latest from anchorage in alaska is this a frank exchange of views or is this the beginning of an even worse spot between the u.s. and china that's not clear that will depend what's going on now behind closed doors but there were very tough words you heard from the secretary of state of the u.s. criticism of choi criticism of what china describes as its own internal affairs then the joint hit back saying there are different forms of to walk receive us as a form of democracy china has its own form of democracy several european countries including germany and france are resuming astra zeneca vaccinations off of the continent top medical regulators said the doses are safe and effective european medicines agency believes the benefits of receiving the job far outweigh the potential risks of blood clots. a rapid surge in corona virus infections is forcing chile to put half of its population into lockdown more than 6000 new cases were reported in its latest daily report deaths have reached their highest number since june and it's all happening despite a quarter of the population having received at least one dose of the vaccine senior members of the taliban and of gonna stans government have been meeting in moscow in an effort to restart stalled peace negotiations russia the us china and pakistan are calling on the warring sides to observe an immediate cease fire the talks in moscow have been happening after earlier to go. and stalled. protesters have held a mass rally in the syrian city of that they chanted and some government slogans and flew the syrian opposition flag to mark 10 years since the beginning of the uprising against the rule of president. those are the headlines on al-jazeera will have more news coming up at the top of the hour that's right after inside story about. well vaccine passports revive tourism europe unveils a digital pass to allow 5 those protected from cope with 19 to travel freely but the world health organization is against it as most people haven't been immunized so is the idea too premature this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program i'm. most of us haven't been able to travel for the past year because of the pandemic but with 1000 vaccines rolling out some governments are looking to welcome taurus again for summer the european union hopes to have a digital green pass ready by june this would allow people who've been vaccinated tested negative or recovered from cope with 19 to travel more freely within the e.u. bloc countries like austria want this to be in place as early as next month but the world health organization says it's too early given the slow pace of vaccination in the e.u. dominic kane reports from berlin. almost sunny parisienne morning partly joe but walks his dog has recently been vaccinated and has the badge to prove it but he would welcome something more official. covered $900.00 health pass would allow us to travel to get back a little bit of freedom by june those wishes will be a reality because the european commission plans a digital green pass which all e.u. residents would have on a smartphone proving they have either been vaccinated recently recovered from covert or had a negative test with this digital certificate we aim to help member states reinstate the freedom of movement in a safe responsible and trusted manner but the sum e.u. leaders that goes neither far nor fast enough we want to but we don't want to wait for implementation by the robber will take the 1st steps on the national level many in the tourism industry welcome the e.u. proposal as a. vaccine certificate is essential to make travel easier and it's important that it's digital because only a digital certificate makes it easier to check in at airports it's no good if there's big queues and lots of bits of paper on the flipside the world health organization is urging caution the requirement for certification of vaccination as a requirement for international travel is not justified as rexx a nation is not widely enough vailable and is in equitably distributed throughout the world having a certificate on a smartphone is clearly going to transform the way people travel across the e.u. but in order to work as a proof of vaccination the person must 1st have been vaccinated and so far at least comparatively few europeans have been dominic claim al-jazeera. all right let's bring in our guests in athens all rick wagner professor. sir for european studies at stanford university in berlin and london alex mature us aviation and travel analyst and columnist at travel at gulf times and in lancaster mohammed an ear for ologist and lecturer in biomedicine at lancaster university welcome to the program well rick let me start with you today at a time when there is still no scientific consensus on the extent to which vaccinations prevent the transmission of the virus is this plan by the european commission irresponsible. i would not science irresponsible i think it is an important. symbolic gesture 'd by the european commission that massive clear fire in the way they were communicating they were all in the way they were discussing and negotiating. contracts with the different producers of exene and the bottom line was you don't went off if you don't do it quickly enough you know you react and i think this is a symbolic step to save no we try to go over to a box to address everything that's in front of us and this is just kind of a step but it's certainly not the ultimate solution to get out of this mohamed from your vantage point as a veralyn just at this stage in the pandemic would you say that these certificates are a good idea. well homan the important thing is that we're going to talk to both of them maxine transport most of the time it's been discussed i don't do a lot just ticks and personal independence bentley a thing only it's been discussed about a scientific perspective and let me explain the scientific backing behind the possible war to float the vaccines so when we talk about the e.u. perspective on to the next impossible to talk about 3 conditions 1st is somebody is that seen a change well then somebody is vaccinated we don't really have a solid data that that person would still be able to protect themselves from getting infection or transmitting the infection so it is not we certified that that person is fully protected the 2nd edition is being done somebody is in fact every covert well we do know that the inspections are coming really common and because of the new variants particularly the brazilian value it is me infecting people and particularly in the people who have been becoming from the inspection that and that the vaccine it didn't turn to fight he had been put in that somebody is negative for that a full 4 divide it's using standard test well then something. is tested negative it's meaningless because after one hour you can get in a fraction either entering into the. airport or sitting with somebody who have had serious infections when we look onto the scientific perspective at this stage the vaccine asked for it doesn't make any sense at all until we have a flu control on disinfection and diseases and that makes situation not in the condemning situation at that point lax in passport would have a value alex from what you've heard do you believe that these certificates will actually be up and running and ready in time to salvage the european summer tourism season. well from an aviation perspective the digital health past was so known as the vaccine passport is widely considered inevitable it's something that airlines have been preparing for that stakeholders across the aviation sector have been preparing for because at a very basic level they want to be able to have this harmonize ation where they can say to firms to organizations to countries and their respective health authorities this is the status of this individual whether or not they've been vaccinated whether they have recently tested negative or perhaps recently have recovered from covert 90 and this is how we can guarantee that information on a safe digital platform where the results perhaps not able to be manipulated in the way that they could be with false documents and we know that this is something that the industry has been preparing for for a very long time i mean why does society if we look away from aviation and travel for just one moment it's something that countries including qatar the very home of our jazeera have been using as part of that plan to be able to unlock so i think that it is inevitable and it is only natural that as this vaccine rollout at least in the rich countries begins to make good progress they are naturally looking to this next step where they can equally and fairly demonstrate to other countries this is the status of this individual and therefore can you allow them to enter your territory alric it's been a sluggish vaccine rollout so far in the e.u. but the use goal is to vaccinate 70 percent of its adult population by the end of june i believe is that a realistic goal at this stage is that achievable. well i kept i've become more and more a skeptic owen that your vote of 2 mistakes and they are heroes we heard so many years since the beginning of them demick that my doubts although germany was performing me last year pretty well. reduced you know when it comes to the distribution of sexy ins. that was introduced last year was also highlighted as a technological instrument that who make everything much easier and it simply doesn't work so announcing the true will at this time of the year and hoping to save the tourism season sounds quite ambitious how mad the world health organization has said that it has been working to create an international trusted framework for safe travel but that vaccinations should not be a condition shouldn't the e.u. be working more in tandem with the w.h.o. on these coded certificates and what kind of role ultimately from your perspective do you think the w.h.o. will play in all of this. yes absolutely i compute you know really because on. the continent will not work long with the one with the w.h.o. and also for other sectors stakeholders 5 years from forty's and it certainly is not a good number of i mean putting into the perspective we have only 10 to 15 percent of the people in the e.u. member states those out of executed and majority of them those are above 80 years old and those are the one direct channel the least so people who are more like to experiment and not vaccinated and having vaccine passport at this stage i don't really think that is going to help out any means or less than vaccine for all of these to the point we have also majority of people in the continent or protected or at least mexico to perfection is something that we have not decided alex said look to me like you were nodding along to some of what mohammed was saying so i wanted to see if you want to jump in i also want to ask you from your perspective aren't isn't the aviation industry going to have to work closely with the w.h.o. on all of this going forward so i was nodding because i was agreeing on the fact that i think what we have seen throughout this pandemic is lack of communication between states even states that belong to the same trade bloc like the european union for example we've seen this lack of harmonize ation and that's exactly what is required as we naturally look to this next phase you know i don't blame the european commission for working on assessing the viability of the digital vaccine possible because they know the importance of freedom of movement we're not just talking about summer holidays and actually i think that they should move away from the this goal of summer holidays and look for the long time look at how we're going to navigate a future of freedom of movement and the flying that we are used to running alongside covert 19 which we know will be part of the earth for many many years to come perhaps even forever i think we need that in one side on the other side there is that quote isn't there which is that nobody is safe until everyone is. and the digital vaccine possible potentially has a different role to play for countries like africa or for countries within africa within the continent of africa whereby many countries on the continent of africa simply not even receive the vaccines yet so of course the digital vaccine possible is perhaps of no help to them but if we were to collaborate a digital health pass with for example a very robust testing regime to be able to unlock intercontinental travel across the continent of africa which is again vital we're not just talking about holidays and terrorism we're talking about the genuine pipes is the trouble then that's going to be important for them and not leaving those countries behind so that harmonize ation is key as we unlock through this next phase of the pandemic but of course we need to be thinking slightly more global and kind of collectively together then i think we have seen over the last 12 months is as countries of become very insular and very kind of their own fast overheard alex or talk about the need for harmonization you know when it comes to agreements going forward i mean listen i got to step further and look at the e.u. where there's been a lot of disharmony you have european countries like greece and spain they are dependent on tourism they've been pushing for a while now for a quick introduction of these certificates but then there are other member states like france and germany are saying that it's premature to introduce these vaccination certificates since a large majority of e.u. citizens have not had access to vaccines so far how do you bridge that divide. well it is in the very nature of the european union that is not a substitution of those or member states but a coordinating body i have no idea if and how they your can commission coordinates anything with a w t h o but it appears to me as if it is a quick shot to respond to it you only lateral action of countries like austria and greece who as you rightly say much more dependent on tourism than germany for example and if they do what we have seen last year acts without coordinating with others given that we are a highly integrated economic space in which assange and so on the free movement and where people are is an essential if this whole project then the european commission must step in and provide something even if it is not ideal and drop it in a step in a more pragmatic way to deal with that mic alex if countries like germany and france can't be swayed if there is no e.u. wide solution when it comes to these certificates are we going to see countries like greece setting up bilateral agreements with other countries for vaccines are difficult it's and from your perspective how much does that complicate the situation. it's going to become very complicated if there is a lack of harmonize ation you're exactly right and that is because if there is no wider agreement for example across the e.u. and you know we could take this precedent and we could shift it elsewhere across the continent of africa across the g.c.c. in the gulf and various other regions if we have no harmonize ation make no mistake this becomes foreign policy we will see deal struck between countries whereby they are trying to tap into that tourist markets by giving them the promise that if you are vaccinated for example we are open to you and that kind of individual deal by deal case by case nature is not something we want to see in aviation in trouble but also not something we should want to see globally because it's going to leave many countries behind i do fear however that this is probably going to be the most likely scenario for this year we've seen many countries already indicate their own policies because their economies have been battered by coded and therefore they would do all it takes to get tourism into their nations and if the digital health passed in collaboration with an airline a private company is going to push that and give them the economic recovery in the summer that they need then i think that's exactly what they're going to do. with regarding what alex just said how much does it concern you that we might see more disharmony that more countries might either set up these bilateral agreements with other countries or just go it alone when it comes to what should be on these vaccines certificates how much worse can that make the problem. well i think it would make the whole situation more comics x.-men and we move along with this the get. an equitable distribution of this vaccine because well who to see is the countries who would have a higher percentage of the vaccine coverage they would get more benefits for example when we talk about the united kingdom here we have 35 percent of the people already vaccinated and if you need to explore and learn to live. you can would be in or want to position to get access to most of those countries for tourism for businesses for other things but the part of the problem is that we know that these we are talking about a transmission preconception that does not respect the borders and we are seeing receiving quite a high percentage of the inspection and escaped new gens and any of that mutant it's moved along with in the countries so often is going to take the whole countries at the vaccine contains onto the knee just to put into the perspective the fence to their variant that was 1st they're going to fight here in the u.k. but the can't isolate some not last a couple of months 65 percent of the cases and false belonging to do smear jensen is the case with many other countries within the e.u. so all of what my point is that a vaccine passport would be meaningless if we will have the strategy that is defined at least at the ponting and level to have a poorly notice fonts so that everybody beyond the continent is at the same level of coverage of the vaccine the same level of protection before the vaccine task were become meaningful olrik from your perspective does the plan as it is in vision now essentially mean that it would be a minority that would be able to travel without restrictions while young people who are not seen as a priority to be vaccinated would have to continue to quarantine if they were to travel isn't that in some way discriminatory and are you concerned that this could become discriminatory. well i have spoke of an important pillar of your integration which is the freedom of mobility and the establishment of the shang and so on and even more important is that we have human rights with individual freedoms and guarantees that if we had treated equally and if this new instrument leads to forms of discrimination it will do more harm than it actually helps to approach the time until the house the higher rates of vaccination which in my understanding is the main i have yet to come up with his tool that it buys time. alex at the moment the way that the vaccine certificates have been in visioned they're just mostly to facilitate travel correct but what i mean is we don't yet know if they would help facilitate other activities within a country whether that might mean gaining access to a restaurant gaining access to a gym or other sectors in the within that country is not right it is the focus of course is is on one of the fundamentals in terms of the impact of the pandemic which is that for most of us as he said in the introduction we've lost that freedom of movement now even trying to discover what you need to enter a new territory a new country is extremely complicated these days it changes day by day you know i work in aviation and just trying to keep up with these developments myself is incredibly challenging so i have no idea how a member of the public is supposed to meet those ever changing guidelines the digital health policy is owed to me at least supposed to kind of cut out the confusion and fast track you to knowing your if you are eligible to enter that country now that's from an immigration point of view if you like if you meet the requirements to enter that territory but that middle part is of course the a to b that's the trouble predominantly travel and we know that airlines themselves have been the number one user right now trying these digital health apps across the world from british show it to singapore airlines cats are always emirates airlines like rwanda in africa and so on we have this high up take this high try usage period right now as they anticipate this next period the 3rd point i want to make is that we are looking at a reality in some parts of the out of no that see no fly quantas the national airline of australia have already combined that that is something they are writing into the terms and conditions so that you cannot book a ticket unless you agree to the fact that you will have been vaccinated before you book that. quantas flight how will you prove if they've been vaccinated to contests that's where the digital house passed tons in and so you see just how kind of wide ranging how many boxes they aim to take through this hopefully simple application that most of us will probably have on athens by this time next year mohamed if these you e.u. certificates come to pass will this serve as a model that could be used in let's say the united states and other countries will these countries be quick to try to replicate that when certainly i mean i am fully understand that our sport is being well up to the vaccine past what is being proposed for the right reason and of course there are scientific challenges they are largest challenges but if it does appear to be successful in terms of opening up the economies in terms of opening up to tourism certainly other countries would be open to to adopt that but my my major concern is really also on 2 of the decline of that seem to be used to minimize the person for example if we talk about the number of acts that has a you know 65 to 68 percent of protection that means still 40 percent of the people who have been vaccinated they would have a stamp of the. certification of vaccination but they might not be protected and also when we talk about the similar to allow us to do it as a vaccine certainly there are different challenges on to have the protection is good enough or not and i don't think that we have in the scientific community information enough that if somebody have antibodies which can be tested on the airport is protected against the inspection or not here or is the one who will not be checking divide us so all these. meters will become determined to do factor for the success of any complaint around the vaccine certificates and until those are not refined i don't really see that those become successful and if those are not the 1900 debility would use the idea or the issue of which vaccine has been given also you know becomes part of this conversation as well right i mean the european commission. proposed that all the vaccines approved by the european medicines agency should be recognized but if you take a country like hungry for example in february they became the 1st in the e.u. to begin using russia sputnik v. and china cinna farm vaccines what happens to european citizens who've been vaccinated with vaccines that have not been approved for use by the e.u. are they going to be allowed to get this certificate. this is still an open question but this we are in this phase of trial failed try again failed beto and what has been the who a few months ago is now a different one and we learn on a database i think in general the european commission tries to offer a step towards more coordination but it is not a central tawa they don't have the right to go as far as a sovereign state and that's why they only provide a framework and leave it up to each and every member states to decide what is the consequence if someone enters the country with this document and what are the rights and privileges that comes with that they can greatly vary from another one but that makes perfect sense given the situation that we have all of the european union that is far from being coherent alex will they have less than a minute left let me just ask you very quickly travelers of course are going to be concerned about their privacy the european commission guaranteed that a very high level of data protection will be insured how will that be accomplished . this is again one of those open questions where automatically i think from an aviation perspective they believe it to be a tradeoff the data that you already giving and lines preplanned demick they expect it to be just a little bit more which is that health status know to be around vaccination status and tests and they believe that people the wider public will be willing to make that tradeoff with privacy concerns of course legitimate concerns if it restores something like freedom of movement and travel which of course we know has been taken from us since the pandemic started one year ago all right we've run out of times we're going to have to leave the discussion there thanks so much to all of our guests alric brooklier alex much eris and dr mohamed one here and thank you too for watching you can see this in all our previous programs again any time by visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story for me i'm a gentleman the whole team here i found out. jump into the story there is a lot going on in this one julia not global community when i talk of all the misinformation i think we all want to feed than we are and where it be part of the debate don't ever take anybody's one word because there is always a difference when no topic is off the table we have been disconnected from our land we have been disconnected from who we are and would love to hear from you and be part of today's discussion this dream on out is there. thanks love to make loans to sufferings because behind the suffering a millions of taxpayers because most taxpayers never go away there's a new one born every single day a 19 it is an urgent national necessity that it be officially requested rationing of the support mechanism we created together because i happen to live in greece somehow i am a sinner i'm a bad person. that's machine on al-jazeera. the protests started chiefly in front of the x. museum in amsterdam hundreds of protesters gathered to demand the government east lock down restrictions and lift a curfew the 1st in the country since world war 2 the threat is that we lose our freedoms to protesters who are not funneling social distancing groups who are repeatedly ordered to disperse by police but police are trying very hard to close friend the scenario that happened last week when thousands were rioting in cities across the nat'l. after some protesters started throwing stones at letting off fireworks police on horseback moved in to clear the area. this is all zones or i'm certain obligato with a check on your world headlines china has won the u.s. to stay out of its internal affairs as top diplomats of the world's 2 largest economies hold talks in alaska it's the 1st high level meeting between the 2 superpowers since u.s. president joe biden took office art ministration is committed to leading with diplomacy to advance the interest of the united states and to strengthen the rules based international order that system is not an abstraction.
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