This involved way cracking down on dissent a prominent journalist whose expose corruption is arrested the government says hes inciting violence as a number of abductions of critics in recent months what does that tell us about zimbabwe after mcgarvey this is inside story. Hello there and welcome to the program im laura kyle zimbabwes president. Is accused of trying to destroy opposition and silence dissent using covert 19 as an excuse the accusations are not new political arrests and crackdowns on demonstrations have become common but the recent arrest of investigative journalists hope has dragged them ballboy back into the international spotlight is accused of inciting public violence he denies that and says journalism is being criminalized hes published articles alleging corruption and multimillion dollar deals to combat coronavirus that have been awarded to powerful individuals close to the government our correspondent in harare following the case. State prosecutors opposed to bail they say that if hope watching one of the felines journalists was allowed to go home he could use the opportunity to go back on a social media pages and encourage people to demonstrate in next weeks planned antigovernment demonstrations they also fear that he could also use your opportunity to leave the country when hope wasnt going to was leaving the Magistrates Court in the capital harare he said he feels hes been persecuted for only doing his job. For a down turn and its a question comical the servant involved with the french reporting one of the organizers of the 31st deadline protested c n n so this is really journalism is being criminalized for 105. And look at the facts of very radical islamist corruption should continue people should not stop who should kill him with the. Critics of the government say officials are using this as an opportunity as an excuse to suppress Media Freedom and to stop people from gathering their say in these uncovered 900000 denecke as an excuse and human rights organizations are concerned we encourage the government to engage with Civil Society and other stakeholders to find Sustainable Solutions to grievances while ensuring the rights and freedoms are protected in accordance with zimbabwes you months of negotiations will include the responsibility in state guarantee economic social and cultural rights the government of zimbabwe denies the allegations it says its only doing this to protect people its discouraging people from gathering next week if the planned protest go ahead and they say they feel the people organizing this protest are doing it to undermine the authority of the state. Well present and is a man in gagra has faced a number of challenges since taking power in 2017 the economy has been high on his agenda with promises of bring prosperity to zimbabwe but unemployment and inflation are on the rise with fuel and food prices spiraling out of control and bob way is one of the most food insecure nations in the world freedoms are also in decline god has been criticized for his handling of dissent especially cracking down on peaceful protests and arresting critics and a growing number of political arrests and allegations of corruption have undermined the president s promises of change thank you. Lets bring in our guests now and in johannesburg piers pigou Senior Consultant for Southern Africa with the International Crisis group and in harare 2 former m. D. C. National spokesperson and deputy minister of justice and Legal Affairs thank you both for joining us weve also invited bright matonga a member of zanu p. F. Party and hoping that he will join our discussion shortly will just get underway for the moment now though. Why has hope you know been detained and denies bail. From what i gather from this the proceedings are coming out of them i dont know much to scotland where. Together with another political activism but it isnt. Noted that it were meant they are caught and from the child this has an inciting public violence and thats what an argument that will be for the const i understand that both of them have since been there deny all that much touch c. N. N. Are rare and lost or are informed lab in farms. Taken the matter. Where they are going to. Bellicose an odd gentlemens opportune im not joking that implemented so that aquittal. Yet and make a decision on the up it doesnt. End in chat ok heres where these men inciting public violence. Well i mean on the basis of the evidence that was put in front of the Magistrates Court yesterday no there were not we saw with jacob in the removal ms the. Lawyer come out and show us 3 tweets that had been used by the investigating officer to convince the magistrate that he was inciting violence and it is through difficult to understand how one can translate those tweets into into that same with hopeful china i follow his social media feed very closely and really ive not seen anything in there which relates to an incitement to violence so what we saw was predicted many of us were putting out in social media 2 days before or after their arrest saying theyd be refused bail there would be theres a theres a playbook that weve seen time and time again in zimbabwe where. The courts are used to contain and frustrate critical voices and thats exactly whats going on right now so this is because these 2 men exposed high levels of corruption thats why they were arrested and detained while theres a combination of factors in play or what you know has been extremely active in exposing corruption but with that exposure has come a very hard hitting narrative about the failures of the nigger administration which some i believe go beyond the bounds of ordinary journalism hes an activist journalist in many ways jacob meanwhile the head of the transform party which was actively engaged in in preparing for protests next week had received the support of the amplification for this protest from through the social media of hope welch and honestly i think theres a combination of factors in play here bear in mind all of this was happening prior to the announcement of the current curfew and current clampdown relating from the government to its covert restrictions oh but it seems that the government is determined to stifle these protests the june next friday july 31st do you see that them going d ahead. From what i know not. Obviously thats not run down you up there im going with 19 Global Pandemic that also has them so that this part of the out so from about the 1st of april this year that we have an iraq dump nationalized not down but the 1st 3 weeks it was a total. Of 3 rigs and relaxed now we have a passion lockdown but its not recently the past week or so cases of that but how angry about how angry are people will they ignore the regulations when they come out onto the streets next friday anyway from what i know i am from what i see. Among the many as i believe that much as. You dont read. Such Economic Conditions there scattergoods in cost of living and obviously issues to do with most people much any enough to be able to what you would on the temple for that famine is but as regards the people going on to list seeds in their whose numbers my own understanding man understanding and the assessment is that it is not going to be that easy that i didnt why but its. Obvious that i mean ive been moving around since numbering in balance and im not that simple and it is self discipline them sounds that the places where you say. I like to put my kids like what to buy now class also how much is the movement for Democratic Change supporting the idea of protests look i dont know because look im not im at member of the movement for democratic tent but from what im seeing right now social media theres the not at all what im going to say is like i said sons of response because theyve come over social media saying that they do agree with them that it will miss their cause. Call 4 point one session but shut up that they believe anything but one can say is. Not. Strong endorsement just doesnt social media in dos meant to say. We taught what you are not saying or saying together. That when i designate the buy in from the main office your buddies couple. I dont seem to see it and design saying that from my own perspective i dont see a situation where the 1st of july going to be telling the people ok. You know what i mean i dont see that happening ok im just going to jump in because im pleased to say that we can bring bright matonga now into the discussion thanks very much for being with us bright zanu p. F. Member former deputy information minister under late president Robert Mugabe we just began this discussion talking about hopeful to know why hes been detained and why hes been denied bail and whether the incitement of public violence charge is a real one or not because evidence in court by the police lead investigating officer admitted that there was nothing in chinas tweets that suggested such things so why was the ruling against him. Very much admire who it is who are doing your loads. What is what hes afraid of martyrs of generalists yourself. And not because of the stance of grossman but. No but americas. Soul i love you know this is a public. Option and no one was arrested but. Prison is whats not special about what was done. To one of these are going to host doesnt. It mean just so i dont know really use twitter. Or. Been found to be inciting violence. In this just made it more democratically elected government so i think thats what. Crossed the line is you know this tweet must be dispensable something that was meant so that people dont remember is a very frightening you know come to that because of the border as because of the got a big situation yes weve been talking about thats a lake but i want to just pick up on a point a couple of points that you made that piers you know no fence will cross the line your response to that but also this idea that there are a lot of journalists in zimbabwe who are free and open to report on corruption and they neednt fear arrest whats your response to that well let me deal with the 1st question i think. Unfortunately betrays a lack of understanding of what freedom of speech is. And betrays a lack of understanding of whats really or should i say and open and honest reflection of whats really going on here. This is about shutting down the voices. I hope world to nona has a very large following. On social media this has been closed down by the state what were likely to see now is eventually a by a lack of cation being given and he will have restrictions on his social media interaction there will be no prosecution there rarely is in these matters none of these kinds of allegations have really been proven in the past with respect to other journalists yes there is also harassment another one was arrested this morning i saw. On on social media but there is a selective engagement around these issues and whilst there is some space. In the media and there is no doubt about that the one can see a pattern. Of behavior from the state and some of its agents in terms of who they are targeting in these matters so you know i mean i think we need to have some honesty about this and we can see the way the courts are manipulated at this level particular at the magistrates level and this has been going on for a very very long time ok but would you agree with that would you say that theres a pattern of behavior playing out here because weve of course had the recent abductions of female opposition activists an m. P. s its an Anti Government protest they claim that they were tortured and sexually assaulted when they were abducted do we know who is responsible for that little mistake from my point of view as a practicing lawyer ive been practicing law in this country since 196987 so i dont not quite a tool and give a definite. Because jewel these matters. Before the courts. And. Its. Also. What you are and. Its also asked them to say. Is that i dont think with respect that have been actually done and this is because we have seen cases being taken to parts did you get the sensitive cases very high profile or did you get the sense. And the costs of the to go not to think. To do with an objectively where people are in terms of the principles of that malls that the airport was. Supposed to be going to so. Well and eventually it. Doesnt have a good. Through the security so wheres the poppy. So right now i think just to end it to condemn this other it might take a subject you can call the cops and i do not even want to give up masters dont get bell do get this kind of conditions because i think as a lawyer thats out of bounds that ill be speaking out of. Professional right something right bright we are we have seen a surge in repression in recent months a number of different people from all areas being a rested indeed zanu p. F. Spokesman Nick Mangwana said no profession is above the law journalists lawyers doctors politician bankas. Thinks that the Justice System is fair is it i think this over here should really be something about if we look for example the International Stage we saw today. Truly is. That when they wanted to extradite him to the United States who are looking to see this just now with the split close better ok lets just stick to some. Extent lets just stick to zimbabwe that were also about zimbabwe dont have a huge amount of time lets just stick to the our big Justice System yes that was. Just passed that is one of the people thats one of this general has started as about were going to vision is what about we one of the but what does it matter senator she said you know they were. Paid just amazing about it by the door so i was on a mission there traveling so what i mean is this in the south africa that a president bypassed ok and i described him as a hero who you saw started you said done to mcgarvey a lot of people are saying this kind of language of 3rd party into ferentz is the kind of language of that era and its crept back in into the Emerson Manning gag where president saying it can be. Not stumps ones that you need to stop those exist but theyre not happy with the election. We saw people getting killed after a lecture that a bit this way and now what journalists are writing stories is to ask what is going to destroy it for national unfortunately maybe it is one of the 4 i think. Is the federal. How might make a celt by whom oh but must this always have that then because people are discovered it isnt you know isnt a question of government is not the mistakes its got this time and theyre on to. Change your government so that you know it was about them were members of the it was an in and it is up at the stoplights about ok i guess whats your response to that that this is all drummed up by people who want to destabilize the country. Well i mean this is again this is a narrative that weve seen for many years and bright matonga who was once a sort of the same the propaganda minister in the mcgarvie Administration Im not surprised to see this kind of allegation that he thinks that people like me are paid to undermine the government of zimbabwe its sad that they can what is actually. Kind of is let me finish the matunga please let me finish mr matonga thank you very much. So yeah this is precisely how how people like mr matonga give you a good example of the kind of rationality or lack of it that were dealing with in zimbabwe because theyre not interested in addressing the issues theyre only interested in undermining individuals shooting the measure and diverting attention from the real issues here which is about more governance a lack of accountability and a great deal of corruption and thieving that has been going on by many of ministrations including the one that mr matonga worked for. Bright matonga thats true isnt it when we look at the situation of zimbabwe they dont need outside people to destabilize it its facing the worst economic crisis in over a decade and its one of the 4 most food insecure countries in the world how did it get here undermined when he came to power with such promises. Nobody has a lot of that it is you know theres a lot theres an appetite to be stubborn and this comes to pass is a british citizen and you wonder what hes going to this is but where is this been you know is going on because of course im out with what i dont understand is interest who are trolls here to speak positively about zimbabwe ok we didnt we didnt take the question rather than our choice of a panel of guests if you could just answer the question as to how and so as a result we got here. Has been under siege zimbabwes and even legal economy sanctions yes we dont condone. Violence or action it was it minister has been arrested weve said that it does mean that acid so these are not happening gems of addressing the issues of what up to. 5 to one up to these weapons inspectors that we should have this when we say is about was horrible business we need to build the laws certainly we need to make sure that we business as. Investment not secured but in general it is business they get their money so caught up freddie is quite impossible that person is and that is happening. Every day so what i dont want to say that this government is what we do is doing nothing i think you just did it ok i bet not sure what this is but you know better and get his opinion on it the problems of zimbabwe and they caused by the government are they caused by outside interference the way i look at it its really. A long time since a kind of issue to take cocktail of affect us. And thats and i didnt write to them saying look we should not forget that for the past 2 decades the hall. And some of our sanctions on top of sanctions are not and this economy actually is but its not the that our 20012002 the coming in august. Have to hide and all that you can actually test this through the onset of the letter pop rock up on the that the 10 up. Of the century on the. Economy and nobody did it but the economy is going to. Get 2000. And and the plate and all of that option but i did not operate at this the government isnt as. Bad today. In the sense that theres been a market at difference because that. I did not mean by a single cabinet minister was for all optional ok that is i just dont have a bit of time so im going to move the discussion forward pace how difficult is it to manage to root out corruption given that it does appear to be entrenched in the system. Well i think its extremely difficult for him to do this because in many ways many of his people and his patronage base are are are compromised by these kinds of issues so whilst mcgarvie had a particular way of managing these issues not a god has certainly tried to push but the push has been somewhat selective and we can see that there are large areas that havent been subject to inquiry are not subject to accountability and transparency i would agree with over guta there has been a qualitative shift from the mugabe era but i think if one looks at exactly what has done there is a lot left that the requires attention so i mean i think one of the huge problems that were seeing and its indicative in this conversation is that there isnt really an honest and open platform to engaging in these issues whether its around manipulation of subject matter like sanctions as weve heard on this conversation particular missed in the tango but also i think misrepresentations from mr goodnow on these issues as well but you see this is the problem we dont have an honest conversation and we seeing this time and time again and sound bite pontification really is not helping any of us ok bright just in the last minute that we have left s. Saw that you turned against mugabe a number of years ago for quite wet presenting a system that is seen to be oppressing people how is the situation any different now. Is we still have its not going to support were going to superman is a real job are also a little one so lets not get enough of these. People who are dying right now every day what it was. Really what the last story is you can see this corruption because we can do you want to be looking for its. All just imagine of course cause if were ever going to where you. Know just imagine what wasnt dont know what it is but this is not medication this is not this is not me you know i just sit back and just see you wanting to jump in at 30 seconds left. Yeah i mean i mean the reason that there is a state of governance like this is because of the maladministration of of p. F. Governments and the fact that there is never any acknowledgment of their misdeeds in this regard the fact that there is millions and millions of dollars that have been effectively stolen from zimbabwe saw this last week with revelations around the farm mechanize. We have run out of time i wish we had much longer to continue this discussion theres plenty more to be said we will return and debate this issue again on inside story but for now many thanks to all our guests bright matonga and. And thank you to very much for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website dot com for further discussion to go to our Facebook Page facebook dot com for slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story from me laura and the whole team here by and. The latest news into the government says its working with local authorities and Community Volunteers to meet the need to bring the refugee details covering. Many gruesome good job losses for michael consequently the remittances from around the world it isnt the 1st time that the work was forced off the air in 1972 it was also shut down. Rewind continue to care bring your people back to life im sorry with updates on the best of aljazeera as documentary history of it continues both from back to know these districts revisiting our free free press. I am the money didnt talk we go from the topic of whats happening in the rest of sites that have been some changes over the years you know rewind on aljazeera a Global Pandemic mass protests demanding change economic recession and geopolitical tensions not to mention the small matter of a looming election join me Steve Clemons in conversation with leading voices on the bottom line your weekly take on u. S. Politics and society on aljazeera. Out of there i must also attend to help with an update for you here on aljazeera 1000000 people have now been infected with corona virus just in the last 4 days bringing the global total to more than 16000000 the United States brazil and india are leading that sajan new cases and the u. K. Has now begun imposing a 2 week quarantine for travelers returning from spain it follows a surge in coronavirus cases there and the reintroduction of lockdowns in some areas the change began at midnight on sunday leaving many tourists scrambling to try to get home our correspondent has moved from Londons Gatwick apples
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