Transcripts For ALJAZ Inside Story 20240711

Formally unveiled some of his top team while pennsylvania and nevada have become the latest states to certify him as the winner. Its a team that will keep our country and our people safe and secure. Its a team that reflects the fact that america is back ready to lead the world. Not retreat from it. Once again, sit at the head of the table, ready to confront our adversaries, and not reject our allies ready to stand up for our values. The Ethiopian Government says to graham Regional Forces have started to surrender. The government gave the rebels until wednesday to lay down their arms or risk. A final assault on the main city became a 20 people to leave the area because they, the ship denies surrendering claims. An Ethiopian Military division has been destroyed. It 14 people have been killed by 2 explosions at a market in central afghanistan. It happened in the historic city of bomi on home to the mainly shia has are a minority. No group has claimed responsibility for the attack happened as the u. N. Secretary general called for an immediate and unconditional cease fire in afghanistan, spoke to a donors conference in geneva, where nations pledged 12000000000. 00 in aid. Over the next 4 years. Italy has reported its highest death toll from coronavirus. Since march 853 fatalities were confirmed on tuesday. The Health Ministry also read stood more than 23000 new infections. The Aviation Industry is reporting larger than expected losses due to the coronavirus pandemic. The International Air transport association predicted 100000000000. 00 loss by the end of 2021. Rather its now raise that to 150000000000. And the news continues here on aljazeera right after inside story shaping our digital future. Chinas president says he wants to work with other countries to build a shared cyber space community. While your but the u. S. Argue over privacy rights and taxation of Virtual Companies who will win the battle over the future of the incident. This is inside story. Hello welcome to the program and its china has long been pushing for a greater role in Global Internet governance. Now it says it wants to build a common cyberspace community with all the countries present. Xi jinping says his nation is ready to cooperate on a shed internet infrastructure. China strictly controls the internet and senses its content. It recently proposed regulations that could restrict the powers of Tech Companies and is being accused by the u. S. Of using the internet to pose security threats. The Chinese Government denies such allegations. President xi laid out his ideas in a letter read out at the world internet conference hosted by china. China is ready to work with other countries to grasp the information revolution fostered, new driving forces for digital development, and open up new prospects for digital cooperation. Efforts will be made to forge a new pattern of cybersecurity and a community of shared future in cyberspace to create an even Better Future for mankind. Last month, the founder of chinese tech giant alibaba, criticized the government plans to regulate the sector. Now c. E. O. , daniel jang says the draft rules a timely and necessary he told the internet conference supervision allows Platform Enterprises to not only develop well on their own, but also helps the sustainable and Healthy Development of the entire society and creates innovation. Lets bring in our guests in beijing, we have time going to political analyst, where devise is the Chinese Government. Joining us from washington, d. C. Is jody westby chief executive of Global Cyber Risk consultancy. And max eyes is a lecturer in Computer Network security at the university of central lancashire, and thats in preston in the united kingdom. Welcome to each of you, jody. Ill start with you. Actually if im a Chinese Government, seems to think if you can harness the full potential of the internet for economic good while keeping a tight grip on what it wants you to see or not see online. And so far it seems thats right, doesnt it . And if you look at how chinas economy is doing, chinas been able to do that with minutes own country quite effectively. Their game here is though it wants to expand that hour and it is part of the whole role, global norms and the internet, and change the basis of internet governance that is in place. Now. Do you think that china can impose its model of how it regulates the internet on the rest of the world . Is that what the rest of the world needs and wants . No, i disagree with jody on this one. What theyre trying to do is, back in 2013, they started the side of a sovereign internet, and he will wonder what it is. But as we see today with election interference, all sorts of problems with social media. I think countries are already moving in the direction of saying that they have to have some measure of control over it. Its not this free and open highway, which is going to bring in like mint. Everybody actually is bringing a lot of conspiracy. There isnt, thanks. I but theres no way that china can impose that. What theyre saying is that there should be some sort of structure and system. And in essence to connect up these different sovereign internets and regulate how they interact and how the digital comics court work. Max china suggesting some sort of structure to how the internet is globally run is the chinese model a woman to the rest of the world might be persuaded by well, it is an interesting proposal. Your other 2 guests have agreed you know, in order to combat phenomenas like faking news or election interference on things like structure will be needed however, and the chinese proposal. Im not quite sure would that be actually accepted by every nation around the globe because striking the balance between restructuring and combating these come back in these and ominous and you know, freedom of speech and you know, staying safe online. All these needs to be really considered very carefully before giving to this restructure. Jodee. China is the only major power thats come up with some sort of a suggestion. Europea european union. The americans are fighting about taxation and privacy issues. China stepping into a void here, isnt it a void that needs filling . Well, china and russia have been working very effectively, especially at the United Nations level. China has been making some strides towards the goals that it, it wants to put in place. It uses the right terminology, it uses internet governance that uses protection of expression. Bet that is what their term is and their definition is the part of the problem has been that the United States has really not shown the leadership read the last decade that it should have been showing in multilateral for us to really be leading globally on cyber security, cyber crime and these issues. And its opened the door for china and russia to play a more prominent role in the United Nations and to align other countries in africa, asia or latin america to get them to come along with them. And so where we used to really control a big block of both boats or have people with the United States and its positions now that is splintered off. And so it puts, it puts the western countries and the democratic countries at a disadvantage. China is sort of seizing the initiative here, isnt it in seeing an opportunity to mold internet governance and into how it believes it should be, while the u. S. And europe squabble over other issues. Well, thats an issue on your hands. A, as a country, somebody creates a vacuum and you know, no one is supposed to go in there. The fact is that Digital Economy is, you know, going ahead whether or not the u. S. Interests are not. Chinas already done a lot with that cyber currency. Theyre doing, you know, theyre ahead on 5 g. In a lot of different areas and the only thing that the trump could come up with was to somehow contain china has been stripped off from the, from getting too far ahead. I think thats where by just going to be a little bit different, he says he wants to compete, basically, you know, compete at the top end rather than at the bottom. So i dont, you know, that this idea that somehow the west or if youre saying the u. S. Should control, you know, the cyber friends here is as silly as saying, china control is something that belongs to the world. Each country has to decide what the balance it says, max, at what is the correct balance for that particular country. And its not going to be one size fits all. And unfortunately, sometimes thats what the u. S. Is expecting. Other countries to do they, id say theres only 11. 00 ideology, one kind of economics, one kind of internet that everybody should abide by. The fact is thats not going to work. Max should the u. S. And the europeans be trying to come up with something similar to what china is offering or working with china on this. I mean, the u. S. And europe, by the way, all the only countries with a similar sort of democratic background is japan. India, what should those countries be doing . Well, i think, you know, the invitation or the, you know, that, well, china has come a way that is, you know, from, from an economic point of view, at least we see that as a, as a positive step forward to bring nations to Work Together in order to find a solution that will, you know, will, will guarantee what we call enter. If we use a sense, our internet governance because these nations we are talking about you just mentioned now japan european union, the u. S. They are all in the top, you know, powers in terms of Cyber Capabilities and intent and working with china is an effort to will, at some point to actually, you know, bring these nations together. You know, for us in academia, you know, bring these research communities, do you do more corporations with chinese universities and academics to, you know, to come back to the, the rise of Cyber Attacks. Cyber crimes are all over the internet. So i think working together is the solution going forward. But as your guests were saying, you know, the balance, the model, the trust issues they need to be addressed before go, you know, before we move forward in the direction. Joe dear, is there a need to agree common digital rules . And if, as you say, the u. S. Are sort of taken its eye off the ball here, what should it be doing in response to chinas proposals . Well, the most important thing you should be doing is really actively engaging in the United Nations. We can talk about countries talking among themselves and agreeing. But the fact is, the United Nations is 192 countries. Thats comprised of an International Body that does set regulations for communications and standards. And thats where china has really been able to, to worm its way in and through the International Telecommunications union, where its held very high leadership positions. So the United States needs to get involved at the General Assembly in the i t you and the standard setting bodies and the regulatory efforts far more than it needs to engage far more than it has. And to bring allies along the allies as well. You could say with weiwei, were reluctant to side with the us on banning wild ways. Pikey technology. Why . Because they were afraid, donald trump would do a side deal and leave them hanging with whatever they come into. An initially with the United States that will change under joe biden will get it will get Better Alliance with our countries that are democratic institutions. And i think we wont have that sort of splintering it will, will, will start regaining some cohesiveness and position. However, thats one to depend on whether the Biden Administration cuts people in place in these institutions that can provide leadership locally. Ok, nobody disputes that there are dark unpleasant corners of the internet and there should be some effort to try and do something about it. But isnt the sort of uninhibited exchange of views and ideas a dozen about lead to innovation and development assumes people are cathal about what they say online. Youve stifle lot, dont you . Well, i think theres a difference between discussing possibilities and saying, you know, the Movie Theater is on fire in a crowded packed house. You know, there obviously has to be some limits. Otherwise youre having with your hat now, which is kind of unmitigated disaster or where people are saying straight news. They think that theyre entitled to their own facts opposed to it. But it to address what jody was saying. I strongly disagree calling, you know, china names and things like that and saying that the problem is that the allies didnt, you know, joined the ring around the rosie and cheney shot is nonsense. The issue was, what were the factual basis you had countries independently through their own security entities saying look, theres no problem here. And to the extent there is a problem, we can change it and there was political pressure put on. So i dont have think that has anything to do with this idea of Technical Compliance or real dangers. This is simply a move by the u. S. Through donald trump, to contain some, a country china, which was getting ahead of. I mean, i think this kind of credible hubris that is shown here that only things that only advance things should be developed. Western nations and western nations should set all rules for the rest of these people. Thats racist. Well ok ana, just before i let jodie come back in on this, let me at least say that isnt it . That the issue is that the way that china views how the internet should work is completely at odds with the way the liberal democracies of the world view, the internet. And the challenge of bringing the those 2 together as well in some out civil i would imagine its just a totally different way of thinking. Yes it is. And you know, quite frankly, chinas going to have to toughen up its cant account expect to be a world player and shut itself off. So its going to have to be willing to open up like that. But that doesnt mean that there shouldnt be standards. And that people shouldnt be working together. I would agree with bats. Its a question of bringing everyone to the table. Not somebody sitting outside the ring, throwing in bombs because there are, they chose not to be involved. Ok, joe, do you count . Obviously ignore all china. Ill let you come back what i says, but obviously there needs to be some sort of common approach to the not to the future of the internet when there is. So its so there is the in the Cyber Crime Convention that has been signed by 65 countries. So we have some progress being made in countering cybercrime, but you also have to consider cyber conflict. So rat, china does have an advantage. These monopoly countries that authoritarian regimes to control all the communications. They have an advantage. If there is in a time, a cyber conflict or cyber war, they control all the communications. And then they, chinas been trying to do its own internal internet. So that means that it would have to belive the when, when the United States or other countries might not have access to the internet if it was completely disrupted. And so in cyber conflict, theres a huge need for everyone to be on the same page in cyber crime. There has to be everyone on the same page or no one is secure. And so trying to fracture this out to china is worldview versus how that, how the internet has developed. Its just not going to be productive for everyone that is connected in using this, this wonderful platform. Ok, max, can i ask you about . So there was a report that was produced of u. S. Council on Foreign Relations that came up the value of this sort of digital trade zone complete with a Treaty Organization and members who want to join this trade zone would have to abide by the treaty rules and you know, there would be a mechanisms for sanctioning those members of that in the group with the rules is that, do we need Something Like that . I think Something Like that from an International Point of view, an International Effort to standardize the operations and how the internet is governed and all these things internationally and International Effort. And i will agree with jody, you know, about, you know, the other nations, you know, working in, within the e. U. U. N. Framework to actually on how young to you, for example, to bring these, you know, treat you like this, for example, to an International Level where there will be governance because at the end of the day, i mean, you know, i didnt politician politics is not really my, my area really. But, you know, from a technical point of view, i see this every day in the news where there is a bit of tension always between the big players between china and between the u. S. Between, you know, the european nations. Because and like i said before, these are very powerful nations in terms of their Cyber Capabilities and china and the u. S. Are actually neck to neck in the latest endicotts, the National Cyber power index. So its very hard to ignore the importance of china as a, as a international player. But at the same time, trying to bring these nations together into a treaty that is governed within the u. N. Framework that could be a 1st step. And as a set Building Trust among International Partners will be a very good step in the right directions. Because theres a lot of accusations, theres a lot of finger pointing in the news by Security Experts that you know, theres a lot of Cyber Attacks or hacking and the arse sponsored by states like china, like russia or even other other nations. And this is, this is a problematic because, you know, you cant really operate a treaty or start a collaboration is in not much fear or theres a lot of acetic is asian finger pointing say. So again, as i said, trust is going to be essential. Ok. And i know what about a digital trade zone complete with the treaty and members who can be sanctioned if they dont or if they are wayward is another way forward. No, i didnt think so. I mean, there has to be some sort of collaboration on this, otherwise youre going to see a breakdown in these internets and this kind of world shattering is being put forward by my colleague. You know, the u. S. Spends over half of the 1. 00 trillion dollars annually on defense, a large part of that goes to cyber security, espionage, counterespionage, etc. I mean the issue here and i would agree with you that its about bringing people table for you know what it is, but you know jodi pointed out the u. S. Has been absent. I dont think thats chinas fault or is it europes fault . They both have to get, everybody has to get up the table and they have to put something together. As weve, seen with the recent signing of arcee, e. P. , china is not at 1st sitting down with whom, whom ever . Even though theyre at odds with australia and india, they still said look, the door is open. So this idea that somehow china is at 1st to sitting down and a multilateral shushan is incorrect. Its quite the other way as the u. S. Has been going it alone and making it very difficult to have any kind of international framework. Jodee. What about some sort of digital trade zone, or there was another idea. Another group of think tanks came up with the idea of a technology alliance. No sort of formal treaty, but like the g 7 or i. M. F. Would hold regular meetings do e, is that Something Like that . Well, we can talk about a digital trade because that companies are i. T. Companies. All countries are i. T. Countries. Everybodys digital. So where do you draw the line and say this is the day, you know, trains on purpose this every other industry that uses i. T. To support its operations. Weve never ratified the law of the sea treaty thinking that youre going to get the countries around the world. There are about 230 countries and territories connected to the internet. You think were going to get everybody to agree to a tree. Its just at a nonsense will be empty in years of talking and look how long its taken. The European Convention on cybercrime day. It has taken a long time to get 65 countries to sign up to that. So we have a World Trade Organization for trade issues. We have a United Nations, we have a lot like we need to use these institutions, these structures, and these legal frameworks that can be adapted to cyber. Weve adapted them for other technological progress. For example, for our navies when ships were available for air force when, when planes we now have space when we talked about dangerous land mines and other special things that were banned in the laws of armed conflict. So we have been able to take these structures that are proven and lasting, and i think its far better to, from countries to work with frameworks and to accommodate the use of the internet in a global fashion. Ok. I just wanted to ask you about this change in the approach that the Chinese Government has to its tech sector. We used to be fairly relaxed, but now the state administration for Market Regulation is proposing to prevent platforms from dominating the market. Why no, are they moving against those very powerful organization in china as powerful Companies Rather . Well, i think its only really instructive is jackpot. I mean, he decided a few days before the largest i. P. O. In World History that he wanted to how to make fun of the Chinese Government. But there was an underlying part of that with china is how many forward with its Digital Economy with this, you know, this digital you want things are going to change dramatically or is a feeling that jack ma was timing his i. P. O. Prior to this because are going to be profound changes when you do have a Digital Currency that is actually working in a, in the, you know, world of the Worlds Largest trade entities with, you know, trade relations, number one, trade relations for 120. 00, countries around the world. People. Theres a feeling that they didnt want jackpot attash and something that he couldnt deliver. Also, you know, i think theres people are looking at whats happening with google and facebook. And a lot of these big monopolies, china created their own. Obviously, 0. 10 an hour bar is huge. And theres a feeling that you dont want to concentrate that much power in these entities because theyre now ruling not so much by innovation all the time, but a lot just by sheer market size. And thats one of the problems with the market economy. Unfortunately, to lead towards monopolies if they are, in fact left unchecked. So china has the same problems us and also europe. They have to make sure that the sizing of these things too, does not allow unfair top competition to arise. A max of, as china thought of taking a look at microsoft and apple and amazon and alphabet, and seen the how theyve dominated over there and decided that its not the way they want to go. Should go. Yeah, i think, i think euro burnell, i mean that i think china has, are they are seeing whats going on in, in europe, and the us about how these giant acts are dominating the market, named lest so, taxes than they should. Facebook has become of it giant, i mean, we saw Mark Zuckerberg in the Congress Giving evidence. I mean, if you think about it its, its supposed to be a social Media Network that is connecting be able to gather. But when we went down that, you know, nice idea about social connections and relationships to influencing elections and using that are from disparate fake news and all these things. And i think, you know, not just china, i think every country they dont want someone to be as giants. And you know, it will spiral out of control and it will be very difficult to actually the intervene when its needed because we got this, not just about the digital market or the trade is also about the ocean impact that what has this, you know, could embark on peoples life on peoples welfare. So it is, yeah, i think china is kind of like looking at this and saying, we dont want that to happen to us or up. Ok folks. Unfortunately again, were out of time with so much more to talk about. But thank you to our tongan, to jody westby, and to max iser, and thank you for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website, aljazeera dot com. And for more debate, go to our facebook page. Thats facebook dot com, forward slash a. J. Inside story. You can also join the conversation on twitter. We are at a. J. Inside story from me, Bernard Smith and the whole team here. This underwater treasure is a risk of disappearing juice. A coral bleaching caused by rising temperatures. When we think about the great strain, the eric, eric hits iconic of tourism industry, baseband says we will lose it instantly if we have another bleaching event of these magnitude. If its continue, it is just well the opportunity for the corals to recover in between those magic side to supporting full strong Climate Policy from the government to reduce emissions without this the situation on the get worse. They are women, mothers performers, christmas from their present in the plot to argentina. That inspiration is a force, a new flu, wolski cheap, stifled, invisible mothers heart or did you find a lot in the mail seen on aljazeera in a notorious Waterside Community . What came some folks whom one pia to direct eventually is to stage a play. They call me miss these that are going to empower the women down. The old man sitting right dead center down and redefine best status in society. This is that nigerias women walk on water, witness on aljazeera. The move, the or oh, im can but alan doha. The top stories on aljazeera joe biden is forging ahead with preparations to take over as u. S. President as his margin of victory keeps growing. And hes formally unveiled some of his top team see how patels, he reports. President elect biden was unequivocal as he presented his National Security appointments and nominees. Its a team that reflects the fact that america is back ready to lead the world, not retreat from it. Once again, sit at the head of the table ready to confront our adversaries and not reject our allies ready to step