorrow in a meeting there. Hes no longer tomorrow in a meeting there. Hes no longer doing tomorrow in a meeting there. Hes no longer doing that. So that is a very bad signat longer doing that. So that is a very bad signal in itself. We are also hearing bad signal in itself. We are also hearing a bad signal in itself. We are also hearing a protests in light of what hasjust hearing a protests in light of what hasjust happened at hearing a protests in light of what has just happened at that hearing a protests in light of what hasjust happened at that hospital in gaza, hasjust happened at that hospital in gaza, and as he just said, egypt has been in gaza, and as he just said, egypt has been similarly serious. So if biden has been similarly serious. So if biden is has been similarly serious. So if biden is on has been similarly serious. So if biden is on his way to that region to try biden is on his way to that region to try to biden is on his way to that region to try to stitch together some kind of attiance to try to stitch together some kind of alliance to build agreement toward of alliance to build agreement toward egypt, saudi arabia, the palestinian west bank, the chances of that palestinian west bank, the chances of that are palestinian west bank, the chances of that are not looking great at the moment of that are not looking great at the moment. ,. , moment. No. Indeed so. It is so difficult picking moment. No. Indeed so. It is so difficult picking your moment. No. Indeed so. It is so difficult picking your way moment. No. Indeed so. It is so| difficult picking your way through the story and trying to get to the truth of what is unfolding. I spoke to mark in the last hourjust to talk to them about the fuel as well which the israeli say came across the border yesterday, the un representatives in gaza said that that was their fuel that went to their facilities and mark says, welcome it was redirected by mice. It is so difficult from this far away with no reporting on the ground to actually get to the truth of what is happening, and it is really frustrating. Is happening, and it is really frustratina. ,. , frustrating. Yes, it is far more difficult to frustrating. Yes, it is far more difficult to hear frustrating. Yes, it is far more difficult to hear in frustrating. Yes, it is far more difficult to hear in real frustrating. Yes, it is far more difficult to hear in real time i frustrating. Yes, it is far more i difficult to hear in real time what is happening, but i want to take a step back and talk about what we know about thomas. Im a former Jerusalem Post reporter and i was on the ground covering deaths in jerusalem. Thomass Founding Charter says that it wants to slaughter israel and it wants to slaughter the dues. Jews. Our Hospital Attack and our heart goes out to all these innocent patients who are suffering who should never have been victim to this. But the likelihood of hamas actually being responsible i think is actually well within the target of what we know about hamas, that it has a history of creating home grown Explosive Devices that are very unreliable, but they have a record of using human shields, so they would have no qualms about using their own people as fodder, they are reportedly blocking their own people from leaving and evacuating to create a humanitarian crisis because they want to shield them from accountability, they want to shield against the idf from going in and rescuing these israeli civilians who have been taken captive as hostages. And with all due respect to your previous reporter, i strongly disagree with her assessment ofjoe biden. I think part of the result of joe bidens weakness, not on the in the us withdraw from afghanistan, that It Signal Weakness to put in. Put ins invasion of ukraine and i received a distraction. Put in is laughing right now. Hes excited, in fact, a hamas spokesperson said, this is good for russia that the United States is distracted in the middle east. Joe bidens reactionary. He is an utterfailure as a president. Taste reactionary. He is an utter failure as a president. Reactionary. He is an utter failure as a president. We will come back to ma be as a president. We will come back to maybe some as a president. We will come back to maybe some of as a president. We will come back to maybe some of those as a president. We will come back to maybe some of those points. As a president. We will come back to maybe some of those points. I as a president. We will come back to maybe some of those points. Ijust l maybe some of those points. Ijust want to focus for a minute, take a step back. We will talk to plenty of palestinians tonight as well, but i want to go to the issue of the hostages and the efforts that are ongoing to secure their release. Imagine if you are one of the families tonight looking at this horrific picture in gaza and what has happened to the hospital and wondering what that means for your Family Members that hamas are holding. We know that meetings are taking place in the capital of qatar where some of the hamas leaders lead. One of those negotiators as oliver, the co founder of the conflict Mediation Group in a forward thinking. He was involved in years of talks that led to the eventual release of the last hostage held in gaza, the israeli soldier who has been waiting very patiently for us. My apologies for how long you have been captivating. And you for your time this evening. You go in as a non state actor and you have been there many times. What do you make of what you are seeing tonight and the reactions on all sides to it . ,. ,. , u, and the reactions on all sides to it . ,. ,. ,. ,. , it . First of all can a christian, it is deel it . First of all can a christian, it is deeply depressing, it . First of all can a christian, it is deeply depressing, not it . First of all can a christian, it is deeply depressing, notjust i is deeply depressing, notjust tonights events, but the whole of the week from the seventh onwards. But what i found equally depressing tonight is the spin that people feel they have to give. We always say that truth is the First Casualty of war, well, what happened tonight, i think what matters, it underlines the need for an immediate cessation of hostilities. I think to get in the Spin Argument saying this and repetition of erroneous facts, unchecked facts is just clouding our vision that people are dying needlessly. And i think if biden arrives tomorrow, he should have one clear message, stop the fighting immediately. There will be no solution to the palestinian israeli conflict with this cycle of violence. That is the first thing i would like to say. Coming onto your question about the hostages, whether tonights incidents will in fact. Festival, i would have great empathy for the families both of the victims tonight and the families of the hostages being held in gaza. I and media the sixth or 7th Of October said and sent a clear message that all the Noncombatant Hostages should be released immediately without any conditions. I think it is totally unacceptable either to kill people indiscriminately or to take hostages indiscriminately. I think that is the starting point. But before anything can happen in terms of negotiation, in terms of discussion, it has to be a cessation of this hostility. It is an endless cycle of needless violence that is costing human lives and the suffering that goes with that. Goes with that. Strategic mistakes can be made goes with that. Strategic mistakes can be made when goes with that. Strategic mistakes can be made when the goes with that. Strategic mistakes can be made when the blood goes with that. Strategic mistakes can be made when the blood is. Can be made when the blood is boiling, and obviously the blood is boiling, and obviously the blood is boiling injury some right now because of the awful things that happened ten days ago. Do you think that Prime Minister netanyahu can be talked down from a Ground Incursion in light of these awful events that we are looking at tonight . Christian, he needs to be talked down. What israel needs now more than anything our honest friends. Israel is in trauma. I talked with various people this morning. As raley� s, political, military, it is in trauma. It is not capable of making rational decisions are seeing the consequences of these decisions in their immediate region. Last week, i spent the whole of the week with officials, Foreign Ministry officials and experts related to the ministries from the immediate region. There was a total, total negative reaction towards israels response to the atrocities that happened on the 7th Of October. No one can justify those, no one. But we also have to question the subsequent actions. We owe the jewish tradition this wonderful eye for an eye, tooth for tooth, it became what was known as the law of retaliation. And it was basically there to say any retaliation must be in measure with the original act. And that has been incorporated into our international law, a rule based society that we try to, the world order that is based on rule. What we are witnessing is actually a disintegration of that, and a failure of politicians, particularly in the west to stand up for these principles, to actually, what i fear, is what we are witnessing from it they are putting their short term interests, electioneering instead of standing up and accepting the consequences of giving witness to the fundamental principles that we need notjust in the region in order to govern relationships in the beach but globally. To govern relationships in the beach but globally but globally. Obviously there are negotiations but globally. Obviously there are negotiations ongoing but globally. Obviously there are negotiations ongoing in but globally. Obviously there are negotiations ongoing in the negotiations ongoing in the background in qatar. And you have been party to some of these discussions. As hejust said to spoken to people. Can you tell us, is there a separation between the people you are talking to in the group on the ground who are holding the hostages, and is there any hope that you can give to families who would be watching and worrying, perhaps raiding more tonight after the events we have seen . Christian, hostaaes the events we have seen . Christian, hostages are the events we have seen . Christian, hostages are taken the events we have seen . Christian, hostages are taken rightly the events we have seen . Christian, hostages are taken rightly or hostages are taken rightly or wrongly, and i dont condone it, but i am trying to explain it. Hostages are taken as leverage to release palestinian prisoners that will spend their life in israeli jails. There is no mechanism and that was recognised in the negotiations. There is no mechanism to really review long term prison sentences, and so the hostages rightly or wrongly, i would say, are taken to give leverage so that negotiations can take place. They are the most precious commodity, god forgive me, using that term of human beings, but in terms of negotiation, they are very precious. So i can see. Result or danger to the hostages because of what happened tonight. I think what we should be, but before any progress can be made on any discussion and it was made very clear to me there was a willingness to release the noncombatants. Now, before anything can happen, you have to have a temporary cessation of the violence. You have to have conditions in which hostages can be moved to negotiations can take place. Coming back to your original question of what is the relationship between the people outside of the Political Leadership in the militant leadership, i think what we have witnessed is through the unwillingness of western governments in particular, to enter into some sort of dialogue has happened in my own country, to enter into that sort of inclusive dialogue, we see the Political Leadership loses the sort of Decision Making power and it goes into the hands of the people who opt for a Military Solution, and ifear that will always happen until we start an inclusive process of dialogue that can try and bring an end once and for all to this cycle of madness that we are witnessing. Amen to that. Oliver, thank you very much indeed for your thoughts this evening. I do intend to get to our panel in short order. Its a busy night as you can imagine. It lets bring in tom bateman for an update. A statement here from the Prime Ministers office, mr netanyahu sang barbaric terrorists in gaza attacked the gaza hospital, not the idf, of grace, we have had contrary statements to that from eyewitnesses on the ground. Do you think the Israeli Government is going to be able to present the evidence that this was a rocket that was outgoing rather than when incoming . Weill. This was a rocket that was outgoing rather than when incoming . Well, i am sure they rather than when incoming . Well, i am sure they will rather than when incoming . Well, i am sure they will try rather than when incoming . Well, i am sure they will try to rather than when incoming . Well, i am sure they will try to do that am sure they will try to do that over the coming hours or days, but the point is here as he said, what we have at the moment claim and counterclaim. It think its important that you spoke to a witness in an hour ago who said as far as he was concerned, this was two missiles fired from aircraft overhead. In terms of independently verifying desk and its incredibly difficult because the especially in the early stages, look at the environment, how do we normally check these things because not being able to independently get to the scene and check fragments can around in submunitions, obviously in this situation permits honest and possible to do that. There isnt much mobile phone footage so far as far as we are aware of what actually happened before and what caused the explosion. Theres not much power in gaza. So im not clear we will get a huge amount of footage. And as you say, the civil defence, the Palestinian Health authority in gaza saying this was an israeli air strike. You have Mark Speaking for the Israeli Government saying that they are early indications are that this is a palestinian missile falling short. I have to say that my expense at the situations is to treat all of this with extreme caution. Weve known in the past there have been statements from the Israeli Military at high Profile Events wane over time the evidence hasnt supported the early claims. They have called these there early indications. I think its very sensible to wait. Indications. I think its very sensible to wait. Thank you very much for that. Sensible to wait. Thank you very much for that. Rachel, sensible to wait. Thank you very much for that. Rachel, that sensible to wait. Thank you very much for that. Rachel, that was | sensible to wait. Thank you very. Much for that. Rachel, that was a really important point, yes, we will have to wait, but i suppose Whenjoe Biden arrives tomorrow, given that he is the one who is going to be answering the questions, he is going to want to see some evidence. He miaht to want to see some evidence. He might want to see some evidence, but ithink might want to see some evidence, but i think that might want to see some evidence, but i think that the important thing here i think that the important thing here is i think that the important thing here is exactly what your previous test was here is exactly what your previous test was saying is the utmost imperative for a cease fire right now because this really is a horrific now because this really is a horrific attack, and as you say, there horrific attack, and as you say, there was horrific attack, and as you say, there was an eyewitness, you just interviewed them who said that they saw air interviewed them who said that they saw air strikes that were coming from saw air strikes that were coming from the saw air strikes that were coming from the air. So therefore not hamas or istamic from the air. So therefore not hamas or islamichhad. You are right that that needs or islamichhad. You are right that that needs to be verified. To or islamichhad. You are right that that needs to be verified. That needs to be verified. To be honest, that needs to be verified. To be honest. We that needs to be verified. To be honest, we can that needs to be verified. To be honest, we can put that needs to be verified. To be honest, we can put that that needs to be verified. To be l honest, we can put that cleaning time to come to one side. The fact that there is this intense bombardment in an area where people are means that they been shepherded into. That had to go into hospital because they dont feel safe in their homes. Isnt that the planes . Their a000 People Living in hospital without food and water. There needs to be a humanitarian solution for plenty of palestinians who had nothing to do with hamas. L plenty of palestinians who had nothing to do with hamas. I think thats exactly nothing to do with hamas. I think thats exactly it. Nothing to do with hamas. I think thats exactly it. The nothing to do with hamas. I think thats exactly it. The neck nothing to do with hamas. I think thats exactly it. The neck i nothing to do with hamas. I think thats exactly it. The neck i reallyj thats exactly it. The neck i really do. Look, the whole point of all of this week all do. Look, the whole point of all of this wee <. ,. , this week of every humanitarian body can every ablebodied this week of every humanitarian body can every ablebodied can this week of every humanitarian body can every ablebodied can every this week of every humanitarian body can every ablebodied can every arm| can every able bodied can every arm of the can every able bodied can every arm ofthe un can every able bodied can every arm of the un and many more urgently warning of the un and many more urgently warning about the consequences of israeti warning about the consequences of israeti air warning about the consequences of israeli air strikes on the Gaza Strip Israeli air strikes on the gaza strip is israeli air strikes on the gaza strip is exactly this is exactly the likelihood strip is exactly this is exactly the likelihood of something horrible, horrifying like this happen because gaza is horrifying like this happen because gaza is a horrifying like this happen because gaza is a sealed strip. This 2. 2 million gaza is a sealed strip. This 2. 2 million People Living there. Half of them million People Living there. Half of them are million People Living there. Half of them are children. Theres nowhere for them them are children. Theres nowhere for them to them are children. Theres nowhere for them to go. Because they have had five for them to go. Because they have had five previous israeli air strikes had five previous israeli air strikes in had five previous israeli air strikes in the last 16 years, two of them strikes in the last 16 years, two of them particularly deadly, thousands kitted. Them particularly deadly, thousands killed, hundreds of children each time killed, hundreds of children each time the killed, hundreds of children each time the rebuild is weaker, the buildings time the rebuild is weaker, the buildings are weaker because israel wont buildings are weaker because israel wont let buildings are weaker because israel wont let Building Materials back in. Wont let Building Materials back in and wont let Building Materials back in and so wont let Building Materials back in. And so each time its even more weekend in. And so each time its even more weekend and in. And so each time its even more weekend and even more frail and even more weekend and even more frail and even more susceptible, and that is exactly more susceptible, and that is exactly why everybody has been so urgently exactly why everybody has been so urgently warning of the madness of an israeti urgently warning of the madness of an israeli air strike on the gaza strip an israeli air strike on the gaza strip 0t an israeli air strike on the gaza strip. Of course we understand what happened strip. Of course we understand what happened in israel was horrific and everybody happened in israel was horrific and everybody is in trauma. Everybody in Israet Everybody is in trauma. Everybody in israet is everybody is in trauma. Everybody in israet is in everybody is in trauma. Everybody in israel is in trauma. Everybody knows somebody israel is in trauma. Everybody knows somebody who is either killed or taken somebody who is either killed or taken hostage. There is no Military Solution taken hostage. There is no Military Solution to taken hostage. There is no Military Solution to this. It can only be political solution to this. It can only be political. Its notjust the gaza strip political. Its notjust the gaza strip we political. Its notjust the gaza strip we are talking about, it is decades strip we are talking about, it is decades of an Israeli Occupation that has decades of an Israeli Occupation that has brutalised and inflicts violence that has brutalised and inflicts violence on palestinians constantly. That is violence on palestinians constantly. That is the violence on palestinians constantly. That is the background. That is the context that is the background. That is the context. And that is the bet, i have to say, context. And that is the bet, i have to say, that context. And that is the bet, i have to say, that the international community, primarily the us can has consistently community, primarily the us can has consistently failed to do anything about consistently failed to do anything about. Failed to bring israel to the negotiating table, but rather has given negotiating table, but rather has given it negotiating table, but rather has given It Constant Immunity and allowed given It Constant Immunity and allowed it to believe that this sort of status allowed it to believe that this sort of status quo was in any way sustainable, as we can see, it isnt sustainable, as we can see, it isnt it sustainable, as we can see, it isnt. � ,. , sustainable, as we can see, it isnt. ,. ,. , isnt. A statement from the hamas leader, isnt. A statement from the hamas leader. This isnt. A statement from the hamas leader, this has isnt. A statement from the hamas leader, this has been isnt. A statement from the hamas leader, this has been televised isnt. A statement from the hamas| leader, this has been televised this evening in lebanon, but we will check that. Basically he is saying that washington gave israel the coverfor that washington gave israel the cover for its aggression. The Hospital Massacre confirms the enemys brutality and called on the Palestinian People to get out and confronts the occupation and the settlers. He is also called on arabs across the region to come out as well. Can i talk Aboutjoe Biden who is about to leave the white house for israel, an enormous gamble for him coming to the beach and at this particular moment. What do you think will be uppermost in his mind . I do will be uppermost in his mind . I do think he well will be uppermost in his mind . L u think he well went to see a reduction in, you know, he wants a cease fire, and we do want to see a limiting of the bloodshed. I will completely and vigorously disagree with my co panelist. This is not an occupation by any definition of the word. Israel left gaza in 2005. However, the Violent Hamas who Founding Charter again because for the annihilation of israel has repeatedly and horrifically over many years now assaulted the israeli people by launching rocket attacks unprovoked. They started all of this. Every single instance where israel defended itself was because hamas began it. Hamas began to slaughter. Israel has always been hospitable. There is a reported 16,000 workers who would go in peacefully from gaza into israel, work, get wages. Its an even more of an Economic Exchange between the west bank and israel. Israel has always been open for peace, israel has always been open, and what do they get for their openness . They get the slaughter of innocent as neckin get the slaughter of innocent as neck in their cribs. Get the slaughter of innocent as neck in their cribs. Does not really true of the neck in their cribs. Does not really true of the way neck in their cribs. Does not really true of the way the neck in their cribs. Does not really true of the way the israeli true of the way the Israeli Government has operated in their last few years . The expansion of the settlements in the west bank is make the denying of freedom to palestinians in the west bank where hamas is not . Is that not that kind of approach to, well, and wider terms, the approach to the two State Solution of this government that is undermined any chance of peace in the middle east. Lm undermined any chance of peace in the middle east. The middle east. Im not going to defend every the middle east. Im not going to defend every single the middle east. Im not going to defend every single action the middle east. Im not going to defend every single action or the middle east. Im not going to i defend every single action or every single move. I will say broadly though that the Israeli Government has always pushed for peace, has always pushed for a two State Solution whereas hamas and those who support these palestinian terrorists have called for a regime of the West Bank Ofjordan to the sea, as in the annihilation of israel. And the fact of the matter is thejewish people have been in this land. You have more than a0 arab countries in the region and only onejewish country in the region, so how is it that the Hamas Founding government documents caused by the destruction of israel and in any way that is perceived with any sort of legitimacy at the united nations. And then you have the un itself reporting that hamas is taking the supplies that are meant for the civilian sentiment to alleviate this humanitarian crisis, and they are taking it. Its a horrific loss of resources that the us unfortunately is funding. Just went to show us unfortunately is funding. Just went to show our viewers some of the pictures. Before i do, i want to give you a warning that some of these photos are pretty awful to look at. There is a short of set of supplies and space, as we were telling you in the last hour, doctors are treating people on the pavements outside the hospital and on the floor of the hospitals because theyjust dont have any bed space left. Lets speak to the palestinian General Secretary of the Palestinian National initiative. Very tense night this evening in ramallah. The president ial palace, what can you tell me first of all about what you know from gaza about this strike on the hospital . The hospital . When this, this was totall on the hospital . When this, this was totally on justified the hospital . When this, this was totally on justified legitimate