Nairobi. When it comes to politics, kenya has a history of violent and disputed elections. I am at the home of the veteran Opposition Leader raila odinga for this exclusive interview. He has gone and had himself sworn in as the peoples president in an act which the government says amounts to high treason. Is he acting irresponsibly, is legally and stoking tensions . Illegally. Raila odinga, welcome to hardtalk. Honestly, do you really believe you are president of kenya . Do i look president ial . You are wearing a sharp suit. I really do believe i am the president. If you listen to what people are saying, for example, alien fm Radio Station that supports the government, they say things like your so called swearing in ceremony is meaningless. Whereas Raila Odingas state house, a Farewell Party for you. That is what kenyans are saying. There are a few kenyans to say that. Of course it is just a joke they are making. They know that the occasion was a serious occasion. It was aimed at ending the circus of the elections last year so that we can move forward. You do not. As the peoples president we have an important agenda that we want to put forward in order to bring this country back on track. There is no constitutional basis for what you have done, declaring yourself peoples president and saying you wa nt to peoples president and saying you want to set up a parallel government. President Uhuru Kenyatta is very angry with you and your swearing in has been described as a comedy and a drama. Those who continue to create drama should be now that they are on their own. You are an your now that they are on their own. You are an your own. Now that they are on their own. You are an your own. They are a comedy. It is based on the constitution. We made the constitution. We made the constitution and ensure that kenyans have power with an institution like this. That is in our constitution. The people of kenya can exercise their power directly or donated to their power directly or donated to their elected representatives. that were the case then you had the support you claim you have, why do three of your four Coalition Partners in nassar, the National Super alliance, he opposition grouping that you head, three of the four stayed away including youre running mate. You are on your own. They do not approve. Some will say was taken out at a later date. But he did not turn up. He did not turn up he did not turn up. He did not turn up and he explained why he did not turn up. I do not want to speak for him. What saying is that they are not being there did not reduce the significance or the importance of the occasion. They stand behind and they supported. When you talk to people in kenya, informed opinion suggest that they did not support you because they are relatively young and you are in your early 70s, they think they have a political future and they do not want to be involved in this act that the government has described as an act of high treason. They know very clearly that if we do not solve the dispute over the 2017 elections, there will be no 2022 elections because if you get away with stealing and rigging the way they did the last time, there is no guarantee that 2022 will be different. What were to do is bring an end to electoral fraud, and electoral forcing and electoral coup, a coup detat on the people. People voted one way and the government, because they have taken the electoral body positive, a hostage, they impose themselves on the people. Taken the electoral body hostage. There were two elections last year. One on august eight that was declared null and void because you challenged it and said there was fraud and the government, president Uhuru Kenyatta accepted that reluctantly. 0ctober 26 there was a second election which you decided not to run in. And then that went ahead and president Uhuru Kenyatta won that election. The result was upheld by the International Community, the African Union said that the result was good. The european union, the united states, the entire world accepted the validity of that election result in october. The Supreme Court, in making a ruling, said there were illegalities and irregularities that influenced the election in august. They ordered the commission to conduct an election in accordance with the law and constitution. So we asked the commission to sit down and address the illegalities and irregularities before the election went ahead so that we do not repeat what happened in august. But, really, if you had challenged the validity of that election in august and the Supreme Court agreed to rerun it, surely you should have run in october and if you were unhappy with the result, challenge it again in the court. What would you do in my situation . When the chairman of the Electoral Commission himself, a days before the october elections, on Live Television says that he is unprepared, he is not ready. The commission in court that a free and fair election. 0ne commissioner resigned citing illegalities, and pressure, saying that four of the seven commissioners took their instructions from the state. So you do not believe the reforms were not undertaken and that is why you did not stand. So now, based on the result of the august election you say you are the peoples president. You went to the Supreme Court and said you do not agree with that election at all and now you are saying to us actually, i won that election. It sounds quite contradictory, that you are flip flopping. Contradictory, that you are flipflopping. No, no. When the Supreme Court nullified the declaration by the commission that Uhuru Kenyatta had won the election, they did not nullify. Remember in they did not nullify. Remember in the hearing i petitioned the court to command the commission to open a serverfor to command the commission to open a server for verification. The commission refused to comply with the order. What you have done is you have seized an opportunity to seize the server and produce the authentic results in august eight. And you say that gave you half a million more votes tha n that gave you half a million more votes than Uhuru Kenyatta. Now, lets look at your peoples president claimed. The International Community has said that this has no validity. The chair of the African Union commission has criticised your so called swearing in and says he rejects all action that undermines the constitutional and rule of law. The Us State Department has said that what it was not correct. The American Ambassador here in nairobi has also criticised your actions. Nobody approves of what you are doing. Only you see this in a very bad light. The African Union. The African Union have been defending dictators. In the past they needed to come in military uniform and military coup. This year they hold nowadays they hold electoral coup detat. So the African Union refute that. How about the American Ambassador. You say you want him recalled because you arent happy with the statement. Remember, i told you that a days before the october election, the Commission Chairman said he was not ready. 0ne election, the Commission Chairman said he was not ready. One day before the repeat election the Supreme Court was unable to hear a petition requesting a postponement because of a lack of proper preparation. Two days before means the western departments diplomats. When you go from here . You you are the peoples president. Use a that we will work like a government and appoint ministers, evenif government and appoint ministers, even if we have to run a government in exile. That is what you said on january 18 on voice of america. Those were your words. What we mean to say, we have said it clearly. They refuse us assemblies and we have had, basically, with various assemblies, and pass through blood resolutions. Those resolutions will be taken to the Peoples Convention that will be held when . Shortly. And who is in these assemblies . The elections in october we re assemblies . The elections in october were for the National Assembly, for governorships and so on. Many members of your coalition, and nasa, are serving as mps and are serving as governors. They are not part of this parallel assembly and government that you say you want to set up. There. What you are doing what we are doing here is setting up a Peoples Convention. Having then taken oath as the peoples president then the Peoples Convention will deliberate on the resolutions that are coming from the assemblies on how we want matters to be handled. There are six Critical Issues coming up. Electoral justice. Independent judiciary is. Police reform. The restructuring and strengthening of the revolution. The restructuring of power and, finally, inclusion, ethnic inclusion in government in this country. What will you do . You set up this convention. What will you do . March on the National Assembly and say we demand these changes . What is your plan . You dont want to remove Uhuru Kenyatta from the state house . So you accept him as president . Do you accept his presidency . No, we do not accept his presidency. Because we say it lacks legitimacy. And he says that you have committed high treason. Have you committed a treasonous attack . No. We have not committed treason. Were saying that Uhuru Kenyatta is not legitimate because 0ctober were saying that Uhuru Kenyatta is not legitimate because october 26 less tha n not legitimate because october 26 less than 20 of the voters. Not legitimate because october 26 less than 2096 of the voters. You have explained that. Do you want a third election . We want another election. When do you want that election . In august this year. Why did your colleague say that the state has declared war and we will not relent untiljustice is achieved . The state has declared war on you . You can see the way the state is acting, completely against the constitution. It set it aside. They are not being court orders, Holding People hostage despite court orders. Are being supplied this includes your lawyer. These are people who the government is questioning because they believed they were complicit in a treasonous act. No government would accept a parallel government. They must act within the law. They have to be free until Proven Guilty through due process. The government has to follow the constitution. It has no authority to close all media houses. They have reopened two of the three, mostly. Not all of them. Yeah, well citizentv is pending. That was illegal. What happens now, that is my point. You say the state has declared war. What if your supporters do not get what they want . We have enacted article one. 0ur want . We have enacted article one. Our people will not relent until justice is served. Civil disobedience . We will, but everything will be peaceful. It will bea everything will be peaceful. It will be a peaceful protest untiljustice is served. A breakaway republic. You told the Financial Times in western kenya, your hometown, where your tribe are based, you said the debate about Self Determination is gaining currency. That is true, zeinab badawi. If you go to most parts of the country, they will say they will not accept donation. People will tell you we do not want to be killed like rats by the police. Thats if you talk ill of the president. That is not a good sign of a country. It is not a good sign of a country. It isa is not a good sign of a country. It is a country in complex. Precisely. Precisely. It needs to be resolved. 1300 people were killed, 600,000 displaced. There is an accusation against you, i tell you what the mp, moses, said, he said injune that you want to set this country on a final inferno. Are you instigating violence . I have at all times resisted in attempts to use violent means to bring about change. In 2007, you saw the country aflame. 0ne 2007, you saw the country aflame. One of the people came forward and said, no, lets negotiate. I have offered and agreed to take the position of a Prime Minister with the backing of those defeated in elections. Are you not acting irresponsibly . You have a background of tensions. You have a former chief justice seen on the fourth of february i keep on having nightmares about the possibility of civil war. Saying. When you throw your peoples president and parallel assemblies, are you not fanning the fla mes assemblies, are you not fanning the fla m es of assemblies, are you not fanning the flames of tensions . We will use peaceful protest. Many people are trying to take ethnicity and tribalism out of kenyon politics, but he says you behave like a tribal king and you do play the tribal card. Kenyan. Is thata king and you do play the tribal card. Kenyan. Is that a valued criticism . That is preposterous. Kenyatta knows my Political Base is nairobi, fairly cosmopolitan. This is my constituency. Your stronghold, with the people you have a visceral attachment to, and they queue, as a former Vice President said of you, you are a fairly divisive figure because people who love you, he says, are indulging in. To youph. And then there is the phobia of you, your critics. I beat kenyatta on the coast by far. I beat him in the eastern region. I beat him in the North Eastern region. I beat him in the west. And also in nairobi. He only beat me in the river valley and his hometown. Who is more cosmopolitan . Who is more accepted by the people . It is me, not kenyatta. People who care about this issue, like nikki haley, they are calling for a full dialogue between religious and Business Leaders and so on to help create unity. They add political conflicts and differences have destabilised the country. Why do you not pursue that kind of strategy, say lets come together, as kenyatta said in his inauguration in november, we have to have the courage to embrace the future and free ourselves from the baggage of past grievances. Go down that path. That is the part i suggested. We have been talking about dialogue. Do you know how to resolve this impasse, to resolve these contentious issues . Kenyatta is pretending there is no contention, that there is no crisis. He wants to talk about his development agenda, what they call the four point agenda. We have issues to talk about before development. We have issues of electoral justice. Before development. We have issues of electoraljustice. They will not die away. The point is the people in kenya, one businessman says we are more concerned about the country not stagnating. We want the country to stabilise the. The world bank said the legal and Political Uncertainty could undermine its recovery. You are relatively well off by kenyan standards, but many people want to see growth in this country. They do not want to see it held up by Political Uncertainty. That is what you are doing, prolonging the uncertainty. We are not prolonging it. Jenny will move forward. Kenya. The years under kenyatta were wasted yea rs. We kenya. The years under kenyatta were wasted years. We gave him the opportunity. But it was all wasted. Look at the kind of corruption in the country, the wastage in the country, the kind of debt burden he imposed on the people, the cost of living here has soared so much most people cannot afford the basics that they require like the stable food of they require like the stable food of the country. Prices are so high. Unemployment, 40 of the youth are unemployed in the country. And surely all of that needs to be addressed and not have this comedy of drama as the Vice President said of drama as the Vice President said of your parallel presidency, the so called peoples presidency. There has to be a winner in an election, and he says you are a sore loser. That is really hogwash. How can i be a sore loser when i won in 2007 . I left the loser to proceed as president. I lost in 1997 and accepted. In 2013, i accepted the ruling of the Supreme Court. So you are not a sore loser . I am not a sore loser. I am a gentleman. Most people understand that to be kenyatta is a bitter person, filled with emotions, that is why he does not want any serious dialogue. This isa not want any serious dialogue. This is a serious conflict in this country. Mr odinga, thank you so much for coming on hardtalk thank you so much, zeinab. Hello. It feels like weve been stuck in the deep freeze over the last few days, and thats not going to change very much during wednesday. Cold air remains firmly in place, and some of us have some snow on the ground, as well that weather watcher picture from North Yorkshire on tuesday. Where we have the lying snow, particularly, there is the risk for some ice during wednesday. A widespread frost, certainly, to start the day, because we are still firmly ensconced in this cold air. Something a little bit milder out in the atlantic, but we wont feel the effects of that just yet. For the time being, this area of High Pressure giving most of us a fine, dry but cold start to the day, under largely clear skies. 0ur towns and cities down below freezing, but out in the countryside, those temperatures really have been dropping away. The sorts of temperatures well have to start the day between about 5 and 11 degrees. Still some snow, potentially, for a time across east anglia, and the south east, as well, this weather front tending to push away and another weather system starting to show its hand out west. That will start to thicken up the cloud through the morning across the western side of scotland. Perhaps just one or two showers clipping into north east scotland, but generally, across eastern scotland and down into the heart of england and wales, therell be a fair amount of sunshine. Some extra cloud for northern ireland. The odd shower, maybe, for west wales and the south west of england, and still some of those snow showers taking time to clear away from the far south east. But they should do so fairly smartly during the morning, in most areas, and then a nice slice of sunshine. Eastern scotland, and particularly england and wales, seeing plenty of crisp winter sunshine during wednesday, but this frontal system will thicken up the cloud out west. Outbreaks of rain, and ahead of that a spell of snow for a time, particularly across scotland. Still a chilly feel to the day. Now, as we go through wednesday night, well bring this band of cloud and rain, and some snow on its leading edge, further southwards and eastwards. But we start to pick up more of a south westerly wind, so thats going to bring some slightly milder air. These are your overnight lows edinburgh, belfast only down to four degrees. The coldest weather to start thursday morning will be across the south eastern corner, where the skies stay clearest. But thats where well have the best of the sunshine during the day on thursday, this band of cloud and outbreaks of rain continuing to sink southwards and eastwards, and in fact, the rain looks likely to turn heavier particularly across parts of wales and Northern England as we get on into the afternoon. Something brighterfollowing on behind for scotland and northern ireland, but with a fair rash of showers, a slightly milder day. But as we push that weather front away, we get back into the cold air, with some further snow showers for the end of the week. This is the briefing. Im sally bundock. Our top story. Theyre used to earthquakes but not like this. At least four dead, 200 injured, and around 150 still missing in a powerful quake in taiwan. The great bounce back stocks markets in asia are poised and we have lift off for whats being called the most powerful rocket ever built. And taking to the stand the controversial former boss of Uber Travis Kalanick is accused