Transcripts For BBCNEWS HARDtalk 20180118

The white house has never before seen a president like donald trump. He doesnt play by any conventional political rules. My guest today is anthony scaramucci, the white house director of communications for all of 11 days before he was fired in a media firestorm. But the mooch has stayed loyal to his former boss. Why . Anthony scaramucci, welcome to hardtalk. Its good to be back. Do you believe that donald trump is a president that the American People can be proud of . Yeah, i mean listen, were in a polarised country, so certainly 40 60 of the people are not going to like the president at any given time, i think thats been true unfortunately for the last 30 years. But, yeah, if you look at the diagnostics of whats going on in the last year in terms of the economic growth, the wage increases, the fact that hes tackling, or at least handling, our adversaries, and trying to build strong alliances with our allies, i think yes. Theres a lot to be proud of. Well talk economy and foreign policy, but i want to begin with the style and tone of this presidency. Arguably the most important job in the world. Do you believe that he is handling it in the right way . You have to remember, go back to the campaign, the candidate then was in front of 17 other potential candidates and the constant remark. I dont want you to go back to the campaign, what happens. I think its important. Stephen, he would have never been president. This whole notion of acting president ial, tweeting president ial versus not acting president ial, he would have never been president if he didnt take his combative style into that campaign, knock out the 17 competitors, knock out secretary clinton, then arrive in the white house. The man is the president. You call it combative style, but if were going to be specific, we talk about the kind of behaviour which leads him in a meeting with congressional leaders on immigration to use a word that im not even going to use, that is so directly to so many people. So disgusting that it has caused furore around the world. Have you ever used that word before . Ive never been president of the United States. Ok, but have you used the word before . Its not a word i use, no. Even if i had what has that got to do with it . Here is the sanctimony with the whole thing for me, ok, i grew up in a neighbourhood, we used tough language in the neighbourhood i grew up in. He grew up in a neighbourhood, in queens. He used tough language. Hes used tough language his entire career. So now hes in a private setting, were in this sort of crazy world now of social media and constant leaking. Everybody is now their own media expert and their cellphone is effectively a recording studio. And so now the president cant have a private conversation. Hes speaking to the australian prime minister, theres three people in the room, it gets leaked to the washington post. So youre telling me that president obama never used a curse word . Rahm emanuel never used a curse word. Youre missing my point. Its not the fact that its a curse word, its the context in which it was used. He was basically saying, why do we have. Im not missing the point, im addressing the sanctimony and the righteousness, 0k. Because what were doing now in our society is were tabulating every syllable and tabulating what people say. Weve now decided we want a portal into everybodys personal life and a portal into everybodys private discretionary conversations, and then when they Say Something that isnt discreet, we set our hairs on fire, we run around the world with our hair on fire. Let us be clear. Let me stop you. Youve got viewers that talk like that. Let me stop you for a second. What you seem to be saying is that a comment which in context was seen to be racist, notjust by his democratic opponents, but by republicans, some of them in that room as well, by the united nations, by the african nations he appeared to be referring to. Around the world the feeling was this was racism. And youre telling me you cant call out racism when it comes because its sanctimonious . First of all its not racism. I dont know if you said it all he didnt, because i wasnt in the room. There is mixed reports on whether or not he said it. Senator cotton didnt hear it. Senator durbin said that he heard it. Lets just litigate and stipulate that he said it for the point of this conversation. The point is, hes not a racist. Ive known the guy for 25 years, people in our community here in new york know hes not a racist. Lets look at some of mr trumps words and actions in the course of his presidency. He characterised mexican immigrants as rapists and criminals. He pardoned joe arpaio, the arizona sheriff who was convicted in federal court of using, in an unacceptable fashion, racial profiling. He responded to a neo nazi rally in charlottesville by referring to some fine people. When there was violence afterwards he said there was blame on many sides. He retweeted anti muslim propaganda videos from an extreme far right british organisation. This is a pattern. Last week he signed declarations to widen the ceremony of the Martin Luther king birthday, which we are celebrating today in the United States. Hes got guys like Pastor Darrell Scott and pastor mark burns on his side. The nfl football playerjim brown said he would be the quarterback of urban renewal in the United States. He campaigned in the urban areas and said give me a chance. And so what has happened now, which no one wants to report about, is that African American unemployment in the United States is at a 35 year low. When African Americans like the former chief of the Republican National committee, Michael Steele, say, quote, trump has captured the racist underbelly of American Life and given voice to it. Does that not give you pause . Well, again. There is a question on the table about his style. There is a 40 60 of the American People, Michael Steele could be one of them, doesnt like his style. Now weve got to talk about substance and you have to look at the substance, as you said, actions over words. The guy does not act as a racist. The policies that he has put in place are not racist. As i said, African American unemployment is at a 35 year low. He is doing something right in that community. So, listen. You dont like his style . Most people, the American Media dont like his style and i understand that but the style he has got him to the american presidency. I could be in the oval office with him, i was only there 11 days but they were pretty eventful, for me. I can tell you that you could talk to him about his tweeting and he would have a joke about it, asking, did it sound president ial . Im an upfront guy, i am a new yorker like him and i said no, but he said, if it sounded president ial, iwould not be the president. You have introduced the melodrama that came with your hiring and pretty rapid firing as communications. It was like a telenovella it had a soap opera feel to it. You can look back on it. It seems that what happened with you in body is everything that Michael Wolff talks about in the book, fire and fury. It is about a white house that was utterly dysfunctional, chaotic and failing in its basic tasks of governance. First of all, thats a totally ridiculous book. I would say that there was truth in it but why would he let truth get in the wake of a good story . He would regard you as probably the most preposterous hiring in the west wing . I know what he wrote about me, god bless him. The truth was i was in the west wing and he wasnt. This guy is a terrible journalist. I give him credit that he wrote a salacious and fictionalised book that he characterised as nonfiction. And he got himself to the top of the bestseller list. He made himself some money. Let me tell you what he did. He hurt you, stephen. He hurt me . Yes, because you are a credible journalist and he is in your community. You went down in flames having come into the office and indeed, you told a bbc colleague of mine that you were sick of the backstabbing. You said, where i come from, i am a front stabber and implying that you would be straight, you would not indulge in the leaks, you saw those coming from Reince Priebus and steve bannon, all of those around you. Yet within days you are making a late night phone call to a new yorker reporter, you were saying the most extraordinary things about your colleagues in the white house. You think i wouldnt say those things to those people directly . Hold on a second. I said every single thing that i said to that reporter to Reince Priebus and steve bannon directly. I went right after those guys. As you told the new yorker, i cannot use the phrase but it involves a contortion and a sex act. I used the words but they were off the record. Exactly, you were backstabbing off the record. I was front stabbing, you think i didnt tell those guys to their face is how i felt . You were the director of communications, you were meant to be putting a new and efficient face on the white house. The president hired me to help him to remove several of the biggest leakers from inside of the administration. Lets go back to that time. You see we have the benefit of time. You say we. The warfare taking place in the months of april, may, june, mid july, they were ridiculous. It was unfair to the president. They were leaking every bit of information. The guy couldnt have a private phone conversation without it being late. You are trying to accuse me of doing something behind their back. I didnt do anything behind their back. I have met with them at 9 30am in the chief of staffs office and told them exactly how i felt. And what happened, the chief of staff, Reince Priebus, got fired. Dont accuse me of backstabbing when i hit them in the face and told them exactly how i feel. You were involved in the firing of Reince Priebus and he was replaced by generaljohn kelly. His number one priority when he walked into the west wing was to fire you. Absolutely right. What a humiliating episode of your life. In some ways but understanding in others. Im an American Business person, not a politician. I went in, the president gave me a job, i handled it how a ceo and entrepreneur would. I didnt handle it as a deft political operative. The president told me to take control of the leakers. General kelly is more of a military person and i am an entrepreneur. It wasnt going to work. He fired me quickly. I give him a lot of credit. You say, the dysfunctionality. This is what is interesting about you. You call it humiliating, i call it a reality based decision that someone made as they try to reorganise staff and i took it likea man. People around the president , in the administration, the secretary of state, finance secretary, former senior staffers, they all say that this guy is fundamentally not suited or fit to be president. You are sourcing that outside of the Michael Wolff book . Yes. I know each of those people individually, i dont believe they have said that about the president. Maybe they have but i do not believe it. Colloquial orjoking but what happens now, there is an open mike and a hot mike everywhere in our society. Every syllable is measured and every syllable becomes tattooed ink in yourforum. I do think it is a bit ridiculous that we are doing back to each other at this point in our civilisation. In all honesty, now that you are away from the white house, does the president have the intellect and character, and the temperament, to be commander in chief and president of the United States. He obviously does. Obviously . Looking at the economic and National Security and you picked the responsibilities that the president has. There is a vital point about the state of the economy. What about the National Security situation . The North Koreans are negotiating with the south koreans. For 25 years, we let that go. The former administration called the strategic patience, the president of the United States said no more. He has the bomb, he has the capabilities to launch a large Ballistic Missile into the United States. When president trump. Tweets out. Saying that my Nuclear Button is bigger than yours and it works, he refers to the leader of north korea as little rocket man, you are telling me this is part of a well thought out strategy . Let me put your viewers at ease and the Global Community. When he is doing that, somebody like don junior or myself, we look at that and we laugh. We get the joke embedded inside of that and get the sarcasm laced inside of it. We do not micro analyse it like liberaljournalists. When he says it is a bigger button than the others, it is part of his personality. You might not like it but he is 71 years old and he believes, and i also believe, that he uses twitter to jump over Mainstream Media, to directly message the people who voted for him. He will continue to do that. You use that phrase about the Mainstream Media, its fair to say that donald trump continues to fight a war against what he routinely calls the fake news media. As director of communications for all of 11 days but if you were still in the job, would you say to donald trump, mr president , it isnt wise to dismiss the so called Mainstream Media as nothing more than peddlers of fake news . Lets offer a balanced perspective, in the first year of his presidency, about 73 74 of the Mainstream Media is negatively biased towards the president. That is an objective standard, not me saying it. It creates some soreness inside of the administration but still, despite that, if i was there and in the time that i was there i thought it was absolutely a bad strategy to declare war on the media. Steve bannon declared war on the media. He made that statement earlier on and said that they were an opposition party. Day after day, week after week. He describes the media as the fake news media. I do think that unfortunately, until you are a victim of fake news, you do not really totally understand it. You seem to suggest that Donald Trumps strategy right now isnt working for him and it is a mistake . I suggested inside and outside of the white house that the president does not need to declare war on the media. I was only there 11 days but one of the first things i did was turned the camera is back on the lights on in the press room. The way the system is setup, we have a Fourth Estate known as the American Media, the first moment of the United States, the freedom of speech, to hand check people in power. The president is media savvy. You should take a step back from that, and say, i can have an adversarial relationship with the media without war declaration. What i am worried about is good news for the president , he had roughly the same Approval Rating is barack obama at the end of the year. You can dispute the polling but, let me finish, i will make the point even better than you would make it. This is what i worry about. Barack obama lost 63 seats in the 2010 mid term congressional elections. Some of that as a supporter of the president , someone who is a lifelong republican, i would make the case that we had to reinvigorate the party and switch strategies right now, because of his popularity and if it does not improve going into those elections, they will be tough elections. You seem to say if the republicans do not find a strategy of distancing themselves from mr trump, they will be in trouble . I think the opposite, the candidates who have embraced him have done better. Those distancing themselves have done worse. You have to Start Connecting now with the American People and what i am calling the dashboard of success for the Trump Administration and the republicans in congress. If you do not do that, history is up against you. If you look at ronald reagan, or barack obama, or george w bush, i will use an obama term, they were all shall act in the mid term elections. You said that you were a media circuit when you needed to be and would be more involved but in every election capability then from inside of the administration. Why are you suggesting that with your record, and donald trump with his record, could seriously expect to be re elected . It would be a landslide real action. The way that the american political system works, it is nearly impossible to defeat a sitting president unless you have a calamitous situation like a depression or a historic rise. You are standing with the American Public in the middle of historic lows i said is roughly the same Approval Rating that barack obama had. He may not even completely first term. We live in the same universe, thats why i want him to fight back and when he wins we will pop champagne together. He will win the re election because he has the right policies for the American People and, by the way, before the cameras were rolling we were talking about governor romney, who i supported. He was a great candidate for president but almost impossible to be an incumbent president in a Rising Economic situation. You can go back to 1880 and it doesnt happen. You are an extraordinary promoter of the trump cause but i will end with this quote. I am talking facts with you. This is a republican, senatorjeff flake, he has split with donald trump, he thinks that trump is very bad for america. He knows that he will not be renominated. He cannot get re elected. Because he has basically killed his own career by making a stand, he said that there are times when we must risk our careers in favour of principle, and when the next generation asks us, why did you do something . And he means, do something about trump, why did you speak up . What are you going to say . That i enabled this guy . Again, you dont like his style. The senator does not like his style, i grew up with people like him, i get the difference between the brashness and style and capability and action. I predict that over the next three years, the capability and process and the action will overwhelm people. He is going to switzerland next week, he is embracing the Global Community and is at the intersection of globalism where he wants peace and prosperity for the world. He has an America First strategy for workers. You dont like his style, i get that. Or his tweeting, i get that. Senator flake does not like it but lets measure him on substance and when he wins real action, you will invite me back. We can have and i told you so moment, like everyone had when he they said he would not win in the first place. Come what may, we will invite you back. Anthony scaramucci, we will invite you back. Im talking fact promotion, not trump promotion. Lets make that clear. Hi there. The weather looks set to cause a few problems for commuters first thing thursday morning, thanks to this rapidly deepening area of low pressure. Now, the isobars really squeeze together across eastern counties of england. Thats where the winds are going to be at their strongest, particular across parts of east anglia, maybe the south east. Now, coastal areas could get wind gusts potentially up to 75 mph. Not far off that from inland areas, so we could well bring down one or two trees, with the winds that strong. Power cuts a possibility, transport disruption a possibility, as well, due to that windy weather. Whereas, across the far north of england, southern areas of scotland, its snow thats going to be causing problems. With another 5 10 centimetres of fresh snow around, we could well have some disruption across some of those higher level routes first thing in the morning, as well. So its one of those days where you might want to leave a little bit of extra time for your commute. Across scotland, icy conditions first thing in the morning. Plenty of snow showers working in across western areas, and weve got a number of snow showers, as well, piling their way in across northern ireland, across the high ground, the pennines, the peak district, as well, of northern england. Very strong winds, remember, across parts of east anglia and south east england. Even towards the south coast, winds will be very gusty for a time, and there will be a few showers working into southern parts of wales and across south west england. So, as i say, it is going to be one of those mornings. Whether its due to the snow locally, or those strong winds, either way, we could see one or two problems out and about. Now, through the rest of the day, the weather becomes a little bit more straightforward as those fierce winds work across the netherlands. And by the way, that could bring disruption at schiphol airport, for example. If youre flying there, check before travelling. Through the rest of the day, it stays quite windy. Well have a number of wintry showers across the north and west, with temperatures again struggling across northern areas. Feeling cold here, but even colder when you factor in the strength of the wind. Now, as we go through thursday evening and overnight, those snow showers, if anything, could get a bit heavier again across parts of scotland and northern ireland, with further significant accumulations of snow building up. Elsewhere, as temperatures take a dive, again ice could be a problem as we head on into the first part of friday morning. And friday, a similar kind of look to the weather, to be honest. Its a day of fairly brisk winds, plenty of wintry showers across the north west of the uk. Yes, there will be some sunshine, but even across parts of england, we could see one or two wintry showers pushing in from time to time. Now, the weekend looks like this a ridge of high pressure, followed by this atlantic weather front. Thats your weather. This is the briefing. 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