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Transcripts For BBCNEWS Victoria Derbyshire 20240714

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And 21 in the towns and cities. The countryside will be more comfortable at 11pm. We have a weak cold front bringing patchy cloud across england and scotland. There will be lower temperatures for these areas on monday. Into eastern wales and central and eastern england, that is where we will see the highest temperatures again, 33 are maybe 3a in the hottest spots. Hello this is bbc news with julian worricker. The headlines. Borisjohnson has said the chances of a brexit deal are touch and go ahead of his meeting with the Eu Council President at the g7 summit. Ido i do think that they understand that there is an opportunity to do a deal. But i think the also. I think it is going to be touch and go. President trump says a very big trade deal after brexit is on the menu as the two men hold a working breakfast. The uks biggest airports will install 3 d baggage scanners to make security checks quicker. And now on bbc news, a look back at some of the highlights this week from the Victoria Derbyshire programme. Hello and welcome. Over the next half hour, well show you some of the highlights from oui programme over the last week. And we start on facebook, where thousands of women in groups across the country are naming and shaming the men they claim have abused them. Prick advisor was set up to be a force for good a social media group where women can warn other women about all sorts of negative behaviour by men, from cheating, through to violence, rape and even child abuse. But theres also been a backlash, with some men saying theyve been falsely accused and that privacy and libel laws are being breached. Heres more. I had been pushed and dragged around and thrown on the floor. She was three years old when she just came up to me and said, mummy, daddy hurt me. We feel like women are being failed by the system. The women across britain taking their alleged abuse into their own hands. Like a little army of women looking out for each other all across the country. Posting in a facebook group, where women name and shame the partners they claim have abused them. Some other woman out there that could be at risk could be warned. But in the murky world of social media, when does naming and shaming go wrong . There was pictures of me. She was calling me controlling, she was calling me abusive to her. Its like a public hanging of men. So ive been following the prick advisor pages for a few months now. The Main National page has got 100,000 members and then theres loads of smaller regional pages, that have anything between a few hundred to 40,000 women in there. Now, most of the women say that its a force for good, but i want to know if the groups are a symptom of women that have been let down by local authorities that have been cut, or is it a sign of where were at with social media . And on this quiet cul de sac in bradford, weve come to meet sam wright as shes sifting through posts from 8,000 women across west yorkshire. Shes a regional administrator of one of many prick advisor groups across the country. Women come to us to post up about a guy that they maybe potentially dating, to somebody that they think may have had a violent past, to somebody that they are concerned that theyre still sort of dating somebody else, or theyre beating me up. Or he passed me on a sexually transmitted disease. It could be anything. Women in the group say they want to warn others, because of the hurt and the abuse they faced at the hands of violent men. Women like claire, who experienced an incident of abuse at the hands of a partner. During the relationship id been pushed and dragged around and thrown on the floor. I was quite isolated. I felt, like, unhappy and sad most days. Claires partner was charged with battery. She eventually left the relationship and moved away to protect her children. Her partner now has no contact with his family. Ive had depression, ive had days where i dont open the curtains or want to go out of the house. Any counselling or anything ive had, any therapies ive had, ive had to seek myself. Ive had to really go and shout about it. There wouldnt be that many members in these groups if the women werent feeling like they needed that support. Statistics show that an estimated 1. 3 million women experienced some form of Domestic Abuse last year and the 18 of the women who were abused by their partners in that year reported the abuse to the police. Police forces already have something in place for a woman to access information that might protect her from abuse. Its called clares law, but that information is only accessible when a man has had a conviction for domestic violence. I dont think that its publicised enough, whereas with the group, youve got something thats straight there to hand, where you canjust type in somebodys name and just see straightaway if theyre on there. Clearly, in the comments, theres quite a few people that know him. Yeah. Used to work with him. How do you actually make sure the allegations that women are posting about men are true . Because, obviously, if theyre not true, its really got the potential to ruin someones life and their reputation. Its a lot of responsibility on us to sort of look at both sides and think, right, well, whos was telling the truth . Sometimes, itsjust easierjust to take the post down. Obviously, without police involvement, it is just one persons word. Do you ever worry about getting caught in between a situation where maybe a man is being accused and it isnt true . Ive had threats. Like, i am going to come to your house, youve had it. Weve had a lot snitching. Where are they will screenshot and you can guarantee within, sometimes, id say less than five minutes of a post going up, it can be fed back to the person thats been posted about. Its like 100,000 followers on there and my name, my picture. Bleep is an absolutely narcissistic, vile human being. And when the posts do get screenshotted and leaked, what happens if it isnt true . What happens to the men who become falsely accused . There it was in black and white. She plastered it all over facebook. She was calling me controlling. She was calling me abusive to her. I mean, its something that i cant prove, because how can i go on there and prove my innocence . I live in quite a small town. It had that effect on my business. People stopped coming to me for things. Could you imagine if it was men talking about women, talking about their bodies, talking about their sex lives . I mean a lot of people would just say this is your word against hers. In my case, its just a crazy ex, thats gone on there that wants to call me all the names under the sun and ruin my reputation. And its worked. Its happened. Of all the stories weve seen shared on the prick advisor page, probably one of the most shocking is that maries. Its not her real name were going to protect her identity but i first saw her story shared by one of her friends. She posted the name, the location and a picture of one of maries ex partners, that she said sexually abused maries daughter, at three years old. Marie says her daughter started having night terrors, stopped talking and became incontinent in the months following her meeting her ex partner. She was three years old when she just came up to me and said, mummy, daddy hurt my bum. I said, was he cleaning you . And she said, no. Daddy hurt my bum with his front bum. As soon as she said it, i knew. All the signs that id missed came flying back into my head. To have my daughter, my own child, tell me Something Like that at the age of three. Itjust made me crumble. Marie reported it to the police and even though there was physical evidence of penetration, the cps didnt feel that the case was Strong Enough to take it to trial. Your ex partners name, his picture, where he was from, as well as the accusations of him abusing your 3 year old daughter, were put into the group. Do you think you realise the legal implications of that information being put in what is essentially a public group . Yeah. Im not bothered about his identity being shown. Im not bothered about the danger that goes to him. People need to know what he is. For the future, if your daughter does want to maybe one day take it to trial, would you feel worried about that information having gone out there already . No. They cant turn around and say well, someone your mum knows decides to post to prick advisor. So we cant charge him for it. The page that marie posted on was later suspended by facebook and her post is no longer up on the site. A similar suspension happened to sams regional page, but she says it wasnt clear what content violated facebook rules. We literally got the group handed back to us. There was nothing saying why it had been removed in the first place. Other than the fact that wed broken community standards. How would you feel, off the back of this piece, if facebook did try to take it down . Its really difficult, because obviously its like going back to square one again and building it up with the members. I think i would definitely open up another one, because, otherwise, its like being bullied by facebook into not giving these women a chance to open up and speak out. In a statement, facebook told us next, yousef makki was killed with a single stab wound to the heart, in an upmarket part of Greater Manchester on the 2nd of march. He died following an argument with a friend known as boy a, who said he acted in self defence and denied murder. He was found not guilty of both murder and manslaughter following a trial at Manchester Crown court, but admitted carrying a knife. Another boy, known as boy b, was cleared of perverting the course ofjustice by lying to police about what hed seen. Boy b also pleaded guilty to possession of a knife, but this was in a different location and at a different time to the incident in which mr makki was stabbed. Both boy a and boy b was sentenced to 16 months and four months respectively. Yousefs mum, debbie, is now calling for their sentences to be reviewed and for tougher sentences for all knife crimes. Earlier this week, joanna spoke to debbie and she asked her what yousef was like. Very studious, very witty, very lively. Very sporty. Everything he did, he did it to 100 . He loved boxing, he loved basketball. Any sport. He was just a lovely person to be around. He was very, very popular as well, with his friends and his teachers and with his boxing club. Did you ever have any concerns about what might be going on when he was going out . No, because i always. He went to stay at friends houses and they were always from well, what we say posher areas and i always spoke to the parents first, to make sure that he was getting there and what time hed be there and vice versa. His friends would come to my house and theyd do the same. How did you get the call, or the knock on the door to tell you what had happened . Id been speaking to him up until the saturday afternoon. He normally came home to eat about 7. 30ish. And i was just watching tv with my other son and the knock came on the door and i thought it was yousef, but i saw the flashing light and when i opened the door, the police officerjust said, come with me. And all the way i was saying to him, you know, whats happened . I knew something was bad. But he said, i cant tell you, but its to do with yousef. And i knew knew straightaway what had happened. And at that point, had he actually died . Did you get to see him . Hed actually had a procedure, because the tree where he fell, it was a cardiothoracic surgeon who lived there. He came out and gave him a procedure on his heart. And as he reached the hospital, another surgeon tried. But, within seconds, it was too late. Did you get to see yousef . I did after theyd cleaned him up and everything. Yeah, in the hospital. I mean, as any any parent, anybody would just think how on earth do you cope with that . Yeah. Well, you just cant perceive it. Its just like watching a movie, but somebody elses movie. Very quickly, you went from that moment, to actually headlong, into a trial. The trials already happened. Two boys have been. Well, one was cleared of murder and manslaughter but convicted of possession of a knife. A second boy was convicted of knife possession, as well. Sentenced, respectively, to eight months and four months. What was it like going into a trial so quickly after something so dreadful happening to your son and your family . Itsjust like going through the thing all over again. Because you have a few months after the funeral and everything and then you start the trial, and it was a long trial every day for four weeks and id never been inside a court or anything. You know, the whole court itself was just unbelievable. The way we were treated. We were put up into a public gallery, werent allowed to sit in the court, in case we intimidated them. Yeah, the whole thing was very distressing, especially for four weeks. When you say you werent allowed into the court for fear of the defendants being intimidated, how were you told that and how did you respond to that . First of all, we asked the cps. They looked into it and came back to me and said, youre not allowed in the court because they need their families near them, because theyre only 17. And plus, you might intimidate them. And then i asked the court usher. I put a request into the judge and they said the same thing that we werent allowed in the court. How did that make you feel . Like a criminal. We werejust. We were just put upstairs like criminals. Every time we made a noise, we were told we were going to be thrown out. Because there was a lot of young boys there from Manchester Grammar School who came to support yousef. And maybe, you know, sometimes there werent enough seats they had to sit outside the whole day. But they were just there to support him because they loved him so much. You must have seen and heard things in that trial that were very difficult to deal with. Yeah. What sort of things were you hearing and seeing that you found especially difficult . First of all, there was the 999 calls. And then there was one of yousef actually lay on the floor bleeding out, while the paramedics were dealing with him. And that was shown close up on a large screen. With no warning . With no warning, whatsoever. We were told afterwards, oops, thats a mistake. But once youve seen something obviously you cant get it out of your head. How did those in yourfamily. . Fortunately, i wasnt there that day, but the Close Friends and teachers, and especially my daughter she just couldnt get it out of her head. She said, ill always think of that vision when i think of yousef. Yeah. Were there any positive moments for you through that trial, anything that. . The only positive moment. Well, not moment, but all the way through we were told by the cps we had a solid case. So, i didnt feel that the outcome was going to be what it was. The actual day when the verdict came, it was just devastating. To hear them say that. Yousefs father shouted out, where is the justice for my son . How did you react, how did you feel . I dont remember that actual moment in time, because every Single Person was feeling the same way. His friends, family, we were all in tears. We were all devastated. So, there was a lot of police running around trying to calm us down. We just didnt expect that. And the jury decided, in the end, that the boy who stabbed yousef acted in self defence, after yousef punched him and pulled out a knife. The jury heard the stabbing was an accident waiting to happen because all three of them indulged in idiotic fantasies playing middle class gangsters. When you heard that sort of evidence, how did you feel . First of all, middle class gangsters yousef wasnt in the same class as the two boys, so they got that wrong. Gangsters, no. Yousef was a boxer. Boy as family issued a statement afterwards saying there are no winners in this case. Yousefs death was a tragedy and our son will have to live with his responsibility for the rest of his life. But the makki familys hurt and loss are infinitely greater. Nothing we can say can make up for that or change it. How do you feel about that . The boys themselves used to moonwalk down the corridor and laugh. Moonwalk . Can you describe what they were doing. Like michaeljackson, you know, walk backwards, and then laugh or dance about and laugh every time they saw one of us. And even when the boys were taken down in court, you know, there was nothing. There was no remorse shown. You know, i think to make a Statement Like that, anybody can say they feel remorse, but do they actually feel it . We didnt feel that way. I know that you want the sentencing now looked at. Yes. What do you want to happen . The attorney general is looking at this. Yes. Weve actually sought Legal Proceedings now. If not for retrial, then for more lenient sentences to the judge. Four months for one of them for carrying a knife hell get out in two months and thats not a deterrent to anybody who is going to carry a knife, to me you know, two months is nothing. So, hopefully, were going to do a petition. We need 10,000 signatures to take it to parliament to change the sentences tougher sentences on knife crime and also, for the whole injustice of everything in the trial. So, first of all, on knife crime, do you have an idea in your mind as to what sentences should be . Maybe not even specifically about what happened to you, butjust generally . Even for carrying an offensive weapon, it should be at least five years. I know that you want changes to the trial system. Yes. What do you want to see . Better treatment for the victims families, really. In what way . First of all, they should be allowed to go to the court to hear everything, at least. If they want to keep them separate from others, then fine. You know, have a victims suite or. I was aware that there was a victims suite, but i never actually got to see it in all the days i was there. So, theres certain things that need to be done in that way. And i know that you do feel very strongly about class issues. Yes, i do. Yeah. Why, what are your feelings on that . Because if. It was the other way round. If yousef would have killed one of these boys, im sure he wouldnt have got bail. He wouldnt have got two top lawyers on his case and he surely wouldnt. Well, hed probably be locked up now for a very long time, to be honest. Have you as a family been able to stop and breathe and actually properly grieve . No, not really, no. Because its one thing after another. We thought it would be over after the trial. Now, its just like another trial, all over again. Your son was effectively described as behaving like a gangster. How will you remember him . Ill remember him as the boy whojust always made me laugh, always came in the house smiling, and went round the house all day telling us all how much he loved us. And he was just full of life all the time. That was debbie makki, yousefs mother. Well, the cps told us in a statement we know the justice process can be incredibly challenging for grieving families and, working with police, we work hard to make sure they feel as supported as possible. We have met with the makki family to discuss their concerns about the outcome. We respect the decision of the jury and our deepest sympathies remain with yousefs family. The lawyers for boy b have told us they dispute the claim that he moonwalked in the court building. They say theyve spoken to other people who were in the court who have confirmed to them that it didnt happen. On tuesday, we revealed that a no deal brexit could cost the farming industry around £850 million a year in lost profits. Thats according to research seen by our programme. The business consultants, andersons, who advise more than 2000 farm across the country, as well as the government, say, without a significant increase in Financial Support, its inevitable some will struggle to survive. Jim reid reports. Colin ferguson runs his own herd of dairy cows in south west scotland. In 2016, he voted to leave the eu, a decision he doesnt regret. Yeah, i probably would vote the same way. The problem is weve done nothing in the last three years and its been really tiring to watch. But leaving the eu without an agreement in place could have a big impact on the dairy industry here. The trade in cheese and butter, for example, would move straight to wto, or world trade organisation, rules. If we drop into wto rules, our borders are open to cheap imports, as they would call them, so food can come from anywhere in the world. It doesnt necessarily need to meet Animal Welfare standards that we conform to, so therefore our market gets undermined by cheap produce. The business consultancy, andersons, has more than 2000 farming clients. Its calculations suggest total industry profits could fall by £850 million, under a no deal brexit. That would be an 18 drop, in the first year after we leave. If you get a hit in terms of profitability of 18 , then that has huge implications for the future viability of such farms. A short drive from the dairy farm in scotland is the port of cairnryan. Belfast is two hours away across the north channel. Northern ireland is the only part of the uk that shares a land border with the eu. The republic of ireland is just five kilometres from here, in that direction. Whatever happens in october is likely to have a huge impact on lives and livelihoods, on both sides of that border. Much of the lamb produced here is exported. Under a no deal brexit, its likely to face tariffs making it 35 more expensive. The politicians making the decisions will not financially suffer. Its us as farmers that are going to suffer. I would come out in october one way or the other. Even if theres no deal . Even if theres no deal, i still would be inclined. Were hanging on too long. The government says, over time, brexit will allow it to replace eu farm subsidies with a fairer system. If we leave with no deal, it says it will provide more Financial Support if needed, though it describes that as unlikely. Well, thats it for this weeks programme. A reminder that you can always send us your ideas at victoria bbb. Co. Uk. Were back on monday morning at 10am on bbc two and the bbc news channel. There have been a few exceptions to the gloriously sunny weather we have seen across the uk today. Those exceptions across coastal areas of wales and parts of South West England where we have seen a bit of cloud moving in from time to time. Blue skies all the way and that was the glorious scene earlier on and around the fort william, the highlands of scotland. Overnight, we will keep the clear skies, patchy cloud will develop across Western Areas and move into perhaps western scotland. A warm night for sleeping, after a warm day. Temperatures between 18 and 21 in the towns and cities. The countryside will be more comfortable at 11pm. We have a weak cold front bringing patchy cloud across england and scotland. There will be lower temperatures for these areas on monday. Into eastern wales and central and eastern england, that is where we will see the highest temperatures again, 33 are maybe 3a in the hottest spots. This is bbc news. The headlines. Boris johnson says the chances of a brexit deal are touch and go ahead of his meeting with the Eu Council President at the g7 summit. I do think that they understand that theres an opportunity to do a deal. But i think they also. So its more likely than it was, do you think . I think its going to be touch and go. President trump says a very big trade deal after brexit is on the menu as the two men hold a working breakfast. We are having very, very good meetings. We are going to do a fantastic deal once we clear up some of the obstacles in our path. The uks biggest airports will install 30 baggage scanners

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