It really puts a quarter of its population into quarantine to contain the corona virus should other countries follow suit or is it too little too late to stop the spread this is inside story. Hello im james is with the number of dead rising fast the 3rd highest number of cases worldwide and 16000000 people forced into quarantine italys government has ordered some of the harshest measures outside china to try and contain the coronavirus its in his economic heart is under strain the financial and fashion capital milan resembles a ghost town or weddings funerals football matches and other large public gatherings of canceled everyones been banned from leaving 16 provinces in the north many flocked to train stations and airports before the lockdown came into force its at least until early next month when not is that such an enemy than what is happening in my city is worrying me and its also saddening because milan is a lively city and to see it like this today is almost a defeat for me i never would have thought this would happen for them are the one who were able to leave because there were no instructions i asked the Italian Foreign office and other than taking all temperature they cant really do much. Its it is government is asking the European Union to implement urgent measures as the virus spreads quickly across the continent the u. K. Is imposing 2 weeks of mandatory self isolation for anyone returning from northern italy france with the 2nd highest number of cases in europe has banned gatherings of more than 1000 people. Lets bring in our panel to discuss all this further here in the studio with me we have andrus coppice hes a lecturer in the department of psychology at the university of london who researches Human Behavior and uncertainty in the land via skype we have mother lisa problem both shes a journalist and editor of the italian daily newspaper correa la della cetera and in geneva and hes spyro a professor of Population Health science and policy of mt sinai welcome to you walt thank you for joining us for this discussion but of the say if i can start by speaking to you were going to talk about the facts here were going to talk about the science but 1st want to get a little bit of the mood can you tell us what it feels like right now in milan you know its its really we aired a heavy line is anxious and wore a that because having one asked one to stand at this is we president in the end none of us has ever had the experience of Something Like thats most of the population has not pulled through the war well so it is really new and people are adjusting companies are jobs being. Marked lorca on hold but still its its a difficult also not web that people are and yes so we are waiting and the numbers are always more alarming ok well well talk about some of the restrictions that have been put in place a little bit later but army in geneva id like to talk to you about the case of its really why in your view is a Public Health expert have things got so bad in italy. Well to begin with. Italy has a. Lot of population and theyre more vulnerable and i think that although italy started off testing as soon as they thought about it its and they could it just wasnt apparent. The scale of it and there are several lessons that weve learned from china that only does becoming clearer now 1st of all. Even though china looks as if it contained or suppressed the epidemic by looking down in one hand and facing depend a current thing that the whole country in china was placed on lockdown there were no one with allowed to travel anywhere if you wanted to travel to beijing you had to sell quarantine for it had to go to man to quarantine the 14 days now in italy you know looking down in the northern italy as as we were seeing is is unlikely to be as effective it could help in some way suppress some of the spread to switzerland 100 to me where i am just north of italy but at the same time and this is a virus which exposes all the flaws in the Healthcare System and you know some of the 1st people to get infected with Health Care Workers and it has an overpopulation then for example south korea which has a base in a number of cases infected but you know italy has 7 times the number of this so the virus itself exposes the flaws in Healthcare System the flaws in Infection Prevention control and the vulnerabilities of the population that it is infecting so here we have a really vulnerable Elderly Population or population with a lot of crime abilities and the virus is bringing that to the fore ok marilee so if i can ask you about how this appears to have started in italy i know your newspapers done a lot of work on this and i believe its all been traced to one town of 16000 people in number d. And also it seems the local hospital might actually have spread the disease. Yeah the problem here is that and its happening i think everywhere in europe and elsewhere in the u. S. That we dont have a case derail patient 0 so we know the 1st person that got impacted but we still dont know today who from who it took the virus so that a huge problem and thats the problem that every country is facing right now so it happening called on your knees most down at any one time detected flora quite a while until the guy was. 38 and got 3 seek and then they tested him and then he scored that he got on a mattress but in the meanwhile you know the old that was infected that and the book elation around him also he had a very. Strong social life so he had on and on america on the map so many people in the restaurants and from the ara you know it was almost unstoppable and i assume in those early stages that the fight was so much is are known add some dress to the scare factor in all this i mean in some ways its almost the opposite so in the beginning if theres a lot of unknowns i think our human mind is very well equipped with kind of keeping any type of threat at bay so most people when they hear about the virus the 1st time when they hear about the spread of it maybe in Different Countries and government is urging you to do small sacrifices in your daily knife most people will not be very villain to do that because they feel that day will be far and i think what you know from my research but also from research from others is that people are very good a kind of neglecting on vaunted information as long as they can so i think what you can see in most countries very much matches with the human mind to every in the beginning a very reluctant to give up anything to secor find something to invest in. A bit more effort in order to kind of. Increase the greater good so i think in the beginning the no next year and haunts us our tendency to kind of reject anything that leads us to invest more effort or to kind of threaten us a little bit morally so i dont want to get too political here but there is of course a political element to this and there is the sort of historic backdrop the historic tussle in italy between the regions and the capital row house that played out yet thats been a problem. Senator in moneygall point of view and also the political handling of the situation because the every region has you know can susies whole new epidemiologic. Things that are as and and the same with their politics so last friday between the roman government and the regions that was about to lock down a lot of the governance of the beneteau one of the biggest region affected by by the virus said that the match there are too strong so i really think that of course italy is especially difficult because at least 3 you mentioned but i also think that you it will be difficult everywhere in the western war to end so i guess that italy is really a test case of for everyone else watching because its so much easier for a central dollar man to use an employee tyrion government to to put in place that tapestry and you know it commend them for an open society its much more difficult you say a test case and a case study for many countries around the world and some of that test is how much you should contain people and whats your message to them its worth telling you that one of the leaders of italys governing coalition try to pass on messages. Nicola. Called for calm in a video he recorded while he was on isolation at home after we could go posting this photo on instagram say lets not lose our habits we cant shut down milan or its really our economy is stronger than fear lets go for an aperitif a coffee or a pizza so thats one of the key political leaders who now has the corona virus how does that add an address to the staff factor in all of this well i think its for governments for how foreign is ations its a very fine balance to kind of trying to get people are hurt and to induce a sense of urgency that they should stay at home for instance that they maybe should avoid going to Public Places that they should wash their hands regularity and so forth so they need to induce a little sense but then he did dont want to have it kind of slip into a panic so i think in inject so i think thats a very fine line dees organizations have to set so i know on hand what you know is that if. Officials stress how uncertain it is that for instance if you go out you might be fine others might be fine if you stress that uncertainty people become very optimistic and they kind of feel like well things will be fine i dont have to do anything on the other hand if you want to kind of end up the panic button a little bit then emphasizing on the harm of the disease then this will increase more panics you can see in italy more deaths reported you might have heard of somebody who you know who died who rose and in danger of dying now divel being of other people becomes is at the forefront of peoples minds and now people become very pessimistic and set into does more panic mode which has ironically some benefits because it gets people to be more preventive to me to be more precautious in their actions but obvious. For individual traveling a sense of panic going to the empress of midsomer around them is not great for their wellbeing but of course it also has a desire stress effect on the stock markets which are plummeting on the oil price which is crashing lisa back to you just quickly tell us what the restrictions are that you are now facing so case that the lockdown hairy out which is not really a quarantine area like han but still there are restrictions so you cannot go in and out these huge area and 16 province is. But the thing is that its very happy to the Single Person because you need to step certification to go out and enough and of course they are doing checks to and there are some checkpoints somewhere but not everywhere so i mean if you get caught then you risk even to go to jail but still they cannot consult everyone ok but can you can you for example go to a restaurant can you go to work can you go shopping at the moment ok you know. Our restaurants are open only until 6 pm and then their roles are you going to go to a restaurant in the evening and in moscow the subs are closed. Others are close what we hear there is are roles that all Sports Events are. Being just made it closed doors so without bobby without an audience and. We you cannot go to jeem you can go to work but you know only so some companies are working from that everyone is looking for other companies that are you know doing some shift is so that there are less people around in the offices and those are the restrictions now in italy do you think they are sensible restrictions and what should other countries make of them. Coming back to the Lessons Learned from china it was the same there where as in no one was allowed out anyone who was out had to wear a mask people were strongly discouraged from leaving the home and in some bases werent allowed to. Now as melissa pointed out a government in open societies can enforce those measures i think its deeply important for the government to actually tell the truth and there to be no spin no political profiteering because public trust depends on the Public Health depend the public trust so in order for those you know those conditions to actually be effective. Then you have to be have a trust that they are going to work and in reality they will work to a limited degree. But you know the problem and you know again coming back to the patient there we dont know the patient there in any country we dont know in china we still dont know the origin of the virus we dont know the animal and we do know that the Health Care Workers in hospitals are quite often cite cell transmission and thats exactly what happened in lombardy and there were several you know in the 1st week there were several 5 i think patients and 5 Health Care Workers infected and so this is an ongoing problem and until we get a handle on that type of transmission and the transmission that we can see the invisible transmission that is. Passed on in as one of the 1st persons did when youre not aware of that school kids. Are not going to die from this disease but they certainly can get sick there wont have a fever its much harder to detect and thats why of course you know its just taken the drastic step out of the schools so any however so i mean let me ask you about the lesson for other countries from this because in italy is used see the public gatherings have been severely restricted and yet in other countries very close by youre in switzerland you know the situation in from swear gatherings of over a 1000 people are banned germany where andreas comes from originally theyre still having football matches potentially with tens of thousands of people attending here in the u. K. Opening in a matter of hours one of the biggest horseracing festivals in the world the Cheltenham Festival is going ahead im told over the days of that theres about a quarter of 1000000. 00 people attending if you had an elderly relative what would you say to them should day in france in the u. K. In germany should they attend sporting events of their over 70 whats your thoughts. Well thats a very specific way of protecting people and yes i think it is important i mean all of these things are taking place as you say in the u. K. And in germany and to some degree thats really helpful for population that mean were humans and we really you know we are a social people so its very very hard with this fire this is not a war you know a disaster where its a spirit of the bits and we can you know get together to to combat it because that is one of the ways the virus wins in the u. S. Because this is much madness is i college in a the basketball season and its you know this is a a very difficult time for lots of countries. And i think we do have to protect you know the groups that we know are particularly vulnerable and remembering that theres been a lot of times when this virus has been compared to spanish flu which had a way of 2 percent now in italy with more tax rate of 5 percent which is pretty high. And what that what people forget about spanish flu is that a lot of people died not from the virus but from the bacterial pneumonia that followed so i think we have to start getting really smart about how to protect those who are vulnerable those who have either come abilities like cancer or in question and say ok lets lets anticipate they might need antibiotics for bacteria disease lets make sure they have at the opt for nutrition lets make sure they have excellent care lets think about how we might want to you know quarantine or provide extra protection now to residential villages one of the reassuring things about this virus is that kids this is being protected by that have been a kid which is great thats not what we saw in 2001 and find 20009 and pregnant women were in a very much disadvantage or also because we saw. You know that their unborn babies for very much at risk thats not certain that we saw particularly in size in a tour at least we had some posed pieces here where closing the schools makes good sense in many ways so that schools kids dont get it and magically in and then shared it particularly to grandparents and he i mean i dont i stop there for a moment because i noticed that you referred to the situation in the u. S. As being like march madness let me refer you to a comment that came from a chap called thomas for he was the Homeland Security advisor of the United States and he was that job for the beginning of the trumpet ministration and yet he has said this on twitter there is a clear lesson for economic advisors worried School Closures and social distancing will lead to eco loss theres no advantage to being a late mover now its really will lose unrecoverable productivity and be too late to prevent peak disease spread and dress thats a former advisor of President Trump a President Trump coming out attacking the Democrat Party and saying everyone. Including the media is overreacting one assumes it doesnt help the situation if everyone is not on the same page well i think there i mean there are several potential negative consequences for that i think if the situation turns dire knew us then i think the Us Government would have to have a somewhat of a future and i think just because youre 400 highlighted how important trust this if youre on the mind that trust how then youre react to that i think. And so they ever be i think. A negative consequence of not of conflict now say oh this is not a problem and it turns out it is much more of a problem i think in uncertain situations to any leader and to think this is what. Was said before and its important if its uncertain to say that it is uncertain because once things turn around then you lost the people you lost the trust so for instance if you say this is not a problem as it is as if it would be certain and then it turns out that its actually a problem then you kind of lost people so i think one of the recriminations weve psychologists always have to kind of highlight this is not a certain situation it is uncertain the set of consequences and that people make their minds up annie is there a nightmare scenario for all of europe and weve got to think about the whole world here that in europe italy is not the would just its just the 1st. Yes and we we really dont know what this looks like. You know uncertainty is a defining characteristic of any pathogen and pathogens and so are a political but epidemics are not the main pathogens that distinguish between right and left between the ted is in democracies but epidemics to the politicization can be very important and often is in thing a point as we know it doesnt help that you know this is the 1st time weve seen in a women beginning of a nascent pandemic this is our 1st experience of that we have no global we have no european immunity we have no protection we have no treatment and so you know what we and i think with what we doing again to try and learn some lessons from china is that china was able to use of shipping almost 50000. 00 extra Health Care Workers now we cant do that here in the u. S. Cant do it there and were going to see this sort of evolution of the virus as it becomes endemic with the around transmission ok marilyn seeing that as she was sure this marilee supplier now around the world having seen things close up in italy what do you think the lessons are. The lessons are that you have to be careful from the beginning and start taking measure from the beginning because the program may need that he also mentioned an important thing at the governor last year and also the leader on the little credit party who got sick and the week before he was in milano having us brits and. The thing was anybody that we had the 1st week of fannie and then the 2nd week because everyone was so scared about the economic consequences of what was going on they said milano to the nano goes on you know and. And to bonaire as they say that everything was i was going to be fine and it wasnt ok so not only so im going to stop you there and go back to annie because this has been a really quite depressing conversation anyone whos watching this around the world is going to be worried whats your final thought as the Public Health professional here on the panel. We do have something to look forward to china has as almost finished a trial of the drug when does a v a which seems to be effective in treating people so thats good news thats going to be a mile marker as i said kids the fact that kids and a protected by virtue of being a kid thats useful i think one of europes and the greatest strong point here is that were still a very social you know conglomeration and we need to member that were protecting people not borders and thats a fast wrong that you know focus point then simply raising the door bridge and setting travel bans and travel restrictions we know what works we know that we need to be a test people we need to you know get a trace people and we need to better look after people and we had we had to take Health Care Workers because once we lose then then were in serious danger and we need then i had the take of on the clips i think that we are actually learning were going to have a lot more data in the next 2 weeks ok well thank you thanks to our 3 experts marleys a problem both in milan professor and he sparrow in geneva and undress capice with me in london there are lots of our knowns out there but hopefully what we know about small crucially what we dont yet know are a bit clearer after this Program Coverage of the corona virus continues around the clock analogise era and on aljazeera dot com where you can watch this program any time you want you can make your comments or suggestions of what we should discuss next time around for me and all the teen in doha in london keep washing your hands also using. In 2013 cases of getting great shock to asia and the world its almost like young men making sure theyre on aljazeera asked men in cambodia what drove them to commit violence against women i dont know whether its rape im doing it because a condom for a girl a male in 2016 has anything changed normalize ation of violence against women unfortunately i think is still a very common pattern around the world rewind its a mans world on aljazeera. Explaining terms of policy towards africa its the Challenging Mission set his secretary of state mike pompei on a 5 day visit to the continent the visit comes after the white house announced a travel ban on 4 african nations and a withdrawal of troops from west africa. I think it just demonstrates the fun of the guys and the priority for us and for ministration. Despite tribes travel ban being extended at the end of february to take in the 4 african countries including the continents biggest economy insisted that the u. S. Is open for business. We understand the differences im similarities have cultures across the world. So no matter what you see aljazeera will bring you the news and current fast that matter to you. Aljazeera. Being a refugee means starting again. But building a new life in a new country is no easy task like a private eye. Witness follows one of the last Refugee Families from syria to be granted an american visa. From their personal sacrifices to the families to try and. Meet the syrians on aljazeera. Whoop. Oh im so raman here in doha these are all top news stories here on aljazeera 60000000 italians will have to stay at home unless they can justify their travel as the government extends krone virus emergency measures nationwide the government has banned all public gatherings as the number of dead jumped to 463 on monday francesco bari has been to a supermarket in the sun a lot better in northern italy and explain some of the restrictions now in force according to. Only 3 customers can and that the dine so if i stay inside but he clearly id look around because we must keep away from each other i mean one meter from
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