Friends, Collaborating On Art Projects with other students. What i actually got. Was an online degree delivered in my bedroom. Hi, good evening. Tonight whod be a student in 2023 . Ahead of a level results, btecs and other exams in england, wales and Northern Ireland tomorrow, we devote our programme tonight to finding out whether the class of 2023 sixth formers and those doing degrees and graduating this summer are perhaps the unluckiest group of students for a generation. If you have a relevant experience, wherever you are in the country, then do whatsapp me on 07977 701980. If youre a student, youll know about the pretty tough time youve had over the last few years, with covid and teaching strikes disrupting your education, a Cost Of Living crisis, and when you graduate, leaving with about £45,000 of debt, which in many cases you will repay earlier and for longer. And yet despite all that, a record 320,00018 year olds appplied for uni last year, and most students will graduate as normal with their degree awarded to them, this summer, despite the Marking Boycott. For a level students in england, wales and northern irleand, your results tomorrow will be back to pre covid 2019 grades, after those teacher assessed grades during the pandemic inflated results last summer and the one before. According to englands Education Secretary, that means around 100,000 fewer a and a grades this year. So, how are some of our guests here tonight feeling about all of that . Welcome, all of you. Jayden, you get your a level results tomorrow, how are you feeling . Im your alevel results tomorrow, how are you feeling . Your alevel results tomorrow, how are you feeling . Im feeling nervous about it. Are you feeling . Im feeling nervous about it its are you feeling . Im feeling nervous about it. Its mostly are you feeling . Im feeling nervous about it. Its mostly about are you feeling . Im feeling nervous about it. Its mostly about the about it. Its mostly about the uncertainty. Ive put in quite a lot of work but i dont know if thats paid off or not. As you said, the Grade Deflation thats going to be happening this year, theres going to be so many fewer a and as, will i be a part of that . Do to be so many fewer a and as, will i be a part of that . I be a part of that . Do you think it is fair that i be a part of that . Do you think it is fair that the i be a part of that . Do you think it is fair that the exam i be a part of that . Do you think it is fair that the exam boards i be a part of that . Do you think it is fair that the exam boards have l is fair that the exam boards have been told by the government to bring the grades back to 2019 standards even though you were affected by covid . ,. , even though you were affected by covid . ,. ,. ,. , covid . Not at all, these are the first set of covid . Not at all, these are the first set of real covid . Not at all, these are the first set of real exams covid . Not at all, these are the first set of real exams that covid . Not at all, these are the first set of real exams that my l first set of real exams that my cohort have sat. 0ur gcses were in the school and teacher assessed and if people got co vertebrae were given predicted grades. Yeah, we havent had preparation the way that other year groups have. And if people got covid, they were given predicted grades. In scotland and elsewhere they had advanced information. Elsewhere they had advanced i information. Their information. Thats right. Their. Rade information. Thats right. Their Grade Boundaries information. Thats right. Their Grade Boundaries maybe information. Thats right. Their Grade Boundaries maybe going| information. Thats right. Their Grade Boundaries maybe going back to 2019, they had the extra support on top, where we didnt. Top, where we didnt. Sure, thank ou. 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Ive worked so hard over the last two years and Hapefuiiy Hard Over the last two years and hopefully it shows and if not, well, i hopefully it shows and if not, well, i have hopefully it shows and if not, well, i have another plan and it is what it is i have another plan and it is what it is. � i have another plan and it is what itis. �. ,. , i have another plan and it is what itis. � ,. , it is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is joe. It is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is joe. You it is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is joe. You are it is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. Joe, you are in it is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. Joe, you are in a it is. Plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. Joe, you are in a different. It is. Joe, you are in a different scenario, you are part way through a degree as a mature student. Im a degree as a mature student. Im a second year degree as a mature student. Im a second year law degree as a mature student. Im a second year law student degree as a mature student. Im a second year Law Student At Degree as a mature student. Im a second year law student at the second year law student at the University Second year law student at the University Of Second Year Law Student at the university of back second year law student at the university of back and second year law student at the university of back and I Second Year Law Student at the university of back and i felt. Second year law student at thel university of back and i felt the Impact University of back and i felt the impact of university of back and i felt the impact of the university of back and i felt the impact of the Marking University of back and i felt the impact of the Marking Boycott. 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I think its really been a taffy university of quebec. I think its really been a taffy Year University of quebec. I think its really been a taffy year for university of quebec. I think its really been a taffy year for a university of quebec. I think its really been a taffy year for a lot| really been a taffy year for a lot of peppie really been a taffy year for a lot of people of people. Forgive me for interrupting. Of people. Forgive me for interrupting. Of people. Forgive me for interrupting. It of people. Forgive me for interrupting. It has of people. Forgive me for l interrupting. It has been of people. Forgive me for interrupting. It has been a difficult year. Interrupting. It has been a difficult year. How interrupting. It has been a difficult year. How has interrupting. It has been a difficult year. How has the i interrupting. It has been a difficult year. How has the boycott affected you . Difficult year. How has the boycott affected you . You difficult year. How has the boycott affected you . You must difficult year. How has the boycott affected you . You must wait difficult year. How has the boycott affected you . You must wait for i difficult year. How has the boycott i affected you . You must wait for your grades to arrive for your modules and if you are a Parent Learner like myself and youth have to think about Childcare Arrangements you have to think about Childcare Arrangements. To think about Childcare Arrangements. To think about childcare arranrements. , arrangements. There are days when the are arrangements. There are days when they are delivered arrangements. There are days when they are delivered and arrangements. 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Line for, so what your expected rate will be line for, so what your expected rate will be and line for, so what your expected rate will be and we line for, so what your expected rate will be and we dont line for, so what your expected rate will be and we dont have will be and we dont have that information will be and we dont have that information so will be and we dont have that information so its will be and we dont have that information so its difficult will be and we dont have that information so its difficult tol information so its difficult to navigate information so its difficult to navirate. , information so its difficult to navirate. ~ information so its difficult to navirate. ,. ,. , navigate. Charlie, a quick word from ou. How navigate. Charlie, a quick word from you how are navigate. Charlie, a quick word from you how are you navigate. Charlie, a quick word from you. How are you feeling . Navigate. Charlie, a quick word from you. How are you feeling . You navigate. Charlie, a quick word from you. How are you feeling . You justl you. How are you feeling . You just graduated, congratulations. Did you get a degree . fist graduated, congratulations. Did you get a degree . Get a degree . At the moment it is bein left get a degree . At the moment it is being left as get a degree . At the moment it is being left as a get a degree . At the moment it is being left as a pending get a degree . At the moment it is being left as a pending degree, i being left as a pending degree, waiting on further results. Hagar being left as a pending degree, waiting on further results. How do ou feel waiting on further results. How do you feel about waiting on further results. How do you feel about that . Waiting on further results. How do you feel about that . Pretty you feel about that . Pretty disappointed, you feel about that . Pretty disappointed, spent you feel about that . Pretty disappointed, spent hours| you feel about that . Pretty i disappointed, spent hours and you feel about that . Pretty disappointed, spent hours and hours working and my work hasnt been looked at, it doesnt take into account the Tens Of Thousands are spent. Not a great situation to be in and im not the only one, there are thousands of students like me who are in a bad situation. Ltruleiiii who are in a bad situation. Well hear more who are in a bad situation. Well hear more from who are in a bad situation. Well hear more from you. Who are in a bad situation. Well hear more from you. Thank i who are in a bad situation. Well hear more from you. Thank you | who are in a bad situation. Well hear more from you. Thank you for being here. Ok, lets talk about the state of University Finances, because that impacts current students, those who are due to start uni this autumn, staff and the future of the sector, and that will feed into a conversation about the Industrial Action already mentioned, by academics and University Staff over pay and conditions which has led to, its estimated, around 13,000 students not graduating with a degree not yet. To put that into some sort of context, though 570,00 students are set to graduate this summer. It is true to say that some universities really are in financial trouble. The number running a deficit has gone up dramatically, from 14 in 2015 16 to 27 in 2020 21. Heres ben with the facts. Lets dig into the price of Higher Education. Whats actually going on with the finances of the University Sector in the uk . Why is it all apparently in such a mess . And what can be done about it . Universities were protected from the austerity that hit most of the rest of the government funded sector in 2010, as the Tory Lib Dem Coalition allowed the sector to introduce a historic increase in tuition fees. Yet that financial protection has since worn off. And the situation has worsened markedly since the pandemic. The proportion of uk Higher Education providers with an in year deficit has increased from 14 in 2015 16 to 27 in 2021 22. The Tuition Fees System has been reformed recently. The income threshold when a graduate must start paying off a loan is now lower than previously, and debts will only be written off after a0 years, not 30. This effectively reduces the Public Subsidy and puts more of the financial burden on students themselves. Yet importantly, universities are not getting any financial benefit from the reform. Though its lower in Northern Ireland and slightly lower in wales, the cap on tuition fees in england and scotland has been frozen at £9,250 since 2017 18, which means a 30 decline in the actual value of fees to institutions after allowing for inflation. And this is one of the reasons University Bosses say they cannot meet the demands of lecturers for higher pay. The lecturers, though, dispute this. Well come back to that debate. In the meantime, theres another crucial element to the picture on University Finances, which is their growing reliance on foreign students. Heres what england and Northern Ireland universities collectively lose on domestic students almost £1 billion. Heres what they make on foreign students £2. 7 billion. And heres what the lose on research £41; billion. What this means is that the income from foreign students is effectively cross subsidising Everything Else the University Sector does. The threat of a dwindling flow of foreign students, like in this Derby University promo video, is heightening a sense of Financial Vulnerability in the sector. Some institutions could go bust, but experts say a greater risk is a deterioration in teaching and value for money for students. The universities will try to survive on whatever money theyve got, and so if they get given less money for teaching and learning, the experience for students will be less good. In the 1980s and 1990s, the number of students doubled, but the amount of money spent on our education didnt go up at all. Lectures got bigger and bigger and bigger. The Staff Student Ratio got worse and worse and worse and the University Estates got tattier and tattier and tattier, and eventually, tony blair took the Bold Decision to bring in tuition fees to try and reverse all of that. So what are the possible solutions . Well, more money is the usual argument. But from where . Theres no appetite for more Public Subsidy from the uk government and the same goes for the devolved administrations. Should students pay more through higherfees . Students are unsurprisingly opposed. So, infact, are university lecturers. What about welcoming more lucrative foreign students . Theres not much government appetite for that either. In fact, the opposite, as concerns about record Migration Rates increase. At this point, its worth recognising that not all universities are financially equal. Some, such as the elite russell group, are in much Better Financial Health than others, and inflated teacher assessed a level grades in the pandemic meant more students were able to go to these higher ranked universities, Penalising Lower ranked institutions who lost fee income. This gives an indication of the financial inequality in the system. These are all the 250 english institutions, ranked by essentially how much cash they hold. You can see there are some that have substantial cash reserves relative to their outgoings. But some shown here on the left are pretty deep in the red. So could redistribution from wealthier institutions to struggling ones be a solution . Thats difficult when the system is decentralised and not publicly owned. Or should there be a contraction and consolidation in the sector . Thats institutionally tricky and politically difficult. So, tough Exam Questions when it comes to University Finances, and sadly, no easy answers. Thank you for your messages. This is from barbara on the wirral, she says her daughter applied for and was accepted for a place at Leeds University but Must Withdraw because her Student Maintenance loan wont be enough even with parental help. Michelle wilson says her son has graduated from durham, going through the ceremony and doesnt know if he has a degree yet. He hasnt had face to face lectures for the entire time. He cant choose to do his masters because he doesnt know his grade and doesnt apply forjobs. Lily says she is going into her Finalfull Lily says she is going into her final full year as lily says she is going into her finalfull year as a lily says she is going into her final full year as a Student Midwife and in the first year there were many online lectures. She spent a lot of time thinking how can she do practical things online and how can she deliver a baby online . Thank you for those and keep your messages coming in. Lets speak to the Vice Chancellor of the university of hertfordshire, prof quintin mckellar, jo grady, General Secretary of the university and college union, representing academics and University Staff taking part in the Marking Boycott, from the labour party, mp apsana begum, who sits on the education select committee, and from the conservatives, tory peer lord willetts, who was Universities Minister during the Coalition Government from 2010 when tuition fees in england and wales went up from just over £3,000 to £9,000 per year. 0bviously, they are now £9,250 in england, £4,710 in Northern Ireland, £9,000 still in wales, and in scotland, if you live there, the government pays your tuition fees. We did ask for the Education Secretary or Universities Minister, but they werent available. Professor mckellar, York University isnt one of those running a deficit at the moment but how challenging is it for institutions like yours . Your university. It for institutions like yours . Your university it for institutions like yours . Your university. Thank you, your colleague your university. Thank you, your colleague summarised your university. Thank you, your colleague summarised the i your university. Thank you, your i colleague summarised the situation incredibly well and some of the Prospective Students have also indicated their concerns. Perhaps i can begin by saying, some reassuring remarks because my understanding is the vast majority of students, Prospective Students, will get their first choice of University Place which is terrific and there is a substantial and sophisticated Clearing System which will allow them to apply for and acquire places if they dont get their first choice, which i think is terrific. What are the universities having to do to alleviate the dire financial situation . ,. ,. ,. , situation . Your colleague pointed out the main situation . Your colleague pointed out the main thing situation . Your colleague pointed out the main thing which situation . Your colleague pointed out the main thing which has i situation . Your colleague pointed| out the main thing which has been helpful for many universities which is the attraction of many overseas students because they have unregulated fees and we are utilising a lot of the surplus we are getting to supplement the funding of undergraduates, especially those expensive courses, Laboratory Based courses, health courses. Laboratory based courses, health courses. � , ~ Laboratory Based courses, health courses. ~ , ~ courses. And universities like east an. Lia courses. And universities like east analia are courses. And universities like east anglia are actually courses. And universities like east anglia are actually closing courses. And universities like east anglia are actually closing down. Anglia are actually closing down some humanities courses and bringing on more Commuter Science and business degrees because they know it will attract overseas students. 0ther it will attract overseas students. Other universities like brighton are making dozens of redundancies because things are really tough at the moment. Jo grady, you know how tough it is for the universities yet you rejected this pay offer from the employers of between 5 and 8 . Why . I will answer, but i think its important i will answer, but i think its important to pick up on something you just important to pick up on something you just said, because speaking about you just said, because speaking about redundancies and that automatically because there are financial automatically because there are financial difficulties, we need to look at financial difficulties, we need to look at their universities are spending look at their universities are spending money, ratherthanjust spending money, rather than just assuming spending money, ratherthanjust assuming there is a financial black hole and assuming there is a financial black hole and therefore this must happen. What we hole and therefore this must happen. What we would argue is that frequently, and partly it is because of the frequently, and partly it is because of the fees frequently, and partly it is because of the fees regime we have, that the sector, of the fees regime we have, that the sector, ratherthan of the fees regime we have, that the sector, rather than supporting telecom sector, rather than supporting telecom is chasing students for competition. Ratherthan competition. Rather than competition. Ratherthan supporting each other. Regards to when supporting each other. Regards to when regarding our pay offer, we believe when regarding our pay offer, we believe the sector can afford more. We have believe the sector can afford more. We have a believe the sector can afford more. We have a Bargaining Sector in the uk there we have a Bargaining Sector in the uk there are institutions that are struggling, they can open their books struggling, they can open their books and show us why and we can potentially books and show us why and we can potentially arrange a different Payment Scheme for them to give their staff Payment Scheme for them to give their staff increases. The employer is not their staff increases. The employer is not doing that. What they did during is not doing that. What they did during our is not doing that. What they did during our negotiations back in the spring during our negotiations back in the spring was during our negotiations back in the spring was imposed something, and i think any spring was imposed something, and i think any of spring was imposed something, and i think any of the students on this panel think any of the students on this panel or think any of the students on this panel or anybody watching, negotiation does not work when you impose negotiation does not work when you impose on negotiation does not work when you impose on when you tell people how it is going impose on when you tell people how it is going to be, so we have got this long running dispute and we have this long running dispute and we have got this long running dispute and we have got it this long running dispute and we have got it because people such as yourself have got it because people such as yourself and the representative body that represents employers havent wanted that represents employers havent wanted to that represents employers havent wanted to solve it. We warned a year ao. Wanted to solve it. We warned a year ago is wanted to solve it. We warned a year alo,. , wanted to solve it. We warned a year auo. ,. ,. , wanted to solve it. We warned a year auo. ,. ,. , � ago. Is that true, you havent wanted to ago. Is that true, you havent wanted to solve ago. Is that true, you havent wanted to solve it . Ago. Is that true, you havent wanted to solve it . No, i i ago. Is that true, you havent. Wanted to solve it . No, i think ago. Is that true, you havent i wanted to solve it . No, i think that in particular. Wanted to solve it . No, i think that in particular, ucu wanted to solve it . No, i think that in particular, ucu working wanted to solve it . No, i think that in particular, Ucu Working On i wanted to solve it . No, i think that| in particular, Ucu Working On behalf of the sector have striven to resolve the issue, they have made theissue resolve the issue, they have made the issue 5 8 , which is now being embraced by our colleagues. They have made the offer of 5 8 . I believe that is a fair offer given the constraints on universities at the constraints on universities at the present time. Do the constraints on universities at the present time. The constraints on universities at the present time. Do you want to resond . The present time. Do you want to respond . Lt the present time. Do you want to respond . It was the present time. Do you want to respond . It was rejected the present time. Do you want to respond . It was rejected by i the present time. Do you want to respond . It was rejected by an i the present time. Do you want to i respond . It was rejected by an 8096 respond . It was reected by an 80 mar in respond . It was reected by an 8096 mar in and respond . It was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. Respond . It was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. I respond . It was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. Ithink respond . It was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. I think facts. Margin and imposed. I think facts matter~ margin and imposed. I think facts matter~ i margin and imposed. I think facts matter. I think the issue for everybody sat here is, the state of uk higher everybody sat here is, the state of uk Higher Education and education in general uk Higher Education and education in general is uk Higher Education and education in general is shocking, and if you wont general is shocking, and if you wont apologise, and i have no idea if you wont apologise, and i have no idea if you will wont apologise, and i have no idea if you will apologise, i will, for students if you will apologise, i will, for students for the state of education in the students for the state of education in the uk students for the state of education in the uk. 50 students for the state of education in the uk. ,. ,. ,. , in the uk. So that was to lord willis, previous in the uk. So that was to lord willis, previous universities i willis, previous Universities Minister. Why should he apologise for the state of University Funding right now . For for the state of University Funding riaht now . ,. , i. ,. Right now . For anyone watching him is not aware. Right now . For anyone watching him is not aware, if right now . For anyone watching him is not aware, if you right now . For anyone watching him is not aware, if you know right now . For anyone watching him is not aware, if you know that i right now . For anyone watching him is not aware, if you know that we i is not aware, if you know that we now have is not aware, if you know that we now have the fees that we have, you were a now have the fees that we have, you were a key now have the fees that we have, you were a key architect at the time, introducing were a key architect at the time, introducing a system that even on its own introducing a system that even on its own merits does not work. It is a system its own merits does not work. It is a system that now requires the exploitation of staff, the overworked staff, students as cash cows~ overworked staff, students as cash cows~ it overworked staff, students as cash cows. It doesnt work on any indicator. Cows. It doesnt work on any indicator, and we now have a sector that is indicator, and we now have a sector that is cannibalising itself and destroying its reputation. Lord willits, universities destroying its reputation. Lord willits, universities are destroying its reputation. Lord willits, universities are in i willits, universities are in financial trouble, quite a few. They get around 12 of their funding from central government. 0ur government spends significantly less per house student in germany, france, the us, canada, ireland. The government needs to put its hand in its pocket, doesnt it . ~. ,. ,. , doesnt it . Well, one solution would be to have higher doesnt it . Well, one solution would be to have higher public doesnt it . Well, one solution would be to have higher public spending, l be to have higher public spending, but if you look at how british politicians of all parties have regarded education over the past 30 or 40 years, their priority has always been primary education, secondary education, early years, and one of the reasons why we did the fees, not because we loved it, we wanted to do it, but because if you look at the evidence, Public Expenditure for Higher Education has never been a priority. So you needed some other means of financing Higher Education. And i think that the fees, which of course, students do not pay upfront, there is an obligation to pay at a rate of above £25,000 of earnings, 9 , if graduates who are in better paid jobs pay for it, that does bring money to Higher Education, and the answer is, ten years ago, when we brought in those fees, though it was controversial, there was more money behind each individual student that enabled them to have the well equipped labs and enable them to have maintenance support, and what we are really describing now is the problem that has come from no indexation or increase in fees in ten years, so the real resources shrinking and shrinking. It ten years, so the real resources shrinking and shrinking. Ten years, so the real resources shrinking and shrinking. It was a Revious Shrinking and shrinking. It was a previous Labour Shrinking and shrinking. It was a previous Labour Government i shrinking and shrinking. It was al previous Labour Government that introduced fees, and you raise the cap. Let me bring in apsana begum from labour. 0bviously, sir keir starmer has scrapped its previous pledge to get rid of tuition fees. Are you cross about that . The first thin i are you cross about that . The first thing i want are you cross about that . The first thing i want to are you cross about that . The first thing i want to respond are you cross about that . The first thing i want to respond to are you cross about that . The first thing i want to respond to is i are you cross about that . The first thing i want to respond to is what l thing i want to respond to is what lord willetts said. Thing i want to respond to is what lord willetts said. First, you cross about that . Lord willetts said. First, you cross about that . L lord willetts said. First, you cross about that . I was lord willetts said. First, you cross about that . I was elected lord willetts said. First, you cross about that . I was elected in i lord willetts said. First, you cross about that . I was elected in the i about that . I was elected in the constituency about that . I was elected in the constituency on about that . I was elected in the constituency on a about that . I was elected in the constituency on a manifesto i about that . I was elected in the | constituency on a manifesto that pledged constituency on a manifesto that pledged to scrap tuition fees. 30, pledged to scrap tuition fees. So, es, ou pledged to scrap tuition fees. So, yes. You are pledged to scrap tuition fees. So, yes. You are it pledged to scrap tuition fees. So, yes, you are. It was pledged to scrap tuition fees. So, yes, you are. It was an pledged to scrap tuition fees. So, yes, you are. It was an incredible | yes, you are. It was an incredible oular yes, you are. It was an incredible popular manifesto yes, you are. It was an incredible popular manifesto pledge, i yes, you are. It was an incredible popular manifesto pledge, and i yes, you are. It was an incredible i popular manifesto pledge, and they will heartily stand by it, because my constituents definitely wanted to see that my constituents definitely wanted to see that be delivered. I will heartily see that be delivered. I will heartily stand by it. But i wanted to come heartily stand by it. But i wanted to come back to what lord willetts said, to come back to what lord willetts said, because surely the idea of increasing said, because surely the idea of increasing tuition fees was to help a struggling University Finance sector~ a struggling University Finance sector. But then, why are University Finance sector. But then, why are University Finance is sector. But then, why are University Finance is still struggling many years finance is still struggling many years on . Finance is still struggling many years on . So something still isnt right years on . So something still isnt right i years on . So something still isnt right i am years on . So something still isnt right. I am of the view that, i think right. I am of the view that, i think International Students being attracted to the uk to study is a good attracted to the uk to study is a good thing. Clearly, they are recognising that the quality of education here is good and very important education here is good and very important and should be valued. But i important and should be valued. But ithink. Important and should be valued. But ithink. I important and should be valued. But ithink. I do important and should be valued. But i think, i do definitely have concerns i think, i do definitely have concerns about the way in which the funding concerns about the way in which the Funding Model currently operates. I think there Funding Model currently operates. I think there is a reliance on the International Student group out there International Student group out there to International Student group out there to finance the University Sector, there to finance the University Sector, but i think its also done in an sector, but i think its also done in an unfair sector, but i think its also done in an unfairway. Sector, but i think its also done in an unfair way. Its not really taking in an unfair way. Its not really taking into in an unfair way. Its not really taking into account the International Student experience iilht International Student experience right now, as in as has been mentioned right now, as in as has been mentioned earlier, and the hostile environment. With the Marking Boycott, environment. With the Marking Boycott, for example, where they can et boycott, for example, where they can get the boycott, for example, where they can get the grades needed to renew their visas~ get the grades needed to renew their visas. �. ,. , , get the grades needed to renew their visas. ~. ,. , ,. , get the grades needed to renew their visas. ~. ,. , visas. And that has happened to you, i think, because visas. And that has happened to you, i think, because of visas. And that has happened to you, i think, because of the visas. And that has happened to you, i think, because of the marking i i think, because of the Marking Boycott. Ray, you are an International Student. Welcome to newsnight. Briefly summarise how it has affected you . Has affected you . Yes, i am graduating has affected you . Yes, i am graduating from has affected you . Yes, i am graduating from my has affected you . Yes, i am graduating from my current | has affected you . Yes, i am graduating from my Current Programme at Cardiff University hopefully some day, but currently, nothing has been marked, and i dont know when i am going to graduate, which means that the programme i would like to enrol in in london that i wanted to enrol in in london that i wanted to enrol in basically said, unless we cant have you graduate, you cant come, and no graduation means no visa. And i am very lucky. I am one of the lucky ones. I am actually able to go to a Different University in a different region of the uk. But i had to say no to a £6,500 scholarship, because it was too late for me to accept it, so i lost out on that, they have to fly home to the us to apply for my visa, which is more money, and a real stressful experience for me. Do is more money, and a real stressful experience for me. Experience for me. Do you take Responsibility Experience for me. Do you take responsibility for experience for me. Do you take responsibility for that, experience for me. Do you take responsibility for that, for i experience for me. Do you take responsibility for that, for your| responsibility for that, for your members� responsibility for that, for your members Marking Boycott which means that not only has she lost out on the scholarship, she has to fly back home to reapply for the visa again . Why would staff in the uk Higher Education sector take responsibility for a visa Education Sector take responsibility for a visa and an Immigration Regime that fora visa and an Immigration Regime that is for a visa and an Immigration Regime that is rinsing money out of people who want that is rinsing money out of people who want to come and study here . The fact you who want to come and study here . The fact you are who want to come and study here . The fact you are having to do that. The sorts fact you are having to do that. The sorts of fact you are having to do that. The sorts of fees that apply to International Students are a racket and the International Students are a racket and the scandal all the time. But if her work had and the scandal all the time. But if her work had been and the scandal all the time. But if her work had been marked, and the scandal all the time. Em f her work had been marked, she would be able to carry on as normal and get the scholarship. My be able to carry on as normal and get the scholarship. Be able to carry on as normal and get the scholarship. My question is, do ou get the scholarship. My question is, do you blame get the scholarship. My question is, do you blame staff . Get the scholarship. My question is, do you blame staff . In get the scholarship. My question is, do you blame staff . In my get the scholarship. My question is, do you blame staff . In my opinion, | do you blame staff . In my opinion, International Tuition for my programme is currently £24,450, and can you imagine any other place in which a customer would pay that much money and be treated this badly . For me, in my opinion, i mean, it is unacceptable that universities have allowed this to happen. Thats not ok, and i think about things like 0k, and i think about things like the fact that. I have read that your salary in 2022 was around £354,000, and that is a lot of money coming from tuition fees from students like me, International Students, but also domestic students. How is it that you are not helping us and taking care of us when we are supporting the university that you run . Flan when we are supporting the university that you run . Can i respond . University that you run . Can i respond . Of university that you run . Can i respond . Of course, university that you run . Can i respond . Of course, please l university that you run . Can i l respond . Of course, please do. University that you run . Can i respond . Of course, please do. My university is respond . Of course, please do. My university is not respond . Of course, please do. My university is not in respond . Of course, please do. My university is not in that respond . Of course, please do. My university is not in that position, i university is not in that position, so we university is not in that position, so we are university is not in that position, so we are very fortunate in that regard so we are very fortunate in that reaard. �. I. So we are very fortunate in that reaard. �. , regard. But are you. I suppose the broader point regard. But are you. I suppose the broader point is, regard. But are you. I suppose the broader point is, if regard. But are you. I suppose the broader point is, if i regard. But are you. I suppose the broader point is, if i may, regard. But are you. I suppose the broader point is, if i may, there broader point is, if i may, there has been criticism of Vice Chancellors salaries, some on 400,000, 500,000, 700,000, and the accusation from academics and University Staff is, those Vice Chancellors are out of touch. They are on these huge salaries, yet they are on these huge salaries, yet they are having another real terms pay cut offered to them after 25 real terms pay cut, adjusted for inflation, since 2009. Well, different people inflation, since 2009. Well, different people have inflation, since 2009. Well, i different people have different views about Vice Chancellors salaries, but of course, they are running big businesses. The salaries you are talking about are for Vice Chancellors who have got billion pounds businesses which they have to look after, but if i can come back to the specific point, which relates to the specific point, which relates to visas, i think it is important that universities do Support Students, particularly International Students, particularly International Students, where that situation arises, and it does arise, because if a student for one reason or another has to do a reset or Something Like that, it extends them over the period of what is called a cas, a certificate that allows them to stay in the uk, and they have to get recassed, and that is a visa issue, and university should Support Students around that. I will issue, and university should Support Students around that. Students around that. I will come back to you. Students around that. I will come back to you, dominic, students around that. I will come back to you, dominic, in students around that. I will come back to you, dominic, in terms. Students around that. I will come | back to you, dominic, in terms of the business, but i want to bring in another short film. It is a short film, we have loads of time for you to talk. Dont worry. We have talked about the finance side of the sector. What about the finances of individual undergraduates . Well, the number of students with Part Time Jobs is at a record high, 55 , according to the Higher Education policy institute. Ican i can see some people here nodding. They obviously have a Part Time Job as well. And even with that work, the average student now leaves uni owing around £45,000, more than students in the us, canada and australia. Its Worth Remembering too that the Department For Education calculates that graduates will earn 20 more over their lifetime thats around £100,000. Heres yasminara on the Student Experience. The life of a student can be seen as enviable, with time to spend studying a subject that you hopefully love, making friends, often in a new location. But the last three years have seen a huge upheaval to the students experience, with interruptions to study caused by the pandemic, lecturer strikes and more money worries for many, caused by the rising Cost Of Living. So, my name is holly and ive just finished my first year graphic design. Whats your experience been like, being a student here at Sheffield Hallam . I came in through clearing and i actually didnt have a chance to visit the uni before i came here, so it was a bit Nerve Racking. But it ended up being a really good choice for me. But it comes with a high price tag, doesnt it . And how do you think thats going to impact you once you leave university . Obviously concerns with debt. Its a big commitment to take on. And id recommend that everyone, any future students, would look into it, especially with the repayment terms, like, changing in each year. The percentage of is year olds going to university is expected to fall slightly this year. A lot of people have figured out that you dont have to Start University at 18. Its not a written rule. So, i know a lot of people that are coming to Start University that are just taking gap years. Apprenticeships are becoming a big thing. Theres a lot more different routes into apprenticeships. Theres a lot more differentjobs you can get from apprenticeships. So typically a university degree, even though a few years ago was, like, the thing you need for a lot ofjobs, nowadays theres alternatives. This autumn, there will be yet more strikes affecting universities. I spoke to another student whos returning to Sheffield Hallam in the autumn after a year out. He supports the lecturers, but says their action has affected him. Because i support the strike, i refuse to cross the picket line anyway. So that means missing out on lectures, that means missing out on seminars. I think the real problem is, like, having all of these fees and having all of this debt means that students arent really getting the value for money. And a lot of them feel like, yeah, they would be better off dropping out and not going to university. This has been a really difficult time for young people, a really difficult time for universities. Professor sir chris husbands is standing down as Sheffield Hallams Vice Chancellor after seven years in post. The percentage of is year olds going to university is expected to fall. What are the reasons behind this . Weve got pretty good evidence here that the driver for that is the Cost Of Living crisis, and its the inadequacy of the Maintenance Offer to students that is driving, and particularly students from poorer families, not to go onto Higher Education. As well as the Cost Of Living, theres also the impact of Industrial Action by University Staff. I absolutely understand the concern that salaries have decreased in real terms over the last decade. Weve been clear that the offer that we have made is at the limit of affordability. We dont want to put ourselves in a position where we need to cut posts as a result of the pay settlement. Is it still worth being a student these days . So, the evidence is pretty clear about that. Being a student pays dividends in terms of lifetime earnings. It pays dividends in terms of wider experiences around the world. And whats the message from current students to those awaiting a level results this thursday . There are so many other pathways that i could have chose, but i feel Like University works for me, because ijust get this time to figure out exactly what i want to go into while ive got something to work towards. The Student Experience has changed over the last decade and it seems the next generation are also likely to face further challenges. Chloe field from the National Union of studentsjoins me. And dominic macgregor, the founder of fearless adventures. You went to university in edinburgh and left in your second year. Im going to ask your second year. Im going to ask you about that off the back of this message from matt in hertfordshire, students who pay tuition fees are consumers and have rights. A class of 2023 havent been given the services they paid for and clearly deserve a refund which should take the form of debt forgiveness, he says. Do you agree . Students nodding. Those in favour . 0k. What do you want to say about the fact that they are consumers who are paying for their education . Is year old went to the bank and said give me £45,000 and ill pay it back, they would say no, so we are putting a huge burden on young people who are having to make a huge decision. The money they pay goes to the universities and they expect a product which in future is going to help them and that comes across as a degree, experience and networking and if you dont get that from university, then of course you are right for a refund because the product hasnt been delivered and fulfilled by the university. Is product hasnt been delivered and fulfilled by the university. Fulfilled by the university. Is that fair, as a vice fulfilled by the university. Is that fair, as a Vice Chancellor . Fulfilled by the university. Is that fair, as a Vice Chancellor . Is fulfilled by the university. Is that fair, as a Vice Chancellor . Is it i fulfilled by the university. Is that fair, as a Vice Chancellor . Is it a | fair, as a Vice Chancellor . Is it a fair, as a Vice Chancellor . Is it a fair point . I fair, as a Vice Chancellor . Is it a fair point . Fair point . I think i would refer back to chris fair point . I think i would refer back to chris husband fair point . I think i would refer back to chris husband who i fair point . I think i would refer i back to chris husband who indicated clearly back to chris husband who indicated clearly there is an advantage for the majority of students who Go To University the majority of students who Go To University and the advantage is both in terms university and the advantage is both in terms of university and the advantage is both in terms of the experience they gain but also in terms of the experience they gain but also lifetime earnings. But also lifetime earnings. Chloe, as a representative but also lifetime earnings. Chloe, as a representative of but also lifetime earnings. Chloe, as a representative of students, i but also lifetime earnings. Chloe, i as a representative of students, the nus, the body set up to look out for their interests, how would you assess their experience at the moment . It assess their experience at the moment . Assess their experience at the moment . Assess their experience at the moment . ,. , ,. , moment . It is absolutely dire. The current system, moment . It is absolutely dire. The current system, we moment . It is absolutely dire. The current system, we talked moment . It is absolutely dire. The current system, we talked about. Moment . It is absolutely dire. The current system, we talked about it| current system, we talked about it and showing current system, we talked about it and showing the current system, we talked about it and showing the evidence, current system, we talked about it and showing the evidence, it current system, we talked about it and showing the evidence, it is and showing the evidence, it is broken and showing the evidence, it is broken and and showing the evidence, it is broken and we and showing the evidence, it is broken and we cant and showing the evidence, it is broken and we cant keep and showing the evidence, it is. 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What would you change . Firstly just failing everyone. What would you change . Firstly we just failing everyone. What would you change . Firstly we need i you change . Firstly we need politicians you change . Firstly we need politicians who you change . Firstly we need politicians who are you change . Firstly we need politicians who are actually l politicians who are actually listening politicians who are actually listening to politicians who are actually listening to students. I politicians who are actually listening to students. What would ou listening to students. What would you change listening to students. What would you change in listening to students. What would you change in terms listening to students. What would you change in terms of listening to students. What would you change in terms of the i listening to students. What would l you change in terms of the Funding Money . You change in terms of the funding mone . ~ money . Reduce the market element. Meanin money . Reduce the market element. Meaning Taxoayers Money . Reduce the market element. Meaning taxpayers will money . Reduce the market element. Meaning taxpayers will pay . Meaning taxpayers will pay . Education accessible for all. Students education accessible for all. Students are education accessible for all. Students are being education accessible for all. Students are being treatedl education accessible for all. I students are being treated like consumers. 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But why is it fair for someone i education as if you have a choice. | but why is it fair for someone who doesnt Go To University and might be on a low income for their taxes to pay for you to Go To University to pay for you to Go To University to get a degree that over your lifetime will earn you £100,000 more than the person on a lower income without one . It than the person on a lower income without one . Than the person on a lower income without one . It benefits everyone. I benefits everyone. Without one . It benefits everyone. I benefits everyone. That without one . It benefits everyone. I benefits everyone. That individual i benefits everyone. That individual mi. Ht benefits everyone. That individual miaht be benefits everyone. That individual might be thinking, benefits everyone. That individual might be thinking, how benefits everyone. That individual might be thinking, how did i benefits everyone. That individual might be thinking, how did you i might be thinking, how did you getting a degree benefit me . The individual would need to to go to hospital. Individual would need to to go to hospital. They individual would need to to go to hospital, they may individual would need to to go to hospital, they may have individual would need to to go to hospital, they may have kids i individual would need to to go to| hospital, they may have kids who individual would need to to go to i hospital, they may have kids who are teachers. Hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is a hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is a climate hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is a climate crisis, i teachers, there is a climate crisis, research teachers, there is a climate crisis, research into teachers, there is a climate crisis, research into green teachers, there is a climate crisis, Research Into Green Energy teachers, there is a climate crisis, Research Into Green Energy is i Research Into Green Energy is needed Research Into Green Energy is needed they Research Into Green Energy is needed. They will Research Into Green Energy is needed. They will benefit. I Research Into Green Energy is i needed. They will benefit. Higher education needed. They will benefit. Higher education benefits needed. They will benefit. Higher education benefits all needed. They will benefit. Higher education benefits all of needed. They will benefit. Higher education benefits all of society. I education benefits all of society. If someone education benefits all of society. If someone doesnt education benefits all of society. If someone doesnt want education benefits all of society. If someone doesnt want to i education benefits all of society. If someone doesnt want to go. Education benefits all of society. | if someone doesnt want to Go To University. If someone doesnt want to Go To University, thats if someone doesnt want to Go To University, thats fine, if someone doesnt want to Go To University, thats fine, we if someone doesnt want to Go To University, thats fine, we should other university, thats fine, we should other offer university, thats fine, we should other offer university, thats fine, we should other offer offer university, thats fine, we should other offer offer other university, thats fine, we shouldl other offer offer other options. It is a other offer offer other options. It is a choice other offer offer other options. It is a choice and other offer offer other options. It is a choice and the other offer offer other options. It is a choice and the burden other offer offer other options. I it is a choice and the burden should be on it is a choice and the burden should be on. ~ ,. , it is a choice and the burden should be on. ~. ,. It is a choice and the burden should beon. ,. , be on. Why should you have. Why should you be on. Why should you have. Why should you have be on. Why should you have. Why should you have to be on. Why should you have. Why should you have to have be on. Why should you have. Why should you have to have to be on. Why should you have. Why should you have to have to have i be on. Why should you have. Why should you have to have to have the l should you have to have to have the money should you have to have to have the money to should you have to have to have the money to access should you have to have to have the money to access higher should you have to have to have the money to access Higher Education . I money to access Higher Education . You dont money to access Higher Education . You dont have money to access Higher Education . You dont have to money to access Higher Education . You dont have to have money to access Higher Education . You dont have to have the money to access Higher Education . You dont have to have the money. J you dont have to have the money. Looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads of looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads of debt looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads of debt you i looking at rent, how hi it is now, l you still get loads of debt you have to pay you still get loads of debt you have to pay off you still get loads of debt you have to pay off. The you still get loads of debt you have to pay off. The problem you still get loads of debt you have to pay off. The problem isnt you still get loads of debt you havei to pay off. The problem isnt always paying to pay off. The problem isnt always paying the to pay off. The problem isnt always paying the tuition to pay off. The problem isnt always paying the tuition fees to pay off. The problem isnt always paying the tuition fees and to pay off. The problem isnt always paying the tuition fees and debt, i to pay off. The problem isnt always paying the tuition fees and debt, it| paying the tuition fees and debt, it is the paying the tuition fees and debt, it is the whole paying the tuition fees and debt, it is the whole system. Paying the tuition fees and debt, it is the whole system. Putting paying the tuition fees and debt, it| is the whole system. Putting pound signs is the whole system. Putting pound signs over is the whole system. Putting pound signs over students, is the whole system. Putting pound signs over students, it is the whole system. Putting pound signs over students, it isnt signs over students, it isnt working signs over students, it isnt working and signs over students, it isnt working and needs signs over students, it isnt working and needs radical. Signs over students, it isnt working and needs radical change. I would working and needs radical change. Would like to correct this working and needs radical change. would like to correct this dangerous idea that somehow debt is like a bank overdraft, money that students have to pay. It isnt like. So called that is unlike Credit Card Cat or a mortgage, it says if you are earning over £25,000 a year you will pay an additional rate. If you are earning £35,000 a year you are going to pay, about 75, £80 a month back. This is not like the american debt. ,. ,. , debt. Sure, i want to hear from charlie. Debt. Sure, i want to hear from charlie lt debt. Sure, i want to hear from charlie. It is debt. Sure, i want to hear from charlie. It is easy debt. Sure, i want to hear from charlie. It is easy for debt. Sure, i want to hear from charlie. It is easy for you i debt. Sure, i want to hear from charlie. It is easy for you to i charlie. It is easy for you to Lecture Somebody charlie. It is easy for you to Lecture Somebody when i charlie. It is easy for you to | Lecture Somebody when you charlie. It is easy for you to i Lecture Somebody when you didnt have to Lecture Somebody when you didnt have to go Lecture Somebody when you didnt have to go through the exact system shes talking to you about. I think what shes talking to you about. I think what you shes talking to you about. I think what you should do as someone who helped what you should do as someone who helped to what you should do as someone who helped to introduce the system that chloe helped to introduce the system that chloe says that its putting off people chloe says that its putting off people from the Working Class about studying people from the Working Class about studying is to listen to her and not to lecture studying is to listen to her and not to lecture her. Let studying is to listen to her and not to lecture her. To lecture her. Let me come back because of to lecture her. Let me come back because of course to lecture her. Let me come back because of course i to lecture her. Let me come back because of course i understand i to lecture her. Let me come back. Because of course i understand the point that is being made. Let me reply to that. As a result of what we did we got mid off the old controls on the number of students going to university. Re got rid of the old controls. There has been a big increase in the number of low income students going, it is great social progress. In the year i brought in those changes i wanted to. The disaster would have been if people from disadvantaged backgrounds thought they had to pay for the education and couldnt afford to go, that would have been a tragedy but it didnt happen. I completely agree, the Pressure Point isnt the fees and the so called debt, the Pressure Point is the cash to live on at university. Aha, debt, the Pressure Point is the cash to live on at university. To live on at university. A quick word from to live on at university. A quick word from you, to live on at university. A quick word from you, roya, to live on at university. A quick word from you, roya, how i to live on at university. A quick. Word from you, roya, how would to live on at university. A quick word from you, roya, how would you describe the Student Experience . fin describe the Student Experience . On a personal level in terms of personal a personal level in terms of Personal Development a personal level in terms of Personal Development Ed. A personal level in terms of l Personal Development Ed has a personal level in terms of Personal Development Ed has been really Personal Development Ed has been really enriching Personal Development Ed has been really enriching and Personal Development Ed has been really enriching and i Personal Development Ed has been really enriching and i think Personal Development Ed has been really enriching and i think thats i really enriching and i think thats because really enriching and i think thats because i really enriching and i think thats because i had really enriching and i think thats because i had time really enriching and i think thats because i had time and really enriching and i think thats because i had time and i really enriching and i think thats because i had time and i worked| because i had time and i worked parttime because i had time and i worked part time through because i had time and i worked part time through unique because i had time and i worked part time through unique but. Because i had time and i worked part time through unique but i. Part time through unique but i didnt part time through unique but i didnt have part time through unique but i didnt have to part time through unique but i didnt have to work part time through unique but i didnt have to work so part time through unique but i didnt have to work so much i part time through unique but i. Didnt have to work so much that i couldnt didnt have to work so much that i couldnt get didnt have to work so much that i couldnt get involved didnt have to work so much that i couldnt get involved in didnt have to work so much that i couldnt get involved in society. Didnt have to work so much that i l couldnt get involved in society and that aspect couldnt get involved in society and that aspect has couldnt get involved in society and that aspect has been couldnt get involved in society and that aspect has been enriching. I couldnt get involved in society and| that aspect has been enriching. But ithink that aspect has been enriching. But i think on that aspect has been enriching. But i think on an that aspect has been enriching. But i think on an academic that aspect has been enriching. But i think on an academic level that aspect has been enriching. But i think on an academic level i that aspect has been enriching. But i think on an academic level i dontl i think on an academic level i dont think i think on an academic level i dont think i i think on an academic level i dont think ifeel i think on an academic level i dont think. I feel disillusioned i think on an academic level i dont think. I feel disillusioned with. Think. I feel disillusioned with higher think. I feel disillusioned with Higher Education. Think. I feel disillusioned with Higher Education. Im think. I feel disillusioned with Higher Education. Im kind i think. I feel disillusioned with Higher Education. Im kind of. Think. I feel disillusioned with. Higher education. Im kind of tired as well~ Higher Education. Im kind of tired as well~ i Higher Education. Im kind of tired as well~ istudy Higher Education. Im kind of tired as well. I study history Higher Education. Im kind of tired as well. I study history and Higher Education. Im kind of tiredl as well. I study history and spanish and i as well. I study history and spanish and i am as well. I study history and spanish and i am tired as well. I study history and spanish and i am tired of as well. I study history and spanish and i am tired of the as well. I study history and spanish and i am tired of the narrative i as well. I study history and spanish and i am tired of the narrative that| and i am tired of the narrative that degrees and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in the and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in the humanities and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in the humanities or degrees in the humanities or languages degrees in the humanities or languages arent degrees in the humanities or languages arent really degrees in the humanities or| languages arent really worth anything languages arent really worth an hina. L, � , languages arent really worth an him. I, � , anything. Thats interesting. Charlie, your anything. Thats interesting. Charlie, your experience . I anything. Thats interesting. | charlie, your experience . Im anything. Thats interesting. Charlie, your experience . Im going down the road charlie, your experience . Im going down the road with charlie, your experience . Im going down the road with lots charlie, your experience . Im going down the road with lots of charlie, your experience . Im going down the road with lots of people i down the road with lots of people who dont want to listen to students again and its important to askjo, you say you are sorry but what are you say you are sorry but what are you sorry for . People who have had Mental Health issues because of your union . Because of my teaching not being completed . Because people like my sister who is going to university, she will go there and there will be no people to mark her work. What are you sorry for and if you were really sorry would you carry on striking . I you were really sorry would you carry on striking . You were really sorry would you carry on striking . I said im sorry and it is worth carry on striking . I said im sorry and it is worth repeating, carry on striking . I said im sorry and it is worth repeating, for carry on striking . I said im sorry and it is worth repeating, for the i and it is worth repeating, for the state and it is worth repeating, for the state of and it is worth repeating, for the state of education because it is what state of education because it is what has state of education because it is what has let as to this path. You seem what has let as to this path. You seem to what has let as to this path. You seem to be what has let as to this path. You seem to be talking about staff, right, seem to be talking about staff, right, saying they have no integrity. Right, saying they have no integrity right, saying they have no inteuri. , ,. Integrity. Completely unfair. I have so much respect integrity. Completely unfair. I have so much respect for integrity. Completely unfair. I have so much respect for the integrity. Completely unfair. I have so much respect for the lecturers l so much respect for the lecturers and you deserve a fairer deal but are you sorry . If you are sorry we wouldnt be sitting here now. Let me answer your wouldnt be sitting here now. Let me answer your question. Wouldnt be sitting here now. Let me answer your question. I wouldnt be sitting here now. Let me answer your question. I hear wouldnt be sitting here now. Let me answer your question. I hear you, i answer your question. I hear you, right answer your question. I hear you, right we answer your question. I hear you, right we are answeryour question. I hearyou, right. We are taking action because we work right. We are taking action because we work in right. We are taking action because we work in a right. We are taking action because we work in a system that systematically exploits us and if you respect your staff, which i believe you respect your staff, which i believe you when you say you do, then believe you when you say you do, then you believe you when you say you do, then you should respect and not having then you should respect and not having to then you should respect and not having to work every weekend. You surety having to work every weekend. You surely respect them not having to have surely respect them not having to have things imposed on them. Everyone have things imposed on them. Everyone talks about an offer but it has been everyone talks about an offer but it has been imposed. You surely respect them has been imposed. You surely respect them when has been imposed. You surely respect them when they said to employers over year them when they said to employers over year ago, them when they said to employers overyearago, if them when they said to employers over year ago, if you dont fix this, over year ago, if you dont fix this, we over year ago, if you dont fix this, we will end up in this situation this, we will end up in this situation. And we are here because they have situation. And we are here because they have not done those things. When they have not done those things. When you they have not done those things. When you make an apology it should be directing it to this person not the people you say you respect who have genuinely tried every single other have genuinely tried every single other way have genuinely tried every single other way to resolve it. The people that charlie other way to resolve it. The people that charlie is other way to resolve it. The people that charlie is saying other way to resolve it. The people that charlie is saying he other way to resolve it. The people that charlie is saying he respects i that charlie is saying he respects include professors who have a median salary of £80,000 a year, principal lecturers, 60,000, senior lecturers, 50,000. Thats way above the average wage of this country. Flan 50,000. Thats way above the average wage of this country. Cant 50,000. Thats way above the average wage of this country. Wage of this country. Can i answer that . I wage of this country. Can i answer that . I know wage of this country. Can i answer that . L know that wage of this country. Can i answer that . I know that he wage of this country. Can i answer that . I know that he is wage of this country. Can i answer that . I know that he is at wage of this country. Can i answer that . I know that he is at bristol. That . I know that he is at bristol and he that . I know that he is at bristol and he witt that . I know that he is at bristol and he will have been taught by a minimum and he will have been taught by a minimum of one third of Teaching Staff on minimum of one third of Teaching Staff on insecure contracts who are not on staff on insecure contracts who are not on what staff on insecure contracts who are not on what you are talking about. They not on what you are talking about. They earn not on what you are talking about. They earn way less, they are using food hanks they earn way less, they are using food banks. It they earn way less, they are using food banks food banks. It is true to say you are asking food banks. It is true to say you are asking for food banks. It is true to say you are asking for the food banks. It is true to say you are asking for the 596 food banks. It is true to say you are asking for the 596 and food banks. It is true to say you are asking for the 596 and 896 i food banks. It is true to say you | are asking for the 596 and 896 for are asking for the 5 and 8 for those higher up as well . Taste are asking for the 596 and 896 for those higher up as well . Those higher up as well . We are askin for those higher up as well . We are asking for everyone those higher up as well . We are asking for everyone because asking for everyone because everyones pay has been eroded by the dispute is about people burning out so much and being trapped in a Merry Go Round of rubbish contracts. 44 of School Leaders apply to university meaning that most dont. School leavers. There are alternatives getting a job, starting an apprenticeship although theres been a 33 drop in new apprenticeship starts at Intermeidate Level since 2015 16. And there are Degree Apprenticehsips where you learn and earn over a six year period. Firms like rolls royce, google and network rail all offer them. Sima reports from the cell and gene therapy catapult lab in stevenage on the apprenticeship alternatives. For some, its the best of both worlds. Earning money and getting a qualification, and no debt at the end of it. Degree apprenticeships have grown in popularity over the years. In this lab in hertfordshire, ted is completing a technician scientist apprenticeship. At the end of a four year course, hell have a degree in bioscience. Here, hes learning how to handle liquids to make sure they dont become contaminated. This course lets me learn every day of the week in the labs, hands on, which is the best way of learning for me and employers really value experience. By the end of this, ill have five years of experience and thats great for applying for new positions. And youll get a Degree Qualification as well . Thats right. At the end, ill have a degree, which should really help me for applying to technician roles. Ill have no debt at the end and im making a salary throughout the course of the apprenticeship as well, which really helps for establishing my future. We understand that everybody who has completed this course over the last five years has gone on to get a job in the Life Sciences sector. We are told that the course is helping to fill a significant skills gap. But new research from the Charity Sutton trust shows that there arent enough Degree Apprenticeships on offer. It says three in five people dont pursue them due to a lack of availability. One of the key problems is that there arent enough Degree Apprenticeship opportunities for young people. Theyve been very much promoted as an alternative to university but the number of those opportunities that are available to young people leaving school are a drop in the ocean of all the Degree Apprenticeships available. Theyre in the main going to older apprentices who are already employees. The other big issue we find is that there is socioeconomic segregation. So, some of the most competitive Degree Apprenticeships are even more exclusive than undergraduate degrees. Competition is intense and the Research Also shows more Degree Apprentices are from wealthier areas. In the main, theyre being given to existing employees of big organisations as continuing professional development, and that is a problem because Degree Apprenticeships are not being used as a tool for Social Mobility in the way they really could be. The government created Degree Apprenticeships in 2015 to give students practical experience while earning earning a qualification. At the time the minister for skills and said all apprenticeships are one of the most powerful motors of Social Mobility and productivity growth. But if there arent enough course places and there is little focus on school leavers, as some have claimed, do they actually achieve that objective . Crown, you get your a level results tomorrow, you are feeling confident and you have got plan b if it doesnt go according to plan but you dont want to Go To University. What are you looking to pursue . Im are you looking to pursue . Im lookin are you looking to pursue . In looking towards an apprenticeship in the financial sector. I looked at university, might school made me apply to newcastle and i got in but it isnt as attractive as it used to be. Ifeel like you it isnt as attractive as it used to be. I feel like you are paying so much and the quality of education sometimes doesnt match. To get my degree and get a graduate job when it is so competitive, they dont pay enough and i could be underworked when i could get an apprenticeship and i could get all of that experience, i could have four years of extra experience over someone with a degree and i have a qualification at the end and id be working for a company. Qualification at the end and id be working for a company. Ross, youve heard what working for a company. Ross, youve heard what crown working for a company. Ross, youve heard what crown said, working for a company. Ross, youve heard what crown said, you working for a company. Ross, youve heard what crown said, you want working for a company. Ross, youve heard what crown said, you want to l heard what crown said, you want to Go To University. Why did you make that decision, assuming you get your results . I hope you do. For that decision, assuming you get your results . I hope you do. Results . I hope you do. For me, ive stru led results . I hope you do. For me, ive struggled with results . I hope you do. For me, ive struggled with deciding results . I hope you do. For me, ive struggled with deciding exactly struggled with deciding exactly what i struggled with deciding exactly what i want struggled with deciding exactly what i want to struggled with deciding exactly what i want to do as i get older. Talking to dominic. I want to do as i get older. Talking to dominic, it is something you have struggled to dominic, it is something you have struggled with. It is something a lot of struggled with. It is something a lot of young people have, deciding what they lot of young people have, deciding what they want to do at 17, 18. If you are what they want to do at 17, 18. If you are going to go down the route of an you are going to go down the route of an apprenticeship or alternative qualifications, you are specialising and for qualifications, you are specialising and for me qualifications, you are specialising and for me it is too early to do that and for me it is too early to do that and and for me it is too early to do that and university gives me a Wider Perspective that and university gives me a Wider Perspective of what i can move into as i perspective of what i can move into as i get perspective of what i can move into as i get older and graduate. 0bviously. Eden, lets hearfrom obviously. Eden, lets hearfrom you. You are still doing your course. I dont know if you know what you want to do when you get your degree. You regretting Student Experience . Your degree. You regretting student exerience . , your degree. You regretting student exnerience . Experience . Ideally university is su osed experience . Ideally university is sopposed to experience . Ideally university is sopposed to be experience . Ideally university is supposed to be about experience . Ideally university is supposed to be about the experience . Ideally university is supposed to be about the real. Experience . Ideally university is supposed to be about the real world and i supposed to be about the real world and i dont supposed to be about the real world and i dont think supposed to be about the real world and i dont think that supposed to be about the real world and i dont think that it supposed to be about the real world and i dont think that it really supposed to be about the real world and i dont think that it really is and i dont think that it really is any more and i dont think that it really is any more. Students and i dont think that it really is any more. Students have and i dont think that it really is any more. Students have had. And i dont think that it really is| any more. Students have had to and i dont think that it really is any more. Students have had to grow up any more. Students have had to grow up really any more. Students have had to grow up really fast any more. Students have had to grow up really fast over any more. Students have had to grow up really fast over the any more. Students have had to grow up really fast over the last any more. Students have had to grow up really fast over the last few up really fast over the last few years up really fast over the last few years with up really fast over the last few years with all up really fast over the last few years with all the up really fast over the last few years with all the issues up really fast over the last few years with all the issues they. Up really fast over the last few. Years with all the issues they are facing years with all the issues they are facing in years with all the issues they are facing. In terms years with all the issues they are facing. In terms of years with all the issues they are facing. In terms of what years with all the issues they are facing. In terms of what i years with all the issues they are facing. In terms of what i want. Years with all the issues they are | facing. In terms of what i want to do, facing. 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Because the government labelled my degree a mickey mouse degree so it| degree a mickey mouse degree so it made degree a mickey mouse degree so it made mew degree a mickey mouse degree so it made mew it degree a mickey mouse degree so it made mew it is degree a mickey mouse degree so it made me. It is politics, made me. It is politics, philosophy made me. It is politics, philosophy and made me. It is politics, philosophy and law made me. It is politics, philosophy and law and l made me. It is politics, i philosophy and law and they made me. It is politics, philosophy and law and they said it wasnt philosophy and law and they said it wasnt going philosophy and law and they said it wasnt going to philosophy and law and they said it wasnt going to be philosophy and law and they said it wasnt going to be as philosophy and law and they said it wasnt going to be as worthwhile. Philosophy and law and they said it| wasnt going to be as worthwhile in the future wasnt going to be as worthwhile in the future so wasnt going to be as worthwhile in the future so they wasnt going to be as worthwhile in the future so they steered wasnt going to be as worthwhile in the future so they steered me the future so they steered me towards the future so they steered me towards stem, the future so they steered me towards stem, which the future so they steered me towards stem, which is the future so they steered me i towards stem, which is obviously guite towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. Towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. As towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. As someone towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. As someone who| towards stem, which is obviously i quite valuable. As someone who is going quite valuable. As someone who is going to quite valuable. As someone who is going to come quite valuable. As someone who is going to come out quite valuable. As someone who is going to come out with quite valuable. As someone who is going to come out with a quite valuable. As someone who is going to come out with a lot quite valuable. As someone who is going to come out with a lot of going to come out with a lot of debt going to come out with a lot of debt the going to come out with a lot of debt. The word going to come out with a lot of debt. The word you going to come out with a lot of debt. The word you are going to come out with a lot of| debt. The word you are looking going to come out with a lot of debt. The word you are looking for is life debt. The word you are looking for is life tax. Debt. The word you are looking for is life tax. By debt. The word you are looking for is life tax, by the debt. The word you are looking for is life tax, by the way. Debt. The word you are looking for is life tax, by the way. As debt. The word you are looking fori is life tax, by the way. As someone who is is life tax, by the way. As someone who is going is life tax, by the way. As someone who is going to is life tax, by the way. As someone who is going to come is life tax, by the way. As someone who is going to come out is life tax, by the way. As someone who is going to come out with is life tax, by the way. As someone who is going to come out with load | who is going to come out with load of debt, who is going to come out with load of debt, being who is going to come out with load of debt, being told who is going to come out with load of debt, being told by who is going to come out with load of debt, being told by the of debt, being told by the government of debt, being told by the government and of debt, being told by the. Government and institutions of debt, being told by the government and institutions that of debt, being told by the government and institutions that my degree government and institutions that my degree isnt government and institutions that my degree isnt worthwhile government and institutions that my degree isnt worthwhile is government and institutions that my degree isnt worthwhile is very degree isnt worthwhile is very disheartening degree isnt worthwhile is very disheartening and degree isnt worthwhile is very disheartening and sad, degree isnt worthwhile is very. Disheartening and sad, actually. Weve disheartening and sad, actually. Weve got disheartening and sad, actually. Weve got about disheartening and sad, actually. Weve got about 90 disheartening and sad, actually. Weve got about 90 seconds, i disheartening and sad, actually. Weve got about 90 seconds, dom . Apprenticeship used to be a dirty word and looked down on but now it is a route into industry and you get four years of experience and a qualification at the end as well as experience in industry. I0. Qualification at the end as well as experience in industry. Experience in industry. 10, you decided to experience in industry. 10, you decided to go experience in industry. 10, you decided to go back experience in industry. 10, you decided to go back into experience in industry. 10, you i decided to go back into education with two children under five. Briefly, why did you make that decision . Briefly, why did you make that decision . ,. , decision . The thing is, when you enter into decision . The thing is, when you enter into certain decision . The thing is, when you enter into certain sectors, decision . The thing is, when you enter into certain sectors, the i enter into certain sectors, the apprenticeship route is impossible, especially apprenticeship route is impossible, especially if you are a mature student~ especially if you are a mature student. It has a full time requirement, the wages are very low and you requirement, the wages are very low and you have the Cost Of Living crisis and you have the Cost Of Living crisis to and you have the Cost Of Living crisis to deal with. Its a great opportunity for younger people who are maybe unsure about a career path it are maybe unsure about a career path it isnt are maybe unsure about a career path. It isnt one that fits all. In regard path. It isnt one that fits all. In regard to