Transcripts For ALJAZ The 20240704

If an attack were to bonds are taken against us, it will not be the welcome to park. Some people seem to think g r i are you from here that are in addition is not to confiscate power. I also reaffirm already and is to engage in any dialogue as long as it takes into account the orientations desired by the proud and resilient people of new share. Here some 55000 residence in western canada hoping falls to evacuate the homes as 2 separate 15 inch place the firefighters are using at the time because of the helicopters to bottle. The yellow, 95 and northwest in territories, and the mcdougal fine in British Columbia on the white island of bali, such and recovery teams are continuing the grading task of finding the remains of wild 5 victims crews in washington state. And california are using could of the dogs to search for hundreds of people who were still missing. After wall fives, raised much of the Historic Town of lying to the reins of at least 114. 00 people have been found, say, fall and investigation is underway. How much spot the us be for while so i was in the us in a century big search area. Devastating fire. Ive not seen anything like this in my entire 30 years and the fire service and been just some pretty significant incidents. The intensity population density. All those things combine ecuadorian, preparing to vote and sundays general elections under the shadow of violence and dissemination of a president ial candidate. The army has been deployed to deliver election materials to polling stations to his right ease of being killed in the shooting of the occupied westbank. It happened to the palestinian town of what uh, just south of novels. The 2 men aged 60 and 30. What talk is it while they were inside a car wash is body forces setup by book searching for the assailant. The abraham possible from bethlehem, as according to palestinians. They say that these ready forces are reading different towns and villages close to us. A lot of we are the shooting i tag that has to do. Now. Weve also been seeing a lot of palestinians suck. Ive checked points because these rigs have closed. So many check points that theyre viewed when theyre and manned by is really forces. We know that more as were editing and for some minutes have been sent to the area causing a lot of traffic. But also most of the are usually what happens after certain shooting attacks by palestinians is that these really set, there is attack villages, home, people. So theres a lot of warnings, lets say, amongst palestinians, if you dont have to move and go on, the roads dont do so because the fearing subtler retaliation, Ukraines Interior Ministry says at least 7 people have been killed and 144 injured in the russian beside the technical, the Northern City of china, he, president them is the last case. As we miss, i loved it in one of the city central squares. That meeting is believed to be taking place at the same time, which included business and community representatives. So we will do receipt in the there was a loud explosion. Glass stones and dust fell on me and i got up, went out and saw a lot of people covered in blood. I saw a baby covered in blood too. We started helping people caring people in carrying them out. When everything come down, i went out to the square and saw that my car was completely damaged. To live in the us as edge in china to stop pressure against taiwan. The beijing is military carried out, drills, navy islands waters on site today, trying to size the naval exercises. Auburn responds to once it cools, collusion between separatists and the foreign forces. Taiwan has condemned the exercises. You follow these stories on a website, which is that the company is continues after the bottom line to stay with us. Just the hi, im Steve Clements and i have a question. Is the wild quest for advanced Artificial Intelligence . More like a suicide race for humanity . Lets get to the bottom line. The Science Fiction has been obsessed with this idea for decades. Robots and super Intelligent Computers take over our Decision Making powers. And then they and slave us. And we only realize whats going on when its way too late. Like when kiana reeves character in the matrix film figured out that he and all of humanity were basically just batteries for a huge a machine. Well is fiction becoming reality. Governments and big corporations are locked into frantic race to come up with more advanced applications for Artificial Intelligence to manage everything cheaper and more competently healthcare education even battlefields. In a way, Artificial Intelligence is the new arms race. Russian president vladimir, put in one said that the nation that leads in a i will be the ruler of the world. So is there an extra central risk to humans . And is it time to pause and take a step back to make sure these efforts are regulated and more guard rails are put in place to minimize those risks . My guest today says its definitely that time he is yon tell in one of the engineers behind hit programs like skype and cars off and now the founder of the center for the study of back to the central risk of cambridge university. Hes also co founder of the future of Life Institute that took the lead in calling for 6 months moratorium on a research yon. Its a real pleasure to have you with us today and i, and i just want to start 23 years ago. I read an article that was the cover of wired magazine by another technologist, they knew named bill joy. And the title of that is saying is, is, was why the future doesnt need us. That i would love to hear where we are in build choice predictions and what you think we need to be wary of as we, as we move into this new era of a i indeed uh, but theyre just like bill joyce. And even they can go in further, for example, out and touring, in 1951 said that the, uh, once i becomes a smarter than humans, wed like to lose control to it. And i think the correct position to take care is that a soon as we kind of drew it out, that way with the remain controlled, permanent controls for a long time. We showed the kind of take necessary questions precautions to make sure that either we remain on control or if you lose control of the things the future it was, itd be good for us. Now you have written about your concerns in this area, not being something that evolves tomorrow, but down the road as super intelligence really evolves and takes hold, that mankind may be less relevant to the equation. Can you explain to our audience, our la audience, what your concerns are about computer super intelligence . And so does that look like there was just recently a survey result i think by Organization Called you got that the for the normal. Well there are people on the streets, they actually have like pretty good. The patients, what could go wrong . And in some ways of other people in academia, intellectuals, they gonna have like, hybrid those dont think the problems on both the experts like your show of angel or different on the mentor, sofa of deep learning or the people in the streets. They understand that because like if you look at it, the reason why 2 months are like permanent control of this planet, not to funds, ease the stuff because we are more capable than they are. We dont want that isnt. They are not smart. We are not stronger, but we know how to do long term planning, etc. I know we are we species we are in the race to yield that advantage to machines, which of us going to think patients are cool . The people indicate is not a good idea. Now you are involved with the founding of a number of institutes that are fascinating. One is the future, you know, looking at the study of x, a central risk and other as the future of Life Institute, which i find fascinating and lead with a letter signed by many of the worlds most important technologist today asking for a moratorium. And we start to see you on mosque whos been a guess on the board of your center, but also is a co signer that letter. I guess my question is, can, can pandora be put back in the box . Can, can, can a letter like that can a more, its for him, a call for a pause. Actually have an impact on the Global Development of a i today or things just proceeded to far at this point a. This is a come out that must abrasions to be helpful. For example, we have done it with the other to come, was it before wed eat a bon schuman clothing event, though with that and was it like this is very possible. And also things like buying websites such are like for they have been like less successful about them but still like the success of being known as it has all been 0. And the other thing is that again, the really experts talk experts in the field. They are concerned therefore like there isnt this sort of like, uh, voice the top of page 4 for poles. Know what they like this. Thats a very gonna mixed and white developing consensus about that need to take things slower. Im going to reason to take things slow already, so just make sure make sure that things go well. If we are just the at the mercy of market forces, we might not have the ability to steer things sufficiently. Yeah. And youre a wealthy guy and youve invested in a lot of these companies over the years and youve been a little investing in a high companies. So sort of interesting, on one hand, to see you warning about these dangers and yet youre a significant investor. You run with the crowd thats out there. That is bringing this new technology forward. How do you square that with yourself . Yeah, that is a good question on the bottom. My default way of looking at things is that like what these to come to factual that im displacing but you know, that was like if i didnt then west like who else will take my place . Them on the so thats like 11. 00 up roadside taken with Companies Like on topic for example, that the other kind of approach i take is that the, i just try not to be going to the decisive investor. Like for example, in the bind where i invested in 2011, if i remember correctly, i was just like very small shareholder. So i can help you with my investment, the ticket to be present at the company, and talk about the concerns of how that our the, how to part time. Now lets talk about this letter and present bidens meeting with 7 leading companies. I have them listed as amazon and profit. Google inflection met a microsoft and open a i. And so many people believe that this meeting in the white house, the president biden, with these executives talking about voluntary measures that they might take to think through the impact and dangers and risks of a i was precipitated by the future of Life Institutes. A letter now love to hear your thoughts on that, but i think more importantly is, do you believe that the 7 executives, these, these companies and present biden are sincere and what theyre doing . Or is this big performance acting like theyre doing something while behind the scenes theyre just chugging along as they were before . Uh so i dont think this is our fake performance. I mean, i do have some concerns that they like to many people to many people. This might be like very new topic. Uh so the, just the kind of, i dont exactly know what to think at this point, but like youre gonna like everyone has to know, learn about this new situation. And when it comes to a sort of taking credit. Uh for those things, i think like the most biggest credit really goes for google for about to open a i. I bought a leasing uh the 250. Uh because thats kind of like cost the cost the planet to gonna Pay Attention to a yeah. In a way that they didnt really pay before, but yes, i got that. So the kids are like basic deals that are open, that are going to, failing to dislike personal ground repair by open a i. And then like you turn the extinction statement by center for you safety, theres like 11. 00 sentence declaration that they i, extinction risk should be there at the same level of risk from neubauer and bio. You know, its, its an interesting conversation. I actually try to think, i try not to sensationalize when we have these conversations, but sometimes, you know, to overstate for a fact as part of learning and also thinking around the corner and trying to anticipate the unanticipated bull. If you will, things we havent thought about as part of the conversation and your future of Life Institute actually has been doing this. And they, theyve developed something i, ive best thing i call them is what they call them, are slaughtered bots. Can you tell us about slaughter bots and, and what, you know, just thinking in contemporary terms and capacity and drones, what could possibly happen um, more recently than people think with a slaughter box. Yes. So there are like 2 really big problems. One of the stuff for the ultimate, that of putting a yard in the military cause makes it very hard for your mind to control the subject or because ive got this point you are in a very afflicted, honest race. And like when you are in the last race, your you dont have much maneuvering girl when it comes to thinking about what, how do you approach this new technology . You just have to go when it came up like this are when it comes to digit code one digit 8. So thats like one big worry about the putting a military data problem and also to be seen it. The cyber a cyber warfare is that the us things become a toner most uh i thought to abuse and become sweetheart. Uh, so like the Natural Evolution uh for slot. But for the ultimate, that fully ultimate, the, the warfare asked to have like, for you to do with the slaughter bullets videos. So you start to look at this likes, small arms of the media draws drones. But like, anyone with money can produce and release without that there be ocean. So you might, we might, the just great thing to world war is no longer safe to be on the site. Because you might be chased down by itself. I swore themself of starbucks. One of the interesting things i reaction i had to the future of Life Institute letter, when you brought all of these major technologist to call for more toy. Im is, i wonder how does that compete that consortium compete if china is not involved or, or is china involved, is there an opportunity for a truly global deal that were not thinking, you know enough about, how do you do that . If youve got one side thats gonna follow guard rails and guidelines and the other side that might not so im not an expert in china, but with that kind of a, i just want to point out that china already has uh, regulations in a way that us does not, and so, so in some ways us, hes gonna falling behind in that like regulation. Regulate the area. Uh so you even though he always was the father, i had them on us. Uh so uh and also this is a global problem. So like just like weve seen virtual warming, its not kind of the correct to assume the chinese ill just above the guys in the room. Like if theres a global problem, ive got, youll have to like get people together and discuss it in kind of with, with open cars rather than trying to are going to shift the blame to the other guys. It occurred to me reading a Goldman Sachs report that says, that extrapolating our estimates globally suggested generated a i could expose the equivalent of 300000000 full time jobs to automation in europe in the united states. And along this line, it just, it just made me think, are we going to look as, as a world has changed when one from farming and large families of kids that were farmers and helping their parents to a much smaller population in the world. When there are 4 more humans actually being employed. So uh, yeah, like if you are, you should pick the i dont want it. Ill tell you. I was just another technology that you can like for me to make the case that well isnt be worried about because i got the country it has. And then all the time being has been good for a few months, including employment. However, if you, if you take this analogy off like species, then its clear. But i think deduction of a smart, the species quite often does not go well for the, for the less advanced species was a fast name prominent another dimension. Here i read, you know, a met recently with barry diller and barry diller is started consortium to basically su ai operations. Thats great material. Intellectual property, the property of others that are particularly in the news business, a news industry and threatened these major lawsuits. And theres now this very interesting thing in the media and publishing world about Property Rights and whether or not guard rails that can limit how a learns are a smart thing to do. Have you thought about that at all . And what do you think the chances are that publishers or artists or people that create, can somehow get carve outs where they are not part of the world. I find it perhaps and i eat, but id love to hear from you. So perhaps as someone who was 20 years ago working on now to verify sharing Program Operations like take like strong stance on this issue. However, like one point that i think about this, that the or, or i suspect is that the issue with copyright is just going to be very temporary in some ways. It the more like a feature of the current generation of a i and thats like a, i would get smarter. They might just actually need less and less data and less and less cooperate that they dont do it. Were going to exhibit the same with the helps Even Stronger capabilities. And so i think in some ways that couple of people perhaps are fighting a good fight, but eventually tickets are going to be losing pipe. I mean, you did this. I mean its, you just mentioned, i mean, you are the, a king of this, you do this with cars on you, you know, about brought new tech, new technology and the skype. I mean, i think that, that, that is a very interesting tension out there. If, if you would kind of put yourself 20 years ago when you were doing a good, were there ways that the system could have slowed you down . And i ask this as someone, and when you are 25 years old, you are changing the world and not worried about these boundaries. Now youre 50 years old and youre saying, hey, we need guidelines and boundaries. Are you worried about the 25 year old version of you thats ignoring those guard rails and concerns today . That is a fascinating question. I kind of feel that i could if i was faced with like 20 year old myself. I good kind of like talk sense to him, but i think its uh and perhaps like deceptive thoughts because indeed uh like the one thing that i have for example, youve heard that from the 20 year old printer, old myself, is that the really hateful 3rd button so i think the just a tax on programmers that its just not a great thing to have. But the but like i definitely my view is about open source having become like more would all right, as i see that uh, potentially the open source, a ice cause actually be the source of catastrophic events. So, is resistance futile . I mean, i mean i, i guess you know what, how do i look at Technology Advancing so much and youve been such a big driver of this . And i do believe that we do make choices. Im glad you mentioned human cloning. What im interested in is how do we take the work that youre doing in the future of life and the future of the concerts for x, a central threats and give it scale so that it becomes more the norm and less of a boutique topic. I think the, its no time to, to really put forward some uh, early regulations at the very least to do something to test exercise and muscle off it technology or regulation. I mean, you test on some of that. I think more than the us test on but the, but like, specifically, im thinking about things like uh, making sure that data centers are certified, certified. So like if you want to train on a, i dont on the big guy. Expiring must have done in data centers. Big data centers, theyll say, doesnt this have to be certified . I think thats uh, kind of one of the steps. Perhaps even easier step what that seems to be a good a lot of consensus on is that a output should be labeled like nobody should be faced with a phone call or, or retail, or text and full thing to thinking that this came from human. That should be clear indications, but this is a i or but there are things like liability. So like if 5, for example, of facebook puts out open source a i on that full think about hands on something really got the stuff that comes as a result. That responsibility should go back to facebook and we have a survey that was done in 2019 and i guess 4000 people were asked that got hundreds and hundreds of responses, asking experts were actually working on these Technology Issues on whether machines would be vastly better than humans at all professions and at that time it said within 2 to 10 years or 2 years, it would be 10 percent within 30 years. It would be 60 percent. Where do you fall in this spectrum . Im just a very uncertain. I think there is like significant bump in probably in the next few years. Uh, just because uh like people have sort of like discovered the gold mine and like just the throwing more more compute more or more people more, more money. I mean. Okay. Uh, i just watched the uh, sonata, uh, testimony uh by a stroke or something. He said that the, that like those criteria are like about 1010000000000. 00 per month. Uh, being invested in a startups. Uh, like bucks like more than the asked by a science funding into us uh for the rest of the science. I definitely liked the credit. There is this a rush . Uh, so the cold rush happening in a uh, in uh, in a very distinct and minor when you compare the rest of taking off the funding crisis. Uh, installed the land on technology in general. So perhaps like this might actually going to precipitate uh, some southern capability, gaines, but im very concerned about if that doesnt happen, then a sofa bed sort of all sort of off the table again and, and kind of figure made them seem like how much more time we would have, im going to tell our audience, john, that you are the real yon, tell me, and youre not a deep fake. We havent conjured you to do all of this, but, you know, maybe some day we wouldnt be able to do that maybe illegally. Ive seen the face of tom cruise on tick tock and an event that said before where i work, ill put together, we did a did deep fake of barry diller this big, you know, media tight and he was not happy at all about it, but it was one of these things where is you kind of look at the conversions of a lot of different dimensions of, of how it changed. What do you think truth is actually in jeopardy . In some sense. Sure. But in some sense, not really. So there are a, the ultimate, uh, i think, uh like we have lived with the ability to produce kind of fake texts for a long time. And we have built things like a secure digital signatures. Uh like website, traffic encryption, things like that. The dealing with this would be the content we have been gonna use to trusting it. So that would be like a period during which we know by many people with default. Uh bye bye fake. It is. But uh, of course, if nothing, nothing worse would happen because of a i dont, i wouldnt pay that for it because the people that just are just, they dont stop demanding that kind of authentication of the sources. Asked on the dates, start the money loss that the if youre going to full, someone without generate that we do is that you should go to jail. Let me just ask you, finally, weve had a discussion. You and i about this before and that is about the fragility of democracy. And whether technology is worsening, the problem or enhancing democratic options down the road. We were, you know, im in a country right now. Were a former american president , just had his 4th indictment. Im not sure how well were exhibiting democracy today, but when you think about this, part of the question is might a, i get democracy better . I mean a, i could get everything but sure. I, i do think that there is this. Just like with the page that is going to make this table and the water is a head. And if, if its a it doesnt turn next thing. So i think we could potentially just uh, develop color measures to everything kind of kind of adjusted a new situation like that a bit, but previous powerful technology such as like internet or smartphones or cameras, every wire, etc. But yeah, my, my only go for is that the, like every new generation of a i was just present big or, and even larger problems. Single laira, terry, an hacker investor physicist beyond tell in founder of the center of the study of x, a central risk and co founder of the future of Life Institute. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you very much. So whats the bottom line . We all would love a i to help doctors diagnose our ailments, better or to protect us, lets say against fraud and identity theft. But those are just the toes and the door generative a i will eventually effect everything. And i mean everything, and there are significant human list dimensions to it. Were data and machines actually talk to each other. They learn from each other and they have all, without us. Some of us would like to buy a car that could drive itself. Thats great. But are you willing to live in a country that has an autonomously run government . Actually, when we look around, that doesnt look like a bad idea. But add to that leaf autonomous weapon systems or robotic killers, or cities that run themselves without any workers. And things start to look a bit more scary. We should be worried about the power of a handful of people who are making the Big Decisions on Artificial Intelligence today. And then we should be even more worried when a handful of people are gone and a i is making all those decisions by itself. And thats the bottom line, the a big calling, drunk chang, encrypted currency, disruptive technology, join with me and introducing a bill to outlaw crypto currency all the way through the federal financial system. With big country open source software, you can create or money without banks of elements Award Winning filmmaker toast and huffman looked at all sides of the complex crypto crypto. The queen looked james and the engineer on ocean sarah inspirational winning mechanics because we want to get to the largest number of young women and showed the entire nearing performers. 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