Hello im come all santamaria this is counting the cost on aljazeera the way you look at the world of business and economics this week europe does the continent deal with a rising china and a u. S. President who riles his own allies to the threats facing new york from a silent chinese economic takeover before trade war with the United States also as black lives matter draws the worlds attention will look at how Silicon Valley and the world of finance has really failed black people talk to the. State backed Cyber Attacks theyre nothing new but theyre also on the rise during the pandemic and the targets are the vaccine. These are i think we can all agree extraordinary times but zoom out and youll see the big picture is just as unpredictable were focusing on europe this week which is that a bit of a crossroads when you consider the pandemic as well as an expansive china and a retreating United States as we know President Trump has a habit of undermining his allies he surprised a lot of people by saying he plans to withdraw 9 and a half 1000 troops from germany and a decision to expand sanctions on a gas pipeline from russia to germany has been met with anger in berlin but it is the rising threat from the east. Looming large not only chinas human rights record its aggression towards its neighbors but fears that it could actually use the pandemic to establish its economic supremacy across europe well talk it all through in a moment with our guest 1st dominic cain sets the scene from berlin. Imports across europe vast vessels arrive from china on a regular basis offloading goods destined for the e. U. In the u. K. And then returning with goods for the Chinese Market but its a relationship that people in brussels feel is not equal we continue to have an unbalanced trade and investment relationship. We have not made the progress we aim for in the last years summit statement in addressing the Market Access various we need to follow up on these commitments urgently and we also need to have more ambition on the chinese side in order to conclude negotiations on an Investment Agreement this thought runs counter to the stated aim of the Chinese Premier League chang at an event late last month he seemed to indicate his countrys commitment to equality in trade what we are just require that we will enhance the cooperation with the rest of the world and will launch more measures to expand opening up our own initiative opening is just like the area one cannot live without it for a minute while opening to the world it will also work on maintaining the stability of the Global Industry and supply chain for the future so many governments in europe and across the atlantic see a stark contrast between premier leagues words and his governments actions the us secretary of state pulls no punches gerry is very strong our nation is with you our way and our of this is even. Here he is our g. By buying up words in greenville infrastructure. Reasonable lets say we must take off the golden blinders of economic eyes see that the china challenge isnt just at the gates its in every capital its in every borough that every province. Every chinese day rice. Ministers here have shown a marked reluctance to speak out so forcefully germany exported around 400000000000. 00 worth of goods to china in the last 4 years meaning many german firms have strong links with the Chinese Market links they cannot afford to lose. One analyst says this puts the europeans in a difficult position so this is maybe the one reason why the europeans and the germans are so has a tin in using this strong weapon of sanctions against china or because we want something from china we want to have that trade deal but we dont want to have a bad deal what complicates matters is the perception in many western capitals of how the Chinese Government treats its own people scenes like these in hong kong lists year have drawn strong condemnation from the e. U. And us the British Government has denounced changing chinese policy visa v. Hong kong we are deeply troubled about this that we put out a joint statement and the decision now lies with china but if it follows through on this legislation and implements it it would clearly violate the autonomy of the people of hong kong and it will say violate the freedoms set out in the u. K. China joint declaration which dates back to 984. 00 the Chinese Government bristles such suggestions. Merely that there is no single word or clause and they see no british joint declaration that enforces the u. K. Carry sponsibility for grant after its return the u. K. Has no sovereignty jurisdiction or supervision over hong kong after its return and therefore the u. K. Has no right to make responsible remarks on Hong Kong Affairs and interfere in chinas internal affairs for the federal republic of germany this poses an ethical problem its basic law as in shrine the liberalism to. Ocracy and humanitarianism to deal with and i advocate an open dialogue in which we continue to work with china on such important issues is the conclusion of an Investment Agreement progress in climate protection and our common role in africa but also on issues of the rule of law and human rights one berlin based analyst says that chimes with a view increasingly held in German Society in terms of Public Opinion we do see that people are starting to become more critical we have regularly asked what germans think about chinas increasing role on the International Stage very few people actually only 11 percent last year said that that was a positive development. And yet its clear that in beijing the desire is to deepen its investment in an involvement with europe in the near future leaving the europeans with a dilemma concentrate on economics and downplay humanitarianism or find new Economic Solutions to allow them to retain the moral high ground and into that question comes what some analysts believe is a vacuum of u. S. Influence under the current president regarding global issues like Climate Change the United States and the President Trump are not a partner in this project any longer so we need china as the global the other global power to cooperate with us on Climate Change we also need china are to remain the core of the multilateral world order so again the u. S. Under trump actually is not a partner in that any longer all of which means that in brussels and berlin there are many long term questions being asked dominic kane aljazeera berlin with us now from london robert courtly jr here is a visiting fellow at the helena observatory at the London School of economics nice to have you with us so weve got the split berlin slash Angela Merkel wants to keep those ties with china and then youve got the other sort of part of your you could say the brussels slash microns side which is more wary of that can can they exist side by side. To market morning thanks for having me i think its an interesting time of see chancellor protests over the Council Person save the last time next week and she has said she will use that time to have constructive dialogue with china which really sadly really doesnt really mean and. I think its important to look at it from an economic level which is that. China likely has a much stronger trading relationship with germany than it does with frances picture and since germany is the 5th largest trading partner its china where as france is the 70 freighting largest trading partner i think when it comes to human rights and even some actions of investments in emerging markets the e position that china is is unsustainable Going Forward its not going to work European Union also rolling out some protections for its industries in and and germany would know about that wouldnt have a fave had their Aerospace Industry and Technology Industries impacted already. Yeah theres an understandable level of concern around Chinese Investment in say europe but i think its also important to remember look both sides need well actually at times the chinese have been willing to invest where others havent and so between 20082008 china invested 320000000000 into the when there was no investment its helped regions to improve and so companies for even we forget that Chinese Investment owns chinese investors own although they own a significant daimler they own for a us court those have been Good Investments but the problem at the bottom line is and this is Something Else the marguerites best to get is worried about and many hes worried about is that there is no separation between the Chinese State and Chinese Business which again is not really compatible with the way the e. U. Works i wonder though if Angela Merkel is actually being almost prudent in her thinking with china given the other major relations your has with the United States is declining shall we say with regard to the United States the u. S. Is pressuring pressurizing germany to resolve issues like north stream to germany gets 70 percent of its gas from russia it doesnt seem compatible for the us to be spending an awful lot of money protecting and guarding germany from any vacation from washington are going to happen. And it costs a lot of money to have troops in germany so there is a troop there is a discussion around having troops going to poland and ukraine steps below being redeployed which we must keep with the us we can focus too much on them on germany county just because of its power just finally and briefly how would you describe the state of of trade in economic relations between between the us and europe right now it can get well i wonder if the nuances can get. Covered up by donald trump and the things he says about europes terrible it treats america terribly germany doesnt pay its dues to nato all these sorts of things. Clearly relations with the us and the australian the trade and and the loss of the tech stocks are front and center of that i think what you have seen or what you are seeing is part of a post over 90 movement theres a Global Economic realignment or deep globalization which has some people what it is and what you have instead i think is the prioritizing its future the case it has made for strengthening its own market its internal market its about the access that Companies Get its about the access that you get to customers and that thats the problem the problem is not necessarily that their actions strain but where the relations are going further all right robert courtly generic talking well europe the us and china with us this week thank you for your time thank you. The death of george floyd of the hands of a white Police Officer in the United States has opened up a lot of conversations about black representation in almost every sphere this is not a Movement Just about violence against black people it is about quote unquote the system. This number should shock you 0. 4 percent according to Harvard University that is the proportion of black people who got money from venture funds between 1926 day in less than half a percent in the period when money was really being freed up because of the emergence of dot com but disparities like this go back to the birth of the nation really equal opportunity has always been denied to the black community for example the net worth of an average white family its 171000. 00 for a black family it is roughly a 10th of that 17000. 00 which means when people try to start a business they know and have access to that existing Family Wealth but its also estimated that the spending power of people of color in the United States is about a trillion dollars and so someone out trying to redress the balance properly recognize the lack of diversity in the tech and Financial Sector one particular Venture Capital group Impact Capital has invested in 17 startups and is raising 100000000. 00 for a new fund or collins is the c. E. O. Of Impact X Capital hes with us from london now and its a pleasure to have you with us i know that you are all about other people and finding their stories was it difficult star mean the crux of what were talking about is the idea of money not making it into the hands of people of color is that what was that your experience. So my experience is i think shared by a number of other entrepreneurs what i found before becoming a Better Capitalist is what was reported in the Kauffman Fellows research recently that between 20012018 that we have and actually that we find that lat and diverse entrepreneurs actually have a much harder time raising capital in the 1st place but once theyve actually raise capital theres an interesting dichotomy what then happens is they actually are able to raise more capital than their non diverse counterparts and in addition they return more capital to investors 30 percent more capital after they actually exit so the interesting thing is i think that there is this there is truth that there is challenge in terms of raising capital but then theres this mythology that black entrepreneurs and diverse entrepreneurial teams dont return at the same if not a greater rate and the facts show us 260000 bounders studying 20000 start up companies that is that diverse entrepreneurs and i burst teams actually deliver more and are able to raise so what is it what is it behind you say the facts the facts say that what is behind those facts what is it that means that. Those returns are as good as in say. I think behind the facts is a very interesting sort of complicity and i said this before this if you look at Venture Capital Venture Capital is very very interesting at the moment among most people but idea that you can create in a single generation huge amounts of wealth think of beezus and sort of the richest person in the world right now that is created through technology and that Technology Business that he dont call amazon started off with venture backing because banks could next year fund his ideas they couldnt see in the future he was able to raise money through Venture Capital what we find is that there are generally funds that are not coming from diverse investors that are going to those organizations and that indeed the Better Capital industry itself shows itself to be one that likes pattern recognition so if theyre white men who are making decisions they make decisions that lead to an amazon more white men are back in order to make decisions to that more white men to lead to more companies that are like amazon and others because that is above the and what we dont find is that theres either pressure at the top of the organization in themselves to say they should do anything differently maybe feels as though what were doing is right we are the west coast we are Silicon Valley everyone else in the world envies us why should we change and incorporate women in people of color and by Decision Making ranks why should we invest in black and diverse country norks and women lead companies because weve found that if we back microsoft we back amazon you bet google if we back facebook all of those are Huge Companies and all of them are run by white men bested by white the challenge is if you dont break this and we dont have people like lp they endowments in the pensions that are putting money behind these organizations forcing these organizations to have a conversation about could they have had better results which the Kauffman Research that i mentioned earlier actually refers to we could get better results if we were using diversity then we will never get a change in this and that complicity the sort of idea that what. Going to do it the same thing forever and ever will continue to be one of the hampers to our military factors are billeted to actually grow really great business you used an interesting word they use said forcing a whole thing these companies and people to take a look at themselves and and question what the more they could be doing. Thats not great i mean if i just think of an unabashed human level its not right that people should be forced to think about that because they should have been things which have been thought about anyway and that obviously they should be thought about it all in an ideal well by now that we dont live in that but really none of this should be should be a hurdle what is it is it is it structural is it is it an unconscious bias what is it thats thats forced us to know want to mix and you make a very interesting point and you and i are in violent agreement about this this should not be something that needs to be thought about but when i was in boston and i received my 1st term sheet back 2025 years ago there were less than one percent bencher capital investing with 2 black entrepreneurs less than 4 percent which women lead teams it is now 2020 and the same numbers exist in europe in the United States that less than one percent of Venture Capital funding goes to black entrepreneurs unless it works a ghost women lead teams that is a number which hasnt changed over to the 20 years i dont love the way id love the opportunity for instance and i built a business i try and incentivize founders to stick around he employees to actually contribute in ways that see in almost superhuman but when we come to the situation of Venture Capital being invested it appears that incentives whether they be government backed others that not lead to the result of a more diverse set of Decision Makers and then allocation of capital so im getting further and further away from my perception that there are incentives they can actually exist and that there needs to somehow be more forcing function and that forcing function whether it be quotas or others needs to be taken into account and here in the u. K. Where i guess i sit here in london d there actually has been forcing function its been taken of thats been taken into account respect to women on boards of directors and in rather positions management so we do see that those exist if we go our way back to the 1960 s. And seventys in the United States we had formative actually at exam. Long civil rights bill to order to make sure that the systemic issues you may not be able to change peoples hearts and minds we need to change their pocketbooks which maybe drives them to and different sort of perceptions of future or what theyre actually being taken but quite frankly if we cant get to the point getting their hearts and minds to change the incentives then we need to make it we cant continue down this rumor another 30 year no exaggeration where just this area collins from impact x. Capital great to talk to you thank you thank you marc a sophisticated state based cyber act that is how straight in Prime Minister Scott Morrison described the player behind months of computer hacking attempts on government institutions he would go no further than that leaving it to the public in the media to decide just who he was talking about but the prevailing theory is that it has at least something to do with china though china denies any responsibility the pandemic has seen an increase in Cyber Attacks right around the world and perhaps oddly many have been targeted at the very Research Labs developing the vaccines or drugs to combat the virus researches and drugs makers dont necessarily expect to make huge sums of money from the deployment of their products but it will enable economies to open fully and that helps everyone not to mention theyd be plenty of kudos and the possibility of the vaccine being gifted around the world so who would attack these labs and institutions were going to talk to Robert Hannigan about that hes the chairman of the Cyber Security firm blue voyant international also previously the director of the u. K. s largest intelligence and Security Agency a well placed to talk to us about these issues robert you know after any sort of attack our immediate thought is who would do this but a cyber attack on the very people who are trying to stop this virus and this pandemic. All i can think is what yahoo would do that. Well its a great question because its a time when everybody is suffering under this pandemic in the sink this a bigger loss but actually doing the d months weve seen a big focus on the Health System so attacks against bomber Companies Like ants Health Institutions on the other for order makes it because so its not that surprising and if you think the most valuable intellectual property in the world right now a vaccine for coded 19 or any effective treatments i mean you can see why criminal that nation states would be going out of this particularly d nation states so lets talk about that this idea of sort of state on state Cyber Attacks is that more quote unquote effective or is that the end game rather than going after individuals or companies well this is that the high end most Cyber Attacks are criminal or about money most of what we all experience every day in our companies. In Cyber Attacks are typically crime but at the high end of sophistication nation states have been attacking each other are or at least 50 years at cyberspace and very aggressively in the last few years so theres a history to this its not suddenly started in london the example that weve had recently from a stray away the strain Prime Minister talked about state by still state backed cyber terrorism hes very careful not to say who he thinks it is but i think we can cite the cite the prevailing theory out there is that its something to do with with china and china just basically says no it wasnt us. Yes but the Australian Government as you say been tefl not to attribute this time but on previous occasions when theres an attack on the Australian Parliament last year attacks against a distant 2nd they did attribute to china and this attack looks quite similar in its methodology in its targeting of states institutions and organizations so there are obvious questions about whether this is china again given the tensions between china and australia kogut most recently when we talk about and again using the phrase the state by act of now and that turn this case could be the state or it could be a company which we see in plain sight the obvious examples when were talking china or the likes of huawei intake talk which people seem to have to fear about us i mean do you feel those fears a warrant is well there is certainly a worry about Chinese State facts and surprises because in china there is no distinction really between the states of the communist party and the private sector and while its not fair to say that every Chinese Company is simply in our. State if the state asked them to do something for the state they would have to do it they would have to arm the bill but also for their own self preservation so we have to be wary i think about companies that are banks that china signed they want sort of miami where essentially talking about a business cyber hacking it is a business how much money or what sort of sums of money being poured into it on both sides not just attacking but trying to fight back against it well youre absolutely right that its about money and the best guesstimates frankly about cyber related fraud run into the trillions of dollars to. And it is mostly about cyber criminal groups but nation states at the high end up doing this to a few political objectives for example we see that really concentrated example in the gulf recently with the attack on the Water Treatment facility by. A counterattack by is where they got syrian courts so d actual nice example of how states are doing lets look at our understanding cells in cyberspace and attacking and. What have you been talking Cyber Attacks with us this week thank you so much free time to appreciate it and that is what well leave things for this week but i want to hear from you your thoughts on this weeks show with the future episodes actimel h. A. E. You can tweet or direct message me with the hashtag a j c d c our inbox is open as well counting the cost of down to 0 dot net is the sense of the movie online of aljazeera dot com slash c. T. C. As well that takes you directly to our home page individual sports links and entire episodes you cant and that is it for this edition of counting the cost im come all santamaria from the whole team thanks for joining us the news on aljazeera is next. Rewind i can bring your people back to life im sorry but dates on the best of aljazeera is documentaries. Continues from. These districts rewind continues with the return of the lizard king steve shout when one east 300. 00 species are going extinct every 24 hours and a lot of that is attributed to wildlife trafficking we want on aljazeera play an important role. Ringback of face. Forced about control and threats of detention china is accused of trying to curb the weaker population. But again. And this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up donald trump is meeting top Congressional Republicans as he struggles to explain reports that russia paid a taliban fighters to kill american soldiers. A fake job for his wife and the misuse of public money former french Prime Minister francois fionn gets a prison sentence for a fraud
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