This involved way cracking down on dissent a prominent journalist whose expose corruption is arrested the government says hes inciting violence as a number of abductions of critics in recent months what does that tell us about zimbabwe after mcgarvey this is inside story. Hello there and welcome to the program im laura kyle zimbabwes president. Is accused of trying to destroy opposition and silence dissent using covert 19 as an excuse the accusations are not new political arrests and crackdowns on demonstrations have become common but the recent arrest of investigative journalists hopeful has dragged them bob way back into the international spotlight is accused of inciting public violence he denies that and says journalism is being criminalized hes published articles alleging corruption and multimillion dollar deals to combat coronavirus that have been awarded to powerful individuals close to the government our correspondent in harare following the case. State prosecutors opposed to bail they say that if poor fortune one of the feelers journalist was allowed to go home he could use the opportunity to go back on a social media pages and encourage people to demonstrate in next weeks planned Anti Government demonstrations they also fear that he could also use your opportunity to leave the country when hope watching going was leaving the Magistrates Court in the capital harare he said he feels hes being persecuted for only doing his job. Right now to whom its a question comical the servant involved with the 1st job reporting one of the organizers of the 31st deadline approaches that suit them so this is really journalism has been criminalized for 105. And part of very radical activist corruption should continue people should not stop who should kill him with the. Critics of the government say officials are using this as an opportunity as an excuse to suppress Media Freedom and to stop people from gathering there saying these uncovered 900000 denecke as an excuse and human rights organizations are concerned we encourage the government to engage with Civil Society and other stakeholders to find Sustainable Solutions to grievances while ensuring the peoples rights and freedoms are protected in accordance with zimbabwes you months of negotiations will include the responsibility in story county economic social and cultural rights the government of zimbabwe denies the allegations it says its only doing this to protect people its discouraging people from gathering next week if the planned protest go ahead and they say they feel the people organizing this protest are doing it to undermine the authority of the state. Well president m. Is a man in gagra has faced a number of challenges since taking power in 2017 the economy has been high on his agenda with promises of bring prosperity to zimbabwe but unemployment and inflation are on the rise with fuel and food prices spiraling out of control and bob way is one of the most food insecure nations in the world freedoms are also in decline god has been criticized for his handling of dissent especially cracking down on peaceful protests and arresting critics and a growing number of political arrests and allegations of corruption have undermined the president s promises of change thank you. Lets bring in our guests now and in johannesburg piers pigou Senior Consultant for Southern Africa with the International Crisis group and in harare 2 former m. D. C. National spokesperson and deputy minister of justice and Legal Affairs thank you both for joining us weve also invited bright matonga a member of zanu p. F. Party and hoping that he will join our discussion shortly will just get underway for the moment now though. Why has hope you know been detained and denies bail. From what i gather from this is the proceedings are coming out of them i dont know much to scotland where him together with another political activism but it isnt. Noted that it was meant they upped it in cots and from the childless as an inciting public violence and thats what an argument that will be for the const and a stand that both of them have since been deny all that much to scottish c. N. N. Are rare and lost or are informed lab in farms. Tech and the matter. Where they are going to. Bellicose an odd gentlemens opportune im not joking that implemented so that aquittal. Yet and make a decision on the up it doesnt. End in chat ok heres where these men inciting public violence. Well i mean on the basis of the evidence that was put in front of the Magistrates Court yesterday no there were not we saw with jacob and the removal ms the. Lawyer come out and show us 3 tweets that had been used by the investigating officer to convince the magistrate that he was inciting violence and it is through difficult to understand how one can translate those tweets into into that same with Hopewell Chin and i follow his social media feed very closely and really ive not seen anything in there which relates to an incitement of violence so what we saw was predicted many of us were putting out in social media 2 days before or after their arrest saying theyd be refused bail there would be theres a theres a playbook that weve seen time and time again in zimbabwe where. The courts are used to contain and frustrate critical voices and thats exactly whats going on right now so this is because these 2 men exposed high levels of corruption thats why they were arrested and detained well theres a combination of factors and player while china has been extremely active in exposing corruption but with that exposure has come a very hard hitting narrative about the failures of the nigger administration which some i believe go beyond the bounds of ordinary journalism hes an activist journalist and many ways jacob meanwhile the head of the transform party which was actively engaged in in preparing for protests next week had received the support of the amplification for this protest from through the social media of hope welch and honestly i think theres a combination of factors in play here bear in mind all of this was happening prior to the announcement of the current curfew and current clampdown relating from the government to to its covert restrictions but it seems that the government is determined to stifle these protests the june next friday july 31st do you see that them going d ahead. From what i know not. Obviously thats not a run down up there im going with 19 Global Pandemic that also has them spread this out of the out so from about the 1st of april this year that we have an iraq dump nationalized knocked down but the 1st 3 weeks it was a total. Of 3 rigs and relaxed now we have a passion lockdown but its not the senate in the past week or so cases of that but how angry i but how angry are people will they ignore the regulations when they come out onto the streets next friday anyway from what i know i am from what i see because i knew the n. R. A. More than any as i believe that much is. That if you dont read. Such Economic Conditions theyre scattergoods in cost of living and obviously the issues do with most people are much any enough to be able to put enough wood on the table for that time it is but as regards the people going on to list seeds in those numbers my aunt had a silly man understanding and the assessment is that he is not going to be that easy that i didnt why but its. Obvious that i mean ive been moving around since now being in balance and i know its that simple and it is self discipline them sounds that the places where you say. I like to put my kids like what to buy now class also how much is the movement for Democratic Change supporting the idea of protests look i am not going to look im going to have members of the movement for democratic tent but from what im seeing right now social media theres the not at all what im going to say is like i said sort of response because they have come out of social media saying that they do agree with them but it will miss their cause. Call point one session but shut up that they believe anything but one can say is the. Strong endorsement just doesnt social media in dos meant to say. We taught what you are not saying or saying together. d that when i designate the buy in from the main office your buddies got back to you. I dont seem to see it and design saying that from my own perspective i dont see a situation where the 1st. Going to be telling the people ok. You know what i mean i dont see that happening ok im just going to jump in because im pleased to say that we can bring bright matonga now into the discussion thanks very much for being with us bright zanu p. F. Member former deputy information minister under late president Robert Mugabe we just began this discussion talking about hopeful to know why hes been detained and why hes been denied bail and whether the incitement of public violence charge is a real one or not because evidence in court by the police is lead investigating officer admitted that there was nothing in chinas tweets that suggested such things so why was the ruling against him. Thank you very much admired who it is who are doing your loads. What is what hes afraid of martyrs and generalists yourself. And most of these times of aggression but he said right. You know about americas. Soul i lot of you know this is a public. Option and no one was arrested but. Prison is whats not special about what was done. To one of these are going to host. It me just so i dont know really use twitter. Or. Been found to be inciting violence. In this just made it more democratically elected government so i think thats what. Crossed the line is you know this too we must be dispensable doing something that was meant so that people dont remember is a very frightening show come to that because of the quote i ask because the league of exclusion yes weve been talking about thats a lake but i want to just pick up on a point a couple of points that you made that piers and i know thats what crossed the line your response to that but also this idea that there are a lot of journalists in zimbabwe who are free and open to report on corruption and they neednt fear arrest was your response to that well let me deal with the 1st question i think. Unfortunately betrays a lack of understanding of what freedom of speech is. And betrays a lack of understanding of whats really or should i say an open and honest reflection of whats really going on here. This is about shutting down the voices. I hope world to nona has a very large following. On social media this has been closed down by the state what were likely to see now is eventually a by a lack of cation being given and he will have restrictions on his social media interaction there will be no prosecution there rarely is in these matters none of these kinds of allegations have really been proven in the past with respect to other journalists there is also harassment another one was arrested this morning i saw. On on social media but there is a selective engagement around these issues and whilst there is some space. In the media and there is no doubt about that the one can see a pattern. Of behavior from the state and some of its agents in terms of who they are targeting in these matters so you know i mean i think we need to have some honesty about this and we can see the way the courts are manipulated at this level particular at the magistrates level and this has been going on for a very very long time ok but would you agree with that would you say that theres a pattern of behavior playing out here because weve of course had the recent abductions of female opposition activists an m. P. s an Anti Government protest they claim that they were tortured and sexually assaulted when they were abducted do we know who is responsible for that let me see from my point of view as a practicing lawyer ive been practicing law in this country since 196987 so i dont not quite a tool and give a definite. What it costs just due to these matters. Before the courts. And. Also. What you are. Getting so fast and to say. Is that i dont think with respect that have been actually done and this is because we have seen cases being taken to parts 6 did you get the sensitive cases very high profile or did you get the sense. And the costs of the to go not to think. To do with an objectively where people are in terms of the principles of that malls that the airport was. Supposed to be going to so. Well and eventually it. Doesnt have a good case. Through the security. So right now i think its too added to condense this so that it might take a subject at the cots and i do not even want to give up masters dont get bell do get belly to this kind of conditions because i think thats an. Out of bounds that will be speaking out of. Professional right something right bright we are we have seen a surge in repression in recent months a number of different people from all areas being a rested indeed zanu p. F. Spokesman Nick Mangwana said no profession as above the law journalists lawyers doctors politician bankas. Thinks that the Justice System is fat is that i think this over here should really be something about if we look for example the International Stage we saw a genocide. Is. That what they wanted to extradite him to the United States who are looking to see this is only just now the split close bit or ok lets just think to some. Extent lets just stick to zimbabwe that we feel so about zimbabwe dont have a huge amount of time lets just stick to the our big justices said yes that was. Just passed that is one of the people that sponsor this general has said as about were going to vision is what about we want the but what does it matter senator she said not the way theyre paid just amazing but by the door so i was on a mission there training so what i mean is this in the south africa that a president bypassed ok but i described him as a hero who you saw started 6 you said done to mcgarvey a lot of people are saying this kind of language of 3rd party into ferentz is the kind of language of that era and its crept back in into the Emerson Manning gag where president saying it can be. Not stumps ones that we need to stop those exist but theyre not happy with the election. We saw people getting killed after a lecture that a bit this way and now what journalists are writing stories is to ask what is going to destroy it for national unfortunately and that maybe it is one of the 4 i think. The federal bureau of how might make a celt by whom oh but must this always have that end because people are discovered is that you know isnt a question of government is not the mistakes its got us its time and theyre on to. Change your government so that you know it was about them were members of the it was an end and it is up at the stoplights about ok this was your response to that that this is all drummed up by people who want to destabilize the country. Well i mean this is again this is a narrative that weve seen for many years and bright matonga who was once a sort of demi seen the propaganda minister in the mcgarvie Administration Im not surprised to see this kind of allegation that he thinks that people like me are paid to undermine the government of zimbabwe its sad that they can what is actually. Kind of these let me finish the matunga please let me finish mr matonga thank you very much. So yeah this is precisely how how people like mr matonga give you a good example of the kind of rationality or lack of it that were dealing with in zimbabwe because theyre not interested in addressing the issues theyre only interested in undermining individuals shooting the measure and diverting attention from the real issues here which is about more governance a lack of accountability and a great deal of corruption and thieving that has been going on by many of ministrations including the one that mr matonga worked for. Bright matonga thats true isnt it when we look at the situation of zimbabwe they dont need outside people to destabilize it its facing the worst economic crisis in over a decade and its one of the 4 most food insecure countries in the world how did it get here undermined when he came to power with such promises. Nobody has a lot of that it is you know theres a lot of theres an appetite to be stubborn and this comes to pass is a british citizen and you wonder what hes going to this is about which is this been you know its been i guess of course im out with what i dont understand is interesting who are trolls here to speak wanted to know about zimbabwe ok weve been wanting to take the question rather than our choice of a panel of guests if you could just answer the question as to how and so as a result weve got fed up with has been under siege zimbabwes and even legal economy sanctions yes we dont condone. Violence or action it was it ministers being arrested weve said that act as being arrested so these are not to happen to be gems of addressing the issues of what is what up to. 5 to one up to these weapons inspectors that weve got this when we say as if i was going for business we need to build the laws certainly we need to make sure that business as. Investment now secured regenerative business they get their money so caught up freddie what option is to present a Better Process and that is happening. Every day so what i dont want to say that this government is what we do is doing nothing i think you just better hope and i bet not sure what this is but you know better and get his opinion on it the problems of zimbabwe and they caused by the government are they caused by outside interference so i look at it its really. A long time. Kind of issue to cocktail effect. And thats and i didnt write to them saying look we should not forget that for the past 2 decades the hall bump has been less. Than one type of sanctions or another and this economy actually has been its the that our 20012002 the coming in occident. Have to hide and all that you can actually test this through the onset of the letter pop rock up on the that the 10 up. The central tenet of the. Economy is nobody did it but that problem isnt going to. Get 2000. And 6 and the plate and all of what option but i did not operate at this the government isnt as. Bad today got bit better in the sense that theres been a market at difference because that. I did not mean by a single cabinet minister wants what optional ok that is just what you already have a little bit of time so im going to move the discussion forward pace how difficult is it for manning to root out corruption given that it does appear to be entrenched in the system. Well i think its extremely difficult for him to do this because in many ways many of his people and his patronage base are are are compromised by these kinds of issues so whilst mugabe had a particular way of managing these issues none of god has certainly tried to push but the push has been somewhat selective and we can see that there are large areas that havent been subject to inquiry are not subject to accountability and transparency i would agree with over guta there has been a qualitative shift from the mugabe era but i think if one looks at exactly what has done there is a lot left that that requires attention so you know i mean i think one of the huge problems that were seeing and its indicative in this conversation is that there isnt really an honest and open platform to engaging in these issues whether its around manipulation of subject matter like sanctions as weve heard on this conversation particular from mr matonga but also i think misrepresentations from mr goodere on these issues as well but you see this is the problem we dont have an honest conversation and we seeing this time and time again and sound bite pontification really is not helping any of us ok bright just in the last minute that we have left s. Saw that you turned against mugabe a number of years ago for quite wet presenting a system that is deemed to be oppressing people how is the situation any different now. Is we still have its not going to support were going to be superman is a real job are also a little one so lets not get enough of these. People who are dying right now every day what it was. Really what the last story is you graham says corruption because we want to be looking for its. All just imagine the whole social cause if were ever going to. Just imagine what wasnt dont know what it is but this is not medication this is not this is not me you know i just sit back and just see you wanting to jump in at 30 seconds left. You know i mean i mean the reason that there is a state of governance like this is because of the maladministration of of you resign to p. F. Governments and the fact that there is never any of knowledge meant of their misdeeds in this regard the fact that there is millions and millions of dollars that have been effectively stolen from zimbardo he saw this last week with revelations around the Farm Mechanization my apologies we have run out of time i wish we had much longer to continue this discussion theres plenty more to be said we will return and debate this issue again on inside story but for now many thanks to all our guests bright matonga and. And thank you to very much for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website theres aljazeera dot com ferds gushing to go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com for slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here is by and. What was described as the worlds longest long downpours the largest exodus since the creation of the independent india and 947. Experts believe india is still at a stage of infection but the long down has already created a humanitarian crisis and driven the Unemployment Rate for 6 to 23 percent and its also highlighted inequality religious tensions and Health Care System that isnt equipped to deal with a pandemic the following weeks will tell of the recent Mass Movement of people will accelerate the spread of the kowtowing to juarez from india cities to its rule hot. An image can change the way we see the womb if we had not seen theirs we would be talking about it it can spark mass action or serve the interests of the powerful he created this moment for a photo opportunity that can obscure the truth this is a legitimate news story but the script and the talking points feel pretty identical it can forge narratives or rewrite through the listening post gives you the full picture on the jersey. Aljazeera. This is aljazeera. Were. Hello im adrian should i get this is that live from doha coming up in the next 60 minutes scott put the brakes quarantine mandatory for travelers from spain as the corona virus infection rates triples catalunya. Packed up and leaving china u. S. Diplomats to park close to consulates in chengdu as relation
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