Dont half, so if you dont have, i dont know the most basic elements that you need for leave. And also if you didnt have some rights that makes that if you can find it, generate a lot of change. And the government says, these people i, backed by cuban americans in the United States, are trying to destroy cubas revolution. But these people say they no longer tolerate the governments harassment and are willing to sacrifice everything for change. That he said, will i deceive you . These are the headlines on aljazeera this hour. A deadline imposed by the Ethiopian Government for to Ground Forces to surrender is to expire on wednesday. The federal army is threatening the use of artillery on to gross capital. Mackellar, if Regional Forces fail to lay down their arms, many of those escaping the fighting from the conflict have now arrived in sudan. Hiper morgan reports now from a gathering near the Sudanese Border with ethiopia. Weve spoken to several aid organizations and local authorities as well as refugees themselves. Most of the people you speak to speak of people. They have been forced to leave behind. Whether its their mothers, children, or partners. They say that the conflict happened. All of a sudden they were not expecting it started this head with bombardments and with attacks artillery attacks. So they were forced to flee where the fighting found them and seek refuge in the journey that took them more than 5 days to get to the European Border or morgan reporting there. We have got more news coming for you in about half an hours time. Next though, the latest edition of inside story with Bernard Smith as we understand the different scenes and similarity of cultures across the world, ill just move current aljazeera, shaping our digital future. Chinas president says he wants to work with other countries to build a shared cyber Space Community, while europe and the u. S. Argue over previously rights and taxation of Virtual Companies who will win the battle over the future of the internet. This is inside story. Hello welcome to the program. Im burnitz. China has long been pushing for a greater role in Global Internet governance. Now it says it wants to build a common cyber Space Community with other countries. President xi jinping says his nation is ready to cooperate on a shared internet infrastructure. China strictly controls the internet and censors its content. It recently proposed regulations that could restrict the powers of Tech Companies and is being accused by the u. S. Of using the internet to pose security threats. The Chinese Government denies such allegations. President xi laid out his ideas in a letter read out at the world internet conference hosted by china. China is ready to work with other countries to grasp the information revolution fostered, new driving forces for digital development, and open up new prospects for digital cooperation. Efforts will be made to forge a new pattern of cybersecurity and a community of shared future in cyberspace to create an even Better Future for mankind. Last month, the founder of chinese tech giant alibaba, criticized the government plans to regulate the sector. Now c. E. O. , daniel jang says the draft rules a timely and necessary he told the internet conference supervision allows Platform Enterprises to not only develop well on their own, but also helps the sustainable and Healthy Development of the entire society and creates innovation. Lets bring in our guest in beijing. We have tangan, a political analyst, but devises the Chinese Government. Joining us from washington, d. C. Is jodi west to be chief executive of Global Cyber Risk consultancy. And max eyes is a lecturer in Computer Network security at the university of central lancashire, and thats in preston in the united kingdom. Welcome to each of you jodi. Ill start with you out. If i may, chinas government seems to think if you can harness the full potential of the internet for economic good while keeping a tight grip on what it wants you to see or not see online. And so far it seems. Thats right, doesnt it . And if you look at how chinas economy is doing chinas been able to do that within its own country quite effectively. The good game here is though, it wants to expand that out and it is part of the whole role, global norms and the internet, and change the basis of internet governance that is in place. Now. Do you think that china can impose its model of how it regulates the internet on the rest of the world . Is that what the rest of the world needs and wants . No, i dont disagree with jodi on this one. What theyre trying to do is, back in 2013, they started the site, a sovereign internet, and he will wonder what it is. But as we see today with election interference, all sorts of problems with social media. I think countries are already moving in the direction of saying that they have to have some measure of control over it. Its not this free and open highway, which is going to bring in like mint. Everybody actually is bringing in a lot of conspiracy. There isnt. Thanks like that, but theres no way that china can impose that. What theyre saying is that there should be some sort of structure and system. And in essence to connect up these different sovereign internet and regulate how they interact and how that digital comics court work. Max china suggesting some sort of structure to how the internet is globally run is the chinese model, a woman that the rest of the world might be persuaded by . Well, it is an interesting proposal. Your other 2 guests have agreed you know, in order to combat phenomenas like faking news or election interference on things like structure will be needed however, and the chinese proposal. Im not quite sure would that be actually accepted by every nation around the globe because striking the balance between restructuring and combating these come back in these and ominous and you know, freedom of speech and you know, staying safe online. All these needs to be really considered very carefully before giving to this restructure. Jodee. China is the only major power thats come up with some sort of a suggestion, european european union. The americans are fighting about taxation and privacy issues. China stepping into a void here, isnt it a void that needs filling . Well, china and russia have been working very effectively, especially at the United Nations level. China has been making some strides towards the goals that it, it wants to put in place. It uses the right terminology, it uses internet governance, it uses protection of expression, but that is what their term is and their definition is the part of the problem has been that the United States has really not shown the leadership for the last decade that it should have been showing in multilateral for us to really be leading globally on cyber security, cyber crime, and these issues. And its opened the door for china and russia to play a more prominent role in the United Nations and to align other countries in africa, asia, or latin america to get them to come along with them. And so where we used to really control a big block of both boats or have people with the United States and its positions now that is splintered off. And so it puts, it puts the western countries and the democratic countries at a disadvantage. And china is sort of seizing the initiative here, isnt it in seeing an opportunity to mold internet governance and into how it believes it should be, while the u. S. And europe squabble over other issues. Well, thats an issue here. You can say as a country or somebody creates a vacuum and you know, no one is supposed to go in there. The fact is that Digital Economy is, you know, going ahead whether or not the u. S. Has interests that are not. Chinas already done a lot with that cyber currency. Theyre doing, you know, theyre ahead on 5 g. In a lot of different areas. And the only thing that all trying to come up with was to somehow contain china has been stripped off from the from getting too far ahead. I think thats where, but i think its going to be a little different. He says he wants to compete. Basically, you know, compete at the top end rather than at bottom. So i dont, you know, that this idea that somehow the west or if youre saying the u. S. Should control, you know, the cyber friends here is as silly as saying, china control is something that belongs to the world. Each country has to decide what the balance it says, max, at what is the correct balance for that particular country, and its not going to be well, one size fits all. And unfortunately, sometimes thats what the u. S. Is expecting. Other countries to do they, ive said theres only 11. 00 ideology, one kind of economics, one kind of internet that everybody should abide by. The fact is thats not going to work. Max should the u. S. And the europeans be trying to come up with something similar to what china is offering or working with china on this. I mean, the u. S. And europe, by the way, all the only countries with a similar sort of democratic background. Theres japan, india, what should those countries be doing . Well, i think, you know, them that asian or the, you know, what china has come up with is, you know, from, from an economic point of view, at least we see that as a, as a positive step forward to bring nations to Work Together in order to find a solution when you know will will guarantee what we call enter if we use a santorum internet governance because these nations we are talking about you just mentioned now japan european union, the u. S. They are all in the top, you know, powers in terms of Cyber Capabilities and intent and working with china is an act of will at some point to actually, you know, bring these nations together. You know, for us in academia, you know, bring these research communities, do you do more corporations with chinese universities and academics to, you know, to come back to the, the rise of cyber attack, cyber crimes are all over the internet. So i think working together is the solution going forward. But as your guests were saying, you know, the balance, the model, the trust issues they need to be addressed before. You know, before we move forward in that direction. Joe dear, is there a need to agree common digital rules . And if, as you say, the u. S. Are sort of taken its eye off the ball here, what should it be doing in response to chinas proposals . Well, the most important thing you should be doing is really actively engaging in the United Nations. We can talk about countries talking among themselves and agreeing. But the fact is, the United Nations is 192 countries. Thats comprised of an International Body that does set regulations for communications and standards. And thats where china has really been able to, to worm its way in and through the International Telecommunications union, where its held very high leadership positions. So the United States needs to get involved at the General Assembly and the i. T. You and the standard setting bodies and the regulatory efforts far more than it needs to engage far more than it has. And to bring allies along the allies as well. You could say, with huawei were reluctant to side with the u. S. On banning wild ways, pikey technology. Why . Because they were afraid, donald trump would do a side deal and leave them hanging with whatever theyve come into. And nationally, with the United States that will change and be judged by, well get, well get Better Alliance with our countries that are democratic institutions. And i think we wont have that sort of splintering. It will, will start regaining some cohesiveness in position. However, thats one to depend on whether the biden is ministration puts people in place in these institutions that can provide leadership locally. Ok, nobody disputes that there are dark unpleasant corners of the internet and there should be some effort to try and do something about it. But it isnt the sort of uninhibited exchange of views and ideas. A dozen button lead to innovation and development assumes people are cathal about what they say online. Youve stifle a lot, dont you . Well, i think theres a difference between discussing possibilities and saying, you know, the Movie Theater is on fire in a crowded, you know, packed house, you know, that theyre obviously has to be some limits. Otherwise youre having with your hat now, which is kind of on mitigated. Disaster or where people are saying straight news, they think that theyre entitled to their own facts opposed to it. But it to address what jodi was saying. I strongly disagree calling, you know, china names and things like that and saying that the problem is that the allies didnt, you know, joined the ring around the rosie and cheney shot is nonsense. The issue was, what were the factual basis you had countries independently through their own security entities saying look, theres no problem here. And to the extent there is a problem, we can change it and there was political pressure put on. So i dont have think that has anything to do with this idea of Technical Compliance or real dangers. This is simply a move by the u. S. Through donald trump, to contain some, a country china, which was getting ahead of. I mean, i think this kind of credible hubris that is shown here that only things that only advance things should be developed. Western nations and western nations should set all rules for the rest. These people, thats racist. Well ok ana, just before i let jodie come back in on this, let me at least say that isnt it . That the issue is that the way that china views how the internet should work is completely at odds with the way the liberal democracies of the world view, the internet. And the challenge of bringing the those 2 together is or in some out civil. I would imagine its just a totally different way of thinking. Yes it is. And you know, quite frankly, chinas going to have to toughen up that skin account. I expect to be a world player and shut itself off. So its going to have to be willing to open up like that, but that doesnt mean that there shouldnt be standards and that people should be working together. I would agree with bats. Its a question of bringing everyone to the table, not somebody sitting outside the ring, throwing in bombs because there are, they chose not to be involved. Ok, joe, do you count . Obviously ignore all china. Ill let you come back. What i says, but obviously there needs to be some sort of common approach to the not to the future of the internet when there is. So its, so there is the in the Cyber Crime Convention that has been signed by 65 countries. So we have some progress being made in countering cyber crime, but you also have to consider cyber conflict. So right, china does have an advantage. These monopoly countries that the authoritarian regimes to control all the communications. They have an advantage. If there is in a time of cyber conflict or cyber war, they control all the communications. And then they, chinas been trying to do its own internal internet. So that means that it would have to melody when, when the United States or other countries might not have access to the internet if it was completely disrupted. And so in cyber conflict, theres a huge need for everyone to be on the same page in cyber crime. There has to be everyone on the same page or no one is secure. And so trying to fracture this out to china is worldview versus how that, how the internet has developed. Its just not going to be productive for everyone that is connected in using this, this wonderful platform. Ok, max, can i ask you about . So there was a report that was produced of u. S. Council on Foreign Relations that came up the vi there of the sort of digital trade zone complete with a treaty organization. And members who want to join this trade zone would have to abide by the treaty rules. And you know, there would be a mechanisms for sanctioning those members of that in the group with the rules is that, do we need Something Like that . I think Something Like that from an International Point of view, an International Effort to standardize the operations and how the internet is governed and all these things internationally and International Effort. And i will agree with jody, you know, about, you know, the other nations, you know, working in, within the e. U. U. N. Framework to actually, and the i. T. You, for example, to bring these, you know, treat you like this, for example, to an International Level where there will be governance because at the end of the day, i mean i, you know, i didnt politician politics is not really my, my area really. But, you know, from a technical point of view, i see this every day in the news where there is a bit of tension always between the big players between china and between the u. S. Between, you know, european nations. Because im like i said before, these are very powerful nations in terms of their Cyber Capabilities and china and the u. S. Are actually neck to neck in the latest endicotts, the National Cyber bar index. So its very hard to ignore the importance of china as a, as a international player. But at the same time, trying to bring these nations together into a treaty that is governed within the u. N. Framework that could be a 1st step. And as a set Building Trust among International Partners will be a very good step in the right directions. Because theres a lot of accusations, theres a lot of finger pointing in the news by Security Experts that you know, theres a lot of Cyber Attacks or hacking darst sponsored by states like china, like russia or even other other nations. And this is, this is a problematic because, you know, you cant really operate a treaty or start a collaboration is in not much fear or theres a lot of acetic is asian finger pointing say. So again, as i said, trust is going to be essential. Ok. And i know what about a digital trade zone complete with the treaty and members who can be sanctioned if they dont or if they are wayward is another way forward. No, i didnt think so. I mean, there has to be some sort of collaboration on this, otherwise youre going to see a breakdown in these internets and this kind of world shattering is being put forward by my colleague. You know, the u. S. Spends over half of the 1. 00 trillion dollars annually on defense, a large part of that goes to cyber security, espionage, counterespionage, etc. I mean the issue here and i would agree with you that its about bringing people table. If you know what it is, but you know, jody pointed out the u. S. Has been absent. I dont think thats chinas fault, or is it europes fault . They both have to get, everybody has to get up the table and they have to put something together. As weve, seen with the recent signing of r. C. E. P. Chinese not at 1st sitting down with whom, whom ever . Even though theyre at odds with australia and india, they still said look, the door is open. So this idea that somehow china is at 1st to sitting down and on multilateral shushan is incorrect. Its quite the other way as the u. S. Has been going it alone and making it very difficult to have any kind of international framework. Jodee. What about some sort of digital trade zone, or there was another idea. Another group of think tanks came up with the idea of a technology alliance. No sort of formal treaty, but like the g 7 or i. M. F. Would hold regular meetings do e, is that Something Like that . Well, we can talk about a digital trade because that all companies are i. T. Companies. Our countries are i. T. Countries, everybodys digital. So where do you draw the line and say this is the day, you know, trains on purpose this every other industry that uses i. T. To support its operations. Weve never ratified the law of the sea treaty thinking that youre going to get the countries around the world. There are about 230 countries and territories connected to the internet. You think were going to get everybody to agree to a tree. Its just at a nonsense, let me add 10 years of talking and look how long its taken. The European Convention on cybercrime day. It has taken a long time to get 65 countries to sign up to that. So we have a World Trade Organization for trade issues. We have a United Nations, we have a lot of like we need to use these institutions, these structures, and these legal frameworks that can be adapted cyber. Weve adapted them for other technological progress. For example, for our navies when ships were available for air force when, when planes we now have space when we talked about dangerous land mines and other special things that were banned in the laws of armed conflict. So we have been able to take these structures that are proven and lasting, and i think its far better to, from countries to work with frameworks and to accommodate the use of the internet in a global fashion. Ok. I just wanted to ask you about this change in the approach that the Chinese Government has to his tech sector. We used to be fairly relaxed, but now the state of ministration, the market regulations proposing to prevent platforms from dominating the market. Why no, are they moving against those very powerful organization in chinas powerful Companies Rather . Well, i think there is something very instructive is jackpot. I mean, he decided a few days before the largest i. P. O. In World History that he wanted to kind of make fun of the Chinese Government. But there was an underlying part of that with china is how many forward with its Digital Economy with this, you know, this digital you want things are going to change dramatically or is a feeling that jack ma was timing his i. P. O. Prior to this because are going to be profound changes when you do have a Digital Currency that is actually working in a, in the, you know, world of the Worlds Largest trade entities with, you know, trade relations, number one, trade relations with 120. 00, countries around the world. People. Theres a feeling that they didnt want jackpot, it cashed in on something that he couldnt deliver. Also, you know, i think theres people are looking at whats happening with google and facebook. And a lot of these big monopolies, china created their own. Obviously 0. 10 an hour bar is huge. And theres a feeling that you dont want to concentrate that much power in these entities because theyre now ruling not so much by innovation all the time. But a lot just by sheer market size, and thats one of the problems with the market economy. Unfortunately, to lead towards monopolies if they are in fact left unchecked. So china has the same problems us and also europe. They have to make sure that the sizing of these things through does not allow unfair cop competition to arise. A max of china thought of taking a look at microsoft and apple and amazon and alphabet, and seen the how theyve dominated over there and decided that its not the way they want to go should go. I think, i think euro burnell, i mean that i think china has, are they are seeing whats going on in, in europe, and the us about how these giant acts are dominating the market, named lest some taxes than they should. Facebook has become of it giant. I mean, we saw Mark Zuckerberg in the Congress Giving evidence. I mean, if you think about it its, its supposed to be a social Media Network that is connecting be able to gather. But when we went from that, you know, nice idea about social connections and relationships to influencing elections and using that are from disparate fake news and all these things. And i think, you know, not just china, i think every country they dont want someone to be as giants. And, you know, it will spiral out of control and it will be very difficult to actually the intervene when its needed. Because we, theres not just about the job market or the trade is also about the source will impact that. What has this, you know, could embark on peoples life on peoples welfare. So it is, yeah, i think china is kind of like looking at this and saying, we dont want that to happen to us or ok folks. Unfortunately, again, were out of time with so much more to talk about. But thank you to, i know our time going to jody westby and to max iser and thank you too for watching. 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