Education and the un has a step less than International Day to protect education from attack but how close make a difference on the ground what does it take to secure education in times of conflict this is in science too. Low welcome to the program. From afghanistan to me and and syria to nations in Africa School buildings are being bombed or used by groups in conflict zones students are missing out on schooling and teaches a threatened situation now worsened by the pandemic the u. N. Is particularly concerned about more than 75000000 young People Living in 35 crisis affected countries it says theyre in urgent need of educational support the world body recently adopted a resolution establishing september and 9 as the International Day to protect education from attack it aims to ensure schools remain safe and says governments should protect and increase funding for educational institutions and humanitarian emergencies that resolution was presented by qatar and cosponsored by 62 countries. Well the u. N. Secretary general welcome to the unanimous decision by the General Assembly the proclamation of not september as the International Day to protect education from attack as safeguarding the right to education for all contributes to the chief meant of Sustainable Development and nurtures the International Communitys decades long gains towards peace Economic Prosperity and social inclusion worldwide the chairperson of qatars education above all foundation shaker. Has advocated since september last year for a day dedicated to protect education from attack she says attacks on schools must halt the perpetrators of these heinous attacks must be held to account so that the millions of children deprived of education in conflict settings can aspire to a Better Future education is their lifeline and we must protect it. Now the u. N. Estimates more than 300000000 students were denied schooling and 28 team one 3rd of them live in countries affected by conflict or disaster thats one in 3 children and young People Living in conflict zones missing out on education 5 countries in central and west africa accounted for more than a quarter of attacks on schools globally and afghanistan assaults on schools tripled between 2017 and the following year nearly half of all School Aged Children to not receive formal education by the end of last year more than a 1000 education and medical facilities have been attacked in syria as the war continued 2000000 children are out of school in yemen and another 4000000 at risk of having to stay out. Lets bring in our guest joining us in amman we have to raise car and Regional Education advisor for the middle east at the Norwegian Refugee Council and in doha really harmonic executive director at protection of education insecurity and conflict for education above all of well welcome to you both thanks for joining us on program. I want to start with you if i can from what you and your teams are seeing on the ground why do we need this day this u. N. Day dedicated to protect education from attack. Thanks very much came but and i asked you one of the things thats absolutely crucial to us and something thats central to everything that we do is mit ensuring that children continue to access their right to learn that they have that opportunity to not only access that right but also to do it safely children and youth across the middle east where im currently working as well as across the world in the 33 countries where nic is working constantly under attack in the education experiences and we all know is that of course if we want to learn we need to learn in safe places we need to learn in places where we feel welcome where we feel empowered and where we feel encouraged something that helps us to ensure that hope continues to help us build our dreams and also to build on learning well talk a little bit later in the program about what impact not getting an education has but many are about to come to you and about asking how effective do you think this initiative this International Day will be and actually of the attacks there are of course those attacks that stem from organized militaries targeting schools or using schools as bases and becoming targets but how do you get the likes of book a whole rom to adhere to a resolution. I think the really significant thing about this resolution is that vides the global mobilizing moment for all of us to come together and to come together as a Global Community all levels of society top down Youth Civil Society and shows including those who are affected in nigeria itself to come together and say enough is enough were not going to tolerate this kind of violence against learners against children we should be safe to play against young women in nigeria who are seeking out knowledge which is their absolute basic fundamental right and i think the significant thing about this day is that it provides a really important way of providing all of us with a structure a permanent structure under which we can put all our energies to try and bring about change ok to raise the Global Coalition to protect education from attack reports that in afghanistan documented threats intimidation of teaches increased from 2013 to 2016 even as targeted killings actually declined most of those threats were directed towards Girls Education how do you overt attacks that stem from religious or ideological beliefs. Well one of the things thats most important is working together with communities trying to ensure that communities themselves understand what the importance of education is and where possible having dialogue with other groups particularly military actors where possible gaging with the u. N. And other actors so that they can support those conversations to help people to understand what it is that we are trying to achieve that education is important it is a human right it is something that every child every youth deserves to access so very much open dialogue but i think its also very much supported by having systems in place that ensure that yes we have International Humanitarian law yes its important yes people need to understand it but unless their actions taken when people come should be in this role and dont respect this more then no matter how much communities understand and respect education its going to be very difficult if action is not taken when that is not respected but that brings me to my next question really how you are really how youre professor of law as well as working with education above all we have the Geneva Convention we have International Law which says civilians and civilian objects should not be targeted and yet we see it happen with no consequence id like to just quote quickly if i can from the u. N. H. C. R. About attacks predominantly by israel on the palestinian territories and i quote in the west bank military operations by Israeli Security forces and attacks by Israeli Settlers harmed palestinian students educational personnel schools universities and gaza airstrikes and mortar shells damaged or destroyed hundreds of palestinian schools and universities most of them in 2014 so many have a question is is International Law failing children i think i think thats a really fair observation i have to start of by saying that we have a fantastic normative system in place on the books weve got 2 or 3 different strands of International Law humanitarian law human. Rights Law International criminal law all of which provide remedies and ways of building perpetrators to account. All of those legal institutions so on political will for enforcement that said i think that there is some political will there are cases of the big considered at the International Criminal court including cases relating to the palestinian israeli dispute so so i think there are there is some progress but i agree with you its just shocking you slow i think there is a mechanism another mechanism a nonlegal mechanism which is the Security Council i think there is some potential for putting into place political mechanisms for accountability in Global Governance institutions such as the Security Council that will help i think finally its worth saying that i think we can really give up on accountability i think to races right to say we need open dialogue with perpetrators to try and get. Theres been remarkable success by the. Process. Conflict process to try and get the release of prisoners by by boko haram for example but but we need accountability we do need people to know that if they attack schools if they attack children in places where they should be safe to play and learn there will be consequences and we as a World Community will not tolerate these sort of criminal acts coming back to that specific example i gave the conflict in gaza in 2014 do you think there was accountability for all of the attacks on Education Centers where the International Court is looking at evidence related to some of those bombings there hasnt been accountability there isnt accountability which is partly why my program was established 10 years ago the founder of the program shift from. There im uncertain as a recognised what actually there needed to be Political Leadership they needed to be a really important specialist project such as myself a project which is called project education and security in conflict and following that you know weve been working for 10 years on this subject and the Un Resolution is a absolutely wonderful combination of the work of that 10 years but were not going to start going to carry on being ambitious because we recognise point youve made which is there is and to belittle in context like the Israeli Palestinian dispute but also in in south sudan or in colombia for those perpetrators who deliberately and humorously target schools and educational facilities teachers and children who are playing when we think turris allowed to come here when we think of say yemen libya syria which i know you focus on were talking proxy wars exacerbated by countries with competing interests who are giving support to competing parties on the ground and of course these conflicts are impacting childrens access to education what responsibility should these come. Trees bear for supporting these conflicts think one of the most important things is that we need to remember that we need to Work Together with communities and we need to be szell based on what communities highlighting is important and what the needs are in their communities that way to respond to the rise so when communities value the inclusion of their children into a formal system that recognises their learning across the country then thats really important to work towards and that its not only about the particular perspective of a country whos supporting the education programming but also listening very closely to the communities about what it is that they want whats the end goal that they want for their children so they can achieve their dreams but im asking about International Accountability well i think that one of the things that we need to be able to do is that we need to have more. Global conversations when it comes to these sorts of issues discussing what is the place in education for all the political perspective of particular countries in particular supporters of education versus what are the actual needs on the ground and what is actually going to help to achieve those so sometimes those conversations are very challenging because of course everybody across the world from their different political perspectives has their own perspectives has their own accountability at home in their own countries which sometimes doesnt always support or help that particular action thats trying to be achieved on the ground in a country where were trying to aim towards helping children who have names who have dreams to actually achieve those and many have so you want to so you want to add to that what are you going to say that money well i was going to said actually i think you need both i think that you need both accountability which is Global National neagle systems need to ensure that theres accountability for tax in education and we need to work with communities themselves to ensure the that their voices come. Through i mean the example id like to give this is the research that was dark. In places like a gun a standard sassoons the Girls Education is valued when you actually asked local communities including those who expect sympathy towards the taliban about the value that they place in education everyone places a very high value on education and we need to cut through complex conversations and make sure that that commitment that universal commitment to the power and the vision of the transformative effect of education in communities i think you cant replace global governments institutions become to replace accountability and that is why kim this day the u. N. Resolution this achievement is so important because the u. N. As a Multilateral Organization new leadership to try and and and build a and and provide the vision and the leadership to take us forward we have education above all are absolutely committed weve been doing this for 10 years we put out a call to everyone to join us to join you in agencies to come up with ideas and new energy and make attacks on education an absolute thing of the past week. Deros strategy no deliberate attacks on schools and last week you celebrated 5 years of the safe schools declaration we want everyone to sign up to it we want n. G. O. S be more all leaders except for to sign up not just to the safe schools declaration but to just make no attacks on Schools Education teachers and pupils a reality so is what impact does interrupted access to education have for children long term and for communities long term across generations. Well it has an enormous impact and it has an almost impact on individuals as well and i mean so far weve managed to talk about communities and Different Levels of Decision Making but perhaps just to share one example for having a young person that weve been working with in recent months and this young person is good champ she is 19 and she says when i was in grade 9 during class we heard the sound of a wall playing and my school was bombed a group of students died and some students were injured by the scattered glass after the incident i was in bad shape mentally and i became afraid to go to school so at grade 914 years of age sham never returned to school and shamus a perfect example of what the impact is of attacks on schools and one of the things thats really important about this day its not only important for sham and young people like sam who have lost 81012 years of schooling because of the attack that happened in this school or because of the violence on the road to school when they were trying to get to School Safely or because of the checkpoint that they had to pat. Its really important also this day is so important because it sends a message to the children who have lived through these things it sends a message to the communities who are constantly frustrated by the attacks on school and the fact that Global Coalitions exist but dont see the impact improving in their communities and so it also encourages them to report to come forward and say this happened in our community and to report it and have it investigated so apart from that the impact also is the loss of learning the loss of dreams the loss of the house of a community when a school is bombed a school is the heart of a community it creates fia when children dont want to go to school because theyre afraid when parents dont want to send their children to school because theyre afraid when teachers dont want to live in a community because theyre afraid then we see a dead. Misstating impact on schooling on education not just now but for the generations to come where children and youth have missed their opportunities to access their right to learn so this day helps them to be aware to know to hold others to account that my school should be safe and i deserve to learn in a safe place later is that that point you made a school being the heart of a community is the very reason that sometimes schools a targeted i mean how do you how do you communicate that message that that is not ok and how do you get people to and here to that message but i think its a very challenging thing to do and in every community in every country its going to be a difficult discussion and thats the reason why you know when we work for example in organizations like n. R. C. Education does not work on its own we also work with other parts of to ogunnaike session whether its about shelter or Food Security but more importantly and i say we also work with a very strong passionate group of lawyers lawyers who not only ensure that young people have access to school because they have the documentation the birth certificates etc that they need to enter school but theyre also the ones who do the research about the impact to communities that a failure to acknowledge this has and then works together with our advocacy people to try to promote positive messages and sometimes very difficult messages to all Different Levels of the global structure to encourage them to take action to watch to see. The impact of of attacks on education on students. Particularly graceful women and girls why is that. I think just to say i really strongly agree but today said about the need for justice for victims for victims to be able to see the World Community is doing something about their suffering and i think the way to is expressed that was really moving i think in relation to girls and young women you can get a range of different ways in which this civic you targeted of course you have specific targeted targeting of girls schools which is an example really of misogyny or a belief that women shouldnt have knowledge that they dont have a place as far as education is concerned but theyre also in direct ways the fact that theres an attack on a school means that women are disproportionately less likely to be able to take the risk to go to school to return to school to school so the research that was john by the chief c. P. A. On the impact of attacks on on women and girls has demonstrated that theyre both positive and in direct consequences thoughtful for women and girls and you know came the thing is that this picture that i think youre opening piece pointed about uncollected conflict during the times in which we live i think one thing about education is quality education is it has the potential you if its directly and fairly distribution to break the cycle of conflict to to reduce the length of conflict and to allow the communities to build peace so i think theres really a lot at stake here i think all of us need to take the role of quality education and its potential to end conflict much more seriously there is your work right now focuses on providing strategic Technical Advice and support to n. R. C. Teams working inside syria what do you think after 9 years of war what are the major challenges for ensuring access to education for syrian children going forward. Well generally we find from the research thats been done both by the class and other organizations in education this 3 main reasons why children choose not to access educational their parents choose the 1st one is because they its not safe so whether its walking to school whether its checkpoints whether its the actual attacks on schools physically they dont feel safe being at school another one is the infrastructure has been so damaged there are some parts of the country where there are more than 5000 schools on the ground and yet theyre trying to educate 65 percent of the children in the country so when you have so much devastation and its sorry challenging to get organized patients join us its that youre from across the world to support the rebuilding of schools the heart of the Community Bringing People back to their communities helping them to once again feel like they feel welcome in their home and the 3rd reason is thats claimed by many many parents and very correct is that weve lost small then 30000 sorry 130000 teachers from syria and so they often complain about the quality and the fact that teachers are good people and theyre working hard but they struggle because theyre not trained well the in the process of being trained and theyre not yet able to provide the quality of education that Syrian People leave used to receiving price of the conflict were coming into the end of the program now many had like to end with you what can the International Community do to avoid having a generation all the young people coming through who have not had access to education and everything that comes along with that so its i think any one thing is a provision which is to make the commitment both financial but not just financial practical commitments to deliver quality education but i think in relation to the topic were discussing today i think the Un Resolution is a good start but its only a start we need to. Together with ideas with vision with ambition and you know to have our hearts on fire but our brains firmly on our list as we put together coalitions to try and bring about change and i think its not just a top down approach i dont think its just about people in new york deciding what should be done i think we need to establish a mobilization a movement of n. G. O. S youth just say enough is enough we will not tolerate this anymore either in communities or International Stage actors such as in syria or in yemen attacking schools using unbelievable foul on impoverished communities during war but i have lived there for a time of really appreciate both of you coming on the program and of course all of the work that you are doing to raise car in there and really have malik thank you very much and thank you turkey for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page that facebook dot com ford slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at a. J. Inside story or you can message me directly at conventional from me the whole team here for advice and. 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