How should u. S. Police forces be reformed as protests against Police Brutality go on so the calls to cut funding even abolishing Law Enforcement agencies but is that the political will for genuine change this isnt. Alone welcome to the program on the killing of george floyd last month the triggered protests across the u. S. And elsewhere against Police Brutality the 4 minneapolis officers who arrested the 46 year old black american a back in court charged with manslaughter demands for justice and drastic changing to policing being made. Activists say offices routinely discriminate against minorities and use Excessive Force when making the arrests the protest ammans include cutting funding for Law Enforcement agencies stripping police of military games such as armored trucks and grenade launchers and some even want to abolish police altogether. We want to make sure that people were here to up with the demands of the community which is to defund the police ever maybe but i mean abolish policing itself as an institution the occupy the space that we can sell that narrative and they cannot say that the people are satisfied if they do not defunded they might be by a 1000000000. 00 and really the demand is not just about the police its actually about ending poverty its actually about creating safety by funding the kinds of initiatives and social services and infrastructure Public Health infrastructure that actually generates safety for communities and not just rich white money communities but for all communities their Police Offices and other countries that need to happen you know so america has this. Explicit filing that is primary and acted against like people in the us through the government channel that were supposed to be potent for the civility protect ill just say that i think its important right now for people to come out this is a critical moment in history people should be on the streets demanding for real reform and change that is going to help all of us and this is another moment in civil rights history i think that we will see if we feel the change were already stretched thin with where were at losing more Law Enforcement is not the answer because those threats of violence those criminal acts still occur someone still has to show up take a report talk to victims identify suspect make arrests present the case to the district attorney. The jobs not going to go away because School Police decided to be disbanded so i think its irresponsible to do that. The democrats controlled house of representatives passed a Police Reform bill named after george floyd the legislation aims to ban chokeholds combat racial profiling and establish a National Database to track Police Misconduct but the Republican Controlled Senate is unlikely to pass the law. Lets bring in our guests from new york human rights activist america safe and nutley new jersey steve rogers retired police left tenant and member of the Advisory Board donald trump for president 2020 and from washington d. C. Elizabeth anka professor of american studies and Political Science at George Washington university a warm welcome to you all like to begin in new jersey would stable not just you or a retired police left tenant. Defunding the police is a good idea it doesnt need to be done well were already seeing how bad an idea it is over the past 48 hours or more more people were shot in seattle new york city 77 people wounded 55 shootings over this past week los angeles their crime rate has spiked to 270 percent and its just going on and on and on defunding the police is a politically correct way of saying lets get rid of the police now there are certain areas that the police can certainly not become too much involved in where when it comes to Crime Fighting you need Police Officers and ive got to tell you what is troubling is that the people who are suffering the most are minorities begging for police to come in and its the democrats are the source those who are saying you dont need cops well take care of you its interesting youre in new jersey a couple of years ago i was in new jersey i was in trenton and what i saw that. Well actually made me do a double take i saw military Vehicles Police dressed like they were in baghdad or they were in afghanistan i added i did have to do a double take because i thought i was back in those places it shocked me at the level of militarization thats taken place so policing has changed stephen over the last few years because of that kind of thing so can you understand that people are more afraid of the police now than they ever have been. Well i guess im if i could tell you that people welcome Police Officers through Community Policing methodologies in each of their communities with regard to what you just identified i understand that but it was during those times that we were very involved with after shooters you had no idea what school was next what corporation was next so please have to be very very prepared to engage in pretty vicious criminals or high powered weapons you dont see much of that anymore which seems like we have a handle on a lot of these incidents that are potentially dangerous but the fact is is that whats not being told by the Mainstream Media by the Success Stories and there are many of them far more Success Stories now what were seeing on the air with regard to Police Community relations to care of an ellipse theres nothing to worry about says steve rogers the police a wonderful i think its easy to say if you have never people who look like you be brought up against the car have their meat have their mike taken away by having the one put their knee on their neck or i have Police Officers an armed black men as theyre walking away Police Officers do not make a they it is time that we have a larger conversation to reimagine what they look like a black Brown Community and i think to your point you know i was in baltimore and in baton rouge during the uprising a few years ago and the fact that we had pink on american street and to minimizing everyday american when were just trying to protest the violence that we were going to get our community i think go to show you how we have totally moved away from. Trying to make our community faker to pay placing both and to a very militarized community which often times the 5. Incidents of violence but to mirror it has to be said that if youll calling for the defunding of the police thats to ordinary americans to most people around the wealth thats quite a shocking Statement People want the police why call it do you really think it would actually be. I think it would be i mean to be honest im ready for the abolishment a Police Officer and i say that because you know its easy for folks to think that you know about us in the police is somehow a radical thing but over the last few decades we and defunded Mental Health we defunded Public Education week of funded institutions that will actually make our community not only safer but proper and so i think again this is the opportunity for us to have a larger conversation that saying that we want the program to investigate crime and continue to ensure that poker face but we have to reimagine what that looks like an ad now the current institution of police is actually more dangerous to our country than it has ever been elizabeth thank again washington d. C. Is there any historical precedent for this idea of defunding the police is there a modern equivalent of it or is this come out as a result directly of the george floyd killings of. Black lives about a movement well the idea of putting a less money into policing which currently makes up a very large share of most city budgets that is not new and people have been arguing it for decades and decades since the Civil Rights Movement in the United States that more money should be put into social services that would prevent crime social Services Like supporting more Public Education supporting employment supporting health care that would actually prevent a lot of people who end up turning to crime the phrase defunding the police is rather know in the sense that it summarizes that movement the movement its call a poor are placing it less money into a Police Budgets and more money into some of these other forms of social services preserving the police soley for issues of high violence and especially since the police you know their methods what they have available to them are estate violence and all the other ways in which police are asked to intervene in nonviolent issues such as homelessness or poverty or Mental Health. Right boosting the funding for debt and now that we all kind of you know bit that is you know stephen rajas prevention obviously is better than kill technique and medicine could the same be applied then do we defund the police by little bit to put more money into preventative measures for them that people get into trouble in the 1st place well i agree with their prevention end of this however we must put make it clear that for example the Minority Community is not the enemy of the police the police are not the enemies of the mariani Minority Community or any 3 minute but the enemy i see here are politicians on both sides they promised so much to so many for so many years and never delivered so i will not say that any not one dime should be taken away from the police but there are a lot of well there are treasuries if youre well that could be tapped into but keep in mind too that yes that mentioned she would say that the abolishment of the police would be ok but just a couple nights ago a senator and michigan who supports the funding for police was badly beaten by the very people he supported 1st thing he did was call 911 s. From the police so you need police you need them there for a purpose a master protect and serve but the idea of prevention especially into Mental Health i think we all sort that to mirror when you had the words protect and what do you think. I think thats incorrect theres been many courts that have already ruled that Police Officers job is actually not to protect why is to enforce wall into a pole law and so thats a very different concept that we that the gentleman just spoke up and so again i think im i understand that there is a need for investigation for high level crimes for Violent Crime but as of now Police Officers have a why brett why the range of work that they do that oftentimes make them when they are not up to code they dont understand those communities they oftentimes theyre create hostile environment and i would actually say many black folk would say the Police Officers are enemy of their community because of how weve been treated for so long and you can see that by the amount of unarmed black and brown women who have been killed by the police sometimes walking away and i dont know i want to flag you know its easy for folks to think about with the amazing examples of Police Officers when theyve come into communities but also the vast majority of kinds of them interacting with communities of color it has been from a place of violence and trauma and so we can we we can talk about the good examples but i dont think the good examples outweigh the bad examples that weve seen oftentimes displayed by both cleese cameras and by eyewitness accounts on the scene and thats the fun when it comes here in just a 2nd by do what you will for steven stills on both of this assault was steven 1st eventually the idea that the police on protecting and serving their communities comes from the fact that by not reflective of the community you need more black and brown offices you need more divesting within the police force would you agree without. Yes i do agree with that and im a strong advocate of Police Officers coming from their communities that they arent in fact certain but keep in mind that look i can just for you right to chicago those people are begging theyve been begging for a year say hello for who show the police theyre being gunned down their kids are being shot and by the way theyre not being shot to death by the cops theyre being black theyre being shot today shot to death because you know black on black crime i mean so that at the end of the day we need Police Officers but to your point i am totally in agreement that we should have Police Officers fire from the communities that we are called to serve people want their Police Officer i mean they know they need them they want them and the fact of the matter is as you and i are speaking over this past few days Police Officers were shot 2 of them last night this is a dangerous job and its the police who are called to do up to take a bullet for the citizens no matter what color race or creed they are and thats what they will come to but i think america has something shed like to say can hair or. Not i think its a false narrative and its funny that you give the example of chicago because a comma was this they thank city that actually had a secret Police Matter secret prisons where they were torturing africanamerican for decades and so the idea that black and brown communities are calling for police now what were calling for our community and unfortunately the only recourse we currently have is be that you see the police and so i do believe in diversity but were asking black and brown folks to go into a white the press the primacy of that have never been set up to actually protect people in communities of color and theres both in washington d. C. Theres a number of points i want to play thats lets just get to the one the simple one about diversity looking at it from the outside and to america it seems incredible to me that the police still has problems with rice when it comes to their own communities the communities that theyre in is that accurate. Well i mean one thing that has been shown is that having Police Officers coming from their own communities does not necessarily end the kinds of Police Violence that we see because the structures of policing about law and order often weigh more heavily upon black and brown communities and that doesnt necessarily change given the makeup of who is doing the policing police basing that have had a very long history in the United States and part of it originated in the slave patrols during when this nation practiced slavery and the way that the slave patrols evolved in you know after the civil war to still police black and brown people in public and that is part of our history of policing and because that still hasnt left thats part of the institution that is part of why we still see that no matter what some of the smaller reforms to police they still often is significantly more violent to a lot of the minority communities that we see in us particularly with black americans and especially with brown immigrants right now in Academic Circles in policing circles in this about things that anything any studies that have been done that you can you can suggest or cite that take a look at this very issue of diversity and other police listening to those studies is that do you have any friends on the police force like we do have a problem and we need to address it. I think specially in the last few weeks there has been a real public reckoning with forms of police not only with Police Violence but also with the unaccountability of policing right in many of our other institutions within the us when people are not following the law you know there are methods for them to be held accountable or prevent to be fired but weve seen that in Police Forces across the u. S. Theres a real barrier to that so that a lot of the Police Officers when they use Excessive Force up to and including killing people there really is no way for them to be held accountable and last through a lot of these really really public trials and even then that doesnt happen so part of the issue is not only just who is on the force but the ways in which forces people are held accountable for the kinds of force that they use when theyre on policing and so there have been you know given the public reckoning of death i think we have been seeing a lot of Police Officers and certainly legislators in localities and in states saying we need to be able to push for more accountability for less violence but if some of our other speakers noted given the ways in which we are to have a very militarized police force and given the way that there are serious blocks right now to accountability it still seems like some of the smaller reforms might not be able to do what a lot of activists are calling for which is relate trying to cut down on violence and equalize the tribute it meant all citizens across America Steve rogers there is a bunker mentality when it comes to the police force criticism of the police force particularly in the government and the u. S. Government is always same through this lens of kind of patriotism these are the people that join their duties its a very difficult job mistakes often happen thats not good enough anymore is that given what weve been hearing and more been saying in the last few weeks is it time for a real hard cold look a what police in america means. I think that there should be a real hard cold war within the police ranks and i have strongly advocated that good cops need to step up and turn in bad cops we have 800000 Police Officers in this country and there are racists there are bad cops like we saw many atlas that man just a floyd should still be alive and those cops have been arrested immediately and put in prison by saying that when we talk about accountability i agree but it must be inclusive or judges should be held accountable for letting violent offenders out of their courtrooms or immediately after a Pretrial Motion politicians as elizabeth said you know what elizabeth actually articulated i heard in the seventies and eighties the same old story from politicians with the same old music and nothing yes done so if were going to look at criminal Justice Reform we look have to look at the whole picture but keep in mind what weve seen today is the result of socalled defunding the Police Violence is getting as high as it ever has and i will tell you this that the blood of crime victims will flow like never before in this nations history if we dont there is we dont put a stop to this idea of the funding and dismantling Police Departments to marry a shaking a head to have a you makes a point you get in the police there is going to be violence. I disagree i think we have to reinvest and preventative measures and reinvest in actually you know in our community as a speaker mentioned earlier we know the police or the police is a concept that is can be traced all the way back to slavery and america has yet to reckon with slavery in this country in a way that actually creates healing and reconciliation and so yes will balance happen in communities of color yes will violence often happen and White Community because when you white folks have white on white violence black folks have lack of violence because when youre living in a community it it does these things do occur but that doesnt mean that we should not reinvest or reinvest in other areas that actually prevent violence long term versus just giving a blank check to the Police Officers to be able to come into our communities kill our men and women and not have any form of accountability when it happens steve lets get to the actual nuts and bolts of this the democrats have pasta a reform bill that does address things like racial profiling. Tough techniques when it comes out arresting people it wasnt in the like he had the pos by the senate but is that a good place to start is Police Reform and your opinion a good place to start well i believe criminal Justice Reform is a good place to smart to start as i share with you it should not only you. Be the police that we should be looking at but the courts as well as the politicians are male you know all these promises look if the police dont wake up in the morning and say look im just going to go kill somebody whether theyre black white or whatever once again i want to just emphasize the point that Race Relations in this country were having problems yes but its not the police thats causing it its not the Minority Community its the politicians its this system we have to work on changing the system so that politicians are more responsible people and keep in mind us. Your prior guest about well violence quite well and she says no but to tell. People in seattle right now and the people in chicago and people in new york city evenly stephen i have to say you all parts of the reelect Donald Trump Campaign this a president that just shared a tweet and then deleted it of somebody saying white power this is a man that has enabled a lot of radicals and that he lost saying its the fault of the politicians one of the politicians whom youre a supporter of. But with regard to that tweet i understand and i dont know this but he didnt hear the word white power i know the president ive spoken to him ive got to tell you the man hasnt a racist bone in his body and thats all news thats all the hype you see what you just articulated to me is what the Mainstream Media in this country is doing is ending fuel to the fires of racism this is the same president who just introduced or introduced a Police Reform bill that has the 1st step the 1st step back that especially a multitude of minorities benefited from that hes a recommended more money into Community Policing these are things nobody seems to hear or hear about all they want to do is get rid of the police well you get rid of police this is whats going to happen violence is going to increase how can i say that you know its not happening now elizabeth thank her in washington d. C. There is a surprised look on your face as steve nutley was speaking what are your thoughts. Well i have a few thoughts i mean one is that although the speaker suggests that this is a lot of the violence in the street is being caused by the funding one thing we know right now is that Police Budgets are at an all time high if we just look at the breakdown of cities in washington d. C. New york Police Budgets make up get much more money than Everything Else sometimes even more than education and Mental Health care and all of health care and employment support and housing combined so this isnt a problem where police are ready to fund it part of our problem is that weve actually deep funded so many other parts of our society we have no social safety net and we have the police to solve these problems for us im in addition part of my surprise is that one of the reasons that were seeing people out on the streets right now is in part because of the excitement from our current president right weve seen our president say a lot of racist things weve seen him support violence even in his own rallies you know weve seen him call for violence against people who are protesting against him at his rallies so part of what its what were seeing right now with a lot of people worry that at the very highest echelons of power in our president we have a president who supports and condones the very forms of Police Violence that people are out there protesting about a very spirited debate that i want to thank all our guests jim era barely Steven Rogers and elizabeth and kay and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website is there a dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. 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If you are in beijing looking out the Pacific Ocean youd see American Warships when mess was done somehow time is aiming to replace america and going to run the world well the chinese are not that stupid these guys want to dominate a huge chunk of the planet this sounds like a preparation for our 1st president George Washington said if you want peace prepare for war the coming war on china talk to on a jazzy. Its the u. K. s biggest hospital with the eventual capacity for 4000 covert 19 patients built inside a London Conference Center it took just. 9 days to construct with the help of Army Engineers dramatically expanding the Critical Care bed count and other similar sites are underway the actual london numbers could be much higher than advertised researches say that huge gaps in Testing Capacity that the government is now trying to close extrapolate that across the country and the spread of corona virus appears far wider than anyone thought. Im not matheson in doha the top stories on all dizzy are the worst is yet to come thats the warning from the World Health Organization on the coronavirus pandemic but w h os says its far from being under control as the number of cases continues to surge globally we all won this to be over we all want to get on with our lives but the hard reality is this is not even close to being over all the men
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