Coming up next. World it will be. Good to see you. On the previous episode of talk to al jazeera i hope the afghans are paying attention learning the lesson of that period we started in the ever learned of the us. And thats why weve started the Peace Process a lot of that stake were watching them were going to monitor these negotiations and well help with that help when needed but ultimately now were in a different phase and wish the afghans of in the end the siege they cant blame the United States they cant blame other. After nearly 2 decades of conflict the warring sides in a are finally talking to each other here in the capital that have been more than 400. 00 attacks since the deal was signed between the u. S. And Taliban Forces and thousands of afghans have been killed back in afghanistan although there is hope being shown by both sides here but a trust deficit and wide ranging disagreements between them still exist on this episode we talk to the monday presenting the Afghan Government at the negotiating table the chairman of the high council for National Reconciliation talks to al jazeera. Chairman High Peace Council for National Reconciliation thank you very much for talking with us here. After the longest running us war 2 decades of conflict a lot of fun will be left sort of guns to sort out you call it a historic occasion as it. I dont think that that would really like you to lift completely for the afghans to solve it but at the same time the negotiations has to be. Afghan led to an afghan on. I wouldnt think that the whole world will disengage itself from afghanistan. It will continue but it might have it may take different shape in a peaceful afghanistan and you might see more Foreign Investment board developmental activities and more opportunities for us and also for a region. Yes i need a country trying to impose its own way or system over there and we had a nation that that has not proved successful if thats the meaning of were leaving afghanistan for the south we are we are fine with that we need to we need to find their way in create a system that we can leave we can live in peace within and without you talking to the taliban now. At a situation where it has been one of the bloodiest years in the 20 is nearly 20 years of conflict. The taliban are making advances to europe and tested hometown of print share in the last few days. What gives you hope that this time around it is going to be different this time around youre going to be able to convince them and they are going to be able to convince you. If there is one listen out of the recent history of afghanistan recent past 2 for dickys thats that the it he did is no military solution and our hope is that both sides have recognized this and then what to do is the next issue you referred to to appreciate valley in an incident a few days ago that was. Pressure bowed to some other provinces in one of those crossing point one incident had taken place no casualties from any sides some reason balik a mess like sending others that the right message to send that this is stage will be that we want we have different views we have different vision for the country but we want to make peace with one and that in order to help our own people. That will be direct message our hope is of the will of the Afghan People and the desire of the people in also on the on the wisdom of the leaders on all sides that to look at the situation can we continue in how long for example in the past there was a situation where the taliban were in control of the 2 percent of the site it to 5 percent of the store. Did that that situation put an end to 2 world in late 2 to one side overcoming india theres wiped out no. Post that situation the world continued for that 20 s. So these are these are the lessons. Learned from the recent history of afghanistan and also look at the suffering of the people look at the losses of the people look at the pay. Again the people of. Tolerating referred to the numbers in the past few months only since the signing of the agreement between the taliban in the United States which was. Which was the main fundamental reason. That the 2 cannon situation that we were talking to one and that that is still there when i am talking about the number of casualties its high on both sides not just one side in. 2 to cue the wounds of the people to recover will be sign of strength not inflicting casualties on the people ill go to the u. S. Agreement in a minute but for people who havent watched the afghan conflict closely for the last 2 decades describe to us the significance of a former foreign minister then the Vice President sitting face to face with the cofounder of the Afghan Taliban what does this mean for afghanistan and the Afghan People. It means that we have we heard in the in a different a stage in our history. It means that hopefully god willing. History will be made in a chapter in the history is about to to thats the thats the significance of that. In this this moment what is the future of afghanistan is it an emirate is it a public. Defeat of afghanistan will be the one the one which which can sustain itself which can lead to to do real peace and stability will do will depend on the will of the people on the right of to citizens to participate to boot into troops well you are the strongest sides representing those people so it kind of narrows down to your decisions that you make on these negotiating tables right. I mean both sides at least to come to a shared point of view in also had to agree that this is this is the real forward thats the key thats the crux of the matter as the equality that both sides should see the need and also should should come to a realisation that we should put the people 1st and we are in a situation that we cannot cannot ignore the will of the people so which one. But which one puts people 1st is it the emirate or is it the republic it can be both. The way that i dont want to put the 2 to sort of the side for the negotiating team which is not just the public of on a sub representatives of them but also that it presented serves of the Taliban Movement but the main thing is that the will of the people should be should be exercised in a freeway one person one vote is important then. To follow to come to terms with names will not be will not be will not be difficult. People focus on the differences between you and the taliban and i want to focus on the opposite here the afghan constitution for instance says that there can be no legislation which would go against islam. The power structure of the Islamic Republic of ghana stand gives power to the president he can hire fire move and do things that will which is kind of very similar to what the taliban want on the basis of it if you look at oversimple of looked look to it as an oversimplified view how difficult would it be for you to change the constitution of that its time. To change the constitution of persecution of afghanistan there are provisions in the constitution itself the issue is that. The issues are also for is for the design for the interest of the country to try to get dippy people to get that in the country to get theirs in the unified manner so i mean mentor to close it to shame is not possible what about the Security Forces what happens to the any what happens to the taliban fighters because there has been so much blood that has been shared between these 2 sides the highest number of casualties in afghanistan have been afghan Security Forces. How do you get them to reconcile the country Needs National institutions. National Army National police or any other Security Sector if the country needs that. And then we are in a situation that we have Afghan National army in the taliban combatants how to train to create how to how to how to get to Security Sector reform in also addressing in practical way in manner the actual realities which exist in their country these are of the painstaking. Hard to work which is ahead of both teams to whats the blueprint here the blueprint if a see if they give you a blueprint today and then tomorrow taliban will say that no this is not us it doesnt work in negotiations the blueprint has to be decided between both sides. The easiest way the one which gets us with this complication should we should be choosing in there should be conditions or preconditions a section i spoke to the taliban before coming into the room and they i asked them whether there is what are the sides what are the lines that they have drawn and you talked about humanitarian truce and a cease fire for at least for the time being so that there can be access for humanitarian purposes but the talibans insistence is that according to the agreement that theyve signed with the u. S. There needs to be a governing body which the taliban are either a part of or agree upon and after that there could be a ceasefire so its kind of a catch 22. 00 isnt it which comes 1st. The interests of their country should come 1st which one is it the interests of the countries in. Reducing their violence to a very significant level and also getting to 2 to a cease fire because. When i talk about the number of casualties its not just in one site its in both sides and its unfortunate and its a burden on the next generations i remember during the resistance will jihad against the soviets which i was part of that later trauma suit when when when when there will be prisoners taken in to the regime to be very angry because they would have given casualties will your friends. Martyred because of those fightings from the from the other side which you were calling the enemies and there was a tendency in makes me jaded that take revenge but im on the masood was saying that look. The their families to take care of it they have this long in the war has gone for so many years if you leave that so many victims in casualties. This countrys resources will not be sufficient to address all these needs of these challenges that we are adding on top of the challenges that the country or did he has but you cant but you cant simply just look away from so much killing that has happened and especially in the part of that world where there is a very tribal system and revenge does exist for generations is there going to be a truth and Reconciliation Commission how are you going to resolve these but very real issues the amount that the afghans have taken in their history including this recent history there was no sense of revenge duels for members of the former regime of very high wealth or a tease amongst them was just poured and it wasnt like the people who were dressed there were less than. A handful less than perhaps 2 or 3 cases where people were assessed and to being taken on a personal basis just of them were part of the society we had hundreds of thousands of members of the communist regime at that time nobody took to avenge against them so that is also. Something that that we can we can we can defer to. You know to to you know to to see the future more clearly with more clarity your country hosts have said there cant be victors are vanquished pompei or said that this will only move forward when steer our sacrifices and all sides are willing to make sacrifices for your sacrifices what are you willing to give before getting to the future what needs to be there the fact that. 5000 prisoners have been released. From the list the taliban have provided with a lot of opposition from your government with a lot of opposition from the people as well at the beginning but but you know the government with that it wouldnt have happened the deal was between the United States and the taliban but the United States has been indeed part of what afghanistan throughout it is still supporting afghanistan in continued support of honesty in the leaders are saying that theyre kemet it to support peaceful afghanistan post the situation. And there are pretty heavy files attached to those prisoners which are being released this was a hard decision this is an example. Things that needs to needs to be done will be there as a result of negotiations do will be back in for their ideas taliban will present their own agendas we will we will we do but as you does should lead us towards peaceful settlement so the this is a good example this is this was a very big decision that was even before the cease fire or significant reduction in violence so. Pieces of parity and without it will not come without the cost for you know all sides. The. Cost on the people because of the continuation of the war debate it will be in. Its only in that sort of situation that both sides could claim to be victors i myself mentioned today that there is no winner in the war and there is no loser. In truce of peaceful settlement but youre talking about negotiating with a partner they are now in the your negotiations partner the taliban does not recognize the Afghan Government it says it is a partner among many of the stakeholders of gonna stand it insists that it is going to make sure that its version of sharia law is in implemented it insists that what it has agreed upon with the u. S. As the u. S. Force the gun government to implement should be implemented so yes this will be music to the years of your Partners International partners but do you not think that this will embolden the taliban into making sure that their demands are met one way or the other to to think. That. To to to use the maximalist methods and tactics and think that that will get anybody any. Thing significant in terms of real legitimate interest based on the legitimate business and the broader interests of their country that would be a miscalculation to think that inflicts enough. Inflicting casualties upon the people will give you the upper hand if it is asked if it is and the other side that would be a big miscalculation. Good is an opportunity were getting to get there theres a lot happened in the past 30 years. Neatly through 2 years as the taliban have emerged that both sides while they are no not recognizing as all we dont could measure them as this law make immediate but as they need to get to get there to sit together to to present our views which are different from one another but to find the ways how to reconcile those differences how to find ways to be able to live together well maintaining some differences and fighting for it politically rather than through through violence thats the the listen learn from any conflict surely a conflict that you continue the war in the war through the war without without bringing in bringing it to an end true true true. Acceptable to 2 to the sides but youre on a on a ticking clock right now because the United States has given 14 months to before it withdraws there is a us election coming up but theres a lot of pressure from various actors who have influence in afghanistan so does that not may repeat that question does that not embolden the taliban and make your situation good we did could be situation where groups amongst the taliban may think that it is in there it is in their interest to to continue paschal show to talk and also to continue with the fighting but. I hope. To a certain extent i can assume that there are other people which are thinking much more mature early in that sense based on the experience of them bizarre not. Common experience that this is not the way forward the way forward the real. Interest of them asin ill tell you that afghanistan will rely on that on our ability to put men into due to this war what is the timeframe that youre working on. The. Referred to the us elections in the circumstances in the fact that the United States also looking at it with urgency its its. Its a bonus its a plus but i dont see that need more urgent need they need they need of the Afghan People. These people who live in the areas which are the taliban controlled they live in the areas which is the control of the the government of afghanistan and their. Hopes and desires or are the same. You cannot differentiate between the people decide to hold that site for us the most rigid the ticking clock is the is the continuation of the suffering of our people which has continued for so long on top of that we cannot ignore the conditions around this as well but. To be a miscalculation to turn it into into into a failure will be will be taking. Responsibility before the people which will be judged by the history very quickly i want you to also touch upon corruption we know that in the last 20 years warlords have become more powerful we hear the cigar reports really talk about 4 provinces where 70 percent of the Security Forces were ghost employees we talk about endemic corruption in institutions we also remember you taking in ended rival inauguration of president of president ship which had to be resolved by International Partners again so how are you going to make sure that the force that is in front of the taliban is a coherent united front without all of these differences which a lot of guns face on a day to day basis its important. A unified. Islamist republic will be in a match better position to negotiate. A new much needed to a new position to negotiate does not mean to take its feet. Illogically and without without any any logical basis but to present at the in also to represent the views of the majority of the people. Did our challenges of corruption which i have no doubt in my mind we dont have enough time to to to take the history of the past 20 years the mistakes that bass as africans in there your government or outside the government door and opposition all the mistakes made by partners in that in that sense but we are where we are today and the need of the days too to look at it differently that in tune with the lying on the false hope that if such a thing happens then we will have the operad then didnt do would kill and wipe out the other side. We should avoid that that that that line it sounds very sort of idealistic but i see no other way around it. The continuation of the war and suffering in lists in this way will not put anybody in a dignified position in this not a service through to the people. Im sure amongst the taliban leadership people who are thinking about it who are seen it gone through it for so many years and more than that they look at the people in the expectations of the people from all of us finally what does dr Abdullah Abdullah get out of this man your great great great grandchildren look back at this moment how do you want to be remembered by them if this leads to do rebuild dignified. Sustainable peace. Deal wouldnt be a bigger toward a personal we in also as a legacy should that materialize that in itself will be the biggest award to take and imagine if i was. In between a small room or or bigger factory in it then that thats theres the added advantage dr of the law of the lurch ehrman High Peace Council for National Reconciliation thank you very much for talking god with your. Corruption it is that invisible behind a wall of silence. In the heart of chicago corruption is not something to be told that this. Is going to african. Country his easy meal and lets destroy this war. In 2020 the free space award encourages the heroes who are fighting against corruption this helps our communities to save the resources that we need in order to address the burning problems that affect us all. Shine a light on your Anti Corruption hero. Nominate now. A life and death struggle for racial equality and a deeply on equal society fortunately that was a spy for the Apartheid Regime in that group may be very Close Friends like a fan getting together 50 years after his torch and death and Police Custody aljazeera while tells the remarkable story of antiapartheid campaigner. A rude south africa in mom who fought apartheid on aljazeera. Hello im Maryam Namazie in london our main story this hour democratic president ial nominee joe biden has Senate Republicans to do what is right following the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg speaking at a Campaign Event in pennsylvania he also said the late u. S. Supreme Court Justices wish not to be replaced until after the election should be on it President Trump has said that he will announce a nominee to replace that as early as next week the only rule ive ever fall related to the Supreme Court nomination was the constitutions obligation for senators to provide their advice and their consent
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