Transcripts For ALJAZ Inside 20240704

Welcome to the program. Im several then. Yea, theres been more violence on the streets of peru and protests against the government and president dina boulevard de demonstrators. What her to step down to view seemingly shared by many. Its a National Newspaper opinion poll, giving her a 12 percent popularity rating is to be believed. Rising prices the killing of dozens of demonstrators by troops and a growing wealth divide are all driving political instability ousted left as president. Pedro castillo remains in jail removed last december after trying to suspend congress, which is dominated by right wing parties. So, just how fragile is peruse, young democracy, and can this crisis be resolved . Well get to our guests in a moment. First though, this report from michael soon, sharif the testers and payroll have returned to the speech in large numbers to noon. The demands for preston dina blue update just took down the call. If this price is the demands for Better Living conditions that have gone onto the thing in the 2 decades since democratic who was best stored in the country, many of the protest as a supporters of loss. His predecessor federal tested and share a similar background with him. The indigenous for income from ruby pens mountainous regions and went up the because i was a peaceful mobilization to, to cover over the ministry. Liberty override to vote. The popular vote we won just as for over more than a 2 people who have been killed by this murderous government. Of do you know who the warranty they have guessed, stepped on us. The police have beaten us. They are miserable and abusive. They are shooting at our hips at our body. Locked who was appointed last year off to castillo, was removed from office and arrested following his attempt to dissolve congress and ruled by decree. Hed been accused of corruption and faced the potential impeachment on friday during an independent state speech in congress. Dana block. They addressed the demonstrate as demands for the new government or the elections. She called for reconciliation and also the apologies to the families of the 60 but hell be in can get in, protest this. Yeah. A big latimer. I meant the phone, which i dont know, i declared was great. So the tool victims of wonder, these are regressive. A result that no 11 so we deep, soul, full consider nation. I ask for forgiveness on behalf of the National State to the relatives of all the c, civilians, police, and military but, and get what they see is a lack of accountability is what youre driving. These professors will work, pays attention to remain in power until 2026 has also for the future public. And she says, she believes request congress to give an extra powers to come back on the less than fun of to months of protest. The government has promptly to restore the economy for the protest, as they see did determine to keep up the pressure to achieve that goals with consumption. C for insights, so all right, lets bring in all our guess. We have a great panel today and lima. Paula olga is a journalist to youve spent or career investigating and justice and human rights abuses globally, not just in peru, but you are joining us from lima today. On this in london, have you ever thought of, hey, an independent international analyst. Also a journalist and historian. And in washington, dc, jim, a rebirth, associate professor of Political Science and latin american studies at george mason university. You are joining us from washington. As i mentioned, a warm welcome to all of you. Look, the 1st question may be the hardest. I want to ask all of you just to see where you stand on this. What is the main reason for the dysfunction the level of dysfunction that we are seeing in peru now . And the reason i ask you, this is the country is onto its 6 president in 5 years. And the polling tells us the peruvians hate everything. And everyone, the president , congress, everything. All right, so lets start with just one from all of you. The top reason for this dysfunction folder. Well, i see the main message here in the mouse, in the method of payment of precedent. Dino and washer was we have space time to say, im close to 2026 and she fresh uh no secondary p by hes supported by a 9 percent out from susan benson alliance between castell, smarty and bloody names are wrong. The stream left on the stream, right. And, and which is based on an, i mean most, you see, i mean most of you stallworth the police because little which is not even a stream, right. Or, nor is to never use. No, they do as they come. Yeah. It is because yeah, it is. Uh, they the biggest sense for humor, right. They stand for your age, ice trends, institution. And they the stream for the strength name across the i. Now they dont, we dont have any of that. We have a, a, a low, a bigger, bigger validation of our democracy and east brooke. Cake of commodity, say that even just had her own. And you know, a lot of it says that they were state and they will fight and which we are, they are arms to same power on to dont you send a or is it for, do we have the one the one in the nation. Right . Yes. All right, so for you, it comes the, the paralysis and the dysfunction comes from a clash of different political interests. Um, alright, lets move on to have you. What about you . I agree, i agree with bona this on jolla line is in the front left on for right, cuz i love congress to see beyond debates where people wanted him to quick that when boardwalk just started head monday, did you know, does he ever asked to present that to you was, i was did she send a proposal for the elections . The congress rejected that they were talking about the end of this year or early next year. Con report was rejected that. And then the funding to stay on to july 2026, which is when there monday, its so difficult to keep up with us. Youll put the se likely hes about what the excuse me or the elections hes on. The lines has made a posted for congress, be completed in the public prices, improve couple numbers from, from this opinion poll, and they do this monthly. These are the latest ones from july, 80 percent of peruvians want early elections. Thats one thing. 77 percent of peruvians or calling for the shut down congress. Now the approval and i should say, disapproval rating of the president , 82 percent. I mean those numbers are just stunning. And heres the last one to set us off in this conversation. Nearly half of the population believes that peru is not a democracy. 49 percent. All right, javier continue a theory. So would you be a piece of democracy because the Vice President to go over when the president before the president , cuz he wanted to set up a cool, but hes no democracy. When did the martial people offered the elections . Because the new government deal will talk to monday, the people that are watching books in doubt, the democratic credentials of pressure to more likely not only that, they protest web great have you reprice, as was mentioned in, in your report of the beginning of the, of these programs, theres more of them. 40 people died, 150 people died and even not only human rights watch. And im just due to national the, into American Commission with human rights to be precise. The, you know, the government, not only that on the 25th of july, a group of 15 us send that was from the democratic party, sent a letter to the uh, to the success of the state on to the bank and talking about quote, wed like to express always serious concern, so were going to switch my wife and well proceed of going through is planning on that. Im not going to read it too because they speak and then not show what theyve expressed consent. Theres a problem here. They seem to be a completely different was the president and congress of the people during the month, so certainly rated on the 28th of july that traditionally frustrated right to for independence. They improved destination. What would be my cup of coffee you peruse where me lead . Definitely quote. You say that my quote, they dont seem to realize that people exist. Stop the bunch. I think you took away the boss between each of the class. The crow dont. So were talking about people leaving the only 100 hop congress on the executive of the president in one of the people youve been in a completely different part of the work that creates a divorce between the hours. All right, have you, i asked you for one reason you gave me 2 or 3, but i but your points are well taken, brutal repression of protest is certainly one big reason for the dysfunction in peru. And you agreed with paula. But what you called in on holy alliance, the far right far left interest that are actually working together to keep themselves according to what you both said to keep themselves in power against the will of the people. Jo marie, thank you for your patience in your view. Number one reason for dysfunction in peru and thanks for having me. And i just want to say i, i agree with whats been said so far. But id like to take a broader view because your question is asking about the last 6 years of this constant turnover in peru, 6 president s, the last 6 years, tremendous instability, hughes discontents. And theres one thing thats constant from 2016 when this instability really took hold of the country and today, and that is k go for g. Maury and her on bridles. Ambition for power. In 2016, she lost the elections to present to them the person who she ran against pay the bottle kuchinski. And she refused to acknowledge her defeat. And she used her majority in congress to do everything in her power to have him removed from office, which they achieved. They did the same thing to the following president , the president , after that one custody was elected in 2021. They actually refused to acknowledge his admittedly narrow victory over her 3rd attempts to run for office and cook cried fraud without producing any evidence whatsoever. And clearly she is and who block is very much behind the block. They government and they are seeing very clearly that this is their path finally to power. And so i think its important to understand the unbridled how the unbridled ambition of kickoff would you, maury and her political block in the disable ization, approve of fragile democracy is. So youre saying the impeachment of not the current, but the former president mr. Castillo was impeached in december late last year. That impeachment is on account of miss lucy, maurice Building Block in congress. It was a broader right wing Building Block, but yes, cagles would you Maurice Block was a central piece of that. Absolutely. And it should be noted that from the beginning, right, i mentioned that they refused to acknowledge his, his victory from in the 1st place. And they tried persistently to have him removed from what he was permanently attacked and undermined from the congress in his right wing coalition. Led by uh, take a few more his party um and they achieve their goal. I mean he, he did try that. Um, uh, dissolve congress which was unconstitutional and so he needed to be removed at that point. But the whole time he was in office, they were trying to remove him and undermine his ability to govern which, which they did effectively. So theres, theres a double double element there. Going on, joe murray. Since youre telling us to look in the rear view mirror for some of the deeper causes of this, remind us of the food you more he dentist do you because you mentioned keiko food. You more before that there was her father who was also a president who has since been jail for human rights abuses for corruption. Maybe tell us what role the food you mores are playing in what were seeing today, a source. So take ahold you more. His father and the food you maury was elected president in 1990. But within a year or so of his presidency, he carried out the original self who he shut down congress and ruled by the crew with the support of the armed forces. Human Rights Violations were massive and systematic under his government. The fragile democracy that prove had at that time was systematically dismantled. And authoritarian system was put in place in which there was massive, unbridled corruption. And one of the reasons hes in jail is because of corruption, but hes also in jail because of the mass of human rights abuses that were committed during his regime. His daughter cagle was his by, uh, his um, 1st lady for the last 8 or so years of his government after he divorced his wife. So she had a direct role in his government and it was after adopted. Would you, maureen, was arrested, prosecuted in jail for human rights abuses the her political career really took off. Shed been a 7th, shes been a Congress Person before that, but she made a career out of freeing her father from jail. And in the meantime, shes built a huge political machine. She is currently facing herself, accusations of money laundering, and corruption, or waiting for it for the trial to actually start um, but her Party Remains a lot of power in congress and they get a lot of support from the business. The leads because of their support of proves neo liberal. Busy economic model. Okay, paula, back to you. The current president s any president in this context, given everything that weve explained would need to wipe the slate clean and dena boulevard. They address the nation for friday. And she said, look, you need to, i need more time. We need a national die logs previously prior to that when she came into power when she was sworn and she had promised to form a unity government. So she is on paper saying the right things, national dialogue, unity, government give us some time. And she also did tries to give the people what they wanted, which was early elections on paper. That all seems to make sense. Yes. But he says, i want dialogue. I want to crush dimensions in 2 months. But in the other hand, he says, no, we each state until 2026. And i do see the police are a, are a facing with the producer of the police in video is now you saw, right . Shes police police. Thats a child with the woman, and they are very, very cash to, to every, every professor who using the street, they dont care if you sign your lease a mom or a man. And hes very sad for, for us because sleep very saw on the, the says it, these democrats see, shes not the democracy anymore. I need to know where you are to say. I see its like a puppet of all their interns in the national elapses speech. There was no interest in the sending to the demand for the federal. Were investigating that for the name 9 there during the process. But the most important scene for me is that philosophy thats left behind. Shes buying it a womans right and to the horny eliah on each box, you know, as for woman human rights, it because the streams of the right from the left one to govern on the 2. So some 30 feet. And that is, that is really, really sharp because a, we are watching how democracy is the where they do it every day, every day. Because now the people are seeing the industry and we know what worked it. And then, and then once to see whats happened on this tree, whos to blame . Because we need to spend a little bit of time on this post to blame for the dozens of people who have been killed in the protest. Javier is this should, should the blame the lady at the door of the current president deano boulevard a is a deeper than that. Is it before her or is it castillo, who. C of the buck stops of the precedent. Black, she authorize the suppression, she approved, but she did not condemned it. He only apologize and save, im sorry, on the 28th of july because of the pressure those recently under this, but they bought the stuff, stuff on the police been to abuse under many, many testimonies over the uses committed by the police of things you know, simple test system, a peaceful protest is this, the buck stops on the ha, shes the personal through. Shes the one hard to just refresh it is just the one who let them get away with it. Do you have not investigated or do any kind of investigation of just fine issues of human rights to ask for forgiveness as being particularly shonell if you ask me because theres no what im punish those why were supposed to be brutal repression as the japanese think the National Safety motorized watched its hydrogen to excuse me. So in douglas big, she is responsible for these. Nothing has been done to investigate you. Some uses tv Services Fund on cheese. Were supposed to find the fact that people who think that when she finishes the presidency, she will have to be indicted on flight for the cameras as president for you moving forward, presenting him already. Well, by the way, i would like to mention something very briefly. 7 so officially threw up the names like paypal corruption and human rights violation. Seek seek one, have been committed suicide under garcia that committed suicide before peoples arrested. So it is a social, it says milton political system improved on police. Even in this we think hes called to powers to abuse. Or, you know, there are full retreat for the consequences the to be seen and provide them out for marie, you look at the boulevard days biography, and you think she actually could be very well positioned to unite the country. She speaks catch where she is not from the Business Elite in lima. Shes from the provinces, she ran on this platform of, you know, a bit of castillo being a man of the people and redistributing wealth to the marginalized, disenfranchised communities. And yet ive now heard twice in this conversation. Shes a puppet. As i understand that reading between the lines puppet for the the right wing coalition, the controls congress. Do you agree with that . Its absolutely 100 percent. And i think thats one of the reasons that people are so angry with her because she was elected alonzo. Id say that across to you on a, on a Campaign Promise of redistribution of addressing the countries longstanding, any quality and racial discrimination. And shes done absolutely the opposite. She came to power with the blessing of the right Wing Alliance and congress. And she governs today thanks to their support. Theyre virtually the only people that support her, aside from the very wealthy business men and women and in peru. And so i think thats one of the main reasons why theres so much anger towards her. Its not only because of the repression of the protests, which is another element, is also the fact that she is seen as essentially a betraying um, the thing that brought her to power, right . The promises that brought her to power and essentially giving essentially free reign to this right Wing Alliance, not only to govern but to destroy peruse democracy. And i think its important to highlight this that in the past 7 months, under the number of the work is government, the congress has engaged in a series of actions that have we can peruse rules last week. And its Democratic Institutions and really eviscerated the balance of powers which is essential to any democracy. I can give you specific examples of that. But i think its important to understand. Its not just that shes ruling side by side with this right Wing Alliance, but this right Wing Alliance is literally dismantling. Perused democracy before our very eyes. And when the either in the are in your initial segment, there was a protest. Her who said, you know, were here demanding democracy, were here demanding respect for our vote. Were these, this is the politically is or pro democracy protests. People are upset that this ruling click has basically taken hold of their institutions and are destroying it. And a lot of whats behind all this are corrupt interest. All right, so its pretty clear from what youve all said, that congress is a major issue here. Of course the president matters, but president is one person. Congress is a system. And paula, you started our conversation, in fact, by saying that congress currently is controlled by people, want to keep themselves in power against the will of the people. How does that . How does that get changed . The next selections for the moment are in 2026. So 3 years from now, and i know thats at the heart of this political battle protest as want early elections for the moment. Those are not happening. Multiple bills have been put the congress by the way, to get those early elections. Those bills have not passed. So how do you go about, i suppose fixing peruse broken system then if the people who are supposed to fix it, the lawmakers are not going to change the laws on the books. Well, its ha, ha, ha, im here because we dont have a strand. If somebody can find on now the, the congress as germonti says they are they then the, the right im the last week a to get there. Weve never loved it to is changing power back to the bigger they them aggressive thinking. Oh there you see through sean, on those, my office in the garage institution. It is the good one that youre not on the one to keep on. We dont have a lot of time left heavier. Im wondering this conversation, i think has shown light on the fact that the, this, the system is blocked. That there are vested interest. That essentially what youre all telling us want to prevent peruvians from choosing who they want and from fundamentally changing the country. Thats a recipe for disaster. Dozens of people have already been killed. Where do you see . How do you see this ending 5 year the through doesnt have a making process for candidates. They should be as independent street making a profit for candidates any because the, the normal house mortgage should be, you know, for a candidate not be allowed to start. Thats a big thing because the whole, the cases, the Human Resources talked about in terms of corruption on the person of, of using all that happened before these people were linked to it to close people who are the people move near the people being facing the region where they could be elected us members of color. So this would be an independent making process. If we start, no doubt come because we adult you bob, grow just on the phone with old press. You then or a new will to post. The main thing that we have to talk because we dont have that kind of process in through, thats the only way to make sure that people who go to congress of people what go to represent those people to represent the cost depos properly and the other contract used to follow the top so the comments at the bottom is very polarized, although weve talked about this on the, for the a nice be too far. But there is some problem. Right . But um, the pony sending, if these people are trying to protect themselves from okay, multiple cases, multiple people to get enough price. I know that. So this should be a becky process to make sure that the web at both departments will reset the company that has a clean bill health political. So to make sure that the represented the secrecy, probably a better or vetting process as a potential fix or to, to start cleaning up the political system just before we wrap this up, jewelry, any final words on, on how this ends and also something i was wondering listening to javier, is there somebody is there a name, a person of personality that has enough cloud to perhaps pull the country back . Thats a really good question. So im, i think i just wanna, you know, i think that how do you like, do you have a budding process is essential, but we still have this problem of this coalition that is not willing to give a powder power. And i think are actually trying to get up to create a system in which they perpetuate themselves in power, right . So what i see in the immediate future is more protest, more police violence, more chaos and more instability. Their governments like my government, the united states, which is claiming to support democracy and human rights improved by supporting the government. And what theyre doing is exactly the opposite. What, who needs now or early elections to start . A new process, a new set of leaders and new rules like have here is suggesting to make sure that people who are not criminals, not corrupt, are the ones holding the highest honors of the land. That jewelry, i really appreciate your insights, heavier paula, all of you. Thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your perspective with us. And thank you for watching the program. Once again, any time by visiting our website, alpha 0 dot com and for further discussion to go to our facebook page, thats facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. You can also join the conversation on twitter or handle at a j inside story. For me, several venue in the entire team here in doha. 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In the final episode of the series, which is their explorers, how the bits of fights for the french empire still resonates today. Imagine tis french t colonization on outages era. When the news breaks, the story of this village is the same as many of us spread across the Eastern Front line. No electricity, no running water. When people need to be heard. And the story needs to be told this children are unable to go outside. Inside is extreme. You help with exclusive interviews and in depth reports, most people expect that its be worked out all together by now. Ill just see right. Has teams on the ground to bring you more Award Winning document trees and life news. The hello, im down, jordan doha, with the cooking mind at the top stories here now to 0. At least 44 people have been killed in a suicide bombing at a political rally north west pakistan. It happened to the but your district bordering of dentist on more than 200 others have been going to the, i dont know how and what exactly happened. I just saw a spock into the big bang. I was sitting close to the stage and the leadership was in the of the stage. After the blast eyesore, hundreds of people lying on the ground and people started firing in the air a loss of firing. First we shifted our leadership from the saying, this is what happened