Transcripts For ALJAZ Inside 20240703

Hello and welcome to the program. Im how much im going for ukraine. Theres been plenty of financial and military support in europe since russia invaded last year and award thats seen as a Battle Ground between east and west. But keith is looking for support on another front to a country once joined with russia in the soviet union, and now wants to join the European Union sharing the economic Trading Travel Unemployment Benefits enjoyed by Member States. Powerful e figures such as your p and commission present. Ursula, wonder line back ukraines desire, but making it become a reality is proving far from simple. Not everyone shares or enthusiasm. There are worries about the price tag had the impact on existing Member States, as well as corruption and ukraine, and how and large the you would function in the future. Lets take a quick look at where were talking about. The ukraine is here in the center of europe, bordered by russia and bella roost, as we see here. The use made up of 27 countries, extending right across the continent. Ukraine shares of border with several e u Member States. Ukraine is possible membership of the you is one of the discussion points at a summit of the European Political Community thats taking place in the spanish city of grenada. From where sonya go, you go reports the 1st day is the announcement of the arrival of the ukrainian president followed him. Is the lensky is assigned that the issue of ukraine and its place among europe is very much at the center of these talks as well. Course there are other issues such as migration, but the ongoing role in ukraine is certainly one of the topics that is being discuss it normally. Also in connection with the enlargement of the European Union subject that has been discussed quite a bit alongside with allowing moldova and georgia and expanded version of the European Union. Now there are number of issues at risk. A not mention of course, there all the security issues, while european leaders, the leaders of the European Union, have expected to continue that support the ukraine and the war against russia. There is also perhaps less a kind of in c z ask them for allowing ukraine into the European Union itself. While this has been spearheaded by france and germany and of course mentioned by the European Commission president sniff ones, a lion, he said in parliaments last month that you prince place was in the union. There are a number of full mileage sees that are expected to take place before it can happen, even though there are reports of formal talks already occurring as soon as december still there is less than few c as in from other Member States as to what this would entail and the accountability that would need to happen. There is also the question of issues such as agriculture. Crane is a major, a agricultural producer, as well. That might come to class with other countries and their own worries about how that would conflict with their own Agricultural Industries as well as not scared. Also that negotiating the colon, cultural policy and the your opinion was us a normally complex issue here that will be Member States that will be reluctant to perhaps, to open that up again. Sonya guy, yeah, go out his era granada inside story. All right, lets go ahead and bring in our guest in berlin is alana perk of being co co chair of the trans Atlantic Task force for ukraine fellow with the German Marshall Fund and former Ukrainian Finance Ministry advisor in brussels. Is peter cliff, editor of brussels report. E u, an online news magazine, and then rome is daniella river professor at the center for high defense studies, part of the of time, ministry of defense. Shes also a former president of the european piece research association, a warm welcome to you all. And thanks so much for joining us today on inside story daniella, let me start with you today. If a decision is made to open form on the go sions for ukraine to join the you. How politically fraught will that process be as well, that this process would be definitely that a while of them to, for political implications. So obviously there is a, in the future level consideration to be made because its not so easy for account. Treat any country to be part of the European Union. So there are a bunch of former procedures to be taken into account of the same time that theyre also going to go to consider restaurants because the us always try to expand its boulder. So full strengthening for q a, t a and for a building, a list of peaceful enables us for sure. It will be a very complicated process which will require a big consensus and these little mental states so beautifully. And this is probably the most problematic. Think elena, ukraine got you candidate status in 2022. Thats a process that has taken a lot longer for other countries. On the waiting list. Ukraine essentially jump the queue. I want to ask you 1st. If that is fair. And i also want to ask you from your vantage point, could we see a shorter timeline for ukrainian membership in the u to write ukraines u. Accession process is obviously very complex, political and technical undertaking, but it doesnt have to be a lengthy one because he writes, i mentioned to crane received a fast truck the you kind of a see a status. And it was also a seen by many as a goal that will take years to achieve yet ukraine received the status just months after its us submitted its formal application. And though, although you membership for full accession is and much more complex and vicious undertaking. Ukraine havent been, has been paying the highest price for the European Values for freedom and for democracy it has been proving again and again, since the revolution of dignity to the 1014. 00 thoughts, it is ready to fight and ready to die for these values. Moreover, speaking about the married based approach to you, ken of the steps for crane and about the fairness thats you refer to it is fair because the crane has been making very significant progress on the reform truck. It has been complying with the 7 conditionality of the European Commission that have been put forwards uh, due to end the tide to cranes further you integration more over, less frontier crane past and other a package of legislation to bring it closer to the you and it does need a fast truck procedure, but most important for you, its a, its the political will, that needs to be there and the obstacles to ukraines membership. And these, you are largely political and the countries behind them, but theyre always hungry. And then slovakia no longer comply with your can values they do not belong to. They are confirmed that and shouldnt have say in this process. So i would say that its up to a word, democratic allies, into your can union to put pressure on these Member States and to, to have them seize, blushing ukraines full integration. And then you obviously, lena, it is very controversial still. And i do want to ask you more about the package of legislation that was passed in ukraine. But 1st i want to go to peter peter, even a formal negotiations for ukraine to join the you were to begin later this year. This is not a short process. I mean, you heard alana talk about the political opposite goals that lay ahead when it comes to joining the e u. How difficult could all of this become and, and from your vantage point, do you think it could become a reality . I think indeed, at this point, its still very unrealistic. And only uh, today we have the former Commission President as uncle duke are coming out and saying that ukraine is, is very corrupt according to him. And this is something those of course confirmed by international on the rankings. But he also says that we should not give our friends and he considers ukraine to be a friends. Rodney, so we, we should not give our friends false hopes. Uh so um you know, behind the scenes diplomats say that the west is trying to sort of square to circle they want to give you create and hope that. Ready want to send material positive signals, but at the same time, in the reform process and ukraine still take a lot of time. Then you have a, um, what this potential membership of ukraine really have been given this much consideration were not for the russian invasion of ukraine. Is that the political reality behind all of this right now . It can be a political reality about the same time is as externally difficult because the kitchen was saying before, there are a lot of political consideration to be made and for sure uh the the consideration of fun. Lets see the reactions with the other countries and the bottom piece on the which the re space to are also playing a role actual. So for sure, the configuration of the some be strongly for my submission can be done. And obviously, as i was saying before, a format for features can also be stopped. Probably. They may style to a 9 to future or not in the near future, but at the same time, i think its not just and id say no to my team process because ive seen many, many difficulties along the line alana you were talking before about a package of laws that have been passed in ukraine to meet the criteria to join the you. I want to ask you about that because there is a lot of concerns by other Member States. If the criteria to join the you has actually been met at what else needs to be done. One of the big concerns of course, is battling corruption. So what is centrally has been passed that you are referring to and how can you crane . I assure you Member States that they are indeed ready to meet the criteria to well, 1st of all, disagree with the statement thats ukraine is so corrupt that it cannot be a member of the issue. Ukraine again, has been making significant progress on this path. And there are reasons to believe that the reports of the assessments have you kind of progress on the past of complying with 7 that your commission can smell it. This will be positive for which means that the progress we have been making is consistent with our commitments and consistent with the, with the requirements thats a, thats a crane, has some committed to, to comply with a. We also believe that ukraine is currently much more transparent than many european Member States. The peer can countries that are members of the your can union the package to the legislation that was recently passed and be bringing. Paula once again brings the crane closer to you by closing some of the loopholes, corruption loopholes. Its also a opens declaration as the declarations of officials, severe crane public. And this is due to the Civil Society as pressure. And so, and the do the work of the civil side to whether your premium government that became possible and its a significant achievement. The Political Party reporting is now public and theres a lot, a lot of progress on the anti oligarch causation front. I can uh, i can say with confidence, thoughts of the, all the guards thats have been influencing ukraines policy making an economic relations until recently have been removed from these processes. And this is, this is the progress that were very proud of. Peter, um, from the kind of talk that weve been hearing from brussels, it almost makes it sound like ukraines membership is a done deal. I want to ask you why that is the case. And i also wanna ask you, what are you members, member leaders saying privately about all this, whats being discuss behind the scenes as well . If you, if you listen to chevrolet, michelle, we, whos the chairman of the European Council of number of states. He mentioned the dates, i think it was 2013 for you creating to, to enter right now. I mean, this is merely expressing hope, you know, theres no consensus whatsoever about dates and so behind the scenes and countries or splits they, they, uh, you know, they also have to reckon with electro. Its that, or lets say less than enthusiastic about welcoming any country. The west of balkans are come to mind. So certainly a country that is coordinating as war with, with, with russia. But i mean, those are realities, of course. And its good to see in the news that people have to step down over a corruption scandals in ukraine. I think that the typically that means that something is done about it. So lets be positive here. Maybe the war, mostly war brings out only negative things, but perhaps in this case it may sort of send the electro shock to, to the ukranian system and maybe, uh, supports those people that want a genuine reform a. So i think its important to remain up to mistake. Theres definitely great opportunities for your crane. But um, yeah, as i mentioned behind the scenes, the improvements are mostly working out on giving you creating some kind of comforts. I dont think we can expect any, any hearts commitments, any heart promises, but likely is thats the are paying commission will be the most, lets say, friendly to ukraine in this respect. But just like its very friendly towards the west and welcomes and it will be the number of states that the ultimately will need to do the dirty work and, and say despite everything, no, youre not ready yet. Mm. Daniela. Since a full you membership is not an easy process to undertake even under the best of circumstances. Are there potentially any other options that have been discussed by you members . Perhaps another type of roadmap uh, something that could maybe lead to a gradual integration of ukraine into the you. Well if we restore angels starting seen it up to the road map that for example, the western ball comes as a leading and how still leading like these subsidization an Association Process or maybe theyd be able to enter them all the probably um his oh is that also true that to an inquiry, no as being included in the, in the or be a name for the police seem to boss to retrieve. I obviously produce less outcomes that were expected and pulled up. Defense was to gradually build a stronger relationship with this comfortably. Those countries, uh, and so the defense east that among these big communities of neighbors on the phone countries were actually interested in, uh, getting closer to you and ukraine is, uh, um, for sure. One of this, uh, a role model can obviously be considered the, it can be, it is one of the, the, lets say the police are going to come out, take solutions that are usually conceded because it is gradual. He takes more time. And in the meantime, many issues can be also managed to um, but i, frankly speaking, i dont think that you crannies interested into these kinds of roadmap because of all that i was saying is a stays necessary to, to be foster from the point of view of ukraine sold and hes a kind of, hes kind of solution wouldnt be offered. Im not sure that it wouldnt be very much welcome. Bye bye. You cranium privacy, then probably it is one of the possible solution. They probably the better than the the, the long starting process all the phones. But well take more and more time. But again, in the thoughts of deep romantic um, solution which does seem to solve. But every thing good ken, just to manage things in the initial term, is elaina. Let me ask you about what daniella was saying. Um, do you think that ukraine would accept another type of roadmap or more gradual using into membership of e u because there have been ukranian officials who have said that they would not accept the 2nd tier as they see it. Membership that they want to be full members of the you and they want that to happen as expeditiously as possible. I yes, i believe your client will not accept this option. We really have no time to waste of you. Membership is absolutely necessary, as soon as possible for many reasons. First of all, it would speed up and enhance ukraines post for recovery. It volt, assessed the country in dealing with the aftermath of russian genocide and russian mass destruction of the country that has been going on for one and a half year. Your membership would also bring ukraine closer to the cutting edge technologies. Such would make recovery more Cost Effective and speedy. It would give us access to investments about what again, enhanced the countries prospects for recovery and development. More over in the conditions when the u. S. Government has in crisis when the supports for ukraine from the us side is largely threatens and we have no clarity as to what will, what will happen to us uh, policy in terms of supporting ukraine. It is very critical to have the European Countries to have that you take the lead in this process. We need your brain to be as close to the european allies as possible at the moment. But, but i want to emphasize that to ukraine brings so much to the table that its, its value the value of its membership and the you is much greater than and you complexity of succession process. And while the, your, for your be struggling with your skeptical moods within the you, ukraine demonstrates 9 to 2 percent of of supports Popular Support for the countries membership. And its much higher than in many of the european members in a you members, the ukraine principal, the table, as you mentioned, competitive business. It brings to the table, the experience of building a strong democratic infrastructure, Democratic Institutions in the time for doing the war. All of his experience can and should be utilized by other you members states daniella, you heard elena, theyre talking about what she says of the advantages that ukraine bring to you as a potential member. I want to ask you from your vantage point. What leverage does ukraine have when it comes to this process with the you and obtaining membership down the line . Yeah, so sure. I mean, if we analyze things, so from the Political Science perspective, and lets say on this lisa in terms of costs and benefits and considerations, obviously a ukraine that needs to eat. So its bringing a lot of things, a lot of benefits in to on the table because for sure its, its funny and relevant country from a 4 digit point of view, from a Security Point of view. Its a that this would expand of the, the, the border of the border, felt that you will be a new and young and, and of course a few of them mentioned for my dad. We got to a point of view and to also add the referral fee if you crane a. So for bringing many benefits to the you, but i get i making that coffee, the restaurant, golf and benefits also calls for shouldnt be conceded. And from what i see and from what i perceive looking get um, commend the states but for months in europe. Um, does this benefits they up to see about the sense of call it go for is a, is its too high for many accounts that you could offer some countries that are currently managing the most simple thing. So, i mean, i personally speaking and obviously im expressing my own personal views, obviously. And i would be optimistic and say that to ukraine is im closer to the you then we can expect. But what we see is the heavy burden of political political wielding nestled states and Member States to do something in the betty betty challenging. Peter, you heard the danielle there, talk about the costs of all this. And i wanted to ask you about that. If you crane were to join the you with this would come at a massive cost just how much of a financial burden would that constitute for e u. Member states as well the, the Financial Times run some simulations and the what the note notes of us know the know to where the thing there is thats a little of your pin number states. What starting from next receivers into nets contributors to the European Union budgets . So you can imagine thats not exactly uh, going to play. And as an arguments in favor also that you create and on top of that screen is a very big country. So it will have a little political weight in the context of you decision making. Now on at least the 1st thing can be sol worth of easily at the moment the sort of the mass of transfers that we see within European Union are not working very well on these agricultural transfers. A cohesion funds, theres a lot of corruption, its, its hands so it ends up in the, in the hands, off of the organized crime of all the guards. Any economic study is actually quite negative about its effects. Also the same is true for as i mentioned, agricultural subsidies. So maybe if you credit with answer this would be a great opportunity to, to get rid of most of these transfers. And thats to uh, to have the, are paying to have the European Union focused on that score business, which is the single markets. And there, this is really a win win for ukraine and, and the currents members, members of to you because you market which increase the loss of peter you were talking about some of the knock on effects of all this for a Member States. And i want to ask you more specifically about the issue of agriculture. If you bring in a huge agricultural power house like youre creating to the you, i want to ask how severe the consequences would be. For farmers in other Member States, would those farmers have to eventually accept much lower payments subsidies. I mean, how would that play out as well, if you let me decide what i would do to cope with this, it is in the 1st place, scrap a little of these payments. You know, farmers are perfectly capable of in operating in a Dynamic Market with all the subsidies until done central planning. But then secondly, if you no longer get farmers all that money, you have to give them tax relief. Or you have to give them a regulatory relief. And this is probably also good needed because at the moment to be already in the last 1015 years. And we heard little can complaints from the Agricultural Sector in europe. Thats new. Great. And hows the level of access already to the markets . But thats the u rules. Were not always uh, well implemented there. Now of course, nice you regulations are very important, some very complicated for farming companies. So perhaps if you crane with the answer and this would also sort of some sort of has an opportunity to deregulate the farming sector, which again would be, wouldnt win both for ukraine and farmers and to their account of parts in the current you 27. 00 elena we only have about a minute and a half left. I want to ask you about just how critical you membership is for ukraine. Im asking that because you heard about the concerns of other your Member States about what it would do, whether it comes to the financial burden. Other issues at hand, how much concern is there a new crane that all of those can that all of that could really hamper this proceeding . I would 1st of all like to come back on the costs of no question. First of all, on the west spends billions of text you roll some dollars on supports and ukraine, while nearly 350000000000. 00 euros are currently frozen and stored in the west in terms of russian assets that have been frozen in the 1st days of the war. Our partners or your Team Partners should find a way you should develop the go mechanisms to channel these freshman assets into supports and ukraine, and best full release. Significant resources that are necessary for ensure and your friends. Membership and ukraine. Critical needs your membership. Now as i said, it will increase, itll enhance the countrys recovery at full speed out the reform process. It for a brand new crane, closer to the european market, to the technologists and everything we need to, to build the country and you and to not just for coverage, but to develop it into a strong democratic state. All right, well we have run out of time, so were going to have to leave the conversation there. Thanks so much to all of our guest island alana pro panko peter clipping and daniella river. And thank you for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website. Ill just share a. Com, and prefer the discussion go to our Facebook Page and thats facebook dot com, forward slash age and side story. You can also during the conversation on x, formerly known as twitter or handle is add a j inside story from him. How much is human a whole team here, bye for now, the the to the 30 years of, of the assigned all just the real world. Tell us the 2 part story norwegian and the oldest little call, but us to lose the government of norway warrants remarkable role in nurturing this again. The secret negotiations and why its promising peace as remain unfulfilled is strong decided the tone of the negotiations. Nobody could show said go home the trucks and was little oh no, just the last year of how to start experienced one of the worst floods in the countrys history venue. Rule communities are still waiting for help. Hundreds of people on the outskirts of the city of may have had been living under open skies for a year in last years floods. This road behind me, those fields, the entire area that stretches in this direction was completely submerged. Many of the homes and buildings that were destroyed are still rubble. And parts of this district had started the flood once again the. So im slowly back to boeing, doha, with a look at all main stories on al jazeera us President Joe Biden has approved the construction of a new section of border wall in southern texas. The announcement was made as the us secretary of state and other high level officials. How talks in mexico city, mexicos president has criticized the move as a step backwards. Biden was asks, doing immediate briefing in the oval office whether his position on board a wall intact change is what he had to order was the board when he was appropriated from the board