Interview in around 15 minutes time. And, in new york, a man is in Police Custody after a terror attack killed eight people and injured about a dozen others. This was an act of terror. And a particularly cowardly act of terror aimed at innocent civilians, aimed at people going about their lives, with no idea what was about to hit them. Well bring you the story throughout the programme. Hello, welcome to the programme. Were live until iiam. Plenty to come from this audience throughout the programme. And wherever you are in the uk, you can get in touch too with your experience of Sexual Harassment at work, and how you think it can be dealt with. Do get in touch use the hashtag victoria live. And if you text, you will be charged at the Standard Network rate. You can message you can message me on you can message me on facebook and send an e mail as well. Our top story today. At least eight people have been killed and ii seriously hurt in new york city, in what officials have described as a terror attack. Eyewitnesses saw a white pick up Truck Driving at speed down a cycle path in Lower Manhattan, before it hit a number cyclists and pedestrians. The vehicle, continued for 20 blocks before it smashed into a school bus. A 29 year old man was shot by police before being arrested and taken to hospital. Our new york reporter, nada tawfik, has more. This was the scene of the deadliest attack on new york since 9 11. Cyclists enjoying a beautiful autumn day, struck down by a white pick up truck travelling at high speed, leaving bodies and bicycles scattered in its wake. The drivers journey ends only when he smashes into a school bus and passers by had to call for help for some of the injured. He can be seen here leaving the vehicle and brandishing a paintball ball and pellet gun before being shot by police. Eyewitnesses describe the panicked moments when they realise something was terribly wrong. He was running around like with a gun and so police came out and then people called the cops and so they were coming in and the guy fired a couple of shots before and then there was like a shoot out scene like the police and the guy and thats when they started to close down everything and we had to go. He was screaming in the street. He looked frustrated, panicked and confused. From there, a whole bunch of customers started running past me, a whole bunch of people came running past my way yelling, hes got a gun. Hes got a gun. The full force of new yorks Emergency Responders swarmed the area. Announcement be advised, we have multiple people on the ground. There is multiple people on the ground. We need buses. Authorities believe this was an act of terror aimed at innocent civilians. They say a note in the suspects vehicle referenced the so called islamic state. Its a very painful day in our city. A horrible tragedy on westside. Let me be clear that based on the information that we have at this moment this was an act of terror and a particularly cowardly act of terror. The suspect has been identified as 29 year old Sayfullo Saipov who came to the United States in 2010. Hes said to have travelled to the east coast from florida and to have worked for the company uber as a driver. President trump has been briefed and in a series of tweets, he promised to crackdown further on those entering the country. Every day thousands of new yorkers make their way down this bike path on their way to work and school and just blocks from the site of the world trade center, this attack in Lower Manhattan is a stark reminder that the city remains a target. This attack happened on one of the most festive days in the big apple, just as children prepare to go trick or treating and new yorkers carried on with that tradition as normal with the annual halloween parade in a show of defiance and resilience. We will bring you more from man then later in the programme. Rachel is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the days news. The Prime Minister has referred the first secretary of state, damian green, to the countrys most senior civil servant, after he was accused of making sexual advances towards a female conservative activist. The Prime Ministers deputy has strongly denied the allegation made by the writer, kate maltby, saying it was deeply hurtful. The complaint is the latest in a string of sexual allegations concerning westminster. This programme has exclusively been told of another Sexual Harassment claim against the actor kevin spacey. John not his real name claims that he rebutted sexual advances from mr spacey after meeting him at a Summer Theatre School when he was 17 in the 1980s. Earlier this week, spacey apologised after being accused of making a sexual advance towards child actor anthony rapp, who was 14. We have approached Kevin Spaceys representatives for a comment, but have not yet received a response. Labour will try to force the government to disclose the likely impact of brexit on different sectors of the economy. The government has confirmed that 58 reports looking at different sectors of the economy have been prepared. But it is resisting calls to publish them, saying to do so would undermine the uks negotiating position in brexit talks. A government commissioned report will be published today, which aims to identify what lessons can be learnt from the experiences of families of the Hillsborough Disaster. It will include the conduct of past Police Investigations and look at the families engagement with public authorities over the last 28 years. Written by the former bishop of liverpool, james jones, it written by the former bishop of liverpool, jamesjones, it is intend to help the authorities respond to future disasters. The restored Hastings Pier in sussex, which was devastated by fire seven years ago, has won britains most prestigious architecture award, the stirling prize. The judges said it was a phoenix risen from the ashes. The new structure uses timber reclaimed from the original Victorian Pier and scorched wood cladding on its visitors centre. Now, if youre a fan of the Great British bake off but havent yet seen the final, you might want to look away for a minute. Last night saw the three finalists do battle with a fiendishly complicated set of tasks before sophie faldo, a former army officer, emerged as the winner. It was meant to be one of televisions most closely guarded secrets, but newjudge prue leith, mistakenly tweeted the result earlier in the day after mixing up her times zones while travelling. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news more at 9. 30am. Thank you very much. In the next few minutes we are going to talk to a group of people that we have brought together from all walks of life, from the nhs, the education sector, the entertainment world, from politics, to talk about one of the big issues that is making the headlines on a daily basis, Sexual Harassment and in particular at work and we appreciate there is a huge spectrum when it comes to Sexual Harassment from hands on a knee, at one end, to being discouraged from reporting a rape at the other end. Were going to talk about peoples individual experiences. Were going to talk about what should be done and were going to talk about whether some feel there is now a witch hunt against certain sectors. Your own experiences witch hunt against certain sectors. Youi own experiences are witch hunt against certain sectors. Your own experiences are welcome. As you know on this programme, wherever you know on this programme, wherever you are in the country, send us your own thoughts and your own pertinent experiences and we will feed them in through the conversation through this mornings programme. Lets get some sport now with holly and chelsea have become the first english side to lose a Champions League match this season manager Antonio Conte isnt too happy is he . They are not happy. It was more of a fright night for chelsea and probably not the home coming that Antonio Conte envisaged last night, losing 3 0 to roma in what can only be described as a shambolic defensive performance. They went behind in less than a0 seconds after this stunning strike. After that, victoria, it just went from this stunning strike. After that, victoria, itjust went from bad to worse. Afterwards co nte victoria, itjust went from bad to worse. Afterwards conte had strong words for his players. He said they need to find the hunger from last season and dig deep and hejust seemed to be at a loss as to what went wrong particularly in the second half which was particularly poorfor second half which was particularly poor for chelsea in what was their worst defeat in more than a year. Here is what the manager had to say afterwards. There is a great disappointment because it was really bad. Really bad for a team like us. I know last season we showed a great hunger, a great will to do something of importance. There was a better result for manchester united. They re there was a better result for manchester united. Theyre edging closer to remaining in the last 16 with their win last night. 2 i closer to remaining in the last 16 with their win last night. 2 1 at 0ld with their win last night. 2 1 at old trafford against benfica. Celtic, it is over for them. They lost 2 1 to bayern munich, but more to come this evening. Tottenham and liverpool both in action later on. We were talking on the programme about the parliamentary hearing into classification in pa ralympic about the parliamentary hearing into classification in paralympic sport and baroness Tanni Grey Thompson had some strong words . Thats right. She told the Parliamentary Committee that athletes were told they would be kicked off teams and stripped of funding this they complained about this ongoing classification issue and she is calling for an independent review into this system after saying the culture was somewhere between control and bullying and those are pretty harsh words. Lets hear from bullying and those are pretty harsh words. Lets hearfrom her. Bullying and those are pretty harsh words. Lets hear from her. Great britain should be the Gold Standard of integrity and independence and we should have an open discussion about im and about misclassification, but actually, where we are now, in the paralympic movement, its medals, its money, its sponsorship and its money, its sponsorship and its media coverage, its, as liz was talking about doping in olympic sport, it would be the same reason. So you think it is the equivalent . Not quite, but there are similarities in terms of what it can give you. Harsh words. Yesterday, we also heard from mike ale breen. He is the father of the two time World Champion olivia braovenlt he said he didnt hold back, athletes were actually frightened and they had been intame dated over many years and suggested that sophie, a gold medallist will been allowed to allowed to compete in the wrong category. Her management responded and rejected the claims and she said she would welcome the opportunity to give evidence to the committee at any point. But i think victoria, this is an issue thats going to continue. Certainly, overthe next week, maybe perhaps even months, as theissue week, maybe perhaps even months, as the issue of classification in para disability sport continues. Thank you, holly. This morning, Sexual Harassment in hollywood, in politics, in banks, in the armed forces, in hospitals, in offices, in restaurants, in journalism, in your place of work. No walk of life is unaffected by it and this morning, werejoined by a group of men and women who are here to talk about its impact and ultimately how it can be stopped. Pretty much everyone here in the audience say they have been sexually harassed at work. We will discuss good practise to stop it happen. Im going to start with becca. Thank you very much for talking to us today. Tell us what happened to you when you used to work as a waitress . I was working as a waitress and bartender. It was zero hours contractjob, minimum wage and over a period of months i was kind of sexually harassed by one of my managers. What is that like . Calling me sexually derogatory name, slapping my bum. It culminated at one point where he took me into a private room where the managers did theiradmin private room where the managers did their admin work private room where the managers did theiradmin work and private room where the managers did their admin work and said, this is their admin work and said, this is the room where we have sex with our employees. Wow. And the whole thing, the whole kind of experience had this tone of like, its a joke until its not. It was done in this kind of jovial way. I, until its not. It was done in this kind ofjovial way. I, after that, incident in that room, i threatened to report him for Sexual Harassment and it was after this point that he turned really sour with me and then was kind of like nit picking everything i did wrong and fired me for something which i dont think my collea g u es for something which i dont think my colleagues would have been fired for. And what do you think about what happened to you . And what do you think about what happened to you . I mean i think it was wrong. I was quite young at the time as well. I was 18, i9 was wrong. I was quite young at the time as well. I was 18, 19 years old andi time as well. I was 18, 19 years old and i was really unsure about what steps i could take. I made that threat of im going to report you, but i didnt actually know. No, you knew it was Sexual Harassment . knew it was Sexual Harassment and i knew it was Sexual Harassment and i knew that the mechanism for reporting this existed, but i didnt know how. I wasnt part of a union. I was talking to co workers about it, but it was seen as something that was normal, like thats just him. Thats how he is. Wow. And i guess, i think like, him. Thats how he is. Wow. And i guess, ithink like, looking back on the experience now, i think, as you said earlier, that itsjust something which is so horrifically mundane and common that you find it in all kinds of industries and as much it was an upsetting experience, particularly then kind of being hounded and fired as a result of trying to stand up for myself, i do think it is something which is so incredibly upsettingly common. And grim. You said at the beginning of our problem that over your career as a tv childrens presenter and actress you have been harassed at least 20 times . At least 20 times, yes. Different degrees. As a performer you accept it. You find a way of coping it. Iwould you accept it. You find a way of coping it. I would find you accept it. You find a way of coping it. Iwould find humour you accept it. You find a way of coping it. I would find humour in it. Idid coping it. I would find humour in it. I did a blog last year about one incident where i made a comedy tale, even though the producer lost his trousers in the hotel room, somehow he wanted me to cover him in water. I kind of made light of it. Some of the incidents, one of one in particular was quite scary. A well known and powerful tv personality said he would help me. With your career . Yes. He would help me tojump with your career . Yes. He would help me to jump from kids tv to presenting, which was what i wanted to do. I said, great. Presenting, which was what i wanted to do. Isaid, great. He presenting, which was what i wanted to do. I said, great. He said, presenting, which was what i wanted to do. Isaid, great. He said, lets meet up. He said, in a hotel. I said, no thank you, ive already seen somebody lose their trousers in a hotel. He said, how dare you suggest that i would do that then i thought, how dare i indeed . Im really naughty to presume that somebody. To presume that somebody would want to make sexual advances to me. Im fourth at 11, i look like a chipmunk, who might . He eventually persuaded me to meet him in a hotel. Isaidi persuaded me to meet him in a hotel. I said i wanted to talk in the four. He said, people are looking at us, lets go to the room. I had a partner the time. Not my husband now, somebody else. I said, partner the time. Not my husband now, somebody else. Isaid, i partner the time. Not my husband now, somebody else. I said, i dont wa nt now, somebody else. I said, i dont want any funny business. Ill sit on a chair, i dont want you near me. And if we talk about anything else other than my career, im leaving. Went in the room, we chatted, he seemed nice, he was helpful. I was like, oh my goodness, this is perhaps the first time. I have been on 50 dinner date with people and it has never culminated in a job. And i thought, this person is genuine. I said, i job. And i thought, this person is genuine. Isaid, i have to job. And i thought, this person is genuine. I said, i have to go. Job. And i thought, this person is genuine. Isaid, i have to go. Thank you so much. Its been lovely to meet you. Stood up. He said to me, you are meet you. Stood up. He said to me, you a re really meet you. Stood up. He said to me, you are really small. I was like, i know, im fourth at 11. He said, how much do you wait . He said, six double 11. He didnt believe me. With that he picked me up. Lots of people take me up because im small. That is rather dispiriting. Lots of people do. He picked me up. I thought, here we go. He was very tall. Not only did he pick me up he rammed me into the wall and kissed me very passionately. Now, i am working class and i was a gymnast. Im feisty. I pushed him off me and jumped down. I said, im feisty. I pushed him off me and jumped down. Isaid, if im feisty. I pushed him off me and jumped down. I said, if you touch me againi jumped down. I said, if you touch me again i will scream and scream and scream. He literally just laughed again i will scream and scream and scream. He literallyjust laughed in my face and said, something has grown between ice us. I left. They need textured me and i said, i dont want to meet you again, thank you. I got a barrage of abuse. He was never going to help me. But i do think sometimes, would i have had a better career if i had been not such a square girl in the bedroom . Im sure i wouldnt. But i think in show business you cant help but think that. That is notjust the girls, it is men as well. As a performer you are groomed to expect that. That is orderly dispiriting. Aaron, you come from the modelling world. You havent experienced a share. from the modelling world. You havent experienced a share. I was with a casting director. He invited me to with a casting director. He invited metoa with a casting director. He invited me to a location for a pirate shoot. Pilot should. He didnt tell me it was his house. I ended up going to his house. He put all this glue oii me. To his house. He put all this glue on me. Took my tough off. Top. He said, it looks like his semen. At that was a bit weird. But im a strong character. It doesnt bother me much. I saw that went to get a shower at his. I came out after and he said, there was a camera in there. You can touch yourself if you want. You can go back in there and touch yourself. I was like, no. At events and stuff, ive had my bohm slapped. Im a big man. I could easily just. Slapped. Im a big man. I could easilyjust. But im not going to do that. Because you cant do that. It happens quite often. Obviously iiow it happens quite often. Obviously now he has realised. Its mainly when hes drunk. He thinks because i ama when hes drunk. He thinks because i am a modeland when hes drunk. He thinks because i am a model and he when hes drunk. He thinks because i am a modeland he is a when hes drunk. He thinks because i am a model and he is a casting director. Certainjobs i feel i cant get because of that. Obviously he doesnt want me to do that. I wont do that. Certain jobs he doesnt want me to do that. I wont do that. Certainjobs i havent got because of that. Its kind of a shame but i will always do the right thing. Thank you. Rebecca, good morning. Tell me about your experience in the raf . When i was 20 i was attached detached to the Falkland Islands as an Aerospace Systems operator. I was a senior aircraft woman at the time. As part of the detachment i had to go to a mountainside where i was the only woman among 28 mixed servicemen. I flew in by helicopter. There were 28 quys flew in by helicopter. There were 28 guys mooning me in on the helipad. And it kind of went downhill from there. That kind of set the tone. The first night i was subjected to an initiation ceremony. My camera was on the bar at the time and somebody took photographs. When i came home from the detachment and printed my photographs, i actually have those pictures. Can i ask what they showed . The guys were naked wearing nothing but rubber gloves on their genitals. I was fully closed. This is kind of a regular thing that i had heard about. And in advance of the detachment i had kind of expressed my resistance to going up there. I think that we should be able to, whatever gender you are, you should be able to work wherever. But i didnt feel confident that there were structures in place to enable that to happen. I felt very vulnerable. I made a complaint to an officer. About what . About my vulnerability, about the initiation ceremony, but the fact that every single night there were guys knocking on the door trying to come into my bedroom. Just continual harassment. I knew there was something wrong but i wasnt able to articulate it. And they flew the officer to the mountain site and he had a meeting with me in my bedroom. And he silenced me by offering me a flight and he silenced me by offering me a flight on a tornado. My gosh. Yeah. How did you react . I took the flight. How did you react . I took the flight. And to be kind to my younger self, its taken me 15 years to talk about this. I think everyone that is here, well done. It takes a lot to speak about anything that has happened to you, any form of violation. At the time ijust happened to you, any form of violation. At the time i just want to come home. I have a statement from the raf. The raf doesnt tolerate any form of abuse. Appropriate disciplinary action will be taken. There have been significant enhancements to the complaints process in the 15 years since these alleged incidents, including the appointment of the First Independent Service Complaints ombudsman who took office injanuary of last year. The point that rebecca raised, it ta kes a the point that rebecca raised, it takes a lot to speak out about these kind of incidents. Do people agree . Is it hard . If it is, why . I personally think i will never work again after today. I dont work that much any way. You look like a troublemaker. Player, do introduce yourself. Im the director of the institute of ideas. I wanted to put a different impression on this. I could list all of the abuse of things that happened to me. But i actually feel its a real tyranny. I feel as if society has turned into a jeremy kyle show. I actually think its actually hard to argue against the me, two phenomena. And to suggest that we need rather than summoning testimonies, we need a rational call standing back from this issue. I know that when i have said this before, i have been accused of victim blaming, condemning people. Obviously people have terrible stories. But to understand the phenomenon, sometimes getting people to tell their stories is not the best way to approach something politically or as a way of coming up with the right policies. It isa coming up with the right policies. It is a genuine, ironically, there isa it is a genuine, ironically, there is a genuine bullying atmosphere to join in the feeding frenzy. And i get nervous about that. 0k. Sarah champion, hello. Im sarah champion, a Memberof Parliament champion, hello. Im sarah champion, a member of parliament for rotherham. I a member of parliament for rotherham. Lam a member of parliament for rotherham. I am listening to this. I know that sex sells. The country is titillated by this. But listening to these stories, this isnt about sex, this is about power. It is about people in positions of power who can degrade other people. Yes, they do it through sex. But i agree with what you are saying, we need to look at the Bigger Picture and how we get away from a culture where these people can act without any repercussions. Both sj and you were almost apologising for how it is going to affect your career. What do you think about claires specific point about a feeding frenzy, but people being incited to tell their story and that the tracks from having a rational conversation . One of the things im particularly uncomfortable about at the moment with westminster is there seems to be the emphasis that it is the victims responsibility to come forward. It is not. They are the victims. We should be creating a culture, stepping back, change the systems we have in place. Lets try asa systems we have in place. Lets try as a country to grow up a bid and stopping obsessed with what is in peoples pants and what to do with it. And lets look at duty of care in institutions. I amanda whelan, the assistant odis of spike. What worries me about this, and of spike. What worries me about this, and i share the concerns claire has, with the greatest respect to people and their experiences, what we are in danger of in creating a feeding frenzy, you get a kind of moral authority when you present your anecdotal experiences. This campaign is doing that. We are in danger of denigrating womens power. You say the victims dont need to give their story. Im afraid you do need to give your story, if you are going to make an accusation, because that is howjustice works. Make an accusation, because that is how justice works. Innocent make an accusation, because that is howjustice works. Innocent until prove n howjustice works. Innocent until Proven Guilty. We are in danger of forgetting that. In forgetting that and calling mainly women victims is creating a victim culture and taking away womens power. That really worries me. There are many different forms of abuse. It is quite rare that women want justice in the form of someone going to jail, someone losing theirjob. What they want is a change in the culture and to be recognised. You dont need to name yourself in public to do that. You need a situation where there is an independent body that will listen to you. Ok. What we are talking about here is the difference between Sexual Harassment and Sexual Assault. And sexual violence, which is serious, a crime. And inappropriate behaviour, which whilst it can be extremely negative, it is something for people to work themselves without involvement of criminalisation. On facebook holderness says, let can we be clear that not all unwanted attention is harassment. Dog is confused. A proposition accepted is fine, but a proposition rejected as harassment. That really highlighted. We are in danger of denigrating human interaction. It is not not sensible to say that lots of relationships start with a risk. That is not saying that every woman and man knows when a line has been crossed. When it is Sexual Harassment is more serious. crossed. When it is Sexual Harassment is more serious. I work in the Hospitality Industry. The Hospitality Industry is similar to the Creative Industries in that it has similar conditions, the same level of precariousness, zero hours contracts. I think we really need to focus on and think about the culture that exists and all the mechanisms that actually prevent women from speaking up actually prevent women from speaking up and for when women do speak up, for any grievance to not actually be upheld and i think, you know, i think things like zero hour contracts, things like freelance work, and things like, power, right. So not having any, just being desperate to advance your career, having to. And the precarious nature of some work and some jobs in some sectors . I would like us to have serious political discussions about zero hours contracts have serious political discussions about zero hours contracts and once you gender it and put it into a discussion about sexual harassmed and women as victims, you arent talking about the gig economy, you are talking about women. They are not mutually exclusive. They are a distraction. There are serious issues. In which case if you are a victim in the gig economy it has nothing to do with you being a woman. Jaou work without contracts, work out guaranteed hours, it is majority women. It is an incredibly gender issue. I suppose, it isjust a question, i suppose, my concern is, on the one hand the danger of trivialising serious Sexual Assault ina kind trivialising serious Sexual Assault in a kind of everything is thrown into the same pot. On the other hand, distracting from what are serious power issues relating to jobs and employment conditions. Thirdly, in the midst of this, although people here are consciously not naming and shaming as in the naming, there is a nervousness about a culture in which we are pointing the finger and peoples careers are being destroyed. People are being named and thats nerve wracking and iio named and thats nerve wracking and nojustice. Named and thats nerve wracking and no justice. John mann is one of the few men in this room. Are you nervously awaiting some allegation to be made against you . No. The differentiation between misuse of power and the examples were hearing that have blighted peoples lives. Their career is not gone or their job has not gone as well or far worse, the problem amongst my constituents who i am aware of are mainly women, usually women, who have been sexually assaulted, raped, who havent come forward. Who are severely traumatised by it. It often had disastrous horrific consequences for them and their lives. There is a lot of women out there like that. There is an epidemic going on amongst young women where young men, i think, the boundaries have lessened and young men feel that there is a sense of entitlement and iam. Not there is a sense of entitlement and i am. Notjust young men. There is a particular, there is a particular, there is a change of culture. Im genuinely shocked by the number of young women that i am aware of, who have been raped. Genuinely shocked. And the and havent said anything. They havent spoken to their parents. They havent spoken to the police obviously. They havent done anything in relation to it and people are fearful of doing so. And what do we as a society do about that . And thats why, these, what im hearing isnt trivial cases, an employer, who hits on their employee, let me use a vendac collar term and then pursues and harasses them. Thats not a light issue. And so, you know, i have been banging on about this in parliament for quite some years. We are at the top of the pyramid in terms of what people look at and if mps behave like that then we dont want those people, i dont wa nt we dont want those people, i dont want those people as mp5. We dont want those people, i dont want those people as mps. we dont want those people, i dont want those people as mps. I want to ask you about the story that emerged today involving a writer, and academic called kate maltby writing in the times today about damian green who is a conservative mp and described as the first secretary of state. Thats his job, described as the first secretary of state. Thats hisjob, he is effectively theresa mays right hand, or deputy, if you like. Kate maltby writes, damian green offered me career advice and in the same breath made it clear he was sexually interested. She says he told her his wife was very understanding. Kate maltby said that experience made her angry. Damian green said the claims are untrue and deeply hurtful. Kate maltby says that effectively he touched her knee. Fleetingly, she uses that word fleetingly and then sometime after, sent a suggestive text to her. Is that harassment . It is a fundamental misuse of power. This man is number two in the country. He is deputy Prime Minister. He is a very senior politician and if he wa nts to very senior politician and if he wants to go try and have some ex martial relationship with someone, thats not our business. Well he says. Thats not our business at all, but if he did, and that seems to be what she is suggesting he was doing then thats not our business. However, if thats connected in with careers advice, when he is a person who can assist and give that advice and help and he is, like and give that advice and help and he is, like i would be in that situation, if someone said, how can i become a labour mp . Will you give me advice . I get young woman who come and ask that. I give them advice. If i was to make that kind of proposal to them in any way, thats a fundamental misuse of power. Does anyone disagree on that point about damian green and the differing accounts of what happened . Absolutely. This is bordering on the insane. We have got somebody who sent a text and fleetingly touched someones knee which isnt a matter of, it has got nothing do with his role as an mp. He gave careers advice. So if he was pinning her and said, if you dont do this, you will get fired. That would be a different matter. This is an uncomfortable personal interaction which has been used to get a part of the me two campaign. Im perturbed. It isa the me two campaign. Im perturbed. It is a personal affair. What we are doing here is saying, women cant handle having texts sent to them. I find that more insulting than anything a pervy old bloke would say. You have no idea whatsoever if she can handle. We are in danger of saying every time a woman has an experience like this, she is tainted, it will affect her forever. You are undermining womens ability to be hard necked. It formed most of the feminist movements in the past that women were tough and strong. For her to come forward, there is a lot at stake and it is exactly these stories which show how ingrained this issue is at. Whats at stake . I dont want to talk about kate maltby. To speak out about harassment. Im going to pause you because damian green has been spoken to by reporters. Lets have a listen. Have a watch. Reporter is that downing street investigate you . All the allegations are completely false. Thank you very much. Reporter do you regret your behaviour, mr green . Studio he repeated, all the allegations are completely false. Rebecca, just finish your point. This is exactly there, is so indicative of the problem in society andi indicative of the problem in society and i think as a nation, we need to hold up anybody that speaks out because that is what makes it a safer place for those women who have been raped or. We dont know its true. Thats crucial. Why would somebody in her position start a rumour . Why would anyone do anything . Once we say that you can be accused, based on a rumour, this is not a powerless woman, she has got a column this the times. We are not talking about some kid, she therefore, she points the finger and then im supposed to or were supposed to believe her. Why do we not believe him . He denies it. We have to believe her. Thats nerve wracking, but some people here have told serious horrible stories of Sexual Harassment and one of my concerns of Sexual Harassment and one of my concerns is that then when we kind of getting the glancing hand on the knee question, or the text, that that actually trivialises those serious stories. When people say, you know, knee, crotch, rape, we are going to make those important claims of one individual, abusing another individual which should be dealt with and the book thrown at them turn into and everyone is at it because somebody flirts with you inappropriately. It is very, very dangerous. Damian green denies the allegation. He says they are deeply hurtful. What is Sexual Harassment. It seems to be key to this conversation . It is straightforward actually, have a watch of this. Sexual harassment can be verbal, written or visual contact. It may include a request for a sexual favour. It is unsolicited and unwelcome. Harassment can include sexual comments and jokes. It can also be being forced to look at inappropriate material. Harassment can also be when someone creates a hostile or intimidating environment. Harassment can happen to anyone, and it can be done by anyone. If you are being harassed at work, you should report it. Make sure you put everything in writing. Try to collect as much evidence as you can. Collect evidence by keeping texts, e mails and messages. Raise your concerns with your employer. If you feel like youre not being treated properly, you can Contact Services like citizens advice. There is also information on the bbcs action line website. Search bbc, action line. What did you want to say about it . think a lot of people forget that it happens to guys. Especially in the fashion industry. There is so much of much power in casting directors and designers and they have got so much money, they almost feel like, for my case as well, people will throw money and say, look, if you ta ke throw money and say, look, if you take this money, i will give you thisjob. It take this money, i will give you this job. It happens all the time andi this job. It happens all the time and i know serious stories and i cant say it on tv. It is a serious industry. Very corrupt. Male actors get that a lot. They are not even scared, embarrassed. Yes. Ijust think if we were talking about bullying, we all understand the principle that it is how that person feels and then you go to the evidence to try and justify it one way or the other. Why is that not the same when it is to do with Sexual Harassment . There isnt a sliding scale of, you know, this is really bad Sexual Harassment so we will take this seriously. Its how it makes that individual feel and if you feel indim tated by someone, if you feel indim tated by someone, if you are being made to feel uncomfortable and if it is having Lasting Impact on you, that needs to be taken Lasting Impact on you, that needs to be ta ken seriously. Lasting impact on you, that needs to be taken seriously. Thats sensible, if you are an agency staff member, if you are an agency staff member, if you are an agency staff member, if you are a jobbing actor or a model, where are you meant to be reporting this to . When you know the industry is leaky and you will be back listed. I could be accused of jumping on the me too campaign because of timing. I held this up today. This is the me too sign. Im here without most people in my family or without most of my friends knowing whats happened to me. And i agree with what you have been saying. There needs to be a constructive argument and a change of policy to deal with this. Ive tried that through the proper processes. This is in the nhs. This is in the nhs. I have been a nurse for 30 years. Ive worked with men for 30 years. Ive worked with men for all of my life. Ive, im for 30 years. Ive worked with men forall of my life. Ive, im not a model. I dont get propositioned very often. I have been married for 25 years. And most of the time i have managed to, you know, ninor thing i have managed to deal with. Something different happened to me at work that happened with harassment. Asking me out to a show. Did i want a phone number . Progressed to touching and i, i didnt move. I didnt move. I didnt tell this man not to do that. You froze . Tell this man not to do that. You froze . I froze. I totally tell this man not to do that. You froze . Ifroze. Itotally froze. I could probably stand up when that somebody else and thats happening under my nose to somebody else, i know i would stand up, but for whatever reason i froze and talking about power, i know that that was a green light to that man. I told my manager that i was feeling uncomfortable and it progressed to a Sexual Assault. I have been off work for two years. Im still employed by the nhs. I have been going through an internal investigation process. I have been too unwell to work because of the trauma. I havent really told most people that know me. I am actually banned from talking to my colleagues. I jumped on banned from talking to my colleagues. Ijumped on this because i have tried to raise it through the channels within my organisation. So for me this is something to help what i think needs to happen. I think women should be able to call this out when it happens for it to be dealt with. I have been penalised. My wages were stopped without telling me. I was then apparently overpaid. I wasnt told about that. Debt collectors contacted me. Also of consequences are allsorts of consequences. That could lead to others not wanting to speak out because they will think, is it worth it . Exactly. Having raised it through the official grievance process within my organisation, the only thing i can say is there has been a cover up. There is bent an amendment to my working shifts, and amendment of sickness meetings where the perpetrators name was talked about. There are three versions of some letters. And that was the investigation panels information. There was never going to be an independent investigation into what happened to me, because of the cover up. Happened to me, because of the coverup. I want to pause that. John mann, i know you have to go out ten. I want you to tell us about the four cases you are aware that westminster. I am aware of far more than four. Four have come directly to me. That is an incredible number. What is the nature . Different ends of the spectrum. One is a serious Sexual Assault allegation. Rate . No, but Sexual Assault. One is being groped ina but Sexual Assault. One is being groped in a bar in the parliamentary bar by an mp. Very different levels. Two of them made formal complaints. To the authorities or the police . Pa rt to the authorities or the police . Part of the problem with parliament is it is not clearly the authorities are. 12 the political party, my political party. In both cases these women complained. There was some clear evidence there. And in one case the police investigated but the assault was abroad and the police couldnt prosecute because they didnt have the jurisdiction, which is accurate. We cant prosecute because it is not in this country. In both cases, the parliamentary authorities and the political party, nothing was done. The other two have nothing was done. The other two have not made complaints because i think they feel they wont be believed. They feel, well, ive got over it, it was relatively trivial. But if someone is prepared to manhandled someone is prepared to manhandled someone in a parliamentary bar once, many other times have done it . How many other times have done it . How many other times have done it . How many other people that they done to . That is the problem if you sweep it under the carpet. What is your reaction to labour activist bex bailey telling somebody senior to her in the labour party that she had been raped and was effectively told not to say anything because it may damage her career . It is appalling. I know bex bailey. She is one of the people who has advised me on how to do take. She has become expert at it. She is very brave in speaking out the way she has. It is shocking the advice she was given. It also shows there was no system in place. If there isnt a system in place, where do you go . How will it be dealt with . If there is a system in place, people like me have got some influence. We can challenge that system, we can attempt to do so. If there is no system, where do you go . That is a huge problem. We have told this morning about politics, journalism, they raf, the nhs, the modelling world, the media generally. These claims all started in hollywood with allegations against movie mogul Harvey Weinstein. This week, it spread to the actor, kevin spacey. In an exclusive interview we hear claims today that kevin spacey made another separate sexual advance on a teenage boy in the 1980s. That teenage boy is now in his 50s and has chosen to tell his story publicly to this problem for the first time. He doesnt want to reveal his identity. We are calling him john. Doesnt want to reveal his identity. We are calling himjohn. He doesnt want to reveal his identity. We are calling him john. He says kevin spacey invited him to stay at his apartment and repeatedly asked him to get into bed with him. John was 17 at the time. He declined. He slept on the sofa and he woke to find kevin spacey lying on top of him wearing only his underwear. Mr spacey was 26 at the time. Earlier this week kevin spacey apologised after making a sexual advance towards then ia year old actor. John still works in the Entertainment Industry. He is speaking out now to warn about predatory behaviour. We havent been able to verify everything he told us. Kevin spacey has not responded to our request for a comment. He told us how he met kevin spacey at a Theatre School before mr spacey invited him to his home. I went down with a friend who stayed with a relative and i stayed with kevin. He took me around new york. We went out to dinner. I met a neighbour of his. We were in his apartment and he showed me a great deal of the work that he had done and was about to do. He was about to go into rehearsals for a long days journey into night, referenced in Anthony Rapps account. It was with jack lemmon. It was his first really big broadway role not as an understudy. It was a big dealfor him. Iwas understudy. It was a big dealfor him. I was equally impressed. And then in the evening he became affectionate in a way that i certainly wasnt interested in. What does that mean, affectionate . Hand on my thigh, around my shoulder, sitting on the couch. Rubbing my arm. Trying to. Im 17 at the time. Im not ia. Ithink there arm. Trying to. Im 17 at the time. Im not ia. I think there is a difference. I get it. But i am vulnerable and there was no direct explanation of what was going on. It came time to go to bed. He indicated that one side of the bed would be mine, the other side of the bed would be his. I thanked mine, the other side of the bed would be his. Ithanked him but mine, the other side of the bed would be his. I thanked him but told himi would be his. I thanked him but told him i would rather sleep on the couch. He said, no, thats ridiculous. I said, couch. He said, no, thats ridiculous. Isaid, no, ithink couch. He said, no, thats ridiculous. I said, no, i think you but i am going to stay on the couch. He got a little testy. He said he didnt have any extra pillows. I said, im fine, ill sleep on the case. It was an icy good night and i slept on the couch with my clothes on. How did you feel about how the evening attended . on. How did you feel about how the evening attended . I thought i would be kicked out in the morning, if not before. He didnt threaten as much but it felt as if it wasnt going well at all and i misunderstood what was going on. I was up most of the night. As we went to sleep, he was sobbing from his bed. I knew enough to know that that was likely meant to know that that was likely meant to get me to respond in some way, which i didnt. Ijust tried to make it through the evening. In the morning i woke up and his head was on my stomach and his arms were wrapped around my torso very affectionately, i would suppose. It certainly wasnt aggressive but it was affectionate and not something i was affectionate and not something i was comfortable with as a heterosexual male. But it wasnt something i was going tojump out the window over. You woke up and he was on top of you . His head was on my abdomen, yes. He was in his underwear. I was fully clothed. And i supposed it was some sort of new york theatre actor good morning, but it also made me feel very uncomfortable. He jumped up it also made me feel very uncomfortable. Hejumped up said, lets going get breakfast. We didnt speak of the night before at all. We then went out and had a day in new york city as what i would call friends. And as a 17 year old who didnt really like to talk about feelings, it felt like everything was going to be fine. Can i ask, when you woke up did you think that he had, perhaps when you were sleeping, had touched you in any way or anything sexual that happened . No. No, ididnt or anything sexual that happened . No. No, i didnt think that at all. Ijust no. No, i didnt think that at all. I just thought this is a very strange way to wake up. What i had felt was that i was being manipulated. And that i was in over my head. This was an adult and i was not yet an adult. Thats how it felt. We went on to have a day in new york. It was heady for a young actor. It was easy to be distracted. We met a number of people who were well known celebrities, throughout the day, who he had known or whose paths have crossed with his. We went toa paths have crossed with his. We went to a museum, we had lunch, we had dinner, a crazy restaurant filled with celebrities. And then back to his house and more conversation about him and his impending rehearsal period. And more touching and affectionate hugging and telling me he thought he had been misunderstood when we met that summer. At the summer stock theatre. And at this point i burst into tears because i just couldnt articulate any more what was happening to me or my response was, or how i felt about this situation. I was scared. I would say to his credit, he stopped. From that point he backed off. We went to steep the next morning. He made sure i got to the bus map station. Perhaps he felt he was in over his head, i dont know. We didnt speak again. Later in life, i work in the Entertainment Industry now, seeing him rise to fame shortly after that time was weird. To say the least. I neverfelt after that time was weird. To say the least. I never felt i after that time was weird. To say the least. I neverfelt i had after that time was weird. To say the least. I never felt i had a claim to anything or even, you know, i needed to move on. I didnt care necessarily to have this experience we are having right now of speaking other publicly about it. But again, to hear that anthony rapp had his experience and i know there are others rule out that there is, i feel like its important to have some good come of it and certainly to let people know who work in our industry, whether theyre young people, women or vulnerable, that they should be vigilant and alert and speak out. And that any culture of intimidation and needs to be fought against. And for those of us like myself who have some positions of responsibility now and authority in the industry, we have an obligation to keep an imac wright for those who are more vulnerable than we may be, and to make sure those people are taken care of. To keep on eye out. Those people should have a special studies in the industry because of their vulnerability. You ask what i feel now about this incident. You know, ifi now about this incident. You know, if i give kevin spacey the benefit of the dead, he was very stupid. With me. The benefit of the doubt. And obviously with anthony rapp. He was not drunk during this, by the way. I knew of his reply had been that he was drunk during the interview with anthony rapp. We had we can together and there was no alcohol involved. I was not offered alcohol, drugs or anything like that. We were all sober. So with me he was either very stupid or he was predatory. Or maybe a bowl. Whatever the case may be i was uncomfortable at best. Traumatised at worst. Emotionally. I have moved on from it. I dont have any regrets. I wish it. I dont have any regrets. I wish it hadnt happened. And i hope that other people, if they have had this experience come forward if no other reason than to make more aware of a very permissive Entertainment Industry. Did it ever occur to you then to speak out to somebody in authority, an adult, a parent . No. Ididnt i didnt tell my parents. I imagine my sister is learning about this for the first time. It has been relegated to, as i have become an adult, to the territory of a creepy anecdote, perhaps i felt in the 80s that this is what the gay culture was allowable and was permissible and maybe it was my fault or i brought it on myself or i was somehow giving off a vibe that i was interested in kevin in that way. So, you know, these are i think probably common feelings that come when one is victimised. Do you have a view as to what you would like to see happen to what you would like to see happen to kevin spacey . No. I mean, look, i dont know what his experience has been with other people. So, in terms of my experience, i think for him to know that i havent forgotten and that it was very confusing to me is probably enough. I dont know him andi probably enough. I dont know him and i dont know what his life is like. I dont know anybody who now knows him. But i certainly would hope that he stops or has stopped this type of behaviour. You want to say something. you want to say something. I query his motives for bringing it up. Obviously, i know nothing about it. He said he felt empowered because anthony rapid had spoken out, but he didnt want to diminish the numbers of women coming out to speak out. He hasnt told us lot, but he told friends and therapists. Sure. It does seem opportunistic on the surface to me. What would you say . I am not sure about this particular algarks but i have read a lot into the women that have come forward about Harvey Weinstein and a lot of them have waited a long time, but when you hear their stories, they are really horrendous stories and if anyone knows about people who have gone through a rape, whether you wa nt gone through a rape, whether you want to call them victims or whatever, its not easy. You know, to put that information forward, intimate sexual details is not something you want to share with anyone, not your best friend or mother or therapist, or anyone, not your best friend or mother ortherapist, oryour anyone, not your best friend or mother or therapist, or your worst enemy. Its very difficult. So when you see examples of people speaking out, maybe you think, ok, i have got an opportunity, but not in a way to profit. What is this guy going to get . Not money for it. We have the idea of footballers, women that had sexual relationships with footballers in the past and going to the daily mail in the past and they are bimbos and they are doing it for the money. The examples for women that speak out, they are ridiculed, there is an actress in italy who had a long relationship with Harvey Weinstein, a very difficult relationship. She had to leave her country because reporters are saying, you gave it away and then you complain. You pretend afterwards. Well, when you go into the details, a lot of these women did speak out at the time. A lot of these women went to the police and we nt these women went to the police and went to their senior authorities in the Weinstein Company and went to Harvey Weinsteins brother, bob, they told other directors, famous directors who were working closely, they told friends and family, Gwyneth Paltrow went and told brad pitt and told her parents and people did speak out, but Harvey Weinstein managed to silence them and paid them off and made them sign ndas and had. Briefly react to that. He controlled the press as well. had. Briefly react to that. He controlled the press as well. I know a tiny little bit about weinstein having looked it up last night. It is, i would say it is a different situation. The weinstein situation is horrendous and kevin spacey occasionally appears to make passes at people and im sorry. There should be zero tolerance. It is not 0k. Language like. Should be zero tolerance. It is not ok. Language like. Zero tolerance of what . Of any kind of behaviour. Do you mean you cant proposition someone . Is that you are saying . wa nt someone . Is that you are saying . want to get drunk and get off with a person occasionally. At work, in your workplace. No one is talking about that. Zero tolerance and we are talking about kevin spacey when he was 27 and a 17 year old. Summer school student. There was no drink involved in that. Nobody had. Somebody said drunken encounters and somebody said zero tolerance. The reason i think it is nerve wracking is because part of the fight for womens liberation was partly a sexual liberation and it was partly about having the capacity to be treated as equals and not to see ourselves in some kind of victorian, there was a time in the victorian, there was a time in the Victorian Era when women couldnt go out without shab ropebs and they had to be accompanied everywhere, there was a curfew for them because they we re was a curfew for them because they were delicate flowers and they needed to be protected from predator men. Im worried that 2017 is going to end up with that if we dont get a sense of proportion because rape and Sexual Assault. Drunken fum blings, we have all done it. We will talk more in the next half an hour. We have heard a second claim that kevin spacey made a sexual advance ona kevin spacey made a sexual advance on a teenageage boy in the 1980s. So with me he was either very stupid or he was predatory and or maybe a little both. Whatever the case maybe, i was uncomfortable at best and traumatised at worse. More reaction to that interview to come throughout the morning. We have a studio full of guests talking about Sexual Harassment in the workplaces across a variety of industries. We will talk about why and what needs to change. We have seen westminster playing this out in public, what strikes me is how difficult it is for people who suffered abuse to gain a resolution, any sense ofjustice and there is an opportunity, westminster must be seen to lead on this and with that it needs to be independent. It has got got to be beyond the parties. We need more female role models and we need morewomen in leadership positions and we need people to speak up and we need a support system in place for those people not to feel vulnerable that they are going to lose theirjobs or not get the investment they want and that they will get the careers they are aiming for. What else needs to change . There needs to be a safe space for people to call in from any industry. There needs to be a helpline to enable people who are in institutions like the Royal Air Force to speak out there. Maybe Complaints Procedures in place, but i have people who contacted me who are still serving as a result of watching a play that i wrote about my own experience. What needs to change . The idea of the casting couch being an unacceptable way for both victims and the perpetrators of moving up both victims and the perpetrators of moving up careers. Both victims and the perpetrators of moving up careers. I think that has to really end. Thank you. So much more from our audience throughout the programme this morning. Heres rachel in the bbc newsroom with a summary of todays news. Good morning. At least eight people have been killed and i seriously hurt in new york city in what officials have described as a terror attack. Eyewitnesses saw a white pick up Truck Driving at speed down a cycle path in Lower Manhattan, before it hit a number cyclists and pedestrians. A 29 year old man was shot by police before being arrested and taken to hospital. The mayor of new york, bill de blasio has condemned the attack. That this action was intended to break our spirit. New yorkers are strong. New yorkers are resilient and our spirit will never be moved by an act of violence and an act meant to intimidate usment we have been tested before as a city, very near the site of todays tragedy and new yorkers do not give in in the face of these kinds of actions. The Prime Minister has referred the first secretary of state, damian green, to the countrys most senior civil servant, after he was accused of making sexual advances towards a female conservative activist. Mr green has strongly denied the allegation made by the writer, kate maltby, saying it was deeply hurtful. We can now speak to our assistant Political Editor norman smith. Norman. Well, damian green, as you say, overnight categorically denied the allegation saying they were com pletely the allegation saying they were completely and absolutely untrue. He says hes shocked and hurt by them and regarded the individual, kate maltby, as a friend. Although he has been referred to the Cabinet Office for investigation, downing street are pointing out thats the normal procedure that always applies when any minister is facing these complaints and is not a suggestion that mr green might be guilty or involved in these allegations. As for involved in these allegations. As foer involved in these allegations. As for mr green himself, he has instructed a firm of liable lawyers to pursue anyone who makes defamatory comments about him and this was his reaction as he was leaving home this morning. Reporter have you been behaving inappropriate. Is it right that downing street investigate you . All the allegations are completely false. Reporter do you regret your behaviour, mr green . There mr green saying all the allegations are com pletely saying all the allegations are completely false, but perhaps the significance here is this isjust the latest in a number of individuals who have been prepared to go public with these sort of allegations. Remember yesterday we had the labour activist bex bailey saying her claim of rape had not been properly investigated by the labour party and there is a growing view at westminster that perhaps we will see more of these claims and allegations beginning to surface as more and more women are prepared to come forward and to speak out. Norman,thank you very much indeed. Norman,thank you very much indeed. Norman smith there. The labour mp john mann norman smith there. The labour mpjohn mann told us of four cases that he is aware and that claims are not being taken seriously at westminster. In both cases the Parliamentary Authority and the political authority, nothing was done and women who did come forward and complained. The other two havent made complaints because i think they feel they wont be believed. They feel i have got over it. It was relatively trivial. This programme has exclusively been told of another sexual advance made towards a teenager by the actor kevin spacey. John not his real name claims that he rebutted sexual advances from mr spacey after meeting him at a Summer Theatre School when he was 17 in the 1980s. Earlier this week spacey apologised after being accused of making a sexual advance toward child actor anthony rapp, who was ia. We have approached Kevin Spaceys representatives for a comment but have not yet received a response. Here is whatjohn told us about his encounter with the actor. So with me he was either very stupid or he was predatory or maybe a little both. Whatever the case maybe, i was uncomfortable at best and traumatised at worse. John repped counting his experiences. A report which aims to learn lessons from the experiences of people whose relatives died in the Hillsborough Disaster, will be published this morning. It will include the conduct of past Police Investigations and look at the families engagement with public authorities over the last 28 years. Written by former bishop of liverpool, the right reverend james jones, its intended to help the authorities respond to future disasters. Man convicted of murdering mike samwell has been jailed for life. 29 year old ryan gibbons has been told he will serve 27 years for running over mr samwell as he stole his audi sports car from outside running over mr samwell as he stole his audi sports carfrom outside his home in april this year. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news more at 10. 30am. Thank you you. Good morning. Welcome to the programme. Today we have been discussing Sexual Harassment, its impactand discussing Sexual Harassment, its impact and how it can be challenged. Our audience is made of up of men and women, some of whom have been harassed at work. We are going to try to work out what can be done to tackle it, to stop it in hr departments, in schools, in society, about how you bring up your boys, whatever it might be. One thing that has come up a bit already is some men are confused about what kind of behaviour is acceptable. Is that a cce pta ble behaviour is acceptable. Is that acceptable for men to say that come they are confused . What do you think . I actually returned to banking after having a period out. Sorry. I returned because i had had two small children and took a steep learning curve. I was called into the managers offers who congratulated me on how well i was doing. He said, lets go to lunch and we can discuss promotion. Over lunch he propositioned me that if we we re lunch he propositioned me that if we were to go to bed together i could next at the next grade up. I needed that bringing up two young children. I was shocked. I said maybe some other young ladies may ta ke maybe some other young ladies may take you up on that offer but i am not that person. We got back into the banking pool and i thought, i have to deal with this. In the middle of the banking hall in front of staff and customers i said, about that offer for a of staff and customers i said, about that offerfor a promotion of staff and customers i said, about that offer for a promotion to get into bed with you, im sorry, i decline, not that person. I said that in front of everybody. Claire, what do you think of that . That is brilliant. That is an obvious absolute example of harassment. You called it out. That is brilliant. Thats not quite the same as an article in the papers today which says you have to talk to your sons and your brothers and warn them about talking to women. I want more social interaction between the sexes and not it all to be lumped in that one. Andy, are you one of those men wondering if it is all right . suffered Sexual Assault from high powered executives who offered me further into my career. One thing that worries me about this debate is that worries me about this debate is that it has become my men are the perpetrators and that really worries me. If i had a son now, i would want to say to him, as a tactile man myself, i am gay but when i talk to women i may touch stoney. That is 0k. Women i may touch stoney. That is ok. I really think so. I have got a friend, a girlfriend, who rides on the underground and who feels threatened every time a man sits beside her on the tube. That is frightening. This is not about men versus women. It is about individuals. What really worried me about the start of the Metoo Campaign was that there were people saying, can men stop saying metoo . This is about women. We have established that. Ijust this is about women. We have established that. I just wanted to say that im not comfortable with anyone saying if you cant speak up that that is weak. I think it is amazing what you did. This is not a work situation. I was once on a train. It was raining. There was an umbrella poking in my shoulder. When i looked around it wasnt an umbrella. It was a mans penis. And i really wanted to stand up and showed penis at the top of my voice. But i didnt have the guts. I dont think that makes me less of a woman. As feminists we should stick together and embrace all types are women. All i did was move my shoulder, not dare look back again and got off the train at the next stop. Its not we give you cant speak out. Alex, as an employment lawyer, is there any advice you would give do those men at the moment who dont know what the boundaries are . Its like we said, its not just boundaries are . Its like we said, its notjust men. Social harassment is unwanted conduct. Its normally fairly obvious if something is wa nted fairly obvious if something is wanted or not. Were not saying that shouldnt be any relations between men and females ever. That isnt quite what anyone is saying, i dont think. It is clear when something is unwanted. Men need to then, or women, need to step back at that point. Perhaps if a man is confused about what is appropriate or inappropriate in the workplace, they should speak to their manager about it, their Human Resources about it. Perhaps there might be an equality wrap. You assume there is an infrastructure. A lot of the anecdotes we are hearing people who are freelancers, who are jobbing. There is no infrastructure. It tends to be with the perpetrators because they are the ones in power. Whilst it might be the Agency Workers or the would be worker looking for a job, the person that tends to be the one committing the harassment tends to be someone in a fairly senior position. What should they do . They aint going to go to the hr department. If someone really isnt sure what is appropriate or inappropriate, they could call acas. If there is a union in the workplace, there will be an equality representative. Im doing that thing that men do and talking over women i ask myself if you would do this in a job interview. If i was interviewed by a woman would i say that . If the answer is no, it is probably not appropriate. Most people will know when theyre harassing someone. That is pretty clear. You know when somebody does unwanted and you continue to do. Inappropriate behaviour or come ons, off the cuff remarks that land badly, that is different. People will know when it is inappropriate. You know when it is harassment. Will know when it is inappropriate. You know when it is harassmentfi only becomes fairly clear when it is unwanted. Someone may make an off the cuff comment and it is normally clear. You dont take it any further. My big campaign is Relationship Education for Primary School children. This is symptomatic ofa school children. This is symptomatic of a situation where a lot of children are learning about relationships through their social media, through porn. What we need is for children to be taught to respect themselves and others, to know they can say no but also if somebody says no and backs away, you have a duty to back away. That is a theme through all state schools, probably private schools as well. It is not specifically a bit of the education. It needs to be. It has to make a difference. At least then children know what the boundaries are. difference. At least then children know what the boundaries are. I am an entrepreneur. I am founder of the juno project and we do exactly that. We work with girls in secondary school. Girls at risk of being excluded from school or who have been excluded. We help them to develop their self esteem and their self confidence. Develop their self esteem and their selfconfidence. On this issue of self esteem and confidence, suzy you give that incredible example of where you called out your manager in front of staff and customers in the bank. Unbelievable. You called him out. Hopefully that was the end of him. Is there a difference between a woman of your age being able to do that and women now in their 20s, some of whom are saying, i couldnt speak out, i was worried about my job prospects . I do. Ithink speak out, i was worried about my job prospects . I do. I think that my mums generation ingrained that in my generation. You have to be a stronger woman and stand up for what is right. What i have to say as well is right. What i have to say as well is that if we dont deal with the situation there and then, were leaving that person open to doing it to somebody else. It also depends on the nature of the personality. If you feel you can do that. Sometimes you feel you can do that. Sometimes you cant. You are scared, youre worried. Would you consider yourself, and im going to use this pejorative term, to be of the snowfla ke pejorative term, to be of the snowflake generation . Meaning . Meaning you have been sexually harassed and you have told no one . Absolutely. The crazy thing is when everybody has been talking i have been sitting here thinking, oh my gosh, what about that that happened . And actually, i think we are just a representation of the small part of what this is. And that probably most people in society can say. A lot of people can say that something has happened to me or i have escaped something. I came on the programme to tell you about howl something. I came on the programme to tell you about how i escaped what could have been horrendous. I was pretty similar to you, sj. As a young actress in my 20s i took a phone call from a female pa, they needed an actress to do a scene. I thought, great. It was £450 in cash andl thought, great. It was £450 in cash and i thought this was great. Im working behind a bar. It was in the evening. I took a friend. It was in a hotel. Iwent evening. I took a friend. It was in a hotel. I went to the hotel. I thought, thats a bit odd. I got there. They said, go straight up to there. They said, go straight up to the hotel room. I thought it was strange. I went there. The director opened the door. And he said, do come in. He saw my friend and he said, no, he can stay outside. Anyway, the friend came in. As he talks to me, he lay on the bed. The tv was flickering, it was dark. He actually went on to say and said, i need you to go through a scene with me because tomorrow we have a young actress coming from india, she is very naive, we need to go through the scene to see how it works. When she gets here in the morning we will be able to do the scene smooth and it will go well. Our alarm bells ringing . I said, explaining, not sure what you want to do. She said he said the girl is deaf and blind and she starts to regain her senses. I said, blind and she starts to regain her senses. Isaid, ok, so blind and she starts to regain her senses. I said, ok, so whats happening here . He said, so what we are going to do, you and i were going to the bathroom, we will be in the shower. Its a stunning scene where she slowly begins to feel her senses coming back as shes in the shower. Dont worry, your friend can stay in the other room. Dont worry about that. It isjust stay in the other room. Dont worry about that. It is just you and stay in the other room. Dont worry about that. It isjust you and i in there together. And i thought, you, you asking me to masturbate in your shower . And he said, no, its not exactly like that. But, yes. It would just be you and me. Your friend can stay outside. Ijust said, no. Iwould not do friend can stay outside. Ijust said, no. I would not do that. Friend can stay outside. Ijust said, no. Iwould not do that. But funnily enough, you can pay for my cab home. When we left the room i fredman said to me, you know there we re two fredman said to me, you know there were two glasses of champagne already poured by the bed. I escaped. Thank god. How gross is that how disgusting let me read this tweet. Heather is 65. She was told to smile sweetly at sexual predators and move on. But this is 2017, so call them out, dont let them get away with it. It is important you have raised that. People say to me you are hard nosed, it is different. If you are young and in a position with little power, and i understand that. Believe it or not i was once young andl believe it or not i was once young and i get the point. But i do worry that my generation are rearing young women to be fearful and frightened. It is the balancing act between those tanks. It is one thing saying youre not going to stand for it any more. Another thing to be scared. I thought your point about being on the tube. Many women i talk to are frightened. They get that from their mums . No, what im talking about is society has put sexually predatory behaviour on the same trajectory. You can talk about victim blaming. That is how i get silenced. Im trying to explain there is a danger that the young woman will be silenced, our that so frightened that they would be walking on eggshells in relation to human relations with men. Hang on. There are women in care homes being abused were afraid to speak out. In my industry if you speak out. In my industry if you speak out, you lose yourjob. Im a musician. In my industry, if you speak out, you lose yourjob. The legislation that covers self employed people in the workplace is inadequate. We are not cove red workplace is inadequate. We are not covered as self employed people to get a case to the employment tribunal as sony high level requirements. Self employed people in my industry cant match those requirements. Not to mention the fees. I spoke out against a Sexual Harassment situation in myjob. I took a case to the employment tribunal and i havent worked in the industry for two years. I lost 20 grands worth of work per year. Im not scared of Sexual Harassment. But it is endemic in my industry and people who speak out lose work. We have talked about employment legislation and what could be made better. Sarah champion has talked about Relationship Education being mandatory in schools. What else . also think churches can really help. Why not . I go to a fantastic church in central london. Its got an amazing youth culture. Its got so many youth. I think its really important that we are supporting the next generation, building into the next generation, building into the next generation, building into the next generation exactly what you are saying. I also help out at a school. Safeguarding is fantastic. We also doa safeguarding is fantastic. We also do a programme with my church whizzes empowering women, giving them an opportunity to speak about young girls and women, for them to be able to speak out about something that may have happened in the life, mac to address issues and empower them. What else . I am actually a born again christian myself. The whole community, we have no morals. Come on, we cant have these sweeping generalisations. We dont. People on the street, we talk about Sexual Harassment, i go out and help daily. I dont see anyone doing that. No one has a heart and looks at the women or the little kids on the street, they are getting abused every day. Thats not true. It is true. I have a problem when someone starts saying religion is the solution. This is not about good people who are religious. Good people who are religious. Good people versus bad people. I have had a woman in a pub shove her hand down my trousers saying, i want to know how big it is. Victoria. It is about terminology as well. I read on facebook and forgive me for not remembering everything, but i am pregnant, so you know, i cant remember all things pregnant, so you know, i cant rememberall things basically pregnant, so you know, i cant remember all things basically it said something we always say this many women were raped, we dont see or this many men were raped, they dont say they were this many rapists, we say this many people we re rapists, we say this many people were a victim of Domestic Violence, were a victim of Domestic Violence, we dont say this many people were perpetrators of Domestic Violence. The onus is on the victim and you have only got to look in the media and there are a lot of men in the papers who have been in the media for Domestic Violence. There are a lot of women who have had Domestic Violence thrown at them and they are not working. Can ha can society do . We have talked about employment legislation. What else in terms of society . I think it is an attitudinal shift. It is about representing ourselves and others and where i will go with what was being said, we seem to be drawing more and more into the individual and less about helping each other. What would help in the abuse case is the people who observe, Harvey Weinstein, speak out, say something, challenge it. A viewer says, the Sexual Harassment stories on your programme today, thank you for continuing the conversation so that hopefully this kind of harassment comes to an end. Jane, delighted that your programme is highlighting this. Im 58 and i have been subjected to inappropriate behaviour at work and outside from the age of 15. I havent got any idea of how many times in total. Ive stopped counting. I have put it down to the perils of being a female. Kayla this is about men in powerfuljobs who believe they can do what they wa nt who believe they can do what they want without repercussions. Another viewer says ke need it hear stories. A viewer says, i am annoyed that ella and clare arent challenged as challenging claims as a feeding frenzy. I wanted to go become to the point of men not knowing what is and isnt harassment. It reminded me that i have forgotten about this situation. A few years ago when i was working for someone and i used to have to walk to work, it was quite a long way, and i would regularly get followed home, i would be co nsta ntly, followed home, i would be constantly, you know, harassed by certain men and im, i was quite a feisty person when i was younger more than i am now, i would be like no, no, iwould play every more than i am now, i would be like no, no, i would play every single card, nice, but no thank you, and i would be like can you please just back off, im not interested, im going to call the police, get off my case to the point where myself and norm work colleague, a female one, we re norm work colleague, a female one, were actually chased to work by this particular man, the same guy. He ran after us for what reason, i dont know to, get our attention, to whatever it was that he wanted to do, and we both managed to get back to work separately this is. And we called the police because this was not ok. And the police were like, we cant do anything other than just tell him its not ok. He didnt know what he was doing was not ok. Did the police speak to him or not . They said thats inappropriate and he was like, well, its not in my books and that was it. It is not a crime to run after women, sadly. No. They spoke to him. They did something. To defend the feeding frenzy point. I think it has got to this level of hysteria and it is unfair to say that us talking politically about what this thing has become larger than weinstein, it has become a moral panic and to assess that politically is not victim blaming, it is not saying that you should point at anyone who has a experience and say you are lying, we dont know, thats why it is an accusation or allegation, rather than a statement of fact. We are saying to women, that it is more effective to not say anything and po commence on social media because this is a social media because this is a social media because this is a social media phenomenon at the moment the me too thing rather than what the lady said and have it out at the time. Everyone is different. Of course, everyone is different. I have got a hard neck and no one will try anything on with me. Thats the woman i am. How can you say that that is not any better or worse than a shy woman. Thats personality. None of us brought this on ourselves. I think what you have said is out of order. Im trying to make a distinction and say we should empower women. Feeding frenzy, op opportunityist, jumping on the bandwagon. Let her finish. Im saying that i really want to make a strong point about this because i have had it up to there and i think most women have. We should make a point that women should feel empowered and men to stand up to bad behaviour when it happens. Roll back to the 60s and 70s when women were truly having a hard time, how dhaid change . It changed because people changed it because women stood up for themselves. That has to happen. I would like to say, ok, lets not argue about this, we need to move forward. So statementses like feeding frenzy, he is an opportunist, jmping on the bandwagon, they are not helpful in moving forward. If you think it is hysterical, we need to audit this. We need to know statistics. So there needs to be a place where people can report all of these incidents from touching on the knee to full rape, whatever, all of them are violations. All of them are non consensual. All of them are abuse of power. Let her finish. People need to audit that. We need to have a National Place where people can be heard and listened to and authorities need to get involved. Cani authorities need to get involved. Can i very, important for that, the reason why im critical about the me too thing, i was looking into it and one of the tweets that was popular that i saw said reminder, women who dont say me too have also had Sexual Harassment experiences. Victims dont owe you their store chris. Some of the tweets were just me too, there is no fact, there is no experience. If me too isnt suggestive of how many it is, how can we quantify it. It is a social media phenomenon at the moment. One of the dangers about the audit point, there is a list circulating of anonymous allegations against people, not proven and. This is to do with mp5. People, not proven and. This is to do with mps. To do with mps, but there has been one in the publishing and arts world in america. People are named as being perpetrators and one of the great gains of modernity is you have innocent until Proven Guilty and i am worried about a situation where and it is interesting about the kind of women should be believed, because actually it depends what the woman is saying. Julia Hartley Brewer by the way, a journalist who has been all over the newspapers because apparently somebody touched her knee. She said, i didnt find it inappropriate. I told him goat off. He didnt do it. No problem. She was all over the newspapers. And i have been supporting her right to say, im all right with it. And then suddenly you get told that you are using the wrong narrative. You said what you wa nt wrong narrative. You said what you want is women to say only the one thing, but when women maybe ella or julia or other women say a different thing suddenly we are the wrong kind of women, giving the wrong kind of story. Im going to pause there. Im going to try and sum up what we have discussed in the last hour and a half, do you give me, good luck. Im going to need that. It is not just good luck. Im going to need that. It is notjust women. Thats, we have made that clear today. We have heard some quite astonishing in some cases, utterly grim testimony from you and i thank you for being open and talking about the kind of experiences. We have heard strongly that from some people that women should empower women to speak out now and to not worry about that, but we have discussed that it it is down the nature of your personality as ella said, as suzy suggested as well. We have talked about Relationship Education in school, should it be mandatory, would that really make a difference . Respect lessons, audit, and changes for legislation for people who are self employed who have nowhere to go when they have a complaint to make. Generational divide. We talked about briefly. dont think there is. Im a3. Im, ive hardly had any sexual partners and im as timid as can being, i love a bit of banter, i love that, but if a man sends me a picture of his penis, i cant believe i have said it so many times or if they rammed me up against a wall in a hotel, im timid. This happened to me. Iwas hotel, im timid. This happened to me. I was a reasonably feisty nurse who would nurse patients, go to case conferences, stand up in court, when i needed to for a patient, this happened to me. I didnt call it out at the time to him. I have called it out within the workplace. This has changed me significantly. For most people that know me, this is the first they know of what has happened to me. Im off work for two years and nobody knows why. That is what is happening. Well, thank you for telling us today. Thank you. Thank you for giving up so much of your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. A major report which examines hillsborough. The reports aim is to inform authorities in their handling of current and future disasters, with some bereaved relatives saying it could help the victims of the g re nfell it could help the victims of the grenfell fire. Our reporter has been to speak to some of the people affected by the tragedy. Its been nearly 30 years since hillsborough, but for many the memories are still raw. Even those who werent alive when it happened seem to understand its significance. My mum was. She was a real character. She was actually from denmark, and she moved over here in the 60s. She was a huge beatles fan and a Rolling Stones fan. She made the connection between the beatles and liverpool, so she decided that it was liverpool was the team she was going to follow. You know, by the time hillsborough happened, we were going to like a0 plus games a season, home and away, following liverpool all over the country. It was really you, your brother and your mum. Absolutely, it was the three of us, thats what we did as a family. But for liverpools sold out fa cup semifinal in 1989, the shah family split up. 17 year old becky watched the match at home, her mum and brother went to sheffield. Shortly before kick off, a large crowd of fans built up outside one end of hillsborough stadium. An exit gate was opened, and there was a severe crush. Ijust couldnt believe what i saw, and obviously found it very, very upsetting, just even, you know, i was upset about my mum, butjust watching ordinary liverpool fans, some of them gasping for air, some of them having to have the kiss of life. And i sat at home and just felt so completely useless. And that feelings never gone away. And it was about four oclock in the morning when a police car turned up at my house and told me that my mum. Had died. Inger shah was one of 96 men, women and children who died at hillsborough. Her ashes were scattered at anfield, and her two children were put into care and were very nearly separated. I think it would have been absolutely horrendous, on top of the bereavement and the trauma that wed already had to suffer, because of our mums death and a Massive National disaster. To then have to be split up from your only relative is just surely too much. Obviously, you know, we had some support from the social services. My brother had some treatment for his trauma. But it was by no means enough. Now a report which aims to reveal the experiences of people bereaved by hillsborough is being released. This new report by the former bishop of liverpool how important is that for the hillsborough families . I think thats incredibly important. Walk on. With hope in your heart. There are times when i do feel exhausted, i feel absolutely shattered, and one of those times was after the inquest, where i woke up the next day and felt that all of this, over all these years, has taken years off my life. And thats why this report is so important. I want to know why its taken the government 28 years to come and ask us what life has been like for us. Over this period. I think thats absolutely disgraceful. Its taken them 28 years. This new report focuses on those who lost loved ones at hillsborough, but becky says the impact of the tragedy goes much further. From the survivors who suffered life changing injuries that day to the campaigners whove been supporting all of the victims from the start. What people need to realise, were going back to 1989, so even the term post Traumatic Stress wasnt in common usage, as it is now. We know of survivors that have committed suicide because they couldnt live with the trauma theyve experienced over time. Initially, in the hospitals and everything, obviously, there was support when i had to learn to walk again and, you know, talk. Once out of hospital, nothing, nothing at all. When you say nothing at all, does that include no counselling . No counselling, no nothing, just. Just left. Basically. Ive got like a brain injury, you see . And its a complex one, so each day its, em. Its just really difficult, isnt it, yeah . Take your time. I think the thing for gill is that, like a lot of survivors, she stayed in the background. She stayed in the background when people should have been shouting for support for her, and that is the crucial factor, because we know, i mean it is a fact that when people receive help in the immediate aftermath, they stand a much greater chance of recovery, and thatjust didnt happen after hillsborough. And you know, multiply gill by hundreds of people, potentially thousands, and you begin to get the picture. I myself have suffered terribly with Mental Health problems, with post Traumatic Stress and survivors guilt as a result of the disaster. And its really impacted on me, ive lost myjob during the inquest, and ive almost been sectioned. Do you think that if hillsborough happened today, the reaction and the support there would be different . I think it would be different, but it still leaves a lot to be desired, and i suppose the most obvious comparison to make at present would be the Grenfell Tower fire. We went down to grenfell very shortly after the disaster, just to say that the most important thing at the moment, apart from adequate rehousing, is specialist trauma counselling, and if you can learn anything, its that this must be put in place. And i think that is still a contentious issue from people we know around grenfell. All these years later, we still have the situation where survivors of the disaster are being excluded. What i think is the good thing about grenfell is that people are shouting out about it, and they are saying, we will not wait, we will not wait 28 years, we will not be like hillsborough. And thats the positive, and when we hear that, were always heartened by that. This report is being released. Is that it for the fight . Do you feel that youve reached a conclusion . Obviously, we welcome anything which takes things a step further, but this is a long road that people have been on for many years. The legacy of hillsborough has to be a better society, because its notjust about a report to be put on shelves, its about people cannot be treated like this. Anna collison reporting. The hillsborough review is released at 11 30am. Us President Donald Trump has ordered the department of Homeland Security to step up vetting measures, after a deadly truck attack in new york. Eight people were killed and 11 injured when the driver of the truck hit people on a cycle path in Lower Manhattan. Five argentines were among the dead. Heres how events unfolded. Some of what you see will be disturbing. Something told me that something bigger happened. A male driving a pick up truck entered the bicycle path, began driving southbound, striking a number of pedestrians and bicycles. The truck collided with a school bus, injuring two adults and two children. After the collision, the driver of the truck, a 29 year old male, exited the vehicle brandishing two handguns. We see this guy and he had guns. I think he had a beard maybe. And everyone was like, run, get back in the school. We ran in and hid behind the school. We ran in and hid behind the locker. 0h oh my god let me be clear based on the information we have at the moment this was an act of terror. And a particularly cowardly act of terror. Aimed at innocent civilians, aimed at people going about their lives with no idea of what was about to hit them. We can speak now to professor scott lucas, professor of american studies at the university of birmingham. Kamran bokhari, a Senior Analyst with geopolitical futures, a private intelligience firm based in houston. And margaret gilmore, a senior associate fellow, at the Royal United Services institute. Margaret gilmore, whatever you do, you cant stop this kind of attack using a vehicle as a weapon if somebody is determined to use it . No, you cant, not here. There is a lot you can do to mitigate against it. We have heavy duty bollards to stop a lorry getting into areas where there are lots of people. We have pedestrianised around major busy railway stations. Buildings like the bbc have been pedestrianised to stop vehicles getting close. You can mitigate against it. But the terrorist who wa nts to against it. But the terrorist who wants to will get through. In the case of the uk we have seen this year that they have found that they could actually mind the pavement on london bridge. Somebody else mounted the pavement in march along westminster bridge. They will always find a way. A huge amount of work is going on to try to stop this. That doesnt take away from the horror of every attack that does get through. Some things can be done but you cannot guarantee stopping everything. Professor lucas, the driver of this vehicle is in custody. He is from uzbekistan, we are told, which is not on Donald Trumps flight plan . Uzbekistan would not have been affected even if the muslim ban had been imposed by the muslim ban had been imposed by the us courts. He has been in the us since 2010. Extreme vetting doesnt apply to people already in the United States. Donald trumps statement is political theatre. If you were to implement extreme vetting to stop any attack, you have to vet people from every country in the world, notjust muslims or people with beards. It is not a practical system. The previous comments you have heard about sensible enforcement, monitoring people who may be a danger and trying to mitigate attacks, that is the way forward rather than this kind of political over the top and divisive comments President Trump has made. What you think about what scott lucas has said, that you needs to vet everyone, notjust men with beards . I agree with scott. There is just no way, i cannot think of a mechanism in which you can vet people like that. I think the president , when he is saying this, is speaking to his base whom he has promised during the campaign that he will crack down on illegal immigration, refugee flow and terrorists trying to get into the country. But impracticality ijust dont see how we can get to people, at least not everyone of them. The difficulty is that when these people come aim, they are usually not radicalised at that point. If they are radicalised, the chances are they are on some monitoring list. They are on some transfer list. The authorities are looking into them. This individual appears to have been radicalised at some point during his stay. We dont know when. It is not a case of exit and entry. It is a case of how you prevent people from getting radicalised inside the country. Margaret gilmore, it appears there was a note inside this vehicle with some link to isis. The police are suggesting he was a lone wolf. It is too early potentially to say that, isnt it . Probably not too early. We know a lot about this type of event. It looks like it was spontaneous. In a country rife with guns he didnt get his hands on any guns. That gives away quite a bit. I would like to pick up a point about the response. Nothing can take away this man was a terrorist who murdered a people and maimed others. But the response tells us quite a bit about american policy and the trumps regime. Regime policy. Get tough on immigration, go back to countries with muslim populations. We know what the answer to that is. But when we saw recently a wide wealthy middle american with an arsenal of weapons kill 58 people in las vegas, there was very little policy discussion afterwards. And virtually no change whatsoever on the gun policy. If we looked at the statistics are one night he would find that more people would have been killed overnight in gun crime in the us than happened in this appalling event. That doesnt, as i say coming in any way detract from the horror of this event. Is that a fair point, scott lucas . totally agree. If you are really talking about the increase in violence you have to approach violence you have to approach violence by all people, whatever their religion or race. Trump supporters were not back gun control but they will back harsh measures against those they consider to be dangerous, unfortunately, muslims. Thank you for your company today. On the programme tomorrow, the therapy industry and how it is regulated. See you tomorrow. Good morning. It is largely dry across many parts of the uk. We have got some heavy rain affecting western scotland. It has been raining in part of western scotland since monday evening. You can see the latest radar picture. Rain moving south into the south west of scotla nd moving south into the south west of scotland and eventually some rain pushes into northern ireland. Showers behind that in the north of scotland. Most of england and wales looking at a fine afternoon with good spells of sunshine, particularly across wales and the midlands. More clout in the north east. Temperatures about 12 or 13 degrees. This band of cloud and rain moves further south overnight. Fob develops in southern areas. That would be around first thing. Tending to clear away. Cloudy weather in the south. But the bulk of northern england, scotland and northern ireland, thursday afternoon is pleasant. Temperatures nine to 12. 14 pleasant. Temperatures nine to 12. 1a in the south. This is bbc news and these are the top stories developing at 11. Five friends from argentina are among eight People Killed and 11 injured in a truck attack in new york. An immigrant from uzbekistan is in Police Custody President Trump says us authorities will step up vetting measures. This was a terror and a particular cowardly act of terror aimed at the lizard aimed at people going about their lives. The Prime Ministers deputy, damian green, denies allegations of inappropriate behaviour towards a female activist. Lessons from the Hillsborough Disaster a report on the families experience is published in the next hour. Also coming up sacred to aboriginal australians