Transcripts For ALJAZ Studio 20240703

And the Overall Office with his position on portables had changed order was affordable and when he was appropriate for an affordable, i tried to get to re appropriate to retract that money. They didnt, they would. And in the meantime, theres nothing under the law of them. They have to use the money for what it was from. I cant stop, you know, j pardon is that to me . The child is present. Shes been paying San Francisco next month, according to the Washington Post at the pat last thats on the sidelines of the g. 20 summit last november towards for those several high profile visits by us. Officials to china in recent months depends. You can says us forces have shut down an um, tech is driven in syria. It happened this took a lost and offensive game theory ended curtis forces us. Its a regrettable incident, but us commanders on the ground did assess that. There was a potential threaten so they took prudent action in this scenario. But again, the secretary has talked to his counterpart. They had the opportunity to have a fruitful conversation and again commit to one another that the us and turkey will continue to close the communicate and coordinate. And, and as i mentioned, turkey does remain a very important and valuable nato ally and partner to the united states. Sir and Officials Say at least 18 people have been killed in a try and attack on a minute. Treat graduation, sorry, but in homes, more than 240 had been injured. A syria has declared 3 days of national morning. At least 52 people have been killed in ukraine in one of the west attacks since the beginning of the will more than 18 months ago. They were attending awake, for a soldier in the rural village in the region of khaki. All right, right. State headlines here, a non 0. Weve got more news coming up. Right. Also we go to st. Itd be unscripted bye for now. As i care about helping us engages with the rest of the world, i cover foreign policy, national security. This is a political em. How, heres the conflict. Are we telling the good story . Were really interested in taking you in to a place that you might not visit otherwise. Its actually feel as if you were there were highly corporate tips patients. And if you going to be a corporate of species, you calling to be picking each other up and stretch each other on the side, youre gonna figure out other ways of working out, you know, how were going to corporate it either way, my name is will store im a journalist and also in my latest book, despite escape, i examine how the human does offer recognition has help shape our existence. And what happens when spect escapes . Theyre terribly wrong. When we are thinking about comparing Human Behavior to what we see and of the species where we find the most profound similarities is not actually in our classes living relatives nicolo re, honey, im an evolutionary biologist. And also im fascinated by what we humans have in common with other species. And what it is that sets us apart the thing is that correct . So youve told a bit about people. He for example, become neo nazis or are they doing coats . What is it about these people that makes them start to believe crazy things . Well, i think thats a brute, honest as i is that the brand isnt particularly interested in the true. So you start to be interested in the accuracy in how the world works, right . Whats nice, who do i have to be . What do i have to believe . Who do i have to come to corporate with these people and to gain status, you know, within the, in the heritage. So right about the idea of the brightness the here i make the next week or psychologically healthy, right . Im just telling a story, you know, a story about how we write about the things we believe this is. So is and, and we tend to believe facts, any of the comments that flat to that kind of hero. He wrote making narrative. And at any facts we come across in the world that contradicts it. And the brain is very good at, right . You know, deflecting it and finding ways to kind of onto mine it. Yeah. So, so yeah, that i on i think thats kind of kind of kind of coming into one of us and, and even really, really smart people. I mean, shes so in, in, in the air at 6 i spend some time with david irving who was the no ones seen is uh, you know, on test the historian of the 2nd world war. And you know, started to believe that hitler was in his was a friend of the jews. Im so sorry, you know, this, the, the, these are, these kind of problems can impact the very smallest kind of people among us. But you know, the other side is that people do become kind of mentally unwell, paranoid, and i was wondering if you could speak to kind of how power no, i kind of impacts people and kind of builds that kind of conspiratorial thinking. Yeah. Say, well power, no error is basically the belief that something bad will happen and somebody else intends for it to happen. So we know that people who are more paranoid, more likely to endorse conspiracy theories, specifically ones that are about them, that pertain to something thats going to happen to me, not just to society. And it can be really pervasive. Its really quite common in the general population. Is no power, no air and conspiracy thinking not just things that people who have a Mental Health disorder which would experience, but in fact, all of us can be paranoid, scala. You know, i dont know, there is a normal part of the functioning human psychology, like as cheap interesting to me. So in a way that when youre speaking to people who may be, have a slightly conspiratorial mindset. Do you find it difficult to gain access to your, to people or to speak to them in, in ways where they will talk to you freely about that belief . So is that as well the have to be a bit county as a, as a, as a jet less than certainly when i was reporting on with day for the thing that was actually quite uncomfortable. So. So david, the thing was im putting on these kind of trips to all the costs sites in, in, in eastern europe. So i went along there and kind of had to basically pretend that i was a, especially in the notes. So as i was with all these people who you know, um, who has the course to know as we were in a concentration camp for one points and they were kind of questioning, why is that, that, why is that there . And it was, is it so it was extremely uncomfortable that is often the way in with people who have kind of freight comes spiritual, really minded the you have to kind of blend into them and kind of, you know, allow them to, you know, believe that you kind of understand, you know, where theyre coming from for me anyway. I think thats a much better way of understanding him than the 1st adversarial model of what you would just attacking people shouting out because they kind of back away. Did you find in the, in that you were starting to find points of Common Ground or did they still remain quite aliens . You even the, i mean its difficult, isnt it that youre interacting with people on a personal level . No points of Common Ground but, but certainly the empathy, the thing that i saw was extraordinary on that trip was the number of the men on that trip whose parents had forward. So as far as, as far as in the 2nd multiple with announces and it was the on, on the final evening of the trip, there was a, a viewing of the film down full, which is hyper realistic movie about the last days. And they hit this bunker into the bowl. And there was a guy that who was australian german who didnt want to watch the movie. Because his father was in the bunker was hitler. And he found it too upsetting to watch. And suddenly you understand that these are people who love the moms and dads, the moms, and thats what announces. And so its, its, it says that the kind of a lifes work almost has been to deny the story of reality. Which is the holocaust happened to the nazi district with will folks so that was a real live old moments in the and if theres a there was points of Companies Trust in the in the in that sense. Yeah. No, certainly a governments are kind of im just understanding. Glad to hear. Yeah. Like seeing people as, as, as people and. Yeah, just that beliefs. Yeah. The and then i guess another question that i, that i have about that is the extent to which theres, theres a conspiratorial narrative. So those tendencies to adult, those so radical world views are linked to status. How can we understand that theres in terms of losses in games in status . Well, i mean, is it says, because actually because it is the groups of state just games in the states game, right . That the antivirus movements and 90 beautiful man to fax a list in this particular interview, a sheet she, she, she came across the Facebook Group and announced itself is the vaccine hesitant and was immediately surrounded by people saying, oh well, look at this and look at this and look at this and she felt what she did, she felt accepted. She, she was a young, im seems to be mother. She was 18 years old. She had my strong minded, we made an issue. I was surrounded by these heroic sounding strong minded women. And she, she wanted to get their approval, so she started going out there and arguing with that, causing that, arguing with the adults, of course, not getting a child backs nice if you took it, it shouldnt do that initially. So its, its an easy access, but its not how she can state this and the more you can status, the more you want to go out there and, and, and practice the belief. And i think thats, that for me, thats what, thats the re dangerous mechanism in a lot of these groups. Yeah, and i think thats even a Research Showing that, for example, a conspiracy mindset or a spouse in conspiracy theories for some people at least, is driven by a desire to be unique, a desire to show that you are an individual thing. Can you do you and research and all that kind of thing . Yeah, absolutely. But a bit increase also about corporation within the group is a very powerful effect that we, we tend to just believe the things of a high state is people in all groups. Belief is that parts of what you said as possible corporation mechanism, or is that more about status . No. The so part of how we think that culture spreads and humans is because people are more likely to copy high spaces individuals and, you know, thinking back to the, the, the power, no air and conspiracy thing. Topics. We know that if you feel low states, as for example of being either being low status in society or maybe being part of the marginalized Ethnic Minority Group or things like this can also be real triggers for people to experience. Look for net levels of paranoid source, but so when we think about how we see ourselves in some respects and so youve talked about in your book, for example, is sophie about the rise of individualism and particularly in in the west. And the gnosticism that accompanies that, why does that come from . Where is that taking us . Yeah. So, so theres lots of ideas that way, you know why weston is on average more individualistic then, then people in our thoughts of the world. And you know, theres a, theres a fascinating theory or the geography of thoughts about how the physical landscape ends up impacting how we think and receipts a world. And so it is, as this one is one of the. So the idea is there are about why west an individual doesnt seem to begin an ancient greece. And the serious of the, the, the, it was, the landscape was a place where group in depth as well, really possible. Like if you go to china, now were low hills, so im great for farming a site, so its a big group. Corporate reforming in depth is very nice increase. That was impossible because most of the terrible for farming, the soul isnt good enough and it was around it. I think a 1000 individual city states. Im close to sending to see rookie islands. So is it so in order to get along and get, hey, kind of had to be a bit more of a self stop to you have to be somebody that was be a pasta or you know, attending a few only only of trees and youll gardens make oil, so it says select trace is kind of individually stick id and a self way in order to survive, to get them engaged. You get to kind of push yourself kind of fluids. And of course very, you know, fascinating. The united increase. We see things like the nonsense as a mess. You know, im nauseous as you kind of fell in love with his image and you get, you know, great sports and competitions. You get the idea of self esteem. You get the idea of an education. So is that, so yeah, you know, i is a kind of fascinating kind of theory, you know, hes not binary, but the weston emphasis on me, me, me, me, me comes from the physical landscape of a, of ancient greece. And i was wondering, so whether you felt, you know, kind of kind of this kind of individually of how that impacts corporation are corporate. If night during the west, theres been a bunch of work done by people like jo, henrich and, and people like that that have actually seen individualism through a different lens in some ways by looking at how you can understand individualism as being a reduction in the strengths of family ties. So essentially youre, youre in that youre, youre focusing less on your immediate family, immediate friends, and you kind of broadening that Social Circle out and making your own links. And your obligations are not actually so much within that tight smooth circle that you feel emotional, impartial, and sense of obligation to pretty much everybody. Right . So i think this, this idea that individualism in some ways can help us to explain the rise of large scale corporation, our willingness to cooperate with strangers. That might also come, you know, with the, with the, by products of being actually slightly less concerned with nepotism will help Single Family helping our friends and things like that. Do you relate to that sort of description . Yeah, i mean i, shes so rice about that, that the id area in the state to scott and the, the idea that actually, you know, west individually some is about cooperating not with the media group with the media family. Its kind of breaking those traditional ties and learnings go freight with, with, with, with people outside our group and see them know as members of groups as such. But as individuals is youll use those me because youre a pots that are in your right, right . Yeah. Oh yeah, yes, sophie was, was much more about how our kind of me focused west himself. Seems to have made us more perfectionistic. Right. And there was so for large study which looked at levels of rates of perfectionism in the west, in canada, the us and the you guys missed the ninetys. And since, um, you know, sometimes to, and isnt, isnt the liberalism that kind of fight to reagan revolution . Style points that was due to increased competition wherever we could find that to get rid of the big states to get rid of bank to you know, to, to regulation. Um, get rid of it as many rules as possible. And so make everybody more competitive and how the extraordinary kind of effect that had them, but the sense of the west and so we went from screw them out in the sixtys degree. It is good in, in just twins. It is, its quite extraordinary how we changed when once the economy changed and how the rules of how we supposed to get to the one gets ahead kind of had to change. But that you know, that, that was significant. Downsize to that, i think, and this rise in perfectionism is potentially particularly worry. And because with professionalism becomes, becomes things like, you know, eating disorder, steroid abuse in man, self home and you know, suicide. Were thinking, im oh, i was wondering if you, you felt that you know, with it with your kind of expertise in the amazing human heart corporation. How we could harness our kind of genius for corporation, the future to kind of make the world a bit happier if it more successful. You know, on the one hand, our ability to widen our Social Circles and to cooperate. More global scales with other people is really on. Possibly the reason that we managed to, you know, leave the environments in which humans evolved and to eventually colonize the globe. And so, you know, cooperating outside of our immediate family is a major part of a human success story. But its also the reason that we are now massively as a, populating the globe. And that, you know, it would be using this natural resources. And so its hard to say actually, whether our tendency to scale up that corporation and our co op for suitability is ultimately our, you know, is it our winning safe or power, or is it our and doing, i dont know, do you, what do you think . I think most often missed is that, that we are highly corporate if we tend to corporate mostly within our own groups. And i think thats perhaps the heart, the heart problems a crack for humans because we, because we are inevitably group ish, is very intuitive to us to corporate, local scales. And you know, you have with like, nepotism corruption, bribery, we didnt think of those necessarily as being corporation. But those are real examples of corporation. The high political, but generate society costs. And i think the big question for us is how we can corporate to generate Global Benefits and not just global costs. And with that, i think we should allow for some q and a from nutrients. My question, were spending time to make people go these of Conspiracy Theory specially with are the 2 axes that they are not real. I use. So how do you go about calculating those theories . That would be john age. That is a really important question actually essentially what youre talking about is changing peoples minds. And thats a really difficult thing to do. In particular, when people have have views that are quite entrenched and when repeating. So to then your own view can in some ways make that room you become more um, solidified. There is somewhat from baverly comics that suggests that one effective way to change peoples minds. For example, in the context of a Conspiracy Theory or see or Something Like that. Is rather than attempting to and who am best people with reasons why that wrong can be simply to ask them questions about why they believe the thing they do. And to some extent to undermine some peoples confidence in, in the foundations upon which those beliefs can be built. Yeah, i think thats upset. Right. I mean, i mean i, i think the, the other opportunity perhaps is the people are members of lots of different groups. That ones lots of different stages. Games at once. And i think one of the things we, we got into enough falls is looking at who has these beliefs. And what else do they believe if youre an american 90 back . So theres a potentially high probability of your patch off the bus and you love america. And so, you know, rather than i tried to convince him to that, but the specific belief about um and vaccines are wrong. You can tell a story potentially about how not taking the vaccine as an impact, realty guidance because American Economy is being kept behind your letting america down, bye bye bye and find reason to be vaccinated. So thats just one example. I think of, of where we can actually exploit the fact that people have intense and not really realize it, but they, they often lives by a number of contradicting kind of values. And we can use that kind of a separate value set. Is that a story that might challenge the kind of embedded unhelpful beliefs . Hi, im just waiting to see so, but my question is, what applies to various signatories . How in the classroom as they should as each uh, engage. Theres very small so lessons. I mean, its an increasingly important part of education, isnt it . I mean, one before the internet, conspiracy theorists what tended to be existing, raw, the isolated sections of society and its much more feasible now for people to connect with people who share are considered a similar conspiracy mindset for them. And for that to give this mindset created and say, i think understanding that, that, that, that they think goes on and let people do hope that different world views and how they come to help those world views is, is a really important part of understanding how to navigate a, you know, the social media, well, what, what do you, what do you think . Well, i kind of very strongly believe that they should, we should broadly teach young people. This is the human mind, this how it works. And these are the things that they often gets wrong, and in a conspiratorial belief in these very much i of, you know, a, a predictable kind of fast as the story is heading. Brian and one at one aspect to the stores in brighton, is it, its costly making these cause and effect connections. Awesome. Where there shouldnt be cause and effect connections is these causes and effects everywhere. When i was doing my research with the harris 61 next button, psychosis gave me something of what happens when somebody becomes psychotic, you know mentally ill. And they said, you know, like, so you walking down the, the street and 3 right, cause go past it. Once and let them, i think i was 3 cause discomfort that im way more you know, read on the past. I havent and i werent right on the pens. And so you say, so the story sitting brain is kind of going haywire and connecting dots. They shouldnt be connected. And this is exactly what we see in Conspiracy Theory, sir. So i, you know, i think its very important to teach young people some of this stuff and just to say, look, you know, your brain isnt this amazing reality. Reading machine is a story, etc. And sometimes i stories that going to be wrong. And heres how you can try and work out whether the story that your brain is getting a bit haywire. Hi, my name is becky. I want to know what you think about what coaches are good at cook collaboration. How can we, in schools, or you know, new lives, increase collaboration to teach us to be more collaborative with each other. So heres an example of to kind of contrasting cultures and the status perspective. So how can i write to them . States can, the 1st one is the, is the company and run, which is famous. They run the most corrupt companies that ever existed. So in, in rome they had, they had a culture, they had a significant, theyve run can young system. Whereby i think every year that they would say in a room and go through all of the people with that company and to find them in. So heres the top, i think it was 15 percent. Is the boss and 15 percent it needs the middle to 50 percent promoted middle scad, both in 5. And that is a terrible culture. You know, we will need stages. We will need to feel the values and if, and if we, if we have a culture in which site is very hard to come by, well start jealous a start, jealousy, defending it and stop. So, you know, stop being a top sick and im present to other people and defensive and so on. And b, as in the case of ever become corrupt because state is so hard to come by, but stop cutting, cold is the opposite of that is a global keep fit all most cult go cross fit. Im not cross with actually, but across space famously, 2 things. One is kind of culture and people who have gardens across across bit lives across it. And so it was incredibly successful. The difference for you guys across the anesthesia dont dream. It is a community. I mean, in that Community State is freely given. Everyones cheering, you will, and everyone is congratulating you. Theres not a pressure for you to complete this one challenge is everyones got to complete, its up to you, its about to, to your kind of strength. So the best culture is one of which states does not have to come by, and its freely given by the people. How guys my name is brett and im from west london. And in regards to conspiracy theories, weve obviously seen the caps arrives in the us address collation, where people done things to, to conspiracy theories. The islands seem for my lifetime. So my question to you is could kind of behavior and hop. And that was why, for example, in the u. K. If know what was the difference between these 2 societies that makes it possible. One of them they, when i interviewed richard this, but who was one of the great adults of this idea, irving, you know, it wasnt individually the study of that. He said basically, and, you know, the end, we get more, more individualistic as you go across kind of western europe. You know, u. K is really individualistic and then americas really individualistic and then is that it gets more millions of individualistic identity for into the pacific ocean. Is way waiting for us it and i think thats why sometimes in here we look, a site is going to america, like they kind of crazy and often the craziness. But what were seeing is craigslist is, is they really individualistic. And i think thats certainly true in the us in the end, and that creates some of that kind of move while the behavior is. But of course, the equally is tribal, you know, easy is about, you know, that all that stuff is that conspiratorial thinking, the queue in on people, you know, thats a try, but its a state escape and this stuff is universal like, you know, we, you know, we will kind of thing id like to, to, to it, to a certain degree. And so that they certainly no reason to why we couldnt at some point, you know, things hurry on getting was, this is see, stuff like that happening in the u. K. He says gleefully well about that he loves to look into today. I loved reading the social and things and its been such an honor to kind of finding meet you and get to kind of grill you in on the stuff i found most frustrating in that book. And i guess, you know, one of the takeaways ive got from our conversations today is that we really do have a genius the corporation as, as the, as a human animal. And if we can, you know, if we, if we can kind of harness that even more then theres no reason why the future shouldnt be bright for us be, shes, yeah, likewise, i read are massively enjoyed reading the states game and its been great to chat about that in detail today, and to think about the ways that this consent for all those 3 kinds of states us that you took that in the book, just pen me every aspect of our lives, the, the beginning of the time damage to post. Gosh, it has some b like why is being wiped out like wire, tens of thousands of people dying in western europe with most sophisticated Public Health care systems. I just have always found borders to be completely violent things. Nobody leaves homeless homeless and lots of the sharp people dont just flee unless theres something really difficult. When i see culture as really driven apart rent asunder by these arguments about slavery, imperialism, colonialism. Im like, there is an easier way the the from intimate moments to major social changes from mans impact on the planet to the impact of mine on himself that he has with depression. And its really asked to give yourself love the witness Award Winning films from around the world on which is the era in depth analysis of the days, headlines, 1000000 euros to help students here address migration. Is it going to ease the micro crisis . Will make it worse, informed opinions, we need more investors and more people that make the decisions to embrace human foot frank assessments. This balance between the toe and zones reassurance is a teacher named for the blindness industry show inside story. On al jazeera, imprisoned without trying to, ill just say a richard and list remain behind boss in egypt. The hot wood didnt seem detained since february 2020 the job yet a chief detained since august 2021. Ill just, the recalls for the Immediate Release of its generalist, detained in egypt. Journalism is not a crime the 3 days of morning in syria, after at least 18 people are killed and a trying to check on the military academy. The of the clock. This is out 0 in line from the hospital, so coming out in a move seen as a reversal us present. Joe biden approves to expand the boat