Transcripts For ALJAZ The Stream 20240712

Wrapping up his campaign on the offensive traveling almost exclusively to states that President Trump won 4 years ago or harwood 2002000 rabi pledge to trusted me berar do thousands want to master trust me. Im proud of the coalition is character it is bill brock of democrats republicans independents are moderate has a proud democrat but ill govern as an american president. There will be no words very similar states just the United States. The tomorrow we are going to win this state and we are going to win 4 or. 5. Real we will continue to cut your taxes cut regulations support our great polices support our friend test the military well in our headlines at least 22 people are dead and 22 others injured after a gunman stormed Kabul University sparking an hours long battle with Security Forces students were shot in their classrooms and as they try to flee the scene eisel says it was behind the attack which comes as the taliban in the Afghan Government continue to hold talks in cata. And then in Tanzania Police briefly detained opposition president ial candidate tindall ysu over a call for protest to speed in last weeks elections is arrest came hours after the chair of his team a party freeman mabo away and other Party Officials were detained on terrorism charges. The headlines this hour the stream is coming up next. I have had the ok and youre watching the stream today in front soft an attacker and at a Catholic Church in the french city of nice and kill 3 people last week the french president of manual mccraw called the instant an islamist terror attack on the french counts of muslim faith condemned the violence and said that it stood in solidarity with the victims and their families today we all skase fronts at breaking point if youre watching you can join the chat to be part of the days conversation and if youre following via twitter you know our twitter handle act a. J. Stream. So how does france plan to deal with acts of domestic terrorism and at the same time accusations of islamophobia and what does all of this mean for the countrys relationship with Islam Muslims presently chrono address some of these questions last week and an interview with my aljazeera arabic colleague. Getting a little sweet good issues i think thats all d political and religious leaders who dont clearly condemn any violence towards france which is a country of freedom unlike humans have a responsibility sometimes directly but certainly indirectly for the violence which might be perpetrated against french people in france or abroad good because you dont you. Joining our discussion we have rym sara shes a legal scholar who focuses on religious freedom and Civil Liberties in france their fees her media is an associate fellow at the International Center for counterterrorism in london and nasser lo atty director of the justice and liberties for committee in paris it is wonderful to have all of you here it is terrible to have you here to talk about this particular topic let me share with you a tweet i know youve seen this one this is from among your more calm president of france and he says here im going to use the french translation it is france which is under attack i have therefore decided that soldiers will be mobilized in the coming hours as part of operation sentinel we will go from 30027000 soldiers room sara the mood in france right now do you feel like your country is under attack. Im terrified im extremely terrified honestly. It took me a while to understand what was going on. And. I couldnt process it as a french citizen was. Lying what kind of human is capable of doing such horrific crimes is something that goes beyond me and unfortunately what happened after did not help the brouhaha in the media or the confusion but care as it was extremely scary its really really terrifying i dont know where were going yes this is not the 1st time youve had this conversation where people are what is going on in france can you understand it can unpack it for us but if youre feeling her slowly if youre showing how slowly how you are at this moment do you feel under attack. With your thoughts of 2015. A spoken a said muslim is a hard no there are no right to grieve right after the generally attacks the november attacks and the subsequent attacks when a 16 and the feeling is that you barely have time to collect your thoughts and feel sorry for whats going on and for me i was born and raised in various i was a diamond i actually had a you know and i can speak about it now years later a physical burn out from the amount of 4 that was done because i did not have any time to get a few no sit and just you know and my family was telling me yes respect some time you have the right to grieve and for me it was like now its that the government is a you know is doing this and the are going to happen again eccentric such were so and it got worse where my son is now you know turning 12 years he has himself into your internalized the idea that and i think may happen in the bus in the park in the movie and its its frightening beyond any description when you have a child whos supposed to do the movie with you to the movies whos meet with his father and hes already looking around and thats not normal thats not the sort of affair we should be going through and when i said some years ago that this is a new normal for us in france i said it but i didnt expect it to kind of be oppressed own 2 kids because my son when the attack of the course europe took place his school was a few blocks away from the shooting and i was courting as it was teaching and i was told that there was a shooting going on in the high proportion there was a hostage situation and in our other more cycle and i had to walk like that mine enough by feet expecting the worst a little expecting you know you know god forbid they know that this school got shot and and must son was actually i guess like you know 9 years old but then again if you get the numbers straight and i took him from the place and that day he said daddy whats terrorism what is a terrorist. But to conclude. I look at most song look whos been deprived of some of these childhood and i look at him and i can tell you that one day another attack will take place and they would ask you to apologize for weeds dissimilarly tucked into you knew it i should enjoy and vote i was you know live when there was arts it was possible to forget drugs and then say yeah i see acid im not going to go into that because thats that thats another network and as a never that doesnt have a sensibilities here on the strain but i do want to pick up on what you said about your little boy. Yes his little boy like this is the new normal for his little boy is this how you would look at France Flight now that domestic terrorism is to be expectation. Well i mean its a strange question because even myself even though im not a french that is then i went to school in france and i studied i did interviews with people who were radicalized in france and at the time of the shock we have there were turks in 2013 someone who was very near and dear to me it was in a very high level position in the previous french government called me and 3rd was the social the person on the left wing and that now do you understand now do you understand why we hate muslims in france. And this was an incredibly violent rhetorical reaction that i got knowing that i grew up in a muslim household. You know it was it was it was shocking to me and this was just a taste for me and im an outsider and this is what i think a lot of people who are being raised in parts of and sort of you know muslim neighborhoods if you want to call them that areas and friends this is what they suspect people think and as someone whos been on the inside who is whos worked with the government unfortunately will this rhetoric is not common in the wake of these terrorist attacks they do become common which unfortunately speaks to the success of this terrorist attack and all these terrorist attacks when a terrorist blows up a bomb the actual the blast radius is not the actual physical blast radius of whos being injured by definition a terrorist attack is where the targets the the actual physical targets are not the primary targets theres actually a virtual blast radius that theyre trying to create which the circs of the Public Discourse how politicians respond how the common public responds turning neighbors upon neighbors creating divisions within society and groups like al qaida and isis have written about this explicitly in various manuals and so the very fact that were even here having this conversation unfortunately speaks to the success of that that. When you were speaking and when you told that anecdote when sarah you you did what i did i did internally cry a waitress. And on you know to show you what have i saw you do that asma says what are the reasons this is asma on you tube what are the reasons behind the rise of his and i is a need i am a phobia in france that is a documentary that will probably take weeks to actually put together but if you could to characterize it for us what would she say. Well from where to start really unfortunately 10 will soon be a tree is not near what. I mean if you really want to understand its history you have to go back to to a colony of france and especially in north africa where muslims were not even considered french citizens either time you know gerry especially but indigenous and where related to do not apply to them because of playing like french secularism to the most ns would mean giving them the same right and the same status as you know other french citizens. After decades of musician we had an influx of immigrants. You know after 962 and. The view that muslim is slum cannot be part of the west that there is a sort of. You know for a bit of muslims coming to take all over you know but the if like musician of europe this smear that basically is like muslims cannot integrate has been growing for quite a long time and especially since the nineteens with the 1st cases of headscarf 3 years ago the meadow was utilized and this is where we so on a legal level or a. Mainstream. News like this where your board of bigotry is so lazy to have for example that implies a state neutrality towards religion that protects religious freedom by imposing state and you know religious neutrality upon the state have now been weaponized and use that a Political Tool for political identity reasons targets muslims and try to make them invincible in the Public Square so we have some room thank you you do that so beautifully and so tightly a movie also has another idea of why theres so much islamophobia in front and shes pointing the finger at politicians and the leadership of this or that the. Board out in some people is the most got behind them millions. And blame muslims for work hard and not. Just a failure and so all the time for moving with or. The will divide as we have to believe against him of isnt unfortunately this is not what is happening racist and some of the political figures use these mass as evidence to appear in the media in hatred and thats made me really angry yes or is that fair to say that france is politicians or some of them are flooding the flames of islamophobia is that possible. Actually i tend to disagree with the close here with all due respect but also for who says that islamophobia in france comes from the top and its because of the elites already there was definitely a grassroots acceptance office time of year and you would see it oftentimes in the interaction between gigs that diaries are with the end to no lies idea or types of bad you know what arabs are about what people are about but asian people are about for example for example well for example a dot in the arab is framed as a thief or the arab woman is framed as a woman who needs to be freed of the black people black people are free and you know you would like you know theyre good at sports eccentric and oftentimes you see the intellectual subjects for example when you are in school are oftentimes a kept away from the unknown white kids i went through it myself and you know throughout my my school you know my smile might made occasion years in the public schooling system it was constantly there from that to push me out a system to like you know learn like you know to become electrician number they called in my parents and i want to become a pirate for if since i was in Primary School and to them it wasnt acceptable that iraq would be abided but i dont want to know to keep it all on this i want to just you know bounce back on what the reams said in terms of how. No odds its own architecture and unlike what many people think abroad for the past 30 years it predominantly came from the left and there were what you call the secular fundamentalists you know in french were the 1st ones and again as him said the one in the early ninetys were the forest you know opens a going for the bending of the headscarf in Public Schools and of course despite the council of the state which is the highest at least where people throw it in front saying no kids have a right to wear their headscarf in schools no they manage within 15 years there when. From being a loud minority to being a majority capable of busting this just nation in today as the the lady said that just before me who did you not only used to cover up your government screw ups. Pardon my language now the same term to always find the perfect good go through it to nationally going to meet with National Security threats or National Identity and thats what it is very difficult to dismantle because there is a deep profound architecture not only for any muslims are the problem but miss denning of them are such anything done i just yemenis go ahead. And jump in on that theres like a little anecdote id like to share with you guys i mean in 2000 and late 2680070 i was doing a little work with the former Prime Ministers Office manual of all this office on their counter Narrative Campaign it was basically a social Media Campaign to try to curb radicalization that was called stop. And i told them very frankly that this is not going to work this is a subversive a movement that sees themselves antiestablishment and here they govern government sponsored websites with the french flag on the corner trying to tell them not to radicalise that this is ludicrous and its not going to have any impact and they said to me oh we know this is a counter Radicalization Campaign although its talking about jihadism what were actually trying to do is curb the far right because the far right will say were not doing enough if were not doing the sort of active handwaving act that seems like were strong and muscular and anti jarvis linked radicalization and so were doing it to calm them down so this is a common theme that a lot of politicians believe if i can come out an acolyte i am very against what the job that are doing it will keep the right wing calm however if you look at whats happened the United States donald trump came into into office and he started fanning more of this. Rhetoric it didnt it didnt have the scope for a dick effect that everyone thinks as it actually fanned the flames even more because it normalizes this kind of language and it gave people permission to think some of these thoughts are expressed some of these books so the very hypotheses that a lot of prime ministers and president s and chancellors use that if i just come out and say some of what the right wing is thinking then the right wing will be placated just doesnt seem to be borne out by the evidence. In fact if i may because i find it go to extremely fascinating and relevant. Basically today in france. And train muslim bigotry. Is now a Business Model they monetize on these fear. And basically today for example we have an equivalent of fox news in france it seems and this narrative has been so diva war that nobody is questioning it anymore and muslims has been left completely out of the conversation and what i dont find extremely worrying is how you know we say we need to prove that we need to fight the fire right dick cetera but i always say the fire it may not be in power indeed but it spirit is. There research and normalization of the feeling that even a question becomes a bit like they think youre suspicious if you start questioning it you know putting. Going after Civil Liberties going after the basic notion in many pleading lace today we use later to for everything and nothing and i honestly think its its extremely worrying and dangerous in the latest events unfortunately have proven that so thank you for showing this anecdote because i think its really speaks volume get i feel like we have had islamophobia conversations about france so many times but im just picking up on this my basher a tweet that you shared after each terrorist attack there was no question about the failures of the state that fails to stop these attacks instead to state scapegoats muslims and takes more power all the while violating peoples human rights if were looking at this from a counterterrorism perspective nephis. Help us from lets deal with this what are they to. Well i think the problem is not to look at a necessarily just as a Counter Terrorism perspective that actually is the way the french government went to look at it very much in terms of police and intelligence mess to clean intelligence and military abroad what the french government is a hard time investing as much effort there although it doesnt but some effort then is counter and violent extremism or countering radicalization or preventing violent extremism different words but basically it all kind of comes down to we have to change the susceptibility of society in the 1st place to extremist narratives and that susceptibility a lot of distrust actually what does that mean machines that what is that so partially so partially what most governments ocus on is what they call counter narrative that these messages they just put out on websites and hoping that someone will be attracted to it because they assume that the reason why people like terrorist groups or whatever is because of the propaganda thats just naive. An Extremist Organization offer someone so many things that offers them identity and offers them a sense of belonging an actual brotherhood and sisterhood and offers them a pathway to purpose and meaning ive talked to multiple people who want to use those who joined who went to syria to join i was there almost for and the one thing they said is what you want me to do become a become a bagger in a Grocery Store or go potentially be a revolutionary whos going to go change the world theyre being all theyre being offered the opportunity to plus press reset on the video game of life and to come back as a better character with a whole new life and so i mean you cant like completely offer exactly that to just normal things and but if you leave start funding Civil Society organizations and n. G. O. S and so forth who are at least are trying to offer people in these local communities think about this the majority of people who went to syria to go join isis came from just 10 neighborhoods in france that you dont need to do and nationwide program here why not invest a little bit of those efforts in france i was in lieu know the city that had the highest per capita rate of people who went to syria and i was going around talking and there was police. And there were Intelligence Agency surveillance people but there was pretty much no prevention or accountant Violent Extremism Program there was one people who by the organization i met the guy who ran it you could hear 27000 euro a year the pay him though and the pay the overhead of building how is he actually going to combat radicalization among the that kind of budget i want to bring in 1. 00 more voice for the french people that we spoke to and listens damian and damian was how he was trying to be hopeful i havent had so initially between france and islam is very complex and if i want to speak about to propose and we need to if you were speaking about secure his or speaking about couldnt you know about still he best for me in friends and speaking about poverty but yes the situation is very tense with a lot of islamophobia among the population and among political leader us and the right ends a far right most cliche but for the there is also people also a lot of fringe peoples who stands against zuma so for go and who stands for peace and so. Just looking at some of the comments here on new cheaper allow hi her lao thanks for being part of the conversation she is wondering why france is blaming islam or says im french you will never have unity and harmony in this country as long as this freedom of speech is used to create scandal and sion and liz asked is the french secular law they are ive put that in there because she said i forgot the official name for it applied equally to all religions is there some movement to adjust it a lot is really what you are saying is it almost been used to weaponize. An idea which is supposed to protect people of all face and its been used to weaponize it this is a pressing conversation room and fisa and. Youre back here again talking about the same thing is this a different time from the last time we spoke to you. We are submitting of the show is this a is this a breaking point for france is it just briefly i think it is because when you see the amount of or the emerging poor layers of education being biased and i think and i agree or what i do you know if you did not see is that when the the government of mobile virus has been a notorious double forward for the bust in at least a you know 15 years or is that the next lost the battle of ideas because since you have been carrying the ideas of the 4 white new pushing for more security measures your identity syria they lift that seed they have adopted the mindset of the forward thinking they can you know beat them in their own game the other problem is not that simple it was so youre going to counter you know whatever what they could i was ition they think is a they want to tackle they have legitimacy whatsoever you cannot through islam of alexander one morning yes i did as well yes wrapping up finisher so it was just just one point is that there was a Domestic Intelligence report you know publishing 24000 it said that the repression model is a failure we need to reach out to communities the june reports it means of this approach based on blaming and repressing is not working within the government then also my own nasa and were going to make it theres always more to say in a feast thank you very much from south we thank you i will i rish that i never have to have you on the stream ever again to talk about this topic but i know thats probably not the case thank you so much there for fane part of this conversation and all safe a thing on each day for us as well each of us appreciate you very much all right so coming up next we have an Instagram Live guest at 2030 g. M. T. Have a look a on my laptop you may well recognize and her name is mel if to seem he is going to be joining us to talk about frogs and life in france as a muslim you may remember her from an amazing rendition of our year he did it in arabic and farsi. Version of the voice 2030 g. M. T. On monday on instagram look forward to seeing that if i if you cant make it on. Instagram for a stray im hoping that when you pass by so watching everybody see you next. Business leaders want to buy no brush paul. Its your. Business leaders to buy no brush paul. Knows. You drive toward the hiking boots or theres none you dont learn about loggers might somehow snap in august might lose. Interest in an 18 year old monk brown was going down for the one responsible for some its really. Not a. Lot to learn to. Run to make it in my city are your arms they represent i was a hands on child working in asia and africa thered be days where id be choosing editing my own story isnt a refugee camp with no electricity and right now were confronting some of the greatest challenges that humanity has ever faced and i read. We believe that the only way we can do that is with compassion and generosity and compromise because up the only way we can try to solve any of these problems is together thats why al jazeera is so important we make those connections. Or or the way. I know i Maryam Namazie in london we start this update with actually developing story coming to us now from austria where its being reported a Large Police Deployment is underway in central vienna off the shots were fired on a synagogue a local newspaper is saying the attack was on the street that houses the main synagogue in that city its on all the media reported shots fired in the area of a nearby square of splats thats the name of the square are also reports of multiple injuries so we will stay across that story and bring you more information as it comes into us for of course all the headlines this hour that being the eve of the u. S. Election of course the