As the world filed the row he can get people 700000 but a military crackdown in 27 but made by his leader Aung San Suu Kyi denies claims of genocide why is this one time champion of human rights defending the army which kept her locked up for years this is inside story. Now and welcome to the program on stag route 2 years ago military launched its crackdown on the rohingya after attacks on its soldiers by members of the mining was the minority now the un describes what happened next as a text book example of ethnic cleansing the army was accused of right torture and murder villages were burned to the ground and almost 3 quarters of a 1000000 rohingya were forced to flee to ny bring bangladesh where they now live in the worlds biggest refugee camp a stateless people the gambia wanted me in the military tried for genocide so it went to the International Court of justice in the hague but me in my head of government and nobel peace laureate Aung San Suu Kyi she has dismissed the case as quote misleading and incomplete and in court she took sides with the same generals who kept her under house arrest for decades. Can there be genocidal intent on the part of the state that actively investigates prosecutes and punishes soldiers and officers who are accused of wrongdoing or kind today suffers an internal conflict between the buddhist alekhine army and myanmars Defense Services muslims are not a party to this conflict but may like other civilians in the conflict area be affected by security measures that are in place. We pray the court to refrain from taking any action that night i would rate the ongoing conflict and Armed Conflict and peace and security and rakhine for many Rohingya Refugees watchdogs on suit to deliver her testimony in court they called her a liar Stephanie Decker has more from coxs bazaar in bangladesh. These are the people who endured those her renders atrocities at the hands of me and maurice the military and these are the people who are being referred to in the case at the International Court of justice people have been calling for justice for a very long time its almost 2 and a half years since hundreds of thousands fled in just a couple of weeks across the border here into the southeastern part of bangladesh where people also want to go home and that doesnt seem to be the case is it thats going to happen any time soon there are huge challenges ahead yes hugely significant that you had sung suchi aunts are questions are aunts are allegations of genocidal intent at the court but many people will say that this is not going to address the immediate issues of when and how these people are going to go back to be repatriated we were speaking to the head of the Un Refugee Agency of bangladesh and he was telling us that even if repatriation started tomorrow it would take an incredibly long time to process the sheer amount of people here this is the equivalent of some of the Capital Cities of the world yet this is a refugee city built on tragedy and trauma Stephanie Decker aljazeera for inside story. Well lets bring in our guest now by skype from the hague break bread adams executive director of the Asia Division of Human Rights Watch in london cure when the executive director of Human Rights Network and from. The International Lawyer and head of the Justice Coalition welcome to all of you and brad your there at the hague it must be an extraordinary thing i mean were talking about someone here who had been compared to Nelson Mandela to see hood now in court defending the very generals who locked up and arguing that this is not genocide in the face of the evidence that the u. N. Has presented what was going through your mind. Well i was very sad because we worked very hard for armstrong suchi to be released to be allowed to participate in political life in burma we thought that she would be a leader on human rights and democracy that she would free our Political Prisoners and that she would do or best to keep the army in check and then of things went wrong as they have in the military offenses like this that she would speak out and she would use her moral capital with the burmese people in Ash Community to try to prevent atrocities and as we all know she stayed silent shes refused or were use the word. And she is basically apologize even alibis for the military and then she stood up in court yesterday and pretended that firm of military Justice System would hope people accountable which you know theres a lot i she didnt use the word ring yet she failed to mention the Sexual Violence and rape that happened and she basically came across as a diminished and shallow figure who actually was trembling at times because im not so sure shes ever heard this full and complete account in her presence because she has been surrounded by yes people and sycophants and shes been in power you cure when is this the way you say it that perhaps the full extent of this was unknown to Aung San Suu Kyi or are we seeing someone he had defending her country theres an election coming next year some of the actions against the rohingya played very well with the burmese people. And shes shes a nationalist defending the very country that she represents is that how you see it. Thank you very much one woman here. In my view is shes not defending the country because the country never been the threat like a external power or anyone but the more importantly what shes doing is she is defending the mud a mosque my divergent had agenda. The criminals so shes putting all her weight power to the to defend those general because if only one goal is to remain into the power party to get into power and on the other hand inside burma what hes doing now is use now using populism cut and promoting you know that muslims are threatening the nation interest so she had to defend that so i mean shes now putting the whole Muslim Population in burma in a very great danger this is where our extreme concern well lets be clear q this is what she says now she says that she concedes that there may be disproportionate force used by the military but she is establishing this and setting this up as a security operation it is about sovereignty shes talked about counterterrorism and yes she says that civilians in the area may get caught up in this but crudely this is a military operation in her mind. So the key point here is a military operation ok and theyre just trying to change the narrative here is the security operation or there is operation which is totally false let me tell you why before our organization has been monitoring on rohingya and russia france a long time now i mean we can see we can tell you that way before the violence happened in a kind state the military operation have in iraq and stayed there couple of few months. We noticed that Community Meetings in Rakhine State in many more astras has been conducted by the ultra nationalists and also the very controversial figure Buddhist Monk we are to blame is bin laden hes visited multiple crippling state and which is triggered our attention why he has been traveling that much to to refind state and also there is also incidences of them. Must covering with some black mask people they are committing murders murders and killing people and burmese government without any evidence that they are complaining they are claiming that there are for actually no one has any evidence to claim that who is the with these people and they are also we checked that we also follow the patterns what we find is these other there are some cases there overall bring cases also happen and some up family district in 7 there are many reason behind that these black mass murderers and you know the this is not just arthur they are just blaming there in a way that they exaggerated the image of us as a bigger arms group which is not totally false and then before a few weeks had a couple of weeks i mean i mean it is nearly a month the large number of military has been relocated to Rakhine State and one of the significant point here is the army which is relocated a very notorious battalion but alan 33 and 99 and they have been real. Get it were kind of said before anything happened any gunfire anything happened so that means this is a very clear evidence that this is a. Genocide and merely wanted. To just just hold it just hold that thought just hold the thoughts i want to come back to you but i do wonder what you raise there that question that in your mind this is a very clear case of genocide i want to go to pray apply on that because pray you are an International Lawyer and one of the things that. You said very clearly is that there is no intent of genocide that would intent is really critical here because to prove genocide you need to prove the intent to carry that out dont you yes absolutely but in fact if i would meet well the one thing i am we all are going to back chappel little bit because at this point the syrians right now im really not about establishing beyond a doubt that genocide you know is not at this point its really a preliminary stage which in order for the court to issue one upon protective measures quote merely has to be satisfied that there is a possibility that it was ability of genocide having been committed so you know its. Watching. Today and watching the bottom our teams arguments yesterday i mean. I think its been a bit of all or each on their part where the have gone to the extent of absolute denial and they basically said you know there was all specific intent for genocide at this point the court does not meet all that but essentially just needs to or not appreciate the fact and to have the idea that right is the possibility of these rights being violated and that the sufficient at the state will let lets establish what were talking about when we talk about genocide now this is from 948 that the definition of genocide under. Un convention the deliberate and systematic destruction in whole or in part of an ethnic racial religious or National Group from what you have seen is a 444 page report from the un that line by line talks about ripe and torture and mass killings doesnt meet that 948 definition based on the evidence that you have seen the reports from the u. N. And what weve heard thus far and on indications to be yes if you look at the fact winding Mission Report and specialist democratic 1000 a part of the muppets essentially that was set in fact it was and you know all sort of hamas indicators of genocide and the she only said that there is an insurance that can be made of genocide so you know its not the mission is whether you dont buy out or are not and again thats the reason why it is that you know that is a question that is not a comma in the middle and it is a put it donations for brought out and there have been other cases of course in recent memory where allegations of genocide have been put most notably you could pose near you look at rwanda when you look and hear at what is happening in may in ma how does that compare to other crisis. Well the gambia defense legal team put into evidence today a statement by the commander in chief of the Burmese Military men on lying where he talked especially about a final solution he said were going to solve the bengali problem once and for all magali referring here to the region because they dont hollering and they deny they even exist and he said that before the august 25 offensive. That led to all this violence and the. Playing of 750000 people to bangladesh and many more statements like this and we have we have the contemporaneous statements from suchi on our web site calling the allegations of rape fake rape calling the allegations of abuse as. Fast news fake news. So you know it is many people said this is the worst exodus since around 1904 these are some of the worst crimes weve seen last 2 decades i dont want to compare them directly because every situation is different and the evidence in each case is different but. The Fact Finding Mission did lay out these hallmarks of genocide and gambian legal the Yemeni Defense team started and lawyers. Went through them step by step today and made a very convincing and persuasive case of. On the facts its very hard to see. Rather than what i expect is that members are going to make regrease arguments to try to convince the judge is that the case should be a recruitment 1st place to win here is some defense if you like ive heard from others when it comes to our son sujan it goes like this she is not in fact of the leader of the country she might be the de facto leader but not in fact she doesnt have control of the military under the constitution that she was limited in what she could do thats why she didnt speak out thats why she was unable to stop what was happening do you buy those arguments look what he did or let me tell you that into those in 15 election she asked her muslim members not to stand them in the election and that clearly give the military a green light that she will never stand up for the muslim so this is after 2015 election what military has to read from her is did they can go further with their with their strategy to eliminate the Ranger Community from the north and state and they did it and let you see that in throughout all these years since she says 2012 you can see until today she never said a single word. To condemn the whats going on or to stop what is human violations going on in here in Northern Ireland but shes there with the fight with the military and shes denying and look genocide is not a 111 you know one time and something happened not know this is continuously happening something in many years if you go back to 978 and from that time and 99 you wonder things situation in syria and restrictions started from 9091 and doing just are not allowed to travel from one village to another so these other happening since long ago and shes are well aware of this and she did night and not only did they not that she is siding with the military now and this is clear evidence that she is not defending the genocide the generals in the national court. Lets turn to the International Community just to cure the this has been something that has unfolded for a long time there always been ethnic tensions inside me and mar and there have been arranged of conflicts among various ethnic groups inside me and barbara when it comes to the Rohingya Priya is the International Community guilty as well culpable here in turning away not applying the pressure not caring effectively enough to do anything i think i mean that is not good but to be honest i dont see the fact that this. Is an issue that eventually eventually though yes its been brought by the gambia but there have been many times when other leaders have excused what has been happening excused on sun should she not apply directly a person when direct pressure could have been applied. Absolutely and i think you know the International Community does need to sort of get its act together and step up and be more forceful in pushing back in dealing with the narrative which was very clearly put forward yesterday by all accounts at least such a court of justice essentially saying you know these are all terrorist activities there is are under insurgency our effort ongoing and she was a great means to really detail the burmese language portion of Clearance Operations and how that is that he refers to happen sergeant and i think you know as long as there is a dollar and so that argument that is definitely problematic and i think that this is you know the logical game of bridge argument heat where you have civilians what altitude and civilians were put at risk as you know the gambia uncle said yesterday during the hearings nobody is refuting the right of the states to defend itself in that situation but in our limited doms of what you can do civilians are to be protected and that does not give potlatch to states to the nut operation such as this which doesnt that is nearly a 1000000 civilians so you know if you are undeniable facts on the ground as well and yes absolutely agree states do need to step up on it more in this if the gambia abstemious up and has put forward all out stronger support the International Court of justice on behalf of the International Unity as well i would say as well as on behalf of itself given that it is a signatory to the Genocide Convention so i think you finally have you know accused that are beginning to step up and as well and one would hope that the elections such as this as well as the for the International Court which has just been given the green lighting of em up as well as. Argentina are all going to sort of build the fresh up on steps as well do you not do or essentially talk now tomorrow with the states that have good relations or not and what some are question. Ill bring you in on this is well the United States is now applying sanctions to some of the the military leadership. But you would expect more wouldnt do more than just applying sanctions to particular individuals more than just pushing back against the narrative as priya has said here but what would you expect from the International Community directly in this case to sanction or cinci me and the but also to provide protection and security guarantees food rohingya to be able to return if they wish look in august to the 17 we saw. Math crime being committed and yet the Security Council the United Nations did not meet we have not had a resolution of this at the Security Council we have had a hard time even having informal meetings at the Security Council you know after rwanda the world said never again which we have said many many time it happened again and they took no action we have diplomats inside burma really conducting business as usual i imagine after the hutu massacre the tutsis are on the government said well theres a problem a Certain Community but we still have to deal with the leadership in the in the country and were going to send trade missions were going to send a mission then were going to talk about development another part of the country were going to were going to work with them slowly because you know the situation is really difficult for those who are to have to be really careful not to make the situation worse then thats exactly what happened in march and 17 its really been shocking how little the world has done and you know im heartened by gambia taking the step in the netherlands canada expressed some interest in joining but where are all these countries that always talked about human rights in burma for the last decade why havent they joined the case why arent they knocking on the door here to counsel every day i believe you know why arent they embargoing the country in a way that would hurt the military warranting you know why are sanctions by the u. S. Just issued this week you know why werent they issued a year ago 18 months ago and actually. Why werent they issued before our one why was not under 40 reparenting because reese are the kind of around 212 tries this out into the 16 you know we are to see this coming and actually we can still see it coming and we have weve had some you know quiet in the last 18 months in terms of military operations there and in burma but this would happen again the military really clear that their goal is the press every rethink our country so where does this leave the Rohingya Yoram are we looking at the the the the refugee camps the crowded into now the biggest in the world the size of small cities middle sized cities in some cases. Where does it leave the rohingya who will take refugees whats the potential for them to be able to return given the situation inside me about right now and what more can the International Community do to to protect them and to provide safe haven one of the next here is the see the what burmese government has done is now the they put a one very big obstacle which is nationality verification cut it on a deeper range or has to buy that bridge has to agree with it and that what does that mean is that means doing just the foreigners were in just the know exist there only bengalis and they have to sign that car and if the holder of the scott have to apply as a foreigner whatever they want to travel they have to fill out a form number 4 and they have to apply for it so they they dont they will never go blue back to in this condition because they own their belongs to discipline the other people the native people of that land how could they be treated as a foreigner is impossible and the 2nd thing is there is no security for the for the people who return because you see that there is still nobody want to return to the open prison that is the important thing and there is no health care there is no education theres no employment look people until today they have been restricted you see that there are 3 cases within this month within this couple of months in iraq where the town is division that many 6 people one. 24 people 22 people under 34 people that Global People are going to has been a skipping to from burma to go to malaysia talent and theyve been stuck in tire in burma and theyve been now put into the jail you know the jail term in the court isnt really a legal remedy here they could be given a very light punishment but they are giving 2 years hard labor jail so that means the burmese authorities now want to give them this in the in the open prison like a health and those who are running away theyve been punished severely but there is there isnt any hope or any possibility to return these people to burma and your trick is if the final word here is brought to priya prayers its been said as well that the International Court of justice and the instructor community is on trial here as well in the hague where does it go to from here. Well you know as as the council of 4 or the gambia said very clearly sort of putting the court on the spot that the idea of the war in iraq and that is very crucial i mean at this point for these delusional measures there trishul that i feel young react has meant that it would be quite shocking its actually gotten just as didnt a positive order but in terms of the next steps you know this is really the 1st step of what is a very long and unfortunately quite tedious and link before sex so after this there will be a stevies of those steps within the framework of the court at least the hearings and you know that is theres a chance that the kids may not make it right that stage so thats something that i think it also being realistic about what this is about and what its can do as well and just to you know draw on the point of reparations i have also lost a feeling that at the end of this is full seat while and she dignified back to you should with full Citizenship Rights but again i mean we have to see how the case moves ahead and you know what a cheer goes with things thank you all for joining us on the program tonight thanks to our guests brad adams to win and premier pola nice to speak to you and thank you so much for watching as well you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter handle is at age 8 inside story of a stand read the whole thing by finance. Well theres lots of you out on the streets protesting whether on line you feel the weight of the system going to walk through each and every love will or layer further and further into the jail or if you join us on say retention has to start from day one whether again youre in detention or youre incarcerated this is a dialogue everyone has a voice ok there are studies that support the rush coverage will be varying accounts but i want to give people the reason for joining the global conversation amount is iraq from the aljazeera london Brokaw Center to special guests in conversation when your government is going after what do you do on trumped its uninterrupted we have a deep space and in this teligent service but whatever they want to whoever they want whenever they want the trees color is nice lowkey black people for as long as weve been fighting back have been labeled as terrorist studio to be unscripted on al jazeera. 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