Guilty all the corruption for the malaysian Prime Minister a sentence of more than a decade in prison. For alleged involvement in the one and the scandal so could this be a step towards brought in malaysia and what if any of the political ramifications this is inside story. Thank you. Hello there and welcome to the program im noriko for you is the one m. T. B. Scandal has shaken malaysia billions of dollars were allegedly looted from a state fund set up to promote development of former Prime Minister was implicated as well as a network of Foreign Companies relations rule of law was put to the test on tuesday of a g brazil x. Involvement in the scandal he was found guilty of all 7 corruption charges and sentenced to 12 years in prison also being fined close to 50000000. 00 so the 1st of 5 corruption trials and is centered on the transfer of nearly 10000000. 00 from the state fund into the personal accounts he denies any wrongdoing and says he will appeal this is what najib had to say after the ruling. This is. Definitely not the end of the world. Because theres a process of appeal. And we hope that we would be successful that so. The effort but what continue and to my support this. I hope they will continue to believe in me believe in our struggle and continue to be in a positive and high speed. There as far as larry reports now from kuala lumpur tuesdays verdict makes not the 1st malaysian leader to be convicted of corruption now hes also been sentenced to serve up to 12 years in prison in order to pay a fine of 50000000. 00 but the judge has allowed a delay in carrying out of the jail sentence and the payment of the fine now the judge in reaching his verdict rejected his argument that he had been tricked by finances he also described the defense argument that knowledge was led to believe that the 10000000. 00 that appeared in his personal bank account was part of a donation from saudi arabia as an elaborate but weak fabrication. Faces dozens of other charges including charges of laundering 550000000. 00 from state Investment Fund one and b. And some analysts say that tuesdays conviction could strengthen the prosecutions case in those trials. Civil Society Groups and opposition politicians have fought for years to bring the Corruption Scandal in one m. T. B. To light but criminal proceedings against not chip only started when his party the United Malays National organization known as im know was voted out of power in a general election in 2018 and some analysts are also saying that this verdict could strengthen the credibility of Prime Minister justin who took power in february but it may also weaken his coalition because they rely very heavily on our nose to hold on to a very slim majority in parliament those are the political ramifications but for now a leader who was once thought untouchable is now being held to account for his actions although one Malaysia Development fund or one m d b was set up in 2009 when the jeepers act was Prime Minister malaysian and us will thirtys allege 4500000000 dollars were illegally transferred from it into offshore Bank Accounts and Shell Companies that money was traced to investments in Luxury Real Estate or private jets in the financing of hollywood films such as the wolf of wall street but he was accused of receiving more than a 1000000000. 00 from the fund his inner circle is also accused of graft the g. Was defeated in elections in 2018 amid growing anger over the allegations last week u. S. Bank Goldman Sachs reached a near 4000000000. 00 settlement with the malaysian government over its role in the scandal. Thank. You lets bring in our guests now and in kuala lumpur we have a son oh hes senior fellow with Singapore Institute of International Affairs and the former political secretary to nadine president in london we have clericals will brown she is an investor genesee help expose the one n. D. P. Scandal and also in kuala lumpur with a project welsh shes an ornery research and says yet at the university of nottingham malaysia campus a very warm welcome to all of you claire you spent years exposing this scandal how does it feel today to thena g being sentenced well how. I hate to sort of use the word vindication or you know i should i didnt want ever feels enormous delight at seeing someone who are will be faced with such punishments but i think malaysians deserve to have this crime identified for what it is and for a deterrent to be put in place so i think the situation i have now is of mixed feelings because of course not james still thinks he can work the system hes managed to get a stake so hes not even going to have to go to jail to fight his appeal. And hes going to carry swanning around in his Police Escort and speaking in parliament and the person he did was step out on the steps outside the court and with this with his lawyer cast aspersions on the judge effectively and continue to claim that hes innocent as terrorism said. He wasnt acting like a man whos just been brought down do you think najib expected this sentencing. Well i think before the sentencing to date did you know most r. A. T. s on all whites threat expectations because the serious off charges for example manini long varying criminal breach of trust and then be used as a power they shall we say quote unquote easier to prove than perhaps some of the charges which require a small string sawed off intend to requirements so yeah i would think at least hes de go team would have expected. At least the Money Laundering series off of diction and yet by for example his lawyer would have a lot of precedence in trying to mitigate. Fi sentencing to try to stay his sentences which were run by josh eventually bridget why do you think that you resigned could go to stay of jail today and in doing so has the wrong message being sent to malaysians. Well the stay is quite normal in other political cases and other such as on where you bring him that he was convicted there was a stay an appeal process so i think this is was expected and in fact the appeal process will go on for at least at least one year maybe 2 and given the fact that there are multiple trials coming i expect that this process of his jurisdictions issues will last for at least 5 years moving forward now of course malaysians are divided on this issue well most malaysians are are seeing this is the day of justice and the issues of corruption to be addressed a lot of malaysians do continue to have support not cheap and also have reservations about the cases be given that the country is politically polarized and he say this could go on for 5 years as appeals process been during which presumably brigitte the jeep can continue Walking Around free is continuing is free to continue practicing politics. Well the appeals process should be a couple years but he has other cases that are going to come forward and he wont be able to run for office for parliament is dissolved he will no longer be an m. P. Ok not able to run for office but how much power does the dean still run and wield behind the scenes. Well hes obviously been slapped with a huge fine and his son funds according to his lawyer in that are available to him in k. L. Have been frozen however he is regarded as someone who still has a great deal of wealth at his disposal and that counts in malaysia Money Politics is what practiced hes still regarded as a very powerful player and hes created this sort of cult i dont know how much of it is bought and how much of it is genuine but he speaks turned himself into a sort of victim figure. A champion of the malays course allegedly and it is playing you know playing to the gallery as you know as hard as he can to tip and this could become very destabilizing i think his is complete best card now is is to stir up political unrest. To to to benefit is a position and to urge for an election which i think he hopes that he can win where he wont have to try very hard to stop political Unrest Police and i mean the scandalous shake up malaysian politics the last 2 years more than weve seen in the last 60 years since independence what impact do you think this is going to have on this very shaky Ruling Coalition that doesnt involve no party. What awful fright exam oh oh so rival factions weve been know who perhaps not too obese least to see and not convicted despite fi show sympathy or empathy for a game sold you would see for example in the days to come s. Not g. It is at least temporarily in s. A tape. Politicly there will be a rush to try to feel is void 1st and foremost weve seen the ruling im no poppy itself and as such factions trying to just so far all power and try to come to a more political prominence. And this temporary receipt to background i think you would see very interesting Political Developments 1st of all weve been no and 2nd of all weve been the ruling National Coalition because no as was suggested as being very persistent in pushing for a general election eve day. In the interim. Struck oh wow that current Prime Minister missed the movie didnt made breath. A sort of a fresh in terms of not having so much pressure being on him by allen not to go for general election how safe is the prime is the moment we can position. Well in parliament he has only a number one or 2 majority and i think that is something that has been quite precarious there has not been an official vote of confidence despite him being in office for over 5 months that was a proxy vote to remove the speaker of parliament but not a vote of confidence i think in the next month that the parliament has to sit there will be some sort of vote whether or not it is an actual official vote of confidence or whether or not its a vote for example over the covert relief measures we will see but my sense is that he has more of a fighting chance of winning that vote that people appreciate there may be others that choose not to abstain or different alliances that emerge he just needs to get through this process before he has to hold another session of Parliament Later in the year and i have a feeling that and yes and well get through this because i think it has strengthened his hand despite how it looks that he that potentially there will be a defection from no and i think your son is correct imo its quite divided and not only is it divided there is also a court case going against of its president sahid how meaty so i think theyre going to be other issues that the party is going to have to face involving the issues of corruption ok a car you have an Anti Corruption website the sorrow at propose a place where you were born if malaysia a corrupt country over is this an isolated scandal. Well i dont think id be the only person to get to this is an isolated scandal id spent 5 years prior to coming coming only one n. D. P. Investigation. Veiling one corruption after another involving the ruling party and sarah its a major problem that malaysia needs to tackle to progress and i think its an interesting conundrum we have now because the americans have managed to retrieve roughly nearly 2000000000 in assets and that it is not liquid ac and the idea is that that money goes back and indeed to following the 2018 alexion a new government came in it starts at the ceiling these corrupt practices and going after people are not cheap in the courts. And the money started to flow back and then of course we now have a situation when really it is government is largely dependent on these 3. 00 characters including one g. And his party. A large number of whos leading lights are like saeed and. Facing various corruption charges linked to one and a b. And others so should the money continue to be going back to malaysia and i think thats a very strong argument to say no do you agree with that ethan well i think that a mormon malaysia was certainly need that amount of money on various africa or as a region mention coffee banking relief mattias and so on thats why you saw for example of a what a pos film on the government not that they appear to be. Willing to settle for less. When the question was then is where your money will be properly spent. The whole month i think the money would go for many of these. 19 relief measure what continue to be various allegations off our options subtly this is them up in countries the almost inevitably so but just how confident are you that malaysia will not see corruption on this scale again. Well i think you know corruption happens in developing and developed countries as well but i think this is somewhat unique because it is such a large amount of money you know 4500000000 its just certain parts of it involves other much maybe as much as 10000000000. 00 this is the largest kleptocracy case in the world and i think in part because of the success of this i think this is one of the reasons why youve seen this one president Development Today which is it former Prime Minister of this country was convicted and i think this actually is really sending not extensive how unique this is of this scale i think probably unlikely whether or not there continues to be issues in terms of corruption absolutely and then fact many of the concerns are there not enough checks in the current government to deal with the issues patronage issues of contracts that i think are still quite significant and thats why this is this decision is a 1st step and there and of many many steps that are needed to strengthen malaysias anticorruption measures azan you know james political secretary at the same time that one m d b was set up in 2009 but then no inkling amongst government that this was going on. Why thing at least initially when i worked for mr not git ss on it because secretary understanding all one and b b was to expand. What we call a special person vaiko 2 hands not just transform a nation manager you would like to for example go into some of them are advance Technology Technological fearless and so on and we thought that one n. D. P. Could be such a vaiko all the times are. Mostly off the i laughed well a lot of allegations has come out that frank sam oh. It was you fall for a diversion all fonts for various odd sometimes very private purposes ok why do you think that the deep thought that he could get away with pilfering such enormous sums of money. Malaysia is a very centralised it really reached a situation where not she had the most extraordinary control over every on the government he was a head of the on and ruling on it. He was the finance minister and Prime Minister and i think he just so you know he owned the country he could get away with anything and look if i hadnt broken this story from outside the country and then really sort of ended up you know we went through 2 years of utter denial might all not cheap scotty not one of the you know not one of the people who are accepting maybe that that. That hes corrupt very few were prepared to to do anything but you know vilify me vilify all the reporting even when the department of justice United States lodged court cases to retrieve the stolen money and laid out the money trails for everyone to see you know malaysia was still denying it they still not people to get away with it and it was it was this unexpected election result that brought it down but at what really worries me is the corruption were seeing return now that weve seen this recent coup of various factions of a link to i dont know and and a 1000000 and malaysia has been shocked again by blatant corrupt practices the offering a plum jobs to politicians you know in government late companies has been run cant youve seen that theyve been endless stories where m. P. s of come out and and confessed of the extraordinary sums that theyre being offered to switch parties in order to battle u. T. Its blatant corruption and very disappointing really after a period of trying to sort out the present moment is is is dependent on this kind of return and it proposes that and cut it to stop such a thing happening again to stop this corruption than just being talking about there really needs to be an atmosphere of free speech doesnt there not an atmosphere where with all those fail that they can be protected and you werent protected what of harassment did you fail and do you see other people facing similar situations similar threats. Well and of course journalists in malaysia that the crackdown again has has gone right back to how it was the worst of the last sort of lash back as he was trying to protect himself he was cracking down on malays on malaysian journalists he brought in one of the worlds 1st socalled faith news source and you know i know for a fact that journalists presently feeling once more very intimidated theyre being harassed that been threatened and gone after the whatever excuse. You know the authorities can come up with to accuse them of breaking this law and that and its very effective if youre if youre trapped in the jurisdiction it was bad not me being in london you know i had private investigators track me around town i was some tactic into i had to some vicious and expensive legal cases launched against me. And of course im a red notice for my extradition to malaysia to face all sorts of byzantine charges that would have put me in jail for 20 years so i think that it was lucky as any 12. Britain in a state of intimidation that clare describes is that very much the case in malaysia now that doesnt the bit about the state of democracy because of course the some very serious nor is that limited free speech in silence criticism to what extent they still being used. Well after the election in 2018 you could see a real change in the Political Climate where there was much more open space open discussion issues and this liberalization really has been reversed in the last few months by a number of activists and journalists being called in and of course and many of the issues that have been reported for example on Migrant Workers their news of news organizations like al jazeera have also been targeted so there is a deep sense of insecurity within this current government and how its being perceived and of course the journalists and critics are seen to be targeted and i think this is quite normal in malaysian politics when there is high intensity periods of insecurity as there are now but it is also something that is highly polarizing so in the sense that it actually is provoking very strong reactions from malaysians so many are outraged by the attacks and and of course the sense of wanting to curb space its seen as a sign of weakness not strength and i think were going to see this continued period of uncertainty not necessarily be a good one for journalists because of the high levels of sensitivities given the fact that the divisions within the malays community are very sharp and there are no clear sense of who is going to win the only thing that we fighting today is who is going to lose and in this process that jeep is not doing well. Just one last question to you najib is the walking free as we as weve discussed waiting the appeals process do you think the malaysians feel that hes ever going to be put behind bars. Well i think. Long and your process as i read your suggest that an ultimate leak would offer a pew to. Fall upon a commutation of these sentences so all in that sense i think youll be at least a long time before we see. That really put behind bars if at all and that. To some of the more shall we say publicly aware or awakened citizenry in malaysia is something terribly disappointing because they would like to see justice being served but of course the east on the other hand. Not haha supporters who see him being framed so parise asian all for malaysian politics indeed runs deep in society told the reins of malaysia in a moment ok many thanks to all our guests for joining us today in sun. Brown and bridget. And thank you to you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website thats on to 0 dot com for that its gotten to go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com for slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at a. J. Inside story from a more a while and the whole team here if i can. August on out is iraq at the u. S. Republican and Democratic National Convention Stella gets officially nominate their partys president ial candidates for the 2020 elections in india witnessed on as a young conservationist tackling the deadly fumin elephant conflict with an unlikely strategy coexistence 10 years off to the chilean mining disaster we revisit the victims of a story that captivated the world one on one east and has the violent or beaner of the mixed martial arts in russia and the former u. S. S. R. And the u. N. 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