Disrupt peoples lives this decision and big impact on the saudi economy. 2020. This involved way cracking down on dissent a prominent journalist whose expose corruption is arrested the government says hes inciting violence that follows a number of abductions of critics in recent months what does that tell us about zimbabwe after mcgarvey this is inside story. Thank. You hello there and welcome to the program im laura kyle zimbabwes president. Is accused of trying to destroy opposition and silence dissent using covert 19 as an excuse the accusations are not new political arrests and crackdowns on demonstrations have become common but the recent arrests of investigative journalists hopeful to know has dragged them bob way back into the international spotlight you know is accused of inciting public violence he denies that and says journalism is being criminalized hes published articles alleging corruption and multimillion dollar deals to combat coronavirus that have been awarded to powerful individuals close to the government our correspondent in harare following the case. State prosecutors opposed to bail they say that if poor fortune one of the feelers journalist was allowed to go home he could use the opportunity to go back on a social media pages and encourage people to demonstrate in next weeks planned Anti Government demonstrations they also fear that he could also use your opportunity to leave the country when hope wasnt going to was leaving the Magistrates Court in the capital harare he said he feels hes been persecuted for only doing his job. For a down turn and its a question comical of the servant involved with the french reporting one of the organizers of the 31st cologne protested sued them so this is really journalism has been criminalized for 105. In front of very radical activist corruption should continue people should not stop who should kill him with the. Critics of the government say officials are using this as an opportunity as an excuse to suppress Media Freedom and to stop people from gathering their say in these uncovered 900000 denecke as an excuse and human rights organizations are concerned we encourage the government to engage with Civil Society and other stakeholders to find Sustainable Solutions to grievances while ensuring the rights and freedoms are protected in accordance with zimbabwes you months of negotiations will include the responsibility of state guarantee economic social and cultural rights the government of zimbabwe denies the allegations it says its only doing this to protect people its discouraging people from gathering next week if the planned protest go ahead and they say they feel the people organizing this protest are doing it to undermine the authority of the state. Well present and is a man in gagra has faced a number of challenges since taking power in 2017 the economy has been high on his agenda with promises of bring prosperity to zimbabwe but unemployment and inflation are on the rise with fuel and food prices spiraling out of control and bob way is one of the most food insecure nations in the world freedoms are also in decline god has been criticized for his handling of dissent especially cracking down on peaceful protests and arresting critics and a growing number of political arrests and allegations of corruption have undermined the president s promises of change thank you. Lets bring in our guests now and in johannesburg piers pigou Senior Consultant for Southern Africa with the International Crisis group and in harare a former m. D. C. National spokesperson and deputy minister of justice and Legal Affairs thank you both for joining us weve also invited bright matonga a member of zanu p. F. Party and hoping that he will join our discussion shortly will just get underway for the moment now though. Why has hope you know been detained and denies bail. And from what i gather from this the proceedings are coming out of them i dont know much to scotland where him together with another political activism but it is a. United moment joking that it was meant they upped it in cots and from the childless as an inciting public violence and thats what an argument that will be for the const and a stand up both of them have since been there deny bail much to scottish c. N. N. Are rare and lost or are informed lab in farms. Tech and the matter. Where they are going to. Bellicose an odd gentlemens opportune im not joking that implemented so that aquittal. Yet and make a decision on the up it doesnt. End in chat ok heres where these men inciting public violence. Well i mean on the basis of the evidence that was put in front of the Magistrates Court yesterday no there were not we saw with jacob in the removal hmas. Lawyer come out and show us 3 tweets that had been used by the investigating officer to convince the magistrate that he was inciting violence and it is through difficult to understand how one can translate those tweets into into that same with hopeful chin and i follow his social media feed very closely and really ive not seen anything in there which relates to an incitement to violence so what we saw was predicted many of us were putting out in social media 2 days before after their arrest saying theyd be refused bail there would be theres a theres a playbook that weve seen time and time again in zimbabwe where. The courts are used to contain and frustrate critical voices and thats exactly whats going on right now so this is because these 2 men exposed high levels of corruption thats why they were arrested and detained well theres a combination of factors in play a while china has been extremely active in exposing corruption but with that exposure has come a very hard hitting narrative about the failures of the nigger administration which some i believe go beyond the bounds of ordinary journalism hes an activist journalist in many ways jacob meanwhile the head of the transform party which was actively engaged in in preparing for protests next week had received the support of the amplification for this protest from through the social media of Hopewell Chin on a certain theres a combination of factors in play here bear in mind all of this was happening prior to the announcement of the current curfew and current clampdown relating from the government to its covert restrictions oh but it seems that the government is determined to stifle these protests the june next friday july 31st do you see that them going d ahead. From what i know not 2. Obviously and thats not a run down. On going on covered 90 in Global Pandemic that also has them spread this part of the out so from about the 1st of april this year that we have in iraq done nationally knocked down but the 1st 3 weeks it was a total. Of 3 rigs and relaxed now we have a passion lockdown but did you not listen to the past week or so cases of that but how angry i but how angry are people will they ignore the regulations when they come out onto the streets next friday anyway from what i know i am from what i see was i knew the n. R. A. More than any as i believe that much of. It you dont read at such Economic Conditions there scattergoods in cost of living and obviously the issues do with most people are much any enough to be able to put enough wood on the table for that time it is but as regards the people going under the seats in those numbers my aunt assemblyman understanding and the assessment is that it is not going to be that easy that i didnt why but its. Obvious that i mean ive been moving around since numbering in balance and i know its that simple and it is self discipline them sounds that the places where you say. I like to put my kids like what to buy now class also how much is the movement for Democratic Change supporting the idea of protests look i am not going to look im going to get members of the movement for democratic tent but from what im seeing right now social media theres the not at all what im going to say is like i said sort of response because theyve come out of social media saying that they do agree with them but it will miss their cause. Call 4. 00 session but shut up that they believe anything but one can say is the. Strong endorsement doesnt social media in dos meant to say. We taught what you are not saying or saying together. That when i did as a guy. From the main office your buddies got back to you. I dont seem to see it and design saying that from my own perspective i dont see a situation where the 1st of. Going to be thousands of people ok. You know what i mean i dont see that happening ok im just going to jump in because im pleased to say that we can bring bright matonga now into the discussion thanks very much for being with us bright new p. F. Member former deputy information minister under late president Robert Mugabe we just began this discussion talking about hopefully you know why hes been detained and why hes been denied bail and whether the incitement of public violence charge is a real one or not because evidence in court by the police his lead investigating officer admitted that there was nothing in chinas tweets that suggested such things so why was the ruling against him. Thank you very much admired who it is who are doing your loads. Whats more hes afraid of martyrs in general its yourself. And most of these times of aggression but he said right. You know about americas. Soul i lot of you know this is a public. Option and no one was arrested but. 3 prison is whats not special about what was done. One of these are going to host. It me just so i know really used this or. Found to be inciting violence. In this just made it more democratically elected government so i think thats what. Crossed the line is you know this we must be dispensable doing something that was meant so that people dont remember is a very frightening you know come to that because of the border as because of the got a big situation yes weve been talking about thats a lake but i want to just pick up on a point a couple of points that you made that piers you know no fence will cross the line in response to that but also this idea that there are a lot of journalists in zimbabwe who are free and open to report on corruption and they neednt fear arrest whats your response to that well let me deal with the 1st question i think. Unfortunately betrays a lack of understanding of what freedom of speech is. And betrays a lack of understanding of whats really or should i say and open and honest reflection of whats really going on here. This is about shutting down the voices. I hope world to nona has a very large following. On social media this has been closed down by the state what were likely to see now is eventually a by a lack of cation being given and he will have restrictions on his social media interaction there will be no prosecution there rarely is in these matters none of these kinds of allegations have really been proven in the past with respect to other journalists yes there is also harassment another one was arrested this morning i saw. On on social media but there is a selective engagement around these issues and was there is some space. In the media and there is no doubt about that the one can see a pattern. Of behavior from the state and some of its agents in terms of who they are targeting in these matters so you know i mean i think we need to have some honesty about this and we can see the way the courts are manipulated at this level particular at the magistrates level and this has been going on for a very very long time ok but would you agree with that would you say that theres a pattern of behavior playing out here because weve of course had the recent abductions of female opposition activists an m. P. s its an Anti Government protest they claim that they were tortured and sexually assaulted when they were abducted do we know who is responsible for that look this week from my point of view as a practicing lawyer ive been practicing law in this country since 1006987 so i dont not quite a tool and give me a definite. Because jewel these matters. Before the courts. And. Its. Also. What you are and. Its also asked them to say. Is that i dont think with respect that would be an accurate analysis because we have seen cases being taken to parts did you get the sensitive cases very high profile or did you get the sense. And the courts of the to go not to think. To do with an objectively when in terms of this puzzle that was that the what was. Supposed to be granted so. Well and eventually it. Doesnt have a good case. Through the security. So right now i think its too added to condense this as it might take a subject at the cots and i do not even want to give up monsters dont get belle to get this kind of conditions because i think theres an. Out of bounds that will be speaking out of. Professional right up right right way out we have seen a surge in repression in recent months a number of different people from all areas being a rested indeed zanu p. F. Spokesman Nick Mangwana said no profession is above the law journalists lawyers doctors politician bankas. Thinks that the Justice System is fair is it i think this over here should really be something about if we look for example the International Stage we saw today. Truly is. That when they wanted to extradite him to the United States who are looking to see this just now with the split close better ok lets just stick to the barclays state expense lets just stick to zimbabwe that were also about zimbabwe dont have a huge amount of time lets just stick to the our big Justice System yes that was. Passed that is one of the people that sponsor this general has said as about were going to vision is what about we one of the what he does and what senator she said not the way theyre paid just amazing but by the door so i was on a mission there training so. That there is this in the south africa that a president bypassed ok but i decided to make those who you said started you said done to mcgarvey a lot of people are saying this kind of language of 3rd party into ferentz is the kind of language of that era and its crept back in into the Emerson Manning jaguar president saying. Its kind of being. Not stump speeches that we need to stop those things but theyre not happy with the election. We saw people getting killed after a lecture that a bit this way and now what generalists are writing stories is to ask what is going to stick it on national unfortunately maybe it is one of the 4 i think. Is the federal. How come i think it tells by whom oh but must is or isnt that then because people are discovered it isnt you know isnt a christian government is nothing is jokes its got us time and theyre on to. Change your government so thats no it was about the members of the it was an in and it is up at the stoplights about ok this was your response to that but this is all drummed up by people who want to destabilize the country. Well i mean this is again this is a narrative that weve seen for many years and bright matonga who was once a sort of demi semi propaganda minister in the mcgarvie Administration Im not surprised to see this kind of allegation that he thinks that people like me are paid to undermine the government of zimbabwe its sad that they can what is actually. Kind of these let me finish the matunga please let me finish mr matonga thank you very much. So this is precisely how how people like mr matonga give you a good example of the kind of rationality or lack of it that were dealing with in zimbabwe because theyre not interested in addressing the issues theyre only interested in undermining individuals shooting the measure and diverting attention from the real issues here which is about more governance a lack of accountability and a great deal of corruption and thieving that has been going on by many of ministrations including the one that mr matonga worked for. Bright matonga thats true isnt it when we look at the situation of zimbabwe they dont need outside people to destabilize it its facing the worst economic crisis in over a decade and its one of the 4 most food insecure countries in the world how did it get here undermined when he came to power with such promises. Nobody has a lot of that it is you know theres a lot of theres an appetite to stop this kind of piracy is a british citizen and you wonder what hes going to this is but where is this been you know is going on because of course im out with what i dont understand is interest who are chosen to speak whats wanted to know about zimbabwe ok weve been wanting to take the question rather than our choice of a panel of guests if you could just answer the question as to how it will go as a result weve got here. Its been under siege zimbabwes even link the economic sanctions yes we dont condone. Violence or action it was it ministers being arrested weve said that it does mean that acid some of these are not happening gems of addressing the issues of what up to. 5 to one up to these weapons inspectors that we should have this when we say is about was going for business we need to build the laws certainly we need to make sure that business as. Investment now secured regenerative business they get their money so caught up freddie what option is to present that process and that is happening. Every day so what i dont want to say that this government is what we do is doing nothing i think you just did it ok i bet not sure what this is but you know better and get his opinion on it the problems of zimbabwe and they caused by the government are they caused by outside interference so i look at it its really. A long time since a kind of you should take cocktail of effect. And thats and i didnt buy to them saying look we should not forget that for the past 2 decades the hall somebody has been. On top of sanctions all that and this economy actually has been the that our 20012002 the coming you know. Have to hide and all that you can actually access this through the arms of the lender pop rock up on the at the temp. The central tenet of the. Economy is nobody did it but the economy is going to. Get 2000. And and the plate and all of that option but i did not operate at this the government doesnt lead. To the. Market at difference because that. I did not mean by a single commitment is the once for all optional ok that is just what you already have a little bit of time so im going to move the discussion forward pace how difficult is it for manning to root out corruption given that it does appear to be entrenched in the system. Well i think its extremely difficult for him to do this because in many ways many of his people and his patronage base are are are compromised by these kinds of issues so whilst mcgarvie had a particular way of managing these issues not a god has certainly tried to push but the push has been somewhat selective and we can see that there are large areas that havent been subject to inquiry are not subject to accountability and transparency i would agree with over guta there has been a qualitative shift from the mugabe era but i think if one looks at exactly what has done there is a lot left that the requires attention so i mean i think one of the huge problems that were seeing and its indicative in this conversation is that there isnt really an honest and open platform to engaging in these issues whether its around manipulation of subject matter like sanctions as weve heard on this conversation particular missed in the tango but also i think misrepresentations from mr gooch on these issues as well but you see this is the problem we dont have an honest conversation and we seeing this time and time again and soundbite pontification really is not helping any of us ok bright just in the last minute that we have left s. Saw that you turned against mugabe a number of years ago for quite wet presenting a system that is seen to be oppressing people how is the situation any different now. Is we still have its not going to support going to superman is a real job are also a little one so lets not get enough of these. People who are dying right now every day what it was. Really what the last story is that you can see this corruption because we cant do you want to be looking for its. All just imagine the host will cause if were ever going to where you. Just imagine what was going down what is what but this is not medication this is not this is not me you know i guess if i can just see you wanting to jump in that 30 seconds left. Yeah i mean i mean the reason that there is a state of governance like this is because of the maladministration of of resigning p. F. Governments and the fact that there is never any knowledge meant of their misdeeds in this regard the fact that there is millions and millions of dollars that have been effectively stolen from zimbabwe i saw this last week with revelations around the Farm Mechanization my apologies we have run out of time i wish we had much longer to continue this discussion theres plenty more to be said we will return and debate this issue again on inside story but for now many thanks to all our guests bright matonga and. And thank you to very much for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website as aljazeera dot com for further discussion to go to our Facebook Page facebook dot com for slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here at life and. 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Claim well and many feel the economy is be prioritised about for human life until fall of people get a little busy and theyre out here because i can put like faces we bring you the latest developments from across the globe Coronavirus Fund them a special coverage on. Aljazeera. Every. Global tourney puts Coronavirus Infections beyond 16000000 led by the u. S. Which is recorded more than 70000 cases in the past day. And again im peter w. Watching aljazeera live from doha also coming up tension in the u. S. City of portland where protests continue against Police Brutality in the presence of federal agents sent in by donald trump. Britain suddenly reimpose is a quarantine on anyone coming in from spain catching travel
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