Were march against the monarchy in thailand and its amounts for political reform the protests have been the biggest in years so what can the government do to quell this growing anger and what does this mean for thailands king this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im how he had seen a wave of protests as gripped thailand since february its been led by the young mostly 1st time voters who say they want to modernize them want to keep over the weekends tens of thousands of people in the park used for want to ceremonies and they cemented a plug in the grand palace that expresses what they say is the peoples will the protesters also hands its over a letter with their its a monster to the boil guards well these demands include the removal of Prime Minister. Hes a former army general who came to power in a coup in 2014 and wanted to spaces election last year they also want to parliaments dissolves and new elections to be held there demanding that the constitution which was drafted by the military be rebirths in also included in this charter is an end to the intimidation of dissidents and a very sensitive to. Months that has long been unthinkable in thailands reform of the monarchy the thai king is widely revered and criticizing him can carry a prison sentence of up to 15 years. Hard labor often hard yeah i think the 10 demands is heading towards a clear direction its about being able to speak about things that he dont dare to talk about a true democracy means that no power alone could stay above us we cant be afraid of we are afraid this means we are suppressed by some sort of power carlyon know not only these demands do not propose to get rid of the monarchy they propose those with good intentions to make the institution of the monarchy remain graciously above the people under democratic rule but more than we have installation of the plug is for everyone to be aware that we want to have a true democracy given back to us to reform the monarchy and truly keep the institution under a democratic constitution. Well more process are june later this week and in the issue as general strike is g to be held in october when he has more from outside the grand palace in bangkok. Well the significance 1st of all is the location where the protest was held tens of thousands of people turning out on saturday and where this park has been play some of the wiring which is the part that you mentioned just across the road from the grand palace its a Historic Site its been the scene of many royal ceremonies for centuries and it used to be a place that was open to the general public to use during the day as well but in recent years thats not been the case its been off limits to the public so the protest leaders made it clear that that was one of their targets they wanted to retake this park for the people and thats exactly what they did and in the early hours of sunday morning they dug up a section of the concrete in the park and place this plaque into that area and now the significance of the park itself is that it commemorates the 1932 revolution that turned thailand from an absolutely. A mickey into a constitutional one for the parks is that thailand is for the people not just for the king 3 years ago an official park in another location nearby mysteriously disappeared overnight so that was seen by many certainly the protesters here and as another sign that the king was strengthening his power and perhaps turning thailand back into an absolute monarchy again. Well lets bring in our guests all of whom are joining us from bangkok 1st up we have parents were childless in the finder of the Progressive Constitution Group a former politician and from bangkok jade devine of it is the chairman of the faculty of law at the college of asian scholars thank you both for joining us here on inside story. First so if you could explain to me what are the main demands of the protesters what are driving them because there seem to be a couple of competing narratives parrott let me start with you what do you think is driving these protesters. Sure i think the 1st thing we need to understand is that yesterday is not just a solitary event or solitary protest but its one of a series of protests that have been staged over the past 2 or 3 months and its not been its not all been organized by one single group but each time is organized by a Different Group so it is natural that with this decentralized nature of the way the protests have happened that the demands and and the interests of each group may differ slightly but i think one Common Ground that we are seeing and we are hearing from all the protests that weve seen in the past is their wish to see thailand become affordable crecy or what they believe should be of for democracy under the principles of Constitutional Monarchy which they feel that with the current constitution and with the current Political Climate thailand falls short of that ok kid i understand that you were an advisor when this cons the current constitution was being drafted. What how do you see these protests what do you think is driving these process right now and do you recognize anything in the the current constitution that you think perhaps needs to be updated her amended i used to understand the same as i or it has just said that they were wanting true democracy. They want Constitutional Monarchy as well as democracy with the king as head of state under the constitution i think that was i used to understand but from yesterday as well as today that movements. At proposed and had done so many things that now im not so sure i day still wanting what they were formally proposing it seems and it sounds like they are wanting democracy but i am not sure about with the king as head of state under the constitution and im not so sure are they wanting Constitutional Monarchy are they just wanting constitution because from what they were saying yesterday especially on this stage hitting a pond the institution hitting upon the king im not so sure whether i understand it the same as i read was just saying and as i used to understand them and parrot lets lets us ask you then do you think the protestors do still want a Constitutional Monarchy because there there have been some coals within this disparate protest movements that are wanting to push further than that is the monarchy still important to the thai people. I think im on a here still very important to thai people but a thing what. What you need to understand is that yesterdays group in particular is one of a series of groups or one of many groups that have come out to protest and this group in particular has been one that has probably been against morse and violence in terms of talking about proposals to reform the monarchy so i think 2 things to to bear in mind the number one is if you look at the content of the 10 proposals that the protesters have submitted on reforming the monarchy they are still in line with a system of Constitutional Monarchy so i think regardless of their kind of true intentions or their true believes at least the concrete proposals that have come out the content of the proposals do not go beyond what i believe its a system of Constitutional Monarchy but i think as i mentioned a 2nd point to bear in mind is that yes this group is one of many groups that have been campaigning i mean protesting against the government and if you look at the content of what the other groups have been saying i think one common line and you see one Common Ground between each group is a call for constitutional amendment and a drafting of a new constitution that is drafted by the people and is in line with global democratic standards so i dont think its fair to kind of paint what the feeling of the sentiments of all groups of protesters a feeling based on just like the content of what was said yesterday ok so so if we take a look at. Your part of an organization that wants a constitutional amendments what kind of amendments are you looking for what is the situation that you dont have nice that you would like to see in the in the future. Sure i think 2 kind of key issues with this current constitution one is the origin and a process by which just constitution was was drafted and ratified it was drafted doing a period where the military government was in charge and Hence Limited limited participation by the public was involved in the sense that there were no farms being held to ask what people were thinking or what people wanted to see in the constitution and when the draft was eventually put to the public via a referendum to ratify the constitution it was a referendum that was done was against falls short of democratic standards in a sense that it was not a free and fair referendum decided wanted to reject this was and was not allowed to campaign freely under what china just being made against people who came out in opposition to this draft so even though it did pass a referendum that was held with a 60 percent majority score a lot of people unhappy with the way the referendum was conducted so thats 111 kind of key problem with this constitution in the sense that people in thailand dont feel a sense of ownership or feel a sense of participation they were involved in this indias in destructing process ok but the 2nd key issue with the current constitution is actually the content of the constitution as well regardless of how it came about if you look at the articles that are drafted in the constitution there are several areas where weve seen Democratic Values decline i think the most striking one of which is the power and the origin of the power and a Selection Process of the 250. 00 senators that currently sit in parliament they are appointed by the military themselves and they have the power to even choose who becomes Prime Minister alongside of 500. 00 elected m. P. s which means that you could potentially get a Prime Minister that does not gather the support of the majority of the people by an election but then propped up by these 250 military appointed centers ok let me ask you then a couple quick questions on that one is thailand a democracy and 2 if thailand is a democracy why is that there is such an involvement of by the military in the parliamentary process well i think thailand is democracy but let me let me come to it but what were saying ok what were saying d i think. About the constitution referendum that i can agree with about Public Participation about. Free and fair and all those things that great was saying but i think it was contradicting himself that when you started about the movement yesterday and today that it is sort of a solitary of many many groups and they were wanting pretty much the same but when i said that im not so sure whether what i used to believe that they were wanting is actually not that what they are really wanting or it was saying that well you know that there are so many groups and thats only one group who said so on and so forth so i think this contradictory must be cleared out that whether or not all the groups are in solitare or whether or not all the groups are in this group and sees ok but to answer your question about whether or not thailand is democracy of course thailand is democracy but if youre asking me why the military got in was in in so Many Public Affairs so many Governmental Affairs i think thats a problem of the military and i think that is something that we have to do away with in this country ever since 1932 the military got together with the civilian and took down his majesty king around under 7 and ever since they were trying to. Fight trying to hack each other and trying to steal the power from each other we have always bad politicians we have always bad military and thats why our country is at this point so if youre asking me whether or not we are democracy we are democracy but the politicians as well as the military keep on helping each other hurting the country over and over so i think thats our problem and we have to do away with that were not talking about whether or not the monarchy is good or not whether we have a constitution which is good or not but were talking about whether or not we can do away with bad politician whether or not we can do it with bad military and i think thats what we have to do with my question my my my rebuttal then to you jade would be charlie its the people. Should be deciding how to deal with the bad politicians and in a democratic system the people decide how to deal with bad politicians buy votes in the mad elections the issue into islands you could argue is that the politicians arent even getting to the selection points there was a very Popular Party i understand popular feature Forward Party you werent even allowed to stand and it wasnt the people making that decision it was the the governments in the military making the decision that they couldnt stand well i think over all if you look into the constitution for example the electoral system the electoral system was made fairly the couple lation yes probably the Election Commission did not tell how to calculate from the beginning but the cut the nation has nothing wrong and the 2nd thing and that period was horse racing yes i agree that its under marketed to have the senators to help electing the Prime Minister but actually in the house in the lower house they are already out number if compared to the opposition ok so so overall if you look into the constitution yes there are so many undemocratic things but there are also many marketing issues in there so also we are we talking about the sense in which the military is getting in was wrongly are we talking about whether or not quality just are not able to do anything with the bullets finds a pirate what would you say the issue is year is the issue to the military or bad politicians to gte. Let me 1st clarify i think what perhaps professor misunderstood what i was saying i think what i was saying is that in thailand at the moment a lot of Group Protesters have been campaigning for for various things i think of the protests yesterday we even heard issues like same sex marriage issues like womens rights being raised as well amongst this multitude of issues that have been raised what i was trying to say is that one common theme that at least binds each group together is a wish for a new constitution to be drafted that is in line with democratic stand it so thats why i was saying that to to paint to say that everyone has been protesting has been protesting about reforms of the monarchy i think its an unfair representation of the true picture although i do admit that there are some proposals that do touch upon reforming the monarchy what professor mathematically may seem correct understands that even in the lower house the government the Prime Minister and a governing party at the moment controls modern half of the m. P. s in the lower house but i think we cannot judge whether a country is democratic based on what the Current Situation is like and what a number of m. P. s. In the 2 houses of parliament are like but we dont need to judge it based on the system and if you look at the rules of the system we have 250 we have 750 people who have the power to choose a Prime Minister 500 m. P. s elected from 38000000 people that gives each person individual person like me and professor chait a power of not quite not not not not one to 7 percent in terms of deciding who becomes Prime Minister but on the other hand you have 250 military appointed senators who are appointed by a committee of 10 people which means that one of those 10 people actually has the power of 3. 3 percent to elect who becomes Prime Minister if you take 3. 3 percent and divide it by not point not not not not not 17 percent what you get is an answer of 2000000 which means that at the moment a general member of the population has 2000000 fewer power to miller less power than a member of the Senate Election commit. Which by the way includes members of the current government so i think if you ask me whether this country is democratic or not i think provided we still have a system whereby you have these 250 soldiers coming in to elect Prime Minister i dont think its fair to say that thailand is a for democracy the reason i raise the issue of is thailands democracy or not is because there have been so many coup detat and after the most recent coup detat when the Prime Minister was took power and became the leader and he promised elections and it took years for those elections to to come forward and mainly have criticized the validity of those elections and the one constant appears to be the involvement of the military. Let me put it to you professor jades do you think its time for the military to step back from politics and to let the people elect the government they want even if the government wants to elect a party that the military dont like what i think if it has been time long ago that the military should step out of politics but not when that happens it is my point but it is right but i under stand and i shared a point that was was raising that having the senate electing a Prime Minister is totally democracy clee wrong ok so so in that sense but you see because the military always stepped in to this action into the picture of democracy and they were so impatient and they if thought they were d sort of the constitution protect the or be the National Protect the something which i also share with period that that is something totally wrong but the problem here that we see not only in this country is that once someone stage a coup the person who succeeded in staging a coup will take over the sovereign power of the country that means that person becomes the solver and him herself and in this country in thailand i always said over and over that when the military took over the government they are not only d taking over the government they also took over the kings pure rocketed. They are pretty much the operative the Royal Prerogative themself they turned himself into law and this is true in every country that if someone stage a coup and it was succeeded that person took over saul are in power so we have to do away with this and i totally agree that we have to do something with the military and if the military keeps on doing this we can never be all fledged democracy i shared it with for it ok so what would the solution be because weve seen in various. Protests that have been happening for a number of years in the past the process seems to have been divided since along the lines of supporting one political leader versus supporting another these protesters seem very different in that they dont seem to be against different political leaders they seem to be against the system of governance on the whole and it does seem to fold in a long generational line so these seem to be driven to an outsiders perspective i look at the pictures on the Television Screens i see a lot of young people protesting and not the diversity of ages and generations that previous protests have seen i just like to get a perspective from both of you here do you think this generational divides represent something of a more fundamental challenge to the way thailand is run in the future. Partners if i could start with you. Sure thing you you hit the right point in saying that. A couple of unique things about this protest number one is that the demands are not related to any particular person theyre not trying to oppose a person or theyre not trying to put a person vote on in power but they want to actually change the system in the game in which this is played sort of thing youre right theres just a unique feature of what were seeing with these protests and then youre also correct in saying that part of it maybe to do with the general generational divide i think the youth of thailand is going up in a in a in a period where they can access information much more freely via social media they can Access International media sources as well which make them feel slightly more in line with the rest of the world and just being being fed information through local media so i think its only natural that they are slightly kind of more aligned with Democratic Values that its see across the world and liberal Democratic Values that they see across the world ok when i went to the protest yesterday i mean i have to say that i dont think it consisted of just the youth population but of people across all age groups and across party lines as well who want to see a country return to a 4 democracy saw i guess generational divide may have some part to play about it fully explains the picture of what were seeing here in thailand ok if we take that as read then do you see how much of a stretch would you say these protests pools to to the current political status school do you think this will lead to a change what i think i think its partially true what it was was racing that the man was asking for reform of the system and i i see that there were many points made about constitutional reform about whether the military chip mean was in politics about whether we should have. The rule of law and all these other things also i see but the fundamental meant and i think the bricks and. More to that that i have also seen is that if the attack is they rickly on the government on bad government backed politicians on to do away d with the military from politics and constitutional reform amendments of the constitution that i will share almost everything with the movement but the one thing that i disagree sharply and i feel that that might be the main point that part of the d Movement Part of the movement yesterday as well as today was really wanting is to attack to regulate to the monarchy and direct they regularly to his majesty the king that i totally and charlie disagree and thats what ive seen through many many of the movements yesterday as well and i disapproved that if they do away with that. Then it should be fine for the movement ok and just finally in the final 10 seconds pirates do you think these calls for reform of the monarchy risk undermining the protest movement i think what we have to try and establish 1st is a right to free speech in thailand which means that i do admit that the monarchy is an institution that is respected by a large section of the population in thailand including Professor James but i think what we need to establish 1st as a Common Ground as a consensus is that everyone should have a right to express their opinions in a peaceful way ok and we have bring that discussion to a close thank you to both our guests parents watch out of sin and jade janov and they can thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting the website aljazeera dot com and for more discussion head to our Facebook Page facebook dot com forward slash a. J. 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