Lathering a lot of. Talk about simply as intimate as death and grieving at a local pandemic well after one Difficult Conversations show you how you have few as. I look on much for the faith on why. And just sitting down to us explaining what the scene was about to grow the virus death and grieving and one last night nico jumped on and told us that a lot. Went to. Get not touch. Anyone and could not hug over. The last few weeks of his life. The fact that im not. In this. Instance an engine with. Which you cannot she and. Much of your. Guests. In. What he she me outguess has seen mark welcome to this chain tell me who my. Yes so thank you for having me on the show 1st of all of my name is has seen as im on i run compression a few knows in east london a few months i was from a Diverse Community and its such a time each. Movement. Thank you so much for me for having me back on my head or they say i am a clinical psychologist in mumbai india and im quarter of the book the could all know why just what you need to know about the global pandemic. Coming in. Thank you so much for having me my names caitlin about why im a chaplain at mount sinai hospital in new york city and im also a presbyterian minister. Will occur. In some ways and so far as im working with patients families and staff my days have not changed and in others obviously theres an increased amount of distance that i have to keep trying my patience and moments that are so internet and that otherwise i would intentionally be very close with them. You know when were going out at death we have a loss we always encourage patients and families were families to touch the body to be with their loved one to hold them to sing to them to pray for them and were having to get creative and think about new ways to mark and to create new rituals with people that. Are meaningful for that moment and meet people where theyre at. Can you design teams. Since not trying to win some of these. And not. That we need. The. Money soon that needs you. The most. When we. So the grieving process for me involves of 5 stages you know as a list as Elizabeth Ross has mentioned and that involves denial then theres anger around the situation where one cannot come to terms with it then that is bargaining where people fear they could have done more in the situation to help. You know prevent the loss of their loved one then comes the stage of sadness and grief and loss and depression finally with acceptance so in this lockdown the lack of being able to or the lack of being able to sometimes even see a close one gone. Increase is that your addition of denial and of angle making it so much more difficult to create and delays the process. Im just looking at your website we knew again contestants you know most i was an update about the Current Events a lot. Of people that they can still know how this you know how to be huntin when you cant be close to. People. Yeah so. We had to get creative. We know we are very aware of the grieving process and i will say that we dont necessarily see them in the. Stage but we have had to get. More training with the team when we organize our spraying so we can still allow a loved one to go out and do their walks with you know making sure where. There is a safe to bring to an even the deceased no past. The violence to us so weve had to take certain procedures. To cope because initially i was doing what everyone was doing were saying no no no we cant do we cant do anything and we just felt like tyrants and it wasnt part of who we were compassionate you know that all of our income passion in times of death and dying and having not some contact and connection engagement and then we literally overnight we just saw that crumble away so i think we just did whatever we could. And then. And then we we said lets lets lets find out what we have to do to move through this. And not. The worst because this. Isnt. The last ones and. Probably still many people who. You know i would call that incredibly painful i mean. I dont think i could have ever imagined anything like what were seeing right now. And as far as people dying alone and not being able to say goodbye i think its really important to help people find ways to say goodbye and to help people figure out how to maintain a relationship with their dead. I encourage families to just say out loud the things that they need that they need their loved ones to know and to hold hope and hold faith that in some way or another that that message has conveyed to them you know i think about the losses ive experienced in my own life and i maintaining a relationship with my own death relatives is something that is so intrinsically important and that has really shaped shaped my life and changed my days still. And so i we find different ways to do that ive films outside of rome so people can say the rosary aloud or sometimes i will write family members theres a muslim family recently who i brought a crime to and wrote on a post to know everything that there are that their loved ones wanted to be said to them and i asked the nurses to read that post ringback it over and over and over again when they went into the room to coster their care so that the family could know that whether they could be there or not that their loved one heard their words and. The messages that they need them to know or settle out. Simply. Yes absolutely and i feel that Palliative Care is very critical in these moments because as difficult as it is for the families to deal with the loss of someone whos gone and thats a more Long Term Plan that we need to prepare for well for those who i realize saying that the hope is deteriorating time a shot and technology can come to create advantage o. B. O. Even are you know probably looking beyond just killed in the symptoms even are looking at Mental Health concerns the psyche can help sawston and ease the situation but those who are seeing a way and succumbing to one thing. And guess now this gentleman his name is joe. Joe cos. You know he. Was late. And so. Much and she said well what do you. Know. With us on the street when. We were permitted to have 10 people at the viewing but we needed to enter the funeral home in small groups of 2 to 3 people so many of our family and friends for a man able to join us to pay their final respects. After the funeral home we processed to the cemetery where we were able to watch the casket be laid to rest at the grave site but we were not permitted to get out of our cars we were not allowed to have flowers we could not have a priest come to give a blessing let alone have an actual funeral it was very difficult and it remains very difficult my mother and brothers are also sick with the virus so at this point i have still yet to hug my mother at all since my father has passed. I have been with my immediate family which my husband my son which i am very grateful to have them here with me but i have not been able to see any other family members really so the grieving process has been very different than what you would consider to be typical. Dinos against the many comments in our region chat about experiences that people were having with death and dying in funerals she just for instance says that in donna the number of fewer attendees are limited to 25 people other places it could be a nice life change how do you treat a few youll see. Such ease can pass but that they cant really they months right he gives. So what weve been doing is just working with the guidelines and being and being creative so weve been weve been saying to our news you can actually so weve actually bought some tripods so we set phones are one phone is just actually filming the whole video and another one is another phone separately is life changing the videos and people can be. So weve been using technology. But then also theres some 7 inches that just allows only 5 members. And then they dont even allow any filming so. You know its really some places a really really tough and some places are just much more relaxed and you know you can have they have their own streaming this so why did you want to mention if the same is what cindy was saying about our fathers you know. Back in early april we did a funeral for. His young gentleman who died in his early fortys of bangladeshi missed him already 4 children in the age of under the age of 12 and so what happened is that you know we said that the fear could happen because as men mentioned you know one of the 1st thing that sets in in terms of grief is denial so you know the families would say well how do we know its that person are saying you know you know youve got a point how do you know its you that says ok we can take a picture well how do you know you havent taken that picture from some rows so i knew i arranged the wife to come into hearing and at this at the end at the last right the last minute she turned around and said no shes not going to because come and doing due and fearing because her children have said that. If they come if she goes and she dies and then they wont have anybody that you know now i have anybody said i would have lost both their parents so in the end white idea it is just video called the. And showed her husband and it was really really distressing because he still had all his lines lines in he had his double and i was doing my best to you know put soft soft material around me so i wouldnt know as you know horrifically so thats just just just as one of the many many you know. If you know. The sounds. Which is. What i am seeing that in the times of these locks nouns the biggest challenge is a conflict internally between a lot of things of it shows one of the logic where you understand why theres a social distance although you may logically be able to process why youre not being allowed to meet why youre not being allowed to see the emotional aspect and dealing with that is so crucial as well and in these times for most they are fortunate enough like a scene i was mentioning to have people around them to let the logic prevail over the emotions but thats going to do that a lot of people are dealing with it by just suppressing these emotions and that needs to be dealt with and we need to create in a way to ways its a lot of the work i can see no i dont allow them or to native stew grieve you know its very unfortunate if you look at a lot of people dont even have the fortune of seeing their you know close one who has passed away if we look at countries thats a part of the research for the book that we had written in china that was a lot independent of which religion you belong to you are not all the bodies were cremated because they feared that the widest would spread if there was a body or and that was despite conflict despite systems from the families it was almost like the body or the one who espoused if im cool with one thing became state property and always will cost against it so these are difficult times and difficult situation. Sions just to add even yoda in india initially they had refused to buy rio 2 we have a Large Population off hindus of muslims of christians and for everybody and some form or the other i think funerals are no more the same that they were there rights and it shows do not proceed the way they use to and its a its a difficulty you know that we have to move and deal with in these times we need. Some recent change rituals about what the jews that when something. Was it mum teach. Ins me seeing in you. You know i cant speak so much to the burial processes in new york right now i know that its complicated i know that there have been a great deal of barriers and and also that people are were are doing the very best they can to accommodate the structural. In a way that is can grow Public Health priority is listening listening to my colleagues talk i just im reminded of the importance of storytelling as something that is so as a such an essential part of all of these are actual grieving process seeds and its something that im really encouraging families that i work with to figure out how to end rather than suppressing those experiences rather then its so easy right when were all a home to for that to not to mark the change in time what happened in the era but we are all this morning looks the same way as your world this afternoon except theres been this mess of whole ridge in your heart somewhere between then and now and i think it is so deeply important to ive heard of zoom wakes and zoom ship and i think i think its really really important to have sacred space and sacred opportunities for people to share stories about their dead and to speak to their beloveds and to do that in community because its its not something that can be done on. Any. Whites in. Digital morning grieving church home too. So he could shogun a few 100 and theyve seen i watch. And teach you how to maam to age on a device that can move around and in the relatives can actually be part of that if you process michigan one other thing is you mentioned zoom and this is saying that he wanted to the thousands you know each 100. 00 people turned it on while its true well its not something. You can see. If you know. You shoot one of the things that were actually seeing is that some of our audience are not finding these Digital Process is actually very comforting im just not this and alan and sudden anger when mixed up together we just leave. They are. Sometimes if you will the most best time you can have but youve got me coming here as the welsh you comforting your remembering the great life its a very prose and then you got an i pod on a roll. And thats that thats you know. When you do even though absolutely i agree with you know him you know as a Big Community experiences for many of the traditional communities and you know even the Young Community they come together they they reunite they connected took the person has passed away you know there is a really really strong bond that brings a funeral together. And now were seeing theres this virtual virtual fear north taking place. I just think its better than nothing as much as you know it may be really surreal it may be really upsetting that you cant be physically there after glitch or come up with you know now and i was only allowed 10 people so how. Now theres another 818. 00 got through the gates and then even then they were saying they kept saying that this this would have had about 500. 00 people on it and it was being filmed by every Single Person i dont know what they were doing because it was no restrictions. You know you know i just think that you know we have to make the best possible situation of what we have and. I mean to where ive got a few you know where theyve actually you know is going to be live stream so you know the family asked can they drive into the actual crime and toria and watched and be part of it and straits whether its the star said no you know thats going to. Keep it on there so and then so i know what theyre going to do theyre going to sit outside the crime and torment parts of it in a family is doing whatever they cant to be to be part of that funeral because its an essential part of you know of saying goodbye its the final right so its the last right so its an extra its and. People are going to do whatever they can and as kevin was saying that you know to create these stories keep that person alive whether its in your heart for your prayers or its through talking about that person for moralization and even thats thats thats thats becoming a big people having memorialization. Zoom or one of the other media platforms and they are very very you know the very very popular because it means instead of just ending now its becoming a global attendance. Its new isnt it strange that suddenly something that was very uncouth to do a few i teach is stream it to get out seems to be the way that were all. 31 will trust and and need. The tools not mean. To greet each even though it may not be able to. Mean. Personally i must have handled close to 5 or 6 covert related and as us and we have performed a moment as the dry illusion on those people that passed from coded so our traditions and our rituals are being practiced but at a very minimal level as a pay through the words that i offer to those who are grieving their loved ones is to know that it is ok to be sad and to sit with that sadness and to feel it and similarly as difficult as it may be know that your absence may be helping someone else not suffer the same fate as your loved one so i pray you are able to live a very empathetic life and one which we heal from and we get through after he stuck to his. Thats been a lot of funerals and im just thinking that. When you can give them an ask you all to do so if you ate into the next meal in hand you disgust. Shop so in providing comfort to those we care about there sometimes right now is a lot of kilter for individuals who are not being able to make it to these funerals and to them i would say you know try and have more or use more technology to have a smaller portion of meetings we need to acknowledge and understand that the where physical meetings work with 10200 people can not translate the same way with technology the groups need to be smaller and weaker like its been with say we need to allow people the opportunity to also share their stories and join into the grieving process so not only is it important for friends and relatives to see the grieving process but to help the family and the close wife go through it if they have the time permits i would like to share a story which has a message for all of us in your. We are at the end of this young. Man and he just uses words of comfort. He find the story. Without much. It is hard to see it is you you do this professionally. So the main thing that we say to the families at the moment is you know the really a self we have feelings in mom said we did a lot of time and it was initially so its a tough call it was a tough time to be enough so it was like i was going to let carnage i was exhausted or so i watch in those athirst few weeks and just say you know be kind itself kind to. Be trying to do the. Right even my duty into the show but i give you the final answer in sentence or what. A colleague texted me a hoodie the other day that said if you have a sapling in your hand it seems like the end of the world is near planted and i think that that is that is my hope and my prayer for all of us right now that these losses that these stories that this pain that we will plant our southlands and we do it together and we find ways to be together and to share our stories and that to remember that our matter. And. Business leaders is by no grasp our. Business leaders is by no brass. Madagascar a breathtaking tropical paradise. Where its former protected. Are now diverse. We followed their journey as they put their lives on the line to. Risking gets on that account. On aljazeera. I dont know our entire nandan the top stories around as there has been more detail on how badly the coronavirus pandemic is damaging global economies a further 3200000 people a fog for unemployment in the us in the past week takes the total number of people who have lost their jobs since the outbreak began to more than 33000000 what we know is this is a white house very eager to bring back the economy pushing very hard as a solution to these job losses that are historic in nature being compared to the great depression